[racket-users] Re: Racket 6.9

[George Neuner]

On Mon, 1 May 2017 15:37:49 -0400, James
 wrote:

>I've been systematically looking at different Linux GUI environments,
>on and off, for a while now.  I currently use macOS on both my
>desktop and laptop but have Linux and Windows virtual machines.
>I might switch to Linux for the host OS at some point.  The thing
>I am finding to be lacking in all the Linux GUIs I've tried so far
>is, surprisingly, some basic usability issues.

The GUI situation with Linux can be confounding to newcomers.  There
are too many choices, and those choices - in general - just aren't as
good as Mac or Windows users have come to expect.

I have yet to see anything on Linux that I would consider close to the
experience of OpenWindows/Motif on Solaris, or to DecWindows on Ultrix
... nevermind Macintosh or Windows.

I haven't much experience with the Unix Macintoshes, but I developed
applications for the old [toolbox] MacOS, and I do remember how it
worked.


>It's things like
>target areas for the mouse that are too small.  For example, I have
>to go back and forth a few times to get the mouse on the right spot
>to resize a window. 

These types of things *usually* are settable.  Unfortunately, the way
is not alway intuitive - e.g., the click area may be in the
preferences for the window manager rather than with the preferences
for the mouse.


>There is often a lack of feedback.  For example,
>you click to run and application and nothing happens.  You don't
>know whether it errored out immediately or it's just being slow to
>start up. 

This is a [near] universal issue with Linux and Unix GUIs.

E.g., on Windows, the "wait" cursor is displayed unconditionally *by
the operating system* for several seconds while launching a new
process - until a timeout occurs or the new process creates its own
window.  While this is going on, the cursor remains in wait style even
if the mouse passes over the window of an open application.

Old MacOS had a similar feature.

But in Linux, the GUI is not at all integrated with the OS.  The
desktop manager (shell) can display a wait cursor while it starts a
new process, but the manager can only control the cursor over *its*
own space.  If the mouse passes over an open application window, it
becomes the property of that application.  

This is a limitation of the window manager library [or maybe how it is
used] rather than a limitation of Linux per se ... but it is there
nontheless.

The desktop manager also is limited because Linux does not provide the
same variety of system event hooks to monitor, and the windows
managers are (somewhat) more constrained by the system security model.
WRT Windows, it isn't as easy for a Linux desktop manager to determine
when (or if) a new windowing application is ready.


>There tend to be a lack of keyboard shortcuts (compared
>to the Mac.)  What would really be nice is keyboard shortcuts that
>don't conflict with the terminal.  So you can, for example, use
> keyboard shortcuts to cut and paste between the terminal and the
>GUI.  Too often, things just don't work and stay that way too long.

Linux is open source: things that are broken [by some definition] stay
broken until someone gets fed up and fixes them.


>For example, in Ubuntu 12 to 14, and possibly even more recently 
>(I left Ubuntu after 14), TCP/IP would not work if you set it up 
>in the GUI.  You had to use the command line.  

I haven't used Ubuntu for quite a while - much of my recent work has
been on CentOS.   I did have trouble with (removeable) PCMCIA WiFi
adapters in Ubuntu 12, but that was a driver issue ... I don't recall
any particular problems with setup.

George

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Racket Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [racket-users] Re: Racket 6.9

[James]

I've been systematically looking at different Linux GUI environments, on and 
off, for a while now.  I currently use macOS on both my desktop and laptop but 
have Linux and Windows virtual machines.  I might switch to Linux for the host 
OS at some point.  The thing I am finding to be lacking in all the Linux GUIs 
I've tried so far is, surprisingly, some basic usability issues.  It's things 
like target areas for the mouse that are too small.  For example, I have to go 
back and forth a few times to get the mouse on the right spot to resize a 
window.  There is often a lack of feedback.  For example, you click to run and 
application and nothing happens.  You don't know whether it errored out 
immediately or it's just being slow to start up. There tend to be a lack of 
keyboard shortcuts (compared to the Mac.)  What would really be nice is 
keyboard shortcuts that don't conflict with the terminal.  So you can, for 
example, use keyboard shortcuts to cut and paste between the terminal and the 
GUI.  Too often, things just don't work and stay that way too long.  For 
example, in Ubuntu 12 to 14, and possibly even more recently (I left Ubuntu 
after 14), TCP/IP would not work if you set it up in the GUI.  You had to use 
the command line.  

James

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Racket Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

RE: [racket-users] Re: Racket 6.9

[Jos Koot]

Thanks,
I tried again and it works now (6.9 64 bit release)
I had to disable part of Bullguard to completely uninstall the 6.8 release.
(It didn't recognize me as administrator. Formerly it did.)
Have run some tests among which a heavy one. Goes well.
Also thanks for your advices concerning buying a new computer
and choosing an operating system
that will suit me well for Racket.
Jos

-Original Message-
From: racket-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:racket-users@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of George Neuner
Sent: sábado, 29 de abril de 2017 22:45
To: racket-users@googlegroups.com
Subject: [racket-users] Re: Racket 6.9

On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 21:05:10 +0200, "Jos Koot"
<jos.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have downloaded 6.9, but was warned that the file does not end
>in correct way. Running the exe anyway gave a DrRacket that aborts
>after opening it.  I have Windows 7 with Bullguard protection.

I would say try again with a new download.  I don't use Bullguard so I
can't say if that was a factor, but both 32-bit and 64-bit versions
install and start for me on Windows 7.  I haven't checked them out
much beyond verifying that they run, but I don't expect any trouble.

 
>Soon I'll switch to a more modern system
>(preferably not with windows; what would be a cheap and yet good
>choice? I also need a good replacement for Microsoft Office 2003.
>I ask these questions here, because Racket (besides email and a
>replacement for Microsoft Word) is my most important tool.)

Just about any modern Linux distro will give you what you need.  Mint
(based on Ubuntu) probably is the easiest to just start working with
if you are switching from Windows.  If you are willing to invest a bit
in learning, I expect that any modern distro will satisfy your need.

Linux has a number of different GUI shells to choose from - it's not a
single ecosystem like Windows.  You may have to experiment to find
something you like.
https://www.howtogeek.com/163154/linux-users-have-a-choice-8-linux-desktop-environments/


LibreOffice probably is the most comprehansive replacement for MS
Office currently ... it has excellent compatibility up to Office 2013,
and some features of the newer version(s).

The word processor "Write" is ~99% compatible with Word.  The
developers concentrate on Write, so the other modules (spreadsheet,
presentation, database, etc.) tend to be a bit behind - but unless you
depend on really advanced features of Office, it's likely LibreOffice
will do everything you want.

However, be aware that there can be issues exchanging files with
Office users.  If you stick to the old DOC or new OpenDocument formats
- i.e. Office 2003 or prior, or Office 2012 or later - you should have
little or no trouble.  The DOCX formats, introduced in 2003 and used
natively by 2007 and 2010 cause problems even between the different
versions of Office.

George

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Racket Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Racket Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[racket-users] Re: Racket 6.9

[George Neuner]

On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:28:56 -0400, Neil Van Dyke
 wrote:

>Stephen De Gabrielle wrote on 04/29/2017 03:18 PM:
>> Ubuntu Linux is cheap, includes an alternative to ms word, gets 
>> regular updates and (most importantly) runs racket fine.
>
>Debian, RHEL/CentOS, Fedora, ArchLinux, and (maybe) Ubuntu are all good 
>choices for people who don't *have* to run Windows stuff.

Quite a few Windows programs can be run on Linux under WINE.
https://www.winehq.org/

Actually a lot of programs that aren't listed in the compatibility
database run fine also.  If the program depends only on documented
behavior of Windows, it probably will run on WINE [modulo version
support for the feature].

Unfortunately, there are a lot questionable tactics and version
dependent behaviors that happen to work on Windows but will not work
in the emulation.

It's a case of "try it and see".


>These are more secure, 

To a point.  Linux isn't [anywhere near] as widely used as Windows, so
it is less of a target ... but there *ARE* security holes and there
have been Linux trojans and virii around almost since the beginning.


>LibreOffice/OpenOffice is there on GNU/Linux for those users who really 
>must have something MS Office-like, but it has many of the same security 
>problems (design-fundamental, as well as code quality), and also doesn't 
>work as well as MS Office under normal conditions, ...

This seems to depend on the environment.  LibreOffice has had a number
of difficulties with OpenGL [but each version improves].  IME it has
worked very well running under GTK.  

I use it both on Windows [gave up MSOffice long ago] and on Linux.


>... and MS doesn't want it to interoperate too well.

Prior to OpenDocument support in Office 2013, all of Office's file
formats were proprietary.  

LibreOffice has excellent compatibility with the old DOC formats
(Office 97..2003) and the new OpenDocument formats (Office 2013 ..).
The main compatibility problems are with the DOCX formats used
optionally by Office 2003, and natively by 2007 and 2010 ... but even
actual Office users have trouble with DOCX formats.


George

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Racket Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[racket-users] Re: Racket 6.9

[George Neuner]

On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 21:05:10 +0200, "Jos Koot"
 wrote:

>I have downloaded 6.9, but was warned that the file does not end
>in correct way. Running the exe anyway gave a DrRacket that aborts
>after opening it.  I have Windows 7 with Bullguard protection.

I would say try again with a new download.  I don't use Bullguard so I
can't say if that was a factor, but both 32-bit and 64-bit versions
install and start for me on Windows 7.  I haven't checked them out
much beyond verifying that they run, but I don't expect any trouble.

 
>Soon I'll switch to a more modern system
>(preferably not with windows; what would be a cheap and yet good
>choice? I also need a good replacement for Microsoft Office 2003.
>I ask these questions here, because Racket (besides email and a
>replacement for Microsoft Word) is my most important tool.)

Just about any modern Linux distro will give you what you need.  Mint
(based on Ubuntu) probably is the easiest to just start working with
if you are switching from Windows.  If you are willing to invest a bit
in learning, I expect that any modern distro will satisfy your need.

Linux has a number of different GUI shells to choose from - it's not a
single ecosystem like Windows.  You may have to experiment to find
something you like.
https://www.howtogeek.com/163154/linux-users-have-a-choice-8-linux-desktop-environments/


LibreOffice probably is the most comprehansive replacement for MS
Office currently ... it has excellent compatibility up to Office 2013,
and some features of the newer version(s).

The word processor "Write" is ~99% compatible with Word.  The
developers concentrate on Write, so the other modules (spreadsheet,
presentation, database, etc.) tend to be a bit behind - but unless you
depend on really advanced features of Office, it's likely LibreOffice
will do everything you want.

However, be aware that there can be issues exchanging files with
Office users.  If you stick to the old DOC or new OpenDocument formats
- i.e. Office 2003 or prior, or Office 2012 or later - you should have
little or no trouble.  The DOCX formats, introduced in 2003 and used
natively by 2007 and 2010 cause problems even between the different
versions of Office.

George

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Racket Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.