Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 at 01:07:14, extdgl42 wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) snip ...snip... +Reminds me of a favorite story from work years ago (I think this is +what's being talked about): I had a particularly important mod due +yesterday. I tried several times to jump into coding without +success, getting caught in tangles of logic, both sensible and +coding. I stepped back, took a day or so to write a page and +a half of structured English, and then the code, less than +half a page, fell together from that. Yes indeed. There was a systems analyst in Kodak who used to write her instructions (to programmers and us users) in pseudo programming language. According to the programmers, it made their work -very- easy. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
Tony Firshman writes:
I keep quoting Lau's brilliant superHermes documentation, but it is
worth repeating.
The sH _asm was vast, but is mainly documentation.
He wrote giant introductions, where he had a dialogue (with himself) on
how to approach basic logic, listing out -all- his thoughts.
Brilliant. Not only does a future programmer know what he did ('cos it
is there) but what he rejected.
Even the version number code was seamlessly integrated, but simply
un-commenting one allocation line in the middle of comment.
On a slight tangent to that, the core of my sb2htm program (which converts a
S*Basic program into colour-coded, navigatable html) was based on an OCRed
scan of the documentation:
Thus
18.4.2 BASIC Token Values
The following section defines the token values used for the internal storage
of a SuperBASIC program.
tkb.space$80 spaces in the listing - two bytes: token, count
tkw.keyw$81 all sorts of keywords:
tkw.end$8101 END
tkw.for$8102 FOR
tkw.if$8103 IF
tkw.rep$8104 REPeat
...
became
...
66 REMark The following section defines the token values used for the
internal storage
67 REMark of a SuperBASIC program.
68 :
69 tb% = PEEK(pos)
70 SELect ON tb%
71 = tkb.space :REMark spaces in the listing - two bytes: token count
72 PRINT#cw; FILL$(' ', PEEK(pos + 1));
73 :
74 = tkb.keyw : REMark all sorts of keywords:
75 tw% = PEEK(pos + 1)
76 SELect ON tw%
77 = tkw.end : PRINT#cw; 'END';
78 = tkw.for : PRINT#cw; 'FOR';
79 = tkw.if: PRINT#cw; 'IF';
80 = tkw.rep : PRINT#cw; 'REPeat';
...
The first thing I tried to do was to get the program to LIST itself (without
using the LIST keyword, of course). Shock and horror! It worked first time!
Its a very handy piece of code as it can be used for a whole range of
utilities that need to scan a S*Basic source file. I'll put it up on my
website when I get round to it.
Great when documentation can work like that.
Per
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Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
James Hunkins wrote: Actually just poorly written Java apps and/or with poorly designed Java development environments. I would presume that since he used to write QL code that he knows how to efficiently use Java too. It makes a big difference if you understand and apply good practices in Java, just like it does in QL coding. So with him, fast might be appropriate. Cheers, jim Morning Jim, I once was having a 'lunchtime rant' in the canteen at work over the new 'improved' Oracle installer which had just been rewritten (re-architected as they put it - g) in Java from C. It was so slow that even the main splash screen had it's own screen to show that the splash screen was loading. Nice. Things have improved a little since then, but java stuff is still slow. My ranting was overheard by the so called 'technical director' who advised me that Java was indeed as fast as C. This was and is total b*ll*x as Java is interpreted byte code while C is compiled into machine code. He was not to be deterred and informed me that he had already implemented two systems, with over 1,500 users each, written in Java and it was fast. I was then astonished when he admitted that Java is slow if it has to deviate from the 'normal' path through the code. I asked if this included hanling errors and he replied that it did. The upshot was, in his two systems there is no error handling and only the 'one true path' through the code is allowed. I'd hate to have paid for those systems ! He's no longer the technical director - he didn't have any technical knowlege at all. I'm no longer the Oracle DBA there either - I work for myself now. :o) Cheers, Norman. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
:) That story sounds all too true. I have actually seen some very fast Java but unfortunately, that is more the exception than the norm. It is very easy to program poor Java code and it can bog down big time. The nice thing with C is that it tends to enforce proper use of structures and better programming habits. Java leaves it up to the individual programmer and software architect to know what they are doing - not always a good idea (to be nice). Cheers, jim On Feb 17, 2005, at 11:34 PM, Norman Dunbar wrote: James Hunkins wrote: Actually just poorly written Java apps and/or with poorly designed Java development environments. I would presume that since he used to write QL code that he knows how to efficiently use Java too. It makes a big difference if you understand and apply good practices in Java, just like it does in QL coding. So with him, fast might be appropriate. Cheers, jim Morning Jim, I once was having a 'lunchtime rant' in the canteen at work over the new 'improved' Oracle installer which had just been rewritten (re-architected as they put it - g) in Java from C. It was so slow that even the main splash screen had it's own screen to show that the splash screen was loading. Nice. Things have improved a little since then, but java stuff is still slow. My ranting was overheard by the so called 'technical director' who advised me that Java was indeed as fast as C. This was and is total b*ll*x as Java is interpreted byte code while C is compiled into machine code. He was not to be deterred and informed me that he had already implemented two systems, with over 1,500 users each, written in Java and it was fast. I was then astonished when he admitted that Java is slow if it has to deviate from the 'normal' path through the code. I asked if this included hanling errors and he replied that it did. The upshot was, in his two systems there is no error handling and only the 'one true path' through the code is allowed. I'd hate to have paid for those systems ! He's no longer the technical director - he didn't have any technical knowlege at all. I'm no longer the Oracle DBA there either - I work for myself now. :o) Cheers, Norman. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 at 14:50:13, James Hunkins wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
:) That story sounds all too true. I have actually seen some very fast
Java but unfortunately, that is more the exception than the norm. It
is very easy to program poor Java code and it can bog down big time.
The nice thing with C is that it tends to enforce proper use of
structures and better programming habits. Java leaves it up to the
individual programmer and software architect to know what they are
doing - not always a good idea (to be nice).
... but C and java do not enforce layout.
Python has no { } at all. The program structure is governed totally by
indentation.
I -always- indent religiously (C and perl) - it helps readability (and
the hunt for the missing } in the middle of code!)
so I was quite happy with this, and python is fast.
Worldnews now tend towards python (with loads of C and some perl)
I would -love- a language that enforced -documentation- (8-)#
I keep quoting Lau's brilliant superHermes documentation, but it is
worth repeating.
The sH _asm was vast, but is mainly documentation.
He wrote giant introductions, where he had a dialogue (with himself) on
how to approach basic logic, listing out -all- his thoughts.
Brilliant. Not only does a future programmer know what he did ('cos it
is there) but what he rejected.
Even the version number code was seamlessly integrated, but simply
un-commenting one allocation line in the middle of comment.
; blah bvlah blooggles
; blah blah and blah and
version = 3.05
; and balh blah blah blah
Tony
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tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255
TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
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Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
-Original Message-
From: Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Feb 19, 2005 12:09 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 at 14:50:13, James Hunkins wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
:) That story sounds all too true. I have actually seen some very fast
Java but unfortunately, that is more the exception than the norm. It
...snip...
I keep quoting Lau's brilliant superHermes documentation, but it is
worth repeating.
The sH _asm was vast, but is mainly documentation.
He wrote giant introductions, where he had a dialogue (with himself) on
how to approach basic logic, listing out -all- his thoughts.
Brilliant. Not only does a future programmer know what he did ('cos it
is there) but what he rejected.
...snip...
+Reminds me of a favorite story from work years ago (I think this is
+what's being talked about): I had a particularly important mod due
+yesterday. I tried several times to jump into coding without
+success, getting caught in tangles of logic, both sensible and
+coding. I stepped back, took a day or so to write a page and
+a half of structured English, and then the code, less than
+half a page, fell together from that.
+What's just as funny is that we were a text-crunching shop
+(and still are to a degree), using (rum droll) FORTRAN!
+But that's another story.
+Doug L. Oak Ridge, TN USA.
Tony
--
QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255
tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255
TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
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Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:35:55 +,() Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: This is what Fred Toussi (Text87) is doing nowadays: http://hsqldb.sourceforge.net/ his email is there on the developer's page. Nice that 'sql' has a 'ql' in it (8-)# Of course SQL is pronounced SeQueL :-) I gather Jochen is supporting this project in some way. Of course, he's making QD a front end to it :-P Ffibys ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
The bit that puzzles me is the fact that it is written in Java, but described as 'fast' and named 'Hypersonic'. Must be a different Java to the one I've been used to. All Java applications are s...l...o...w ! :o) Cheers, Norman. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Fred Toussi
Actually just poorly written Java apps and/or with poorly designed Java development environments. I would presume that since he used to write QL code that he knows how to efficiently use Java too. It makes a big difference if you understand and apply good practices in Java, just like it does in QL coding. So with him, fast might be appropriate. Cheers, jim On Feb 17, 2005, at 10:32 PM, Norman Dunbar wrote: The bit that puzzles me is the fact that it is written in Java, but described as 'fast' and named 'Hypersonic'. Must be a different Java to the one I've been used to. All Java applications are s...l...o...w ! :o) Cheers, Norman. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
