Re: [PEDA] file formats for PCB manufacturers
Jim, There are more than 1000 Certified Designers worldwide. Personally, I'm proud to be one of them. As far as I know,it is the only international qualification, recognising the baseline skills and knowledge required to be a board designer. Phil. Phil Dutton C.I.D. Senior CAD Technician IPC Certified Interconnect Designer Tenix Defence Systems Pty Ltd Systems Division - Adelaide Second Avenue, Technology Park, Mawson Lakes. SOUTH AUSTRALIA 5095 -Original Message- From: Jim McGrath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 7:20 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] file formats for PCB manufacturers Brad, If I recall correctly the IPC-D-350 was supposed to be a format that would allow any CAD package to exchange data (in fact whole designs) with any other CAD package. Talk about Utopia! It never caught on or hasn't yet. The IPC needs more teeth to be truly our guiding force. Most will agree that their specs are a good place to start but not the end all in information. Unless the many component makers adopt their standards they cannot be completely trusted. I can't tell you how many times A part is call SOIC-16 and actually is quite differnet in reallity. Another good example is the design cetification. How many Designers are certifiied worldwide? 50 maybe? Don't get me wrong I would LOVE to have a definitive force in our field but I just don't see it. I hope I haven't offended anyone but that is the way I feel. Regards, Jim McGrath CAD Connections, Inc. Brad Velander wrote: Jim, to a degree you are correct but I don't see where they make any serious money from adaptation of their standards. The moneys derived from selling the standards to people who might develop output software and then a limited number of designers who have to know what the standard says, at best only covers their expenses. Remember somebody had to write the standard and meet with the other authors, sleep , eat and drink while doing so. Brad Velander, Lead PCB Designer, Norsat International Inc., #300 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., V5C 6G9. Tel. (604) 292-9089 direct Fax (604) 292-9010 website www.norsat.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Drawing polygons that contain arcs, is more control po ssible?
Hi Brad /\say this is the track i just placed (for the outline) net name = outline | / |/(ooops, forgot the key part) add a small track named fill inside the area, then drag a polygon completely over it (net name = fill etc) it will only fill inside the area.( outside is dead copper) then safely remove the outline tracks. this works for me assuming i don't need to repour the polygon. :-) i would agree though that the arcs are a pain in the a*s* Rich I don't understand your methodology. If you drag the polygon over the track outline of the same net and select remove dead copper. When you repour if the polygon touches the track outline then it is not dead copper and does not get removed. It can fill inside the track outline and outside of it as long as the pour segments can touch that outline somewhere. Something is missing here because I just can't follow your lead. Brad Velander, Lead PCB Designer, Norsat International Inc., #300 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., V5C 6G9. Tel. (604) 292-9089 direct Fax (604) 292-9010 website www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: Richard Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 5:43 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Drawing polygons that contain arcs, is more control po ssible? hi brad if i understand corrrectly, (excuse me if i don't) when placing arcs on a polygon you cannot press space to change the start/end mode (as you can when placing a track) therefore the polygon can be whatever protel feels like at the time :-) when i am placing polygon outlines i add a new net called outline and fill i draw around where i want the curved polygon etc with a track segment (which is easier as the space bar works) then i drag a polygon fill over the top (set its net to be fill) and then select remove dead copper etc in the polygon options. lastly remove the temporary outline voila one curved polygon exactly how you need it. Rich * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] more footprints
Re: [PEDA] more footprints
- Original Message - From: Dan G. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: [PEDA] more footprints Greetings all, When editing a library part, the component description only allows 4 footprints to be associated with that part. This can be seen again when placing a part on a schematic, giving only four choices of footprints (ie:resistors) plus whatever you can remember. My question is: Is there a way of increasing the number of listed footprints without having to memorize, write down or search the pcb library for the unlisted footprints? Regards, Dan Dan: Instead of having only 1 Resistor schematic part, make several, ie.. 1/4WResistor, 1/2WResistor, etc... You should be able to get away with less than 4 footprints for each of these, even considering through hole and surface mount. Greg * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] autorouter
Hi guys, Can anyone explain why the autorouter is giving me this error message please? one or more connections cannot be routed due to design rule violations this happens even if i try to just route a single component or net as well as the whole board. i have done a done a complete drc (and online checking is active) there are no errors/violations reported. i have tried removing all of the design rules and it still refuses to play ball. any ideas? Rich Richard Thompson BLT Industries * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Gerber specification
Yesterday there was a thread on file formats for PCB manufacturers. Here is where you can find the gerber specification in .pdf format. http://www.barco.be/ets/data/rs274xc.pdf Regards, Ted Tontis C.I.D. Engage Networks 316 N. Milwaukee Street Suite 214 Milwaukee WI, 53202 PH 414-273-7600 ext. 7607 FX 414-273-7601 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] more footprints
Well...I have been tempted to use a single schematic object (say a Schottky) and associate it with a number of different footprints (DO-41, C-16, DO-204AR, TO-220AC, D-PAK.. so on). Maybe that is what the original poster was asking about?? Madhu -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:35 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] more footprints In a message dated 7/20/01 9:28:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When editing a library part, the component description only allows 4 footprints to be associated with that part. This can be seen again when placing a part on a schematic, giving only four choices of footprints (ie:resistors) plus whatever you can remember. My question is: Is there a way of increasing the number of listed footprints without having to memorize, write down or search the pcb library for the unlisted footprints? Are you perhaps misunderstanding the use of this field? I don't know of any component that comes in more than four different footprints, certainly not four that I would use. I'm sure someone can come up with a counterexample, or perhaps you can explain some unusual use for this field. Steve Hendrix * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Drawing polygons that contain arcs, is more control po ssible?
Thanks Richard,
now I got it. I had missed the effect of the two nets. Thanks for
re-explaining it, I must of been having one of those challenged moments.
That is tricky.
Brad Velander,
Lead PCB Designer,
Norsat International Inc.,
#300 - 4401 Still Creek Dr.,
Burnaby, B.C., V5C 6G9.
Tel. (604) 292-9089 direct
Fax (604) 292-9010
website www.norsat.com
-Original Message-
From: Richard Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:07 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Drawing polygons that contain arcs, is
more control
po ssible?
Hi Brad
/\say this is the track i just placed (for
the outline)
net name = outline
| /
|/(ooops, forgot the key part) add a small
track named
fill inside the
area, then drag a polygon completely over
it (net name
= fill etc) it will only fill inside the area.( outside is
dead copper)
then safely remove the outline tracks.
this works for me assuming i don't need to repour the
polygon. :-)
i would agree though that the arcs are a pain in the a*s*
Rich
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Re: [PEDA] more footprints
Steve, It would be very easy to get more then 4 footprints if a person was using a generic transistor symbol. Especially if they are numbering pins using the EBC/DGS method. Using that method you could then come up with probably no less then 40 to 50 orientations/footprints. (One reason that I don't use that method, been there, done that many years ago.) In answer to the orignal question, I have never heard of any method to support more footprints within a library symbol, I doubt there is one. Brad Velander, Lead PCB Designer, Norsat International Inc., #300 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., V5C 6G9. Tel. (604) 292-9089 direct Fax (604) 292-9010 website www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:35 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] more footprints Are you perhaps misunderstanding the use of this field? I don't know of any component that comes in more than four different footprints, certainly not four that I would use. I'm sure someone can come up with a counterexample, or perhaps you can explain some unusual use for this field. Steve Hendrix * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] autorouter
Hi Richard, I would suggest that you check your setup on Design Rules for the autorouter. It may be that the spacing you are telling the program to maintain is so large that there are no paths for the router to take that would not violate the spacing rule. - Bill Brooks Bill Brooks PCB Design Engineer DATRON WORLD COMMUNICATIONS INC. 3030 Enterprise Court Vista, CA 92083 Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] IPC Designers Council, San Diego Chapter http://www.ipc.org/SanDiego/ http://home.fda.net/bbrooks/pca/pca.htm -Original Message- From: Richard Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 7:08 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] autorouter Hi guys, Can anyone explain why the autorouter is giving me this error message please? one or more connections cannot be routed due to design rule violations this happens even if i try to just route a single component or net as well as the whole board. i have done a done a complete drc (and online checking is active) there are no errors/violations reported. i have tried removing all of the design rules and it still refuses to play ball. any ideas? Rich Richard Thompson BLT Industries * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Bow Twist
On normal 2 layer PCBs, I've seen my boards stay flat fine through the SMT mounting process, but after the wave pass, they would have an arch in them. When I changes the design to a 4 layer board, it no longer happened. I think the material on the 4 layer was of better refinement than the 2 layer, even though both boards came from the same manufacture. _ Brian Guralnick - Original Message - From: Dennis Saputelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Bow Twist | I've occasionally had boards received nice and flat from board fab, and | then have substantial bow and twist after assembly | | Dennis Saputelli | | Brian Guralnick wrote: | | Also, bow twist for a flex PCB is a whole new ball game. | | _ | Brian Guralnick | | - Original Message - | From: Harry Selfridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] | To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 2:33 AM | Subject: Re: [PEDA] Bow Twist | | | | -- | ___ | www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. |tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street | fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 | | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Bow Twist
It sounds like your wave soldering process is not set up correctly. The boards should be evenly heated through before wave soldering, then cooled uniformly. What you describe happens when the board is heated mostly on the solder wave side, causing softening of the resin and differential expansion top to bottom. As soon as the board leaves the soldering station, it is probably cooled rapidly by ambient exposure or forced air cooling. This is a recipe for guaranteed warping. Your multilayer boards are more tolerant of the abuse because they have more thermal mass ( they can't heat or cool as rapidly throughout the bulk material ). The inner layers are essentially holding things together for you; however, I'll bet the four layer boards are also warping - just not as noticeably. If you want to see the physics in action for yourself, try taking a scrap board and heating just the top side with a heat gun - you'll make a 'Frisbee' of it fairly quickly. Material, layup, copper volume, and differential temperature are the ingredients you need to mix carefully to avoid warp, bow, and twist. Regards - Harry At 11:52 AM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: On normal 2 layer PCBs, I've seen my boards stay flat fine through the SMT mounting process, but after the wave pass, they would have an arch in them. When I changes the design to a 4 layer board, it no longer happened. I think the material on the 4 layer was of better refinement than the 2 layer, even though both boards came from the same manufacture. _ Brian Guralnick - Original Message - From: Dennis Saputelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Bow Twist | I've occasionally had boards received nice and flat from board fab, and | then have substantial bow and twist after assembly snip * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Bow Twist
yes I'm sure that was the problem on a few occasions Dennis Saputelli Harry Selfridge wrote: It sounds like your wave soldering process is not set up correctly. The boards should be evenly heated through before wave soldering, then cooled uniformly. What you describe happens when the board is heated mostly on the solder wave side, causing softening of the resin and differential expansion top to bottom. As soon as the board leaves the soldering station, it is probably cooled rapidly by ambient exposure or forced air cooling. This is a recipe for guaranteed warping. Your multilayer boards are more tolerant of the abuse because they have more thermal mass ( they can't heat or cool as rapidly throughout the bulk material ). The inner layers are essentially holding things together for you; however, I'll bet the four layer boards are also warping - just not as noticeably. If you want to see the physics in action for yourself, try taking a scrap board and heating just the top side with a heat gun - you'll make a 'Frisbee' of it fairly quickly. Material, layup, copper volume, and differential temperature are the ingredients you need to mix carefully to avoid warp, bow, and twist. Regards - Harry -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Bow Twist
Try increasing the pre-heater temp or slow the conveyer speed. You need the top side of the board at 200 degrees F before contacting the wave. Bill Pullen -Original Message- From: Harry Selfridge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 12:54 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Bow Twist It sounds like your wave soldering process is not set up correctly. The boards should be evenly heated through before wave soldering, then cooled uniformly. What you describe happens when the board is heated mostly on the solder wave side, causing softening of the resin and differential expansion top to bottom. As soon as the board leaves the soldering station, it is probably cooled rapidly by ambient exposure or forced air cooling. This is a recipe for guaranteed warping. Your multilayer boards are more tolerant of the abuse because they have more thermal mass ( they can't heat or cool as rapidly throughout the bulk material ). The inner layers are essentially holding things together for you; however, I'll bet the four layer boards are also warping - just not as noticeably. If you want to see the physics in action for yourself, try taking a scrap board and heating just the top side with a heat gun - you'll make a 'Frisbee' of it fairly quickly. Material, layup, copper volume, and differential temperature are the ingredients you need to mix carefully to avoid warp, bow, and twist. Regards - Harry At 11:52 AM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: On normal 2 layer PCBs, I've seen my boards stay flat fine through the SMT mounting process, but after the wave pass, they would have an arch in them. When I changes the design to a 4 layer board, it no longer happened. I think the material on the 4 layer was of better refinement than the 2 layer, even though both boards came from the same manufacture. _ Brian Guralnick - Original Message - From: Dennis Saputelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Bow Twist | I've occasionally had boards received nice and flat from board fab, and | then have substantial bow and twist after assembly snip * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] importing power pcb files
I checked the archive for a thread regarding this but its not there. I want to take a power PCB v3.6 file and import it into protel. I was told at one time this could be done? How far back does the archive go? is there a more extensive one, or am I looking at the wrong archive? Thank you, Ted Tontis C.I.D. Engage Networks 316 N. Milwaukee Street Suite 214 Milwaukee WI, 53202 PH 414-273-7600 ext. 7607 FX 414-273-7601 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
