[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne geometry is up at RBW site!
Quoting PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com: http://flickr.com/photos/t2architect/3128394163/in/set-72157610331529941/ Gawd, that's even *pretty! It certainly is. And, like every other attractive threadless stem I've ever seen, it lacks the one major advantage commonly associated with threadless stems, the open front faceplate. I wonder if that's not an accident. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis
There is a service that makes a special bike box and ships Fedex store to Fedex store in the lower 48. I think they are looking at expanding over seas but have not got the numbers to work yet. Forget the name, but I saw someone who used it last summer. The boxes are very well designed. You do not have to take the pedals off or turn the bars. There is room in the box for packs. On Dec 23, 6:46 pm, Doug Peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: To get your bikes around domestically, look into shipping via either Fed Ex or UPS ground. Contact your motel ask them to take delivery of your bike ship it so it gets there a day or 2 ahead of you. Then when you leave you just re-pack your bike, ship it home. Usually runs around $45-50 each way, at least this year. Plus you can load it up with clothes, tools, etc not be as concerned about weight as if you were dealing with the airlines. And you don't have the hassle of getting your bike from the airport to your motel. dougP -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 4:25 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis Jim, I wish I could bring my Bleriot, but I fear the airline prices might be a little high... We should try and have a RBW List get together... On Dec 22, 3:09 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: Thanks all for the input. I found a bike map online that indicates a number of greenways and other bike trails, in addition to bike-able city streets, etc. The NAHB show itself is good for about 4 hours of entertainment for me, but the real reason I want to go is to ride my bike (probably Atlantis) in an unfamiliar city. Indy isn't Portland, but it doesn't look that bad. Jim On Dec 22, 1:31 pm, Sarah Gibson sadieja...@hotmail.com wrote: never ridden bikes there myself but this was one listmember or was it ibob anyhoos this is what he had to say damn, flying there so i won't have wheels. kind of a shame, as the town empties at night with huge spread out roads- I was there for a conference and yearning for a bike. It will be a blast for you all. the one thing a bit troublesome with the town was the difficulty finding vegetarian, but i am not terribly picky (outside of that constraint) and can eat quite minimally.peace well behaved women rarely make history_ride yr friggin bicycle_- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
On Dec 24, 1:06 am, Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not a fan of the 7 shaped stem, and I really really don't like the looks of track stems. A track stem and an Albatross bar? I don't think so. In all seriousness, and in no way bruskly; if you don't like 7-shaped stems and you don't like stems with even less rise (track stems), you must be using a riser stem...right? And so, if you have a problem with getting the bars down low enough, the problem isn't with the type of steertube you have: I think it's your aesthetic choices determining how high your bars are. That said, I find conveniences to both setups. John McMurry Burlington, VT --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
Joel, use whatever you like. That's what I do. I am not trying to make you use a threadless fork, after all. Lots of people have managed to work out the aesthetics somehow. For me the most important issue is flex, and it will not go away no matter how lovely Nitto quill stems may be. Also, there is nothing ratty about my guest bike. It's actually a pretty nice ride, even if the frame is 12 years old. Steve, I explained the limitations in my previous post. Possibly not very clearly. The Atlantis has an extra tall steer tube, accommodated by some spacers. I am glad I did not cut the fork, because I found handlebar bliss on my Atlantis with an old Bridgestone Moustache bar that takes V brake levers (rare item that should not be), and a Periscopa stem. That extra tall steer tube helps keep the flex to a tolerable level, at least on my comfort bike. My point was that it would have been very easy to try the lowest position afforded by a 17 degree stem without cutting anything. This is very common. To say threadless stems are a solution in search of a problem is nonsense. I don't care who said it. Whoever it was probably hates mountain bikes, a common affliction among roadies. On Dec 24, 7:24 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: That whole process can get pretty fiddly, but then so can unwrapping bars and removing levers in order to try a different stem. With modern mountain bike stems, and increasingly common road setups, it's easy to swap between stems. Fiddly and an aesthetic nightmare. Most (all? - not sure) headset makers do not make stems and vice versa. My custom Oswald with threadless fork has a Ti King headset. Before I had a custom stem made, it had a silver Thomson stem. King does not make Ti spacers. So I wound up using the Thomson spacers which did not match the headset. Not a complete aesthetic nightmare, but not optimal. It gets even worse if you use stems and headsets by other manufacturers who do not make spacers. You wind up with three different colors in one of the more prominent parts of the bike. Not a problem if the bike is a ratty old GT. Looks are certainly an issue when you fork out the big bucks for a Rivendell, Velo-Orange or custom steel bike. As a result, most people who buy these bikes are very grateful Nitto continues to make threaded stems with modern alloys and to high tolerances possible with the new forging machinery. It's a very simple matter to swap stems on that bike, and it gets done often. It has air springs on each end, so at the most we swap out saddles, stems, pedals and adjust the air pressure and it's good to go. This is a very common practice. Seems to me you could accomplish the same just as well by adjusting a threaded stem up or down and simply rotating the angle of the bars to meet the riders' preferences. If you are changing the bars as well as the stem, the open face of most threadless stems speeds the task somewhat. Unless the bike is fixed gear, however, it really is not so easy to swap bars. Brake levers are going to be in different positions on the bars, meaning at best you are going to have extra brake cable to deal with. If you are switching from Albatross to drops, you most likely will have to replace the brake cable as the existing cable will not be long enough, and, depending on the levers, may not use the same cable end. And that is assuming you are using non-aero levers that do not route the cable under the tape. So again, it seems to me we are back to a tie in usefullness between the two. I concur that there are many beautiful custom threadless stems. As I have said multiple times here, the custom threadless Jonnycycles made for my Oswald is very lovely. When it comes to off the shelf, however, Nitto is a very special product at a price that is hard to beat. GP has had a tight relationship with Nitto since the Bridgestone era. Under the circumstances, I think his decision to stay with threadless makes a lot of sense. On Dec 24, 12:06 am, Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not a fan of the 7 shaped stem, and I really really don't like the looks of track stems. A track stem and an Albatross bar? I don't think so. The Atlantis comes with 15mm of spacers (I think) under the top nut. I couild have shortened the steer tube up by that much and that might have lowered the Albatross bar enough, but since the stem I was using (an old Cinelli 13cm with a home brewed shim) was far from ideal, I was not willing to make such a committment for an experiment. Bike shop mechanics cut steer tubes of all description routinely, by the way. Anyway, if that same frame had come with a threadless fork, it would have been very easy to try the lowest postion available before cutting the fork. People do this all the time with mountain bike builds. Yes, it looks pretty funny with spacers on top of the stem, but once the position is
[RBW] Re: F/S 1pr 650B Nifty Swifties
A good rule of thumb for tire width WRT to INSIDE Rim Width, IRW: ROAD: 1.4 to 2/2.5 times IRW so for a rim with inside width of 17mm: Tires of 24mm - 35/42mm or so. Brake and QR release will temper max tire width choice for easy tire removal. MTB 1.4-3 times IRW The IRW of most rims will be about 4-5mm the outside width. The width data above is consistent with recommendations given from various sources: Peter White, Sheldon Brown, Mavic, Barnett's Manual, and others no doubt. Look-up and validation is left as an exercise to the reader. So for the Hetre. IRW of Synergy rim = 17mm. 40mm/17mm = 2.35, within the range mentioned above. I have Synergy rims and can say Hetres work fine with them. -- Rod *~*~*Happy Holidays*~*~* On Dec 20, 12:53 pm, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: What rim width does a red balloon, err, Hetre need? Will the Velocity Synergy 650B wheel handle it? From: RodC rcer...@gmail.com After riding Fatty Rumpkins and Hetres, 40+ mm, I just can't see me riding a tire as skinny as 33m any longer. At least not on my 650B bikes. Once you go fat, you won't go back! :-) -- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis
That would be _www.aircaddy.com_ (http://www.aircaddy.com) . I used them this summer and it was a very positive experience. I believed they charged me $99 and they say the box will last for about 3 round trips. At that point, a replacement box costs $39. What's really nice is that you only need to remove the front wheel, maybe the seat (if you have a small bike you maybe able to simply lower the seat tube), and loosen the handle bars and turn them to lower the break hoods. The bad part was that FedEx charged me $150 to ship the box from Louisville, Ky to Killespell, Mt. and the same from El Paso to Kentucky. I found out you can ship the box by UPS but, since there was a Kinkos across the street from the hotel in El Paso, I took the more convenient shipper and maybe not the cheapest. It's a cardboard box but really sturdy with a lot of cross supports so that the bike will not be damaged. Bill In a message dated 12/24/2008 9:29:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, joelmatth...@mac.com writes: There is a service that makes a special bike box and ships Fedex store to Fedex store in the lower 48. **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0025) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
John, the stem I was using with the Albatross was an old Cinelli 7 stem, down as low as it would go. It actually looked pretty good, but I could not get the grips level with the saddle without removing the stock spacers and cutting the fork. Even then it might not have gotten the job done. The combination of old Bridgestone M bar and Periscopa stem puts the grip area at the same level as the saddle. I did try the steel Albatross upside down, but it looked goofy and still required a very long extension. 160mm would not have been too long. The old M bar solved all those problems and actually works best with the Periscopa. If a Nitto 7 type stem had been called for, then that's what would be on there. 7 stems look fine in their natural element, but I would need them to be raised up high with anything but an Albatross on an Atlantis, and that looks silly to me and also just makes the whole system more flexible. Lots of people think that setup looks great; more power to 'em! It's their bike! On Dec 24, 7:52 am, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 24, 1:06 am, Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not a fan of the 7 shaped stem, and I really really don't like the looks of track stems. A track stem and an Albatross bar? I don't think so. In all seriousness, and in no way bruskly; if you don't like 7-shaped stems and you don't like stems with even less rise (track stems), you must be using a riser stem...right? And so, if you have a problem with getting the bars down low enough, the problem isn't with the type of steertube you have: I think it's your aesthetic choices determining how high your bars are. That said, I find conveniences to both setups. John McMurry Burlington, VT --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
Quoting Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com: Steve, I explained the limitations in my previous post. Possibly not very clearly. The Atlantis has an extra tall steer tube, accommodated by some spacers. I am glad I did not cut the fork, because I found handlebar bliss on my Atlantis with an old Bridgestone Moustache bar that takes V brake levers (rare item that should not be), and a Periscopa stem. That extra tall steer tube helps keep the flex to a tolerable level, at least on my comfort bike. So the solution to you can't get the handlebars low enough is to use an upwards sloping stem with an extra long quill? My point was that it would have been very easy to try the lowest position afforded by a 17 degree stem without cutting anything. Almost as easy as pushing a quill stem down all the way. That takes two turns of a 5mm allen key. I'm so confused my head hurts. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis
Jim, I agree in part. Taking the bike to your local bike shop to pack works well. They have the boxes, protective packing material ,and the experience to pack you bike and get it to your destination safely. They're going to do it right because they have a relationship with you. The problem I've had, early in my bicycling experience, is shipping the bike home. Now I'm using a bike shop that doesn't know me and will probably never see me again and depending on the person packing the bike (probably the newest kid on the payroll) it can be a negative experience. In my case it was. Bill In a message dated 12/23/2008 10:48:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, thill@gmail.com writes: I'd also recommend paying a bike shop that does mail order to pack and ship the bike. The shop will generally provide a used box and packing materials for free or at a small cost, and will pack it better than you would yourself. **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0025) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis
If you don't have to turn the bars or remove the pedals, it will necessarily be much larger than a standard bike box. I don't know the exact size criteria, but there's usually a point where the box goes from one size category to the next, and the price more or less doubles. If you can pack it in a normal bike box, say 50x30x7, there's a bit more (dis)assembly involved, but the shipping will be more affordable. Even a little bit bigger than that will typically trigger the OS price hike. I did SS couplers on my Atlantis last year, and took the bike to Portland for NAHBS 2008. It was great to have my own bike with me for the trip. Of course, it was free to take the packed bike on the plane, but the conversion set me back about $750. I have to use it a few more times before I see a profit! If I go to Indianapolis in 2009, it'll be a road-trip, and I won't have to use the couplers. On Dec 24, 9:10 am, bpus...@aol.com wrote: That would be _www.aircaddy.com_(http://www.aircaddy.com) . I used them this summer and it was a very positive experience. I believed they charged me $99 and they say the box will last for about 3 round trips. At that point, a replacement box costs $39. What's really nice is that you only need to remove the front wheel, maybe the seat (if you have a small bike you maybe able to simply lower the seat tube), and loosen the handle bars and turn them to lower the break hoods. The bad part was that FedEx charged me $150 to ship the box from Louisville, Ky to Killespell, Mt. and the same from El Paso to Kentucky. I found out you can ship the box by UPS but, since there was a Kinkos across the street from the hotel in El Paso, I took the more convenient shipper and maybe not the cheapest. It's a cardboard box but really sturdy with a lot of cross supports so that the bike will not be damaged. Bill In a message dated 12/24/2008 9:29:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, joelmatth...@mac.com writes: There is a service that makes a special bike box and ships Fedex store to Fedex store in the lower 48. **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolco...) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
Quoting Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com: As stated, I *did* push the Cinelli stem all the way down, but the Albatross was still too high. Cutting the fork *might* have gotten the bar low enough, but there were other issues and if it did not work, then I would still have a shortened steer tube. They are quite difficult to lengthen. :) No kidding. That's one of the big issues many of us have with threadless. I didn't see that msg until after I'd replied. In the end, I used a different bar, a rare old Bridgestone bar that has about 2 of drop (I just measured). This is the opposite of the Albatross, which has rise unless you turn it over. The Bridgestone bar also requires far less stem extension Yes, different handlebars require different stem extensions. It's a challenge figuring out what you need ahead of time. That's one reason there's so much stem exchanging going on on the lists. It's a good thing you can use an albatross bar - it's one of the most controversial designs ever. I've seen the Albatross mounted upside-down. I think it looks great, very much like the sporting bikes pre-WWI. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
I don't mean to contribute to thread drift, but I have an Albatross on a tandem, and I love it. That bike has a 1-1/4 threaded fork, so the quill stem is very beefy. 150mm of extension and 90 degrees worked out very well and is quite stiff. The Albatross is the extra wide chromoly version, and the whole setup makes it easy to herd that beast around corners. I'd try one on a mountain bike, but they don't work well in rock gardens. I have enough trouble staying upright without the handlebar whacking my legs. On Dec 24, 8:51 am, palin...@his.com wrote: Quoting Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com: As stated, I *did* push the Cinelli stem all the way down, but the Albatross was still too high. Cutting the fork *might* have gotten the bar low enough, but there were other issues and if it did not work, then I would still have a shortened steer tube. They are quite difficult to lengthen. :) No kidding. That's one of the big issues many of us have with threadless. I didn't see that msg until after I'd replied. In the end, I used a different bar, a rare old Bridgestone bar that has about 2 of drop (I just measured). This is the opposite of the Albatross, which has rise unless you turn it over. The Bridgestone bar also requires far less stem extension Yes, different handlebars require different stem extensions. It's a challenge figuring out what you need ahead of time. That's one reason there's so much stem exchanging going on on the lists. It's a good thing you can use an albatross bar - it's one of the most controversial designs ever. I've seen the Albatross mounted upside-down. I think it looks great, very much like the sporting bikes pre-WWI. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 8:53 AM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: To say threadless stems are a solution in search of a problem is nonsense. I don't care who said it. Whoever it was probably hates mountain bikes, a common affliction among roadies. The quote is attributed to Richard Sachs. I do not know what his feelings are about mountain bikes. He makes cross bikes and sponsors a cross team, so he cannot be considered a pure roadie. Yet Richard Sachs uses threadless on most of his new bikes: http://www.richardsachs.com/signaturered.html http://www.richardsachs.com/signatureblue.html http://www.richardsachs.com/cxred.html as does JP weigle: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49353...@n00/2811014159/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/49353...@n00/2617014370/ Personally I will never buy a new bike that specs threaded it is a dealbreaker for me on a new bike. If clinging to obsolete standards I would much rather cling to 1 threadless for road use than quill stems. Tarik -- Tarik Saleh tas at tariksaleh dot com in los alamos, po box 208, 87544 http://tariksaleh.com all sorts of bikes blog: http://tsaleh.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne geometry is up at RBW site!
Or, if you're really picky, use an NVO stem system: http://www.nvocomponents.com/ -Jim G Gawd, that's **ugly**!! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
Frankly, i'm a surprised that this topic has brought up so many arguments on both sides. I always thought that 1 threaded headsets and quill stems were a Rivendell thing, as integral to the identity of the bikes as steel and lugs (excepting the Legolas, of course). I wouldn't ask GP to change that. I'm cool with that and appreciate the bikes for other reasons, and I know that if i ever own one it'll probably have a threaded headset. I'm firmly in the threadless camp (3 bikes, all threadless, 2 even with the illusive 1 threadless! no, headsets are not impossible to find, and most stems come with a shim to make it work), but i'll readily admit that my preference is mostly psychosomatic*. I'm a big guy, mostly ride fixed gear, and i like the idea of wrenching on a bar/ stem that's firmly clamped to the outside of a circular steel steerer tube more than one that is literally wedged into place. I do think the threadless stems make it harder to fine-tune the height adjustment thing isn't as true as many make it out to be. Yes, you'll probably want to cut the steerer tube if there's excessive length above the stem and yes, you have to take the headset out of adjustment to adjust the height of the stem, but they make headset spacers down to 1mm and I doubt that any of you really adjust your stem in increments of less than a millimeter. An advantage of threadless is that you always know by how much you're raising or lowering your bars- no measuring required! *It does help to have Jobst reinforcing my preference: http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/threadless-headset.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne geometry is up at RBW site!
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 7:26 PM, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote: Well, here in the Northeast, that doesn't fly. If you ride in the rain, in the snow, in the mud, or dirt around here for several thousand a year, annual maintenance is necessary; unless you're willing to dispose of these parts a couple years later. I rode in plenty of rain with cheap steel components (Kenya, early '70s, Delhi, late '60s) and never had a stem jam. Oh well, perhaps your riding is different from mine. Back to quill versus Aheadset: I think I'd choose an Aheadset for a new custom, with a custom stem so that I would not have to use spacers. Or perhaps custom made spacer to avoid the rings on the neck look. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kayan_woman_with_neck_rings.jpg Now here is a useful question: let's say you absolutely refused to have steerer sticking up above your stem, as any good Christian and gentleman would. So you leave, let's say, 2 of steerer poking up above the upper bearing race. Fine. Now could one not make a stem with a collar that clamped on this 2 portion but rose higher, being in effect a quill that clamped on the outside of the steerer? Better yet, why not a system whereby you have such an external, clamping quill with a separate stem that clamps to said quill, so that you can replace said quills to raise and lower without the humiliation of having spacers on top of your stem? You'd lose much of the simplicity of the threadless system, yet it still would be simpler than the old quill system. I think I personally would have a new custom threadless stem made. Patrick despite my loquacity on the subject, have no dog fighting in it Moore --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
Quoting Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com: One advantage of threadless forks, from a manufacturing and commercial point of view, is the fact that you only need to make one fork to fit a whole size run of frames. This makes things much easier and significantly less expensive. It would be pretty easy for Grant to order some threadless forks for, say, AHH owners who might want to buy one. I am not saying I think he should, and I do understand why he does not, but it's not like it would be a big deal to do it. It is also not likely to be a big money maker for someone like Rivendell. I do not expect it to happen, and it makes no difference in my opinion of Riv. The only manufacturer I can think of off the top of my head who actually has done something like this is Kogswell, with its Konversion Forks. The way these things go, I expect that at some point there will be some decent chromoly forks with 1 threadless steer tubes readily available for a good price. There are millions of frames out there that they could be used on. Kogswell. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne geometry is up at RBW site!
Back to quill versus Aheadset: I think I'd choose an Aheadset for a new custom, with a custom stem so that I would not have to use spacers. Or perhaps custom made spacer to avoid the rings on the neck look. Guess I am the opposite. My first custom is threadless. I ultimately had a custom stem made for it that does not require spacers. Its beautiful, but came at an additional $450.00. My second custom I specified threadless. The builder double checked as most of his customers ask for threadless. For the record, builder and I are both very happy with how it turned out. On Dec 24, 10:55 am, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 7:26 PM, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote: Well, here in the Northeast, that doesn't fly. If you ride in the rain, in the snow, in the mud, or dirt around here for several thousand a year, annual maintenance is necessary; unless you're willing to dispose of these parts a couple years later. I rode in plenty of rain with cheap steel components (Kenya, early '70s, Delhi, late '60s) and never had a stem jam. Oh well, perhaps your riding is different from mine. Back to quill versus Aheadset: I think I'd choose an Aheadset for a new custom, with a custom stem so that I would not have to use spacers. Or perhaps custom made spacer to avoid the rings on the neck look. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kayan_woman_with_neck_rings.jpg Now here is a useful question: let's say you absolutely refused to have steerer sticking up above your stem, as any good Christian and gentleman would. So you leave, let's say, 2 of steerer poking up above the upper bearing race. Fine. Now could one not make a stem with a collar that clamped on this 2 portion but rose higher, being in effect a quill that clamped on the outside of the steerer? Better yet, why not a system whereby you have such an external, clamping quill with a separate stem that clamps to said quill, so that you can replace said quills to raise and lower without the humiliation of having spacers on top of your stem? You'd lose much of the simplicity of the threadless system, yet it still would be simpler than the old quill system. I think I personally would have a new custom threadless stem made. Patrick despite my loquacity on the subject, have no dog fighting in it Moore --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis
Here's a link to some links regarding riding options in the Indpls/ central Indiana area. http://circlecitybicycles.com/ccinbike.htm Bill Evans On Dec 23, 10:47 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: I just shipped a bike to a UPS customer center near the customer's home. It was much cheaper than it usually is when I ship it to a business or residential address. I'd also recommend paying a bike shop that does mail order to pack and ship the bike. The shop will generally provide a used box and packing materials for free or at a small cost, and will pack it better than you would yourself. If there is damage or loss, the claim is more likely to be paid if a regular shipping customer files it. At least that's been my experience. On Dec 23, 6:46 pm, Doug Peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: To get your bikes around domestically, look into shipping via either Fed Ex or UPS ground. Contact your motel ask them to take delivery of your bike ship it so it gets there a day or 2 ahead of you. Then when you leave you just re-pack your bike, ship it home. Usually runs around $45-50 each way, at least this year. Plus you can load it up with clothes, tools, etc not be as concerned about weight as if you were dealing with the airlines. And you don't have the hassle of getting your bike from the airport to your motel. dougP -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 4:25 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis Jim, I wish I could bring my Bleriot, but I fear the airline prices might be a little high... We should try and have a RBW List get together... On Dec 22, 3:09 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: Thanks all for the input. I found a bike map online that indicates a number of greenways and other bike trails, in addition to bike-able city streets, etc. The NAHB show itself is good for about 4 hours of entertainment for me, but the real reason I want to go is to ride my bike (probably Atlantis) in an unfamiliar city. Indy isn't Portland, but it doesn't look that bad. Jim On Dec 22, 1:31 pm, Sarah Gibson sadieja...@hotmail.com wrote: never ridden bikes there myself but this was one listmember or was it ibob anyhoos this is what he had to say damn, flying there so i won't have wheels. kind of a shame, as the town empties at night with huge spread out roads- I was there for a conference and yearning for a bike. It will be a blast for you all. the one thing a bit troublesome with the town was the difficulty finding vegetarian, but i am not terribly picky (outside of that constraint) and can eat quite minimally.peace well behaved women rarely make history_ride yr friggin bicycle_ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] cross country rider
thought yall might enjoy this http://www.bikingforobama.com/ even have a place for him stay ifn yr on the route peace well behaved women rarely make history _ride yr friggin bicycle_ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
On Dec 24, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Jeremy Till wrote: Frankly, i'm a surprised that this topic has brought up so many arguments on both sides. I always thought that 1 threaded headsets and quill stems were a Rivendell thing, as integral to the identity of the bikes as steel and lugs (excepting the Legolas, of course). I wouldn't ask GP to change that. I'm cool with that and appreciate the bikes for other reasons, and I know that if i ever own one it'll probably have a threaded headset. I'm firmly in the threadless camp (3 bikes, all threadless, 2 even with the illusive 1 threadless! no, headsets are not impossible to find, and most stems come with a shim to make it work), but i'll readily admit that my preference is mostly psychosomatic*. I'm a big guy, mostly ride fixed gear, and i like the idea of wrenching on a bar/ stem that's firmly clamped to the outside of a circular steel steerer tube more than one that is literally wedged into place. From a mechanical perspective, clamping the stem around the steerer tube is a better design than a quill stem. The quill rocks inside the steerer, the wedge may bulge or weaken the steerer causing it to crack, stems with conical expanders tend to break at the slot in the quill, etc. And of course there is the infamous stem frozen into the steerer by corrosion (I've fortunately never had that happen to one of my bikes, but saw it many times at bike shops where I worked). I have two problems with threadless stems. First, most of them are butt-ugly. Fugly even. Big, fat, anodized or painted tubes sticking up at ungainly angles. I really hate the looks of the ones with removable face plates (BTW the two-bolts face plates are dangerous; use the 4 bolt ones to provide redundancy in case a bolt breaks). But that's a subjective opinion based on taste. The second is mechanical. The stem clamp is used to maintain the bearing preload of the headset. This is initially set with the 5 mm Allen bolt in the stem cap, but the preload is held by the stem's pinch bolts. In a crash or even just from the bike getting knocked over, if the bars get knocked askew you can't just twist them back into alignment without gumming up the bearing preload. Out with the Allen wrenches and ten minutes of fiddling with it instead of riding. Is this actually a big issue? Probably not, I've never heard people who use threadless stems moaning about it. I think the best solution is the one used by the old French constructeurs, who were making threadless stems 50 years before MTBs discovered them. The headset was threaded as per usual, but the stem was clamped onto a tube brazed into the steerer. If I went threadless, this is the system I'd use. Interestingly, the constructeurs went back to the standard quill design after a decade or two because of the adjustability issue. Also Tom Ritchey made bikes with clamped-on stems in the 70s- at which time Jobst criticized the design because it was non-standard and could be hard to fix in the boonies; Jobst has since come around to seeing threadless stems as the superior design; you can get replacement parts almost anywhere in the world now. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
Kogswell! Who knew? Thanks for the tip, Steve. That's exactly the sort of info I was hoping to find when I dove into this discussion. I just went to the Kogswell site, and could not find any forks for sale, so I guess the telephone is their preferred marketing tool. I like Kogswell and check their site from time to time. Their prices seem very reasonable, but they do seem to have an unusual approach to marketing. On Dec 24, 10:54 am, palin...@his.com wrote: Quoting Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com: One advantage of threadless forks, from a manufacturing and commercial point of view, is the fact that you only need to make one fork to fit a whole size run of frames. This makes things much easier and significantly less expensive. It would be pretty easy for Grant to order some threadless forks for, say, AHH owners who might want to buy one. I am not saying I think he should, and I do understand why he does not, but it's not like it would be a big deal to do it. It is also not likely to be a big money maker for someone like Rivendell. I do not expect it to happen, and it makes no difference in my opinion of Riv. The only manufacturer I can think of off the top of my head who actually has done something like this is Kogswell, with its Konversion Forks. The way these things go, I expect that at some point there will be some decent chromoly forks with 1 threadless steer tubes readily available for a good price. There are millions of frames out there that they could be used on. Kogswell. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
I usually just leave the bike on the floor, straddle it, remove the top cap, loosen the stem and pull it off. You can hold the hadlebar in one hand while moving spacers around with the other, and then put it all back together. I usually use a similar procedure when swapping stems, but you need to have the new stem in easy reach if you don't have anyone around to assist. On Dec 24, 11:07 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I'm a big guy, mostly ride fixed gear, and i like the idea of wrenching on a bar/ stem that's firmly clamped to the outside of a circular steel steerer tube more than one that is literally wedged into place. I have bikes with either set up. I always worry about the little bolts holding the threadless stem as opposed to the big honking bolt in the middle of the quill. I do think the threadless stems make it harder to fine-tune the height adjustment thing isn't as true as many make it out to be. Yes, you'll probably want to cut the steerer tube if there's excessive length above the stem and yes, you have to take the headset out of adjustment to adjust the height of the stem, but they make headset spacers down to 1mm and I doubt that any of you really adjust your stem in increments of less than a millimeter. An advantage of threadless is that you always know by how much you're raising or lowering your bars- no measuring required! Yeah, but you have to put the bike on the stand, put the bars somewhere, take the ahead cap then stem off, fool with the spacers and put it all back together. On the other hand, I can stop in the middle of a ride, pull out my trusty Park Y allen wrench and move the quill up and down in a matter of seconds. On Dec 24, 10:53 am, Jeremy Till jeremy.t...@gmail.com wrote: Frankly, i'm a surprised that this topic has brought up so many arguments on both sides. I always thought that 1 threaded headsets and quill stems were a Rivendell thing, as integral to the identity of the bikes as steel and lugs (excepting the Legolas, of course). I wouldn't ask GP to change that. I'm cool with that and appreciate the bikes for other reasons, and I know that if i ever own one it'll probably have a threaded headset. I'm firmly in the threadless camp (3 bikes, all threadless, 2 even with the illusive 1 threadless! no, headsets are not impossible to find, and most stems come with a shim to make it work), but i'll readily admit that my preference is mostly psychosomatic*. I'm a big guy, mostly ride fixed gear, and i like the idea of wrenching on a bar/ stem that's firmly clamped to the outside of a circular steel steerer tube more than one that is literally wedged into place. I do think the threadless stems make it harder to fine-tune the height adjustment thing isn't as true as many make it out to be. Yes, you'll probably want to cut the steerer tube if there's excessive length above the stem and yes, you have to take the headset out of adjustment to adjust the height of the stem, but they make headset spacers down to 1mm and I doubt that any of you really adjust your stem in increments of less than a millimeter. An advantage of threadless is that you always know by how much you're raising or lowering your bars- no measuring required! *It does help to have Jobst reinforcing my preference:http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/threadless-headset.html- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
Dear Rivendellians,
Clearly none have considered the benefits of planing as regards the
problematic of threaded stem flex. This slight, often imperceptible,
distortion under duress netted by a quill pays off greatly in the
subharmonic release of said stored energy and propells the rider through the
dead zone of her pedal stroke resulting in a smoother ride and gentler
disposition.
I do have a threadless surly, and I do note it is significantly slower. I
attribute this to stem planing, which is the only clear scientifically
rigorous explanation I care for.
I like quills for a plethora of reasons, philosophic and aesthetic--none of
them performance aside from the quick change of height during a long ride or
tour. If they're good enough for thousands of miles by others in
multivariate conditions, that's good enough for me. I even like greasing my
stem, so...
On a serious note, all this talk about so and so prefers x over y for
reasons {a1, a2, a3} really misses the point in my opinion.
They both work fine, and I still have no idea what the original 'problem'
even was. Ride your bike, and by all means if you need that extra .3 mph in
a sprint convert to threadless--just don't overlook my concise introduction
to the oft-overlooked reality of stem planing, ok?
Have a great thursday eve and a fine holiday,
erik
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:54 AM, palin...@his.com wrote:
Quoting Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com:
One advantage of threadless forks, from a manufacturing and commercial
point of view, is the fact that you only need to make one fork to fit
a whole size run of frames. This makes things much easier and
significantly less expensive. It would be pretty easy for Grant to
order some threadless forks for, say, AHH owners who might want to buy
one. I am not saying I think he should, and I do understand why he
does not, but it's not like it would be a big deal to do it. It is
also not likely to be a big money maker for someone like Rivendell. I
do not expect it to happen, and it makes no difference in my opinion
of Riv.
The only manufacturer I can think of off the top of my head who
actually has done something like this is Kogswell, with its
Konversion Forks.
The way these things go, I expect that at some point there will be
some decent chromoly forks with 1 threadless steer tubes readily
available for a good price. There are millions of frames out there
that they could be used on.
Kogswell.
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[RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis
That sounds fantastic - please try to remember the name of the service post. Packing re-assembling the bike is always a challenge. I urge people to do it themselves so they know how to at the other end. But just popping it into a box picking up at the destination city is probably worth $100 each way. dougP -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JoelMatthews Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:29 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis There is a service that makes a special bike box and ships Fedex store to Fedex store in the lower 48. I think they are looking at expanding over seas but have not got the numbers to work yet. Forget the name, but I saw someone who used it last summer. The boxes are very well designed. You do not have to take the pedals off or turn the bars. There is room in the box for packs. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis: SS
Jim: Who did the conversion for you? Did they insist on re-painting the entire frame? dougP -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:31 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis I did SS couplers on my Atlantis last year, and took the bike to Portland for NAHBS 2008. It was great to have my own bike with me for the trip. Of course, it was free to take the packed bike on the plane, but the conversion set me back about $750. I have to use it a few more times before I see a profit! If I go to Indianapolis in 2009, it'll be a road-trip, and I won't have to use the couplers. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis
Doug: Almost certain it is the AirCaddy Bill links above. On Dec 24, 12:46 pm, Doug Peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: That sounds fantastic - please try to remember the name of the service post. Packing re-assembling the bike is always a challenge. I urge people to do it themselves so they know how to at the other end. But just popping it into a box picking up at the destination city is probably worth $100 each way. dougP -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JoelMatthews Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:29 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis There is a service that makes a special bike box and ships Fedex store to Fedex store in the lower 48. I think they are looking at expanding over seas but have not got the numbers to work yet. Forget the name, but I saw someone who used it last summer. The boxes are very well designed. You do not have to take the pedals off or turn the bars. There is room in the box for packs.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: cross country rider
Thanks for the link. Guy is truly inspired. Even the southern tier this time of the year can get dicey weather. On Dec 24, 8:44 am, Sarah Gibson sadieja...@hotmail.com wrote: thought yall might enjoy this http://www.bikingforobama.com/ even have a place for him stay ifn yr on the route peace well behaved women rarely make history _ride yr friggin bicycle_ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
In my considered opinion, Erik was being facetious. On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:35 PM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: They both work fine, and I still have no idea what the original 'problem' even was. Ride your bike, and by all means if you need that extra .3 mph in a sprint convert to threadless--just don't overlook my concise introduction to the oft-overlooked reality of stem planing, ok? Well, thank you for the holiday wishes Erik (and back at you!), but I fear your planing theory does not advance the debate, at least as I understand it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
In my considered opinion, Erik was being facetious. I was trying to be as well. Unfortunately, I note my spelling is rather poor. On Dec 24, 1:37 pm, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: In my considered opinion, Erik was being facetious. On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:35 PM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: They both work fine, and I still have no idea what the original 'problem' even was. Ride your bike, and by all means if you need that extra .3 mph in a sprint convert to threadless--just don't overlook my concise introduction to the oft-overlooked reality of stem planing, ok? Well, thank you for the holiday wishes Erik (and back at you!), but I fear your planing theory does not advance the debate, at least as I understand it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis: SS
Curt Goodrich did the conversion, along with a few other braze-ons. The paint was beat up before Curt took the torch to it, and it was absolutely scorched afterward. I had it powdercoated all black at Spectrum. On Dec 24, 12:56 pm, Doug Peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Jim: Who did the conversion for you? Did they insist on re-painting the entire frame? dougP -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:31 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: NAHBS Indianapolis I did SS couplers on my Atlantis last year, and took the bike to Portland for NAHBS 2008. It was great to have my own bike with me for the trip. Of course, it was free to take the packed bike on the plane, but the conversion set me back about $750. I have to use it a few more times before I see a profit! If I go to Indianapolis in 2009, it'll be a road-trip, and I won't have to use the couplers. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne geometry is up at RBW site!
On Tue, 2008-12-23 at 12:03 -0800, Chris Halasz wrote: Tried a bike this past year with a threadless stem; it was the largest sized, and I could *not* find a production stem that brought the bars within a cm of saddle height (cm to zero difference) that wasn't stretched too far, or just incredibly ugly. Even then, I couldn't get it to work. Maybe if the steerer hadn't been pre-cut. That's definitely an issue - most threadless stems are butt ugly. The Nitto TFL was not, but that was an accident, and we won't see them again. The Nitto lugged threadless stem is nice, but definitely not inexpensive. Same is true for the fillet brazed Nitto track threadless stem - and they're not only expensive, they're only in 25.4 and long sizes. And what's more, none of these have removable faceplates. There are some gorgeous custom threadless stems out there. They're expensive, and again as a rule they don't have removable faceplates. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne geometry is up at RBW site!
With respect to your opinion, I don't think standard threadless stems are ugly. I also don't think it's relevant. I prefer threadless stems for the reasons I listed in my first post to this thread: they make it easier to change stems and handlebars, and they can be serviced or adjusted with just a 5mm Allen wrench, while threaded headsets require large wrenches that have no other purpose on a bike (or anywhere in my life). Others here clearly prefer threaded stems. That's fine, too. It looks like I'd need to ask Rivendell if they have uncut stems available for use with a threadless headset. I still believe that using a threadless headset on a threaded steer tube is no problem. -Wesley --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
Eric,
Stem Planing You might be on the something...I wonder, with
insufficient fastener torque, if one could induce brake lever planing
or handlebar planing.
I have an old Guerciotti Aluminum (I belive it was made by Alan) that
has a 1 threaded, all aluminum fork...think about this...the steerer
tube had the same outside diameter as a steel fork AND the same inside
diameter as a steel fork but made with a material that is 1/3rd as
stiff. Fork planing! No wonder I used to be so much faster
Angus
On Dec 24, 12:22 pm, erik jensen radiophonicworks...@gmail.com
wrote:
Dear Rivendellians,
Clearly none have considered the benefits of planing as regards the
problematic of threaded stem flex. This slight, often imperceptible,
distortion under duress netted by a quill pays off greatly in the
subharmonic release of said stored energy and propells the rider through the
dead zone of her pedal stroke resulting in a smoother ride and gentler
disposition.
I do have a threadless surly, and I do note it is significantly slower. I
attribute this to stem planing, which is the only clear scientifically
rigorous explanation I care for.
I like quills for a plethora of reasons, philosophic and aesthetic--none of
them performance aside from the quick change of height during a long ride or
tour. If they're good enough for thousands of miles by others in
multivariate conditions, that's good enough for me. I even like greasing my
stem, so...
On a serious note, all this talk about so and so prefers x over y for
reasons {a1, a2, a3} really misses the point in my opinion.
They both work fine, and I still have no idea what the original 'problem'
even was. Ride your bike, and by all means if you need that extra .3 mph in
a sprint convert to threadless--just don't overlook my concise introduction
to the oft-overlooked reality of stem planing, ok?
Have a great thursday eve and a fine holiday,
erik
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:54 AM, palin...@his.com wrote:
Quoting Atlantean softlysoftlycatcheemon...@gmail.com:
One advantage of threadless forks, from a manufacturing and commercial
point of view, is the fact that you only need to make one fork to fit
a whole size run of frames. This makes things much easier and
significantly less expensive. It would be pretty easy for Grant to
order some threadless forks for, say, AHH owners who might want to buy
one. I am not saying I think he should, and I do understand why he
does not, but it's not like it would be a big deal to do it. It is
also not likely to be a big money maker for someone like Rivendell. I
do not expect it to happen, and it makes no difference in my opinion
of Riv.
The only manufacturer I can think of off the top of my head who
actually has done something like this is Kogswell, with its
Konversion Forks.
The way these things go, I expect that at some point there will be
some decent chromoly forks with 1 threadless steer tubes readily
available for a good price. There are millions of frames out there
that they could be used on.
Kogswell.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne geometry is up at RBW site!
Wesley, the problem is with using a threadless stem on the threaded portion of a steer tube. That would not be a secure connection, but it would be a good way to start cutting threads into the clamp area of the stem. If you mean using a threaded fork with the threaded part cut off, then yes, people have been dong that for years. On Dec 24, 3:27 pm, Invisible brooks.wes...@gmail.com wrote: With respect to your opinion, I don't think standard threadless stems are ugly. I also don't think it's relevant. I prefer threadless stems for the reasons I listed in my first post to this thread: they make it easier to change stems and handlebars, and they can be serviced or adjusted with just a 5mm Allen wrench, while threaded headsets require large wrenches that have no other purpose on a bike (or anywhere in my life). Others here clearly prefer threaded stems. That's fine, too. It looks like I'd need to ask Rivendell if they have uncut stems available for use with a threadless headset. I still believe that using a threadless headset on a threaded steer tube is no problem. -Wesley --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Stems, steer tubes, threads and lack thereof
Stem Planing You might be on the something...I wonder, with insufficient fastener torque, if one could induce brake lever planing or handlebar planing. I love it! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne geometry is up at RBW site!
I also don't think it's relevant Looks are relevant when the discussion is Rivendell. Certainly Rivs have a lot more going for them than their good looks, but looks is part of the reason they have such a loyal following. Otherwise, a lot more Riv owners would have bought a Surly. they can be serviced or adjusted with just a 5mm Allen wrench, while threaded headsets require large wrenches that have no other purpose on a bike (or anywhere in my life). I don't follow this. You don't have to do anything with the headset when you adjust a quill stem. On Dec 24, 4:27 pm, Invisible brooks.wes...@gmail.com wrote: With respect to your opinion, I don't think standard threadless stems are ugly. I also don't think it's relevant. I prefer threadless stems for the reasons I listed in my first post to this thread: they make it easier to change stems and handlebars, and they can be serviced or adjusted with just a 5mm Allen wrench, while threaded headsets require large wrenches that have no other purpose on a bike (or anywhere in my life). Others here clearly prefer threaded stems. That's fine, too. It looks like I'd need to ask Rivendell if they have uncut stems available for use with a threadless headset. I still believe that using a threadless headset on a threaded steer tube is no problem. -Wesley --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] ride report: circling Manhattan on a Ramb
Happy holidays everyone. Since the perimeter of the island of Manhattan is now mostly bike paths, it's possible to circle the island by bike with minimal street use. Best time of year? Now, when it's cold outside, and the usual congestion of joggers/rollerbladers/ walkers are indoors. Best tool for the job? Something with clearance for wider tires (some sections are rough!). Here's just a few scenes along the way... The USS Intrepid is back at Pier 86 (W46th Street) after a 2-year overhaul. www.flickr.com/photos/millhiser/3133793495 One of the fastest sections of the bike path, under the West Side Highway in the Upper West Side (in the 60s). www.flickr.com/photos/millhiser/3134614862 Along the Hudson near the 79th St Boat Basin (note GWB in the background). www.flickr.com/photos/millhiser/3134614622 Enjoy, Will Chelsea, NYC --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillborne Foy Mini Report - From Monday
Jim, Nice, I tried the mixte a few weeks ago, feel lighter than other. What did GP say about the tubing choice? Also, I myself prefer the plastic cable guide on the BB, which is new for them. Ron On Dec 24, 6:17 pm, CycloFiend cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: Hey there - Had a chance to scoot by RBWHQL on Monday, scoring one of the brand new wool caps and getting a chance to ride both the 56 Sam Hillborne and the Betty Foy. Wrote it up here -http://ramblings.cyclofiend.com/?p=316 Hope to get back over there for a longer Hillborne loop when the testers arrive. In the meantime, I think that those are pretty interesting bikes they've come up with. Happy Holidays! - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes You must be the change you want to see in the world. Mahatma Gandhi --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: ride report: circling Manhattan on a Ramb
OK, be honest now, are you BSNYC? How many miles is a ride around the island? Cheers, DE On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Will wpm...@gmail.com wrote: Happy holidays everyone. Since the perimeter of the island of Manhattan is now mostly bike paths, it's possible to circle the island by bike with minimal street use. Best time of year? Now, when it's cold outside, and the usual congestion of joggers/rollerbladers/ walkers are indoors. Best tool for the job? Something with clearance for wider tires (some sections are rough!). Here's just a few scenes along the way... The USS Intrepid is back at Pier 86 (W46th Street) after a 2-year overhaul. www.flickr.com/photos/millhiser/3133793495 One of the fastest sections of the bike path, under the West Side Highway in the Upper West Side (in the 60s). www.flickr.com/photos/millhiser/3134614862 Along the Hudson near the 79th St Boat Basin (note GWB in the background). www.flickr.com/photos/millhiser/3134614622 Enjoy, Will Chelsea, NYC -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: ride report: circling Manhattan on a Ramb
Hey Will - I live right by Chelsea Pier. I'll be looking for your bike on the path... I have a white Bridgestone XO-2.. Going to the Riv store in SF in a week or so.. very excited... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
