On behalf of the EuroPython 2009 organisation it is my privilege and
honour to announce that EuroPython 2009 is open for registration!
EuroPython is the conference for the communities around Python,
including the Django, Zope and Plone communities.
This year's conference will be held in Birming
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Terry Reedy wrote:
As for the actual feature, I don't think it should hold up releases.
Fair enough.
Given that the purpose of 2.7 is
a) maintenance of existing code (which can include minor new features
for existing facilities), and
b) easing conversion of code to 3.1
I am
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:36:32 -0800, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Nick Coghlan]
>> The examples in the PEP used 'odict' (until recently), but the patch
>> was for OrderedDict.
>
> As an experiment, try walking down the hall asking a few programmers who
> aren't in this conversion what they think co
Amaury Forgeot d'Arc gmail.com> writes:
>
> This should be fixed with r70114.
Indeed, thanks!
Regards
Antoine.
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Benjamin Peterson python.org> writes:
>
> I have been talking with Antoine about io in C implementation. We
> would like to merge the branch before Saturday, so it can get some
> real world testing. io-c, however, hasn't received much through
> review. Would somebody have time to go through a dif
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>> [GvR]
>>> *Maybe* the "built-in status" should guide the
>>> capitalization, so only built-in types are lowercase (str, int, dict
>>> etc.).
>> That makes sense.
>>
>>
>>> Anyway, it seems the collections module
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Quick question? Is PEP 8 still current for what is being done in Py3.x?
> I just took a quick look and it says:
>
> Class Names
>
> Almost without exception, class names use the CapWords convention.
> Classes for internal use ha
Quick question? Is PEP 8 still current for what is being done in Py3.x?
I just took a quick look and it says:
Class Names
Almost without exception, class names use the CapWords convention.
Classes for internal use have a leading underscore in addition.
- Original Message
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 00:47, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
> Hi Amaury,
>
> Le mardi 03 mars 2009 à 00:39 +0100, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc a écrit :
>> >
>> > I'm trying the current py3k under a Windows virtual machine (with VS
>> > Express
>> > 2008), and the interpreter crashes in test_strftime in test_d
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [GvR]
>>
>> *Maybe* the "built-in status" should guide the
>> capitalization, so only built-in types are lowercase (str, int, dict
>> etc.).
>
> That makes sense.
>
>
>> Anyway, it seems the collections module in particular is already
>> i
Hi Amaury,
Le mardi 03 mars 2009 à 00:39 +0100, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc a écrit :
> >
> > I'm trying the current py3k under a Windows virtual machine (with VS Express
> > 2008), and the interpreter crashes in test_strftime in test_datetime.py.
> > Has anyone been getting something like that?
> >
> >
Hi,
Guido van Rossum python.org> writes:
> Anyway, it seems the collections module in particular is already
> internally inconsistent -- NamedTuple vs. defaultdict. In a sense
> defaultdict is the odd one out here, since these are things you import
> from some module, they're not built-in. Maybe
[GvR]
*Maybe* the "built-in status" should guide the
capitalization, so only built-in types are lowercase (str, int, dict
etc.).
That makes sense.
Anyway, it seems the collections module in particular is already
internally inconsistent -- NamedTuple vs. defaultdict.
FWIW, namedtuple() is a
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 00:19, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I'm trying the current py3k under a Windows virtual machine (with VS Express
> 2008), and the interpreter crashes in test_strftime in test_datetime.py.
> Has anyone been getting something like that?
>
> (not being a Windows
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately PEP 8 never really took off naming-wise, so we're mostly
>> following
>> the "reuse the naming scheme from existing code in the same module" rule,
>> and I
>> think there lowercase wins, thanks to defaultdict.
>
> Traditio
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Hash: SHA1
On Feb 27, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
Where's a good place for this? I'm thinking three bullets under
"Core Development" on this page: http://wiki.python.org/moin/
I've now moved the Bazaar instructions to the wiki.
See
* http://wik
Hello everybody,
I'm trying the current py3k under a Windows virtual machine (with VS Express
2008), and the interpreter crashes in test_strftime in test_datetime.py.
Has anyone been getting something like that?
(not being a Windows user, it's a bit hard for me to investigate what's wrong)
Regar
Unfortunately PEP 8 never really took off naming-wise, so we're mostly following
the "reuse the naming scheme from existing code in the same module" rule, and I
think there lowercase wins, thanks to defaultdict.
Traditionally, the all lowercase name referred to a C type. The other classes
in
2009/3/2 Armin Ronacher :
> Hi,
>
> Raymond Hettinger rcn.com> writes:
>> When we use the class, we typically only spell-out the constructor
>> once while actually using the returned
>> object many times. So,
>> have we really saved any typing?
> I'm fine with the typed out name as well, but I st
Hi everyone!
The first alpha of 3.1 will be coming out this Saturday, so I would
appreciate you not breaking anything too egregiously. :) If you think
some thing should hold up the release, mark the issue a release
blocker or contact me by email or "gutworth" on #python-dev.
I have been talking w
Hi,
Raymond Hettinger rcn.com> writes:
> When we use the class, we typically only spell-out the constructor
> once while actually using the returned
> object many times. So,
> have we really saved any typing?
I'm fine with the typed out name as well, but I still would prefer lowercase to
stay c
> Is it a class or function? What does it do? Can the English as second
> language folks guess what the o stands for? Is it a builtin or pure
> python? My guess is that the experiment will be informative.
I'll do that tomorrow (if I manage to remember). My guess is that
"ordered dictionary" is
Raymond Hettinger rcn.com> writes:
>
> [Nick Coghlan]
> > The examples in the PEP used 'odict' (until recently), but the patch was
> > for OrderedDict.
>
> As an experiment, try walking down the hall asking a few programmers who
aren't in this conversion what they
> think
> collections.odict()
[Nick Coghlan]
The examples in the PEP used 'odict' (until recently), but the patch was
for OrderedDict.
As an experiment, try walking down the hall asking a few programmers who aren't in this conversion what they think
collections.odict() is?
Is it a class or function? What does it do? Can
> Would whoever is responsible for IDLE please take a look at the patches
> I submitted for Python 2 & 3 [tracker IDs 5233 and 5234 respectively].
> These change the behavior of IDLE so that IDLESTARTUP or PYTHONSTARTUP
> files are executed with each restart. This allows loading frequently
> used p
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>> /bikeshedding
>
> Yes. Also we need to paint it green with pink polka dots :-)
Or should that be pink with green polka dots? ;)
Cheers,
Nick.
--
Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> +1 for odict. Somehow I thought that was the name proposed by the PEP. :-(
The examples in the PEP used 'odict' (until recently), but the patch was
for OrderedDict.
I don't personally mind either way.
Cheers,
Nick.
--
Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisba
/bikeshedding
Yes. Also we need to paint it green with pink polka dots :-)
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2009/3/2 Raymond Hettinger :
> My preference is OrderedDict.
> That says that it is a pure python class like Counter, UserDict, UserList,
> MutableMapping and other collections classes.
I don't understand why implementation language should have any
significance in naming. Classes should be able to
On 02/03/2009 22:28, Georg Brandl wrote:
We're already quite inconsistent with type name casing in the collections
module, so it wouldn't matter so much. (Though I'd find symmetry with
defaultdict pleasing as well.)
Since the odict naming is already so prevalent in the wild, it seems to
me li
My preference is OrderedDict.
That says that it is a pure python class like Counter, UserDict, UserList,
MutableMapping and other collections classes.
It is clear and explicit in its intention and doesn't make you try to remember
what the o in odict stands for.
Raymond
Steve Holden holdenweb.com> writes:
> Surely that's just a thinko in the subject line? The PEP specifies
> "ordered dictionary" and nobody has been talking about "directories".
Actually, the initial version of the PEP had that typo in the topic. Guess I
copy pasted wrong again:
http://www.goog
Guido van Rossum python.org> writes:
> +1 for odict. Somehow I thought that was the name proposed by the PEP.
It originally was, Raymond wanted to change it. I would still vote for odict if
that's still possible :)
Regards,
Armin
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2009/3/2 Armin Ronacher :
> Hi,
>
> Georg Brandl gmx.net> writes:
>
>> We're already quite inconsistent with type name casing in the collections
>> module, so it wouldn't matter so much. (Though I'd find symmetry with
>> defaultdict pleasing as well.)
> We either have the way to be consistent wit
Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2009/3/1 Armin Ronacher :
[...]
>> The corresponding issue in the tracker: http://bugs.python.org/issue5397
>> Link to the PEP: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0372/
>>
>> Anything else that should be done?
>
> Have you considered naming? I would think that "odict" or
At 09:14 PM 3/2/2009 +, Paul Moore wrote:
2009/3/2 Jeffrey Yasskin :
> I tend to think it's a bug in ABCs. You seem to have thought of
> several possible ways to fix it, and I don't have strong preferences
> between them.
I've discussed ways of fixing simplegeneric, but not of fixing the
iss
Hi,
Georg Brandl gmx.net> writes:
> We're already quite inconsistent with type name casing in the collections
> module, so it wouldn't matter so much. (Though I'd find symmetry with
> defaultdict pleasing as well.)
We either have the way to be consistent with defaultdict and dict or with
Counte
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Benjamin Peterson schrieb:
>> 2009/3/1 Armin Ronacher :
>>> Hi everybody,
>>>
>>> PEP 372 was modified so that it provides a simpler API (only the dict API
>>> to be exact) and it was decided to start with a Python-only implementation
>>> and r
Hi,
Guido van Rossum python.org> writes:
> This sounds fair. Note that dict.__eq__ actually returns
> NotImplemented if not isinstance(other, dict) so you could tighten the
> test to isinstance(other, dict) if you wanted to.
I'm actually very happy with that decision. The original PEP was doing
Benjamin Peterson schrieb:
> 2009/3/1 Armin Ronacher :
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> PEP 372 was modified so that it provides a simpler API (only the dict API
>> to be exact) and it was decided to start with a Python-only implementation
>> and replace it with a C version later if necessary.
>>
>> Annotate
Would whoever is responsible for IDLE please take a look at the
patches I submitted for Python 2 & 3 [tracker IDs 5233 and 5234
respectively]. These change the behavior of IDLE so that IDLESTARTUP
or PYTHONSTARTUP files are executed with each restart. This allows
loading frequently used package
2009/3/2 Jeffrey Yasskin :
> I tend to think it's a bug in ABCs. You seem to have thought of
> several possible ways to fix it, and I don't have strong preferences
> between them.
I've discussed ways of fixing simplegeneric, but not of fixing the
issue with ABCs. I'm not sure the ABC "issue" is fi
Terry Reedy wrote:
>>> As for the actual feature, I don't think it should hold up releases.
>>
>> Fair enough.
>
> Given that the purpose of 2.7 is
> a) maintenance of existing code (which can include minor new features
> for existing facilities), and
> b) easing conversion of code to 3.1
> I am p
2009/3/1 Armin Ronacher :
> Hi everybody,
>
> PEP 372 was modified so that it provides a simpler API (only the dict API
> to be exact) and it was decided to start with a Python-only implementation
> and replace it with a C version later if necessary.
>
> Annotated changes from earlier versions of t
[GvR]
This sounds fair. Note that dict.__eq__ actually returns
NotImplemented if not isinstance(other, dict) so you could tighten the
test to isinstance(other, dict) if you wanted to.
Okay. Done deal.
Raymond
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On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Compromise?
>
> def __eq__(self, other):
> if isinstance(other, OrderedDict):
> return all(map(operator.eq, self.items(), other.items()))
> if isinstance(other, Mapping):
> return dict.__eq__(self, other
Paul Moore wrote:
> 2009/3/1 Nick Coghlan :
>> As much as I'd like to get a simple generic implementation into
>> functools, the lack of support for ABCs still bothers me (despite my
>> last post about that on the tracker item). I'd be a -0 on it going in as
>> is, but if someone can figure out a c
Compromise?
def __eq__(self, other):
if isinstance(other, OrderedDict):
return all(map(operator.eq, self.items(), other.items()))
if isinstance(other, Mapping):
return dict.__eq__(self, other)
return NotImplemented # Give other a chance; defaults to
> This strict interpretation is violated all the time in OO programming;
> consider e.g. the common overriding of object.__repr__. (In fact, even
> the definition of dict.__eq__ overriding object.__eq__ would validate
> it.) AFAIK a more common use of the term in OO languages is about
> signatures
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Me]
>>
>> In this case, Armin wants to be able to pass in an ordered dictionary to
>> functions that weren't designed with ordered dicts in mind (config parser,
>> json/yaml parsers, nose, unittest, etc.). Those functions should be able
[Me]
In this case, Armin wants to be able to pass in an ordered dictionary to functions that weren't designed with ordered dicts in
mind (config parser, json/yaml parsers, nose, unittest, etc.). Those functions should be able to assume that all the usual
dictionary properties are still true. I
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>> But you'll have to convince me,
>
> Okay, here's one stab at it. If it doesn't take, I give in.
> ISTM, either way is right depending on your point of view and what
> you're trying do at the time. My judgment tips in favor of not
> spe
But you'll have to convince me,
Okay, here's one stab at it. If it doesn't take, I give in.
ISTM, either way is right depending on your point of view and what
you're trying do at the time. My judgment tips in favor of not
specializing the __eq__ method. But it is not lost on me why
one might
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
> s...@pobox.com wrote:
>>
>> >> Indeed. I'd be willing to grant you checkin privileges for
>> SpamBayes
>> >> simply because because Christian recognized you and you seem willing
>> >> to roll up your sleeves. Do you do Windows?
>>
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
> ...
> More generally, there is NO WAY to determine the list of classes for
> which issubclass(C, x) is true.
>
> This could be considered a limitation of, or a bug in, ABCs, I don't
> have a particular opinion on that, but it does mean that no co
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
> [Antoine Pitrou]
>>
>> You seem to imply that it is more important for __eq__ to work intuitively
>> between a non-OrderedDict and an OrderedDict, than it is to work
>> intuitively
>> between two OrderedDicts.
>
> Yes. When Armin and I
[Antoine Pitrou]
You seem to imply that it is more important for __eq__ to work intuitively
between a non-OrderedDict and an OrderedDict, than it is to work intuitively
between two OrderedDicts.
Yes. When Armin and I worked through this, it became clear that
he had multiple use cases where or
Raymond Hettinger rcn.com> writes:
> Completely unrelated. The original test passed because the arbitrarily
> ordered data in the regular dict happened to match the order added in
> a regular dict because I didn't shuffle the keys.
Well, I may be mistaken, but it seems your test_copying (in od5.
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Hash: SHA1
Raymond,
+1 on adding this to the stdlib. I especially like the idea of being
able to use an ordered dict in a class's namespace. I might be able
use something like that to make my enum package simpler (which
currently requires assignment of
2009/3/2 P.J. Eby :
> By the way guys, are you aware of:
>
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/simplegeneric
Yes. It has been mentioned, and I am certainly aware of both it and
RuleDispatch.
> There might be a bit of name confusion by exposing pkgutils' internal
> simplegeneric there. Perhaps it shou
[Antoine Pitrou]
Given you were bitten by it in your own unit tests (the "eval(repr()) does not
maintain ordering" problem pointed by Georg),
Completely unrelated. The original test passed because the arbitrarily
ordered data in the regular dict happened to match the order added in
a regular
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 13:25, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Cesare Di Mauro wrote:
>> However, they are correct timestamps for Windows files, so I think that at
>> least
>> the API on posixmodule.c should not fail when working with them. I don't
>> know if
>> there's a way to handle them correctly.
>
>
Paul Moore wrote:
2009/3/2 Benjamin Peterson :
2009/3/1 Paul Moore :
Is it worth getting simplegeneric exposed in 3.1
(http://bugs.python.org/issue5135)? If it's going to be in 2.7, I'd
like to see it hit 3.1. The patch is against trunk (for 2.7) at the
moment, I'm not sure what the process wou
At 10:41 AM 3/2/2009 +, Paul Moore wrote:
2009/3/2 Benjamin Peterson :
> 2009/3/1 Paul Moore :
>>
>> Is it worth getting simplegeneric exposed in 3.1
>> (http://bugs.python.org/issue5135)? If it's going to be in 2.7, I'd
>> like to see it hit 3.1. The patch is against trunk (for 2.7) at the
>
s...@pobox.com wrote:
>> Indeed. I'd be willing to grant you checkin privileges for SpamBayes
>> simply because because Christian recognized you and you seem willing
>> to roll up your sleeves. Do you do Windows?
Chris> The irony that Thunderbird put this in my spam folder bas
>> Indeed. I'd be willing to grant you checkin privileges for SpamBayes
>> simply because because Christian recognized you and you seem willing
>> to roll up your sleeves. Do you do Windows?
Chris> The irony that Thunderbird put this in my spam folder based on
Chris> its he
ramesh nayak wrote:
> Dear Sir,
> I have a fortran-95 code for my own mathematical application .
>
> and also I have the *.exe fiel for the same. when I double click it , it
> will run.
>
> I want to make a GUI for it by using TKinter and run the program through
> the button on GUI.
>
> Could yo
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 04:23, Vaibhav Mallya wrote:
> I haven't seen a lot of discussion on this - maybe I didn't search hard
> enough - but what are people's thoughts on including BeautifulSoup in
> stdlib? It's small, fast, and pretty widely-liked by the people who know
> about it. Someone ment
2009/3/2 toks teewey :
> Hello,
>
> I want to ask if it is possible to link a program written in python to a
> database and also on how
> to make a program written in python executable.
This list is for the development of Python, not language questions.
Please mail python-l...@python.org
--
Re
Hello,
I want to ask if it is possible to link a program written in python to a
database and also on how
to make a program written in python executable.
Regards
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I haven't seen a lot of discussion on this - maybe I didn't search hard
enough - but what are people's thoughts on including BeautifulSoup in
stdlib? It's small, fast, and pretty widely-liked by the people who know
about it. Someone mentioned that web scraping needs are infrequent. My
argument
Dear Sir,
I have a fortran-95 code for my own mathematical application .
and also I have the *.exe fiel for the same. when I double click it , it will
run.
I want to make a GUI for it by using TKinter and run the program through the
button on GUI.
Could you please send the syntax for the same?
Raymond Hettinger rcn.com> writes:
>
> Guido, I'm recommending this PEP for acceptance.
Given you were bitten by it in your own unit tests (the "eval(repr()) does not
maintain ordering" problem pointed by Georg), I think it would be better to
reconsider the current __eq__ behaviour, and make it
2009/3/1 Nick Coghlan :
> As much as I'd like to get a simple generic implementation into
> functools, the lack of support for ABCs still bothers me (despite my
> last post about that on the tracker item). I'd be a -0 on it going in as
> is, but if someone can figure out a clever way of supporting
Cesare Di Mauro wrote:
> However, they are correct timestamps for Windows files, so I think that at
> least
> the API on posixmodule.c should not fail when working with them. I don't know
> if
> there's a way to handle them correctly.
Use 64-bit time values (which is highly unlikely to ever be t
s...@pobox.com wrote:
Christian> CPython has a stricter policy than most other Python related
Christian> projects.
Indeed. I'd be willing to grant you checkin privileges for SpamBayes simply
because because Christian recognized you and you seem willing to roll up
your sleeves. Do you do
On Mar, 02 2009 at 00:13AM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 23:04, Cesare Di Mauro
> wrote:
>> Running the test suite with Python 2.6.1 32 bit (compiled in DEBUG mode
>> with Visual Studio Express Edition 2008) on Vista x64, I've got an assert
>> error:
>>
>> tes
2009/3/2 Benjamin Peterson :
> 2009/3/1 Paul Moore :
>>
>> Is it worth getting simplegeneric exposed in 3.1
>> (http://bugs.python.org/issue5135)? If it's going to be in 2.7, I'd
>> like to see it hit 3.1. The patch is against trunk (for 2.7) at the
>> moment, I'm not sure what the process would be
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