Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

@Hugh Smitham As a business, it may come a point where the realization that a particular segment of your customer pool does not seem to fit your business plan anymore is evident. At that juncture a business has a decision to make. They could either adapt their business plan to engulf the

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

There's been a good bit said. So I'll just throw in my .02. I try to support my LBS whenever possible. But when I do I go there with the mindset of I am paying for service and dont really sweat the price. If the service isn't there then why would I pay a higher price? And I dont. I do and don't

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I don't subscribe to the customer is always right. The customer may be misinformed but courtesy is a bastion of a successful business enterprise. Rivendell has always got that. Haha fire the customer that's rich. ~Hugh On Feb 16, 2017 3:40 PM, "panog" wrote: The

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

The customer is always right until they are not. At that point the best a business could do is fire that customer. It works both ways. Pano G. Wash DC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I suspect you have many repeat (and happy customers) and I expect you will even attract a new legion of loyal fans. In fact , may I say, I'm sure of it Ryan F. ever since 1997 and probably not done yet On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 5:56:55 PM UTC-6, Grant @ Rivendell wrote: > > Nobody

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

And yet Stevie's is thriving, even if on a very small scale. Business has improved each of the last 5 years or so, and he's expanded twice in that period, most recently last year. Again, all on a very small scale, but Steve is thinking of taking the family to Europe this summer. Why? Friendly

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I buy from my LBS most of the time. I tend to buy things in advance and bundle my orders, so it is efficient for me and the shop. They typically put in their QBP order on Mondays, so I try to email them just before that with my order. I keep a lot of common parts and consumables stocked in my

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

This is always a fun read everytime it comes up. I never vote with my wallet. I let companies vote for my business with their pricing. I know what I want and I know what I'm buying, I assume that most on this list do as well, I don't need to be sold anything. If I head to a store (of any type)

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Joe, i dont mean to answer for grant, and am not at all certain there's any common thread, but thought this news story from today was interesting - about warren buffett signaling the "death of retail." Seems that even the businesses that once killed the other businesses are struggling to stay

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Yes Bill you did offer an explanation, jerk, 19 people before me asking the same question or derivation of. You did say no one should buy from anywhere that's rude to you. You did say you didn't approve. Then you offered how I may have asked the question with in your opinion perhaps a better more

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

1000 Patrick Moores means 1000 gears! (Joke ignores that he has a few bikes.) Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 15, 2017, at 8:09 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" > wrote: > > A thousand Patrick Moores...now that's something to think about. But of

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

A thousand Patrick Moores...now that's something to think about. But of course, there is only the one, the incomparable Patrick Moore;^) On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 6:56:55 PM UTC-5, Grant @ Rivendell wrote: > > Nobody here keeps score, but for the record...if we had a thousand Patrick

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Ryan wrote "... eloquent in praise of your customs...and you're usually not rude either". Since I've been reading this list from around 2008 or so, Patrick Moore has always been most eloquent and a gentleman. IanA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Grant: What is The Thing that has changed recently? Is it changing tastes in bicycles; less interest in bikes overall; ebikes; or simply the Amazon Effect? Joe Bernard Vallejo, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Hugh I don't know why both you and Christopher Murray seem to think that I approve with how you were mistreated at your bike shop. I said I disapprove of how you were treated. I said it was unfair to you. I don't think anyone should buy anything anywhere where they are treated rudely and I

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

My favorite personal story about buying from Riv is from last year when I decided to move my $1300 CLEM pre-order cash into a more expensive Appaloosa. Grant walked in while I was in the process of paying Roman and said (from the kitchen), "Are you sure you can afford it, Joe?" 'Sure. Kinda!'

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

On Feb 15, 2017 10:55 AM, "Bill Lindsay" wrote: Hugh pointed out something he does not understand: " what I don't get is when you ask a retailer how much they can get a White Industries hub for you? And they give you negative attitude for even asking the question" Hugh

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

yeah...patrick I don't think you have to apologise :) And you've been eloquent in praise of your customs...and you're usually not rude either On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 6:07:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: > > Except you'd long since have driven me from your customer database in >

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Except you'd long since have driven me from your customer database in disgust and exasperation at my excessively weird taste in customs and clothing. (When we were discussing one of my 26" wheel customs, long ago, I said, brightly:"I'll post this to the list!!!" Grant replied, "Don't you dare.")

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Nobody here keeps score, but for the record...if we had a thousand Patrick Moores, we'd be fat and gorgeous. On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Patrick Moore wrote: > One -- I won't say problem, but one factor affecting a decision to buy > from Rivendell or from another

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

One -- I won't say problem, but one factor affecting a decision to buy from Rivendell or from another online vendor or from a LBS or used or whatever, is the "style" of merchandise. I'm fortunately at the time of life and at the period in my bike tastes that I have most of what I want, and my

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

No matter how often we discuss this topic of right livelihood -- maybe once a year? -- I always find it interesting. By and large, I try to buy merchandise from Rivendell and to buy labor from my LBS. Once in a while, I'll buy an item from an online merchant, particularly if, per Grant's post

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

ON LBS or ONLINE or combo: Not all ONLINERS are alike. At one extreme there is the late-20s guy who never left the house or ramped up his resume, but he got into bikes, and cleared the hurdles to getting a reseller's permit. He eats and sleeps iwhether or not he sells anything, but he likes to

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Bill Bill I was replying to your post. I agree that you did not say it was ok to be impolite but disagree that you didn't suggest it was ok or at least understandable given the employee's previous 19 experiences. Giving advice for how Hugh could have handled it differently shifts blame from

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Christopher Murray I agree with you. Who suggested that it is OK to be impolite? You sound like you are replying to my post. Let me quote my own post: *"You definitely didn't deserve to get attitude from the salesperson, and you should not buy from people who give you attitude"* That was

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Ha! No way. I'm the customer and any store employee should treat me in a polite and respectful manner. It's not my problem what the 19 people before me did and to suggest otherwise is laughable. I've worked more than my share of retail. It's not that difficult to be polite-- let's not act like

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Yes, Bob, you are right. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to guilt people for shopping online. I do it a TON. I also buy and sell a lot of second hand stuff on the lists, which I also think it great. Bill On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 11:51:05 AM UTC-8, Bob K. wrote: > > Agreed on

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Earning the money can already be enough of headache. I'm not going to give myself a headache doing the fun part, spending it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Agreed on all counts, Bill. Patronizing LBSs is fun, and I love the connection with owners and workers. It feels good to support real people. But it's not always that easy for me. I tinker with my bikes because it's fun, and I enjoy it, not because I *need *to. Can I always afford to pay my

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I have tried ordering special parts from my LBSand I'm not trying to get a deal and if the effort they expend to order is part of the price, I'm fine with that. Waiting several weeks for a part from my LBS on the other hand is sometimes not OK if I can get it online in a week. It depends on

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Hugh pointed out something he does not understand: " what I don't get is when you ask a retailer how much they can get a White Industries hub for you? And they give you negative attitude for even asking the question" Hugh went on to explain: " I was ready to just have them order the part

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I remember when I first got into bikes I befriended the owner of my local LBS. I think the shop was under a year old at the time. The owner was a great guy and was very patient with me, a new cyclist. One time I came in with new parts on my bike that I mentioned I bought online. He kindly and

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I agree. I get that running a bike store is hard work and the margin's are tough, what I don't get is when you ask a retailer how much they can get a White Industries hub for you? And they give you negative attitude for even asking the question. In this case I ended up getting the hub from a euro

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

A shitty attitude is a damn' good way to go out of business in the bike retail business! Fortunately (at least for me in my area, ABQ, NM) there are some very good shops near me: Fat Tire and Stevie's to name the 2 best, and High Desert is OK if you get good with the owners. >From my own

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:37 AM, Hugh Smitham wrote: > Been there done that, meaning this type of discussion has popped up before > and am glad to see a huge brouhaha hasn't developed. Personally Glen thanks > for the heads up I bought two pair a silver pair for my A.

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Thank you for the behind the curtain explanation. On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 10:16:32 AM UTC-8, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles wrote: > > Interesting update regarding VP Components. As of late we, as a shop, > have been pretty diligent about helping brands police their MAP >

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Been there done that, meaning this type of discussion has popped up before and am glad to see a huge brouhaha hasn't developed. Personally Glen thanks for the heads up I bought two pair a silver pair for my A. Homer a bike which I paid Riv the full freight and a black pair of VP-001 for my New

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Interesting update regarding VP Components. As of late we, as a shop, have been pretty diligent about helping brands police their MAP (Manufacturer Agreed Pricing) online. We've gone so far as to throw brands out of the shop for having little or no interest in controlling the pricing of their

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Sometimes the maker requires a minimum retail price--for a small variety of good or at least well-intended reasons. VP-001 was one of those, but it's not the only one, for sure. If (for example) the Min Sell Price (MSP) of X is $80 and a seller complies because compliance is generally good when

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Keith: It's constructive but never fun. I brought a similar thing up here 2 or 3 years ago, and as I recall I was less delicate. A lot of people got pissed off and I ended up apologizing and hitting the road for a while. It's just not an easy topic because RBW isn't Performance Bike, it's one

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I hope you know i wasn't trying to call you out or critcize you, Glen. I just thought it was a discussion that should be had, in exactly the polite and constructive way that it has unfolded, and for which this group is known. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Was sitting in church yesterday, thinking about the rich man and Lazarus, and added up $240 of Riv-sourced wardrobe du jour. No more than a suit would cost, but I am not that story's Lazarus, for sure. I buy from RBW when I can, and enjoy it. "You do you." -- You received this message because

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

hahah this was a great response. for me, my buying habits also seem to coincide with how much i want to keep changing parts round etc. the less I want to work on it, the more likely I'll just go to a shop and get them to order everything. a lot of the times it's worth it to get the bike to

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Nobody was playing dictator in this thread, Garth..that's an unfounded accusation. It's been a perfectly reasonable discussion about the ethics of posting sales here, with interesting opinions from several angles. As RBW just last week posted that things are getting dire out there for places

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

It occurs to me that we're talking about a bigger issue than whether or not we should post PSAs for non-Riv products on this forum and that the real issue is whether or not we should buy our bike bits online, at our LBS, or a combination of the two. I battle with this all the time, and I often

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

For whatever it's worth, I feel this list is a good place to share good deals on things that others here might enjoy. I also feel like it's a good place to remind people to support the company that introduced (some of ) us to (some of) these products, and that helped bring us together here to talk

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

You're fine for posting as you did Glen :) This is an open group, for "enthusiasts", not dictators. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 2:29:09 PM UTC-7, Glen wrote: Steep and Cheap has Vice pedals along with some others on sale right now. > > $30 for the Vices > > There was a discussion about the Shimano A530s on here a while ago, they > are on sale too. > > www.steepandcheap.com > >

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

"One meteorologist remarked that if the theory were correct, one flap of a sea gull 's wings would be enough to alter the course of the weather forever. The controversy has not yet been settled, but the most recent evidence seems to favor the sea gulls."

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I treat my favorite bike/parts sellers the same way I treat my local hardware store. I go there first. I want them to stay in business because they provide a level of knowledge and courtesy that a big box or large anonymous online seller does not. When you deal with people who have invested

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

well then guess it's nothing to get worked up about. It's a great deal... On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 7:37:36 PM UTC-8, Justin August wrote: > > To be fair: this price is not really rare or exclusive. If you check EBay > you'll see that everyone who isn't a small online bike shop is selling

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

To be fair: this price is not really rare or exclusive. If you check EBay you'll see that everyone who isn't a small online bike shop is selling them for below $50. However, when Riv has stock I shop from them if the price differential is less than 20% or so. But when it's literally 70% off?

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

From my understand large retailers have contracts with shippers. The details are unknown to the public but I don't think it is the same as a per-shipment deal like a small business and the public get. Like some sort of bulk deal agreed upon. So looking at their shipping costs from a

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I like the idea of "if you heard about it from Riv and they sell it, buy it from them as a courtesy." The (usually small) increase in price is worth the mountains of advice I have received from them and you all. "Tuition comes in many forms," as my friend's dad says. I guess they have to limit

Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Mark: do you mean our subsidized roads and motor vehicle infrastructure, or do you go further than this? I'm curious how far non-transportation money helps pay for transportation. On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 7:59 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch < rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote: >

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

In principle and theory I understand the argument against big discount sites sweeping the legs of the little guy. In practice in this group, I tend to disagree with the argument. i went from a 1 rivendell home when I joined the list, to a 4 rivendell home (2 new 2 used). I blame you guys. All

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

For the past month. I've had a spending freeze on non-essentials. No big reason, just on a whim. Like going on a cleanse for my wallet. These pedals are testing my resolve. But pedals are consumables right?:p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Yes, but that dumping is part and parcel of the current economic system. On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 10:15:57 AM UTC-5, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles wrote: > > Quick clarification on my post, I have nothing against > competition...online or otherwise. It's mainly the practice of

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Quick clarification on my post, I have nothing against competition...online or otherwise. It's mainly the practice of dumping large volumes of goods into the market at unhealthy/unsustainable prices (below even distributor pricing). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

I think there is a point to this, but it can be a gray area. Technically, Rivendell is mainly an online seller, meaning they are theoretically taking sales away from my local shop. However, this mostly remains in the theoretical realm, for mostly obvious reasons. On the other hand, Amazon is

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

The thought crossed my mind when I saw the post. My personal decision was to buy a different pedal from the one Riv sells (I bought those pedals from Riv a couple weeks ago), which is something I had already discussed wanting to do recently. I also suggested Grant might like the super-cheap

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Just my thought- nothing more. Hard to express as gently as intended, over the internet and from the keyboard of a smart phone. Definitely dont mean to be critical of anyone - I'm guilty as anybody. For unrelated reasons, the recent talk about business struggles just strikes a chord with

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

You know what? I disagree 100%. On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 8:06:50 PM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote: > > I appreciate a good heads up as much as the next guy, but i do think we > need to reign in the discussions about shopping elsewhere besides Rivendell > - at least on this forum. As Grant put

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

Thanks, Glen. Love the Vice pedal. They have black and silver colors for $30. I picked up a silver pair. >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email

[RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

thanks for the heads up! On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 1:29:09 PM UTC-8, Glen wrote: > > Steep and Cheap has VP-001 and Vice along with some others on sale right > now. > > $33 for the 001s and $30 for the Vices > > There was a discussion about the Shimano A530s on here a while ago, they >