Re: [Python-3000] pre-PEP: Procedure for PEPs withBackwards-Incompatible Changes

"Steven Bethard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On 3/28/06, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I like your strawman: if incompatibilities or synergy >> don't require it to go into Py3k, let's propose it for 2.x. > > Yeah, I think this makes a lot of sens

Re: [Python-3000] Iterators for dict keys, values, and items == annoying :)

"Aahz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > What do we want to tell people who have code like this: > > keys = d.keys() > keys.sort() Could a good-enough code analyzer detect such, even if separated by intervening lines? If so, it could suggest sorted() as a fix. I wo

Re: [Python-3000] Iterating over a dict

"Thomas Lotze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > The reason I ask this on the python-3000 list is that I wonder whether > the > iterating behaviour of dicts might be changed in Python 3k, so that in > the > above code, foo() would be applied to the dict's values. Di

Re: [Python-3000] A few small py3k wishes

"Michael P. Soulier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >It's a minor thing, but it'd be nice to make a method alias for append() >on >mutable sequences called push(), to go with pop(). Bound methods to your rescue: _stack = [] push = _stack.append pop = _stack.pop N

Re: [Python-3000] pre-PEP: Things that Will Not Change in Python 3.0

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >I was going to comment about this one "check it in, we'll add to it > later", but then I realized it's not 100% clear whether this is a > feature PEP or a meta-PEP? > In any case let's not let it longer for long. Real

Re: [Python-3000] pre-PEP: Process for reviewing/improving stdlibmodules in 3.0

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >I didn't see any comments on this PEP. For me, it is pretty clear and sensible, hence not much to say. Plus I expected others to says whatever was needed ;-). > I'm not sure that the order in which the > steps are t

Re: [Python-3000] Adaptation vs. Generic Functions

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > #!/usr/bin/python2.4 > > """An example of generic functions vs. adaptation. Nice. For me, the idea of 'generic function' goes into my brain much more smoothly than the idea of 'protocol adaptation' even though the

Re: [Python-3000] Kill "generic functions"!

"Michael Chermside" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Greg Ewing writes: >> "Multiple dispatch" > > +1 > > How is the noun spelled? "Multiple Dispatch Function"? Too wordy perhaps? > I > like it anyhow. -1 To me, multiple dispatch mean dispatching on multiple argume

Re: [Python-3000] Separating out CPython and core Python tests

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > I agree that such a test suite would be helpful. I don't think it > should wait for Python 3000. Possible plan: Add 'spec' or 'specification' or 'language', 'implementation', and possibly 'support' subdirs to ...Lib/test. Put most test

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3002: Procedure for Backwards-Incompatible Changes

"Steven Bethard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Thus, for any backwards-incompatible change, two things are required: > > * An official Python Enhancement Proposal (PEP) > * Code that can identify pieces of Python 2.X code that may be > problematic in Python 3000

Re: [Python-3000] Adaptation vs. Generic Functions

"Ian Bicking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Definitely wild. Reader beware. Now is the time to generate lots of >> wild ideas and let them sink in. If it still seems a good idea 3 >> months from now we may select it for a code experiment (as opposed to >> a though

Re: [Python-3000] More wishful thinking

"Talin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unfortunately, if the paragraph only contains a single word, > this blows up. So what you end up having to do is: > > parts = paragraph.split( ' ', 1 ) > if len( parts ) > 1: > first, rest = parts > else: > firs

Re: [Python-3000] Cleaning up argument list parsing (was Re: Morewishful thinking)

"Talin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > The important thing is that the behavior be clear and unambiguous, > which I think this is. Many would also prefer that functions calls not become noticeable slower than they already are. tjr _

Re: [Python-3000] Python 3000 and the Google Summer of Code

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > The PSF (you) needs to create a page (in the wiki is fine) with > instructions for mentors, and make sure that is linked to from the > code.google.com/soc/ page as "(ideas)" after our name, just like the > Perl found

Re: [Python-3000] Python 3000 and the Google Summer of Code

"Neal Norwitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On 4/17/06, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> The PyPy group also has a few prospective mentors, projects, and >> mentees. >> On the presumption that PSF coor

Re: [Python-3000] Python 3000 and the Google Summer of Code

"Jan Claeys" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Well, I know the Django (web framework) people are maybe interested in > someone doing a SoC project for them: > So interested that they have signed up as

Re: [Python-3000] Python 3000 and the Google Summer of Code

"Neal Norwitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Here's a write up about last year's projects: > http://wiki.python.org/moin/SummerOfCode/2005 > > Payment was all or nothing. I thought we had something like 18 > projects, there are 14 up on the page above. I now coun

Re: [Python-3000] Python 3000 and the Google Summer of Code

[This discussion could just as well go to py-dev, but it is here, this is here;-] Draft of announcement to send to various Python related lists. Google 2006 Summer of Code and Python Software Foundation This spring and summer, Google corporation will again provide several hundred stip

Re: [Python-3000] After 2.6 should be 3.0

"Josiah Carlson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Personally, I see Py3k as a vetting mechanism for all those hair-brained > ideas that really shouldn't make it into any Python version (3k or > otherwise), with the possible inclusion of things that *should* make > lif

Re: [Python-3000] Cleaning up argument list parsing (was Re: Morewishful thinking)

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I once considered and rejected this syntax since another logical > interpretation would be that any positional arguments are accepted but > *ignored*. I was about to suggest that perhaps this is how it should be int

Re: [Python-3000] Type Expressions

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On 4/19/06, Greg Ewing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Py3k suggestion: make ... a generally legal expression. > > Yup. An addition for PEP 3100 under core language. ___

Re: [Python-3000] After 2.6 should be 3.0

"Josiah Carlson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > It seems you are right (I was paying attention, but apparently to the > wrong stuff); after going through most of the py3k list history, those > changes that would have been backwards compatible were basically > reject

Re: [Python-3000] Python 3000 and the Google Summer of Code

"Aahz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > [Neal asked me to post this nitpick in case someone else posts the > announcement] Thank you. Really. > Either s/between/from/ or s/through/and/ Yes. Late night continuity disconnect. > Python: because we care about langu

Re: [Python-3000] Python 3000 and the Google Summer of Code

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > One comment: I would add explicitly to the subject that the PSF is > currently requesting mentors, not students. Perhaps > > Subject: Python Software Foundation looking for mentors for the > Google Summer of Code >

Re: [Python-3000] Python 3000 and the Google Summer of Code

"Neal Norwitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Terry, if you can post this during the day, please go ahead and do so > and incorporate Guido's and Aahz's comments. My revision is both pasted below and attached as a text file. I am not posting because I prefer you

Re: [Python-3000] Cleaning up argument list parsing (was Re: Morewishful thinking)

"Ian Bicking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I don't know if there's an advantage to presenting a signature that > accurately describes the function; it can never *really* be accurate in > all cases, as there can be all sorts of constraints that are impossible > to

Re: [Python-3000] Pronouncement on parameter lists

"Brett Cannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On 4/21/06, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Oh, other standard function attributes probably all ought to be >> renamed from func_whatever to __whatever__. That applies to >> 'func_closure', 'func_code', 'f

Re: [Python-3000] Brainstorming: Python Metaprogramming

"Talin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > For some reason, I have stuck in my head the idea that this concept of > 'quoting' > is central to the whole business I agree. And in Python, the main means of implicit (unwritten) quoting is to use a statement instead of a

Re: [Python-3000] sets in P3K?

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On 4/24/06, Alex Martelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I dislike that as much as I dislike [] as a shorthand for >> list(), but I have no trouble admitting that if we have the >> [...] form, it's consistent to have

Re: [Python-3000] Changing order of class creation

"Ian Bicking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] metaclass using a couple rules. Then it does: > > X = metaclass('X', (base,), {'y': 'z'}) > > What if instead it did: > > X = metaclass('X', (base,)) > X.y = 'z' What if X is inmutable, or intended to be so, either

Re: [Python-3000] sets in P3K?

"Alex Martelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On 4/25/06, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... >> If list comprehensions didn't come first (and even though list >> comprehensions came first), I would argue that there should only be >> generator express

Re: [Python-3000] sets in P3K?

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Curiously, min() and max() successfully use the same overloading. > However, these don't have the same problem, because min() or max() of > one value makes no sense, The expressions 'min(x)' and 'max(x)', x an order

Re: [Python-3000] More batteries included!

"Fredrik Lundh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > hopefully, the Py3K distributors will use semi-automatic tools to > download > all they need to build a battery-included release. pushing all that over > to > the end users would be a major mistake. > (python-dev and

Re: [Python-3000] Automatically invoking str() in str.join()

"Brett Cannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I wouldn't want it added without ditching the other two versions as > well. Personally I would be fine if string.join() stayed and we > considered removing str.join() and just made the string module more > prominent (af

Re: [Python-3000] Stackable Blocks

"Crutcher Dunnavant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I don't really care how it gets spelled. In the current system, I > _have_ to break the context spec up on multiple lines, I consider that a plus. It is part of Python's basic indented statement structure, which

Re: [Python-3000] Add a standard GUI system

"Bill Janssen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:06Apr28.101121pdt."58641"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com... >> PyGUI doesn't have nearly the market >> penetration (into the Python GUI toolkit area) to justify its inclusion >> into the python standard library. > > Doesn't matter. Putting it int

Re: [Python-3000] Add a standard GUI system

"Giovanni Bajo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > There is simply no good enough solution for a GUI. There are far too many > advanced different libraries with different wrappers. >> The generic solution is better package fetching, such as apparently done >> (I >> ha

Re: [Python-3000] revamping the io stack, part 2

"Brett Cannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > See, this is what I am worried about. I **really** like not having to > figure out what I need to do to read by lines from a file. If the > FileStream object had an __iter__ that did the proper wrapping with > LinedBuf

Re: [Python-3000] in-out parameters

"Rudy Rudolph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > One thing that has always bothered me about Python is the lack of in-out > parameters. Python is such a wonderful object-oriented language, but it > lacks > this feature that nearly every language has. Maybe we can fi

Re: [Python-3000] Add a standard GUI system

"Bill Janssen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote a reply to my objection to his GUI proposal -- that makes the proposal more sensible to me. I see you putting forth four propositions. My wording of them is: 1. Python 3 should (still) have a standard lib GUI system. 2a. TK/Tkinter should not be grandf

Re: [Python-3000] sets in P3K?

"Nick Coghlan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you went for a syntactic notation for the empty set, I'd want to use > {} and > make the empty dict {:}, by that idea didn't even make your list of > alternatives :) Those are my favorites also. The 2.x -> 3.0 edit

Re: [Python-3000] PyGUI in Py3K stdlib, more details

"Stefan Rank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > There is absolutely no sensible reason at all, for a gui frame to be of > a fixed size! > None. > More precisely: the concept of a maximum size (except screen limits) for > a frame is asking for user dissatisfaction. > 'U

Re: [Python-3000] Requirements for a standard GUI library

"Talin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > there. I will, however, list what I believe are the qualities that make > an API great: > > - It should follow the UI conventions of the specific platform that > it is running on. Ideally, the user should not be able to tell t

Re: [Python-3000] Requirements for a standard GUI library

"Greg Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Terry Reedy wrote: > >> -the ability to ignore platforn standards and give an app a unique look >> and >> feel. A start on this, for instance, is being able to give dialog box

Re: [Python-3000] Requirements for a standard GUI library

"Travis E. Oliphant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Not much different at all except in breadth. I like the idea of PyGUI > (it doesn't cover all backends, yet though). Sorry I wasn't more > clear. The only thing I would wish different is to get rid of the PyGTK

Re: [Python-3000] why interfaces shouldn't be trusted

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > You seem to be still under the influence of the type-safety mafia, who > want to make you believe that with enough type-checking you can > prevent all bugs (though they don't believe it themselves). > > Python alread

Re: [Python-3000] State of the object system

"Michael Chermside" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > However, this is more of a practice than a prohibition... it IS > possible to modify existing classes in Python. If the class is defined/written in Python. > Unfortunately, for implementation reasons you can't mod

Re: [Python-3000] stdlib reorganization

"Jim Jewett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> "Steven Bethard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > I think that having a package level that exactly matches the divisions >> > in the Library Reference (http://docs.python.org/lib/lib.html) would >> > be great. > > Are ther

Re: [Python-3000] packages in the stdlib

"Brett Cannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Well, personally I would like to clean up the stdlib, but I don't want to >make it >too lean since the whole "Batteries Included" thing is handy. Definitely as to both. > As for sanctioned libraries that don't come in

Re: [Python-3000] packages in the stdlib

"Aaron Bingham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I'm confused. As far as I can see, a reserved prefix (the "py" or > "stdlib" package others have mentioned) is the only reliable way to > avoid naming conflicts with 3rd-party packages with a growing standard > library

Re: [Python-3000] packages in the stdlib

"Aaron Bingham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >[me] >>For the latter (2 above), I think those who want such mostly agree in >>principle on a mostly two-level hierarchy with about 10-20 short names >>for >>the top-level, using the lib docs as a starting point for the

Re: [Python-3000] packages in the stdlib

"Ronald Oussoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >I'm -lots on a package named "misc". That's really poor naming, >almost as bad as "util". Misc is the "we don't know what to do with >these"-category and completely unobvious for anyone that doesn't >already know where

Re: [Python-3000] iostack, continued

"tomer filiba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > thanks for all the comments so far, they have already proved > very helpful and furtile. I think you meant fertile (as opposed to futile ;-) ___ Python-3000 mailing list Py

Re: [Python-3000] iostack, continued

"tomer filiba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > instead of doing > if not s.getsockopt(SOL_SOCK, SOCK_REBINDADDR): >s.setsockopt(SOL_SOCK, SOCK_REBINDADDR, 1) > > you can just do > if not s.rebind_addr: >s.rebind_addr = True > > which is much easier (both to m

Re: [Python-3000] Lexical Scoping and Javascript

"Greg Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Talin wrote: > >> As you can see, there are a lot of features that are being considered >> for inclusion in Javascript that have been pretty much copied verbatim >> from Python. > > If Javascript and Python continue to con

Re: [Python-3000] set literals

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Unfortunately we couldn't redefine <=, <, >=, > to mean various >> > subset/superset tests without backwards incompatibilities (but does >> > anyone care? >> >> You mean those are defined *now*? I'm trying to figu

Re: [Python-3000] Detecting conflicts in dict displays

"Steven Bethard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On 7/10/06, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Currently, this is valid: >> >> a = {'a': 1, 'a': 2} >> print a # {'a': 2} >> >> I wonder if we shouldn't make this a run-time error instead. > > If it

Re: [Python-3000] Cross-interpreter FFI for Python 3000?

For those as ignorant as I was, FFI does not here mean Friendly File Interface Fauna and Flora International Family Firm Institute Forsvarets forskningsinstitutt Film Finances, Inc. Financial Freedom Institute Focus on the Family Institute ... (all but the first from Google) but Foreign Function I

Re: [Python-3000] Python/C++ question

"Georg Brandl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Guido van Rossum wrote: >> Implementation Language >> == >> >> Python 3000 will be implemented in C, and the implementation will be >> derived as an evolution of the Python 2 code base. This reflects my >

Re: [Python-3000] raise with traceback?

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I wonder if "raise ValueError" should still be allowed (as equivalent > to "raise ValueError()") or that it should be disallowed. +1 for disallow. raise is a simple rule to remember. Having VE == VE() in certain

Re: [Python-3000] [Python-Dev] What should the focus for 2.6 be?

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On 8/21/06, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> When >> everyone has to rewrite their code, they are going to ask, "Why don't I >> just stick with the maintenance 2.x? It's going to be maintained for a >>

Re: [Python-3000] [Python-Dev] What should the focus for 2.6 be?

"Josiah Carlson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > The intent of my post was to say that all of us want Py3k to succeed, I should hope that we all do. > but I believe that in order for it to succeed that breakage from the 2.x > series should be gradual, in a similar

Re: [Python-3000] Droping find/rfind?

"Brian Holmes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Even after reading Terry Reedy's arguments, I don't see why we need to > >remove this option. Since this is my first post in this current thread, you either meant someone else or are remembering my posts about in- and

Re: [Python-3000] Droping find/rfind?

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > But buffer() is on the kick-list for Py3k right now. Perhaps the new > bytes object will make it possible to write the first example above > differently; bytes will be mutable which changes everything. I never learn

Re: [Python-3000] sort vs order (was: What should the focus for 2.6be?)

"Ron Adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jim Jewett wrote: > >> The end result is that even if I find a solution that works, I think >> it will be common (and bug-prone) enough that it really ought to be in >> the language, or at least the standard library -- as it

Re: [Python-3000] Making more effective use of slice objects in Py3k

"Nick Coghlan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I think an enriched slicing model that allows sequence views to be > expressed > easily as "this slice of this sequence" would allow this to be dealt with > cleanly, without requiring every sequence to provide a corres

Re: [Python-3000] Cheeseshop

"Greg Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote: >> The "Cheese Shop" name may reflect the >> proper cultural bias toward Monty Python, but it's a sure way to >> alienate >> people by presenting the hard work of the community under a completely

Re: [Python-3000] Draft PEP for outer scopes

"Andrew McNamara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Guido wrote: >>> My personal preference is still to abuse 'global' instead of adding a >>> new, ugly keyword. That would make the syntax for global and nonlocal >>> completely identical. :-) But I seem to be alone in

Re: [Python-3000] A plea for anonymous functions

"Antoine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> def handle_response(record): >> format_expanded(li.content, response.related) >> server.get_synset_link(handle_response) > > As already mentioned, the problem with this idiom is that code that is > execute

Re: [Python-3000] A plea for anonymous functions

"Terry Reedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > *To me* you have this backwards. The function-object creation code is > executed *before* the call that passes that object. This is true whether > it is placed before, as above, or nested

Re: [Python-3000] __nonzero__ vs. __bool__

"Brett Cannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Why can't the fallback usage just pass the return value from __len__ to bool() (forget the C function name) and return that result? It's just like doing:: def bool(obj): try: return obj.__bool__()

Re: [Python-3000] Abilities / Interfaces

"Kay Schluehr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Seems like we need more formal procedures for writing test than > application code. This also solves the problem of expense of > "verification" of typeclasses/concepts/abilities that need to be done > just once for a cla

Re: [Python-3000] versionadded/versionchanged in doc

"Neal Norwitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > What do we want to do with the current versionadded/versionchanged > markups in the doc for 3k? Should we remove all references to 1.x > changes? all 2.x changes? Keep them? all of them? > > Given we are trying to cl

Re: [Python-3000] Status of True, False, bool type

"Mike Orr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Huh? 'True == 1' is a "feature"? '16 + (0 == 0)' being illegal is a | "Javaism"? Would somebody care to explain this? It's acceptable that | 2 is true but not True? Why do we need 1 for True at all if we have | True? S

[Python-3000] List quiet? or gmane broken?

Has this list really had no posts for 6 days? Or is the gmane bridge broken? Terry ___ Python-3000 mailing list Python-3000@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000

Re: [Python-3000] What does the "+" mode do?

"hashcollision" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |A quick question: | What does the "+" mode do? I couldn't find much on google (except that it is | called "updating"). This is a question for comp.lang.python, not the developers' lists. ___

Re: [Python-3000] Set literal

"Nick Coghlan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | More completely: | | () # empty tuple | (1,)# 1 item tuple | (1,2) # 2 item tuple 1,# 1 item tuple, no parens needed, trailing comma mandatory 1,2 # 2 item tuple, no parens nee

Re: [Python-3000] Set literal

"Christian Heimes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Greg Ewing wrote: | | Personally I'm more than happy to trade set comprehensions for optimized | frozen set literals. My code has more 'item in fixed_set' than sets. I | can't remember a project where I've used froz

Re: [Python-3000] RELEASED Python 2.6a1 and 3.0a3

"Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ As of 4:50 PM EST, the links to Windows installers give 404 File Not Found. I gather that they are still in process, and notice th

Re: [Python-3000] Using *a for packing in lists and other places

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Thomas Wouters suggests some new syntax: I see this as two suggestions: 1. Complete the extension of the validity of *expression syntax from function call/definition to expression/assignment. 2. Give *expression a

Re: [Python-3000] Using *a for packing in lists and other places

"Thomas Wouters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | | > | > | Also, yielding everything from an iterator: | > | | > | >>> def flatten(it

Re: [Python-3000] Using *a for packing in lists and other places

"Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Dnia 16-03-2008, N o godzinie 18:20 -0400, Terry Reedy pisze: | | > The rule I suggested is 'execute the statement the same *as if* the | > iterable items had been wr

Re: [Python-3000] u'text' as an alias for 'text'?

"Christian Heimes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Thomas Wouters schrieb: | The __future__ docs say "No feature description will ever be deleted | from __future__." | | ever is a very strong word and I expect Python 3.x to follow the rule. I was tempted to suggest

Re: [Python-3000] Dict literal bytecode

"Greg Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Marcin ‘Qrczak’ Kowalczyk wrote: > What about lists? I guess (haven't checked) that they are made like > tuples. I always thought they were built one item at a time, but I was wrong (see below). So there doesn't seem to be

Re: [Python-3000] Dict literal bytecode

"Greg Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Marcin ‘Qrczak’ Kowalczyk wrote: > What about lists? I guess (haven't checked) that they are made like > tuples. I always thought they were built one item at a time, but I was wrong (see below). So there doesn't seem to be

Re: [Python-3000] Types and classes

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | All I really mean to fix is to standardize the terminology, I have recently been thinking about how to present/explain the basics of Python3 to someone with no experience of Python1/2 or any need to know about the

Re: [Python-3000] Types and classes

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:58 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > All I really mean to fix is to standardize the terminology, especially > > in repr(). > > So you don't want to be called a wimp anymo

Re: [Python-3000] Types and classes

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |> Could not find this in tracker, so http://bugs.python.org/issue2565 | | And thanks to Martin for making it so. | | As a follow-up, what do people think of making the str() of a class | return just the thing between

Re: [Python-3000] Types and classes

"Greg Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Terry Reedy wrote: | | > As in | > | >>>>print(type(3)) | > | > int # instead of | | I have the same feeling there -- the only time I'm | likely to be deliberately printin

Re: [Python-3000] Types and classes

"Greg Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | There's another reason it bothers me. If a string like | "" turns up in otherwise normal output, it's | a fairly clear indication that I've somehow ended up | printing something that was never meant to be printed. Which t

Re: [Python-3000] Recursive str

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | > Guido van Rossum writes: | > > In Py3k we may be able to do something else though -- instead of | > > insisting on ASCII we c

Re: [Python-3000] Binding builtin function to class

"Haoyu Bai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Hello, | | I'm a GSoC student working on SWIG's Python 3 support. When doing | experiment on Python 3's new features, the different behavior between | binding 'function' and 'builtin_function_or_method' confused me. | | As

Re: [Python-3000] range() issues

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | BTW, if you're looking for a term describing range() that's better | than set or sequence, how about "series"? It's a mathematical word | that matches pretty exactly. (More accurately, I believe it's an | algebraic s

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3108 - stdlib reorg/cleanup

A few comments: Intro to delete: could point out here that anyone who really wants a deleted module can/should update it to work with 3.0 and make available through PyPI. - obsolete/popen2 ... "replaces them." 'them' should be 'it': any other popenx modules seem to be gone alread

Re: [Python-3000] range() issues

"Alexander Belopolsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | .. | > The cost of the extra functionality: writing it, reviewing it, adding | > unittests, documenting it, maintaining it, making

Re: [Python-3000] Displaying strings containing unicode escapes

""Martin v. Löwis"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |> > I think "standard repertoire based on Unicode" may be confusing the issue. | > | > By "standard repertoire" I mean that all Pythons will show the same | > characters the same way, while "based on Unicode" is in

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

As I understood this,one needs a diff to comment on. I can imagine wanting, or wanting others, to be able to comment on a file or lines of files without making a fake diff (of the file versus itself or a blank file). Then only one column would be needed. I presume the current site is for trial p

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

"Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | > As I understood this,one needs a diff to comment on. | > I can imagine wanting, or wanting others, to be able t

Re: [Python-3000] Displaying strings containing unicode escapes

"Nick Coghlan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Terry Reedy wrote: | > I think standard Python should somehow have two options: escape everything | > but ASCII (for unambuguity and old display systems) and escape nothing that | > is poten

[Python-3000] PEP 8 Style Guide and Python 3

At least one of the style recommendations in PEP 8 -- use class rather that string exceptions -- is obsolete in Py 3. And there are others, and perhaps others where the spirit of the recommendation is the same but details are different. For a new Python 3 programmer who does not need or want t

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