Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 21:07:54, Dave P wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Ironically, this is more-or-less what Nasta designed as the Aurora II. My only discomfort over Nasta's design is that he is extremely concerned about efficiency of space. Therefore, he's crammed an awful lot into a very small 6-layer PCB. I would always be inclined to spread things out a bit and go for fewer layers. But that's just me - spending a bit extra on PCB to save the cost in time to shoehorn all those tracks into SUCH a small space ;) It is likely, surely, that the bigger PCB with fewer layers is cheaper. Nasta is just too efficient for his own good ;) ... but he isn't costing his time (8-)# I must say I enjoy, especially with RomDisq, in getting a small compact PCBs, and it helps increase signal integrity. I bet Nasta's design is not as 'crammed' per layer as the 2-layer RomDisq. It was quite hard finding a PCB manufacturer who could routinely handle 3mil PCB track separation. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
To develop a board for a laptop is an interesting proposition. It's about the same as the challenge of developing a board for a PC, but with additional power challenges. The QL uses such minimal power that unless we are using Coldfire this can be ignored. If a QL-replacement board with SVGA output was made in a standard form-factor and the same schematic was also laid out for a common taiwanese laptop case, this could technically work. The likely route would be to buy a stack of itentical budget laptops, and use the existing PSU/battery, HD, and CD/DVD mechanism, and just replace the motherboard. This would be cheaper than designing/buying all those items separately. This is an interesting idea. Would people be willing to pay a $400-$600 premium for a laptop? That has 1/10th the performance of if you'd left it alone and just installed QPC? Yes, if they were serious, while the laptop would be much faster than 1/10th, in fact it will be faster than QPC, while if it uses Coldfire that will bring it into the next league. Do not forget the sales on other platforms. -- Tarquin Mills It's certainly an interesting idea, although the price might make it impractical. Certainly, we don't need all the PC bells and whistles (fastest DVD drives, terabytes of hard disk and so on), so a low end laptop would probably suffice with a fast QL or Q60 type board put into it. Production runs won't be that large, so perhaps buying up cheaper end of line laptops. The idea doesn't appeal to me personally, as QPC2 would be adequate for my needs, but I can see that what might amount to a laptop Q60 (name only used to illustrate the possibilities) might well appeal to some if the price was right. As I mentioned the Q60, if something like a redesigned Q60 was slotted into a cheapish laptop with floppy drive, CD-ROM, ser and par ports and built in screen, it might well fill the kind of machine you envisage. Someone else on this list mentioned that the only really viable hardware route now is for expanding black QLs now that there is no Super Gold Card or anything like that in production. There is a logic to this argument too, especially as Nasta's design work has meant that there may be a viable one already at least partly designed. Keep talking, we may get some viable ideas out of this yet! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
Remember, each different GDI printer needs its own driver... I have mentioned this so many times. ProForma as it stands will only print to printers for which it has drivers and there are no ESC/P raster drivers. The cheap printers have no emulations. Even the expensive printers often have no emulations and some that have ESC/P2 - like my C80 - print from the QL and from Q40 but not from QPC2 which will happily print to the EPL 6200 using ESC/P2. It is a veritable minefield. Yet looking at the Epson documentation, my Stylus 880 for example has a 'raster graphics compatibility mode' whatever that may be. I haven't been able to find anyone able to answer this fully. It seems that some of these textless printers we assume are good for nothing do have a broad equivalent of a graphics mode, some with compression to reduce (and so speed up) the transfer of rasterised data. Since Proforma does devolve text down to raster graphics there may be scope for investigating possibilities here. If it is indeed true that at least some of these printers have raster graphics possibilities, it is definitely worth progressing with Proforma as although it won't by itself solve the Windows-only printer problem, if it does turn out that there is a route to these printers even if only blindly sending graphics data via a PAR or SER port, we may yet see a route ahead with them. As there are plenty of Linux drivers out there complete with sources, it's worth someone with the necessary knowledge having a look at what the Linux driver does. As we have sources for a PAR driver, it may not be beyond the bo unds of possibility that at least some of these printers are accessible even if indirectly. The Epson documentation is much less than clear on this - the raster codes (just two or three) it lists may be just to switch the printer out of Epson mode into Windows-only mode, I can't tell from the documentation and I haven't a Windows-only printer to try. It would be fairly straightforward I think to create a file with the right byte values in it and some random meaningless graphics such as a series of squares to copy_n to a printer, but I'm not very optimistic to be honest. Yuk, this is getting messy. It would have been nice and clear cut if I could have given a 'no chance whatsoever' or 'good chance' reply, but now I find myself in that horrible '1% chance' scenario where I originally thought there was hope, then thought 'no chance' and so on. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] SER/PAR to PFF
Rich Mellor and I mentioned a SER/PAR to PFF string exchanger, along the lines of the old MDV to FLP string converters. I had a go at writing this last night. The coding was fairly straightforward and a simple INPUTSearch for... INPUTReplace with... ALCHP LBYTES SEXEC type of program exists without a front end. What I hadn't foreseen was a difficulty with the strings SER and PAR which don't happen with MDV, FLP, FDK or whatever. SER and PAR can occur within ordinary text and mess up the program. For example, my program swapped the words Service and Pardon to PFFvice and PFFdon. MDV and FLP tend not to occur in English other than in device names. Nuts. Back to the drawing board. This might have to be a more advanced program which shows some text either side of the found string and queries the user whether or not to replace each occurrence. I'll carry on with the program and put a pointer driven front end on it once done, just thought it didn't turn out to be as straightforward as I first thought. Also, if anyone has any ideas for rules for locating device strings by context, let me know, I didn't spend too much time on it and was pretty tired as well which didn't really help matters. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:32:40 +, Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 19:10:03, Rich Mellor wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:00:34 -0600 (CST), Dave P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I know I could have used a serial lead but there is no longer any transfer software available to use this Of course there is. What is wrong with qtpi? That will work with any old terminal program on any platform. Have never used qtpi I must admit - now here's another possible article for Quanta if someone wants to write it.. How to use QTPI and/or transfer files between the QL and PC. I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC Guess you'll say just run QTPI on both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a copy). ... and QuaLsoft file transfer for QL (and PC) still works. Is the QuaLsoft software public domain - can't say I remember seeing it anywhere -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
Rich Mellor wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:43:29 +0100, Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 25 Nov 2004 at 18:46, Rich Mellor wrote: Just add a graphics filter. I'll let this stand as is. I have no idea how easy it is to pass a PIC file to Proforma - Joachim?? Great to know that PROforma has existsed for (I think) close to ten years now, and still hardly anybody knows anything about it :-( Just tell PROforma to produce a bitmap picture of type pic at given position/size. The bitmap needs to be in a buffer somewhere. Joachim ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 01:33:47 -, P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wolfgang Lenerz writes: To to this within the device driver will be a non trivial task because you wil have to open a filing system channel from withing the open call of a non filing system device driver. That's what the FILTER THING would be very good for. Probably not (?). I presume the 'thing' use call would open the channel to the filing system. If you call the thing use routine from within the PFF channel open call (which is what I see proposed), you have the same problem as you will STILL be within the channel open call when using the 'thing'! Or skip the Thing altogether and make its fuctionality part of the PFF device driver: On the Open call the PFF device driver's primary functions are decode the name check the details set up and configure a channel definition block If all of the above are ok then, on exiting, set the calling job's program counter to a subroutine that starts an independent job that opens any channels and keeps things moving, ie a Driver JOB, and then returns to the calling job, where it left off, with a channel ID. Trouble is Per, that you cannot do all this within a device driver because it is running in supervisor mode. I also understand that a non-directory device cannot open a channel to a file This is why the THING was envisaged The Driver Job could then set up the appropriate Filter Program for that protocol (is this really needed?) and provide it with an input pipe which would be connected with the driver at the other end and operated like a queue via normal serial IO. Different protocols are needed to handle different QL programs and add extra functionality. Not really too much trouble to add support for different protocols - its more a question of whether the filters are written to support them -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:46:45 +, Derek Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I do not want to run Linux or Windows, so that makes the current laptops a non starter. Derek Ooh - a call for QPC 1 :-) -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
Of course there is. What is wrong with qtpi? That will work with any old terminal program on any platform. Have never used qtpi I must admit - now here's another possible article for Quanta if someone wants to write it.. How to use QTPI and/or transfer files between the QL and PC. Just as Tony recovers from the Quanta questionnaire there's an ideal next job for him ;-) I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC Guess you'll say just run QTPI on both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a copy). Sernet is probably just as viable a solution, if you can get it to connect between the machines in question. Sernet and QL-PC Fileserver must work at about the same speed (i.e. limited by serial ports) I'd have thought. Pity Qubide doesn't do QXL.WIN or you might have been able to speed up disk transfer with an IDE Iomega Zip or EZ135 drive or some such device capable of connection to QL and PC. If Duncan Neithercutt or Wolgang Lenerz are listening, could programs like QCDEZE or QXLWIN help put files into a QXL.WIN on a zip disk on a Qubide equipped QL? There was also a version of Discover which I remember Dave Walker proposing at one point for Qubides, don't know how far that got. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] SER/PAR to PFF
The other option is to check the word before the string to see if it contains the right length (ie. 3 to 6 characters??). If the value 3 then just check for permitted characters at the end of the SER or PAR device (eg. ser1ex) - not too sure what the allowable characters are and my reference manual is not handy at the mo Have a look in the appendix :-) What it must be like to have brains :-) Tiredness was my excuse, honest guv! Will try this tonight... As you say, just test what is the longest reasonably permitted SER or PAR device name and if what comes before the SER or PAR is a valid ASCII text character or space it can't be a device name as it must have a string length counter before it (unless it's stored as linefeed delimited string in which case I just find the LF shortly after the SER or PAR.) Right, must get back off this list (most interesting periods on this list for some time recently!) and do some paid work! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
I have no idea how easy it is to pass a PIC file to Proforma - Joachim?? Great to know that PROforma has existsed for (I think) close to ten years now, and still hardly anybody knows anything about it :-( The term is more like knew rather than knows. I probably have forgotten more about it than I know now. These days I tend to only use it when I use Line Design. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:46:04 +0100, Joachim Van der Auwera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rich Mellor wrote: Trouble is Per, that you cannot do all this within a device driver because it is running in supervisor mode. I also understand that a non-directory device cannot open a channel to a file This is why the THING was envisaged As the thing will be called in supervisor mode itself, it could just keep track of some ready for use channels which are then passed to the device driver when needed. Then the problem is fully solved. The thing itself checks whether there are still enough waiting devices and allocates new devices in user mode which are queued for use by the device (in supervisor mode). Joachim ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hmm - still hoping someone will put themselves forward to look at writing the THING Does anyone have some source code I could look at for creating THINGs and using them?? Need more than a simple example I guess - would of course not disclose it to anyone without permission if it is for a commercial product -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Questionnaire
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tony Firshamn wrote: We have about 50 on-line replies already so far - very encouraging. It is interesting seeing some old names popping up that I had thought were long away from the QL scene, notably Frank Davis and Michael Cronsten. Does anyone know who Ole Moses is? I had some childish comments from comp.sys.sinclair, and I am suspicious. My apologies if it is a genuine response, but I have my doubts. He is not on any of my databases and has an odd email. Is there really a .us suffix? Yes, though most domains in the USA do not use it, the ORSAM show website has had visitors from .us (and 90+ other ccTLD and gTLD). I wrote an article about TLDs for a magazine called Archive, suggesting that as the USA barely uses .us we should remove control of the gTLD from ICANN and create many more gTLDs. I will rig ACCUS ISP (if it happens) to allow shortenings like firshman.uk (hopefully) though thanks to NTL HTTP Proxy cache not firshman.ql unfortunately. There are a lot (the majority I think) of overseas replies. With my Spectrum +4 petition (http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Sinclair) nearly every signature apart from mine is from overseas, where as the Bring Back YS petition has mainly UK people on it. Perhaps the YS was not circulated around the world as much. Please do fill it in, even if you _do_ think it is simplistic and awful. If nothing else, it might encourage certain notable programmers who seem discouraged by lack of feedback and interest. Tony I will try again now that it is full operational. /me goes over to CSS to have a look. -- Tarquin Mills ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society) http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
Ooh - a call for QPC 1 :-) -- Rich Mellor What makes you think he wants to run DOS??? Dilwyn Jones Yeah but at least you could set up the boot sector to boot straight into QPC1 and therefore avoid seeing DOS altogether (could you not?? Or was that just QXL) ?? -- Rich Mellor Good point. During my recent XPriences I had to set my PC to boot up from CD, as the CD would not install from DOS. At one point when I totally confused myself, the PC, the CD and everything the CD intelligently loaded FreeDOS (which I didn't even know was there) and gave me the polite message I can't run without Windows. So now I know that I have something like FreeDOS on one of my CDs ;-) You might need a few things in config.sys or autoexec.bat like mouse driver, himem.sys or whatever else QPC1 might need, but I'm sure Darren has done something like this before (which is probably where else I've heard the name FreeDOS), the PC which is used ONLY for QPC1 and sod everything else! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
Rich Mellor wrote: Does anyone have some source code I could look at for creating THINGs and using them?? Need more than a simple example I guess - would of course not disclose it to anyone without permission if it is for a commercial product 1) Have a look at Jochen's THING articles in QL Today (think there's copies on either the documentation CD or documentation website or both). 2) While on the documentation website, have a look at other entries in the Thing section, don't remember if there's any examples in there. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On 26 Nov 2004 at 1:33, P Witte wrote: (...) On the Open call the PFF device driver's primary functions are decode the name check the details set up and configure a channel definition block yes, indeed! If all of the above are ok then, on exiting, set the calling job's program counter to a subroutine that starts an independent job that opens any channels and keeps things moving, ie a Driver JOB, and then returns to the calling job, where it left off, with a channel ID. This poses a certain number of problems, not alone that of not knowing at all where the calling job's PC lies. After all, by the time your (my) device driver open routine is called, there are so many things on the stack including return addresses within the IOSS (the very first one, for example, is one), that I would be very hesitant to say ok, this is the job's routine address and I'll change that. Wolfgang The Driver Job could then set up the appropriate Filter Program for that protocol (is this really needed?) I don't belive it, but Rich does. (...) Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On 25 Nov 2004 at 20:44, Rich Mellor wrote: The trouble is locating them - if these printers are so readily available at low prices, then what exactly are we developing this for as the QL can already output PCL 3 (just not the later versions). Well all I (innocently) did to get this started was to write an ASCII to PROfoma transformer... I stil think that the mian printing should be done from PROforma, after all Joachim did a great job there! Easiest thing is to print a test page from Quill as it includes some codes at the start which also need to be ignored ESC @ - reset printer ESC C n - set page length in lines CHR$(13) - Carriage Return CHR$(10) - Line Feed CHR$(12) - Form Feed ESC R n - Select international character set - used to translate £ symbol (n=0 is USA, n=3 is UK) ESC E - Bold on ESC F - Bold off ESC 4 - Italics on ESC 5 - Italics off ESC - n - Underline on / off (n=1,49 ON or 0,48 OFF) ESC S 0 and ESC S 48 - Superscript on ESC S 1 and ESC S 49 - Subscript on ESC T - turn off subscript / superscript OK, I'll see what I can do. Those are probably the main ones from memory - the translates are the problem areas. (...) If only all programs could output to a file - certainly accounts programs do not allow you to do this - as this is part of the security - prevents you from altering the reports by hand. OK, hence the PFF driver... Yes lol !! Chances are however, they will forget to launch the second print spooler program. OK. I've been thinking about that a few days now, and the only thing I can come up with to avoid that is that you have some kind of background job that is suspended until(either a byte is set in a thing or a byte is present in a pipe etc...) Of course, the job only needs to come up every x seconds. This is feasable. I find this scheme intellectually unsatisfying, though, since it seems wasteful to me as you will have a job querying th byte/channel/whatever periodically, thus eating up resources (memory -the job is loaded, time - the job runs) But I have been unable to think of something better. Anbody ? Yes but why should the QL be limited like this - it is much easier if you can add a job to a print queue and close the current program you are using. Ok, so now we aren't talking about a printer conversion, but about print spooling/queuing etc A whole new ballgame (...) What if this punter wants to print 1000 files at the same time to 1000 different printers hanging off a super USB interface, some of which use Epson emulation, some others Postscript, yet others GDI and whatnot? Do we care if he can't do that? Not that hypothetical - if the user is using a complicated filter (eg. convert to postscript), then they could be waiting a while, without actually knowing what is going on in the background as there is no reassuring noise of the printer running. You're pleading my case here - if they then initiated the printing via a separate print job, that could keep them informed... (...) I have no idea how easy it is to pass a PIC file to Proforma - Joachim?? No it isn't olny that. Until now, we've been talking text conversion programs. No you're mixing (?) text graphices. This is a different league. (...) Yes this would be easier IF the user has enough memory to hold the document in a pipe Remember we want to aim this at the lowest common denominator. No we don't. We need somebody with a machine big enough to run Proforma, PTR_GEN (for things) etc. At least a Gold Card, I'd say. (...) Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On 26 Nov 2004 at 10:10, Rich Mellor wrote: (...) I wonder why it will not print from QPC2. ?? Me too! If the same printer prints from the Q60, QPC should be able to handle it, too. Unless it's the way the printer port is set up in your bios (ECP EPP and whatnot) ? Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On 26 Nov 2004 at 10:06, Rich Mellor wrote: (...) I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC Guess you'll say just run QTPI on both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a copy). I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to achieve here? Copying files to/from a PC to/from a QL? Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On 26 Nov 2004 at 11:46, Joachim Van der Auwera wrote: As the thing will be called in supervisor mode itself, it could just keep track of some ready for use channels which are then passed to the device driver when needed. Then the problem is fully solved. The thing itself checks whether there are still enough waiting devices and allocates new devices in user mode which are queued for use by the device (in supervisor mode). There's something I don't understand. When will the thing allocate devices in user mode? Perhaps we can agree that a thing never does any...thing by itself. The only time something is achieved with a thing is when a JOB calls the thing's use routine. Then that thing use routine is executed as if it was part of the job's code. To allocate new devices in user mode a job would have to call the thing in user mode, and we're back to the beginning (at least I think we are). Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On 26 Nov 2004 at 13:11, Rich Mellor wrote: (...) Basically yes - Di-rens fileserver program allowed you to use the PCs hard drive as storage for the QL - useful for backups at least - no need for a QL emulator and all the header info etc was automatically stored and retrieved when you tried to copy files back from the PC to the QL. How were the PC and the QL connected for that program? (...) Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
Rich Mellor writes: Or skip the Thing altogether and make its fuctionality part of the PFF device driver: On the Open call the PFF device driver's primary functions are decode the name check the details set up and configure a channel definition block If all of the above are ok then, on exiting, set the calling job's program counter to a subroutine that starts an independent job that opens any channels and keeps things moving, ie a Driver JOB, and then returns to the calling job, where it left off, with a channel ID. Trouble is Per, that you cannot do all this within a device driver because it is running in supervisor mode. I also understand that a non-directory device cannot open a channel to a file This is why the THING was envisaged I KNOW, and this is a way round the problem. NO channels are opened inside the driver - just as shown above. And whether a Thing or a Job is used to manage the different stages of the printing utility doesnt really make a difference. Jobs are more universal (Hot_rext is required for Things as its not part of Qdos) and the only Things that actually do any unsupervised work anyway are EXECutable Things - ie jobs. The Driver Job could then set up the appropriate Filter Program for that protocol (is this really needed?) and provide it with an input pipe which would be connected with the driver at the other end and operated like a queue via normal serial IO. Different protocols are needed to handle different QL programs and add extra functionality. Not really too much trouble to add support for different protocols - its more a question of whether the filters are written to support them You seem to forget that straight ASCII is understood by ESC/P2, so you could LIST a Basic program to the device driver/printer utility that only supported EAS/P2. Other application programs will usually come with their own printer drivers. If these are all configured to use ESC/P2 then there is no need to support any other protocol. Graphics programs will have drivers that provide the codes required to show that it is not just outputting plain text. Again, if the ESC/P2 driver were chosen then that would simplify the whole design of this project by cutting out another unnecessary middleman! Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
Rich Mellor writes: Hmm - still hoping someone will put themselves forward to look at writing the THING Does anyone have some source code I could look at for creating THINGs and using them?? Need more than a simple example I guess - would of course not disclose it to anyone without permission if it is for a commercial product I hope nobody's thinking about writing a single line of fuctional code before the design is finalised. I think weve all seen what that could lead to.. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] SER/PAR to PFF
Dilwyn Jones writes: What I hadn't foreseen was a difficulty with the strings SER and PAR which don't happen with MDV, FLP, FDK or whatever. SER and PAR can occur within ordinary text and mess up the program. For example, my program swapped the words Service and Pardon to PFFvice and PFFdon. MDV and FLP tend not to occur in English other than in device names. Nuts. Back to the drawing board. Howseabout looking for the bytes 0, 3, P, A, R, or 0, 4, P, A, R, n% and other valid combinations? Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:54:49 +0100, Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 25 Nov 2004 at 20:44, Rich Mellor wrote: The trouble is locating them - if these printers are so readily available at low prices, then what exactly are we developing this for as the QL can already output PCL 3 (just not the later versions). Well all I (innocently) did to get this started was to write an ASCII to PROfoma transformer... I stil think that the mian printing should be done from PROforma, after all Joachim did a great job there! Yes agreed :-) cut Those are probably the main ones from memory - the translates are the problem areas. (...) Best option is to throw some files at the filter once it is running on a wide number of setups. Everyone uses different translates where one character in Quill is translated to various printer control codes, eg. to use italics, get both the # and £ symbol etc... May just need to build up the various character set tables in the filter program to support this... cut Yes lol !! Chances are however, they will forget to launch the second print spooler program. OK. I've been thinking about that a few days now, and the only thing I can come up with to avoid that is that you have some kind of background job that is suspended until(either a byte is set in a thing or a byte is present in a pipe etc...) Of course, the job only needs to come up every x seconds. This is feasable. I find this scheme intellectually unsatisfying, though, since it seems wasteful to me as you will have a job querying th byte/channel/whatever periodically, thus eating up resources (memory -the job is loaded, time - the job runs) But I have been unable to think of something better. Anbody ? Maybe the better option would be for all filter programs to be installed into a common directory. Some form of header could be added (in REM statements, C, or Machine code block) which could be interrogated by the FILTER THING to find out what filters are available for each intermediate protocol - it could then either launch the default filter as required.. (maybe offer the user a list of filters to choose from). The only problem here is if the user only has floppy disk drives and no permanent storage. Maybe they should get a ROMDisq !! Yes but why should the QL be limited like this - it is much easier if you can add a job to a print queue and close the current program you are using. Ok, so now we aren't talking about a printer conversion, but about print spooling/queuing etc A whole new ballgame Yes it is - however, the FILTER THING could be adapted to handle this at some time in the future... What if this punter wants to print 1000 files at the same time to 1000 different printers hanging off a super USB interface, some of which use Epson emulation, some others Postscript, yet others GDI and whatnot? Do we care if he can't do that? Not that hypothetical - if the user is using a complicated filter (eg. convert to postscript), then they could be waiting a while, without actually knowing what is going on in the background as there is no reassuring noise of the printer running. You're pleading my case here - if they then initiated the printing via a separate print job, that could keep them informed... Yes I agree - but the filters are intended to be bolt on programs - they can give whatever feedback to the user they like. Where is this point heading?? I have no idea how easy it is to pass a PIC file to Proforma - Joachim?? No it isn't olny that. Until now, we've been talking text conversion programs. No you're mixing (?) text graphices. This is a different league. Yes it is - scheme as it stands allows this to be developed for the future. If we are capturing standard ESC/P2 graphics data sent to the PFF device (by SDUMP for example), then a filter could spot the header for this and convert it to Proforma (or PIC file) as necessary. The ESC/P2 raster graphics format is failry easy to decode :-) Still not exactly required at the outset is it!! Yes this would be easier IF the user has enough memory to hold the document in a pipe Remember we want to aim this at the lowest common denominator. No we don't. We need somebody with a machine big enough to run Proforma, PTR_GEN (for things) etc. At least a Gold Card, I'd say. Looks like they will also need some form of permanent storage. At least if we persuade users to move onto a Gold Card, they can then look at updating to a modern operating system as well (SMSQ/e) plus bring their QLs into the modern world. We need some idea from the questionnaire as to how many people are still sub Gold Card standard don't we (thank heavens Tony and Quanta did this form in the end) I have at least 3 Gold Cards here for sale... -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:18:23 +0100, Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26 Nov 2004 at 13:11, Rich Mellor wrote: (...) Basically yes - Di-rens fileserver program allowed you to use the PCs hard drive as storage for the QL - useful for backups at least - no need for a QL emulator and all the header info etc was automatically stored and retrieved when you tried to copy files back from the PC to the QL. How were the PC and the QL connected for that program? No idea - I never owned it alas - guess a serial lead was supplied with the package -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:12:46 +0100, Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26 Nov 2004 at 11:46, Joachim Van der Auwera wrote: As the thing will be called in supervisor mode itself, it could just keep track of some ready for use channels which are then passed to the device driver when needed. Then the problem is fully solved. The thing itself checks whether there are still enough waiting devices and allocates new devices in user mode which are queued for use by the device (in supervisor mode). There's something I don't understand. When will the thing allocate devices in user mode? Perhaps we can agree that a thing never does any...thing by itself. The only time something is achieved with a thing is when a JOB calls the thing's use routine. Then that thing use routine is executed as if it was part of the job's code. To allocate new devices in user mode a job would have to call the thing in user mode, and we're back to the beginning (at least I think we are). Wolfgang Perhaps the best solution (?) would be for the FILTER THING to maintain a user defineable number of open channels (say 5?) - it would open them all at initialisation. Then when a filter program is launched to deal with the data contained within one of the open channels, it could tell the FILTER THING (in user mode) to open another one ready... How memory hungry would this be -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 10:06:45, Rich Mellor wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:32:40 +, Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 19:10:03, Rich Mellor wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:00:34 -0600 (CST), Dave P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I know I could have used a serial lead but there is no longer any transfer software available to use this Of course there is. What is wrong with qtpi? That will work with any old terminal program on any platform. Have never used qtpi I must admit - now here's another possible article for Quanta if someone wants to write it.. How to use QTPI and/or transfer files between the QL and PC. Been there. It is trivial. Just a matter of connecting with a suitable lead (as for SERNET). Masses of endless discussion here and everywhere on that. The simply send a file by Zmodem. The receiving Terminal program will automatically receive and save. That is it. I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC Guess you'll say just run QTPI on both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a copy). ... and QuaLsoft file transfer for QL (and PC) still works. Is the QuaLsoft software public domain - can't say I remember seeing it anywhere I guess it is now. I have not sold one for 10 or more years. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 13:11:08, Rich Mellor wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:00:39 +0100, Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] lenerz.com wrote: On 26 Nov 2004 at 10:06, Rich Mellor wrote: (...) I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC Guess you'll say just run QTPI on both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a copy). I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to achieve here? Copying files to/from a PC to/from a QL? Basically yes - Di-rens fileserver program allowed you to use the PCs hard drive as storage for the QL - useful for backups at least - no need for a QL emulator and all the header info etc was automatically stored and retrieved when you tried to copy files back from the PC to the QL. Ahha - you didn't mention headers. In my previous comment, I was assuming files did not need header preservation. All EXEC files would need to be zipped. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 13:29:46, Tarquin Mills wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rich Mellor wrote: Basically yes - Di-rens fileserver program allowed you to use the PCs hard drive as storage for the QL - useful for backups at least - no need for a QL emulator and all the header info etc was automatically stored and retrieved when you tried to copy files back from the PC to the QL. Would be useful still for people with basic QLs (with Hermes / SuperHermes of course) who can't find a miracle hard disk and don't want to put the QL in a case... (unless someone knows of a source of external hard disks that can work with QubIDE??) I use a ROMDisq in this situation, though a new 128MB ROMDisq would solve the problem. (8-)# Technically I could make a 16mb RomDisq with the existing hardware. Unfortunately the minimum chip buy is about UKP5,000, so not on. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
P Witte wrote: Rich Mellor writes: Hmm - still hoping someone will put themselves forward to look at writing the THING Does anyone have some source code I could look at for creating THINGs and using them?? Need more than a simple example I guess - would of course not disclose it to anyone without permission if it is for a commercial product I hope nobody's thinking about writing a single line of fuctional code before the design is finalised. I think weve all seen what that could lead to.. I hope that anybody wanting and having time to actually write something simply goes ahead and does it. We may be building a good spec, but everybody will write it differently. And even having a good spec is no use when nobody can or wants to implement it. Joachim ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Tony Firshman wrote: ... but he isn't costing his time (8-)# If he did, the community would have been laid to rest LONG ago. I think we should all give a round of applause for Nasta... I must say I enjoy, especially with RomDisq, in getting a small compact PCBs, and it helps increase signal integrity. Indeed. The RomDisq is an external part, so it is desirable to make it fit just so. A QL-replacement board can fit a more generous form factor. I bet Nasta's design is not as 'crammed' per layer as the 2-layer RomDisq. It was quite hard finding a PCB manufacturer who could routinely handle 3mil PCB track separation. So THAT'S why your eyesight is all messed up. :) Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
Joachim Van der Auwera writes: A device driver can never setup a job. You didnt read my algorithm: It doesnt. All it does is to CAUSE the calling job to do that. This is an accepted tequnique in Qdos. Don't think so. I would like to know the details about how that would be done. How detailed do you want it? When the Open call is entered the system is in SV mode. The job making the call is the current job The current job's ID is known Current job is known to be alive and is not removable during the call Find its JCB entry Find its SP and increment it by four Put its PC into the location pointed to by its SP (top of its User Stack) Put the initialisation code's address in its PC Exit the Open call, ie return control to the calling program It, quite unconciously, will continue executing the next instruction which happens to be our initialisation code The initialisation code is now being executed under the auspices of our calling program (the application) It saves all registers it uses Sets up the Printer utility job Opens an input pipe for Proforma Connects the input pipe with the output pipe from the application Activates the Printer utility job Restores registers Exits via rts thus handing control back to the application Now I can forsee there might be a problem if the calling job is in SV mode when it makes the Open call, as it would first have to exit SV mode before it could set up jobs, open channels and things, but it must sooner or later exit that mode, and the execution will procede as described. The driver will have to set a flag in the CDB to indicate that initialisation is not yet complete and no data may pass through it before the Printer utility job has initialised. This would only be a problem if the calling job, ie the application opening the PFF device, were in SV mode during the Open call, and then proceded to squirt out data without coming up for air in the mean time. A rather unlikely scenario? To simplify matters (the cheapest way of writing code) only a queue (pipe) would need to be used between the PFF device driver and the page rendering program (ie Proforma or Ghostscript). The page rendering program would be instructed how to output the data by the printer utility job based on settings found in the channel definition block [CDB] of the PFF driver. If it was that simple there would be no discussion. PROforma is not a page rendering program, it is just a library. If you call the library, there is no need for the device. Ghostscript is a program which requires a specific input format (Postscript). If you can modify the software to generate the specific format, then you can just as well call Ghostscript directly, and there is no need for the device. The filter programs are needed to support existing format and render using an existing library (we are discussing using PROforma) Right, so I misunderstood the functionality of Proforma (Ive just downloaded it and am working through the documentation, ditto Ghostscript). It doesnt really matter: Only a single intermediary protocol needs to be used, ie from ESC/P2 to Proforma and this could be performed by the device driver. If one wants Ghostscript support (instead) then the driver would have to support ESC/P2 to Postscript. If you wanted to have both, then either the driver has to support both or the driver could load and register additional modules, eg as part of its loading-and-initialisation process (ie during LRESPRing of the driver). When this is used, to support ancient programs, you need the device. When this is written, you could use this mechanism in more recent programs to make it easier to produce fancy output (hence the native PROforma intermediate format). Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] QD
Hi all , Is there a way to have a normal cursor instead of a x in QD ? /Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: [ql-users] Quanta
Duncan Neithercut wrote: The final statement is the killer to close down the discussion at a premature stage by requesting volunteers for an unspecified project with no known resources and an indeterminate closure. This is from Classic committee tactics to block something new - read the UK local government and civil servants classified training manual 2005 edition, its on the web. Could we have the URI please. -- Tarquin Mills ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society) http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QD
Michael Grunditz wrote: Is there a way to have a normal cursor instead of a x in QD ? x means that it uses a sprite that cannot be displayed in the current colour mode. As it uses the system sprites you have probably loaded some system sprites that are incompatible with your colour mode. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: I wonder why it will not print from QPC2. ?? Me too! If the same printer prints from the Q60, QPC should be able to handle it, too. Unless it's the way the printer port is set up in your bios (ECP EPP and whatnot)? USB vs parallel connection? Just my guess. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
John Hall wrote: I think you'll find that the JCB is only updated when a task switch occurs... When a TRAP#n is executed, the PC and SP are saved on the supervisor stack, hence WL's earlier comment... Oops! PC and SR, of course :-) In supervisor mode, the job's SP is in the USP... Now I can forsee there might be a problem if the calling job is in SV mode when it makes the Open call, as it would first have to exit SV mode before it could set up jobs, open channels and things, but it must sooner or later exit that mode, and the execution will procede as described. This is wrong, for the above reason. Correction. This would work, so long as the job's PC could be found on the supervisor stack by the driver code... John ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QD
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Marcel Kilgus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Grunditz wrote: Is there a way to have a normal cursor instead of a x in QD ? x means that it uses a sprite that cannot be displayed in the current colour mode. As it uses the system sprites you have probably loaded some system sprites that are incompatible with your colour mode. Oh thats why it displays normal on qpc. How do I solve this ? I have no x86 pc to use qpc on and I whant to use QD :) /Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] QD
Michael Grunditz wrote: Oh thats why it displays normal on qpc. How do I solve this ? Well, don't load the high colour sprites. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] October / November Quanta Magazine
Hi all, I have just received my copy of the October / November Quanta magazine, and it is back to being quite a good read, with a variety of articles. Well done to Roy Bereton for his editorship. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Thru the Looking Glass
- Original Message - From: David Tubbs Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:41 PM Subject: [ql-users] Thru the Looking Glass The thought of Rory Bremner and the Two Johns comes to mind, but here we have Three Johns who have shown themselves to be well and truly on the other side of the glass. Talking about the other side of the glass, when I refer to the Quanta committee as being out of touch it makes then sound remote, cold and alien. In practice they are not at all like that. They are talented and able people. However their problem is a benign, patronising, Daddy knows better attitude that has grown up in Quanta over the years. Quote:- Thank you for doing me the honour of electing me as Chairman for 2004/2005. John Mason Oh no John, no John, no ! But that you so believe accounts for the monstrously pompous diatribe recently uttered. It is not so much an honour as the acceptance of RESPONSIBILITY ! Last Sunday Daddy told us children we had been very naughty and sent us all to bed without supper. He told us that if we are still naughty tomorrow he will smack our bottoms very hard. Quote:- Many folk continually whine (and I use that term deliberately) on the mailing lists about why Quanta does not do something with its assets. One of the problems is if a project does not approach Quanta, then can anyone expect Quanta to write a cheque. John Southern, QUANTA Secretary A fine way to whinge at your electorate ! Daddy is very angry because you children make too much noise. But Daddy is kind and Daddy will let you fill in his little form. And if you fill it in neatly and in your best handwriting then maybe Daddy will give you a little bit of pocket money. I can give a couple more examples: When the adults let me talk to them last February after they had had their little meeting, Daddy -- that is my old Daddy not my new one - told me off because I had called them We. I was told I was still not an adult like them and must use You all the time. (Not joking. When I met the Quanta committee in February Robin Barker rebuked me for using we in the discussion, telling me that I should not presume to have the same status as a committee member.) When I did my survey on Quanta membership earlier this year Daddy was very pleased because I got 9/10 for my homework and it was even printed in the school magazine. He gave me a little pat on the head and told me he had put it in his office for safe keeping. (In other words that's something he doesn't have to worry about any more.) Thus even if the members decide they want something in an general meeting, Daddy knows that is what the children want, but HE still has to first consider whether its really suitable for the children or whether he should make changes. And those children they just don't realise how expensive things are. Daddy has to look very carefully after all the pennies. A not for Geoff, if it were up to me I'd back you all the way. Just two reservations, I personally don't think this is the place to hold spats between committee members. And just a cautionary note, not all that is done without authority is ILLEGAL ! Rebuke accepted, but sometimes you can't bring a change without a major crisis. Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
- Original Message - From: Rich Mellor Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter Peter Graf is work on network drivers for the Qx0. What happens if an application crashes while printing, is the PFF device block from further use. Glad to hear it - its such a shame that Peter does not keep everyone informed of what he is working on - it might generate more interest in the Q40 / Q60. Plus someone might be willing to help. You cannot expect Peter to contribute to this discussion when he gets shot at everytime he pokes his head above the parapet. Don't forget that after his last contribution to this list two people told him he was not welcome and only one defended him. He is not there to be switched on an off as we want. If you want information from Peter, why don't you email him privately? I had an extensive correspondence with him over QL2004 without any problems. Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On 26 Nov 2004 at 13:27, Rich Mellor wrote: (...) Best option is to throw some files at the filter once it is running on a wide number of setups. Everyone uses different translates where one character in Quill is translated to various printer control codes, eg. to use italics, get both the # and £ symbol etc... May just need to build up the various character set tables in the filter program to support this... No, definitely not. If printing from (Xchange) Quill use the printer driver I supplied.. (...) Yes I agree - but the filters are intended to be bolt on programs - they can give whatever feedback to the user they like. Where is this point heading?? :-))) Yes it is - scheme as it stands allows this to be developed for the future. If we are capturing standard ESC/P2 graphics data sent to the PFF device (by SDUMP for example), then a filter could spot the header for this and convert it to Proforma (or PIC file) as necessary. The ESC/P2 raster graphics format is failry easy to decode :-) No, the filter wouldn't need to spot that, you'd use another filter. (...) Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, gwicks wrote: If you want information from Peter, why don't you email him privately? I had an extensive correspondence with him over QL2004 without any problems. I have always found Peter to speak his own mind. He is always willing to talk by email. I got off to a very poor start with him, but he was very patient with me and we have a good understanding of each other now. He's cool. That is to say he has actually done something, and released it. It takes a certain degree of stubbornness to do that. Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Me too! If the same printer prints from the Q60, QPC should be able to handle it, too. Unless it's the way the printer port is set up in your bios (ECP EPP and whatnot) Tried all that. It prints fine from the PC and fine from the Q40 and QL. If you plug my Stylus 600 into the same port that prints fine from QPC2. I can print across the network from the PC to the Stylus 600 plugged into the laptop but not across the network from the laptop to the C80. The EPL 6200 is plugged into the USB port on the PC and that prints OK from QPC2 as well. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Derek Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi, I do not want to run Linux or Windows, so that makes the current laptops a non starter. Ah but you are a rare beast, Derek. Most people want to do at least one of these other things. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Marcel Kilgus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes USB vs parallel connection? Just my guess. Nope. We tied that. See other posts -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Good point. During my recent XPriences I had to set my PC to boot up from CD, as the CD would not install from DOS. Did you solve the CD problem ? It only occurred to me today that it was probably a lack of higher driver for the IDE bus that was making the CD not work. It can handle a HDD but not a CD if it is not loaded correctly. These are motherboard chipset specific. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:40:57 -0600 (CST), Dave P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, gwicks wrote: If you want information from Peter, why don't you email him privately? I had an extensive correspondence with him over QL2004 without any problems. I have always found Peter to speak his own mind. He is always willing to talk by email. I got off to a very poor start with him, but he was very patient with me and we have a good understanding of each other now. He's cool. That is to say he has actually done something, and released it. It takes a certain degree of stubbornness to do that. Fair enough, but all I want is for him to post a message to the mailing list or even one of the magazines, letting us know what developments are happening every now and then !! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
The problem is analysing the data, and the big difficulty with the QL survey is that it will be too biased to the users of this list who may not be typical of Quanta members. Yes but they are typical of active QL users the sort of people Quanta needs to court. What did you say you learned in market research? :- )) Duncan Neithercut -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of gwicks Sent: 25 November 2004 21:24 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter - Original Message - From: Rich Mellor Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:54 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter Yes, the survey MAY shed some light on the subject - however, what's the betting that we get no more than 40 replies. What's wrong with 40 replies? It may surprise you but a lot of professional market research uses samples that are not much bigger than that. I have twice done work for a major car manufacturer. Each time the sample was 50 interviews with Dutch users and 50 UK users. The first car we did was universally praised and went on to be heavily advertised. The second was a top of the range 4x4 and we heard nothing but stories of loose ashtrays and malfunctioning computers that could not be overriden manually. Out of the Dutch sample two drivers had had the experience of the car coming to a complete standstill on the fast lane of a motorway. That model was never advertised, disappeared from the range and it is only now after some years that a new version has been released. (Interesting addtional point. It was not in the survey, but I could also tell that that particularly make of car was very popular under devout catholics.) The problem is analysing the data, and the big difficulty with the QL survey is that it will be too biased to the users of this list who may not be typical of Quanta members. Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
Geoff He has done a good bit of shooting also and IMHO for his personal satisfaction first leaving aside the needs of the users who have rallied to his call and invested in the Qx0 series, time and real cash! Its also no suprise that now when he appears some people thoughtlessly continue to shoot first. No matter how talented Peter is he needs a critical mass of interest and support as much as other developers interested in more PC orientated QL things. Those in this other camp desperately need his talents and area of focus hence the shots. It is past time to bury hatchets and act like adults. Those with most status have most to gain by bending a little. Those who may have to concede a little need to realise that not every conflict is decided by a single battle. A step back today does not meet loss forever or oblivion for a final vision. In a dialogue one concession needs to be matched with another. The World is a funny place. Send flames if you wish. I advise asbestos suits if you do. Best Wishes Duncan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of gwicks Sent: 26 November 2004 17:31 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter - Original Message - From: Rich Mellor Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter Peter Graf is work on network drivers for the Qx0. What happens if an application crashes while printing, is the PFF device block from further use. Glad to hear it - its such a shame that Peter does not keep everyone informed of what he is working on - it might generate more interest in the Q40 / Q60. Plus someone might be willing to help. You cannot expect Peter to contribute to this discussion when he gets shot at everytime he pokes his head above the parapet. Don't forget that after his last contribution to this list two people told him he was not welcome and only one defended him. He is not there to be switched on an off as we want. If you want information from Peter, why don't you email him privately? I had an extensive correspondence with him over QL2004 without any problems. Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Nov 26, 2004, at 1:26 AM, Tony Firshman wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 21:07:54, Dave P wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) My only discomfort over Nasta's design is that he is extremely concerned about efficiency of space. Therefore, he's crammed an awful lot into a very small 6-layer PCB. I would always be inclined to spread things out a bit and go for fewer layers. But that's just me - spending a bit extra on PCB to save the cost in time to shoehorn all those tracks into SUCH a small space ;) It is likely, surely, that the bigger PCB with fewer layers is cheaper. http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I would presume that he is using a couple of the layers for power and ground, which will help a lot with the higher speeds and tend to keep noise off the signals. Also, in manufacturing these days I believe in higher quantities that 6 layers isn't much more (may actually be less than) than 4 layers. jim ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
Malcolm, As an alternative on your side can't you set your email program to wrap the lines for you? Both my email programs do this automatically and all the emails that I have received from this list are fitted automatically to my window width which is great! If someone forces hard stops in a line as you suggest, then when the reader gets it and if his window doesn't match the width, he ends up getting some short cutoff lines which are a bit annoying :) Cheers, jim On Nov 26, 2004, at 10:37 AM, Malcolm Cadman wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Certainly, we don't need all the PC bells and whistles (fastest DVD drives, terabytes of hard disk and so on), so a low end laptop would probably suffice with a fast QL or Q60 type board put into it. Production runs won't be that large, so perhaps buying up cheaper end of line laptops. The idea doesn't appeal to me personally, as QPC2 would be adequate for my needs, but I can see that what might amount to a laptop Q60 (name only used to illustrate the possibilities) might well appeal to some if the price was right. As I mentioned the Q60, if something like a redesigned Q60 was slotted into a cheapish laptop with floppy drive, CD-ROM, ser and par ports and built in screen, it might well fill the kind of machine you envisage. Dilwyn ... any chance of setting your line width to 70 characters. ? Like the above. When receiving your current emails they have long lines ... Probably because you are mailing from a different portable PC ? -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
Hi think that I saw Marcel ask this but if not: Lets say that we come up with a way to print to a modern printer. But don't all the printers use USB now? How would they connect to the non-QPC QLs (or QPC on older computers without USB)? Cheers, jim ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
Dilwyn The simple solution is Compact flash cards. A 256MB card is only £30 in PC World - not the cheapest place either. Readers exist on : Qubide, PC and Qx0. The CF people have decided to use FAT16 format for cards upto 1 GB. I expect but dont know that zip drives under this capacity also use FAT16 as this is the Windows way. I also suspect but dont know that all the other formats like SmartMedia and XD etc also use FAT 16 upto 1 GB. The difference will lie in the reseved sectors for PC devices which my programe ignores. Anyone got an IDE multicard reader to test this on or a spare Zip drive, promise to return it? I have written software that allows me to read write and delete from the Qx0 to FAT16 formatted cards with a crap user interface. I expectthat the FAT 16 SBASIC will also work on Qubide Aurora as Qubide also supports IDE CF card readers. At the moment I am finishing the nice GUI which I decided a while ago in a moment of optimism to write using QPTR from scratch. Dont hold your breath but it will be finished, but once completed it should solve the PC to QL transfer for me and for MBs of data. If people want to go above the 1Gb limit FAT32 is not much different from FAT16 - key difference is obviously the size of pointer to FAT table sector. Duncan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 November 2004 10:31 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict... Of course there is. What is wrong with qtpi? That will work with any old terminal program on any platform. Have never used qtpi I must admit - now here's another possible article for Quanta if someone wants to write it.. How to use QTPI and/or transfer files between the QL and PC. Just as Tony recovers from the Quanta questionnaire there's an ideal next job for him ;-) I still think that Di-Ren's software was a good idea - it allowed you to use the hard disk on a PC for storage - now if that could be used to store files within a QXL.WIN file on the PC Guess you'll say just run QTPI on both the QL and from within an emulator on the PC (if user has bought a copy). Sernet is probably just as viable a solution, if you can get it to connect between the machines in question. Sernet and QL-PC Fileserver must work at about the same speed (i.e. limited by serial ports) I'd have thought. Pity Qubide doesn't do QXL.WIN or you might have been able to speed up disk transfer with an IDE Iomega Zip or EZ135 drive or some such device capable of connection to QL and PC. If Duncan Neithercutt or Wolgang Lenerz are listening, could programs like QCDEZE or QXLWIN help put files into a QXL.WIN on a zip disk on a Qubide equipped QL? There was also a version of Discover which I remember Dave Walker proposing at one point for Qubides, don't know how far that got. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:49:40 -0800, James Hunkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi think that I saw Marcel ask this but if not: Lets say that we come up with a way to print to a modern printer. But don't all the printers use USB now? How would they connect to the non-QPC QLs (or QPC on older computers without USB)? Cheers, jim ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Not all printers use USB no But then not all printers are Windows only It is just becoming more and more difficult to track which ones suit our needs - lets face it, in the time its taken to write this email, EPSON have probably removed a couple of printers from their product line and brought out another model. We need to do something... What other option do we have - stick with buying and selling 2nd hand printers? I find it very hard to find a reliable source of second hand printers - when they are posted, they don't always survive the postal system (or the ink leaks out) and few people are willing to test them.. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] The hardware conflict...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, James Hunkins wrote: I would presume that he is using a couple of the layers for power and ground, which will help a lot with the higher speeds and tend to keep noise off the signals. Also, in manufacturing these days I believe in higher quantities that 6 layers isn't much more (may actually be less than) than 4 layers. This isn't as true as you might think, but for design rather than practical reasons. 6-layer boards are usually autorouted. 4-layer boards are more likely to be hand-routed and typically are better designed as a result. 6-layer boards are about 30% more expensive than 4-layer boards even in runs of 10,000. Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 21:23:49, gwicks wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) - Original Message - From: Rich Mellor Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:54 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter Yes, the survey MAY shed some light on the subject - however, what's the betting that we get no more than 40 replies. What's wrong with 40 replies? It may surprise you but a lot of professional market research uses samples that are not much bigger than that. Sixty already just from my web form. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:43:33 +, Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 21:23:49, gwicks wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) - Original Message - From: Rich Mellor Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:54 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter Yes, the survey MAY shed some light on the subject - however, what's the betting that we get no more than 40 replies. What's wrong with 40 replies? It may surprise you but a lot of professional market research uses samples that are not much bigger than that. Sixty already just from my web form. Tony That is a real surprise but at least shows there is some impetus behind the QL at the moment... The results will be very interesting - who is going to collate all the data to come up with the results?? I know that the details from non-Quanta members may not be sent to Quanta, but I do think this would be of interest to them - especially if they make any comments as to what they would like to see from Quanta (which may give incentive for them to join). -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:32:50 -, John Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Hall wrote: John Hall wrote: I think you'll find that the JCB is only updated when a task switch occurs... When a TRAP#n is executed, the PC and SP are saved on the supervisor stack, hence WL's earlier comment... Oops! PC and SR, of course :-) In supervisor mode, the job's SP is in the USP... Now I can forsee there might be a problem if the calling job is in SV mode when it makes the Open call, as it would first have to exit SV mode before it could set up jobs, open channels and things, but it must sooner or later exit that mode, and the execution will procede as described. This is wrong, for the above reason. Correction. This would work, so long as the job's PC could be found on the supervisor stack by the driver code... ...which, of course, it couldn't if the job had entered supervisor mode via TRAP#0 :-( (Time to stop talking to myself and have a beer, I think!) Hmm - this strategy would have benefits - however, it seems no-one is sure if it will work. Guess the only way to tell is to write a short test routine once the initial PFF driver is put together by Wolfgang - look forward to seeing what happens!! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
- Original Message - From: Rich Mellor Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 7:47 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter Fair enough, but all I want is for him to post a message to the mailing list or even one of the magazines, letting us know what developments are happening every now and then !! As it happens I am corresponding with Peter on another subject at the moment and have just emailed him. I took the opportunity of telling him of this thread and said people would be interested to hear of relevant Q60 developments. I did suggest that maybe private emails are better. BTW my impression is that there is a willingness on both sides to forget the arguments of the past. I was quite worried about the licence debate boiling up into a major row at QL2004 and spoiling the show if Peter came. (And I wanted him to be present.) I found both sides in the argument were prepared to be flexible to prevent that happening. We just have to be careful on both sides to avoid the subjects we know are too sensitive. Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] May Day, May Day
Not waving - drowning ! The first 60 of todays avalanche amounted to 287642 bytes in 6110 lines. removing the voluminous headers - 2497 lines. down to 2000 without signatures 1100 lines of largely irrelevant quoted text A net 900 lines 31kb. Is this really the medium for the task ? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 22:12:26, Rich Mellor wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:43:33 +, Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 21:23:49, gwicks wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) - Original Message - From: Rich Mellor Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:54 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Proforma Filter Yes, the survey MAY shed some light on the subject - however, what's the betting that we get no more than 40 replies. What's wrong with 40 replies? It may surprise you but a lot of professional market research uses samples that are not much bigger than that. Sixty already just from my web form. Tony That is a real surprise but at least shows there is some impetus behind the QL at the moment... I also mentioned on comp.sys.sinclair and told all those on my emailshot list. Quite a few people I thought had long since retired from the QL scene are popping up. Frank Davis is a notable one. He is still quietly keeping his had in it seems. The results will be very interesting - who is going to collate all the data to come up with the results?? I know that the details from non-Quanta members may not be sent to Quanta, but I do think this would be of interest to them - especially if they make any comments as to what they would like to see from Quanta (which may give incentive for them to join). John Southern is getting all the results. He said something to the effect that anything Quanta does is likely to benefit non-Quanta members too, so they should have some input. I am going to create an Archive export file of the results and give to John. I have saved to disk in text form. so they will be easily processable. John S - what are you doing with the paper input? It would be great to add to my database. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] October / November Quanta Magazine
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 22:14:29, gwicks wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) - Original Message - From: Malcolm Cadman Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 6:47 PM Subject: [ql-users] October / November Quanta Magazine I have just received my copy of the October / November Quanta magazine, and it is back to being quite a good read, with a variety of articles. Well done to Roy Bereton for his editorship. As far as I know Roy has never edited a publication like the magazine before and has had a steep learning curve. He even had to learn the mechanics of the process. When you see the results that he is now achieving, I think he deserves a lot of praise, Indeed yes - it is an improvement. He has the perennial problem of getting enough contributions. I would be great to see him forced to reduce the type size (8-)# Well done Roy. (Do you read this list?). Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] May Day, May Day
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 23:00:51, David Tubbs wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Not waving - drowning ! The first 60 of todays avalanche amounted to 287642 bytes in 6110 lines. removing the voluminous headers - 2497 lines. down to 2000 without signatures 1100 lines of largely irrelevant quoted text A net 900 lines 31kb. Is this really the medium for the task ? It is, but I too wish people would use snip more. We all too often get mountains of sigs and disclaimers. There really is no need to include all the rubbish. Tony PS but I sometimes forget of course. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] May Day, May Day
There really is no need to include all the rubbish. Tony PS but I sometimes forget of course. -- Not 'arf ! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Questionnaire
Hello All, Thank you Tony for the hard work and everyone who has taken the time to reply. As the first few paper copies start to hit the letterbox, I can report that so far we have had 38 replies (both Quanta member and Non Quanta members). The main systems are listed as :- 12 QPC 10 Aurora 5 Original QLs 3 Qemulator 3 Q60 2 Q40 1 Qlay 1 QXL 1 SGC Remembering that people can mark down more than one wordprocessor or spreadsheet For Wordprocessors 22 Quill 15 Text87 7 Editor 4 Perfection 3 Paragraph For Spreadsheets 19 Abacus 16 QSpread Regards John Southern ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Questionnaire
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 at 23:33:54, John Southern wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Hello All, Thank you Tony for the hard work and everyone who has taken the time to reply. As the first few paper copies start to hit the letterbox, I can report that so far we have had 38 replies (both Quanta member and Non Quanta members). I have 60 replies to the questionnaire. Are you missing some? Don't manually process the emailed ones, as I will give you an archive database. What are we to do with the paper ones? I guess they have to be added to the database manually . I guess we could leave off the written comments initially. How many paper forms have you had? Don't forget I emailed you some (maybe 25) in one email. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
