Re: [Python-Dev] Buffer overflow bug in GNU C's getaddrinfo()

2016-02-17 Thread Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev
vulnerable/ Is there a workaround that Python and/or Python apps should be doing, or is this just a matter of everyone on glibc 2.9+ needs to update their glibc? ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/list

Re: [Python-Dev] Python should be easily compilable on Windows with MinGW

2016-02-26 Thread Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev
alternative, as crazy as it may sound, is to get an AWS-Free-Tier EC2 instance and develop on that. Or, of course, buy an ancient used laptop and install linux natively. Obviously none of these are ideal, but they may still be better for you than waiting for a complete MinGW port of Python or a

Re: [Python-Dev] bitfields - short - and xlc compiler

2016-03-19 Thread Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev
u need some configure switch to test that your compiler doesn't allow short bit fields, so your ctypes build at least skips that part of _ctypes_test.c and test_bitfields.py, and maybe even doesn't allow them in Python code. >> test_short fails om AIX when using xlC in any case. H

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 484: updates to Python 2.7 signature syntax

2016-03-19 Thread Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev
On Mar 19, 2016, at 18:18, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Second, https://github.com/python/typing/issues/186. This builds on > the previous syntax but deals with the other annoyance of long > argument lists, this time in case you *do* care about the types. The > proposal is to al

Re: [Python-Dev] bitfields - short - and xlc compiler

2016-03-20 Thread Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev
On Mar 20, 2016, at 09:07, Michael Felt wrote: > >> On 2016-03-18 05:57, Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev wrote: >> Yeah, C99 (6.7.2.1) allows "a qualified or unqualified version of _Bool, >> signed int, unsigned int, or some other implementation-defined type", a

Re: [Python-Dev] pathlib - current status of discussions

2016-04-12 Thread Michael Mysinger via Python-Dev
guide the few remaining decisions. To help test the various options you could temporarily add a _allow_bytes=GLOBAL_CONFIG_OPTION default argument to both pathlib.__fspath__() and os.fspath(), with distinct configurable defaults for each. In the spirit of Python 3 I feel like bytes might not

Re: [Python-Dev] pathlib - current status of discussions

2016-04-14 Thread Michael Mysinger via Python-Dev
of a string only example at https://gist.github.com/mmysinger/0b5ae2cfb866f7013c387a2683c7fc39 After playing with and considering the 4 possibilities, anything where __fspath__ can return bytes seems like insanity that flies in the face of everything Python 3 is trying to accomplish. In particular

Re: [Python-Dev] pathlib - current status of discussions

2016-04-14 Thread Michael Mysinger via Python-Dev
Ethan Furman stoneleaf.us> writes: > On 04/14/2016 12:03 AM, Michael Mysinger via Python-Dev wrote: > > In particular, one RichPath > > class might return bytes and another str, or even worse the same class might > > sometimes return bytes and sometimes str. When will o

Re: [Python-Dev] pathlib - current status of discussions

2016-04-14 Thread Michael Mysinger via Python-Dev
Donald Stufft stufft.io> writes: > > On Apr 14, 2016, at 11:59 AM, Michael Mysinger via Python-Dev python.org> wrote: > > > > In essence, you will force me to pre- > > wrap all RichPath objects in either os.fsencode(os.fspath(path)) or > > os.fsdecode(os

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 8 updated on whether to break before or after a binary update

2016-04-15 Thread Peter Ludemann via Python-Dev
If Python ever adopts the BCPL rule for implicit line continuation if the last thing on a line is an operator (or if there's an open parentheses), then the break-after-an-operator rule would be more persuasive. ;) [IIRC, the BCPL rule was that there was an implicit continuation if the gr

[Python-Dev] Problemas con modulos

2016-04-29 Thread Felipe Ruiz via Python-Dev
comandos, todo bien, Igual con matplotlib requiere de varias dependencias (dateutils, numpy, tornado, etc, ya las instales) antes de su instalación, pero ya en el editor de Python, al ejecutar el código, me aparece el siguiente mensaje: ImportError: No module named 'matplotlib' a

Re: [Python-Dev] Yearly PyPI breakage

2016-05-05 Thread Mark Lawrence via Python-Dev
On 05/05/2016 23:22, Stefan Krah wrote Fredrik Lundh is also affected (and might not have received any mail, same as me): https://pypi.python.org/pypi/PIL He might be, but clearly the Python community as a whole is not impacted. From what I see the latest version of PIL that is

Re: [Python-Dev] Yearly PyPI breakage

2016-05-05 Thread Mark Lawrence via Python-Dev
On 06/05/2016 00:06, Barry Warsaw wrote: On May 05, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Mark Lawrence via Python-Dev wrote: On 05/05/2016 23:22, Stefan Krah wrote Fredrik Lundh is also affected (and might not have received any mail, same as me): https://pypi.python.org/pypi/PIL Maybe, but then there&#

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding Type[C] to PEP 484

2016-05-14 Thread Peter Ludemann via Python-Dev
Is Type[C,D] allowed? Or should multiple types be restricted to TypeVar? ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding Type[C] to PEP 484

2016-05-14 Thread Peter Ludemann via Python-Dev
Type[...] item have been defined with a TypeVar(..., bound=...), in which case multiple types aren't allowed with Type[...]? On 14 May 2016 at 11:30, Guido van Rossum wrote: > What would Type[C, D] mean? > > --Guido (mobile) > On May 14, 2016 11:21 AM, "Peter Ludemann vi

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding Type[C] to PEP 484

2016-05-15 Thread Peter Ludemann via Python-Dev
owed. There is *usually* a > good reason to use a type variable though -- without one the return type > would be the base class. (But then again maybe that could be what you want, > or you might not even have a return type, e.g. when the thing just gets > thrown into the database.) > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Why does PEP 7/8 explicitly suggest 2 spaces after a period?

2016-05-22 Thread Peter Ludemann via Python-Dev
27;t belong. The extra effort to use the second space helps to > emphasize the author's intent, and even subjectively make the period > "more visible". > > But I agree with Guido. No Python contributors write poorly, so the > real issues are consistency with past prac

Re: [Python-Dev] runtime dlls on Windows

2016-05-26 Thread Mark Lawrence via Python-Dev
im Golden, Mark "I've forgotten more about Python on Windows than you'll ever know" Hammond and Andy "ditto" Robinson I can't say that I'll lose too much sleep over it. As I suffer insomnia on top of chronic fatigue syndrome, that is quite a statement for me to ma

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding NewType() to PEP 484

2016-05-28 Thread Peter Ludemann via Python-Dev
gt; Regardless of what name, I'm fairly sure people will call it whatever >> the >> > function to create it is called. So if the function is >> > typings.distinguish_type(...), then distinguished will stick. >> > >> > Top-posted from my Windows Phone

Re: [Python-Dev] C99

2016-06-04 Thread Dino Viehland via Python-Dev
thods = unicodeiter_methods, > }; I checked and VC++ does actually support this, and it looks like they support // comments as well. I don't think it fully supports all of the C99 features - it appears They just cherry picked some stuff. The C99 standard library does appear to b

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-06-27 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 28.06.2018 2:45, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: On 28.06.2018 2:31, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: On 28.06.2018 1:42, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 05:52:16PM +0300, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: What this means in practice is that assignments will

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-06-27 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
hensions with side effects is ever a good idea, and Tim's examples did nothing to change that. -- Regards, Ivan ___________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.pyth

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-06-27 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 28.06.2018 2:44, Greg Ewing wrote: Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: for me, the primary use case for an assignment expression is to be able to "catch" a value into a variable in places where I can't put an assignment statement in, like the infamous `if re.match() is not

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-06-27 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
ng if the answers to such puzzles were > >> presented when they're posed. > well, I think the point there was that it wasn't obvious without running the code -- and that point is made regardless of the answer. -CHB -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Respo

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-06-28 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
of those, so it'll be no big deal, but this thread started talking about educators' take on this -- and as an educator, I think this really does complicate the language. Python got much of it's "fame" by being "executable pseudo code" -- its been moving farther

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-07-01 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
se Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov _______ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mai

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-07-01 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
gt; surely you don't teach them in a one day introductory class aimed at > beginners? > > Here is the syllabus for a ten week course: > > https://canvas.uw.edu/courses/1026775/pages/python-100-course-syllabus > That would be mine ;-) > Note that decorators and even re

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-07-02 Thread Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
On 02/07/2018 19:19, Guido van Rossum wrote: Thank you all. I will accept the PEP as is. I am happy to accept *clarification* updates to the PEP if people care to submit them as PRs to the peps repo (https://github.com/python/peps), and that could even (to some extent) include summaries of

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-07-03 Thread Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
some thoughts that were buried in my subconscious.  It's just that I couldn't come up with any rational objections to "->". Rob Cliffe <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Vi

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

2018-07-03 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
eads like these -- and other documentation, etc I find there is a lot of confusion about the word "generator", as it implies a "thing that generates values on the fly" (like, say the range() object. But then, in Python, a generator is something that gets crated by a generator func

Re: [Python-Dev] Examples for PEP 572

2018-07-03 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Serhiy Storchaka > wrote: > > I believe most Python users are not > > professional programmers -- they are sysadmins, scientists, hobbyists and > > kids -- > > [citation needed]

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Write vs Read, Understand and Control Flow

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
ead of := maybe => better := too close to other langs Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Of the proposed syntaxes, I dislike identifer := expression less, but I'd still rather not see it added. ___ Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] Examples for PEP 572

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
review. This "clever" code is exactly what Perl burned itself on and what Python, being its antithesis, was specifically designed to avoid. if result := solution(xs, n):     # use result It looks equally clear with the original code. This is not enough for introducing a new synta

Re: [Python-Dev] Examples for PEP 572

2018-07-04 Thread Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
l principle that Chris Angelico has repeatedly mention applies here:  If you want (as I instinctively would)     while (command := input("> ")).lower() != "quit": you can't express that in your iter version. Regards Rob Cliffe ___

[Python-Dev] Don't assign to a variable used later in the expression

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 04.07.2018 10:10, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 11:07 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 04.07.18 00:51, Chris Angelico пише: On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: I believe most Python users are not professional programmers -- they are sysadmins, scientists

[Python-Dev] "as" postfix notation highlights

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
m now we won't be able to after PEP 572 is implemented. Some people make fun of Python's expression/statement dichotomy, because hey don't you know that everything can be an expression, functional languages are awesome hurhur, but I think Python's approach is actually very elegant. P

Re: [Python-Dev] Don't assign to a variable used later in the expression

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 05.07.2018 2:29, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 4:10 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: On 04.07.2018 10:10, Nathaniel Smith wrote: Right, Python has a *very strong* convention that each line should have at most one side-effect, and that if it does have a side-effect it

Re: [Python-Dev] Examples for PEP 572

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
hard". How many of the users are "professional" vs "amateur" programmers is irrelevant. (E.g. while newbies are ignorant, pros are instead constantly pressed for time.) Python Zen rather focuses on making it easy to write correct code for everyone, beginners and pros alike

Re: [Python-Dev] Don't assign to a variable used later in the expression

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 05.07.2018 3:40, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: On 05.07.2018 2:29, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 4:10 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: On 04.07.2018 10:10, Nathaniel Smith wrote: Right, Python has a *very strong* convention that each line should have at most

Re: [Python-Dev] Assignment expression and coding style: the while True case

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
oved here". Well, if no-one knows how to find something that can be improved, it can't be improved :) ChrisA ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.py

Re: [Python-Dev] Assignment expression and coding style: the while True case

2018-07-04 Thread Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
assume (sorry to be pedantic :-)) this is a typo for         while (m := match()) and (j := m.end()) != i:     ... Maybe we reached here the maximum acceptable complexity of a single Python line? :-) It's at my limit.  But, as in an earlier example, I'd be tempted to do &q

Re: [Python-Dev] Assignment expression and coding style: the while True case

2018-07-04 Thread Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
us will use them more than others, some perhaps not at all. Regards Rob Cliffe _______ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Assignment expression and coding style: the while True case

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 05.07.2018 1:51, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, Let's say that the PEP 572 (assignment expression) is going to be approved. Let's move on and see how it can be used in the Python stdlib. I propose to start the discussion about "coding style" (where are assignment expression

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572, VF/B, and "Shark Jumping"

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 05.07.2018 2:52, Mike Miller wrote: Recently on Python-Dev: On 2018-07-03 15:24, Chris Barker wrote: > On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Chris Angelico > On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Serhiy Storchaka > > > I believe most Python users are not > > pro

[Python-Dev] PEP 572 semantics: all capabilities of the assignment statement

2018-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
the letter "all capabilities" 'cuz I may've missed something.) Should it? Personally, I'm for the unpacking but against augmentation 'cuz it has proven incomprehensible as per the 5 Jul 2018 04:22:36 +0300 letter. -- Regards, Ivan _________

Re: [Python-Dev] Assignment expression and coding style: the while True case

2018-07-05 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
64.py AFAICS), the change to `for' is fine. _______ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/vano%40mail.mipt.ru -- Reg

Re: [Python-Dev] Assignment expression and coding style: the while True case

2018-07-05 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
g to prescribe coding style or thinking about which parts of the std lib should be refactored to use it and which shouldn't. There is no need to rush into making changes. Let them happen naturally. -- Regards, Ivan _______ Python-Dev mailing li

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572, VF/B, and "Shark Jumping"

2018-07-05 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 05.07.2018 9:20, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, Jul 05, 2018 at 05:33:50AM +0300, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: And https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-June/154160.html disproves the "chosen often these days in new languages". Ivan, I think you may hav

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: intended scope of assignment expression

2018-07-05 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
... # obviously use x # ":=" in the if "announces" that usually x is no longer used # here, even if technically x is still defined The construct for temporary variables is `with'. `if' carries no such implications. See my match/group PR for more concrete exa

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572, VF/B, and "Shark Jumping"

2018-07-05 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 05.07.2018 3:22, Chris Angelico wrote: Python uses "as NAME" for things that are quite different from this, so it's confusing I wrote in https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-June/154066.html that this is easily refutable. Looks like not for everybody. Okay,

Re: [Python-Dev] Examples for PEP 572

2018-07-05 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
7;t by hardly anyone ever does / would. A lot of the argument for this feature is that it doesn't really let you do things you couldn't do before (like manipulate the local namespace in side comprehensions, or the nonocal one, or...) But this IS a silly game -- Python is highly dynamic, you c

Re: [Python-Dev] Symmetric vs asymmetric symbols (was PEP 572: Do we really need a ":" in ":="?)

2018-07-06 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 06.07.2018 7:02, Chris Angelico wrote: On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 12:48 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: Python really has a strong C legacy and this is the area where I agree that C designers made a mistake by picking a symmetric symbol (=) for an asymmetric operation. On top of that, they

[Python-Dev] A "day of silence" on PEP 572?

2018-07-06 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
. -- Regards, Ivan ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Naming comprehension syntax [was Re: Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 ...]

2018-07-06 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
uilder_pattern) commonly used in Java. (Though I worry about the presence of a Python example in that Wikipedia page. :-) According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_comprehension#History, the term's known from at least 1977 and comes from such influential languages as NPL, Miranda an

Re: [Python-Dev] Naming comprehension syntax [was Re: Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 ...]

2018-07-06 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 07.07.2018 2:58, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: On 07.07.2018 2:31, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 4:19 PM Terry Reedy <mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: Since Guido, the first respondent, did not immediately shoot the idea down, I intend to flesh i

Re: [Python-Dev] Naming comprehension syntax [was Re: Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 ...]

2018-07-06 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/8145 On 07.07.2018 3:33, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: On 07.07.2018 2:58, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: On 07.07.2018 2:31, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 4:19 PM Terry Reedy <mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: Si

Re: [Python-Dev] Time for 3.4.9 and 3.5.6

2018-07-08 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
ly that's pretty arbitrary. Thanks to all of you who keep making 3.4 and 3.5 better, //arry/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/p

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Time for 3.4.9 and 3.5.6

2018-07-08 Thread Julien Palard via Python-Dev
d). Bests, ​--  Julien Palard https://mdk.fr​ _______ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Time for 3.4.9 and 3.5.6

2018-07-08 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 09.07.2018 1:32, Larry Hastings wrote: On 07/08/2018 10:05 AM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: I'll use this opportunity to remind you that 3.4 build is broken -- it can't be built from start to installer with the instructions given because of outside factors (CPython has mig

Re: [Python-Dev] why is not 64-bit installer the default download link for Windows?

2018-07-09 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
s this still the case? Shouldn't we encourage new Windows users (who may not even know the distinction between the two architectures) to use the 64-bit version of Python, since most likely they can? The difficulty is that they *definitely* can use the 32-bit version, and those few who a

Re: [Python-Dev] Call for prudence about PEP-572

2018-07-09 Thread Anthony Flury via Python-Dev
Flury <https://twitter.com/TonyFlury/>* ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Assignment Expressions -- intention to accept, near-final draft

2018-07-09 Thread Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
uivalent     px, py, pz = position     name, phone, email, *other_info = contact [snip]     total += tax  # Equivalent: (total := total + tax) Is it conceivable that some of these restrictions might be removed in a future version of Python?  If so, the PEP might include a note to this effect.

Re: [Python-Dev] why is not 64-bit installer the default download link for Windows?

2018-07-10 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
tive in my book. Victor _______ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/vano%40mail.mipt.ru _______ Python-De

Re: [Python-Dev] Naming comprehension syntax [was Re: Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 ...]

2018-07-12 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
t term anywhere else. -CHB -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov _______

Re: [Python-Dev] Can I make marshal.dumps() slower but stabler?

2018-07-13 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
ing-point values, saving large quantities of memory by having only one floating-point zero. Steve Holden On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 9:55 AM, Alex Walters mailto:tritium-l...@sdamon.com>> wrote: > -Original Message- > From: Python-Dev list=sdamon@python.org &l

Re: [Python-Dev] Naming comprehension syntax [was Re: Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 ...]

2018-07-15 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
Thanks Nick, I'll adopt this approach when I update my teaching materials. If I think of it, I"ll post here when I do that -CHB On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 13 July 2018 at 15:30, Chris Barker via Python-Dev > wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 9,

[Python-Dev] Question about PEP 484

2018-07-16 Thread Adam Cataldo via Python-Dev
*Hi Folks,Cc: Rebecca, pytypeThis is Adam Cataldo; I’m the engineering manager for the Python team at Google. Rebecca Chen, our lead pytype <https://github.com/google/pytype> contributor, and I are interested in helping finalize PEP 484 if possible. To that end, we wanted to find ou

Re: [Python-Dev] Question about PEP 484

2018-07-16 Thread Teddy Sudol via Python-Dev
g/dev/peps/pep-0484/#acceptable-type-hints, type hints may be classes, abstract base classes, types defined in the `types` and `typing` modules, type variables, type aliases and None. Further in the section you linked, PEP 484 also states, "Stub files have the same syntax as regular Python mod

Re: [Python-Dev] Question about PEP 484

2018-07-16 Thread Adam Cataldo via Python-Dev
ble-type-hints, type > hints may be classes, abstract base classes, types defined in the `types` > and `typing` modules, type variables, type aliases and None. Further in the > section you linked, PEP 484 also states, "Stub files have the same syntax > as regular Python modules,&q

Re: [Python-Dev] Question about PEP 484

2018-07-16 Thread Rebecca Chen via Python-Dev
n what the authors are still trying to finalize and how we can be useful. As a conversation starter, we offered two issues in which pytype has some personal stake. Best, Rebecca P.S. Yes, Adam manages Python at Google. On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 3:15 PM Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Mon, Jul

Re: [Python-Dev] Const access to CPython objects outside of GIL?

2018-07-17 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 17.07.2018 7:18, Radim Řehůřek wrote: Hi all, one of our Python projects calls for pretty heavy, low-level optimizations. We went down the rabbit hole and determined that having access to PyList_GET_ITEM(list), PyInt_AS_LONG(int) and PyDict_GetItem(dict, unicode) on Python objects

Re: [Python-Dev] Const access to CPython objects outside of GIL?

2018-07-17 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
be some lessons learned there. The key differences may be that numpy arrays are full-fledged python objects, but they are not (generally) containers of python objects -- that is, the actual values are i memory accessed via a C pointer. Whereas a PyList holds pointers to Python objects, so even

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572 and assert

2018-07-17 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
ceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov ___ Python-Dev mailing list Pyt

Re: [Python-Dev] Question about PEP 484

2018-07-17 Thread Adam Cataldo via Python-Dev
of PEP 484, but it > > could well be done as a separate PEP (perhaps an informational one?). > > I hope you understand that I am not volunteering. > An informational PEP sounds about right to me. Such a PEP could also > include style recommendations like those from typeshed'

Re: [Python-Dev] Question about PEP 484

2018-07-17 Thread Adam Cataldo via Python-Dev
nd >>> that I am not volunteering. >>> >> An informational PEP sounds about right to me. Such a PEP could also >> include style recommendations like those from typeshed's CONTRIBUTING file ( >> https://github.com/python/typeshed/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.

Re: [Python-Dev] Question about PEP 484

2018-07-17 Thread Rebecca Chen via Python-Dev
I don't think that's within the scope of PEP 484, but it >> > could well be done as a separate PEP (perhaps an informational one?). >> > I hope you understand that I am not volunteering. >> An informational PEP sounds about right to me. Such a PEP could also >> include

Re: [Python-Dev] Const access to CPython objects outside of GIL?

2018-07-17 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
hout holding the GIL there are definitely use cases where it is not, for example when there are keys with a type implemented in python, or when the dict is modified in another thread. Ronald _______ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.pyt

Re: [Python-Dev] Fuzzing the Python standard library

2018-07-18 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 17.07.2018 19:44, Jussi Judin wrote: Hi, I have been fuzzing[1] various parts of Python standard library for Python 3.7 with python-afl[2] to find out internal implementation issues that exist in the library. What I have been looking for are mainly following: * Exceptions that are

Re: [Python-Dev] Benchmarks why we need PEP 576/579/580

2018-07-22 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
hough that that's not the case, and now you're in the defense. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido <http://python.org/%7Eguido>) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/l

Re: [Python-Dev] Finding Guido's replacement

2018-07-22 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
Whatever you decide, please research existing practices and their results so as not to repeat the same mistakes as others made before you. In particular, http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/BenevolentDictator and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-pattern . It would be a waste if Python falls victim to

Re: [Python-Dev] Finding Guido's replacement

2018-07-23 Thread Adam Cataldo via Python-Dev
ido's vacation :) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-Dev] USE_STACKCHECK and running out of stack

2018-07-28 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
run out of stack space? The reason I’m looking into this is that the default stack size on macOS is fairly small and I’d like to avoid crashing the interpreter when running out of stackspace on threads created by the system (this is less of a risk on threads created by Python itself because we

Re: [Python-Dev] Let's change to C API!

2018-07-30 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
> On 30 Jul 2018, at 10:20, Victor Stinner wrote: > > The API leaking all implementation details will remain available as an opt-in > option for Cython, cffi and debug tools. But this API will only be usable on > the "slow" Python runtime, the one whi

Re: [Python-Dev] Error message for wrong number of arguments

2018-07-30 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Error message for wrong number of arguments

2018-07-30 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
sue -- but what can you do? -CHB -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov __

Re: [Python-Dev] Error message for wrong number of arguments

2018-08-02 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Armin Rigo wrote: > On 30 July 2018 at 22:19, Chris Barker via Python-Dev > wrote: > > Oh well. This is a serious usability issue -- but what can you do? > > I think that argument clinic knows if the built-in function is > supposed to be a

Re: [Python-Dev] Use of Cython

2018-08-05 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
ant the exception handling, you can define your own >> declaration of PyList_Append() that does not have it. But personally, I'd >> rather use try-except in my test code than manually taking care of cleaning >> up (unexpected) exceptions. > > Exactly, that's the kind of

Re: [Python-Dev] Use of Cython

2018-08-06 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
(id(v)).ob_refcnt > > The quoted code is what I was referring to in: > > ctypes & cffi likely wouldn't help as much in the case, since they > don't eliminate the need to come up with custom code for parts 3 & 4, > they just let you write that logic in Python

Re: [Python-Dev] Use of Cython

2018-08-06 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
> On 6 Aug 2018, at 17:13, Stefan Behnel wrote: > > Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev schrieb am 06.08.2018 um 15:25: >>> On 5 Aug 2018, at 18:14, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> On 5 August 2018 at 18:06, Ronald Oussoren wrote: >>>> I’m not sure if I understand thi

Re: [Python-Dev] Pre- and post-conditions

2018-08-15 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
This is an appropriate topic for pyton-ideas: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas not python-dev. I'm sure you'll find interest in your idea there. -CHB On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:25 AM, Marko Ristin-Kaufmann < marko.ris...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi python d

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue?

2018-08-22 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
python used the "timsort" sorting routine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort So you can look at that and confirm that this is correct behaviour (I'm betting it is :-) But in general, sorting is O(n log(n)) -- there are going to be more than n comparisons. If comparing is sl

Re: [Python-Dev] A Subtle Bug in Class Initializations

2018-08-29 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
FromSpec is that this can result in C extensions that are binary compatible between python versions, which IMHO is less useful than it used to be in the past thanks to CI/CD systems. PyType_FromSpec also cannot deal with some esoteric use cases, such as defining types with a cus

[Python-Dev] New Subscriber

2018-09-01 Thread Kevin Kowitski via Python-Dev
Hey Everyone! I am new to this mailing list. I have experience with software development in the medical device industry and SaaS technology solutions. I have primarily worked with R, Java, and various unique and specific machine languages, but I have recently picked up Python. Part of

Re: [Python-Dev] New Subscriber

2018-09-01 Thread Kevin Kowitski via Python-Dev
Oh! I’m so sorry haha. I thought this was a developers forum for users of Python. So you are saying Python-list would be that type of forum? -Kevin Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:48 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > Hi, Kevin! This mailing list is actually about the devel

Re: [Python-Dev] Official citation for Python

2018-09-10 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
g the source of an idea or fact, or something of that nature. I can imagine a paper about computer language design or some such might need to reference Python -- in which case it should reference the Language Reference, I suppose. Maybe we should have a DOI for each version of the standard docs.

Re: [Python-Dev] Official citation for Python

2018-09-11 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
us to agree on that, but there are still multiple reasons / ways you might want to cite Python, and what you would want to cite would be different. Lets say one were to write an article about how different computer languages express functional programming concepts -- you may want to cite Python, bu

Re: [Python-Dev] Official citation for Python

2018-09-11 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
why this thread got sidetracked into citation formats, that has nothing to do with it. Or as the op said, that's "the easy part" > Lets say one were to write an article about how different computer > > languages express functional programming concepts -- you may want

Re: [Python-Dev] Official citation for Python

2018-09-11 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
Thanks Wes. """ > Python > > Guido van Rossum: Scripting the Web with Python. In "Scripting Languages: > Automating the Web", World Wide Web Journal, Volume 2, Issue 2, Spring > 1997, O'Reilly. > > Aaron Watters, Guido van Rossum, James C. Ahls

Re: [Python-Dev] Official citation for Python

2018-09-15 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
are >> trying to solve. >> *As a user, I am writing an academic paper and I need to cite Python. * >> > ai'd still like to know *why* you need to cite python 0 I can imagine multiple reasons, and that may influence the best document to cite. > Let's throw reprod

Re: [Python-Dev] Arbitrary non-identifier string keys when using **kwargs

2018-10-07 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
y> def spam(**kwargs): >> > print(kwargs) >> > >> > py> spam(**{"something arbitrary": 1, '\n': 2}) >> > {'something arbitrary': 1, '\n': 2} >> > >> > >> > There is some discussion on P

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