php-general Digest 21 Oct 2008 18:32:56 -0000 Issue 5748
php-general Digest 21 Oct 2008 18:32:56 - Issue 5748 Topics (messages 282173 through 282209): Re: Mass email 282173 by: Richard Heyes Re: Remote Developer Wanted 282174 by: Brennon Bortz 282183 by: Daniel Brown 282184 by: Jay Moore 282186 by: Daniel Brown 282188 by: Rene Veerman 282191 by: Robert Cummings 282192 by: Daniel Brown 282193 by: Jay Moore 282194 by: Jay Moore 282196 by: Jochem Maas 282197 by: Jochem Maas 282199 by: Daniel Brown 282201 by: Jochem Maas 282208 by: Nitsan Bin-Nun Re: Securing AJAX requests with PHP? 282175 by: Yeti 282200 by: Eric Butera Re: Accessibility problem with delegates 282176 by: Jochem Maas Re: what's the difference in the following code? 282177 by: Yeti 282180 by: Jochem Maas 282181 by: tedd Politics 282178 by: Amy 282179 by: Chrome 282189 by: Jim Lucas 282190 by: Robert Cummings 282195 by: Nathan Rixham 282198 by: Wolf 282202 by: Jochem Maas Re: How to Execute Exe File from PHP 282182 by: Alice Wei 282203 by: Paulo Sousa table and class 282185 by: Alain Roger 282187 by: Nathan Rixham display_errors in DEV 282204 by: ceo.l-i-e.com 282206 by: Robert Cummings 282207 by: Eric Butera 282209 by: Boyd, Todd M. ZendOptimizer + APC 282205 by: Jochem Maas Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To post to the list, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ---BeginMessage--- I have a client who wants to send out mass emails to 37,000+ opt-in members (i.e., not spam). Any suggestions as to the best way to do this? Outsource it. -- Richard Heyes HTML5 Graphing for FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari: http://www.rgraph.org ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Actually, speaking as someone now living in the UK, your low end is LESS than minimum wage here. Rather insulting, if you ask me... Brennon Bortz -Original Message- From: Jochem Maas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:32 AM To: Andy Dyble Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted Andy Dyble schreef: Hi I am looking for a remote developer for small add hoc jobs. Usually only a few hours at a time. Basic stuff, listing data from SQL and text files. Mainly work on existing systems. personally I'd run in the other direction based on that description, I mean who decides what's simple, how long something should take, etc. my experience of working on 'existing systems' is usually akin to wading neckdeep through crap you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. really well thought out, well written code usually has competent people working on it already ... code that stinks generally gets no attention because nobody wants to work on/with it which is people end up scouring the net looking for someone desperate enough to take a shot at it. $10-$15 per hour depending on location. Im sure there is an indian outsourcing solution to fit your needs, your from the UK and quoting dollars ... your low-end is just over 5 pound sterling an hour, I can flip burgers at Macdonalds for more. there are plenty of market places on the net where tenders can be placed for this kind of thing. just so you know ... at lot of the regular people doling out free advice on this list command somewhere in the region of 8 to 10 times what your willing to pay ... if not more. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:26 AM, Brennon Bortz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, speaking as someone now living in the UK, your low end is LESS than minimum wage here. Rather insulting, if you ask me... Simple advice then: delete the message and don't reply. -- /Daniel P. Brown http://www.parasane.net/ [New Look] [EMAIL PROTECTED] || [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:26 AM, Brennon Bortz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, speaking as someone now living in the UK, your low end is LESS than minimum wage here. Rather insulting, if you ask me... Simple advice then: delete the message and don't reply. Striker Surely you can't be serious. /Striker ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Jay Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Striker Surely you can't be serious. /Striker I am serious. And don't call me Shirley. -- /Daniel P. Brown http://www.parasane.net/ [New Look] [EMAIL PROTECTED] || [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:26
[PHP] Accessibility problem with delegates
Hi Everyone, I have a class with some callback functions and a class that should call them. The class with the callback functions initializes the array with the callbacks and hands it down to the other class that should call them. PHP however forces the callback functions to be public, so the other class can call them. This seems rather strange as the callback functions have no meaning when invoked arbitrarily. So I was wondering whether I am doing something wrong. Could someone comment? Regards, Dave -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Mass email
I have a client who wants to send out mass emails to 37,000+ opt-in members (i.e., not spam). Any suggestions as to the best way to do this? Outsource it. -- Richard Heyes HTML5 Graphing for FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari: http://www.rgraph.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
Actually, speaking as someone now living in the UK, your low end is LESS than minimum wage here. Rather insulting, if you ask me... Brennon Bortz -Original Message- From: Jochem Maas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:32 AM To: Andy Dyble Cc: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted Andy Dyble schreef: Hi I am looking for a remote developer for small add hoc jobs. Usually only a few hours at a time. Basic stuff, listing data from SQL and text files. Mainly work on existing systems. personally I'd run in the other direction based on that description, I mean who decides what's simple, how long something should take, etc. my experience of working on 'existing systems' is usually akin to wading neckdeep through crap you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. really well thought out, well written code usually has competent people working on it already ... code that stinks generally gets no attention because nobody wants to work on/with it which is people end up scouring the net looking for someone desperate enough to take a shot at it. $10-$15 per hour depending on location. Im sure there is an indian outsourcing solution to fit your needs, your from the UK and quoting dollars ... your low-end is just over 5 pound sterling an hour, I can flip burgers at Macdonalds for more. there are plenty of market places on the net where tenders can be placed for this kind of thing. just so you know ... at lot of the regular people doling out free advice on this list command somewhere in the region of 8 to 10 times what your willing to pay ... if not more. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Securing AJAX requests with PHP?
True, but then my permission / auth / workflow schema defines all that. the user won't like have that permission, the request will be logged and nothing is ever deleted from the app in any case since I only allow soft (record level flag ) deletes to ensure data integrity I agree with Bastien here. If you can't trust your authorized users then don't authorize them to delete entries. I would also recommend some kind of access control to lower the risk of a complete data loss. Use HTTPS to prevent man in the middle attacks. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Accessibility problem with delegates
Dave Kok schreef: Hi Everyone, I have a class with some callback functions and a class that should call them. The class with the callback functions initializes the array with the callbacks and hands it down to the other class that should call them. PHP however forces the callback functions to be public, so the other class can call them. This seems rather strange as the callback functions have no meaning when invoked arbitrarily. So I was wondering whether I am doing something wrong. Could someone comment? callbacks run from the global scope so whatever is called must be available i.e. public in the case of methods. so your not doing anything wrong. if the methods are not static you might consider making the ctor of the 'callback class' private so that only the class itself can create an instance of itself ... which it then does when creating the callback definitions that it passes to the class using the callbacks ... so the second class then has an object on which it can call the relevant functions but no other code is able to create an instance of the callback class and thereby screw with the functions designed only to be used in the callback situation. but that's all probably overkill ... make them public, document their usage, done. Regards, Dave -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] what's the difference in the following code?
OP = original poster (in this case I guess) http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/OP So it's all about making code readable and probably easier to maintain (even people unfamiliar with the script). Doesn't that render the ternary operator IF-statement unnecessary? Have I been totally wrong using it in countless scripts of mine (always thought it's a neat way to do if )? Somebody please tell me that I do not have to rewrite my code base now, since I care about security. Btw. PHP's ternary inconsistency here .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%3F:#Inconsistency_of_implementations And how about this .. switch(isset($_GET['search'])) { case true: $search = $_GET['search']; break 1; default: $search = ''; } -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Politics
representations emphasizing leksr matching thirds painfully wakesleep ekswiezeezeewie accompanied -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Politics
-Original Message- From: Amy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 October 2008 11:58 To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP] Politics representations emphasizing leksr matching thirds painfully wakesleep ekswiezeezeewie accompanied Have you tried restarting Apache? :) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] what's the difference in the following code?
tedd schreef: At 6:37 AM -0700 10/20/08, Lamp Lists wrote: - Original Message From: tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lamp Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED]; php-general@lists.php.net Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 8:25:50 AM Subject: Re: [PHP] what's the difference in the following code? At 10:58 AM -0700 10/17/08, Lamp Lists wrote: I'm reading Essential PHP Security by Chris Shiflett. on the very beginning, page 5 6, if I got it correct, he said this is not good: NO, you did not get it correct. how it's so obvious? I can't see it either? -ll Re-read those paragraphs. He was not telling you that one way was better than the other. He WAS saying that one way showed the tainted variable more obvious than the other -- that's all. I hate it when people take things out of context and misquote others. Chris did not say that one way was better, or different, than the other. But rather he used two sets of code to illustrate a point. seems to me the point being illustrates is not at all objective in it's premise. I find the the ternary syntax easier to read/grok than the 3 liner. in both cases you need to understand the 'if' context to see when the variable is tainted. all that can be said is that one way is more obvious that the other to *Chris*, which doesn't do anybody but Chris much good ... obviously it's a rather silly point ... the useful parts of Chris' work revolve around where he explains *how* to validate/cleanse the tainted value ... extracting the goodness is a matter of evaluating and possibly disregarding statements/information which are secondary and/or irrelevant. Again, re-read those paragraphs. Cheers, tedd -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] what's the difference in the following code?
At 2:44 AM -0700 10/21/08, Yeti wrote: Somebody please tell me that I do not have to rewrite my code base now, since I care about security. You do not have to rewrite your code because you use ternary operators! Nobody said that. Again, Chris was not saying that it was the use of the operator that was a security issue, but rather its use could obscure the fact that the operator, as in the case he provided, could produce a tainted variable. Perhaps I've confused what Chris tried to say -- so, I suggest that everyone who is interested in arguing this point further buy Chris' book and read it for themselves. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] How to Execute Exe File from PHP
Hi, Guys: Sorry about bothering everyone about this problem. It seems strange that now I try to create some arguments after what I tried to execute, it does not give me a thing. I get no error messages. No output file, and only a blank screen when I put the following snippet into the PHP file. $a= shell_exec(./test.exe -m$market -d$length); echo $a; What is odd is, I tired doing this by using a dos command prompt, it works entirely. Could anyone please give me a hint on what problem I am having now? Thanks for the heads up. Alice CC: php-general@lists.php.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:51:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [PHP] How to Execute Exe File from PHP On 20 Oct 2008, at 21:47, Alice Wei wrote: Has anyone tried to execute an .exe file from PHP? I am currently stuck in a situation where I cannot execute the script, and all I am getting is a blank screen. This is my code snippet used to execute the file: //execute program $a = @shell_exec(C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\test/test.exe); echo $a; The program above is supposed to generate a file, so I can read from it. I have previously set up a file, and I have no problems with reading the file. Can anyone please help me with the possible command to execute the script? I tried CURL too, but it does not seem to be working either. 1) Remove the @ before the function call, it's hiding the error message! 2) \ needs to be escaped within double quotes, try replacing each one with \\ 3) Why are you mixing \'s and /'s? Dunno whether it matters, but it's definitely better to stick to one or the other. 4) There is no 4! -Stut -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php _ Use Messenger to talk to your IM friends, even those on Yahoo! http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=7adb59de-a857-45ba-81cc-685ee3e858fe
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:26 AM, Brennon Bortz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, speaking as someone now living in the UK, your low end is LESS than minimum wage here. Rather insulting, if you ask me... Simple advice then: delete the message and don't reply. -- /Daniel P. Brown http://www.parasane.net/ [New Look] [EMAIL PROTECTED] || [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:26 AM, Brennon Bortz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, speaking as someone now living in the UK, your low end is LESS than minimum wage here. Rather insulting, if you ask me... Simple advice then: delete the message and don't reply. Striker Surely you can't be serious. /Striker -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] table and class
Hi, in my web application (as quite all web applications) i have a lot of tables. I mean by table the table tag with for sure some data displayed in it from SQL requests. To not have to write the whole code every time i was thinking to make a class that : - will manage the whole design (color, images, width, height of cells,...) - will manage the paging (to limit the data transfer from DB server to client browser) - will manage the sorting and search (classic and advanced) of data based on some online built query (user should be able to do something like field1 = value 1 OR field 1 = value2 AND field4 = a) therefore i would like to know if to encapsulate everything in PHP classes (integrating javascript and css) will be the best approach or not ? because i would like to keep it as simple as possible in order to redistribute later this package. or should i mix javascript classes and PHP classes ? thx. -- Alain Windows XP SP3 PostgreSQL 8.2.4 / MS SQL server 2005 Apache 2.2.4 PHP 5.2.4 C# 2005-2008
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Jay Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Striker Surely you can't be serious. /Striker I am serious. And don't call me Shirley. -- /Daniel P. Brown http://www.parasane.net/ [New Look] [EMAIL PROTECTED] || [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: table and class
Alain Roger wrote: Hi, in my web application (as quite all web applications) i have a lot of tables. I mean by table the table tag with for sure some data displayed in it from SQL requests. To not have to write the whole code every time i was thinking to make a class that : - will manage the whole design (color, images, width, height of cells,...) - will manage the paging (to limit the data transfer from DB server to client browser) - will manage the sorting and search (classic and advanced) of data based on some online built query (user should be able to do something like field1 = value 1 OR field 1 = value2 AND field4 = a) therefore i would like to know if to encapsulate everything in PHP classes (integrating javascript and css) will be the best approach or not ? because i would like to keep it as simple as possible in order to redistribute later this package. or should i mix javascript classes and PHP classes ? thx. I'd suggest two classes; one(php) which controls the data and outputting it as a table, the other (clientside) which controls the display of the table. Everything directly relating to CSS should be in CSS with an optional 3rd php class/app for generating or controlling the css. Maybe something like YUI Tables would help you in your quest. (dare I say it (as always) - Flex 3 is great for this kind of thing..) Regards -- nathan ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) { Senior Web Developer php + java + flex + xmpp + xml + ecmascript web development edinburgh | http://kraya.co.uk/ } -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:26 AM, Brennon Bortz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, speaking as someone now living in the UK, your low end is LESS than minimum wage here. Rather insulting, if you ask me... Simple advice then: delete the message and don't reply. Andy deserves to know his current offer is kinda insulting :D Consider plz that if a job is easy, i'd be done sooner. So i'd make even less.. The offer really only is fair to a noob php-er ;-) So you might get a 15 year old to do it, if its an easy of a job with a technical director giving him coding guidelines.. They might be happy with the $15/h. A talented 17 year old would want $20 at least, or he aint talented :) If you plan to do many of these type of tasks, and will do them for years to come, it might be cheaper to have a $50/h programmer take a look at building something re-usable, with an interface for non-techies to describe your forms and databases. With something re-usable, if properly written and self-documented, you have a more solid base for your business operations, and can distribute improvements to all your clients when they become available. I've gotta add that there might be many hours involved depending on the complexity of the data and ways of displaying it. I guess you could start with the types of operations that happen a lot, grouped by similarity. Give us a few examples and i can tell you if it's possible to create something re-usable in a short time.. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Politics
Chrome wrote: -Original Message- From: Amy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 October 2008 11:58 To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP] Politics representations emphasizing leksr matching thirds painfully wakesleep ekswiezeezeewie accompanied Have you tried restarting Apache? :) no, no, no, she said painfully, she must be using IIS... :) Try upgrading all your drivers and then restarting... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Jim Lucas Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V by William Shakespeare -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Politics
On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 08:01 -0700, Jim Lucas wrote: Chrome wrote: -Original Message- From: Amy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 October 2008 11:58 To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP] Politics representations emphasizing leksr matching thirds painfully wakesleep ekswiezeezeewie accompanied Have you tried restarting Apache? :) no, no, no, she said painfully, she must be using IIS... :) Try upgrading all your drivers and then restarting... Hmmm, I'm not so sure. I think it's a php.ini problem where register_globals=on is required to make the code work. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 10:23 -0400, Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Jay Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Striker Surely you can't be serious. /Striker I am serious. And don't call me Shirley. You must be new around here... Shirley! :D Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must be new around here... Shirley! Yes, brand new. This is only my second post --- and only the third email I've ever sent in my life. How do you PHP? ;-P -- /Daniel P. Brown http://www.parasane.net/ [New Look] [EMAIL PROTECTED] || [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must be new around here... Shirley! Yes, brand new. This is only my second post --- and only the third email I've ever sent in my life. How do you PHP? ;-P Standing up. *stang* (look it up) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
Jay Moore wrote: Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must be new around here... Shirley! Yes, brand new. This is only my second post --- and only the third email I've ever sent in my life. How do you PHP? ;-P Standing up. *stang* (look it up) Actually, moron, it's called a sting; not a stang. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Sting-%28percussion%29 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Politics
Robert Cummings wrote: On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 08:01 -0700, Jim Lucas wrote: Chrome wrote: -Original Message- From: Amy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 October 2008 11:58 To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP] Politics representations emphasizing leksr matching thirds painfully wakesleep ekswiezeezeewie accompanied Have you tried restarting Apache? :) no, no, no, she said painfully, she must be using IIS... :) Try upgrading all your drivers and then restarting... Hmmm, I'm not so sure. I think it's a php.ini problem where register_globals=on is required to make the code work. Cheers, Rob. I think they need a new dictionary / word list or at least some form of lexicographic analysis. Oh yeah and a point. -- nathan ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) { Senior Web Developer php + java + flex + xmpp + xml + ecmascript web development edinburgh | http://kraya.co.uk/ } -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
Daniel Brown schreef: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:26 AM, Brennon Bortz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, speaking as someone now living in the UK, your low end is LESS than minimum wage here. Rather insulting, if you ask me... Simple advice then: delete the message and don't reply. and rob myself of the sport? your no fun since your married Shirley ;-) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
Jay Moore schreef: Jay Moore wrote: Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must be new around here... Shirley! Yes, brand new. This is only my second post --- and only the third email I've ever sent in my life. How do you PHP? ;-P Standing up. *stang* (look it up) Actually, moron, it's called a sting; not a stang. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Sting-%28percussion%29 I love the way you talk down to yourself :-P you want one of these (more fun with the sound on): http://instantrimshot.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Politics
Nathan Rixham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 08:01 -0700, Jim Lucas wrote: Chrome wrote: -Original Message- From: Amy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 October 2008 11:58 To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP] Politics representations emphasizing leksr matching thirds painfully wakesleep ekswiezeezeewie accompanied Have you tried restarting Apache? :) no, no, no, she said painfully, she must be using IIS... :) Try upgrading all your drivers and then restarting... Hmmm, I'm not so sure. I think it's a php.ini problem where register_globals=on is required to make the code work. I think they need a new dictionary / word list or at least some form of lexicographic analysis. Oh yeah and a point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2RYhNhBdwfeature=related And... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kvgD_Mv-M :) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and rob myself of the sport? your no fun since your married Shirley ;-) Coincidentally, that's exactly what my wife says. -- /Daniel P. Brown http://www.parasane.net/ [New Look] [EMAIL PROTECTED] || [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Securing AJAX requests with PHP?
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:12 AM, Yeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True, but then my permission / auth / workflow schema defines all that. the user won't like have that permission, the request will be logged and nothing is ever deleted from the app in any case since I only allow soft (record level flag ) deletes to ensure data integrity I agree with Bastien here. If you can't trust your authorized users then don't authorize them to delete entries. I would also recommend some kind of access control to lower the risk of a complete data loss. Use HTTPS to prevent man in the middle attacks. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php That is a bit overkill going https for everything. If you just make ajax requests behave the same way as a normal direct hit, you'll be fine. One of the problems with ajax stuff is that sometimes we forget to validate each request validating the user making the request and the action they're performing. It's quite easy to just assume the request hasn't been changed at all since it is buried behind code. Everyone's guilty of this at one point or another. Just look at this google docs example. [1] I'd recommend reading up on the concepts of authentication and authorization. Authentication just makes sure you're logged in. Authorization makes sure you can perform a specific action. Once you have that you'll be able to answer the original question. Of course you can also go into other types of things like creating signatures for each request and tokens (which should be done), but start at the beginning and work at it. I'd also recommend installing something like httplive headers or firebug just to get an idea of what is going over the wire. It might make things more obvious. [1] http://xs-sniper.com/blog/2007/09/28/all-your-google-docs-are-belong-to-us/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
Daniel Brown schreef: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and rob myself of the sport? your no fun since your married Shirley ;-) Coincidentally, that's exactly what my wife says. your wife calls you Shirley? your definitely doing *something* wrong ... maybe take off the dress. :-P -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Politics
Amy schreef: representations emphasizing leksr matching thirds painfully wakesleep ekswiezeezeewie accompanied incidently. the word politics ... seemingly a combination of 'poli' (aka many) and 'tics' (aka 'bloodsucking wotsits') ... all too apt. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] How to Execute Exe File from PHP
Hi Alice First, make sure about the value on $market and $length. Yeah, it's simple. echo $market; echo $length; $a= shell_exec(./test.exe -m$market -d$length); echo $a; Second: http://www.chipmunkninja.com/Program-Execution-in-PHP:-exec-m@@; A good explanation to use external commands (thanks chip!) Third: give us more information: PHP version, OS. Maybe this time can be useless, but important for future questions. (sorry about my poor english) 2008/10/21 Alice Wei [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Guys: Sorry about bothering everyone about this problem. It seems strange that now I try to create some arguments after what I tried to execute, it does not give me a thing. I get no error messages. No output file, and only a blank screen when I put the following snippet into the PHP file. $a= shell_exec(./test.exe -m$market -d$length); echo $a; What is odd is, I tired doing this by using a dos command prompt, it works entirely. Could anyone please give me a hint on what problem I am having now? Thanks for the heads up. Alice CC: php-general@lists.php.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:51:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [PHP] How to Execute Exe File from PHP On 20 Oct 2008, at 21:47, Alice Wei wrote: Has anyone tried to execute an .exe file from PHP? I am currently stuck in a situation where I cannot execute the script, and all I am getting is a blank screen. This is my code snippet used to execute the file: //execute program $a = @shell_exec(C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\test/test.exe); echo $a; The program above is supposed to generate a file, so I can read from it. I have previously set up a file, and I have no problems with reading the file. Can anyone please help me with the possible command to execute the script? I tried CURL too, but it does not seem to be working either. 1) Remove the @ before the function call, it's hiding the error message! 2) \ needs to be escaped within double quotes, try replacing each one with \\ 3) Why are you mixing \'s and /'s? Dunno whether it matters, but it's definitely better to stick to one or the other. 4) There is no 4! -Stut -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php _ Use Messenger to talk to your IM friends, even those on Yahoo! http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=7adb59de-a857-45ba-81cc-685ee3e858fe
[PHP] display_errors in DEV
Until recently, I've thought that display_errors in DEV was good But as soon as you move into Ajax Web 2.0 world, it really doesn't cut it. You'll never see the E_NOTICE and E_WARNING errors for Ajax, probably, and the whole thing might just work but you'll have plenty of buggy code. I think it's time for the PHP team to recommend log_errors across the board. What do you think? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] ZendOptimizer + APC
anyone know whether running ZendOptimizer + APC simultaneously still causes allsorts of problems ... I know it did in the past but I can't find any very recent stuff about the issues online. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] display_errors in DEV
On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 16:33 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Until recently, I've thought that display_errors in DEV was good But as soon as you move into Ajax Web 2.0 world, it really doesn't cut it. You'll never see the E_NOTICE and E_WARNING errors for Ajax, probably, and the whole thing might just work but you'll have plenty of buggy code. I think it's time for the PHP team to recommend log_errors across the board. What do you think? Have a simple switch for ajax requests so errors to go into a file... or send the errors along as part of the ajax request and have the ajax code popup a warning that is readable. Or whatever :) Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] display_errors in DEV
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Until recently, I've thought that display_errors in DEV was good But as soon as you move into Ajax Web 2.0 world, it really doesn't cut it. You'll never see the E_NOTICE and E_WARNING errors for Ajax, probably, and the whole thing might just work but you'll have plenty of buggy code. I think it's time for the PHP team to recommend log_errors across the board. What do you think? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php This has bit me in the bum several times. What I do though is put a try catch around my json response parsing and if something goes wrong then I show some error to the user. Then with firebug I can see the raw php error. So I guess I don't care either way since I'm covered. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Remote Developer Wanted
I'm 16 years old and have a steady income for the last 3 month as PHP developer company in Israel which pays me almost doubled then your high rate (if you convert it from Israeli Shequl to $). I wouldn't work for less than 20$ per hour - that's for sure. I don't think your will find a good programmer outside India in those rates. Although on the other hand I know teenagers in Israel who would like to take this project ;) Wishing you luck in the journey after your desired 15$ programmer, Nitsan On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Rene Veerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:26 AM, Brennon Bortz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, speaking as someone now living in the UK, your low end is LESS than minimum wage here. Rather insulting, if you ask me... Simple advice then: delete the message and don't reply. Andy deserves to know his current offer is kinda insulting :D Consider plz that if a job is easy, i'd be done sooner. So i'd make even less.. The offer really only is fair to a noob php-er ;-) So you might get a 15 year old to do it, if its an easy of a job with a technical director giving him coding guidelines.. They might be happy with the $15/h. A talented 17 year old would want $20 at least, or he aint talented :) If you plan to do many of these type of tasks, and will do them for years to come, it might be cheaper to have a $50/h programmer take a look at building something re-usable, with an interface for non-techies to describe your forms and databases. With something re-usable, if properly written and self-documented, you have a more solid base for your business operations, and can distribute improvements to all your clients when they become available. I've gotta add that there might be many hours involved depending on the complexity of the data and ways of displaying it. I guess you could start with the types of operations that happen a lot, grouped by similarity. Give us a few examples and i can tell you if it's possible to create something re-usable in a short time.. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] display_errors in DEV
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:33 AM To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP] display_errors in DEV Until recently, I've thought that display_errors in DEV was good But as soon as you move into Ajax Web 2.0 world, it really doesn't cut it. You'll never see the E_NOTICE and E_WARNING errors for Ajax, probably, and the whole thing might just work but you'll have plenty of buggy code. I think it's time for the PHP team to recommend log_errors across the board. What do you think? Report via Javascript exceptions. If you're debugging with your browser (i.e., Web Developer plug-in for Firefox, or even the plain, built-in debuggers will do) you should be able to view the exception's message and maybe even a stack trace if you set it up right. Todd Boyd Web Programmer -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] class and inheritance
Hi, I'm trying to create a class that has as public members some other class object. for that i use almost the same syntax as under C# or C++. header class: ?php class CARMainHeader { // title of the main table header private $mTitle = null; // holds the height of the table header private $mHeight = null; // constructor public function __construct() { $this-mHeight = 15; $this-mTitle = Title; } // set the title of the main table public function SetTitle($name) { $this-mTitle = $name; } // return the title of the main table public function GetTitle() { return $this-mTitle; } // set the height of the header public function SetHeight($height) { $this-mHeight = $height; } // return the height of the header public function GetHeight() { return $this-mHeight; } } ? main class code : ?php include_once 'CARMainHeader.php'; class CARTable { // holds the main table header object public $mTableHeader = null; // store the amount of columns in table private $mColumnsCount = null; // constructor public function __construct() { $this-mTableHeader = new CARMainHeader(); } // rendering of table public function Render() { echo table; echo tr /; echo td class=''.$this-mTableHeader-; echo /td; echo td class=''; echo /td; echo /table; } } ? in the CARTable, i'm not able in the Render function to write $this-mTableHeader-GetTitle(); why ? -- Alain Windows XP SP3 PostgreSQL 8.2.4 / MS SQL server 2005 Apache 2.2.4 PHP 5.2.4 C# 2005-2008
[PHP] Re: class and inheritance
Alain Roger wrote: Hi, I'm trying to create a class that has as public members some other class object. for that i use almost the same syntax as under C# or C++. header class: ?php class CARMainHeader { // title of the main table header private $mTitle = null; // holds the height of the table header private $mHeight = null; // constructor public function __construct() { $this-mHeight = 15; $this-mTitle = Title; } // set the title of the main table public function SetTitle($name) { $this-mTitle = $name; } // return the title of the main table public function GetTitle() { return $this-mTitle; } // set the height of the header public function SetHeight($height) { $this-mHeight = $height; } // return the height of the header public function GetHeight() { return $this-mHeight; } } ? main class code : ?php include_once 'CARMainHeader.php'; class CARTable { // holds the main table header object public $mTableHeader = null; // store the amount of columns in table private $mColumnsCount = null; // constructor public function __construct() { $this-mTableHeader = new CARMainHeader(); } // rendering of table public function Render() { echo table; echo tr /; echo td class=''.$this-mTableHeader-; you're missing something here, don't you think? :) echo /td; echo td class=''; echo /td; echo /table; } } ? in the CARTable, i'm not able in the Render function to write $this-mTableHeader-GetTitle(); why ? you can, and it works. Once you actually call that method. - Tul -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 2 successive commands in one shell_exec?
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:16 PM, Govinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean I need to do that, and so with my very newbie level of understanding I think I need to have that shell_exec essentially do 2 things at once: -goto the right dir, and then -fire the script in that dir. like these 2 successive commands in terminal: cd $MyPath ./MyOtherCGI.cgi cd $MyPath ./MyOtherCGI.cgi or you maybe using full path: $MyPath/MyOtherCGI.cgi -- Saludos Oscar -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Question about __destruct()
Hi, I want to make sure I completely understand __destruct() and when its hit... Understand that it will run if all references to a particular object are removed, but is that also true when a page ends its execution? Example, I call a database class. It constructs, connects, then my page pulls some stuff out of the database, and then the php script ends. Does this also cause the deconstruct to execute? -- -Dan Joseph www.canishosting.com - Plans start @ $1.99/month. Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for the rest of the day. Light a man on fire, and will be warm for the rest of his life.
[PHP] Re: display_errors in DEV
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Until recently, I've thought that display_errors in DEV was good But as soon as you move into Ajax Web 2.0 world, it really doesn't cut it. You'll never see the E_NOTICE and E_WARNING errors for Ajax, probably, and the whole thing might just work but you'll have plenty of buggy code. I think it's time for the PHP team to recommend log_errors across the board. What do you think? You can also write a custom errorhandler which writes to a log file or to the syslog. I use a custom errorhandling class which registers itself and sends all errors (even fatals) there. Thsi way you can have easy and quick access to errors but not the hassle of disruptive output. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Question about __destruct()
Dan Joseph wrote: Hi, I want to make sure I completely understand __destruct() and when its hit... Understand that it will run if all references to a particular object are removed, but is that also true when a page ends its execution? Example, I call a database class. It constructs, connects, then my page pulls some stuff out of the database, and then the php script ends. Does this also cause the deconstruct to execute? When a script ends everything is released (with some small exceptions), thus also all references to instances of classes. Thus AFAIK a deconstructor will always be called at the end of script execution. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about __destruct()
Mike van Riel schreef: Dan Joseph wrote: Hi, I want to make sure I completely understand __destruct() and when its hit... Understand that it will run if all references to a particular object are removed, but is that also true when a page ends its execution? Example, I call a database class. It constructs, connects, then my page pulls some stuff out of the database, and then the php script ends. Does this also cause the deconstruct to execute? When a script ends everything is released (with some small exceptions), thus also all references to instances of classes. Thus AFAIK a deconstructor will always be called at the end of script execution. but you have no control over what order dtors are called and you can't make any assumptions about state of file handles to STDIN/STDOUT and things like that ... personally I find dtors run at end of script to be nigh on useless. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about __destruct()
On 21 Oct 2008, at 22:08, Jochem Maas wrote: Mike van Riel schreef: Dan Joseph wrote: Hi, I want to make sure I completely understand __destruct() and when its hit... Understand that it will run if all references to a particular object are removed, but is that also true when a page ends its execution? Example, I call a database class. It constructs, connects, then my page pulls some stuff out of the database, and then the php script ends. Does this also cause the deconstruct to execute? When a script ends everything is released (with some small exceptions), thus also all references to instances of classes. Thus AFAIK a deconstructor will always be called at the end of script execution. but you have no control over what order dtors are called and you can't make any assumptions about state of file handles to STDIN/STDOUT and things like that ... personally I find dtors run at end of script to be nigh on useless. I use destructors to update dirty objects in memcache. I also use them in my template class to optionally automagically output the footer without needing an explicit call on each page. They're far from useless. -Stut -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about __destruct()
Stut schreef: On 21 Oct 2008, at 22:08, Jochem Maas wrote: Mike van Riel schreef: Dan Joseph wrote: Hi, I want to make sure I completely understand __destruct() and when its hit... Understand that it will run if all references to a particular object are removed, but is that also true when a page ends its execution? Example, I call a database class. It constructs, connects, then my page pulls some stuff out of the database, and then the php script ends. Does this also cause the deconstruct to execute? When a script ends everything is released (with some small exceptions), thus also all references to instances of classes. Thus AFAIK a deconstructor will always be called at the end of script execution. but you have no control over what order dtors are called and you can't make any assumptions about state of file handles to STDIN/STDOUT and things like that ... personally I find dtors run at end of script to be nigh on useless. I use destructors to update dirty objects in memcache. care to eloborate ... sounds interesting. I also use them in my template class to optionally automagically output the footer without needing an explicit call on each page. not sure if I find that of much use, I see the validity but 1 LOC to eplicitly output a page footer seems to me to be less of a wtf than an(other) bit of auto-magic to save what is probably a very short simple method call. They're far from useless. true. but they are limited, there is no garantee any other object will still exist when a particular dtor is run [at shutdown] which means a heavy OO codebase cannot have object automated object interaction at shutdown ... there are other gotchas (e.g. closed file descriptors to STDIN/STDOUT) interaction with memcache though is a really good example. and I'd like to learn a little more :-D -Stut -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] How to Execute Exe File from PHP
HI, To answer your questions, I run this on Windows. What is so weird is that when I do $a= shell_exec(C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\/test.exe -m$market -d$length); echo $a; It works, and echoes everything as it is supposed to, and the file is also generated like I expected. However, the PHP file where I execute this from is in the same folder (which is why I thought using a . would work) Could anyone please tell me if this is only way Ito do this on a Windows machine? Thanks in advance, I think I am getting a little confused. Alice _ Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] -help
-- - Devta Singh http://yogakundalini.com/ http://devta.wordpress.com/ Nada hay como ver despertar a otros y verles expandir su conciencia, salvo hacerlo uno mismo.
Re: [PHP] ZendOptimizer + APC
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone know whether running ZendOptimizer + APC simultaneously still causes allsorts of problems ... I know it did in the past but I can't find any very recent stuff about the issues online. never tried it, but 2 small things worth a mention; 1. supposedly eacellerator has some sort of optimizer 2. apc is getting optimization support, but im not sure when it will usable -nathan
[PHP] Mysql search
Hey all, I have two columns in my DB title varchar(254) and jtext text which I would like to search, as the user might enter two or more words I am opting not to use LIKE %search_term% so started searching google, I came across this very promising class: http://code.activestate.com/recipes/125901/ but when i tried to run it I am just getting a blank page, no errors or anything. Am hoping someone out there can recommend a better script or maybe share some of your own code? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Ryan -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Mysql search
On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 21:48 -0700, Ryan S wrote: Hey all, I have two columns in my DB title varchar(254) and jtext text which I would like to search, as the user might enter two or more words I am opting not to use LIKE %search_term% so started searching google, I came across this very promising class: http://code.activestate.com/recipes/125901/ but when i tried to run it I am just getting a blank page, no errors or anything. Am hoping someone out there can recommend a better script or maybe share some of your own code? Any help would be appreciated. Do it right... read up on MySQL's fulltext matching. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: class and inheritance
basically i did this but Zend studio for eclipse does not show me the data or methods members after one - :-( On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 9:11 PM, Maciek Sokolewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Alain Roger wrote: Hi, I'm trying to create a class that has as public members some other class object. for that i use almost the same syntax as under C# or C++. header class: ?php class CARMainHeader { // title of the main table header private $mTitle = null; // holds the height of the table header private $mHeight = null; // constructor public function __construct() { $this-mHeight = 15; $this-mTitle = Title; } // set the title of the main table public function SetTitle($name) { $this-mTitle = $name; } // return the title of the main table public function GetTitle() { return $this-mTitle; } // set the height of the header public function SetHeight($height) { $this-mHeight = $height; } // return the height of the header public function GetHeight() { return $this-mHeight; } } ? main class code : ?php include_once 'CARMainHeader.php'; class CARTable { // holds the main table header object public $mTableHeader = null; // store the amount of columns in table private $mColumnsCount = null; // constructor public function __construct() { $this-mTableHeader = new CARMainHeader(); } // rendering of table public function Render() { echo table; echo tr /; echo td class=''.$this-mTableHeader-; you're missing something here, don't you think? :) echo /td; echo td class=''; echo /td; echo /table; } } ? in the CARTable, i'm not able in the Render function to write $this-mTableHeader-GetTitle(); why ? you can, and it works. Once you actually call that method. - Tul -- Alain Windows XP SP3 PostgreSQL 8.2.4 / MS SQL server 2005 Apache 2.2.4 PHP 5.2.4 C# 2005-2008