[RBW] Re: While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[Matthew Williams]

I thought you might like this collection of Schwinn catalogs:

https://bikehistory.org/

[image: 1963-stingray-ad.jpg] 

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Re: [RBW] While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[masmojo]

>
> Not sure who has all the pictures of me as a child (mom or one of my 
>> sisters) or if any of them featured me and my bike!?
>
> But, this thread has me thinking and I guess I'll put effort into finding 
them!

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Re: [RBW] Who is using bike lights?

[Eric Floden]

For much of the 1970s I worked in motorcycle safety for a variety of
employers*. And I got familiar with the work of Dr. Harry Hurt. (Ja, funny
name for motorcycle safety researcher...)

I got to read his papers as they were issued, and my own takeaway is this:
road users do not FAIL to see other users**

 - they rank them in a hierarchy, and then there is a continuum of how to
use this hierarchy. Some drivers are responsible and follow the rules of
the road, but many unconsciuosly defer only to those higher up the food
chain. That may vary with fatigue, in attention, and so on. If you look
like a menacing thug on a loud v-twin, you do get respect. If you look less
dangerous, then you get less respect.

(I am happy to wear a black cycling jacket as I think there is an element
of " menace " to it that increases my safety factor. I also do what I can
to be visible with lights on at all times, so I am touching all the bases.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurt_Report

* I was so lucky to have worked for Stuart Munro. For those who have heard
his name, he really was an amazing guy

https://canadianmotorcyclehalloffame.ca/inductees/2013/stuart-munro

** this was written before texting and such, so maybe no longer completely
accurate

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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[masmojo]

That guy in the video is a little annoying, but the information is spot 
on!  (One reason I don't really enjoy the handful of seat post Concept)  
Old aluminum Cannondale's, Kleins and other Aluminum bikes were VERY stiff 
and definitely would beat you up even with sloping top tubes and long seat 
posts. My Klein Pinnacle race bike was brutal; when I changed to the steel 
Fat City I was so much faster and less beat up at the end of the day! 
Modern aluminum tubes are better constructed and. the frames designed with 
the characteristics of the tubes in mind.
Titanium bikes DO ride like Butter!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[masmojo]

I don't mind a blinking red rear in the day to help me get the attention of 
cars approaching from behind, BUT overall I like the Bright, Steady, Front 
and rear light. Often If my front light stops working for some reason, I 
discover it, because I notice people pulling out in front of me where 
normally they wouldn't. A dynamo is indispensable in my opinion; mine is on 
ALL the time, I never turn it off. Lights like the B, Supernova, Edelux, 
Etc. are great, but really a 40Lux light can be gotten for less than $40. 
and gives out just enough light to be able to see OK at night and ensure 
you are seen in the day.

Just my opinion, but I think blinking lights at night are drunk magnets; 
they are attracted to the pulsing light for some reason?

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[RBW] Re: Good wishes for those on list affected by CA wildfires

[Joel]

Patrick, I bet Walnut Creek is getting the smoke, my daughter in Berkeley 
and friends in the Oakland Hills are, my buddy told me his car was full of 
ash.  

Good luck to all. 

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 7:48:33 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I spent ~5 years on SoCal -- Calabasas/Malibu and Santa Paula/Ojai and 
> Pasadena and Atherton (girlfriend) way back in the '70s and early '80s, 
> college and hanging around afterward. I recall yearly wildfires and the 
> little everyday earthquakes; but nothing like the last few years, which 
> have been rather apocalyptic.
>
> I just read on the CR list that a well-known builder lost his property.
>
> Is Walnut Creek affected?
>
> I hope all living there and reading this are safe. 
>
> Here in high desert ABQ, NM the sun has long since burned off most fire 
> fuel, but I live in the little green belt -- bosque -- adjacent to the Rio 
> Grand; the summer before I bought my house, there was a bosque fire, after 
> which the City went in and cleaned out the thickets of imported willows and 
> other aliens so we've not had one since. But I don't use a charcoal grill.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] I found a nice shoe for riding without clips and straps

[Robert Tilley]

  I've used the Kursk shoes for years and like them on the bike. They aren't great if you're doing a lot of walking but that's not an issue for my use. I also have the "pro" version with SPD mounts.Robert TilleySan Diego, CA Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device   From: jrster...@gmail.comSent: August 21, 2020 8:38 AMTo: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.comReply-to: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.comSubject: [RBW] I found a nice shoe for riding without clips and straps  I was looking to stop using my running type shoes,  These fit in size like a good dress shoe, not a sneaker.  They look good, are stiff enough.  Run a tad narrow but that is good for me, I still had to snug them up with an extra insole.  Very grippy on my MKS Touring pedals. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N69JCVR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8=1=1



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[RBW] Re: A not-so-riv-ish Riv

[Dave Johnston]

Yes, that bike looks way too non-Rivendell, and it also looks just my size 
so you should unload it to me now for cheap! I will switch the ergo for 
barcons though. :p

Seriously though that is about as classic rivendell as can you can get. Any 
indexing that may be happening is made up for by mix and matching  
manufacturers to get what you need.

-Dave J

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[RBW] Re: I found a nice shoe for riding without clips and straps

[Joel]

Now those look like bike shoes.  I used to wear ones like these for years.  
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133495378494

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 9:40:05 PM UTC-4, Mike Godwin wrote:
>
> Nice, reminds of the old Bata Biker shoe
>
> http://thefridaycyclotouriste.com/?tag=bata-bikers
>
> SLO CA
>
> On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 8:38:00 AM UTC-7, Joel wrote:
>>
>> I was looking to stop using my running type shoes,  These fit in size 
>> like a good dress shoe, not a sneaker.  They look good, are stiff enough. 
>>  Run a tad narrow but that is good for me, I still had to snug them up with 
>> an extra insole.  Very grippy on my MKS Touring pedals. 
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N69JCVR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8=1=1
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: I found a nice shoe for riding without clips and straps

[Mike Godwin]

Nice, reminds of the old Bata Biker shoe

http://thefridaycyclotouriste.com/?tag=bata-bikers

SLO CA

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 8:38:00 AM UTC-7, Joel wrote:
>
> I was looking to stop using my running type shoes,  These fit in size like 
> a good dress shoe, not a sneaker.  They look good, are stiff enough.  Run a 
> tad narrow but that is good for me, I still had to snug them up with an 
> extra insole.  Very grippy on my MKS Touring pedals. 
>
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N69JCVR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8=1=1
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[Joe Bernard]

I'm not a big podcast listener but I highly recommend the one Leah 
mentioned. It's amazing, and parents in the '70s were nuts! 

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 11:31:10 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Julian, your childhood looks to be the stuff of dreams. What a cool and 
> eclectic group of kids - I think it’s rare that the older kids will let 
> much younger kids join their group. Yes, your Clem would feel right at home 
> - maybe this is why we like our Clems? They are a visit to our childhood 
> eras. Great photo!
>
> If anyone else’s appetite has been whet for a great story in the vein of 
> this thread, check out this podcast episode about a group of kids in the 
> 70s and a 240 miles bike trip that they took...alone. No parents. 2 states. 
> Zero supervision. 100% true.
>
>
> https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/heavyweight/id1150800298?i=1000451295628
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 21, 2020, at 9:58 AM, Julian Westerhout  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Leah, 
>
> Here I am (on the far left) with three of my siblings and two kids from 
> the neighborhood on a fine fall day in Maryland circa 1971. 
>
> Note my Wald basket (descendants of which are on my Clem and our HHH), 
> wide tires, fenders, and upright bars. My Clem would feel right at home in 
> this photo. 
>
> The majorly cool kids in that group were the kid with the Sting Ray with 
> Ape Hanger handlebars and "realistic stick shifter" and my older brother on 
> the 10-speed -- he could ride up hills that we had to hop off and push. 
> :) 
>
> Bikes meant freedom to me then -- we could ride to scout meetings, to 
> sports, to friends' houses -- all on our own, and could explore the wood 
> paths on our bikes -- the feelings of empowerment and independence were 
> awesome. 
>
> Today, nothing too much has changed, other than I no longer have hair and 
> am a lot taller...  ;) 
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 9:20:50 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> Here is a thread that will veer just a bit from the normal subject 
>> matter. But it has been 112 degrees today, and we have to do something 
>> while we wait for our Platypus bikes. Going for a walk down memory lane is 
>> what we’re doing.
>>
>> I recently found this treasure. Pictured is me, at 5 years old with my 
>> very first bike. My parents purchased it at a garage sale from a family in 
>> town. It was a Huffy Desert Rose (long, dramatic, wistful sigh here).The 
>> story was that the bike had been backed over but -yay!- the man of the 
>> house had welded the bike back into working order. I was THRILLED. I never 
>> had training wheels - I learned by taking off and crashing all over the 
>> neighborhood. I didn’t care if I was missing a lot of hide; I had wheels 
>> and I was going places in my tiny North Dakota town.
>>
>> I would like to take this time to point out several things...
>>
>> 1. I really think they nailed the saddle height on the first try.
>>
>> 2. My bike had fenders! And they were clearly for decoration only.
>>
>> 3. What shoes was I wearing? I don’t know, but what I can tell you I 
>> didn’t trouble myself with socks. 
>>
>> 4. My celebrity lookalike was Mowgli from the Jungle Book. 
>>
>> 6. Banana seats > Brooks saddles.
>>
>> 7. No need for racks/baskets. I put a friend or a little sister on the 
>> banana seat and SHE carried the goods.
>>
>> 8. Kids were tougher in the 80s. That bike was huge for 5-year-old me, 
>> but I rode it. Pedaling that bike felt like being stuck in the hardest gear 
>> going uphill always (the welder dad overestimated his abilities), but I 
>> rode the wheels off of it..most likely with flat tires.
>>
>> In closing, I might also point out that I was into Rivendell before 
>> Rivendell was into Rivendell. Compare the Huffy with my Clementine - I was 
>> an early adopter.
>>
>> This was the day the love affair began, friends. I am so happy to have a 
>> photo of it. Who else has a story about their first bike? Bonus points if 
>> you can also provide photos.
>>
>> Leah
>>
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: Good wishes for those on list affected by CA wildfires

[Joe Bernard]

Mitch Pryor was MAP Bicycles in Paradise, CA., he lost everything in the 
Camp Fire two years ago. 

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 4:48:33 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I spent ~5 years on SoCal -- Calabasas/Malibu and Santa Paula/Ojai and 
> Pasadena and Atherton (girlfriend) way back in the '70s and early '80s, 
> college and hanging around afterward. I recall yearly wildfires and the 
> little everyday earthquakes; but nothing like the last few years, which 
> have been rather apocalyptic.
>
> I just read on the CR list that a well-known builder lost his property.
>
> Is Walnut Creek affected?
>
> I hope all living there and reading this are safe. 
>
> Here in high desert ABQ, NM the sun has long since burned off most fire 
> fuel, but I live in the little green belt -- bosque -- adjacent to the Rio 
> Grand; the summer before I bought my house, there was a bosque fire, after 
> which the City went in and cleaned out the thickets of imported willows and 
> other aliens so we've not had one since. But I don't use a charcoal grill.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Good wishes for those on list affected by CA wildfires

[Philip Williamson]

Thanks Patrick. As my friend at Tilted Shed Ciderworks said on Monday, 
“Here we go again.”
Looks like the roads I rode last weekend are now either evacuated or burned 
out. Dozens of acquaintances are evacuated, and the smoke and heat are 
oppressive. The wind just picked up, and we may have more dry lightning on 
Sunday. 

Waking up in a sleeping bag by the ocean to the End Times Thunder and 
Lighting Show was pretty intense. “Oh this will go down in the oral 
histories.”

Philip
Global Warming, CA

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 4:48:33 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I spent ~5 years on SoCal -- Calabasas/Malibu and Santa Paula/Ojai and 
> Pasadena and Atherton (girlfriend) way back in the '70s and early '80s, 
> college and hanging around afterward. I recall yearly wildfires and the 
> little everyday earthquakes; but nothing like the last few years, which 
> have been rather apocalyptic.
>
> I just read on the CR list that a well-known builder lost his property.
>
> Is Walnut Creek affected?
>
> I hope all living there and reading this are safe. 
>
> Here in high desert ABQ, NM the sun has long since burned off most fire 
> fuel, but I live in the little green belt -- bosque -- adjacent to the Rio 
> Grand; the summer before I bought my house, there was a bosque fire, after 
> which the City went in and cleaned out the thickets of imported willows and 
> other aliens so we've not had one since. But I don't use a charcoal grill.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Orange Sam in the House

[Mark Roland]

Very nice, Paul, as usual. How would you compare the ride of this Sam to 
your various vintage mountain bike builds that you've set up in a similar 
fashion over the years?

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 6:34:35 PM UTC-4, Paul in Dallas wrote:
>
> After about 16 or 17 years I have another Riv.
>
> It's an almost perfect low miles Sam from 2018 I think.
>
> It's the model with caliper brakes.
>
> It was too tall for previous owner and he barely used it.
>
> Mustache bars came on it and I switched to North Road style bars plus 
> changed derailers and few other things.
>
> Well, basically I changed everything but calipers and headset.
>
> Its definitely putting a smile on my face!
>
> Paul in Dallas 
>
> [image: Image] 
>
> [image: Image] 
>
> [image: Image] 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Orange Sam in the House

[True Golden]

Thanks everyone. 
Roberta  I like those grips pretty well.
I wish they had more cushion.

I like these a bit better:
Asti Natural Cork Foam Bicycle Grips
I just ordered these to try in orange.
Paul in Dallas
OneUp Components Lock-On Grips.







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Re: [RBW] Re: While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[Carl]

Hi Leah, I still have that C Itoh. It’s gone a ways since ‘74, mostly in 
its first 20 years. I’ll post a current photo of it tomorrow. It was my 
Dad’s, but I nagged him until he gave it to me and got himself a new 
Bridgestone Super Speed, which I also still have. 

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 4:36:22 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Speaking of fixies for toddlers, I recall learning to ride 2 wheels circa 
> age 4, which would have been 1959, on a tiny red bicycle with solid, black 
> rubber tires and a fixed wheel; I have no recollection where it came from, 
> because it certainly wasn't mine. Funny how strong such early memories are. 
> Doubtless it was this early experience that soured me on freewheels later 
> in life.
>
> The older blonde girls from next door -- I think they may have been 8 or 9 
> -- made me their afternoon project, and they set me on the saddle and 
> pushed me down the slope of our short driveway (right into the street). But 
> I survived and learned.
>
> Speaking of the old-fashioned children's tricycles: those were horribly 
> unstable. I recall how 5 years later, my brother, then age 4, would tear 
> down the concrete driveway on his, with 16" wheel trike, rather tall for a 
> tricycle and, attempting to do a time trial turn at the end, would 
> inevitably fall over at speed and hit his head on the concrete; he was 
> tall, skinny, with a very big head, and I recall thinking, even at age 9, 
> that his large head was a liability here, and that "this can't be healthy." 
> Though, a couple of year later at another house with a driveway that dove 
> steeply down to a basement-level garage, I'd coax him into the driver's 
> seat and stand on the back and accelerate us rapidly down the very steep 
> slope, pedals whirling, his legs in the air, our aim being to safely make 
> the 90* right hand turn into a small corridor between back wall of house 
> and back wall of property; since I grasped the bar in the center, it was 
> his left hand that always got scraped.
>
> Two photos I wish I still had -- my mother kept them for decades as we 
> travelled between continents: A bw photo of me, age 7 or 8, with my new 
> 24"-wheel JC Higgins, and best friend Ricky Heinbuck, a year younger but an 
> inch taller, with an ancient, 28"- wheel woman's bike that his father had 
> resurrected from some dump or another. Another bw of me, sophomore 
> yearbook, age 15 or just turned 16, early 1971, with my first self-build: 
> Indian roadster frame, 700C flip flop rear wheel, 24" front wheel, drop 
> bar, rat trap pedals with no cages or straps, and no brakes because (to my 
> surprise) nothing would fit. 50 t cottered crank, 15 t fw, IIRC, 90" gear. 
> I rode it on murderous narrow, hilly, winding roads with no shoulders, with 
> the faster cars getting up to 80 (rode in one) and "country" buses racing 
> side by side around blind corners, and in downtown traffic, with no brake. 
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 9:03 AM Ray  wrote:
>
>> I wonder if Riv would consider a 3-wheeler for the aging boomer market. 
>> Here I am cruising one-handed on my first fixie in about 1953, trying to 
>> keep my shoes clean in rough garden terrain down by the tracks in northern 
>> Ontario. Leah, there is room on the back for you to stand on those axle 
>> platforms if you want me to stop by your place in Dakota.
>>
>> [image: trike.jpg]
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 6:42:54 AM UTC-7 Mark Roland wrote:
>>
>>> I was wondering when we would hear the bringgg bringgg of 
>>> Bicyclebelldingding, it's been a bit stuffy around here.
>>>
>>> My first bike memory is of an old white girls bike that my grandfather 
>>> and I rescued from the local dump. He fixed it up and that's how I learned 
>>> to ride. I think.
>>>
>>> There is a  polariod somewhere of me in my pajamas on Christmas morning, 
>>> kneeling next to a sea-foam green Rollfast with a white banana seat, 
>>> chopper bars, and a big red bow. My first new bike. Eerily similar to 
>>> Carl's photo.
>>>
>>> Like Matthew, I also had a C.Itoh in a beautiful pale yellow, my first 
>>> ten-speed. Which, it should be noted here, was made by the Bridgestone 
>>> company. Although I now understand the paint job was the best thing about 
>>> the bike, I wanted to make it sparkle green like Janice M.'s Schwinn 
>>> Continental down the block. I took it apart, then used toxic stripper and 
>>> razor blades to take it down to bare metal. This was probably 1972, I was 
>>> 11 or 12. My workshop was the basement floor in front of the boiler. I 
>>> think I may not have used primer, and it may not have ridden quite the 
>>> same, but it was a fairly decent green, and there were only a few leftover 
>>> parts.
>>>
>>> The Platypus will be awesome, as will the Charlie Gallop. If they ever 
>>> do make a dedicated kids bike, it will need to be called a Puggle. I am 
>>> currently waiting on my large Susie. And building up an HHH tandem. And 
>>> tootling around town on 

Re: [RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[Joel Stern]

That does it, I’m getting red socks, seriously. Also a good excuse for red
T’s.  Thanks Deacon.

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 8:10 PM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I came up with my daylight visibility strategy from observing redwing
> blackbirds, which I always see easily from afar, whether still or in
> flight, be they in shadow or sunlight or cloudy/dim light. Black body, with
> a surprisingly small patch of red, bordered on one side by yellow. That's
> it. So...
>
> I wear red. But red fades, especially with summer cotton shirts. So I add
> a red bandana around my neck. My socks are red, and that's what my wife
> says she sees first from afar. A safety triangle on the saddle bag. No
> lights except solid front and rear on foggy/stormy days. Combined with
> "smile and wave" and "ride in the right tire track" on anything less than
> 4' shoulders, and the biggest danger is cars passing me in the other lane
> despite oncoming traffic because this strategy works so well.
>
> I've no idea how this translates from the twisty backroads I ride (though
> we have every increasing traffic, especially now, still working a charm) to
> city cycling.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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[RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I came up with my daylight visibility strategy from observing redwing 
blackbirds, which I always see easily from afar, whether still or in 
flight, be they in shadow or sunlight or cloudy/dim light. Black body, with 
a surprisingly small patch of red, bordered on one side by yellow. That's 
it. So...

I wear red. But red fades, especially with summer cotton shirts. So I add a 
red bandana around my neck. My socks are red, and that's what my wife says 
she sees first from afar. A safety triangle on the saddle bag. No lights 
except solid front and rear on foggy/stormy days. Combined with "smile and 
wave" and "ride in the right tire track" on anything less than 4' 
shoulders, and the biggest danger is cars passing me in the other lane 
despite oncoming traffic because this strategy works so well.

I've no idea how this translates from the twisty backroads I ride (though 
we have every increasing traffic, especially now, still working a charm) to 
city cycling.

With abandon,
Patrick 

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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 2:19:25 PM UTC-7 Andrew Turner wrote:

> …Hell, if I had the money, the eye for carbon and murdered-out 
> componentry, and rode bikes for no purpose other than to ride a bike, I 
> probably would prefer the ride quality of an Open U.P.(P.E.R.) with the 
> fattest Rene Herse EL tires, over some vintage Trek 720 on 700 x 23s.
>

Rene Herse tires may be manufactured to the highest quality and standards, 
but Open frames are apparently not . Maybe 
the vintage Trek 720 is better after all. :)

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[RBW] Good wishes for those on list affected by CA wildfires

[Patrick Moore]

I spent ~5 years on SoCal -- Calabasas/Malibu and Santa Paula/Ojai and
Pasadena and Atherton (girlfriend) way back in the '70s and early '80s,
college and hanging around afterward. I recall yearly wildfires and the
little everyday earthquakes; but nothing like the last few years, which
have been rather apocalyptic.

I just read on the CR list that a well-known builder lost his property.

Is Walnut Creek affected?

I hope all living there and reading this are safe.

Here in high desert ABQ, NM the sun has long since burned off most fire
fuel, but I live in the little green belt -- bosque -- adjacent to the Rio
Grand; the summer before I bought my house, there was a bosque fire, after
which the City went in and cleaned out the thickets of imported willows and
other aliens so we've not had one since. But I don't use a charcoal grill.

-- 

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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[Patrick Moore]

I'd like confirmation that the drivers who said they noticed him with that
reflector noticed it during the day -- if that was the case. I use one of
those triangles at night, but haven't been using it during our (very
bright) daylight.

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 5:36 PM Joel Stern  wrote:

> Patrick, I think he is referring to the study I posted above. It is not on
> my computer but on my ipad or I would post it here. It is under one of my
> posts.  Here it is,
>
>
> https://www.roadbikerider.com/incisive-new-studies-on-cyclist-visibility-d3/
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 7:33 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Brian: Sincere question: Was this during the day that drivers noticed
>> this so well?
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 3:44 PM Brian Campbell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In addition to using a generator powered headlight and taillight in
>>> "always on mode", I also use one of these:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/odds-ends/products/miny-mini-mine-reflecto-triangle-minny
>>>
>>> I have had more than one passing driver mention that they noticed it.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[Joel Stern]

Patrick, I think he is referring to the study I posted above. It is not on
my computer but on my ipad or I would post it here. It is under one of my
posts.  Here it is,

https://www.roadbikerider.com/incisive-new-studies-on-cyclist-visibility-d3/

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 7:33 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Brian: Sincere question: Was this during the day that drivers noticed this
> so well?
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 3:44 PM Brian Campbell 
> wrote:
>
>> In addition to using a generator powered headlight and taillight in
>> "always on mode", I also use one of these:
>>
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/odds-ends/products/miny-mini-mine-reflecto-triangle-minny
>>
>> I have had more than one passing driver mention that they noticed it.
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Who is using bike lights?

[Joel Stern]

David, I always use a mirror, feel naked with out one. I have the kind that
goes on a pair of glasses. For me this makes a real difference. I found a
decent one made in the USA on amazon if you need a link let me know. I had
one of the Chuck Harris ones that rivendell sold, still have one that fits
on a bike helmet that I don't use. I lost that one for my glasses, I loved
that mirror.

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 7:27 PM David Hays <23writ...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joel,
> Another thing I find critical to feeling safe and I’m not sure if anyone
> brought it up is a mirror.
> It helps so much to be aware of things especially as one's flexibility
> isn’t what it once was.
> David
>
> On Aug 21, 2020, at 7:15 PM, Joel Stern  wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, it had flaws for sure .  I’ve lost all of my words should say giving
> away all of my cycling jerseys and I’m gonna need to pick up some bright
> colored T-shirts and other things to be seen when I’m riding. I don’t ride
> at night so that’s not an issue but these people should be able to see me.
> And of course we all know that’s really not gonna help all that much
> because people can be looking at their phones and doing a variety of other
> things.
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 6:21 PM Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:
>
>> The study referenced below asked the viewers when they were confident
>> they saw a cyclist.
>>
>> The study did not ask when they saw a potential road hazard/something to
>> watch out for.
>>
>> Therefore they could see a bright shirt and think, well maybe it's a
>> pedestrian or a construction worker, but not a cyclist.
>>
>> --However, practically speaking, it is important to note that they saw it
>> and it is a potential hazard that they should not hit.  The driver doesn't
>> have to know it's a cyclist to know that you don't want to run into it!
>>
>> --Don't get the impression that a black shirt is as good as a fluorescent
>> shirt because it didn't help you get recognized as a cyclist any better.
>> That fluorescent shirt is going to tell the drivers don't run into me
>> (whether it's a pedestrian, cyclist or construction worker!) much better
>> than a black shirt, and this study didn't test for that.
>>
>> Toshi
>>
>>
>> Toshi
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 4:57 PM Joel Stern  wrote:
>>
>>> I read a study that pretty much said that
>>>
>>> https://www.roadbikerider.com/incisive-new-studies-on-cyclist-visibility-d3/
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 6:55 PM Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Joel: I'm glad you were not hit,

 Ads appear from time to time advertising the "brightest tail light" and
 while I've not seen any recently I think NiteRider and Cygolight make 2 of
 the bright ones. But I wonder if bright lights, any more than neon-yellow
 clothing, will make much difference in bright sunlight -- "studies showed"
 that clothing color didn't.

 What happened?



 On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:55 PM Joel  wrote:

> 2 close calls in one day. My red blinking cateye is useless in
> daylight.  I a interested in front and back lights to help me be more
> visible, your thoughts and experiences are welcome.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>
>
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> 
> .
>
>
>

 --

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum










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Re: [RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[Patrick Moore]

Brian: Sincere question: Was this during the day that drivers noticed this
so well?

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 3:44 PM Brian Campbell 
wrote:

> In addition to using a generator powered headlight and taillight in
> "always on mode", I also use one of these:
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/odds-ends/products/miny-mini-mine-reflecto-triangle-minny
>
> I have had more than one passing driver mention that they noticed it.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Who is using bike lights?

[David Hays]

Joel,
Another thing I find critical to feeling safe and I’m not sure if anyone 
brought it up is a mirror.
It helps so much to be aware of things especially as one's flexibility isn’t 
what it once was.
David 

> On Aug 21, 2020, at 7:15 PM, Joel Stern  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yeah, it had flaws for sure .  I’ve lost all of my words should say giving 
> away all of my cycling jerseys and I’m gonna need to pick up some bright 
> colored T-shirts and other things to be seen when I’m riding. I don’t ride at 
> night so that’s not an issue but these people should be able to see me. And 
> of course we all know that’s really not gonna help all that much because 
> people can be looking at their phones and doing a variety of other things.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 6:21 PM Toshi Takeuchi  > wrote:
> The study referenced below asked the viewers when they were confident they 
> saw a cyclist.
> 
> The study did not ask when they saw a potential road hazard/something to 
> watch out for.
> 
> Therefore they could see a bright shirt and think, well maybe it's a 
> pedestrian or a construction worker, but not a cyclist.  
> 
> --However, practically speaking, it is important to note that they saw it and 
> it is a potential hazard that they should not hit.  The driver doesn't have 
> to know it's a cyclist to know that you don't want to run into it!  
> 
> --Don't get the impression that a black shirt is as good as a fluorescent 
> shirt because it didn't help you get recognized as a cyclist any better.  
> That fluorescent shirt is going to tell the drivers don't run into me 
> (whether it's a pedestrian, cyclist or construction worker!) much better than 
> a black shirt, and this study didn't test for that.
> 
> Toshi
> 
> 
> Toshi
>  
> 
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 4:57 PM Joel Stern  > wrote:
> I read a study that pretty much said that 
> https://www.roadbikerider.com/incisive-new-studies-on-cyclist-visibility-d3/ 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 6:55 PM Patrick Moore  > wrote:
> Joel: I'm glad you were not hit, 
> 
> Ads appear from time to time advertising the "brightest tail light" and while 
> I've not seen any recently I think NiteRider and Cygolight make 2 of the 
> bright ones. But I wonder if bright lights, any more than neon-yellow 
> clothing, will make much difference in bright sunlight -- "studies showed" 
> that clothing color didn't. 
> 
> What happened?
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:55 PM Joel  > wrote:
> 2 close calls in one day. My red blinking cateye is useless in daylight.  I a 
> interested in front and back lights to help me be more visible, your thoughts 
> and experiences are welcome.
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Joel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> 
> 
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
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>  
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Who is using bike lights?

[Joel Stern]

Yeah, it had flaws for sure .  I’ve lost all of my words should say giving
away all of my cycling jerseys and I’m gonna need to pick up some bright
colored T-shirts and other things to be seen when I’m riding. I don’t ride
at night so that’s not an issue but these people should be able to see me.
And of course we all know that’s really not gonna help all that much
because people can be looking at their phones and doing a variety of other
things.

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 6:21 PM Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:

> The study referenced below asked the viewers when they were confident they
> saw a cyclist.
>
> The study did not ask when they saw a potential road hazard/something to
> watch out for.
>
> Therefore they could see a bright shirt and think, well maybe it's a
> pedestrian or a construction worker, but not a cyclist.
>
> --However, practically speaking, it is important to note that they saw it
> and it is a potential hazard that they should not hit.  The driver doesn't
> have to know it's a cyclist to know that you don't want to run into it!
>
> --Don't get the impression that a black shirt is as good as a fluorescent
> shirt because it didn't help you get recognized as a cyclist any better.
> That fluorescent shirt is going to tell the drivers don't run into me
> (whether it's a pedestrian, cyclist or construction worker!) much better
> than a black shirt, and this study didn't test for that.
>
> Toshi
>
>
> Toshi
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 4:57 PM Joel Stern  wrote:
>
>> I read a study that pretty much said that
>>
>> https://www.roadbikerider.com/incisive-new-studies-on-cyclist-visibility-d3/
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 6:55 PM Patrick Moore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Joel: I'm glad you were not hit,
>>>
>>> Ads appear from time to time advertising the "brightest tail light" and
>>> while I've not seen any recently I think NiteRider and Cygolight make 2 of
>>> the bright ones. But I wonder if bright lights, any more than neon-yellow
>>> clothing, will make much difference in bright sunlight -- "studies showed"
>>> that clothing color didn't.
>>>
>>> What happened?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:55 PM Joel  wrote:
>>>
 2 close calls in one day. My red blinking cateye is useless in
 daylight.  I a interested in front and back lights to help me be more
 visible, your thoughts and experiences are welcome.

 Thanks

 Joel








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>>>
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>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 8/21/20 5:19 PM, Andrew Turner wrote:
I like this guy's videos as they're very thorough but not daunting. 
It's not exactly anything super controversial though. Basically all 
frames have  close to 0 vertical compliance by themselves before 
factoring in seatposts, tires, etc. Totally checks out, frames use the 
same tech as bridges for Pete's sake. Now he's including a lot of 
footage of carbon yet the title is only steel vs. aluminum...perhaps 
that's due to his touring background though.


Vertical compliance is only one part of the equation though. These 
people in the comments saying they've gone from steel to alloy to 
carbon and back to steel, defending it as the most comfortable are 
missing the point of the video. There are other factors that play into 
why you might prefer one over the other. Hell, if I had the money, the 
eye for carbon and murdered-out componentry, and rode bikes for no 
purpose other than to ride a bike, I probably would prefer the ride 
quality of an Open U.P.(P.E.R.) with the fattest Rene Herse EL tires, 
over some vintage Trek 720 on 700 x 23s.



That vintage 720 probably came with 27 x 1 1/4" tires, the equivalent of 
a 700x32. http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/1983/83Trek14.jpg





But I don't have that kind of money for bikes, I like the way lugged 
steel looks more, and I can 650b that trek, add racks and bags to 
transport me and things, crank that quill stem up to the sky, and ride 
equally as comfortable as the Open at a fraction of the cost and at a 
fraction of the speed ;)



That vintage 720 is no slouch.  It was respected then and it is still 
respected.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Who is using bike lights?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

The study referenced below asked the viewers when they were confident they
saw a cyclist.

The study did not ask when they saw a potential road hazard/something to
watch out for.

Therefore they could see a bright shirt and think, well maybe it's a
pedestrian or a construction worker, but not a cyclist.

--However, practically speaking, it is important to note that they saw it
and it is a potential hazard that they should not hit.  The driver doesn't
have to know it's a cyclist to know that you don't want to run into it!

--Don't get the impression that a black shirt is as good as a fluorescent
shirt because it didn't help you get recognized as a cyclist any better.
That fluorescent shirt is going to tell the drivers don't run into me
(whether it's a pedestrian, cyclist or construction worker!) much better
than a black shirt, and this study didn't test for that.

Toshi


Toshi


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 4:57 PM Joel Stern  wrote:

> I read a study that pretty much said that
>
> https://www.roadbikerider.com/incisive-new-studies-on-cyclist-visibility-d3/
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 6:55 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Joel: I'm glad you were not hit,
>>
>> Ads appear from time to time advertising the "brightest tail light" and
>> while I've not seen any recently I think NiteRider and Cygolight make 2 of
>> the bright ones. But I wonder if bright lights, any more than neon-yellow
>> clothing, will make much difference in bright sunlight -- "studies showed"
>> that clothing color didn't.
>>
>> What happened?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:55 PM Joel  wrote:
>>
>>> 2 close calls in one day. My red blinking cateye is useless in
>>> daylight.  I a interested in front and back lights to help me be more
>>> visible, your thoughts and experiences are welcome.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: ISO / WTB: 58cm Sam H or Joe A (frameset)

[Justin Wyne]

Hi David,

I have one of both that you are looking for but they are both currently 
built up. Something is unwell with the new groups format and I can't 
message you privately.

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 2:39:11 PM UTC-4, David Baldi wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for a Sam H or Joe A frameset. Interested in all colors/eras, 
> 58cm (or close equivalent). 
>
> Thank you! 
> David in New Haven
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[Brian Campbell]

In addition to using a generator powered headlight and taillight in "always 
on mode", I also use one of these:

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/odds-ends/products/miny-mini-mine-reflecto-triangle-minny

I have had more than one passing driver mention that they noticed it.



On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 5:11:08 PM UTC-4, Joel wrote:
>
>
> Thanks.  You are right about US drivers, Unless they also are cyclists 
> most are clueless 
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 4:36 PM aeroperf  > wrote:
>
>>
>> Interesting subject all around.
>>
>> Airplane studies, for both the Air Force and the FAA, indicate that 4 
>> cycles per second is the optimum flash rate for getting a pilot’s 
>> attention.  I use a Planet Bike Beamer 80 for the front, and Planet Bike 
>> Grateful Red taillight, both on quick flash mode.  They let folk know I’m 
>> there, without blinding anybody.  But here in the US I try to stay on the 
>> bike trail and off the roads.
>>
>> German bikes (at least 2002 - 2005 when I lived there) were required to 
>> come with a head and tail light, generally dynamo driven with those little 
>> snap-down-on-your-tire dynamos.  They were also required to have reflectors 
>> in the spokes and reflectors front and rear on the pedals.  You could 
>> always take these off, but that’s the way they were sold.  Apparently a 
>> study had been done and this was determined to be the most cost effective 
>> set of safety items, for both day and night.
>> For road touring, we’d add a light fluorescent green vest for daylight, 
>> and sometimes a pair of reflective ankle straps for night.  Dorky, sure, 
>> but you can see those vests pretty well on a moving bicyclist.
>>
>> I would say that US drivers have an order of magnitude less consideration 
>> for bicyclists than their European counterparts.  If I do plan on going on 
>> the road here for any distance, I still take that dorky green vest.  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: Tires and seat posts more important for comfort than frame material?

[Andrew Turner]

I like this guy's videos as they're very thorough but not daunting. It's 
not exactly anything super controversial though. Basically all frames have  
close to 0 vertical compliance by themselves before factoring in seatposts, 
tires, etc. Totally checks out, frames use the same tech as bridges for 
Pete's sake. Now he's including a lot of footage of carbon yet the title is 
only steel vs. aluminum...perhaps that's due to his touring background 
though. 

Vertical compliance is only one part of the equation though. These people 
in the comments saying they've gone from steel to alloy to carbon and back 
to steel, defending it as the most comfortable are missing the point of the 
video. There are other factors that play into why you might prefer one over 
the other. Hell, if I had the money, the eye for carbon and murdered-out 
componentry, and rode bikes for no purpose other than to ride a bike, I 
probably would prefer the ride quality of an Open U.P.(P.E.R.) with the 
fattest Rene Herse EL tires, over some vintage Trek 720 on 700 x 23s. 

But I don't have that kind of money for bikes, I like the way lugged steel 
looks more, and I can 650b that trek, add racks and bags to transport me 
and things, crank that quill stem up to the sky, and ride equally as 
comfortable as the Open at a fraction of the cost and at a fraction of the 
speed ;) 
On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 9:06:46 PM UTC-5 tc wrote:

> Well-presented study of what affects comfort:
> https://youtu.be/Lb4ktAbmr_4
>
> Tom
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Nick

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 4:35 AM Nick Payne  wrote:

> I have the Niterider Solas on several bikes. I use it in blinking mode,
> and it's easily visible from several hundred metres away in bright
> sunlight. It also has an optional seatstay mount that you can use, which is
> another plus in my book, as I use Carradice or similar saddlebags on most
> of my bikes, and the normal seatpost mount can't be used with a large
> saddlebag.
>
> I don't bother with front lights for daytime riding.
>
> Nick
>
> On Friday, 21 August 2020 07:55:05 UTC+10, Joel wrote:
>>
>> 2 close calls in one day. My red blinking cateye is useless in daylight.
>> I a interested in front and back lights to help me be more visible, your
>> thoughts and experiences are welcome.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[Joel Stern]

Thanks.  You are right about US drivers, Unless they also are cyclists most
are clueless

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 4:36 PM aeroperf  wrote:

>
> Interesting subject all around.
>
> Airplane studies, for both the Air Force and the FAA, indicate that 4
> cycles per second is the optimum flash rate for getting a pilot’s
> attention.  I use a Planet Bike Beamer 80 for the front, and Planet Bike
> Grateful Red taillight, both on quick flash mode.  They let folk know I’m
> there, without blinding anybody.  But here in the US I try to stay on the
> bike trail and off the roads.
>
> German bikes (at least 2002 - 2005 when I lived there) were required to
> come with a head and tail light, generally dynamo driven with those little
> snap-down-on-your-tire dynamos.  They were also required to have reflectors
> in the spokes and reflectors front and rear on the pedals.  You could
> always take these off, but that’s the way they were sold.  Apparently a
> study had been done and this was determined to be the most cost effective
> set of safety items, for both day and night.
> For road touring, we’d add a light fluorescent green vest for daylight,
> and sometimes a pair of reflective ankle straps for night.  Dorky, sure,
> but you can see those vests pretty well on a moving bicyclist.
>
> I would say that US drivers have an order of magnitude less consideration
> for bicyclists than their European counterparts.  If I do plan on going on
> the road here for any distance, I still take that dorky green vest.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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[RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[aeroperf]

Interesting subject all around.

Airplane studies, for both the Air Force and the FAA, indicate that 4 
cycles per second is the optimum flash rate for getting a pilot’s 
attention.  I use a Planet Bike Beamer 80 for the front, and Planet Bike 
Grateful Red taillight, both on quick flash mode.  They let folk know I’m 
there, without blinding anybody.  But here in the US I try to stay on the 
bike trail and off the roads.

German bikes (at least 2002 - 2005 when I lived there) were required to 
come with a head and tail light, generally dynamo driven with those little 
snap-down-on-your-tire dynamos.  They were also required to have reflectors 
in the spokes and reflectors front and rear on the pedals.  You could 
always take these off, but that’s the way they were sold.  Apparently a 
study had been done and this was determined to be the most cost effective 
set of safety items, for both day and night.
For road touring, we’d add a light fluorescent green vest for daylight, and 
sometimes a pair of reflective ankle straps for night.  Dorky, sure, but 
you can see those vests pretty well on a moving bicyclist.

I would say that US drivers have an order of magnitude less consideration 
for bicyclists than their European counterparts.  If I do plan on going on 
the road here for any distance, I still take that dorky green vest.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB: Medium cage derailleur

[Joel Stern]

Conway, what are you asking for it?  Is it black or silver?  Any pics?

Thank you

Joel

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:53 PM Conway Bennett <
captainconwaybenn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a medium cage 10 speed ultegra rear derailleur that has seen little
> use in my parts bin.
>
>
> On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 8:15:25 AM UTC-5 Joel wrote:
>
>> Preference is Suntour but will consider others,  prefer NOS,
>> Thank you
>>
>> Joel
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[RBW] ISO / WTB: 58cm Sam H or Joe A (frameset)

[David Baldi]

Hi all,

I am looking for a Sam H or Joe A frameset. Interested in all colors/eras, 
58cm (or close equivalent). 

Thank you! 
David in New Haven

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Re: [RBW] Re: While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[Leah Peterson]

Carl - my apologies! I missed your post until now! Great photo, and what a 
gorgeous bike. Where is it now? Did you save it? “World’s finest bicycle 
precision mechanism” definitely surpasses Welded Huffy Desert Rose Garage Sale 
Special! Who loved bikes so much that they gifted you this treasure?

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 18, 2020, at 7:42 PM, Carl  wrote:
> 
> 
> January '74. My birthday present was a C. Itoh, guaranteed world's finest 
> bicycle precision mechanism.
> 
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 10:20:50 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> Here is a thread that will veer just a bit from the normal subject matter. 
>> But it has been 112 degrees today, and we have to do something while we wait 
>> for our Platypus bikes. Going for a walk down memory lane is what we’re 
>> doing.
>> 
>> I recently found this treasure. Pictured is me, at 5 years old with my very 
>> first bike. My parents purchased it at a garage sale from a family in town. 
>> It was a Huffy Desert Rose (long, dramatic, wistful sigh here).The story was 
>> that the bike had been backed over but -yay!- the man of the house had 
>> welded the bike back into working order. I was THRILLED. I never had 
>> training wheels - I learned by taking off and crashing all over the 
>> neighborhood. I didn’t care if I was missing a lot of hide; I had wheels and 
>> I was going places in my tiny North Dakota town.
>> 
>> I would like to take this time to point out several things...
>> 
>> 1. I really think they nailed the saddle height on the first try.
>> 
>> 2. My bike had fenders! And they were clearly for decoration only.
>> 
>> 3. What shoes was I wearing? I don’t know, but what I can tell you I didn’t 
>> trouble myself with socks. 
>> 
>> 4. My celebrity lookalike was Mowgli from the Jungle Book. 
>> 
>> 6. Banana seats > Brooks saddles.
>> 
>> 7. No need for racks/baskets. I put a friend or a little sister on the 
>> banana seat and SHE carried the goods.
>> 
>> 8. Kids were tougher in the 80s. That bike was huge for 5-year-old me, but I 
>> rode it. Pedaling that bike felt like being stuck in the hardest gear going 
>> uphill always (the welder dad overestimated his abilities), but I rode the 
>> wheels off of it..most likely with flat tires.
>> 
>> In closing, I might also point out that I was into Rivendell before 
>> Rivendell was into Rivendell. Compare the Huffy with my Clementine - I was 
>> an early adopter.
>> 
>> This was the day the love affair began, friends. I am so happy to have a 
>> photo of it. Who else has a story about their first bike? Bonus points if 
>> you can also provide photos.
>> 
>> Leah
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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[RBW] Just bought a Sugino XD 600 165mm arms, 46/36/26, will return unless someone on the list wants it

[Joel]

This is brand new, not a flaw, looked it over carefully. 

I can return to Ebay seller or if someone is interested let me know.

I paid $212 for it.

Joel

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Re: [RBW] Re: While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[Leah Peterson]

Julian, your childhood looks to be the stuff of dreams. What a cool and 
eclectic group of kids - I think it’s rare that the older kids will let much 
younger kids join their group. Yes, your Clem would feel right at home - maybe 
this is why we like our Clems? They are a visit to our childhood eras. Great 
photo!

If anyone else’s appetite has been whet for a great story in the vein of this 
thread, check out this podcast episode about a group of kids in the 70s and a 
240 miles bike trip that they took...alone. No parents. 2 states. Zero 
supervision. 100% true.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/heavyweight/id1150800298?i=1000451295628

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 21, 2020, at 9:58 AM, Julian Westerhout  wrote:
> 
> 
> Leah, 
> 
> Here I am (on the far left) with three of my siblings and two kids from the 
> neighborhood on a fine fall day in Maryland circa 1971. 
> 
> Note my Wald basket (descendants of which are on my Clem and our HHH), wide 
> tires, fenders, and upright bars. My Clem would feel right at home in this 
> photo. 
> 
> The majorly cool kids in that group were the kid with the Sting Ray with Ape 
> Hanger handlebars and "realistic stick shifter" and my older brother on the 
> 10-speed -- he could ride up hills that we had to hop off and push. :) 
> 
> Bikes meant freedom to me then -- we could ride to scout meetings, to sports, 
> to friends' houses -- all on our own, and could explore the wood paths on our 
> bikes -- the feelings of empowerment and independence were awesome. 
> 
> Today, nothing too much has changed, other than I no longer have hair and am 
> a lot taller...  ;) 
> 
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 9:20:50 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> Here is a thread that will veer just a bit from the normal subject matter. 
>> But it has been 112 degrees today, and we have to do something while we wait 
>> for our Platypus bikes. Going for a walk down memory lane is what we’re 
>> doing.
>> 
>> I recently found this treasure. Pictured is me, at 5 years old with my very 
>> first bike. My parents purchased it at a garage sale from a family in town. 
>> It was a Huffy Desert Rose (long, dramatic, wistful sigh here).The story was 
>> that the bike had been backed over but -yay!- the man of the house had 
>> welded the bike back into working order. I was THRILLED. I never had 
>> training wheels - I learned by taking off and crashing all over the 
>> neighborhood. I didn’t care if I was missing a lot of hide; I had wheels and 
>> I was going places in my tiny North Dakota town.
>> 
>> I would like to take this time to point out several things...
>> 
>> 1. I really think they nailed the saddle height on the first try.
>> 
>> 2. My bike had fenders! And they were clearly for decoration only.
>> 
>> 3. What shoes was I wearing? I don’t know, but what I can tell you I didn’t 
>> trouble myself with socks. 
>> 
>> 4. My celebrity lookalike was Mowgli from the Jungle Book. 
>> 
>> 6. Banana seats > Brooks saddles.
>> 
>> 7. No need for racks/baskets. I put a friend or a little sister on the 
>> banana seat and SHE carried the goods.
>> 
>> 8. Kids were tougher in the 80s. That bike was huge for 5-year-old me, but I 
>> rode it. Pedaling that bike felt like being stuck in the hardest gear going 
>> uphill always (the welder dad overestimated his abilities), but I rode the 
>> wheels off of it..most likely with flat tires.
>> 
>> In closing, I might also point out that I was into Rivendell before 
>> Rivendell was into Rivendell. Compare the Huffy with my Clementine - I was 
>> an early adopter.
>> 
>> This was the day the love affair began, friends. I am so happy to have a 
>> photo of it. Who else has a story about their first bike? Bonus points if 
>> you can also provide photos.
>> 
>> Leah
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[Michael Williams]

I am loving all these old photos of folks on their childhood bikes.  The 
stories of where people were riding and the freedom the bikes brought them is 
awesome.  And the throwback styles are just so cool!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Julian Westerhout  wrote:
> 
> Leah, 
> 
> Here I am (on the far left) with three of my siblings and two kids from the 
> neighborhood on a fine fall day in Maryland circa 1971. 
> 
> Note my Wald basket (descendants of which are on my Clem and our HHH), wide 
> tires, fenders, and upright bars. My Clem would feel right at home in this 
> photo. 
> 
> The majorly cool kids in that group were the kid with the Sting Ray with Ape 
> Hanger handlebars and "realistic stick shifter" and my older brother on the 
> 10-speed -- he could ride up hills that we had to hop off and push. :) 
> 
> Bikes meant freedom to me then -- we could ride to scout meetings, to sports, 
> to friends' houses -- all on our own, and could explore the wood paths on our 
> bikes -- the feelings of empowerment and independence were awesome. 
> 
> Today, nothing too much has changed, other than I no longer have hair and am 
> a lot taller...  ;) 
> 
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 9:20:50 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> Here is a thread that will veer just a bit from the normal subject matter. 
>> But it has been 112 degrees today, and we have to do something while we wait 
>> for our Platypus bikes. Going for a walk down memory lane is what we’re 
>> doing.
>> 
>> I recently found this treasure. Pictured is me, at 5 years old with my very 
>> first bike. My parents purchased it at a garage sale from a family in town. 
>> It was a Huffy Desert Rose (long, dramatic, wistful sigh here).The story was 
>> that the bike had been backed over but -yay!- the man of the house had 
>> welded the bike back into working order. I was THRILLED. I never had 
>> training wheels - I learned by taking off and crashing all over the 
>> neighborhood. I didn’t care if I was missing a lot of hide; I had wheels and 
>> I was going places in my tiny North Dakota town.
>> 
>> I would like to take this time to point out several things...
>> 
>> 1. I really think they nailed the saddle height on the first try.
>> 
>> 2. My bike had fenders! And they were clearly for decoration only.
>> 
>> 3. What shoes was I wearing? I don’t know, but what I can tell you I didn’t 
>> trouble myself with socks. 
>> 
>> 4. My celebrity lookalike was Mowgli from the Jungle Book. 
>> 
>> 6. Banana seats > Brooks saddles.
>> 
>> 7. No need for racks/baskets. I put a friend or a little sister on the 
>> banana seat and SHE carried the goods.
>> 
>> 8. Kids were tougher in the 80s. That bike was huge for 5-year-old me, but I 
>> rode it. Pedaling that bike felt like being stuck in the hardest gear going 
>> uphill always (the welder dad overestimated his abilities), but I rode the 
>> wheels off of it..most likely with flat tires.
>> 
>> In closing, I might also point out that I was into Rivendell before 
>> Rivendell was into Rivendell. Compare the Huffy with my Clementine - I was 
>> an early adopter.
>> 
>> This was the day the love affair began, friends. I am so happy to have a 
>> photo of it. Who else has a story about their first bike? Bonus points if 
>> you can also provide photos.
>> 
>> Leah
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Clems, racks and P-clamps

[Dave Johnston]

OTOH I agree with Carl that if the P clamps aren't really supporting 
weight, but just keeping the rack from rotating forward or back you are 
probably OK with using the P-clamps. 

-Dave

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 10:42:37 AM UTC-4, Dave Johnston wrote:
>
> There is a Nitto rack that attaches to the Canti brake studs, so that may 
> be an option, I don't know the model. Lots of Riv builds out of Blue Lug 
> are using the Pass and Stow rack which attaches at the fork dropout mounts 
> and the fork Crown.
>
> https://www.passandstowracks.com
>
> On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, Alex K wrote:
>>
>> Hey all.  Trying to find the perfect setup for my Clem L.  I have a Nitto 
>> Campee 34F and a Wald 157 basket currently mounted to my new Clementine.  I 
>> love it all, but have been alerted that perhaps the p-clamps aren’t best 
>> suited for long-term use.  Thoughts?  Advicc? Alternatives?  I really love 
>> the 157 for laundry and pizza deliveries.  But I’m open to trying a 
>> different rack or mounting setup...
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[Jason Fuller]

Leah, yeah that's a tough wait - but after staring at the Platypus a bunch 
lately, I now prefer its aesthetics over the Cheviot quite a bit, and I 
hope you do too! The Gallop is a little behind the Platypus in revealed 
detail from Riv directly, so I would be surprised if it didn't come first - 
but maybe they'll be on the same shipment, since both appear to be 
greenlighted from the prototypes now!

On Friday, 21 August 2020 at 09:09:25 UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

> I do feel like we’re fighting over who gets their production model first - 
> will it be the horse or the platypus -  no one can say. I’ve been waiting 
> for this new mixte since the rumored Anniversary Mixte, so I feel like Riv 
> should put the Platypus first in the queue.  Also, selling the Clem? How 
> could you? Just kidding...sort of.
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Medium cage derailleur

[Conway Bennett]

I have a medium cage 10 speed ultegra rear derailleur that has seen little 
use in my parts bin.


On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 8:15:25 AM UTC-5 Joel wrote:

> Preference is Suntour but will consider others,  prefer NOS,  
> Thank you
>
> Joel 
>

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[RBW] Re: Orange Sam in the House

[Roberta]

Beautiful!  This is my favorite Riv orange.  The others are a close 2nd.

How do you like the grips?  I have albatross bar (it looks similar enough 
to your bar) on my Joe Appaloosa and was mildly thinking about changing the 
grips.

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 6:34:35 PM UTC-4, Paul in Dallas wrote:
>
> After about 16 or 17 years I have another Riv.
>
> It's an almost perfect low miles Sam from 2018 I think.
>
> It's the model with caliper brakes.
>
> It was too tall for previous owner and he barely used it.
>
> Mustache bars came on it and I switched to North Road style bars plus 
> changed derailers and few other things.
>
> Well, basically I changed everything but calipers and headset.
>
> Its definitely putting a smile on my face!
>
> Paul in Dallas 
>
> [image: Image] 
>
> [image: Image] 
>
> [image: Image] 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[Leah Peterson]

Ah, Jason, you’re from an even more northern town than I! The pic is too blurry 
to see, but I’m wondering if we also had the same haircut. 藍 

I do feel like we’re fighting over who gets their production model first - will 
it be the horse or the platypus -  no one can say. I’ve been waiting for this 
new mixte since the rumored Anniversary Mixte, so I feel like Riv should put 
the Platypus first in the queue.  Also, selling the Clem? How could you? Just 
kidding...sort of.

Mark - impressive that you could take apart and repaint your bike at 11 or 12! 
And put it back together with parts leftover - that’s efficient! Congrats on 
the new bikes; you went from no Rivs to LOTS of Rivs in 2020. Good for you!

Ray - I’ll stand on your axles with pleasure - if we leave now I can escape 
this inferno that is Vegas and we can meet up north in God’s Country. Start 
pedaling. 

You guys are all adorable little kids. Even with your 70s and 80s haircuts.
Leah

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 19, 2020, at 5:07 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
> 
> Excellent storytelling Leah, et al.  I am not waiting on Platypus, but I 
> *am* waiting on the Charlie H Gallop and I feel like we're in some kind of 
> race (although the CHG is likely behind, since less details have been 
> officially provided). I hope we get a colour as cool as the green. I haven't 
> heard a peep about what colours are being planned for production on the CHG. 
> 
> My first bike is not too different looking; banana seat, fork that is 
> certainly bent and unsafe. I was actually pretty timid as a kid and it took 
> me a long time to take the plunge on training wheel-free riding. I was six 
> when I figured it out. As you'll see in the second image, riding bikes became 
> the one thing I was not timid about. I was no good at sports, but I had bike 
> skills: throughout my childhood and teenage years I rode mountain bikes, and 
> I became pretty skilled at trials riding (hopping around on one wheel, etc) 
> in my late teens and into my twenties. I then discovered fixie bikes, which I 
> was into for the 2000's, and by 2010 or so I shifted my interest to touring 
> bikes, where Rivendell became something I was more acutely aware of. 
> 
> So despite my first bike being quite Riv-friendly, I then went in very 
> un-Grant-like directions for about two decades before returning. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] I found a nice shoe for riding without clips and straps

[Joel]

I was looking to stop using my running type shoes,  These fit in size like 
a good dress shoe, not a sneaker.  They look good, are stiff enough.  Run a 
tad narrow but that is good for me, I still had to snug them up with an 
extra insole.  Very grippy on my MKS Touring pedals. 


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N69JCVR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8=1=1

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[RBW] Re: Clems, racks and P-clamps

[Dave Johnston]

There is a Nitto rack that attaches to the Canti brake studs, so that may 
be an option, I don't know the model. Lots of Riv builds out of Blue Lug 
are using the Pass and Stow rack which attaches at the fork dropout mounts 
and the fork Crown.

https://www.passandstowracks.com

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, Alex K wrote:
>
> Hey all.  Trying to find the perfect setup for my Clem L.  I have a Nitto 
> Campee 34F and a Wald 157 basket currently mounted to my new Clementine.  I 
> love it all, but have been alerted that perhaps the p-clamps aren’t best 
> suited for long-term use.  Thoughts?  Advicc? Alternatives?  I really love 
> the 157 for laundry and pizza deliveries.  But I’m open to trying a 
> different rack or mounting setup...
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clems, racks and P-clamps

[tuolumne bikes]

P-clamps are fine for loads that push/pull along the wide dimension of the 
clamp--usually up/down and front/back. They will eventually fail under 
loads that flex the clamps in the skinny dimension--usually side to side, 
vibration, and heavy loads. They should be fine for a long time with pizza 
and laundry, and if they fail on the way to the laundromat, you probably 
won't be in the desert where nobody speaks your language.

Carl

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:14 AM UTC-7 ack...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey all.  Trying to find the perfect setup for my Clem L.  I have a Nitto 
> Campee 34F and a Wald 157 basket currently mounted to my new Clementine.  I 
> love it all, but have been alerted that perhaps the p-clamps aren’t best 
> suited for long-term use.  Thoughts?  Advicc? Alternatives?  I really love 
> the 157 for laundry and pizza deliveries.  But I’m open to trying a 
> different rack or mounting setup...
>
>

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[RBW] Re: While we wait for our Platypus Bikes...

[Mark Roland]

I was wondering when we would hear the bringgg bringgg of 
Bicyclebelldingding, it's been a bit stuffy around here.

My first bike memory is of an old white girls bike that my grandfather and 
I rescued from the local dump. He fixed it up and that's how I learned to 
ride. I think.

There is a  polariod somewhere of me in my pajamas on Christmas morning, 
kneeling next to a sea-foam green Rollfast with a white banana seat, 
chopper bars, and a big red bow. My first new bike. Eerily similar to 
Carl's photo.

Like Matthew, I also had a C.Itoh in a beautiful pale yellow, my first 
ten-speed. Which, it should be noted here, was made by the Bridgestone 
company. Although I now understand the paint job was the best thing about 
the bike, I wanted to make it sparkle green like Janice M.'s Schwinn 
Continental down the block. I took it apart, then used toxic stripper and 
razor blades to take it down to bare metal. This was probably 1972, I was 
11 or 12. My workshop was the basement floor in front of the boiler. I 
think I may not have used primer, and it may not have ridden quite the 
same, but it was a fairly decent green, and there were only a few leftover 
parts.

The Platypus will be awesome, as will the Charlie Gallop. If they ever do 
make a dedicated kids bike, it will need to be called a Puggle. I am 
currently waiting on my large Susie. And building up an HHH tandem. And 
tootling around town on my 52 *El Clem*, which is completely complete 
except for mud flaps and likely a basket for the front rack, though that 
will create parking issues in my living room closet.

On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 10:20:50 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Here is a thread that will veer just a bit from the normal subject matter. 
> But it has been 112 degrees today, and we have to do something while we 
> wait for our Platypus bikes. Going for a walk down memory lane is what 
> we’re doing.
>
> I recently found this treasure. Pictured is me, at 5 years old with my 
> very first bike. My parents purchased it at a garage sale from a family in 
> town. It was a Huffy Desert Rose (long, dramatic, wistful sigh here).The 
> story was that the bike had been backed over but -yay!- the man of the 
> house had welded the bike back into working order. I was THRILLED. I never 
> had training wheels - I learned by taking off and crashing all over the 
> neighborhood. I didn’t care if I was missing a lot of hide; I had wheels 
> and I was going places in my tiny North Dakota town.
>
> I would like to take this time to point out several things...
>
> 1. I really think they nailed the saddle height on the first try.
>
> 2. My bike had fenders! And they were clearly for decoration only.
>
> 3. What shoes was I wearing? I don’t know, but what I can tell you I 
> didn’t trouble myself with socks. 
>
> 4. My celebrity lookalike was Mowgli from the Jungle Book. 
>
> 6. Banana seats > Brooks saddles.
>
> 7. No need for racks/baskets. I put a friend or a little sister on the 
> banana seat and SHE carried the goods.
>
> 8. Kids were tougher in the 80s. That bike was huge for 5-year-old me, but 
> I rode it. Pedaling that bike felt like being stuck in the hardest gear 
> going uphill always (the welder dad overestimated his abilities), but I 
> rode the wheels off of it..most likely with flat tires.
>
> In closing, I might also point out that I was into Rivendell before 
> Rivendell was into Rivendell. Compare the Huffy with my Clementine - I was 
> an early adopter.
>
> This was the day the love affair began, friends. I am so happy to have a 
> photo of it. Who else has a story about their first bike? Bonus points if 
> you can also provide photos.
>
> Leah
>
> [image: 9836764F-6714-4872-9033-F9C64A034A14.jpeg]
> [image: C5046809-7A38-4544-909F-E0DEB1A60092.jpeg]
>
>

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[RBW] WTB: Medium cage derailleur

[Joel]

Preference is Suntour but will consider others,  prefer NOS,  
Thank you

Joel 

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Suntour front derailleur double

[Joel]

Steve, sent PM.  

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 9:00:29 AM UTC-4, Steve Cole wrote:
>
> Joel, If you still need one, I have one I could let go.
> Steve
>
> On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 10:58:43 AM UTC-4 Joel wrote:
>
>> Looking for a nice (NOS) double front derailleur. Open to other vintage 
>> brands
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Suntour front derailleur double

[Steve Cole]

Joel, If you still need one, I have one I could let go.
Steve

On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 10:58:43 AM UTC-4 Joel wrote:

> Looking for a nice (NOS) double front derailleur. Open to other vintage 
> brands
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell has the almost perfect crankset for me

[Joel Stern]

John, I have one ready to go.  Not from RBW one, I think they are out of
stock.

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 7:57 AM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Joel
>
> Have you considered the Tange BB RBW sells via Merry Sales??   Should last
> a lifetime with normal repackings.  The 11 ball retainer is available as a
> Campy spare part..
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/bottom-brackets/products/sd16klsej-lkangkn
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell has the almost perfect crankset for me

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Joel

Have you considered the Tange BB RBW sells via Merry Sales??   Should last 
a lifetime with normal repackings.  The 11 ball retainer is available as a 
Campy spare part..

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/bottom-brackets/products/sd16klsej-lkangkn

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

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[RBW] Re: Who is using bike lights?

[Nick Payne]

I have the Niterider Solas on several bikes. I use it in blinking mode, and 
it's easily visible from several hundred metres away in bright sunlight. It 
also has an optional seatstay mount that you can use, which is another plus 
in my book, as I use Carradice or similar saddlebags on most of my bikes, 
and the normal seatpost mount can't be used with a large saddlebag.

I don't bother with front lights for daytime riding.

Nick

On Friday, 21 August 2020 07:55:05 UTC+10, Joel wrote:
>
> 2 close calls in one day. My red blinking cateye is useless in daylight. 
>  I a interested in front and back lights to help me be more visible, your 
> thoughts and experiences are welcome.
>

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