Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
Norman Dunbar wrote: > Rich's original manual, in Text87 I think, is a prime example - we > can't get a printer driver or extractor created to properly convert > the text to legal html, or to extract the text somehow, while > preserving or matting, or indicators of same. I tried, years ago > with blank files, then some with plain text etc etc to decode the > files. I failed. The way I did this with the SMSQ Reference Manual is to generate a PDF file using QPCPrint and then put that through an online PDF-to-Word converter. It has a very difficult layout, so manual work was still needed, but the result is better than one would expect. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject
Try Clued Up Communications, London. That's where he's been since 2000. He's done a couple of java based sql databases too it seems. Cheers, Norm. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject
Fred doesn't reply to emails asking about t87. I asked years ago when I found he was involved in Firebird SQL, a database I work with, and write documentation for, but as soon as I asked anything about his QL stuff, silence. Good luck to anyone trying. Cheers, Norm. It's 10.30 pm here now, and 37 degrees. :-( -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject
No chance withot an account... - Original Message - From: "Rich Mellor (RWAP)" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject I can't issue a working email address - but I found him on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/fred-toussi-41227591 Rich On July 6, 2016 at 6:40 PM Ralf Reköndt wrote: Ok, has anyone a working email address for Fred Toussi? - Original Message - From: "Dilwyn Jones" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject >> For those of us who are unfamiliar with T87, is there some (short) >> example document and the ASCII of the text contained? >> >> Graeme > The drivers_info_t87 file supplied with it states that the sources for > the > printer drivers were not included on the disk for lack of space but > were > available on request from the author Fred Toussi. I'm not in contact > with > him now, but if anyone did go to the trouble of getting these from him, > it > might possibly help I suppose. > > There is some information at the end of the above file: > > STRUCTURE OF PRINTER DRIVERS > > Each printer driver file consists of tables of numbers and strings and > a > small amount of machine code. The supplied files vary in size. The > Assembly Language source code for the driver files is available > separately > from Software87. Some of the source code files are for more than one > printer driver. Modifying the driver files requires the use of an > assembler to re-assemble the modified source file. Modification can be > very simple, as in the case of changing a number representing the pitch > of > a daisywheel, or more complex when a printer with a completely > different > standard is aimed at. With many Epson compatible dot-matrix printers, > the > width tables for proportionally spaced characters are different from > those > of the Epson printers for which there is a driver. This means that when > proportional spacing is used within a line, that line may not justify > correctly. The width tables within the printer driver should be > modified > for correct justification. > > The source listings are in the form of _T91 or _T87 documents. > Extensive > comments on the structure of the printer driver files can be found in > the > LX800 file. Once modifications have been made, driver files must be > |Export|ed using the |Ascii| command to make them readable by > assemblers. > The SINCLAIR Macro Assembler or Assembler (written by GST) can be used > for > assembling the printer drivers. The Macro Assembler can be purchased > from > QUANTA. > > I have a working Text 87 (thanks to Marcel for the patch program) so > could > export the data to help anyone prepared to look into this if we can > find > these sources. > > As it is, I’ll privately send you some Text87 files to experiment with > along with exported ascii text to compare. I’ve not looked at it > myself, > but I suspect that with all the options such as proportional spacing > etc > etc Text 87 has to handle it might be a very complex file format. > > Dilwyn > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12565 - Release Date: > 07/05/16 > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject
I can't issue a working email address - but I found him on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/fred-toussi-41227591 Rich > On July 6, 2016 at 6:40 PM Ralf Reköndt wrote: > > > Ok, has anyone a working email address for Fred Toussi? > > - Original Message - > From: "Dilwyn Jones" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware > PreservationProject > > > >> For those of us who are unfamiliar with T87, is there some (short) > >> example document and the ASCII of the text contained? > >> > >> Graeme > > The drivers_info_t87 file supplied with it states that the sources for the > > printer drivers were not included on the disk for lack of space but were > > available on request from the author Fred Toussi. I'm not in contact with > > him now, but if anyone did go to the trouble of getting these from him, it > > might possibly help I suppose. > > > > There is some information at the end of the above file: > > > > STRUCTURE OF PRINTER DRIVERS > > > > Each printer driver file consists of tables of numbers and strings and a > > small amount of machine code. The supplied files vary in size. The > > Assembly Language source code for the driver files is available separately > > from Software87. Some of the source code files are for more than one > > printer driver. Modifying the driver files requires the use of an > > assembler to re-assemble the modified source file. Modification can be > > very simple, as in the case of changing a number representing the pitch of > > a daisywheel, or more complex when a printer with a completely different > > standard is aimed at. With many Epson compatible dot-matrix printers, the > > width tables for proportionally spaced characters are different from those > > of the Epson printers for which there is a driver. This means that when > > proportional spacing is used within a line, that line may not justify > > correctly. The width tables within the printer driver should be modified > > for correct justification. > > > > The source listings are in the form of _T91 or _T87 documents. Extensive > > comments on the structure of the printer driver files can be found in the > > LX800 file. Once modifications have been made, driver files must be > > |Export|ed using the |Ascii| command to make them readable by assemblers. > > The SINCLAIR Macro Assembler or Assembler (written by GST) can be used for > > assembling the printer drivers. The Macro Assembler can be purchased from > > QUANTA. > > > > I have a working Text 87 (thanks to Marcel for the patch program) so could > > export the data to help anyone prepared to look into this if we can find > > these sources. > > > > As it is, I’ll privately send you some Text87 files to experiment with > > along with exported ascii text to compare. I’ve not looked at it myself, > > but I suspect that with all the options such as proportional spacing etc > > etc Text 87 has to handle it might be a very complex file format. > > > > Dilwyn > > > > > > - > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12565 - Release Date: 07/05/16 > > ___ > > QL-Users Mailing List > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List Rich Mellor RWAP Software www.rwapsoftware.co.uk www.sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject
Ok, has anyone a working email address for Fred Toussi? - Original Message - From: "Dilwyn Jones" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject For those of us who are unfamiliar with T87, is there some (short) example document and the ASCII of the text contained? Graeme The drivers_info_t87 file supplied with it states that the sources for the printer drivers were not included on the disk for lack of space but were available on request from the author Fred Toussi. I'm not in contact with him now, but if anyone did go to the trouble of getting these from him, it might possibly help I suppose. There is some information at the end of the above file: STRUCTURE OF PRINTER DRIVERS Each printer driver file consists of tables of numbers and strings and a small amount of machine code. The supplied files vary in size. The Assembly Language source code for the driver files is available separately from Software87. Some of the source code files are for more than one printer driver. Modifying the driver files requires the use of an assembler to re-assemble the modified source file. Modification can be very simple, as in the case of changing a number representing the pitch of a daisywheel, or more complex when a printer with a completely different standard is aimed at. With many Epson compatible dot-matrix printers, the width tables for proportionally spaced characters are different from those of the Epson printers for which there is a driver. This means that when proportional spacing is used within a line, that line may not justify correctly. The width tables within the printer driver should be modified for correct justification. The source listings are in the form of _T91 or _T87 documents. Extensive comments on the structure of the printer driver files can be found in the LX800 file. Once modifications have been made, driver files must be |Export|ed using the |Ascii| command to make them readable by assemblers. The SINCLAIR Macro Assembler or Assembler (written by GST) can be used for assembling the printer drivers. The Macro Assembler can be purchased from QUANTA. I have a working Text 87 (thanks to Marcel for the patch program) so could export the data to help anyone prepared to look into this if we can find these sources. As it is, I’ll privately send you some Text87 files to experiment with along with exported ascii text to compare. I’ve not looked at it myself, but I suspect that with all the options such as proportional spacing etc etc Text 87 has to handle it might be a very complex file format. Dilwyn - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12565 - Release Date: 07/05/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject
> For those of us who are unfamiliar with T87, is there some (short) > example document and the ASCII of the text contained? > > Graeme The drivers_info_t87 file supplied with it states that the sources for the printer drivers were not included on the disk for lack of space but were available on request from the author Fred Toussi. I'm not in contact with him now, but if anyone did go to the trouble of getting these from him, it might possibly help I suppose. There is some information at the end of the above file: STRUCTURE OF PRINTER DRIVERS Each printer driver file consists of tables of numbers and strings and a small amount of machine code. The supplied files vary in size. The Assembly Language source code for the driver files is available separately from Software87. Some of the source code files are for more than one printer driver. Modifying the driver files requires the use of an assembler to re-assemble the modified source file. Modification can be very simple, as in the case of changing a number representing the pitch of a daisywheel, or more complex when a printer with a completely different standard is aimed at. With many Epson compatible dot-matrix printers, the width tables for proportionally spaced characters are different from those of the Epson printers for which there is a driver. This means that when proportional spacing is used within a line, that line may not justify correctly. The width tables within the printer driver should be modified for correct justification. The source listings are in the form of _T91 or _T87 documents. Extensive comments on the structure of the printer driver files can be found in the LX800 file. Once modifications have been made, driver files must be |Export|ed using the |Ascii| command to make them readable by assemblers. The SINCLAIR Macro Assembler or Assembler (written by GST) can be used for assembling the printer drivers. The Macro Assembler can be purchased from QUANTA. I have a working Text 87 (thanks to Marcel for the patch program) so could export the data to help anyone prepared to look into this if we can find these sources. As it is, I’ll privately send you some Text87 files to experiment with along with exported ascii text to compare. I’ve not looked at it myself, but I suspect that with all the options such as proportional spacing etc etc Text 87 has to handle it might be a very complex file format. Dilwyn - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12565 - Release Date: 07/05/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016, at 05:19 PM, Ralf Reköndt wrote: > Simply ask Fred Toussi, why he do not explain the programming of a T87 > printer driver and the way, he saves documents. > > And be careful about the sun! > > - Original Message - > From: "Norman Dunbar" > > > Rich's original manual, in Text87 I think, is a prime example - we can't > > get a printer driver or extractor created to properly convert the text to > > legal html, or to extract the text somehow, while preserving or matting, > > or indicators of same. I tried, years ago with blank files, then some > > with plain text etc etc to decode the files. I failed. > For those of us who are unfamiliar with T87, is there some (short) example document and the ASCII of the text contained? Graeme ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personalSoftware PreservationProject
Simply ask Fred Toussi, why he do not explain the programming of a T87 printer driver and the way, he saves documents. And be careful about the sun! - Original Message - From: "Norman Dunbar" Rich's original manual, in Text87 I think, is a prime example - we can't get a printer driver or extractor created to properly convert the text to legal html, or to extract the text somehow, while preserving or matting, or indicators of same. I tried, years ago with blank files, then some with plain text etc etc to decode the files. I failed. ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
Greetings from Turkey. It's 45 degrees here and as a pale blue Scotsman, I'm f*cked! Right, while I've never really bothered with the software preservation part of Rich's empire, I certainly do appreciate the hard work Rich puts in, and it sounds like it's having detrimental effects on his health, so my advice would be walk away, enjoy your health. Forget the software. My stuff that Dilwyn published years ago is free, will always be free, it's available from Dilwyn even as I type. What I am concerned with, is data. How much data are held, locked away,in proprietary databases, word processing files, spreadsheets etc? How can we know what is important and what is not if we can't read it? Arthur C Clarke, yes that one, once told me that he had many of his own manuscripts unavailable to even him as they were some old version of some software package or other, no longer available. (OK, he didn't tell me explicitly, he wrote it in a foreword to a book of his I read, but you catch my drift?) We need Rich's (and others) preservation of this software because out there, somewhere, someone might just have something of value thst they can no longer access. That's what is important. We also need new programs to access the data when a QL isn't around. QxlWin for example, Qstripper as another. See a pattern? Data rescue! I've done quite a bit of work in the past for Rich's online manual. It's a thankless task. The autogenerated html is crap and entangled. It's not even legal html in places, I'm surprised it ever worked! Harsh? Perhaps, but sadly true. The only reason it probably works in most browsers us the hops they jump through to cope it IE compatible Web sites of old, but for how much longer? Rich's original manual, in Text87 I think, is a prime example - we can't get a printer driver or extractor created to properly convert the text to legal html, or to extract the text somehow, while preserving or matting, or indicators of same. I tried, years ago with blank files, then some with plain text etc etc to decode the files. I failed. Preserve software, yes, but data are far more important. We need that preserving in readily accessible formats. I might get flamed, I might get ignored. I might even be right! Good luck Rich. Cheers, Norm. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
On 2016-07-06 14:38, Rich Mellor wrote: On 06/07/2016 13:50, Marcel Kilgus wrote: Rich Mellor wrote: Hosting old software is more problematic than parking on a double yellow line (sorry not sure what the equivalent is in Germany). Tell that to e.g. http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/ They've been in the business of hosting abandonware for 18 years and running. That is a risk they are willing to take. They admit that what they do is strictly illegal and yes, they say that they "will gladly remove download links to any game that is either 1) still being sold by the publisher, or 2) at the request of the publishers themselves" Alas the issue has come about because people keep publishing the same titles which are still being sold by the publisher, and when asked to remove links, kick up a huge fuss about it! World of Spectrum has been very successful in its repository of ZX Spectrum titles - mainly because it took the step of trying to contact as many copyright holders as possible before hosting their files. Could I ask what your approach would be if you found (before QPC2 was made freeware), sites who just offer free downloads of QPC2, QPCPrint etc? Would you have been happy and let them do it whilst you were continuing to sell the programs yourself? Don't muddle the issue. We're strictly talking about software here that was written a long time ago and which the original authors have long lost interest in. I still support QPC2 EVEN though I made it free. But we are not - I am in contact with a lot of the copyright holders and they are still very interested in what happens with their software. The titles everyone seems to moan about are the titles which I still sell and support, so how is that different to QPCPrint and QPC2 just because the support is not done by the original author, but by me as authorised distributor? The thing hit the fan when somebody send take-down notices to a site that has actually put copies for everybody to use on the internet. So we're left with less copies than there were before. But the software was mainly software which could readily still be purchased online from myself and Jochen. For example? I only see 3 QL software products left on Jochen's page to purchase, which is QMENU, Lonely Joker and QD (last updated 13 years ago! With my help even). And yes, I think at least QD and QMENU should now be free, too. The Spanish sites included a lot of the Talent and Pyramide software titles, Text87, Hyperdrive, and at least one of Jochen's titles. Rather than concentrating on trying to increase the range of free QL software available, it tends to be the same 10 titles or so which were published by a similar site in 2014 (and subsequently removed at the request of the copyright holders). Who are those mysterious copyright holders? The last request at the Spanish site was apparently anonymous. How can an anonymous person claim copyright to anything? I can't imagine Jochen sending out any take down orders either. Jochen emailed them in 2014 and was also involved this year. Other copyright authors involved (that I know of) have been the man behind English Software, Tom Dolezal (Talent), Fred Toussi (Software87), Daniel Purlich (Pyramide), Ken Brown (Eidersoft), Simon Goodwin and Steve Hollywood (Arrakis). As to who contacted their hosting company 'anonymously' I don't know - it might well be that the hosting company didn't ask for details, or simply did not want to provide them to the website owner once they realised that they were in danger of being fined by the Spanish government. It is always the danger that by approaching copyright holders, they will look to see whether their software or name is mentioned online anywhere, and might then take offense that whilst one person has found them quite easily and approached them on friendly terms to ask if the software could be made available freeware, they then find that someone else has decided to just offer it as a free download without making any attempt to contact them! Unfortunately, in the 9 years since I decided off my own back to set up the QL Wiki and start preserving what QL software I could, the number of people who have shown willing to help take the project any further forward can be counted on one hand. Once again, I appreciate any work you have done. I also have contributed to the Wiki a bit, but I was far too young back then so I don't really know most of the titles listed. And will probably never know them because they have either been taken down or are just available "commercially". But ok, I will try to exert what little influence I have left to get a few more titles released. Great - there are still various titles by Tony Tebby for example... - have a look at the long list on my spreadsheet - there are plenty of German authors too who need to be tracked down. The whole argument about this could have easily been avoided if people who wanted to host a QL
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
On 2016-07-06 13:50, Marcel Kilgus wrote: Rich Mellor wrote: Hosting old software is more problematic than parking on a double yellow line (sorry not sure what the equivalent is in Germany). Tell that to e.g. http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/ They've been in the business of hosting abandonware for 18 years and running. As I have said in posts elsewhere, if someone wants to take the risk and set up a repository, that is fine, but I will not be a part of illegal file sharing (which is what it amounts to) and cannot take the risk of losing my websites and being prosecuted for breach of international copyright. I can totally understand that and nobody says you must do so. But if anybody does do so, like the Spanish site, then this is fine with me. More the issue is the reaction of people when a copyright contacts them to have software withdrawn - to date, I have been attacked because it must be my fault for asking for the software to be taken down. I would never attack you, but I can understand that people are not happy about it. And if this was software you had written to begin with I would be totally on your side. But it's only software other people have written a long time ago and I have already explained what I think about this, so I won't write it again. Could I ask what your approach would be if you found (before QPC2 was made freeware), sites who just offer free downloads of QPC2, QPCPrint etc? Would you have been happy and let them do it whilst you were continuing to sell the programs yourself? Don't muddle the issue. We're strictly talking about software here that was written a long time ago and which the original authors have long lost interest in. I still support QPC2 EVEN though I made it free. Unfortunately yes - as has been shown by someone reporting illegal file sharing to the hosting company of one of the sites concerned Yes, someone. I really wonder who that was... The thing hit the fan when somebody send take-down notices to a site that has actually put copies for everybody to use on the internet. So we're left with less copies than there were before. But the software was mainly software which could readily still be purchased online from myself and Jochen. For example? I only see 3 QL software products left on Jochen's page to purchase, which is QMENU, Lonely Joker and QD (last updated 13 years ago! With my help even). And yes, I think at least QD and QMENU should now be free, too. Rather than concentrating on trying to increase the range of free QL software available, it tends to be the same 10 titles or so which were published by a similar site in 2014 (and subsequently removed at the request of the copyright holders). Who are those mysterious copyright holders? The last request at the Spanish site was apparently anonymous. How can an anonymous person claim copyright to anything? I can't imagine Jochen sending out any take down orders either. Unfortunately, in the 9 years since I decided off my own back to set up the QL Wiki and start preserving what QL software I could, the number of people who have shown willing to help take the project any further forward can be counted on one hand. Once again, I appreciate any work you have done. I also have contributed to the Wiki a bit, but I was far too young back then so I don't really know most of the titles listed. And will probably never know them because they have either been taken down or are just available "commercially". But ok, I will try to exert what little influence I have left to get a few more titles released. If you want to go some other way and do file sharing of copyright material, then unfortunately, I will not be part of this. Once again, I won't and nobody expects you to do so. But if somebody wants to host abandonware, more power to them in my eyes. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
On 06/07/2016 13:50, Marcel Kilgus wrote: Rich Mellor wrote: Hosting old software is more problematic than parking on a double yellow line (sorry not sure what the equivalent is in Germany). Tell that to e.g. http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/ They've been in the business of hosting abandonware for 18 years and running. That is a risk they are willing to take. They admit that what they do is strictly illegal and yes, they say that they "will gladly remove download links to any game that is either 1) still being sold by the publisher, or 2) at the request of the publishers themselves" Alas the issue has come about because people keep publishing the same titles which are still being sold by the publisher, and when asked to remove links, kick up a huge fuss about it! World of Spectrum has been very successful in its repository of ZX Spectrum titles - mainly because it took the step of trying to contact as many copyright holders as possible before hosting their files. Could I ask what your approach would be if you found (before QPC2 was made freeware), sites who just offer free downloads of QPC2, QPCPrint etc? Would you have been happy and let them do it whilst you were continuing to sell the programs yourself? Don't muddle the issue. We're strictly talking about software here that was written a long time ago and which the original authors have long lost interest in. I still support QPC2 EVEN though I made it free. But we are not - I am in contact with a lot of the copyright holders and they are still very interested in what happens with their software. The titles everyone seems to moan about are the titles which I still sell and support, so how is that different to QPCPrint and QPC2 just because the support is not done by the original author, but by me as authorised distributor? The thing hit the fan when somebody send take-down notices to a site that has actually put copies for everybody to use on the internet. So we're left with less copies than there were before. But the software was mainly software which could readily still be purchased online from myself and Jochen. For example? I only see 3 QL software products left on Jochen's page to purchase, which is QMENU, Lonely Joker and QD (last updated 13 years ago! With my help even). And yes, I think at least QD and QMENU should now be free, too. The Spanish sites included a lot of the Talent and Pyramide software titles, Text87, Hyperdrive, and at least one of Jochen's titles. Rather than concentrating on trying to increase the range of free QL software available, it tends to be the same 10 titles or so which were published by a similar site in 2014 (and subsequently removed at the request of the copyright holders). Who are those mysterious copyright holders? The last request at the Spanish site was apparently anonymous. How can an anonymous person claim copyright to anything? I can't imagine Jochen sending out any take down orders either. Jochen emailed them in 2014 and was also involved this year. Other copyright authors involved (that I know of) have been the man behind English Software, Tom Dolezal (Talent), Fred Toussi (Software87), Daniel Purlich (Pyramide), Ken Brown (Eidersoft), Simon Goodwin and Steve Hollywood (Arrakis). As to who contacted their hosting company 'anonymously' I don't know - it might well be that the hosting company didn't ask for details, or simply did not want to provide them to the website owner once they realised that they were in danger of being fined by the Spanish government. It is always the danger that by approaching copyright holders, they will look to see whether their software or name is mentioned online anywhere, and might then take offense that whilst one person has found them quite easily and approached them on friendly terms to ask if the software could be made available freeware, they then find that someone else has decided to just offer it as a free download without making any attempt to contact them! Unfortunately, in the 9 years since I decided off my own back to set up the QL Wiki and start preserving what QL software I could, the number of people who have shown willing to help take the project any further forward can be counted on one hand. Once again, I appreciate any work you have done. I also have contributed to the Wiki a bit, but I was far too young back then so I don't really know most of the titles listed. And will probably never know them because they have either been taken down or are just available "commercially". But ok, I will try to exert what little influence I have left to get a few more titles released. Great - there are still various titles by Tony Tebby for example... - have a look at the long list on my spreadsheet - there are plenty of German authors too who need to be tracked down. The whole argument about this could have easily been avoided if people who wanted to host a QL repository took their time to be
[Ql-Users] R: Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
" Once again, I won't and nobody expects you to do so. But if somebody wants to host abandonware, more power to them in my eyes." Ehm...I think that this will discourage all kind of publishing in the future...as our Italian preservation program want act legally. That anonymous request was real and was sent to 2 guys that in the past got problems of rights with RICH and republish pratically all on his sites with other grafic/format ;) So this is a reiterate way to don't respect the work of others ^_^ Kora Sistemi Informatici Via Cavour 1, 46030 San Giorgio di Mantova MN Tel/Fax +39 0376 371059 P. IVA: 02048930206 -Messaggio originale- Da: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] Per conto di Marcel Kilgus Inviato: mercoledì 6 luglio 2016 14:50 A: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Oggetto: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject Rich Mellor wrote: > Hosting old software is more problematic than parking on a double > yellow line (sorry not sure what the equivalent is in Germany). Tell that to e.g. http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/ They've been in the business of hosting abandonware for 18 years and running. > As I have said in posts elsewhere, if someone wants to take the risk > and set up a repository, that is fine, but I will not be a part of > illegal file sharing (which is what it amounts to) and cannot take the > risk of losing my websites and being prosecuted for breach of > international copyright. I can totally understand that and nobody says you must do so. But if anybody does do so, like the Spanish site, then this is fine with me. > More the issue is the reaction of people when a copyright contacts > them to have software withdrawn - to date, I have been attacked > because it must be my fault for asking for the software to be taken down. I would never attack you, but I can understand that people are not happy about it. And if this was software you had written to begin with I would be totally on your side. But it's only software other people have written a long time ago and I have already explained what I think about this, so I won't write it again. > Could I ask what your approach would be if you found (before QPC2 was > made freeware), sites who just offer free downloads of QPC2, QPCPrint > etc? Would you have been happy and let them do it whilst you were > continuing to sell the programs yourself? Don't muddle the issue. We're strictly talking about software here that was written a long time ago and which the original authors have long lost interest in. I still support QPC2 EVEN though I made it free. > Unfortunately yes - as has been shown by someone reporting illegal > file sharing to the hosting company of one of the sites concerned Yes, someone. I really wonder who that was... >> The thing hit the fan when somebody send take-down notices to a site >> that has actually put copies for everybody to use on the internet. So >> we're left with less copies than there were before. > But the software was mainly software which could readily still be > purchased online from myself and Jochen. For example? I only see 3 QL software products left on Jochen's page to purchase, which is QMENU, Lonely Joker and QD (last updated 13 years ago! With my help even). And yes, I think at least QD and QMENU should now be free, too. > Rather than concentrating on trying to increase the range of free QL > software available, it tends to be the same 10 titles or so which were > published by a similar site in 2014 (and subsequently removed at the > request of the copyright holders). Who are those mysterious copyright holders? The last request at the Spanish site was apparently anonymous. How can an anonymous person claim copyright to anything? I can't imagine Jochen sending out any take down orders either. > Unfortunately, in the 9 years since I decided off my own back to set > up the QL Wiki and start preserving what QL software I could, the > number of people who have shown willing to help take the project any > further forward can be counted on one hand. Once again, I appreciate any work you have done. I also have contributed to the Wiki a bit, but I was far too young back then so I don't really know most of the titles listed. And will probably never know them because they have either been taken down or are just available "commercially". But ok, I will try to exert what little influence I have left to get a few more titles released. > If you want to go some other way and do file sharing of copyright > material, then unfortunately, I will not be part of this. Once again, I won't and nobody expects you to do so. But if somebody wants to host abandonware, more power to them in my eyes. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
Rich Mellor wrote: > Hosting old software is more problematic than parking on a double yellow > line (sorry not sure what the equivalent is in Germany). Tell that to e.g. http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/ They've been in the business of hosting abandonware for 18 years and running. > As I have said in posts elsewhere, if someone wants to take the risk and > set up a repository, that is fine, but I will not be a part of illegal > file sharing (which is what it amounts to) and cannot take the risk of > losing my websites and being prosecuted for breach of international > copyright. I can totally understand that and nobody says you must do so. But if anybody does do so, like the Spanish site, then this is fine with me. > More the issue is the reaction of people when a copyright contacts them > to have software withdrawn - to date, I have been attacked because it > must be my fault for asking for the software to be taken down. I would never attack you, but I can understand that people are not happy about it. And if this was software you had written to begin with I would be totally on your side. But it's only software other people have written a long time ago and I have already explained what I think about this, so I won't write it again. > Could I ask what your approach would be if you found (before QPC2 was > made freeware), sites who just offer free downloads of QPC2, QPCPrint > etc? Would you have been happy and let them do it whilst you were > continuing to sell the programs yourself? Don't muddle the issue. We're strictly talking about software here that was written a long time ago and which the original authors have long lost interest in. I still support QPC2 EVEN though I made it free. > Unfortunately yes - as has been shown by someone reporting illegal file > sharing to the hosting company of one of the sites concerned Yes, someone. I really wonder who that was... >> The thing hit the fan when somebody send take-down notices to a site >> that has actually put copies for everybody to use on the internet. So >> we're left with less copies than there were before. > But the software was mainly software which could readily still be > purchased online from myself and Jochen. For example? I only see 3 QL software products left on Jochen's page to purchase, which is QMENU, Lonely Joker and QD (last updated 13 years ago! With my help even). And yes, I think at least QD and QMENU should now be free, too. > Rather than concentrating on trying to increase the range of free QL > software available, it tends to be the same 10 titles or so which were > published by a similar site in 2014 (and subsequently removed at the > request of the copyright holders). Who are those mysterious copyright holders? The last request at the Spanish site was apparently anonymous. How can an anonymous person claim copyright to anything? I can't imagine Jochen sending out any take down orders either. > Unfortunately, in the 9 years since I decided off my own back to set up > the QL Wiki and start preserving what QL software I could, the number of > people who have shown willing to help take the project any further > forward can be counted on one hand. Once again, I appreciate any work you have done. I also have contributed to the Wiki a bit, but I was far too young back then so I don't really know most of the titles listed. And will probably never know them because they have either been taken down or are just available "commercially". But ok, I will try to exert what little influence I have left to get a few more titles released. > If you want to go some other way and do file sharing of copyright > material, then unfortunately, I will not be part of this. Once again, I won't and nobody expects you to do so. But if somebody wants to host abandonware, more power to them in my eyes. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] R: R: Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
Obiouvsly and you need to have all our support naturally ;) I do the same: I buy each kind of QL stuff for preserve and I sell the doubles in good conditions. So I understand you very well dear. Kora Sistemi Informatici Via Cavour 1, 46030 San Giorgio di Mantova MN Tel/Fax +39 0376 371059 P. IVA: 02048930206 -Messaggio originale- Da: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] Per conto di Rich Mellor Inviato: mercoledì 6 luglio 2016 14:12 A: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Oggetto: Re: [Ql-Users] R: Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject On 06/07/2016 13:09, Simone Voltolini wrote: > "Your email is understandably aimed at authors. Please bear in mind > the rough treatment Rich Mellor has had from some quarters for nothing > more than trying to keep some form of QL trading going. I presume that > things like keyboard membranes might not be available were it not for > the little profits Rich makes from his commercial activities. > > Dilwyn Jones" > > I totally agree ;) > > Actually, it has been the small profits I have made from selling the commercial software and QL membranes which has enabled me to gather the 100s of disks and microdrive cartridges needed to preserve the amount of software I have ! As everyone knows - microdrive cartridges are not very reliable, and when they are listed for sale on ebay, they are not cheap! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services www.rwapservices.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] R: Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
On 06/07/2016 13:09, Simone Voltolini wrote: "Your email is understandably aimed at authors. Please bear in mind the rough treatment Rich Mellor has had from some quarters for nothing more than trying to keep some form of QL trading going. I presume that things like keyboard membranes might not be available were it not for the little profits Rich makes from his commercial activities. Dilwyn Jones" I totally agree ;) Actually, it has been the small profits I have made from selling the commercial software and QL membranes which has enabled me to gather the 100s of disks and microdrive cartridges needed to preserve the amount of software I have ! As everyone knows - microdrive cartridges are not very reliable, and when they are listed for sale on ebay, they are not cheap! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services www.rwapservices.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] R: Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
"Your email is understandably aimed at authors. Please bear in mind the rough treatment Rich Mellor has had from some quarters for nothing more than trying to keep some form of QL trading going. I presume that things like keyboard membranes might not be available were it not for the little profits Rich makes from his commercial activities. Dilwyn Jones" I totally agree ;) -Original Message- From: Marcel Kilgus Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:02 AM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject Rich Mellor wrote: > I shall however, not get involved in software piracy. Really no disrespect to you or your work. But, as a creator of software and probably of the most commercially successful QL software of the last 15 years, I find this whole piracy debate in the QL scene pretty laughable. This is mostly software that hasn't been touched, supported or updated in 30 years. Why would anybody care what happens to it? The decent thing to do for the authors is making the stuff freely available (sans copy protection if possible) once you're leaving for greener pastures. That's what I do with my stuff. The creators have abandoned the software, so what's the harm in having it freely available? Who in their right mind would actually go to court over some MDV image of software they haven't touched in 30 years? So far I've kept quiet in the debate out of respect for you and your work. But all this is against my common sense. I can't imagine that this whole commercial re-releasing of ancient software is in any way worth it. It's a bit of a shame, too, I would like to try some of the old QL games, sure, but I would never spend a single cent on them, ever. I would probably only play them a few minutes each, just for the fun of it, and that's that then. And I guess I'm not alone in this respect. The QL is dying (dead?) and keeping stuff commercial is not really helping in this respect. I released EasyPtr for free recently because I was asked how one could obtain a copy and I found it really too embarrassing to still ask for any money for this old stuff. Marcel - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12565 - Release Date: 07/05/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
On 06/07/2016 12:27, Marcel Kilgus wrote: Dilwyn Jones wrote: This is the argument for Abandonware. Yet our copyright laws in the UK (whatever individual opinions might be) are clear enough as to what we can and can't do, and our chances of being prosecuted are high enough. Rich trained as a solicitor, he should know. The traffic laws are also clear enough to me, still I'm occasionally prone to a parking violation. Hosting old software is more problematic than parking on a double yellow line (sorry not sure what the equivalent is in Germany). The danger is that if the copyright holder does not like it, then both you and the hosting company can be fined or imprisoned (some governments bring the action on behalf of the copyright holders, so it is not a question of each copyright holder bringing a separate court action). As a result hosting companies are also very jumpy about copyright infringement and soon disable access to websites where it is flaunted. As I have said in posts elsewhere, if someone wants to take the risk and set up a repository, that is fine, but I will not be a part of illegal file sharing (which is what it amounts to) and cannot take the risk of losing my websites and being prosecuted for breach of international copyright. More the issue is the reaction of people when a copyright contacts them to have software withdrawn - to date, I have been attacked because it must be my fault for asking for the software to be taken down. Some of the QL copyrights are actually still linked to trading companies, and may have rights issues of their own (such as the Metacomco compilers). However, just ignoring the copyright holders and not bothering to approach them, is more likely to anger them and see less software released as freeware than being pro-active and asking for permission. Once contact has been made with authors/copyright holders, Rich generally passes on software to me to make public unless the author forbids it - the ones that get published are the choice of the copyright holder. By and large, you don't hear of just how many QL programs Rich has secured permission to pass on to me to make available, many times what few he re-publishes. But people rarely credit him for that side of his work. People rarely credit anything these days, perhaps there are simply too few people left to give credit? And the few that might come our way are actively discouraged because much of the software is still commercial. It has been left to me up to now to approach copyright holders. The more people that approach them, the better, as that is more likely to get more of the software re-released as freeware. However, no-one else is willing to do this. Could I ask what your approach would be if you found (before QPC2 was made freeware), sites who just offer free downloads of QPC2, QPCPrint etc? Would you have been happy and let them do it whilst you were continuing to sell the programs yourself? The whole preservation thing has revolved around trying to keep copies of as many QL softwares as possible ready for the day when the authors take the same attitude as you (it can't be released unless there are copies - most of the authors Rich managed to contact had no copies of their own software to offer us). And you really think that people who didn't even care enough to keep a copy of their OWN software would try prosecuting somebody for putting it online? Unfortunately yes - as has been shown by someone reporting illegal file sharing to the hosting company of one of the sites concerned As I say, it is not necessarily a case of the copyright holder trying to bring a court case - certainly the US and Spanish governments will issue take down notices and prosecutions on behalf of copyright holders. If the authors persist in trying to keep programs commercial, however futile it might seem, that's their right I suppose, but without the huge effort people like Rich have put in there would be no copies of the software to make available anyway. The thing hit the fan when somebody send take-down notices to a site that has actually put copies for everybody to use on the internet. So we're left with less copies than there were before. But the software was mainly software which could readily still be purchased online from myself and Jochen. Rather than concentrating on trying to increase the range of free QL software available, it tends to be the same 10 titles or so which were published by a similar site in 2014 (and subsequently removed at the request of the copyright holders). If people stopped moaning and started working together to compile a proper QL repository, similar to World of Spectrum say, then great. Unfortunately, in the 9 years since I decided off my own back to set up the QL Wiki and start preserving what QL software I could, the number of people who have shown willing to help take the project any further forward can be counted
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
On 6 Jul 2016 at 11:35, Dilwyn Jones wrote: > [Snip] > > Your email is understandably aimed at authors. Please bear in mind the rough > treatment Rich Mellor has had from some quarters for nothing more than > trying to keep some form of QL trading going. I presume that things like > keyboard membranes might not be available were it not for the little profits > Rich makes from his commercial activities. I think the right question to ask in the extremely small QL scene today is "who is still capable+willing to work at all?" and then try to respect the conditions, even if they don't exactly meet the personal taste. Rich does significant work, so if a little profit is needed for him, I simply respect that. I hope that Rich will continue his other QL activities. All the best Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal SoftwarePreservationProject
The traffic laws are also clear enough to me, still I'm occasionally prone to a parking violation. He he, Marcel would rather pay a parking fine than buy a QL software ;-) And you really think that people who didn't even care enough to keep a copy of their OWN software would try prosecuting somebody for putting it online? Probably not, but I'd personally rather not risk it. I'm not rich enough. There are plenty of sharks around (solicitors waiting for any excuse to pounce). In other words, I broadly agree with what you say, and I have sympathy with Rich's position too. In an ideal world... Anyway, QLing these days is about nostalgia and hobby (that word, retro). If anyone wants to buy new QL software, that's fine, if they don't, that's fine too. Let the market decide - Rich would soon stop selling them if nobody bought them. Ultimately, the people who p***ed Rich off might well end up costing us the whole preservation project unless someone else is prepared to step in - ideally someone with no commercial interests so that this side of it isn't a problem in the future. Dilwyn - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12565 - Release Date: 07/05/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
Dilwyn Jones wrote: > This is the argument for Abandonware. Yet our copyright laws in the UK > (whatever individual opinions might be) are clear enough as to what we can > and can't do, and our chances of being prosecuted are high enough. Rich > trained as a solicitor, he should know. The traffic laws are also clear enough to me, still I'm occasionally prone to a parking violation. > Once contact has been made with authors/copyright holders, Rich generally > passes on software to me to make public unless the author forbids it - the > ones that get published are the choice of the copyright holder. By and > large, you don't hear of just how many QL programs Rich has secured > permission to pass on to me to make available, many times what few he > re-publishes. But people rarely credit him for that side of his work. People rarely credit anything these days, perhaps there are simply too few people left to give credit? And the few that might come our way are actively discouraged because much of the software is still commercial. > The whole preservation thing has revolved around trying to keep copies of as > many QL softwares as possible ready for the day when the authors take the > same attitude as you (it can't be released unless there are copies - most of > the authors Rich managed to contact had no copies of their own software to > offer us). And you really think that people who didn't even care enough to keep a copy of their OWN software would try prosecuting somebody for putting it online? > If the authors persist in trying to keep programs commercial, > however futile it might seem, that's their right I suppose, but without the > huge effort people like Rich have put in there would be no copies of the > software to make available anyway. The thing hit the fan when somebody send take-down notices to a site that has actually put copies for everybody to use on the internet. So we're left with less copies than there were before. > Your email is understandably aimed at authors. Please bear in mind > the rough treatment Rich Mellor has had from some quarters for > nothing more than trying to keep some form of QL trading going. I'm all for trading in new things. Creating hardware or new software for example is commendable and must be rewarded financially. I myself have a replacement membrane in my QL and that cannot be lauded enough. I have personally bought a QL-SD, even though I don't really use my QL at all. But 30 years old software? Sorry, this doesn't fly with me. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
Hi, Maybe a good idea would to summarise the spreadsheet, so that everyone knows the position. DerekOn 6 Jul 2016 11:35, Dilwyn Jones wrote: > > Hi Marcel, > > This is the argument for Abandonware. Yet our copyright laws in the UK > (whatever individual opinions might be) are clear enough as to what we can > and can't do, and our chances of being prosecuted are high enough. Rich > trained as a solicitor, he should know. > > Once contact has been made with authors/copyright holders, Rich generally > passes on software to me to make public unless the author forbids it - the > ones that get published are the choice of the copyright holder. By and > large, you don't hear of just how many QL programs Rich has secured > permission to pass on to me to make available, many times what few he > re-publishes. But people rarely credit him for that side of his work. > > You did the decent thing and chose the make your software freely available > and full credit to you for that. Most of the software I've written has also > become free, it all will sooner or later as I get time. > > The whole preservation thing has revolved around trying to keep copies of as > many QL softwares as possible ready for the day when the authors take the > same attitude as you (it can't be released unless there are copies - most of > the authors Rich managed to contact had no copies of their own software to > offer us). If the authors persist in trying to keep programs commercial, > however futile it might seem, that's their right I suppose, but without the > huge effort people like Rich have put in there would be no copies of the > software to make available anyway. > > Your email is understandably aimed at authors. Please bear in mind the rough > treatment Rich Mellor has had from some quarters for nothing more than > trying to keep some form of QL trading going. I presume that things like > keyboard membranes might not be available were it not for the little profits > Rich makes from his commercial activities. > > Dilwyn Jones > > -Original Message- > From: Marcel Kilgus > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:02 AM > To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software > PreservationProject > > Rich Mellor wrote: > > I shall however, not get involved in software piracy. > > Really no disrespect to you or your work. But, as a creator of > software and probably of the most commercially successful QL software > of the last 15 years, I find this whole piracy debate in the QL scene > pretty laughable. This is mostly software that hasn't been touched, > supported or updated in 30 years. Why would anybody care what happens > to it? The decent thing to do for the authors is making the stuff > freely available (sans copy protection if possible) once you're > leaving for greener pastures. That's what I do with my stuff. > > The creators have abandoned the software, so what's the harm in > having it freely available? Who in their right mind would actually go > to court over some MDV image of software they haven't tou ched in 30 > years? > > So far I've kept quiet in the debate out of respect for you and your > work. But all this is against my common sense. I can't imagine that > this whole commercial re-releasing of ancient software is in any way > worth it. It's a bit of a shame, too, I would like to try some of the > old QL games, sure, but I would never spend a single cent on them, > ever. I would probably only play them a few minutes each, just for the > fun of it, and that's that then. And I guess I'm not alone in this > respect. > > The QL is dying (dead?) and keeping stuff commercial is not really > helping in this respect. I released EasyPtr for free recently because > I was asked how one could obtain a copy and I found it really too > embarrassing to still ask for any money for this old stuff. > > Marcel > > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12565 - Release Date: 07/05/16 > > _ __ > QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject
Hi Marcel, This is the argument for Abandonware. Yet our copyright laws in the UK (whatever individual opinions might be) are clear enough as to what we can and can't do, and our chances of being prosecuted are high enough. Rich trained as a solicitor, he should know. Once contact has been made with authors/copyright holders, Rich generally passes on software to me to make public unless the author forbids it - the ones that get published are the choice of the copyright holder. By and large, you don't hear of just how many QL programs Rich has secured permission to pass on to me to make available, many times what few he re-publishes. But people rarely credit him for that side of his work. You did the decent thing and chose the make your software freely available and full credit to you for that. Most of the software I've written has also become free, it all will sooner or later as I get time. The whole preservation thing has revolved around trying to keep copies of as many QL softwares as possible ready for the day when the authors take the same attitude as you (it can't be released unless there are copies - most of the authors Rich managed to contact had no copies of their own software to offer us). If the authors persist in trying to keep programs commercial, however futile it might seem, that's their right I suppose, but without the huge effort people like Rich have put in there would be no copies of the software to make available anyway. Your email is understandably aimed at authors. Please bear in mind the rough treatment Rich Mellor has had from some quarters for nothing more than trying to keep some form of QL trading going. I presume that things like keyboard membranes might not be available were it not for the little profits Rich makes from his commercial activities. Dilwyn Jones -Original Message- From: Marcel Kilgus Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:02 AM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software PreservationProject Rich Mellor wrote: I shall however, not get involved in software piracy. Really no disrespect to you or your work. But, as a creator of software and probably of the most commercially successful QL software of the last 15 years, I find this whole piracy debate in the QL scene pretty laughable. This is mostly software that hasn't been touched, supported or updated in 30 years. Why would anybody care what happens to it? The decent thing to do for the authors is making the stuff freely available (sans copy protection if possible) once you're leaving for greener pastures. That's what I do with my stuff. The creators have abandoned the software, so what's the harm in having it freely available? Who in their right mind would actually go to court over some MDV image of software they haven't touched in 30 years? So far I've kept quiet in the debate out of respect for you and your work. But all this is against my common sense. I can't imagine that this whole commercial re-releasing of ancient software is in any way worth it. It's a bit of a shame, too, I would like to try some of the old QL games, sure, but I would never spend a single cent on them, ever. I would probably only play them a few minutes each, just for the fun of it, and that's that then. And I guess I'm not alone in this respect. The QL is dying (dead?) and keeping stuff commercial is not really helping in this respect. I released EasyPtr for free recently because I was asked how one could obtain a copy and I found it really too embarrassing to still ask for any money for this old stuff. Marcel - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12565 - Release Date: 07/05/16 ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
I am also a professional software engineer and do agree in most points with marcel. I try to release everything as good as possible if there is no reasonable financial interest anymore. I do however respect the copyright of each and every program. In my opinion there is no way to offer downloads of any software when the author hasn't given explicit permission. I have great respect in what rich has achieved in this point. Tracking down the copyright holders and getting permission to offer it freely is hard work that cannot be paid enough. kind regards Paul > Am 06.07.2016 um 12:02 schrieb Marcel Kilgus : > > Rich Mellor wrote: >> I shall however, not get involved in software piracy. > > Really no disrespect to you or your work. But, as a creator of > software and probably of the most commercially successful QL software > of the last 15 years, I find this whole piracy debate in the QL scene > pretty laughable. This is mostly software that hasn't been touched, > supported or updated in 30 years. Why would anybody care what happens > to it? The decent thing to do for the authors is making the stuff > freely available (sans copy protection if possible) once you're > leaving for greener pastures. That's what I do with my stuff. > > The creators have abandoned the software, so what's the harm in > having it freely available? Who in their right mind would actually go > to court over some MDV image of software they haven't touched in 30 > years? > > So far I've kept quiet in the debate out of respect for you and your > work. But all this is against my common sense. I can't imagine that > this whole commercial re-releasing of ancient software is in any way > worth it. It's a bit of a shame, too, I would like to try some of the > old QL games, sure, but I would never spend a single cent on them, > ever. I would probably only play them a few minutes each, just for the > fun of it, and that's that then. And I guess I'm not alone in this > respect. > > The QL is dying (dead?) and keeping stuff commercial is not really > helping in this respect. I released EasyPtr for free recently because > I was asked how one could obtain a copy and I found it really too > embarrassing to still ask for any money for this old stuff. > > Marcel > > > > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
Hi Rich, I had a look at the negative comments, which I would say that they do not want to support the QL. They everything for nothing, which was a similar position 10 years ago with the hardware I was trying to supply. I completely support the hard work you were performing, with little or no reward. Nearly every piece of software I bought, is now free. I am probably guilty of not buying much these days. But I think new software is needed for the QL. I am not sure my programming skills are good enough to write quality software, but I like to try. DerekOn 6 Jul 2016 10:09, Rich Mellor wrote: > > In view of the highly negative (and offensive) comments which I have > received on various forums about my approach to the preservation of QL > software, I have now taken the decision to formally close my project. > > It is interesting to read that World of Spectrum is also going through > similar problems due to people becoming abusive to the people who invest > time and money in the site. > > Thankfully ql-users has remained immune, but since all of this is having > a negative impact on my health, and taking me away from the small amount > of time I am well enough to work each day, it is with regret that after > 9 years, my own project has now come to an end. > > It is a shame as over 120 titles have been released as freeware in the > past 2 years mainly due to my efforts in tracking down and contacting > the copyright holders to ask them what they wanted done with their > software. A further 29 titles have also been re-released commercially > as a result. > > The majority of feedback seems to be that my commercial interests are > ruining the software preservation and that a project where software is > preserved and simply made free to download by all is what is required > (without any willing hands to do the work). > > I shall therefore no longer be updating the QL WIki and if there is not > enough interest to keep this going (and updates by others), then perhaps > I should remove its hosting as it is obviously of no value. Similar > comments apply to the SBASIC/SuperBASIC Reference Manual Online. > > The QL community will now need to find others to take software > preservation and the QL Wiki forward - there is a spreadsheet available > for reference which shows the current list of known programs and status > of preservation: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/84m3eizdplf9fv3/%21%21%20Full%20QL%20Software%20List%20-%20Preserved.xlsx?dl=0 > > > There is also the Italian software preservation project - which has been > running alongside my own personal project and concentrates on preserving > img dumps of microdrive cartridges and disks (complete with copy > protection etc) - although again, Simone (Outsoft) has been criticised > for not making what he has preserved to date freely available for > download, in breach of copyright. > > So - where does it go from here? > > That is up to the community to decide. > > There is now a huge opportunity for the community to decide exactly what > QL preservation should look like, how it should be funded and who should > be responsible for preserving the software and maintaining any > repository, dealing with copyright holders and hosting the websites / QL > Wiki etc > > If anyone can provide evidence that permission has been obtained for > even more software to be released as freeware, then I can of course > release it from my stored backups - although you may still need to > remove copy protection, find additional copies to merge together into > one fully working copy, or alter the software to get it working on > modern systems and emulators. I shall however, not get involved in > software piracy. > > > -- > Rich Mellor > RWAP Services > Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services > > www.rwapservices.co.uk > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
Rich Mellor wrote: > I shall however, not get involved in software piracy. Really no disrespect to you or your work. But, as a creator of software and probably of the most commercially successful QL software of the last 15 years, I find this whole piracy debate in the QL scene pretty laughable. This is mostly software that hasn't been touched, supported or updated in 30 years. Why would anybody care what happens to it? The decent thing to do for the authors is making the stuff freely available (sans copy protection if possible) once you're leaving for greener pastures. That's what I do with my stuff. The creators have abandoned the software, so what's the harm in having it freely available? Who in their right mind would actually go to court over some MDV image of software they haven't touched in 30 years? So far I've kept quiet in the debate out of respect for you and your work. But all this is against my common sense. I can't imagine that this whole commercial re-releasing of ancient software is in any way worth it. It's a bit of a shame, too, I would like to try some of the old QL games, sure, but I would never spend a single cent on them, ever. I would probably only play them a few minutes each, just for the fun of it, and that's that then. And I guess I'm not alone in this respect. The QL is dying (dead?) and keeping stuff commercial is not really helping in this respect. I released EasyPtr for free recently because I was asked how one could obtain a copy and I found it really too embarrassing to still ask for any money for this old stuff. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] R: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
I totally agree. I hope all other guys like Detlef and others will continue preserve and catalouge all stuff like are doing. I remember that all information about our preservation project are here (now in English). https://sinclairql.wordpress.com I will always support QL naturally also If some spanigh guys will offend me ;) I hope that Rich will really don't stop to produce his AMAZING boxes because are the only HOPE in the actual QL market. Best regards to all. Kora Sistemi Informatici Via Cavour 1, 46030 San Giorgio di Mantova MN Tel/Fax +39 0376 371059 P. IVA: 02048930206 -Messaggio originale- Da: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] Per conto di Rich Mellor Inviato: mercoledì 6 luglio 2016 11:10 A: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Oggetto: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project In view of the highly negative (and offensive) comments which I have received on various forums about my approach to the preservation of QL software, I have now taken the decision to formally close my project. It is interesting to read that World of Spectrum is also going through similar problems due to people becoming abusive to the people who invest time and money in the site. Thankfully ql-users has remained immune, but since all of this is having a negative impact on my health, and taking me away from the small amount of time I am well enough to work each day, it is with regret that after 9 years, my own project has now come to an end. It is a shame as over 120 titles have been released as freeware in the past 2 years mainly due to my efforts in tracking down and contacting the copyright holders to ask them what they wanted done with their software. A further 29 titles have also been re-released commercially as a result. The majority of feedback seems to be that my commercial interests are ruining the software preservation and that a project where software is preserved and simply made free to download by all is what is required (without any willing hands to do the work). I shall therefore no longer be updating the QL WIki and if there is not enough interest to keep this going (and updates by others), then perhaps I should remove its hosting as it is obviously of no value. Similar comments apply to the SBASIC/SuperBASIC Reference Manual Online. The QL community will now need to find others to take software preservation and the QL Wiki forward - there is a spreadsheet available for reference which shows the current list of known programs and status of preservation: https://www.dropbox.com/s/84m3eizdplf9fv3/%21%21%20Full%20QL%20Software%20Li st%20-%20Preserved.xlsx?dl=0 There is also the Italian software preservation project - which has been running alongside my own personal project and concentrates on preserving img dumps of microdrive cartridges and disks (complete with copy protection etc) - although again, Simone (Outsoft) has been criticised for not making what he has preserved to date freely available for download, in breach of copyright. So - where does it go from here? That is up to the community to decide. There is now a huge opportunity for the community to decide exactly what QL preservation should look like, how it should be funded and who should be responsible for preserving the software and maintaining any repository, dealing with copyright holders and hosting the websites / QL Wiki etc If anyone can provide evidence that permission has been obtained for even more software to be released as freeware, then I can of course release it from my stored backups - although you may still need to remove copy protection, find additional copies to merge together into one fully working copy, or alter the software to get it working on modern systems and emulators. I shall however, not get involved in software piracy. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services www.rwapservices.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List ___ QL-Users Mailing List
[Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
In view of the highly negative (and offensive) comments which I have received on various forums about my approach to the preservation of QL software, I have now taken the decision to formally close my project. It is interesting to read that World of Spectrum is also going through similar problems due to people becoming abusive to the people who invest time and money in the site. Thankfully ql-users has remained immune, but since all of this is having a negative impact on my health, and taking me away from the small amount of time I am well enough to work each day, it is with regret that after 9 years, my own project has now come to an end. It is a shame as over 120 titles have been released as freeware in the past 2 years mainly due to my efforts in tracking down and contacting the copyright holders to ask them what they wanted done with their software. A further 29 titles have also been re-released commercially as a result. The majority of feedback seems to be that my commercial interests are ruining the software preservation and that a project where software is preserved and simply made free to download by all is what is required (without any willing hands to do the work). I shall therefore no longer be updating the QL WIki and if there is not enough interest to keep this going (and updates by others), then perhaps I should remove its hosting as it is obviously of no value. Similar comments apply to the SBASIC/SuperBASIC Reference Manual Online. The QL community will now need to find others to take software preservation and the QL Wiki forward - there is a spreadsheet available for reference which shows the current list of known programs and status of preservation: https://www.dropbox.com/s/84m3eizdplf9fv3/%21%21%20Full%20QL%20Software%20List%20-%20Preserved.xlsx?dl=0 There is also the Italian software preservation project - which has been running alongside my own personal project and concentrates on preserving img dumps of microdrive cartridges and disks (complete with copy protection etc) - although again, Simone (Outsoft) has been criticised for not making what he has preserved to date freely available for download, in breach of copyright. So - where does it go from here? That is up to the community to decide. There is now a huge opportunity for the community to decide exactly what QL preservation should look like, how it should be funded and who should be responsible for preserving the software and maintaining any repository, dealing with copyright holders and hosting the websites / QL Wiki etc If anyone can provide evidence that permission has been obtained for even more software to be released as freeware, then I can of course release it from my stored backups - although you may still need to remove copy protection, find additional copies to merge together into one fully working copy, or alter the software to get it working on modern systems and emulators. I shall however, not get involved in software piracy. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services www.rwapservices.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List
