On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 14:33, Laurence Rowe l...@lrowe.co.uk wrote:
Could this manual work be cut down if there was a version of 2to3 that
targeted the subset of the language that is compatible with both 2 and 3?
Not really, but a 2to6, ie something that tries to keep Python 2
compatibility by
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:38, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Michael Foord
fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk wrote:
More specifically six [1] is the name of Benjamin Peterson's support
package to help write code that works on both 2 and 3. So the idea is that
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 13:15, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote:
Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org writes:
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Cedric Sodhi man...@gmx.net wrote:
IF YOU THINK YOU MUST REPLY SOMETHING WITTY, ITERATE THAT THIS HAD
BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE, REPLY THAT
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 03:53, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
Are you saying that with that future import, b... is still a Unicode
literal?
If I said that, this is not what I was trying to say. :-)
//Lennart
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On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 04:34, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
Sorry, I don't understand this. What does it mean to be str in both
versions? And why would you want that?
It means that it's a str, that is a string of bytes, in Python 2, and
a str, that is a string of Unicode characters, in
Slightly OT:
The slowness of running 2to3 during install time can be fixed by not
doing so, but instead running it when the distribution is created,
including both Python 2 and Python 3 code in the distribution.
http://python3porting.com/2to3.html#distribution-section
There are no tools that
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 17:38, Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org wrote:
When running 2to3 from a setup.py script, does it run on the whole
codebase or only files that are found newer by the make-like
timestamp-based dependency system?
Only on the ones that are newer. But since at install time,
from future import unicode_literals is my fault. I'm sorry. It's
pretty useless. It was suggested by somebody and I then supported it's
adding, instead of allowing u'' which I suggested. But it doesn't
work.
One reason is that you need to be able to say This should be str in
Python 2, and binary
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 17:18, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc amaur...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
2011/11/9 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org
I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and
PEPs
are as official as it gets 'round here.
Do we need to designate a release manager?
I
+1 for env or sandbox or something else with box in it.
pythonbox? envbox? boxenv?
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I'm not sure why you would say this isn't allowed already...
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On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 00:15, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
On Jun 02, 2011, at 12:57 PM, Glenn Linderman wrote:
On 6/2/2011 12:01 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Bingo. That's why. (Though you are missing some colons in your examples.:-)
--Guido
You operate as a good Python compiler :)
fixed for Python 3.2, although it can still
happen if you compare two types that both use the total_ordering
decorator. See http://bugs.python.org/issue10042 .
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. It could be good to find a OS/2 and OpenVMS
developer mailing list as well, and post it there.
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Hasn't it always been like that? I tried with Python 2.3 now and it's
the same. I have no memory of that actually changing an existing
variable in any version of Python I've used. More testing turns out
that this works:
- print lv is , lv
(Pdb) lv=2
(Pdb) c
lv is 2
While this seem to reset is:
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 07:54, Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote:
Lennart is missing that you just need to use the same encoding
+ surrogateescape (or stick with bytes) for decoding the byte strings that
you are comparing.
You lost me here. I need to do this for what?
//Lennart
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 23:17, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
I think the whole blacklist example is artificial. The string in the
blacklist is actually a Chinese hello greeting, so it surely isn't
the string being blacklisted. For proper blacklisting, you would likely
use substring
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 22:40, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
The lesson here seems to be if you have to use blacklists, and you
use unicode strings for those blacklists, also make sure the string
you compare with doesn't have surrogates.
For that matter, what happens with combining
The lesson here seems to be if you have to use blacklists, and you
use unicode strings for those blacklists, also make sure the string
you compare with doesn't have surrogates.
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On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 03:42, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
5. The parallel evolution of the 2.x and 3.x line meant that the first
version of 2.x with the relevant warning was released only ~7 months
or so before the version of 3.2 where the API was removed
An additional issue that
On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 00:23, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
People should retest their stuff with each micro
(bugfix) release anyway.
That would be creating an insane burden on library developers.
Besides, I've so far not have things break between micro releases, it
must be very unusual.
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 09:20, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
In fact, since the deprecation in the Python 2 line happened in 2.7,
the deprecation period of this API in practice was between July 3rd
2010 and February 20 2011. That is a deprecation period of somewhat
longer than
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 19:22, Reid Kleckner reid.kleck...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't know how your code works, but handling either type from C
seems very straightforward to me. You can simply use #ifdef
Py_COBJECT_H to see if the cobject.h header was pulled into Python.h.
Similarly for
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:02, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
If you actually had been supporting 2.x and 3.x in parallel for the last two
years, you would have had a deprecation period of 19 months
and two releases. It's only if you are now migrating from 2 to 3
that you notice the
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 15:39, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
Of course you could have. You could have added a version of your code
that uses capsules (just as you are probably doing now).
No I'm not.
Right - and that's why the deprecation period is not about supporting
multiple
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 18:56, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
why not just consider this another
instance of the 2.x/3.x incompatibility? That's what it is after all.
Apparently not, as the code already ran under Python 3.1.
//Lennart
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On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 19:14, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Beside, if you need long-term support, there is a well-known solution:
turn to a company that provides such support. That company can be called
Redhat, Canonical, ActiveState or even Apple. The community of
volunteers
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 21:54, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
I don't know what other core devs, but I don't think this discussion is
going anywhere. If porting the ZTK is a burden for you, perhaps you
should try to find some financial support for it (or let other people
do it for
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 22:42, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
Fortunately there may not be any more such cases since no new major
versions of Python 2 will be released. So I'm not sure what an update
of PEP 5 will buy us.
That is a good point. But at least making sure no more API's
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 22:58, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
That is a good point. But at least making sure no more API's get
deprecated in 3.3 (and preferably 3.4)
I meant removed.
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be removed in 3.3, but better would be 3.4.
It must be possible to support 3-4 releases of Python with the current
release speed. We need to support python versions that are five years
old or so. In fact the deprecation period should probably be somewhat
similar to the security fix period.
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On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:20, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Agreed. Although better to defer it to 3.3.0 at this point.
+1.0.0 for that.
Yes, it's confusing, but it's going to be even more confusing if it's
called 3.2 sometimes and 3.2.0 sometimes.
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2010/12/2 Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org:
Because that works, but
print(T1234)
doesn't (it prints ASCII). You can't round-trip, but users will
want/expect that.
You should be able to round-trip, absolutely. I don't think you should
expect print() to do that. str(56) possibly. :)
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 20:17, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
And I'm not sure what this package called Python is (“a high-level
object-oriented programming language”? like Java?), but I'm pretty sure
I've heard there's a Python 3 compatible version.
Uhm...
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 09:23, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Sure you can. In Python program text, all keywords will be ASCII
Yes, yes, sure, but not the contents of variables,
I see no reason not to make a similar promise for numeric literals.
Wait what, literas? The example
)
Auditor:
$ cat numbered-account.log
Deposited: ?.??
That log reasonably should be in UTF-8 or something else, in which
case this is not a problem. And that's ignoring that it makes way more
sense to log the numerical amount.
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.
Improvements in the standard library can be more easily done in
external libraries anyway, and then you can release the improved
libraries for everything from Python 2.4 and forwards if you like.
So it can be done, but the question is Why?
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2010/11/8 James Y Knight f...@fuhm.net:
On Nov 8, 2010, at 4:42 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
Except for making releases that start backporting Python 3 features
and breaking backwards compatibility gradually (which may or may not
be a good idea) I don't see the point. There isn't much to do when
/localzone on unix. That could be interesting to include,
possibly. Having a fixed time zone offset object for the localtime
seems a bad idea. The problem it solves is easy to get around, but the
problems created are not.
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feature in the stdlib.
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2010/6/21 Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org:
IMO, the UI is right. Something like the above ought to work.
Right. That said, many times when you want to do urlparse etc they
might be binary, and you might want binary. So maybe the methods
should work with both?
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Python 3… yet.
Well, it *should* say: If you need to ask if you should use Python 2
or Python 3, you probably are better off with Python 2 for the
moment. But that's a bit long. :-)
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On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 18:20, Laurens Van Houtven l...@laurensvh.be wrote:
2.x or 3.x? http://tinyurl.com/py2or3
Wow. That's almost not an improvement... That link doesn't really help
anyone choose at all.
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that!
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and escaping and such, and that could be
done while the text is in bytes form.But the tools for that exists...
Is there some specific tool that is missing?
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One worry with an official sumo distribution is that it could become
an excuse for *not* putting something in the stdlib.
Otherwise it's an interesting idea.
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, which would be problematic.
But otherwise having a team of people overseeing and bundling all this
might not be that much work, and you'd avoid the bloat by not
installing all of it. :-)
Or would this not fool the company trolls?
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On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 06:22, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
- download a futures module from PyPI and live with the additional
dependency
Why would that be a problem?
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,
it's clear to me that letting a module mature on PyPI before inclusion
is the better policy here, although how long obviously must be decided
on a case by case basis.
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out of that discussion. :-)
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. The best way of ensuring that is to release it as a separate
module on PyPI, and let it stabilize for a couple of years.
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used successfully
in Java and C++ for years so it is unlikely that any major changes will need
to be made.
Good. Then the time it takes to mature on PyPI would be very short.
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like svn+ssh://foo.bar/frotz. ;-)
Also, even trivial modules can be useful if you use them a lot.
How would you define very short?
That's not up to me to decide.
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On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 15:05, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2010 14:47:25 +0200
Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 14:12, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2010 08:28:08 +0200
Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com
doesn't exist.
Please read and understand the issue report mentioned by Nir before
trying to make statements based on rumours heard here and there.
Oh, so Dave Beazleys reports is a rumour now.
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On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 14:52, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Le mardi 18 mai 2010 à 14:16 +0200, Lennart Regebro a écrit :
Please read and understand the issue report mentioned by Nir before
trying to make statements based on rumours heard here and there.
Oh, so Dave Beazleys
, it already
have. But the scheduler is so simplistic it ends up fighting with the
OS scheduler, and a large amount of CPU time is used up switching
instead of executing.
Having a proper scheduler fixes this.
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On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 14:12, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2010 08:28:08 +0200
Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
But the scheduler is so simplistic it ends up fighting with the
OS scheduler, and a large amount of CPU time is used up switching
instead
a warning not easily feasible in ./configure?
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On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 09:18, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
Am 26.04.2010 15:34, schrieb Lennart Regebro:
Yes, but only when the checkin was wrong. For all other checkins, it's
*less* work. Hence, a committer needs to basically fudge up every
second checkin to cause more work than he
be
reverted. That's what I mean with the risk being low, you can't make
permanent damage.
The Zope community gives commit access by recommendation. This works
well. The easier it is to contribute, the more people contributes.
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, and that a change is
comfortable and safe. :)
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about breaking the rules, but changing them.
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On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 20:30, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Lennart Regebro regebro at gmail.com writes:
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 17:42, R. David Murray rdmurray at bitdance.com
wrote:
The first is that open source projects tend to be meritocracies.
An otherwise unknown person
, and should not be hard.
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On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 06:56, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
If you set up any sort of report flag on the unit test itself, the
default report flags given to the testrunner are ignored. This goes
for all report flags, the REPORT_xDIFF and REPORT_ONLY_FIRST_FAILURE.
I'd suggest
*always*. You
don't want or expect it to stop working just because one testcase had
a DIFF flag set. Right?
Or did I miss something? If not, I'll provide a patch and put it in
the bugtracker.
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On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 20:52, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
On behalf of the Python development team, I'm merry
Imagines Benjamin dancing folkdances on tables full of food
to announce the first beta release of Python 2.7.
Cool!
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` - a part of `setuptools` package.
We can't ship *A* bootstrap script until there is *A* package
management tool in the Python world. Currently there are three. :)
In short: The tools that exist are not ready yet.
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. Which one is the recommended?
Both.
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will not have a package management tool or bootstrap
script to one, because there is currently not one that is good enough
to be the standard. People are working on making the situation good
enough, this debate is wasting their time.
The end.
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it. Python is open source. It's created by it's users. If there
is something you think it lacking, you step up and help make it
better.
But the packaging solution will not be ready for 2.7. It's a really
hard problem. Your help is appreciated. Complaints are not.
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of moving things into stdlib has included a lot of new
features, and are as such not stable. I'm worrying that adding such a
thing to stdlib will do so in an unfinished state, and we'll just en
up with yet another state of semi-brokenness.
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. Using a separate Olsen database installable by normal Python means.
5. Perhaps a timezone name alias map? That could map both old Olsen
names and Windows names.
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tied to the Python release schedule.
Which it already is. So no problem solved.
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the need for different API's but can't the extended part
that doesn't behave like timezone be separate methods?
I don't *mind* pytz in the standardlibrary, I just don't really see
how it solves any problems, while I can see how it creates them.
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both with and without pytz. So don't. Just
require pytz. I don't see the problem with that.
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to use
different timezone names for Unix and Windows. I don't think that's a
good idea.
Also, the windows data contains only current timezone data, so for
calendars stretching back in time, the Olsen database would be
preferable as it keeps history.
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. :)
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 05:59, Stuart Bishop stu...@stuartbishop.net wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:45 AM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 22:42, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de
wrote:
That's not true. The registry is readable by any user
. There is no need to move things into the core. An Pytz could
use more maintainers, Stuart tends not to answer emails, I assume this
is because he is overw
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On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:32, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
These kinds of wrappers exist in dateutils.tz. It would be great if
that type of functionality could get into Pytz as well. A sprint to do
this and fix the issues in the tracker should solve the issues, I
think
, but that would mean we have an implementation in stdlib that
relies on a dataset which may not exist. That is just going to be
confusing. Moving pytz into the stdlib doesn't solve anything, really.
So why do it? It's not like pytz is hard to install.
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On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 14:23, David Lyon david.l...@pythontest.org wrote:
We even get to install a python package directly from our
browser using this scheme. I don't understand why anybody
wouldn't want that.
So, go ahead, make it happen. No one is stopping you.
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it the
right way instead. Honestly.
Less talk, more hockey.
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On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 09:15, Юлий Тихонов july.t...@gmail.com wrote:
It looks like __cmp__, not __lt__ method.
Oh, yeah, sorry. I copy/pasted code from my code where I use __cmp__, :)
However, with this replacement test also falls into recursion.
Told ya. :)
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that handles it.
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of returning NotImplemented is to give the
other class a go. But if that other class implements this recipe, you
get infinite recursion. It seems to me that it means that this recipe
is broken, as it doesn't handle the other class returning
NotImplemented.
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redirect any of the __xx__ methods to another
one, the problem goes away.
But it uses a lot of annoying try/excepts. Ideas for improvements would be nice.
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Python 3 Porting: http://python-incompatibility.googlecode.com/
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On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 02:56, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
Lennart Regebro wrote:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 15:30, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
Ah, you mean the case where both classes implement the recipe, but know
nothing about each other and hence both return
quoted before saying it was black magic. Maybe you should
have read his mail before you answered it?
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http
the sites more than speed them up.
But of course, if in the future U-S would get that 4-5 times speedup,
doubling the memory would not be an issue, IMO.
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Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
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Hmmm.
A list of favorite restaurants?
OK, more seriously: Your favourite python tools.
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at the same time. Using different environment variables will make
this easier.
What do you need to do in the PYTHONSTARTUP file?
Ten years of Python programming, and I didn't even know it existed. :-)
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Python 3 Porting: http://python
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 21:08, Oleg Broytman p...@phd.pp.ru wrote:
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 08:50:59PM +0100, Lennart Regebro wrote:
What do you need to do in the PYTHONSTARTUP file?
Ten years of Python programming, and I didn't even know it existed. :-)
See http://phd.pp.ru/Software
is in
distutils.
Yeah, you are right, I misremembered. The actual additional feature is
the support for the test command. Testing under Python 2 and 3 without
it is annoying.
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now.
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. If none of these are
desired, then we need a special function that takes a filename or file
handle, and looks for a BOM and returns the codec found or None. But
I find that much less natural and obvious than checking the BOM when codec=None.
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Python 3
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 12:12, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
BOM is not a locale, and should not be a locale. Having a locale
called BOM is wrong per se.
D'oh! I mean codec here obviously.
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