Re: What is the multimedia future for Squeeze?
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 03:52:00AM -0300, Ricardo . wrote: > Nowadays I think something like an audio-backports or multimedia-backports > repo > would be the way to go, with an rt-kernel and updated audio packages. 64Studio > was something like that, but I don't know how well they are maintaining their > debian packages since they migrated to ubuntu. Musix also compiles newer > versions of packages, if they all joined forces into a single backports repo > it > would be just perfect. I wonder if there's any way to guesstimate the resources required for such a thing. I think it would be a good thing. What would it take to make this happen? -edrz ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: What is the multimedia future for Squeeze?
Hi, On Montag, 22. März 2010, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > As others have mentioned already, Debian itself haven't changed: stable > is _stable_ and only security-related updates are permitted into it > after its release - any new features will only occur in testing, > unstable and experimental. Actually thats not true anymore. Since etch, bugfixes of severity important and higher _are_ (or "might be") accepted for stable updates, if the change is non-intrusive. New features are of course not accepted. cheers, Holger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: What is the multimedia future for Squeeze?
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 01:53:20PM -0700, i...@bandshed.net wrote: My question about Stable was semi-rhetorical. Having observed the pattern of Debian Stable in the past (and yes I was complaining a little wee bit). Now that there is a dedicated multimedia packaging team I wonder if AV Linux should continue with Squeeze (less fresh packages, far more core library stability) and will there be a better representation of multimedia updates through down to Stable?. Or will I need to continue using Testing as a base in order to continue keeping pace?. Does that make more sense? Thanks - it makes more sense to me now, yes (and perhaps if I weren't so jumpy/grumpy I might have understood from your first post even). As others have mentioned already, Debian itself haven't changed: stable is _stable_ and only security-related updates are permitted into it after its release - any new features will only occur in testing, unstable and experimental. backports.org is one approach to bridge the gap between stability and new features. You provide another yourself, if I understood correctly. Personally I maintain a huge pile of backported packages, some even for Etch (oldstable) still. I find the governing rules of backports.org too relaxed, so do not participate in that. So there are a multitude of options for mixing stable Debian with other parts - either testing or unstable Debian or something external to Debian. What we can do here in this packaging team is to strive towards best possible conditions not only for a package to fullfill the requirements of getting into Debian unstable, but also suitable for recompilation in alien environments usable by various backports and sideports. Personally I try to avoid including packaging features difficult to backport to oldstable, or if too much hassle then at least stable. Currently this means I avoid debhelper v7 because I have found newer releases of the debhelper package itself quite tricky to backport. I don't mean to preach debhelper as evil here, just mention one (to me quite concrete[1]) example of caring about backportability when packaging. Hopefully that addressed some of your concern. Kind regards, - Jonas [1] For several years I have fought to maintain a backport of the Perl-based LDAP admin tool CipUX for Etch, which involved backporting several Perl libraries that quite annoyingly have been repackaged using the shortform debhelper v7 that has been impossible (for me) to backport to Etch. I ended up repackaging those libraries from scratch using CDBS - being happy that it was only Perl libraries I had to deal with like that, as they are luckily quite easy to package (and even easier using CDBS IMHO, but that's another story). -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: What is the multimedia future for Squeeze?
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 10:28:31PM +0100, Reinhard Tartler wrote: > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 21:53:20 (CET), i...@bandshed.net wrote: > > I'm sorry to have not been more concise with my question, > > > > My question about Stable was semi-rhetorical. Having observed the pattern > > of Debian Stable in the past (and yes I was complaining a little wee bit). > > Now that there is a dedicated multimedia packaging team I wonder if AV > > Linux should continue with Squeeze (less fresh packages, far more core > > library stability) and will there be a better representation of multimedia > > updates through down to Stable?. Or will I need to continue using Testing > > as a base in order to continue keeping pace?. > > > > Does that make more sense? > > not sure, but you might have guessed it, stable will not see frequent > updates to released packages. This way users can rely that security and > other updates will not change the behavior of deployed packages. > > For getting new packages into stable inclusion of updated package in the > backport.org archive can be considered. My feeling is that stable can be kept "fresh" with backports up to a certain point, at which point it makes sense to switch to unstable/testing as a base. The sweet spot will always be a moving target. Each custom-distro, individual user or organization's team needs to make that call for themselves. If one wanted a rule to live by within each release cycle, perhaps "stable+backports until testing enters freeze" might serve for some use cases/target audiences. But, again, it's a judgement call. Stability and security and "The bugs we know" vs. new features, new cabalities and "new and interesting bugs". Anyway, not sure if I'm totally making sense, but this is a topic I think about often. In an ideal world we could support people using/buiding upon stable through backports until it becomes old-stable or some major library transition is required. But, until I actually put-up and do some real work for this team, I have no right to complain. :) -edrz ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: What is the multimedia future for Squeeze?
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 21:53:20 (CET), i...@bandshed.net wrote: > I'm sorry to have not been more concise with my question, > > My question about Stable was semi-rhetorical. Having observed the pattern > of Debian Stable in the past (and yes I was complaining a little wee bit). > Now that there is a dedicated multimedia packaging team I wonder if AV > Linux should continue with Squeeze (less fresh packages, far more core > library stability) and will there be a better representation of multimedia > updates through down to Stable?. Or will I need to continue using Testing > as a base in order to continue keeping pace?. > > Does that make more sense? not sure, but you might have guessed it, stable will not see frequent updates to released packages. This way users can rely that security and other updates will not change the behavior of deployed packages. For getting new packages into stable inclusion of updated package in the backport.org archive can be considered. -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: What is the multimedia future for Squeeze?
Jonas, Thanks for the reply, I'm sorry to have not been more concise with my question, My question about Stable was semi-rhetorical. Having observed the pattern of Debian Stable in the past (and yes I was complaining a little wee bit). Now that there is a dedicated multimedia packaging team I wonder if AV Linux should continue with Squeeze (less fresh packages, far more core library stability) and will there be a better representation of multimedia updates through down to Stable?. Or will I need to continue using Testing as a base in order to continue keeping pace?. Does that make more sense? I'm not even sure if it is an answerable question...but opinions are a valued response as well. Thanks, -GLEN > Hi Glen, > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 12:55:07PM -0700, i...@bandshed.net wrote: > >>I am a member of this list but not the packaging team, I develop AV >>Linux and use your packages from GIT, Unstable and Squeeze regularly. >>Last year when I released AV Linux 2.0 based on Squeeze I had to build >>about 75% of the Audio applications from source in order to fulfill the >>status quo with other Multimedia intensive Distributions. The amount of >>ground this team has covered in less than a year is earth-shattering, I >>now have less than 10% of my applications outside of the official >>Debian channels. >> >>Perhaps in the long term you guys will make me redundant but my user >>numbers continue to grow and I have to contemplate what direction to >>continue in. > > Perhaps you could see the benefit of maintaining those remaining 10% at > Alioth? > > In other words: Why not join the team - even if your target it a > derivative of Debian rather than Debian itself? I could certainly see a > benefit in working as close together as possible! :-) > > > >>I haven't found Debian Testing/Unstable to be a terrible easy thing to >>distribute, as a single developer I don't have an extensive breakage >>buffering infrastructure like SiduX does and I basically have to tell >>my users not to update and provide them with regular updated ISO >>snapshots that I have broken and fixed to a point of useability. > > Interesting. Seriously. > > I have quite some opinions on ways to produce custom distributions based > on Debian, but that's off topic for this list. I'd be happy to discuss > this topic further at the ble...@lists.debian.org list instead. > > > >>Finally to my question(s)...how much of the current pkg-multimedia >>inventory will find it's way into Debian 6.0? > > Do you know about the Debian QA pages? Have a look here: > http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-multimedia-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org > > ...and notice the "Testing" column - that's what will end in next stable > Debian distribution release, if all goes well. > > >>Also now that there is a pkg-multimedia team in place for the next >>stable release will new applications eventually make their way into >>Stable? Or will it be the age old pattern of Debian Stable being bliss >>for the first few moths of it's release and then being woefully out of >>date for multimedia heads? > > Yes, that is exactly how it is: after a few months WHAM! everything is > old, boring and shitty and everyone are just longing for the next > release happening ages later. > > Or were you not trolling? Seems you knew the answer already and really > wanted to complain. Perhaps if you rephrase your question it might be > easier to understand (for me at least). > > >>I wish I could say that Xorg, Udev, Grub2 and other libs have been fun >>to work with this past year...but NOT! I'd like to know what to expect >>to continue on for the next year. (Or until you guys get rid of me!) > > Again - what is your question here? > > > kind regards, > > - Jonas > > -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > ___ > pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list > pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers > ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: What is the multimedia future for Squeeze?
Hi Glen, On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 12:55:07PM -0700, i...@bandshed.net wrote: I am a member of this list but not the packaging team, I develop AV Linux and use your packages from GIT, Unstable and Squeeze regularly. Last year when I released AV Linux 2.0 based on Squeeze I had to build about 75% of the Audio applications from source in order to fulfill the status quo with other Multimedia intensive Distributions. The amount of ground this team has covered in less than a year is earth-shattering, I now have less than 10% of my applications outside of the official Debian channels. Perhaps in the long term you guys will make me redundant but my user numbers continue to grow and I have to contemplate what direction to continue in. Perhaps you could see the benefit of maintaining those remaining 10% at Alioth? In other words: Why not join the team - even if your target it a derivative of Debian rather than Debian itself? I could certainly see a benefit in working as close together as possible! :-) I haven't found Debian Testing/Unstable to be a terrible easy thing to distribute, as a single developer I don't have an extensive breakage buffering infrastructure like SiduX does and I basically have to tell my users not to update and provide them with regular updated ISO snapshots that I have broken and fixed to a point of useability. Interesting. Seriously. I have quite some opinions on ways to produce custom distributions based on Debian, but that's off topic for this list. I'd be happy to discuss this topic further at the ble...@lists.debian.org list instead. Finally to my question(s)...how much of the current pkg-multimedia inventory will find it's way into Debian 6.0? Do you know about the Debian QA pages? Have a look here: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-multimedia-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org ...and notice the "Testing" column - that's what will end in next stable Debian distribution release, if all goes well. Also now that there is a pkg-multimedia team in place for the next stable release will new applications eventually make their way into Stable? Or will it be the age old pattern of Debian Stable being bliss for the first few moths of it's release and then being woefully out of date for multimedia heads? Yes, that is exactly how it is: after a few months WHAM! everything is old, boring and shitty and everyone are just longing for the next release happening ages later. Or were you not trolling? Seems you knew the answer already and really wanted to complain. Perhaps if you rephrase your question it might be easier to understand (for me at least). I wish I could say that Xorg, Udev, Grub2 and other libs have been fun to work with this past year...but NOT! I'd like to know what to expect to continue on for the next year. (Or until you guys get rid of me!) Again - what is your question here? kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
What is the multimedia future for Squeeze?
Hello, I am a member of this list but not the packaging team, I develop AV Linux and use your packages from GIT, Unstable and Squeeze regularly. Last year when I released AV Linux 2.0 based on Squeeze I had to build about 75% of the Audio applications from source in order to fulfill the status quo with other Multimedia intensive Distributions. The amount of ground this team has covered in less than a year is earth-shattering, I now have less than 10% of my applications outside of the official Debian channels. Perhaps in the long term you guys will make me redundant but my user numbers continue to grow and I have to contemplate what direction to continue in. I haven't found Debian Testing/Unstable to be a terrible easy thing to distribute, as a single developer I don't have an extensive breakage buffering infrastructure like SiduX does and I basically have to tell my users not to update and provide them with regular updated ISO snapshots that I have broken and fixed to a point of useability. Finally to my question(s)...how much of the current pkg-multimedia inventory will find it's way into Debian 6.0? Also now that there is a pkg-multimedia team in place for the next stable release will new applications eventually make their way into Stable? Or will it be the age old pattern of Debian Stable being bliss for the first few moths of it's release and then being woefully out of date for multimedia heads? I wish I could say that Xorg, Udev, Grub2 and other libs have been fun to work with this past year...but NOT! I'd like to know what to expect to continue on for the next year. (Or until you guys get rid of me!) Your comments and insight are appreciated! Best Regards, Glen MacArthur http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
