Hello to the list,
I have an idea for Python that is non-traditional in that it doesn’t extend or
modify existing Python language structure.
The idea uses Python to translate Python, entirely under program control,
directly to optimized assembly language .dll or .so files, called “extensions
Since the gamma function (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_function) is
defined for complex numbers too, wouldn't it be normal to have it implemented
on the `cmath` module? The `math` module has this function, but it doesn't
support complex numbers (as expected). I know that others librar
This isn't the place for ads for commercial products.
> On 7 Sep 2019, at 22:19, Mark @pysoniq wrote:
>
> Hello to the list,
>
> I have an idea for Python that is non-traditional in that it doesn’t extend
> or modify existing Python language structure.
>
> The idea uses Python to translate
Currently, C++ has support for atomic types, on which operations like add, sub,
xor, etc can be done atomically, thereby avoiding data races.
Having such a support will be very helpful in Python.
For instance users won't have to use Locks for synchronising shared variables
in case of multiproces
I don't know, but maybe you can look into submitting a PR that adds
cmath.gamma? (I would first create an issue on bugs.python.org where you
can have more discussion about the PR.) Maybe when implementing it you'll
find the reason why it isn't defined yet...
On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 1:45 PM wrote:
Since cmath module is implemented on C, and my C level is really basic, I do
not feel confident enough to submit a PR, but I encourage a more experienced
developer to do it. I must say too that I'm new to the python community,
therefore I don't know the following steps I should take. Thanks in a
Hi, Anders,
The availability of a free extension every 30 days is a big benefit to the
Python community that may not be immediately obvious. That’s not your standard
freemium, as it has all the “features” of the paid product -- full registers,
multicore, SIMD and other optimizations – so when
I forgot to mention that I received private feedback that was useful with
respect to the technical discussion:
The core technologies used are discussed in detail in the first five blog
entries -- that is the heart of the project.
Mark
___
Python-id
How is your approach different from, say, Cython, Nuitka or Pythran?
Regards
Antoine.
On Sun, 08 Sep 2019 15:56:04 -
"Mark @pysoniq" wrote:
> Hi, Anders,
>
> The availability of a free extension every 30 days is a big benefit to the
> Python community that may not be immediately obviou
On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 10:47 PM Mark @pysoniq wrote:
>
> Hello to the list,
>
> I have an idea for Python that is non-traditional in that it doesn’t extend
> or modify existing Python language structure.
>
> The idea uses Python to translate Python, entirely under program control,
> directly to
I think the "proposal" is "people should give us money." :-)
Yes, ads for commercial software do not belong on this list.
On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 12:08 PM Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 10:47 PM Mark @pysoniq wrote:
> >
> > Hello to the list,
> >
> > I have an idea for Python that
Also PyPy and Numba.
Cython actually seems a bit different. Without annotations in a superset
language, Cython programs mostly just use the same CPython runtime
libraries. However, with a few type annotations sprinkled in (but not
actual Python syntax), it can get big speedups).
PyPy actually tri
For example mypyc does this.
On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 17:29 David Mertz wrote:
> Also PyPy and Numba.
>
> Cython actually seems a bit different. Without annotations in a superset
> language, Cython programs mostly just use the same CPython runtime
> libraries. However, with a few type annotations
Maybe you can start by publishing a Python implementation?
On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 16:48 David García wrote:
> Since cmath module is implemented on C, and my C level is really basic, I
> do not feel confident enough to submit a PR, but I encourage a more
> experienced developer to do it. I must s
Hi, Antoine,
Cython requires the end user to rewrite the module to be compiled in a pseudo-C
language. With PysoniQ, there is no need to rewrite Python source code.
Nutika compiles to a C program, and there is more workflow instrusion. With
Nutkia, you will need to install a C compiler an
I have only read the posts on this thread, but the description sounded
more like a AOT compiler (like Cython, Pythran, Nuitka) than a JIT
compiler (like PyPy or Numba).
Regards
Antoine.
PS : PyPy has its own codegen AFAIK, it doesn't use LLVM.
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 12:28:45 -0400
David Mertz wr
Oh gosh, that's great but it's great++ with the dream-within-a-dream frame
:D :*
On Sep 8, 2019, at 12:29 PM, python-ideas-requ...@python.org wrote:
> Send Python-ideas mailing list submissions to
> python-ideas@python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
With all due respect, your description sounds more like marketing than
actual technical data. You should provide a detailed technical of your
solution, otherwise this is off-topic on this mailing-list.
Also, performance numbers without a detailed description of what's
exactly measured (includin
With respect to Pythran:
Pythran is "for a subset of the Python language, with a focus on scientific
computing." PysoniQ is not a subset of the Python language.
Currently Pythran is for Python 2.7 and "has decent Python 3 support." PysoniQ
is Python 3.x only, and goes through the most recen
Antoine,
In response to your comment: "Finally, Cython does not require any rewriting,
and annotations are
optional."
With Cython the end user does need to modify the code by inserting C type
definitions like this:
def primes(int nb_primes):
cdef int n, i, len_p
cdef int p[1000]
Mark
Antoine,
In response to "You should provide a detailed technical of your solution."
The automatically created ctypes wrapper is one of the keys of the project.
Blog entries 1 & 2 are a very detailed and technical discussion of the ctypes
wrapper.
If you go to Speed Metrics and read over the f
On Sun, 08 Sep 2019 17:20:30 -
"Mark @pysoniq" wrote:
> Antoine,
>
> In response to your comment: "Finally, Cython does not require any
> rewriting, and annotations are
> optional."
>
> With Cython the end user does need to modify the code by inserting C type
> definitions like this:
No.
On Sun, 08 Sep 2019 17:27:27 -
"Mark @pysoniq" wrote:
> Antoine,
>
> In response to "You should provide a detailed technical of your solution."
>
> The automatically created ctypes wrapper is one of the keys of the project.
> Blog entries 1 & 2 are a very detailed and technical discussion
Most of the examples I have seen in the Cython documentation have a cdef header
and many also have cdefs for typing.
Although optional, here is a quote from
"https://www.quora.com/How-fast-is-Cython"; which indicates that typing will
make a big difference in Cython performance: "Just simply
On 07/09/2019 18:59:49, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 11:27 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
A chance for me to bang the drum on one of my pet themes:
Sometimes the readability of code is improved by breaking the sacred
taboo of 1 statement per line, if it allows similar c
"I don't think the ctypes wrapper in itself is very interesting."
Well, we disagree on that! I think that automatic generation of a ctypes
wrapper to connect Python to assembly is interesting and a huge timesaver.
"I don't know where to find those blog entries."
The blogs can be reached di
Hi, David,
In several other posts here, I have distinguished PysoniQ from the open source
projects mentioned. It has much better ease of use and faster published
metrics than the other projects mentioned. The faster metrics should not be
surprising when technologies like LLVM are cut out of t
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:13 AM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
wrote:
>
> On 07/09/2019 18:59:49, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 11:27 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
> > wrote:
> >> A chance for me to bang the drum on one of my pet themes:
> >> Sometimes the readability of code is i
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 at 18:14, Mark @pysoniq wrote:
> Pythran is "for a subset of the Python language, with a focus on scientific
> computing." PysoniQ is not a subset of the Python language.
So, to confirm, your product runs the full Python test suite without
any errors, and can run the pyperfo
I read those two blog posts, and found very few technical details.
On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 1:30 PM Mark @pysoniq wrote:
> Antoine,
>
> In response to "You should provide a detailed technical of your solution."
>
> The automatically created ctypes wrapper is one of the keys of the
> project. Blog e
David,
It would be most helpful if you could provide an example of how they contain
"few technical details." I ask because I was afraid they were too technical!
Thanks,
Mark
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On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:12 AM Mark @pysoniq wrote:
>
> "I don't think the ctypes wrapper in itself is very interesting."
>
> Well, we disagree on that! I think that automatic generation of a ctypes
> wrapper to connect Python to assembly is interesting and a huge timesaver.
>
> "I don't know wh
Paul,
We are just going into beta, so we are not yet in a position to run the tests
you mentioned. When we go to release 1.0, we will be able to do that.
You can verify one of the metrics with the posted Complex Calc assembly code,
which is a pdf at the Resources link. Shortly I will be blo
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 5:06 AM Mark @pysoniq wrote:
> PysoniQ is not currently a commercial product, so this was not intended as an
> advertisement. I wanted to get technical feedback, bearing in mind that for
> reasons stated earlier it's not open source and the source is not published.
> As
On 2019-09-08 11:17, Mark @pysoniq wrote:
Hi, David,
In several other posts here, I have distinguished PysoniQ from the
open source projects mentioned. It has much better ease of use and
faster published metrics than the other projects mentioned. The
faster metrics should not be surprising whe
Hi, Guido,
I will distinguish PysoniQ from mypyc, based on what's available from mypyc at
this time (at GitHub).
Mypyc "compiles mypy-annotated, statically typed Python modules into CPython C
extensions" whereas PysoniQ does not require any static typing.
"Mypyc compiles what is essential
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 at 20:05, Mark @pysoniq wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> We are just going into beta, so we are not yet in a position to run the tests
> you mentioned. When we go to release 1.0, we will be able to do that.
Your claims are (currently) inaccurate, then. I suggest that you avoid
making the
Hi, Brendan,
In another post I said we considered making this open source, but our approach
is new and unique and we don't think there is a rich volunteer community with
the skills to translate Python directly to assembly language. I also talked
about the unfortunate funding problems for open
Hi, Chris,
That sounds great to me!
Mark
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Chris,
In the ctypes wrapper we perform this test on entry:
if (type(main_loop[0]) != float):
#return an error message
That's an imperfect test because lists can contain mixed types. To test an
entire array would be a large performance penalty, so the developer must be
sure that data pas
On Sep 7, 2019, at 18:07, davidgmoril...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Since the gamma function (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_function)
> is defined for complex numbers too, wouldn't it be normal to have it
> implemented on the `cmath` module? The `math` module has this function, but
> it doe
On Sep 8, 2019, at 11:34, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> You're right that the triple repeated name is not caused by your
> style. However, your suggestion also doesn't solve it. What I'd
> probably want to do, here, is build the dictionary with everything,
> and then have a separate pass that removes
That's a question for Tim Peters.
On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 9:48 PM Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas <
python-ideas@python.org> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 2019, at 18:07, davidgmoril...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Since the gamma function (see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_function) is defined for compl
More a question for Mark Dickinson - he added math.gamma, not me ;-)
There was a bpo issue opened about this over 8 years ago, but it was
closed 6 years ago "due to lack of interest":
https://bugs.python.org/issue11012
In general, adding hairy stuff to cmath is painful, and just
minimizing t
Mark @pysoniq wrote:
Finally, with both of these, you need to do more than just point and click.
I don't want to have to point and click. I want a command that I can
put into my Makefile.
Can I do that with your product?
--
Greg
___
Python-ideas ma
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Also, performance numbers without a detailed description of what's exactly
measured (including code for the benchmark) are useless.
Benchmarks are great -- you can find one that proves whatever
you want!
--
Greg
___
Python-ideas
On Sep 8, 2019, at 14:44, Tim Peters wrote:
>
> From my POV, the audience for complex gamma is relatively tiny
Agreed. Especially people who need complex gamma who aren’t dealing with arrays
(in which case you’d have to use scipy anyway).
Also, I suspect different uses might actually need diff
May I ask how acquainted you ar with parallel code, including
multi-threading, in Python?
Because as far as I can perceive none of the types or operations you
mention have
any race conditions in multi-threaded Python code, and for multi-process or
async code that
is not a problem by design but for
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