s 2, right?
>
Good catch. That's actually undefined -- we want to let the optimizer have
some leeway in how to generate the best code for matching. See
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0622/#performance-considerations
Currently it doesn't optimize all that much -- it just pro
Elixir's "pin" operator is `^` and works this way.
I don't find it very intuitive that in order to write "it should be the
same x twice" you have to spell it differently -- it's more a clever trick
(that surely would become a hacker's idiom if we allowed it).
-
elative to `match`. As MRAB said, it's a case of picking the least
inelegant one.
Let me add that the parser can easily deal with whatever we pick -- this is
purely about human factors.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns
were all
trying to get the `__match__` protocol to do different things.
Also, beware that if your class does this, it is stuck with this form -- if
you replace `["__self__"]` with some other set of arguments, user code that
is matching against your class will presumably break.
--
-
Yes, you’ve got that exactly right! I think the pep has an example for
tuple((x, y)).
On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 13:08 Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev <
python-dev@python.org> wrote:
> One thing I don't understand about the PEP:
>
> case [x,y]:
>
> IIUC matches any 2-element sequence.
> How would you
27;===' as '==' followed by
'=' and it would treat this as a syntax error. Also, it looks a lot like a
JavaScript equivalency (?) operator.
A single '=' prefix suffers from pretty much the same thing -- Python's
tokenizer as well as the tokenizer in most people
It works for me. Did you click on the box where the logs are supposed to
appear? It will only show the logs when you click there.
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1:36 PM Henk-Jaap Wagenaar <
wagenaarhenkj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 17:09, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
&
.
- PEP 622: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0622/
- Playground:
https://mybinder.org/v2/gh/gvanrossum/patma/master?urlpath=lab/tree/playground-622.ipynb
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://femini
Please move this subtopic to a subject that doesn’t have “PEP 622” in its
topic.
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 17:54 Greg Ewing wrote:
> On 8/07/20 5:30 am, Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
> > from __future__ import const
> >
> > FOO: const = 1
> >
> > match val:
> > case FOO: # obviously matches by const
ing with the traffic
here.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
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Unfortunately there are millions of ideas. The PEP authors are taking the
dilemma seriously and we are deliberating what to do.
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:04 PM Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Thu., 2 Jul. 2020, 11:18 am Guido van Rossum, wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 5:50 PM Nick Co
ring assignment statements.
>
I'm not worried. Even if these didn't *exactly* the same syntax users would
still benefit from similarities, e.g. `a, b, *rest = value` vs. `case a, b,
*rest:`.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<h
l.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IM6NZJSZHID46K3QYGG4GUJ5D6GMMX4P/
>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
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g.
For details, see https://github.com/gvanrossum/patma/tree/master/binder
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*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
>
>
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
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On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 02:02 Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> ... The intent, though, is that any function
> waiting on an external event (this can be a timer, a socket, a
> lock, a directory...) should be interruptible so that Ctrl-C works in
> an interactive prompt.
>
That’s not really true though rig
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 5:30 PM Greg Ewing
wrote:
> On 24/06/20 11:26 am, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > A design pattern where a group of record-like classes is
> > combined into a union is popular in other languages that support pattern
> > matching and is known under a n
ed, e.g. '?foo' or 'foo?' to mark a
variable binding and '?' for a wildcard.)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
TDI.
>
I guess we *could* syntactically disallow 0|_, but why bother? I don't
expect anyone is going to write that and then expect the next case to be
reachable. When it comes to catching unreachable code I think we have
bigger fish to fry (e.g. f.close without the ()).
That
er to see it
aligned with `match` rather than with the list of cases, but for others it
feels like a degenerate case and should be aligned with those. (I'm in the
latter camp.)
There still is a lively internal discussion going on, and we'll get back
That's it. No sub-classing required.
>
> I wondered if someday, can we do this in Python? This match-case proposal
> seems to fit well in this example.
>
> While I know this PEP does not focus on detailed applications,
> does anyone believe we can achieve elegant class cre
oo = foo_value := Blarg()):
>
> ?
>
The full grammar in the Appendix makes this clear -- you can't write it
like that, but you could write
case Spam(foo=(foo_value := Blarg()):
I'll get to your other points eventually.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns:
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:05 AM Brandt Bucher
wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > IIUC the pattern matching uses either .get(key, ) or
> .__contains__(key) followed by .__getitem__(key). Neither of those will
> auto-add the item to a defaultdict (and the Mapping protocol
separate this out into
two cases. (And yes, I can think of counterexamples, but they don't feel
compelling enough to try and invent such syntax.)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-si
On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:27 PM Emily Bowman
wrote:
> I wonder if it's time to officially designate _ as a reserved name.
Alas, it's too late for that. The i18n community uses _("message text") to
mark translatable text. You may want to look into the gettext stdlib m
e multi-line lambda expression. Since
Python fundamentally is not an expression language, this is no great loss
-- you simply write a match statement that assigns a value to the variable
in each branch. Alternatively, the match could be inside a function and
each block could retur
bidding `_` in `**_`?
>
It is legal.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
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oncerns, it would be
> nice to see it mentioned in the rejected alternatives section.
>
We can't discuss every single idea in that section. I don't think anyone
else has proposed this, so I don't think it needs to be discussed for
posterity. There are plenty of better ideas in
a natural fit).
> Not a native speaker I don’t have a reasonable alternative, though.
>
Me neither, but I speak it quite fluently now, and 'match' really feels
like it fits well here.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<h
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 4:05 AM Greg Ewing
wrote:
> On 24/06/20 11:57 am, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > Matched key-value pairs must already be present in the mapping, and not
> > created
> > on-the-fly by ``__missing__`` or ``__getitem__``. For example,
> > ``collecti
et), str(doc), default):
> # already correct
> pass
> case (str(doc), default):
> v = None, doc, default
>
> Is this correct?
>
Yes.
Side note: I would much rather read "case str(doc) or (str(doc), )" instead
> of a |.
>
>
> case Color.BLACK:
>
> and:
>
> case _.BLACK:
>
The PEP authors discussed this last night and (with a simple majority) we
agreed that this restriction isn't all that important, so we're dropping it.
https://github.com/python/peps/commit/410ba6dd484
On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 5:21 PM Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 06/23/2020 04:26 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:41 AM Ethan Furman wrote:
> >
> > Testing my understanding -- the following snippet from the PEP
> >
> > match group
an have "case False:" and "case True:", should 'Ellipsis' become
> a keyword so that you could have "case Ellipsis:"? Or do they have to be
> "case .False:", "case .True:", in which case it could remain "case
> .Ellipsis:&
must already be present in the mapping, and not
created
on-the-fly by ``__missing__`` or ``__getitem__``. For example,
``collections.defaultdict`` instances will only match patterns with keys
that
were already present when the ``match`` block was entered.
You shouldn
t; @staticmethod
> def __match__(obj):
> # Should just return obj?
> return obj.x
>
> match C():
> case x:
> print(x)
>
>
> But once I read on, I realized that __match__() should return `obj` in
> this case. Still, the fact that return
y use named constants. These must be dotted names; a
single name can be made into a constant value by prefixing it with a
dot to prevent it from being interpreted as a variable extraction:
```py
RED, GREEN, BLUE = 0, 1, 2
match color:
case .RED:
print("I see red!")
Sure, in most places this would just
look redundant, but in large corporate code bases that's exactly the kind
of thing that people like to do.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-th
I presume Jupyter also lets you import code from a file, which you edit
outside, Jupyter? Is,that not an option for you?
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 04:09 Thomas Viehmann wrote:
> On 16/06/2020 20:02, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > Very few stars. This suggests not many people care about thi
iterator is never too
short or too long.
Congratulations, Brandt!
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
tain design
> tradeoffs. If I'm satisfied that subinterpreters are the correct solution
> to my particular need, why shouldn't I have the privilege of doing so?
>
Interesting choice of word. This is open source, no feature is free, you
are not entitled to anything in particular.
xamples
-- but what is the real-world problem you're encountering (apparently
regularly) that causes you to keep pushing on this? This needs to be
explored especially since so few other people appear to need this to work.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my
once we have locks in shared memory, a crashed process leaving a
lock behind may also screw up everybody else, though perhaps less severely.)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singu
via the class's `__module__` doesn't exist -- I'm sure
Jupyter can arrange for that to be the case). But I see how that would be a
problem (I can think of plenty of reasons why a class might not have any
methods).
I do think that your proposal is reasonable, although I wonder what the
Jupyte
IMO it is up to the offending module to provide an API for advertising
which variant of those functions is accepted. This seems out of scope for
inspect.
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 23:16 Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev <
python-dev@python.org> wrote:
>
> On 15.06.2020 8:45, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> > 1
? Is the problem that it does the same thing as add? I'd vote for
raising -- you shouldn't encourage or enable code that uses this pattern.
(In general I am a big fan of just never using the operator module.)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun
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> Code of C
milarly,
> Py_EndInterpreter turning the lights off if it's the last one out.
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> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofco
Huge congrats, Pablo. And thanks to Lukasz for 3.8 and 3.9. They’re all the
greatest release ever!
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 15:54 Barry Warsaw wrote:
> In light of the release of Python 3.9b1, let’s take a moment to celebrate
> all the great work that our Python 3.8 and 3.9 release manager Łukasz
_
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On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:57 Henk-Jaap Wagenaar
wrote:
> I'll join in with the fun...
>
> zip(strict=True) +1
> itertools.zip_strict() +0
> zip(mode='strict') -1
> zip.strict() -1
>
Those are exactly how I would vote.
--
--Guido (mobile)
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o have a generic implementation of "remote
> object": a empty proxy object which forward all operations to a
> different interpreter. It will likely be inefficient, but it may be
> convenient for a start. If a method returns an object, a new proxy
> should be created. Simple s
lti Core
> Python" project:
> https://github.com/ericsnowcurrently/multi-core-python/issues
>
> Victor
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> ___________
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@pyth
Agreed.
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 07:34 Victor Stinner wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Since Python 3 "str" type already means Unicode, I understand that
> Python 3 made this PEP outdated. Since Python 2 reached it's end of
> life, it seems perfectly safe to reject this PEP now.
>
> Victor
>
> Le lun. 4 mai 2020
This seems to be a reasonable feature.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 07:29 Karl Ding wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Could someone take a look at the following PR to add support for CAN_J1939
> to the socket module? I'd like to try landing this for 3.9. This
> enhancement would be useful for anyone working in au
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> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python
PM Carl Meyer wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 10:38 PM Guido van Rossum
> wrote:
> >
> > Note that, while there is indeed a docs page about 2to3, the only docs
> for lib2to3 in the standard library reference are a link to the source code
> and a single "Note: The
; https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
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>
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> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct
And thank you, Benjamin!
Where's the virtual party?
--Guido
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 08:09 Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> I'm eudaemonic to announce the immediate availability of Python 2.7.18.
>
> Python 2.7.18 is a special release. I refer, of course, to the fact that
> "2.7.18" is the closest an
to
disentangle all this, and I'd be happy to help someone who wants to work on
this.
Finally, I should recognize the important influence of my mentor in PEG
parsing, Juancarlo Añez <https://github.com/apalala/>. Without his early
encouragement an
ical for JSON) is no fun with square brackets and
> quotation marks.
>
Yeah, I get that too. So maybe this should be limited to JSON? Could the
stdlib json library be made to return objects that support this (maybe with
an option)?
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him
ually
with the help of some schema library), but there dict notation is
questionable.
Accepted if you replace "users of JSON" with "users of JavaScript" -- but
if you want to go there, try CoffeeScript. :-)
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:50 PM Kyle Stanley wrote:
> Guido van
g list -- python-dev@python.org
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> Code of Conduct
in decode
> return codecs.charmap_decode(input,self.errors,decoding_table)[0]
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'charmap' codec can't decode byte 0x81 in position
> 308: character maps to
>
> Barry
> ___
> Python-Dev mailing list --
_pass
> > subprocess.check_output(
> >File "d:\a\1\s\lib\subprocess.py", line 420, in check_output
> > return run(*popenargs, stdout=PIPE, timeout=timeout, check=True,
> >File "d:\a\1\s\lib\subprocess.py", line 524, i
at further up the
> output there is a FileNotFoundError for sqlite3.dll, perhaps it isn't built
> or is in the wrong place?
>
> Ethan
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 7:19 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> I have a large PR (https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/182
ot;, line 524, in run
raise CalledProcessError(retcode, process.args,
subprocess.CalledProcessError: Command
'['d:\\a\\1\\s\\PCbuild\\win32\\python.exe', '-c', "from ctypes import *;
import nt;WinDLL('_sqlite3.dll', winmode=0)"]' returned non-zero exi
After 30 years am I not allowed to take new information into account and
consider a change of heart? :-)
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:21 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 11:54:54AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > (In an early version of the PEG parser,
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 11:36 AM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 10:43:11AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > I've been toying with the idea of introducing a "match" statement
> > similar to Scala's match expression by making &qu
tion.)
>
Our cheaper solution is to remove the actions from the display grammar. But
I don't think that Grammar/Grammar should be seen as a complete
specification of the language. And I don't think it is terrible if the
specification says
function_def_raw:
| ASYNC &#x
use of the freedom PEG gives us. (For
example, I've been toying with the idea of introducing a "match" statement
similar to Scala's match expression by making "match" a keyword only when
followed by an expression and a colon.)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 5:16 PM Greg Ewing
wrote:
> On 6/04/20 4:48 am, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > There's no need to worry about this: in almost all cases the error
> > indicator points to the same spot in the source code as with the old
> > parser.
>
> I'
CVI4BGQRLN3ZRX/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
r points to the same spot in the source code as with the old
parser. I was worried about this too, but it really doesn't seem to be a
problem -- I think this might be different with highly ambiguous grammars,
but since Python's grammar is still *mostly* LL(1), it looks like we're
fine.
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:55 PM Matt Billenstein wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 05:17:31PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:20 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote:
> >
> > If the AST is supposed to be the same, then would it make sense to
> >
let a language designer solve the "dangling else" problem from the
Wikipedia page, by writing the form including the "else" clause first .
(Python doesn't have that problem due to the use of indentation, but it
might appear in another disguise.)
I should probably refi
en would it make sense to
> temporarily – maybe just during the alpha/beta period – always run
> *both* parsers and confirm that they match?
>
That's not a bad idea! https://github.com/we-like-parsers/cpython/issues/33
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why
27;m sure there are cases where the syntax
error points at a *slightly* different position -- sometimes it's a bit
better, sometimes a bit worse. But there could be cases where the PEG
parser reads ahead chasing some alternative that will fail much later, and
then it would be much worse. W
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:43 PM Paul Moore wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 19:20, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> >
> > Since last fall's core sprint in London, Pablo Galindo Salgado,
> Lysandros Nikolaou and myself have been working on a new parser for
> CPython. We are no
ay before the beta for
> instance).
>
> Yes, sorry I don’t mean to be pedantic, but it would be better policy-wise
> if the new parser were the default in time for the first beta rather than
> after.
>
That was the intention, i.e. releasing beta 1 with the new parser being the
def
emoved.
4. In Python 3.10, remove the old parser, the command-line flag, the
environment
variable and the "parser" module and related code.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using
r`` subclasses, should always
> return base ``str`` objects.
>
> Methods with the corresponding semantics will be added to the builtin
> ``bytes`` and ``bytearray`` objects. If ``b`` is either a ``bytes``
> or ``bytearray`` object, then ``b.removeprefix()`` and
&g
t;
This could also be simplified by writing 'return self[:]'.
> The two methods will also be added to ``collections.UserString``, with
> similar behavior.
>
> My hesitation to write "return self" is resolved by saying that it should
> not be relied on,
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signature of the subclass constructor. That's also why all
other str methods return an instance of plain str when called on a subclass
instance.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-sing
On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 8:38 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
> It's not great, and I actually think that "stripprefix" and "stripsuffix"
are reasonable.
> [explanation snipped]
Thinking a bit more, I could also get behind "removeprefix" and
"removesuffi
#x27;), '')
>
Maybe the proposed functions can optionally take a tuple of
prefixes/suffixes, like startswith/endswith do?
> The doubled 'e' in 'replaceend' isn't ideal, but if we went this way, I
> think keeping consistency with other str method names wou
Whoops. Here it is: https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues
Tested in a private browsing window.
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 1:21 PM Jonathan Goble wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 11:55 AM Guido van Rossum
> wrote:
>
>> Maybe this can be done by using the public S
Maybe this can be done by using the public SC issue tracker:
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgxwHMPfZfZKJSsbVCFPXmLBQlHQd
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 2:01 AM Stephen J. Turnbull <
turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum writes:
>
> > This now h
This now happened. Maybe you can just submit it to the SC for review? Or
did that already happen? (I no longer have any insight into the SC's queue.)
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 2:40 PM Łukasz Langa wrote:
>
> On 25 Feb 2020, at 16:22, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> Łukasz, do yo
; To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at
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> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/ps
>
At least for python-ideas, that sounds a lot like an exhaustive list of all
threads in that list. :-)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/&
ful. Even if an idea is bad, let's respond in a friendly way, so the
OP actually learns something about how Python is designed, or how it works,
or whatever is relevant to understanding why their idea won't fly.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pro
think that fact should be prominent in any documentation of the
> new dict Union operator.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 11:06 AM Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 7:43 AM Claudio Jolowicz
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In my experience, the expression `value |=
e send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DGEMKEX37HEIN7MBNSBJH5P2VQVKUEI7/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
--
e PEP 584 the most common
operation is dict.update(), which has the same semantics.)
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
_
ing and enforcement (e.g. having
> instances throw TypeError if you tried to insert a value of the wrong
> type).
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
>
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **
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