date:20131210

Eric:  Coming from a fellow Niner rider (I ride an MCR), I'd better believe 
it.  Great write-up (especially like the snow photos).  I actually ran into 
a few RD dudes from Surly at the Fruita Fat Tire festival in April.  We 
had just finished a thrill ride on Zippity-Doo-Dah and ran into these guys 
in the lot (where I immediately noticed this awesome bike layin on its 
side)... I said to the guy That looks like Pugsley's big brother... He 
replied It's a Krampus... 29er... here, take it for a spin... So I did. 
 WOW, surprisingly fast and nimble, although it was all on flat, fast and 
flowy dirt/sand single track... I didn't get a chance to climb with it... 
but wow, what a cool (and FUN) bike.  They both had em (prototypes), set up 
for SS... Perhaps one day... although I gotta say, riding a nice steel, 
nimble 29er on tight technical forested trails is so blissful, I wonder how 
it could ever get better...  

But sorry, this is getting off-topic... Still, I hope where this is all 
heading is with further growth of the 'adventure bike' category... 
something that all Rivs seem to comfortably fit in already... 

Peace,
BB


On Monday, December 9, 2013 8:17:27 PM UTC-5, Eric Daume wrote:

 I demo'd a Krampus this weekend, and I didn't find any issues with the 
 slacker head angle--and this is coming from a guy that really enjoyed a 
 mountain bike with a 74* head angle.


 http://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2013/12/global-fat-bike-day-and-krampus.html

 My bike fund is in some danger...

 Eric Daume
 Dublin, OH


 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Montclair BobbyB 
 montcla...@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 I love what Surly is doing with the 29er+ bikes (Krampus / ECR), except 
 I'm not a big fan of the slightly slack headtube angle (69.5 degree)... 
 maybe Surly is concerned about toe overlap (with those gargantuan tires)... 
 still I'd rather see a longer top tube than slack head angle... For 
 downhill, great... but for climbing, nimble maneuvering and certainly for 
 touring I'd rather have something closer to 71/72.

 But maybe that's just me... 

 On Sunday, December 8, 2013 6:40:54 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Not directly related to the Hunquapillar, but interesting in a 
 Rivendellianisticishianesquetic way or, at very least, 
 quasi-crypto-Rivendellian. Ish. And it's local, land of red 'n' green.

 http://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/

 Patrick Moore, contemplating a lugged, more-rake fork from Chauncey for 
 his Fargo in frigid ABQ, NM.

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[RBW] Re: For Sale, Nigel Smythe Trunksack, Mini Front Rack, Brooks Countess, others

Shame the bike cave is bursting at the seams... That Stumpy is awfully 
nice... Can't  must not open link tophotos

On Monday, December 9, 2013 4:32:09 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:

 Update, grips and headset are spoken for as well. Thanks all


 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Peter Morgano 
 uscpet...@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 Hello all. My closing date is creeping up and my wife has informed me 
 there will be no bike room since we will be having her elderly mother 
 over more often than not. I will survive but my bike collection has to be 
 pared down. 

 FS--all prices include shipping

 Nigel Smythe Trunksack in tweed-perfect condition, irish strap 
 included--$85

 Nitto mini front rack, looks new, includes bolts and nuts--$85

 Brooks Countess--My wife rode this for 30 miles, she liked the old Terry 
 better--$75

 Mismatched set of cork grips, one bar end one not, brand new--$15

 Dia Compe 135 brake levers-$10

 Alfine Chain Tensioner--$15

 Tange Levin headset-used but with plenty of life, free for the price of 
 shipping $5

 I also still have my 1983 Rivved out Stumpjumper for sale, again prefer 
 not to ship since shipping from Brooklyn costs so much. I have 500 in it 
 but need to unload, will take $400, can meet in the 4 boroughs. 

 Here is a link to my flikr page, I am a reasonable person, open to any 
 reasonable offer. Thanks all

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/67889635@N06/ 
  
 Peter





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[RBW] Re: What is a mountain bike?

  

On Monday, December 9, 2013 1:09:14 PM UTC-7, Montclair BobbyB wrote:

 I love what Surly is doing with the 29er+ bikes (Krampus / ECR), except 
 I'm not a big fan of the slightly slack headtube angle (69.5 degree)... 
 maybe Surly is concerned about toe overlap (with those gargantuan tires)... 
 still I'd rather see a longer top tube than slack head angle... For 
 downhill, great... but for climbing, nimble maneuvering and certainly for 
 touring I'd rather have something closer to 71/72.

 But maybe that's just me... 



Quite a few manufacturers are going to slacker head angles these days, and 
it's been puzzling me, too.  Obviously, they've been increasing the offset 
of the forks to compensate and reduce the  trail back to a familiar 
number.  The remarkable thing is that almost everybody who rides them says 
that they handle just as well in off-road situations as the bikes we're 
used to.  

From what I can figure out, I think the move has to do with a slate of new 
suspension forks that will be hitting the market, and the desire to be 
compatible with them.  Those forks must have more rake/offset to them, 
too.  As the travel gets longer and longer, I guess it makes sense that 
you'd want to stick the fork outward, where it compresses in a slightly 
more horizontal vector, rather than keep jacking up the front end.   And 
slight differences in tire diameter and fork travel would theoretically 
have less effect on effective frame angles too, as people experiment with 
these things.   And I suppose that there's less  leverage exerted on the 
headtube, for a given fork length, which reduces risk of frame damage.  

I also agree that eliminating toe overlap with bigger and bigger tires must 
also come into play, but it's interesting that others BESIDES Surly, who 
single-handedly drive the big tire market, are going this way.  This is 
my working theory anyway, as a curious industry non-insider

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[RBW] RBW Tea Drinkers must Try - maybe not OT

2013-12-10 Thread NWAJack

lapsang souchong - smells and tastes like a camp fire.  Reminds me  of pine 
tar soap.Sorry if off topic, though you all might want to give it a try.
-Jack
 

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[RBW] Racing Sucks

Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
do: 

http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks

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[RBW] Phil CHP pedals

2013-12-10 Thread Clayton

http://bend.craigslist.org/bik/4234360525.html

I found these on Craigslist. I'm not buying them, just posting this for a 
Phil lover out there
Claytonious Q

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[RBW] Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

The situation: we hope to take an unbudgeted (as in we didn’t plan for it till 
a few weeks ago and thus have no budget for it) car camping trip to escape the 
demolition/construction of stuff damaged in the July flooding immediately 
across the creek from our home (because of my bludgeoned brain I am ultra 
sensitive to noise, especially the deep mechanical tones of construction). Thus 
we will be:

— a family of 6, youngest being 1
— in a mini-van with tents
— seeking places that are generally warmer than 30˚F at night (the whole family 
does not have cold weather gear) in January and February.
— seeking remote, quiet and free camping in national forest with good family 
hikes, rides, runs so we can spend a week or two in some spots before moving on
— We are self sufficient with water jugs, stove, and food for up to 10-days at 
a time.

Possible plan:
Tour south from Colorado Springs to southern New Mexico, then cut over to 
remote areas in the vicinity of Tucson and Phoenix AZ, then possibly head 
across to southern California desert and the coast (would love to visit the 
islands off Santa Barbara).

Very open to ideas on how to make this work and places that meet the above 
criteria. Thanks!

With abandon,
Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
www.OurHolyConception.org

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[RBW] Re: WTB -- contemporary 47-57 brake calipers

Thanks very much for the responses on-list and off.  I got this handled.

~pb  




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[RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

2013-12-10 Thread Liesl

Joshua Tree is really a spectacular place and the weather should be warm 
enough at night (I think).  If you can haul water, the campground without 
facilities is quiet in my experience.  Mostly rock climbers.  It is a place 
that is good for the soul.  I camped there twice when I lived in SF; once 
in November for Thanksgiving.  Friends had a 1 year old and it worked for a 
few days.  Ranks tops on the list of memorable thanksgivings.  Night lows 
then were low 30's, maybe high 20's.  Check it out.

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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

Nah, it's pretty much a fail.  The hoped-for side-effect did not occur.

:-)

~pb
(Cat II, 1977-1987)

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[RBW] Re: RBW Tea Drinkers must Try - maybe not OT

2013-12-10 Thread Liesl

Is this perhaps a variant of the Association of Caffienated Wheelmen?

Or perhaps there could be an Association of Pine Tar Wheelers?

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:38:47 AM UTC-6, NWAJack wrote:

 lapsang souchong - smells and tastes like a camp fire.  Reminds me  of 
 pine tar soap.Sorry if off topic, though you all might want to give it 
 a try.
 -Jack
  


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[RBW] Re: RBW Tea Drinkers must Try - maybe not OT

Scottish Breakfast has a bit of Lapsang Souchong in it, and owes its 
smokiness to that.  I agree, it's very campfirey

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:38:47 AM UTC-8, NWAJack wrote:

 lapsang souchong - smells and tastes like a camp fire.  Reminds me  of 
 pine tar soap.Sorry if off topic, though you all might want to give it 
 a try.
 -Jack
  


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[RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

Great suggestion, Liesl. Saguaro, Joshua Tree, Mojeve, Death Valley, and 
Channel Islands are on our list. Depending not he NP set up at the 
campgrounds, they can be very quiet or obnoxiously loud. The trick is 
discerning which it is before I get screwed up and need two days to 
recover. Sardonic grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:24:55 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:

 Joshua Tree is really a spectacular place and the weather should be warm 
 enough at night (I think).  If you can haul water, the campground without 
 facilities is quiet in my experience.  Mostly rock climbers.  It is a place 
 that is good for the soul.  I camped there twice when I lived in SF; once 
 in November for Thanksgiving.  Friends had a 1 year old and it worked for a 
 few days.  Ranks tops on the list of memorable thanksgivings.  Night lows 
 then were low 30's, maybe high 20's.  Check it out.


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[RBW] FS: SlickerSack Platrack

2013-12-10 Thread Allan in Portland

Hello,

Green canvas Slickersack, NIB. Straps, pads, dividers, product registration 
card... the whole nine yards.
Platrack is used, but the extra long mounting struts that go with it are 
not.

$300 shipped CONUS. Paypal preferred.

The perfect gift for that certain hard-to-buy-for loved one on your 
Christmas list. (Assuming you're the hard-to-buy-for loved one, just bounce 
this email to your loved, they'll get the hint. :) )

I'll be uploading photos shortly, but it's NIB so not exactly anything 
unique to show, that isn't already known.

Thanks,
-Allan

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[RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

2013-12-10 Thread cyclotour...@gmail.com

Yes, Joshua Tree is a great recommendation. There's a chance you might get 
stuck next to an RV's generator, but probably not in the camps w/out water. 
Funny how motorhomes that carry their own water tend to not be used in 
places without it. The smaller sites are great and pretty intimate IMHO.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=64942209@N00q=joshua%20tree

VERY kid friendly place. Just let 'em loose on the rock jumbles and they'll 
be busy for the day! Good hiking for miles.


On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:24:55 AM UTC-8, Liesl wrote:

 Joshua Tree is really a spectacular place and the weather should be warm 
 enough at night (I think).  If you can haul water, the campground without 
 facilities is quiet in my experience.  Mostly rock climbers.  It is a place 
 that is good for the soul.  I camped there twice when I lived in SF; once 
 in November for Thanksgiving.  Friends had a 1 year old and it worked for a 
 few days.  Ranks tops on the list of memorable thanksgivings.  Night lows 
 then were low 30's, maybe high 20's.  Check it out.


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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread Pondero

It is an interesting (to me) contrast between Rivendell's Unracer and 
Surly's Racing Sucks. 

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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread Mike Schiller

not surprising they  would do a patch like this... their bikes suck for 
racing.  I like the competitive aspects of cycling as well as the 
non-competitive ones.Just not those fruit bowl jerseys.

~mike


On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
 do: 

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks


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[RBW] Re: Heron 650B project + Soma 650B xpress

Max, you have a lot of classy bikes in those photos.  I look forward to 
riding with you when we make the move to Sebastopol.

Best,

Peter

On Friday, December 6, 2013 3:27:08 PM UTC-8, reynoldslugs wrote:

 Several months ago I posted about converting my old Heron (purchased from 
 RBWHQ around 2000 or so) to 650b.  The project is coming along kinda 
 slowly, but it's fun.  I cannot wait to ride these 38 mm Soma xpress tires. 
  Here's a work in progress shot:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/11243443374/

 Not sure if those bars will stay - may change over to my new favorites, 
 the On-One Mary's.

 stay tuned -

 Max Beach
 Sonoma County


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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread Allan in Portland

Until I read the Surly-guy's thought on the patch, I thought it was 
supposed to be an ironic joke, which it still kind of is. I'm thinking of 
the Paris-Roubaix quote I saw the other day from some racer after being 
forced to drop-out, It's bollacks! ... I'll be back.

And it is a telling contrast between Grant and Surly. Maybe it's a 
generational thing.

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
 do: 

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks


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[RBW] FS pedals, pumps, pants, etc

2013-12-10 Thread Brencho

Selling a few items to make space in the old closet: 

MUSA Pants, black, size large, brand new: $40
MUSA Shorts, all Grey, size medium, worn once: $35
MKS Touring Pedals with tan Power Grips: $40
Zefal HPX Frame pump No. 4: $20
Topeak Roadblaster size 54-59: $15
Sigma 1609 Cadence bike computer, never used: $25
Marmot Sawtooth 15F down sleeping bag, great shape: $100
Keen Newport sandals, used once, size 9.5: $50
Teva sandals, used once, size 9 (run large, i usually wear shoes size 10): 
$30
Wool thick beanie with earflaps, colorful (mostly light blue with some 
orange and dark red), got it in Nepal many years ago and is in perfect 
shape: $20

Would prefer local deals in the SF-bay area, but I'm open to shipping too...

cheers,
brencho

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[RBW] Re: What is a mountain bike?

2013-12-10 Thread Mojo

Actually the Krampus does not have more fork rake to offset the slack 
headtube angle. I did some measurements awhile back but can't find them 
now. As I remember the Krampus has trail values in the 90s! I find this to 
be bizarre. Surly designs are smart and well thought out. I am just not 
understanding these super high trail designs. Interesting the iamkeith 
found the Krampus to be nimble. 
 
My mtn bike experience: my favorite mtn bike so far was the MB-1 with trail 
in the mid 60s, I found my next bike, a Salsa Ala Carte, with trail in the 
mid 70s to be not as sprite. I have not tried a Krampus. I have a Pugsley 
with trail in the 80s. Its super resistant to turns at speed. I still have 
fun on this bike, but the steering is *suboptimal*.
 
BTW, if you are looking for an adventure bike, the Pugsley of course has 
tractor capabilities. But with a set of 29er wheels and a 2.3 tire it 
becomes a faster (not fast!), more versatile all terrain vehicle. And its 
trail will only be in the 80s, not 90s!
 

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:34:27 AM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:

   

 On Monday, December 9, 2013 1:09:14 PM UTC-7, Montclair BobbyB wrote:

 I love what Surly is doing with the 29er+ bikes (Krampus / ECR), except 
 I'm not a big fan of the slightly slack headtube angle (69.5 degree)... 
 maybe Surly is concerned about toe overlap (with those gargantuan tires)... 
 still I'd rather see a longer top tube than slack head angle... For 
 downhill, great... but for climbing, nimble maneuvering and certainly for 
 touring I'd rather have something closer to 71/72.

 But maybe that's just me... 



 Quite a few manufacturers are going to slacker head angles these days, and 
 it's been puzzling me, too.  Obviously, they've been increasing the offset 
 of the forks to compensate and reduce the  trail back to a familiar 
 number.  The remarkable thing is that almost everybody who rides them says 
 that they handle just as well in off-road situations as the bikes we're 
 used to.  

 From what I can figure out, I think the move has to do with a slate of new 
 suspension forks that will be hitting the market, and the desire to be 
 compatible with them.  Those forks must have more rake/offset to them, 
 too.  As the travel gets longer and longer, I guess it makes sense that 
 you'd want to stick the fork outward, where it compresses in a slightly 
 more horizontal vector, rather than keep jacking up the front end.   And 
 slight differences in tire diameter and fork travel would theoretically 
 have less effect on effective frame angles too, as people experiment with 
 these things.   And I suppose that there's less  leverage exerted on the 
 headtube, for a given fork length, which reduces risk of frame damage.  

 I also agree that eliminating toe overlap with bigger and bigger tires 
 must also come into play, but it's interesting that others BESIDES Surly, 
 who single-handedly drive the big tire market, are going this way.  This 
 is my working theory anyway, as a curious industry non-insider


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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread Matthew J

'Ceptin the 100 meter dash, racing of any sort bores me to tears.  But I 
have no desire to annoy those who do like it.  Long as they don't try and 
convince me to join them, we're fine.

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 11:24:57 AM UTC-6, pb wrote:

 Nah, it's pretty much a fail.  The hoped-for side-effect did not occur.

 :-)

 ~pb
 (Cat II, 1977-1987)


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Re: [RBW] FS pedals, pumps, pants, etc

I'll take your Atlantis for $250.

WHAT?!


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Brencho bren...@gmail.com wrote:

 Selling a few items to make space in the old closet:

 MUSA Pants, black, size large, brand new: $40
 MUSA Shorts, all Grey, size medium, worn once: $35
 MKS Touring Pedals with tan Power Grips: $40
 Zefal HPX Frame pump No. 4: $20
 Topeak Roadblaster size 54-59: $15
 Sigma 1609 Cadence bike computer, never used: $25
 Marmot Sawtooth 15F down sleeping bag, great shape: $100
 Keen Newport sandals, used once, size 9.5: $50
 Teva sandals, used once, size 9 (run large, i usually wear shoes size 10):
 $30
 Wool thick beanie with earflaps, colorful (mostly light blue with some
 orange and dark red), got it in Nepal many years ago and is in perfect
 shape: $20

 Would prefer local deals in the SF-bay area, but I'm open to shipping
 too...

 cheers,
 brencho

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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

Just Ride and Unracer are accurate - even philosophical - Racing sucks is 
hyperbole and offensive.  

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:06:32 PM UTC-6, Pondero wrote:

 It is an interesting (to me) contrast between Rivendell's Unracer and 
 Surly's Racing Sucks. 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread Steve Palincsar


On 12/10/2013 02:28 PM, Ron Mc wrote:
Just Ride and Unracer are accurate - even philosophical - Racing sucks 
is hyperbole and offensive.


On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:06:32 PM UTC-6, Pondero wrote:

It is an interesting (to me) contrast between Rivendell's
Unracer and Surly's Racing Sucks.

--
Surly does, after all, mean bad-tempered and unfriendly, a mood echoed 
by the font used in the Surly downtube logo.  Contrast that with 
Rivendell's logo fonts.



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[RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

Any recommendations on state parks that fit the bill, particularly Southern 
AZ and SoCal? A trip with me is all about flexibility, which some national 
parks fail at, requiring online reservations. Depending on all kinds of 
brain factors we may think were somewhere for a week, but x,y, or z changes 
that and we need to leave immediately. 

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: RBW Tea Drinkers must Try - maybe not OT

2013-12-10 Thread Chris in Redding, Ca.

My wife's favorite. Smoked with pine needles I think I remember.
Chris
Redding, Ca.

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[RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

2013-12-10 Thread WETH

http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/coronado/recreation/bicycling/recarea/?recid=25596actid=64

http://www.nps.gov/sagu/planyourvisit/upload/Saguaro-Wilderness-Area.pdf

http://azstateparks.com/Parks/CATA/

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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

I like the photo of the guy racing on a Big Dummy.  That freaking rocks. 
 It makes me anticipate the smile I will smile when I see somebody winning 
a local 'cross race wearing a racing sucks patch.  That also will be 
cool.  

Racing is awesome, and so is unracing.  Wearing patches you want to wear is 
also awesome.  

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
 do: 

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks


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Re: [RBW] FS pedals, pumps, pants, etc

2013-12-10 Thread Brencho

haha nice one chris. i almost just typed 'deal' without realizing it wasn't 
on the list! 


On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 11:22:29 AM UTC-8, Christopher Chen wrote:

 I'll take your Atlantis for $250.

 WHAT?!


 On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Brencho bre...@gmail.com 
 javascript:wrote:

 Selling a few items to make space in the old closet: 

 MUSA Pants, black, size large, brand new: $40
 MUSA Shorts, all Grey, size medium, worn once: $35
 MKS Touring Pedals with tan Power Grips: $40
 Zefal HPX Frame pump No. 4: $20
 Topeak Roadblaster size 54-59: $15
 Sigma 1609 Cadence bike computer, never used: $25
 Marmot Sawtooth 15F down sleeping bag, great shape: $100
 Keen Newport sandals, used once, size 9.5: $50
 Teva sandals, used once, size 9 (run large, i usually wear shoes size 
 10): $30
 Wool thick beanie with earflaps, colorful (mostly light blue with some 
 orange and dark red), got it in Nepal many years ago and is in perfect 
 shape: $20

 Would prefer local deals in the SF-bay area, but I'm open to shipping 
 too...

 cheers,
 brencho

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[RBW] Re: FS pedals, pumps, pants, etc

2013-12-10 Thread Brencho

Forgot 2 other items: 

New Zealand Wool Sleeveless Shirt, size XL, never worn: $25

Pendleton vintage wool black and white large check/gingham shirt, size M: 
$40


 MUSA Pants, black, size large, brand new: $40
 MUSA Shorts, all Grey, size medium, worn once: $35
 MKS Touring Pedals with tan Power Grips: $40
 Zefal HPX Frame pump No. 4: $20
 Topeak Roadblaster size 54-59: $15
 Sigma 1609 Cadence bike computer, never used: $25
 Marmot Sawtooth 15F down sleeping bag, great shape: $100
 Keen Newport sandals, used once, size 9.5: $50
 Teva sandals, used once, size 9 (run large, i usually wear shoes size 10): 
 $30
 Wool thick beanie with earflaps, colorful (mostly light blue with some 
 orange and dark red), got it in Nepal many years ago and is in perfect 
 shape: $20

 Would prefer local deals in the SF-bay area, but I'm open to shipping 
 too...

 cheers,
 brencho


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[RBW] Re: SoCal Overnighter AKA S240 December 13 14th

2013-12-10 Thread Coconutbill



 It's hard to break a coconut.

 Looks like I'll be free for the other options.

-Evan


 

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[RBW] Re: FS: Wool Jerseys / Wool Trainer

2013-12-10 Thread Adam DeFayette

The Trainer and Italian National Jersey have sold!

Inexplicably, the Cinzano trainer is still for sale. Breaking Away, c'mon!

See below for details -

Adam

On Monday, November 18, 2013 11:04:00 AM UTC-5, Adam DeFayette wrote:

I have 2 Woolistic Wool jersies for for sale, and 1 Woolistic Wool trainer.

All are in perfect like-new condition, size medium.

Links to each, here:

*http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/wool-trainers/28-molteni-winter-trainer.html*http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/wool-trainers/28-molteni-winter-trainer.html

- selling for $150

http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/team-wool-jerseys/11-cinzano-wool-jersey.html
-
selling for $85

http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/unique-wool-jerseys/38-italian-national-wool-jersey.html
-
selling for $75

Add $7.00 for shipping in the CONUS.

Or, buy all three items for a flat $300 ($10 discount), and I'll waive
shipping.

These are beautiful pieces, I hate to let them go, but my wife and I are
expecting a child soon, and I'm trying to raise some money.

Please contact me at adam...@hotmail.com

Paypal ONLY, to the above email address.

Thank you :-)

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[RBW] Re: FS: Wool Jerseys / Wool Trainer

2013-12-10 Thread Adam DeFayette

The Trainer and Italian National Jersey have sold!
Inexplicably, the Cinzano jersey is still for sale. Breaking Away, c'mon!
See below for details -
Adam

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:39:18 AM UTC-5, Adam DeFayette wrote:

No one has contacted me, so prices are dropping.

Let's go with $140 for the trainer, and $75 and $65 for the jersies
respectively.

Take all three for $275, free shipping.

contact me off-list at adam.defaye...@gmail.com or adam...@hotmail.com

Thanks!

On Monday, November 18, 2013 11:04:00 AM UTC-5, Adam DeFayette wrote:

I have 2 Woolistic Wool jersies for for sale, and 1 Woolistic
Wool trainer.

All are in perfect like-new condition, size medium.

Links to each, here:

*http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/wool-trainers/28-molteni-winter-trainer.html*http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/wool-trainers/28-molteni-winter-trainer.html

- selling for $150

http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/team-wool-jerseys/11-cinzano-wool-jersey.html
-
selling for $85

http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/unique-wool-jerseys/38-italian-national-wool-jersey.html
-
selling for $75

Add $7.00 for shipping in the CONUS.

Or, buy all three items for a flat $300 ($10 discount), and I'll waive
shipping.

These are beautiful pieces, I hate to let them go, but my wife and I are
expecting a child soon, and I'm trying to raise some money.

Please contact me at adam...@hotmail.com

Paypal ONLY, to the above email address.

Thank you :-)

[RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

2013-12-10 Thread ascpgh

Very true about the set-up of the camping area. 

On a return from my friend's family's cabin outside of Creede, CO we had a 
run in with the bad. We had to clean up and get things back to the easy 
in status for the next visit, as we enjoyed when we pulled in from an 18 
hour drive at the beginning of the summer. We got on the road at three PM 
and by six knew we'd be worthless to drive any farther and pulled into the 
Cimarron Canyon State Park Campground to lay up for the night to start our 
drive well-rested. 

Once we had camp set up and were cooking the last of our food for dinner a 
ranger informed us the campsites were for day use only and we'd have to go 
to the other camping area to stay over night. No tolerance for our 
cooking meal, I had to dump it before his eyes as my friend broke down the 
tent, wadding it, sleeping bags, and pads into the back of the Trooper for 
our drive to the designated camping area which turned out to be amongst a 
bunch of parked-for-the-season coaches from Texas (nouveau fly fishing 
lodges) that all seemed to have generators running for AC and TV. Having 
spent the summer in a cabin, in a valley that incurs into and is surrounded 
on three sides by the Weminuche Wilderness Area, we were audibly unable to 
stay for the inability to sleep there. Knowing that ahead of time we would 
have just overnighted there by the cabin at Spar City and started when we 
woke, well-rested. 

Longest night of driving I have ever spent. Short shifts at the wheel 
exchanged whenever we could find someplace lit up selling coffee and gas. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:56:08 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 Great suggestion, Liesl. Saguaro, Joshua Tree, Mojeve, Death Valley, and 
 Channel Islands are on our list. Depending not he NP set up at the 
 campgrounds, they can be very quiet or obnoxiously loud. The trick is 
 discerning which it is before I get screwed up and need two days to 
 recover. Sardonic grin.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:24:55 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:

 Joshua Tree is really a spectacular place and the weather should be warm 
 enough at night (I think).  If you can haul water, the campground without 
 facilities is quiet in my experience.  Mostly rock climbers.  It is a place 
 that is good for the soul.  I camped there twice when I lived in SF; once 
 in November for Thanksgiving.  Friends had a 1 year old and it worked for a 
 few days.  Ranks tops on the list of memorable thanksgivings.  Night lows 
 then were low 30's, maybe high 20's.  Check it out.



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Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal Overnighter AKA S240 December 13 14th

The Portland Crew has a vested interest in an unbroken Coconut. You break
you fix, SoCal.

Six Million Dollar Coconut Bill


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Coconutbill evan.spa...@gmail.com wrote:

 It's hard to break a coconut.

  Looks like I'll be free for the other options.

 -Evan




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[RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

2013-12-10 Thread John M


Patrick,
 
Much of the southern New Mexico desert would still be chilly at night-- 
hovering around your 30 degree limit.  But, if the weather looks good, you 
might consider these places:

Aguirre Springs 
http://www.blm.gov/nm/st/en/prog/recreation/las_cruces/aguirre_spring_campground.htmlnear
 
Las Cruces on BLM land.
Lower Gila area on BLM 
land.http://www.blm.gov/nm/st/en/prog/recreation/las_cruces/gila_lower_box.html
City of Rocks State Park (NM) 
http://www.emnrd.state.nm.us/spd/CityofRocksActivities.htmlwith nearby 
Gila Forest and Faywood Hotsprings.
The Rodeo, NM or Portal, 
AZhttp://www.portalrodeo.com/friends-of-cave-creek-canyo.htmlarea on the east 
side of the Chiricahua mountains:


Further west in the warmer Sonoran desert there is the McDowell mountains 
regional park http://www.maricopa.gov/parks/mcdowell/.  Good biking and 
hiking there, although not very remote or undeveloped.



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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

I guess I took it as pretty tounge-in-cheek.  Spending as much time reading 
forums as I do, that are all way less civil than this one, I've probably 
forgotten how to be offended - though I can see how many would take it that 
way.  It's DEFINITELY generational, however - which, though I didn't say 
it, is what I thought was so interesting about it.   

I've always felt that Surly could never have even existed had it not been 
for Rivendell.   When they launched, the concept of a company focusing on 
building skinny-tubed, steel bikes with 1 headsets,  provisions for racks, 
and room for fat tires and fenders was pretty out there to most 
mainstream consumers.   Yet, for all this, they've thrived.And, partly, 
on the tails of bikes like the Long Haul Trucker which was a direct copy of 
the All Rounder.   Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it makes 
it more ironic that they produced this patch so shortly after Riv quoined 
and started marketing the whole Un-Racer thing.

What I find interesting though, is how two companies can be so eerlily 
*similar* - building no-nonsense bikes that work, are repairable, aren't 
going to go out of style, and don't require the newest ever-changing 
components - yet have such *different* marketplace personas.  Even 
though BOTH companies are actually developing thought-provoking and 
useful products (together, arguably changing the face of modern bike design 
more than all other companies combined), ONE of those companies is often 
considered retro-grouchy while the other is considered hip.

Clearly it pays to be offensive on some level, depending on who your 
market is.  I just like anything that reminds people not to take themselves 
too seriously. ;-)






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[RBW] Re: What is a mountain bike?



On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:16:08 PM UTC-7, Mojo wrote:

  Interesting the iamkeith found the Krampus to be nimble. 
  


 I actually haven't tried it.   This is just what others seem to be saying 
- like Eric, above.  (maybe this is what you meant, though) Like you, I'm 
still scratching my head trying to figure it out, and arm-chair speculating 
for fun as I daydream about my next bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal Overnighter AKA S240 December 13 14th

2013-12-10 Thread hsmitham

Christopher, as you well know the Coconuts warranty does not cover weird 
fissures. 
Please reference policy card.

We have ascertained that while travelling in a diplomatic capacity it 
appears the weird cycling community of Puddle Town have disturbed his 
gyroscopic balancing thus ill preparing theCoco for Southern California 
Public Works projects and traffic patterns. In the future when we lend our 
Coconut we ask that you *not* disturb his finely tuned stability systems.

~Hugh Coconut whirligig control engineer Smitham 


On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:04:00 PM UTC-8, Christopher Chen wrote:

 The Portland Crew has a vested interest in an unbroken Coconut. You break 
 you fix, SoCal.

 Six Million Dollar Coconut Bill


 On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Coconutbill evan@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 It's hard to break a coconut.

  Looks like I'll be free for the other options.

 -Evan


  

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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread Ryan

Well said
On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 3:07:26 PM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote: 

  I guess I took it as pretty tounge-in-cheek.  Spending as much time 
 reading forums as I do, that are all way less civil than this one, 
 I've probably forgotten how to be offended - though I can see how many 
 would take it that way.  It's DEFINITELY generational, however - which, 
 though I didn't say it, is what I thought was so interesting about it.   

 I've always felt that Surly could never have even existed had it not been 
 for Rivendell.   When they launched, the concept of a company focusing on 
 building skinny-tubed, steel bikes with 1 headsets,  provisions for racks, 
 and room for fat tires and fenders was pretty out there to most 
 mainstream consumers.   Yet, for all this, they've thrived.And, partly, 
 on the tails of bikes like the Long Haul Trucker which was a direct copy of 
 the All Rounder.   Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it makes 
 it more ironic that they produced this patch so shortly after Riv quoined 
 and started marketing the whole Un-Racer thing.

 What I find interesting though, is how two companies can be so eerlily 
 *similar* - building no-nonsense bikes that work, are repairable, aren't 
 going to go out of style, and don't require the newest ever-changing 
 components - yet have such *different* marketplace personas.  Even 
 though BOTH companies are actually developing thought-provoking and 
 useful products (together, arguably changing the face of modern bike design 
 more than all other companies combined), ONE of those companies is often 
 considered retro-grouchy while the other is considered hip.

 Clearly it pays to be offensive on some level, depending on who your 
 market is.  I just like anything that reminds people not to take themselves 
 too seriously. ;-)



  


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[RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

Exactly, Andy. It's that human-created adventure (most often bureaucracy 
created) that can leave me recovering for several days. I'd much rather 
feel well enough to ride or run. Trouble is, it's like avoiding gopher 
holes at a gallop. Sardonic grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:55:03 PM UTC-7, ascpgh wrote:

 Very true about the set-up of the camping area. 

 On a return from my friend's family's cabin outside of Creede, CO we had a 
 run in with the bad. We had to clean up and get things back to the easy 
 in status for the next visit, as we enjoyed when we pulled in from an 18 
 hour drive at the beginning of the summer. We got on the road at three PM 
 and by six knew we'd be worthless to drive any farther and pulled into the 
 Cimarron Canyon State Park Campground to lay up for the night to start our 
 drive well-rested. 

 Once we had camp set up and were cooking the last of our food for dinner a 
 ranger informed us the campsites were for day use only and we'd have to go 
 to the other camping area to stay over night. No tolerance for our 
 cooking meal, I had to dump it before his eyes as my friend broke down the 
 tent, wadding it, sleeping bags, and pads into the back of the Trooper for 
 our drive to the designated camping area which turned out to be amongst a 
 bunch of parked-for-the-season coaches from Texas (nouveau fly fishing 
 lodges) that all seemed to have generators running for AC and TV. Having 
 spent the summer in a cabin, in a valley that incurs into and is surrounded 
 on three sides by the Weminuche Wilderness Area, we were audibly unable to 
 stay for the inability to sleep there. Knowing that ahead of time we would 
 have just overnighted there by the cabin at Spar City and started when we 
 woke, well-rested. 

 Longest night of driving I have ever spent. Short shifts at the wheel 
 exchanged whenever we could find someplace lit up selling coffee and gas. 

 Andy Cheatham
 Pittsburgh 

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:56:08 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 Great suggestion, Liesl. Saguaro, Joshua Tree, Mojeve, Death Valley, and 
 Channel Islands are on our list. Depending not he NP set up at the 
 campgrounds, they can be very quiet or obnoxiously loud. The trick is 
 discerning which it is before I get screwed up and need two days to 
 recover. Sardonic grin.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:24:55 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:

 Joshua Tree is really a spectacular place and the weather should be warm 
 enough at night (I think).  If you can haul water, the campground without 
 facilities is quiet in my experience.  Mostly rock climbers.  It is a place 
 that is good for the soul.  I camped there twice when I lived in SF; once 
 in November for Thanksgiving.  Friends had a 1 year old and it worked for a 
 few days.  Ranks tops on the list of memorable thanksgivings.  Night lows 
 then were low 30's, maybe high 20's.  Check it out.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

2013-12-10 Thread Bill Gibson

For remote car camps, Cochise Stronghold, and Palm Canyon in the KOFA
wildlife refuge, Southern AZ.


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

 Exactly, Andy. It's that human-created adventure (most often bureaucracy
 created) that can leave me recovering for several days. I'd much rather
 feel well enough to ride or run. Trouble is, it's like avoiding gopher
 holes at a gallop. Sardonic grin.

 With abandon,
 Patrick


 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:55:03 PM UTC-7, ascpgh wrote:

 Very true about the set-up of the camping area.

 On a return from my friend's family's cabin outside of Creede, CO we had
 a run in with the bad. We had to clean up and get things back to the easy
 in status for the next visit, as we enjoyed when we pulled in from an 18
 hour drive at the beginning of the summer. We got on the road at three PM
 and by six knew we'd be worthless to drive any farther and pulled into the
 Cimarron Canyon State Park Campground to lay up for the night to start our
 drive well-rested.

 Once we had camp set up and were cooking the last of our food for dinner
 a ranger informed us the campsites were for day use only and we'd have to
 go to the other camping area to stay over night. No tolerance for our
 cooking meal, I had to dump it before his eyes as my friend broke down the
 tent, wadding it, sleeping bags, and pads into the back of the Trooper for
 our drive to the designated camping area which turned out to be amongst a
 bunch of parked-for-the-season coaches from Texas (nouveau fly fishing
 lodges) that all seemed to have generators running for AC and TV. Having
 spent the summer in a cabin, in a valley that incurs into and is surrounded
 on three sides by the Weminuche Wilderness Area, we were audibly unable to
 stay for the inability to sleep there. Knowing that ahead of time we would
 have just overnighted there by the cabin at Spar City and started when we
 woke, well-rested.

 Longest night of driving I have ever spent. Short shifts at the wheel
 exchanged whenever we could find someplace lit up selling coffee and gas.

 Andy Cheatham
 Pittsburgh

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:56:08 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 Great suggestion, Liesl. Saguaro, Joshua Tree, Mojeve, Death Valley, and
 Channel Islands are on our list. Depending not he NP set up at the
 campgrounds, they can be very quiet or obnoxiously loud. The trick is
 discerning which it is before I get screwed up and need two days to
 recover. Sardonic grin.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:24:55 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:

 Joshua Tree is really a spectacular place and the weather should be
 warm enough at night (I think).  If you can haul water, the campground
 without facilities is quiet in my experience.  Mostly rock climbers.  It is
 a place that is good for the soul.  I camped there twice when I lived in
 SF; once in November for Thanksgiving.  Friends had a 1 year old and it
 worked for a few days.  Ranks tops on the list of memorable thanksgivings.
 Night lows then were low 30's, maybe high 20's.  Check it out.

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-- 
Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA

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[RBW] Re: RBW Tea Drinkers must Try - maybe not OT

2013-12-10 Thread George Millwood

Taylors of Harrowgate Ntingwe Kwazulu Tea from South Africa via Yorkshire.  
The crème de le crème of all black teas. 'A fresh, brisk flavour and a 
bright liquor'

Daintree Tea from Queensland for that smoky camping flavour.

Billy Tea, which is a brand not just a method, for memories of a golden 
childhood in Canberra when it was a small country town and bicycling was a 
common means of transport.

George Millwood


  


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[RBW] Re: FS: Wool Jerseys / Wool Trainer

Email sent on Cinzano.

~pb


On Monday, November 18, 2013 8:04:00 AM UTC-8, Adam DeFayette wrote:

 I have 2 Woolistic Wool jersies for for sale, and 1 Woolistic Wool trainer.
  
 All are in perfect like-new condition, size medium.
  
 Links to each, here:

 *http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/wool-trainers/28-molteni-winter-trainer.html*http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/wool-trainers/28-molteni-winter-trainer.html

 - selling for $150
  

 http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/team-wool-jerseys/11-cinzano-wool-jersey.html 
 - 
 selling for $85
  

 http://www.vintagevelos.com/en/unique-wool-jerseys/38-italian-national-wool-jersey.html
  - 
 selling for $75
  
  
 Add $7.00 for shipping in the CONUS.
  
 Or, buy all three items for a flat $300 ($10 discount), and I'll waive 
 shipping.
  
 These are beautiful pieces, I hate to let them go, but my wife and I are 
 expecting a child soon, and I'm trying to raise some money.
  
  
 Please contact me at adam...@hotmail.com
  
 Paypal ONLY, to the above email address.
  
 Thank you :-)
  
  
  


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[RBW] Re: FS: Wool Jerseys / Wool Trainer

Email on medium Cinzano withdrawn, sorry.

~pb

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[RBW] Seriously deranged, no limits road bike riding

2013-12-10 Thread Tom Virgil

Road Bike Partyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhabgvIIXikfeature=youtu.be

There will be no more excuses or limits.

Tom

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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

there is just enough divisiveness being marketed in the images we're sold, 
it would be better to raise the commonalities rather than the differences

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 3:07:26 PM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote:

 I guess I took it as pretty tounge-in-cheek.  Spending as much time 
 reading forums as I do, that are all way less civil than this one, 
 I've probably forgotten how to be offended - though I can see how many 
 would take it that way.  It's DEFINITELY generational, however - which, 
 though I didn't say it, is what I thought was so interesting about it.   

 I've always felt that Surly could never have even existed had it not been 
 for Rivendell.   When they launched, the concept of a company focusing on 
 building skinny-tubed, steel bikes with 1 headsets,  provisions for racks, 
 and room for fat tires and fenders was pretty out there to most 
 mainstream consumers.   Yet, for all this, they've thrived.And, partly, 
 on the tails of bikes like the Long Haul Trucker which was a direct copy of 
 the All Rounder.   Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it makes 
 it more ironic that they produced this patch so shortly after Riv quoined 
 and started marketing the whole Un-Racer thing.

 What I find interesting though, is how two companies can be so eerlily 
 *similar* - building no-nonsense bikes that work, are repairable, aren't 
 going to go out of style, and don't require the newest ever-changing 
 components - yet have such *different* marketplace personas.  Even 
 though BOTH companies are actually developing thought-provoking and 
 useful products (together, arguably changing the face of modern bike design 
 more than all other companies combined), ONE of those companies is often 
 considered retro-grouchy while the other is considered hip.

 Clearly it pays to be offensive on some level, depending on who your 
 market is.  I just like anything that reminds people not to take themselves 
 too seriously. ;-)






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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

Divisiveness sucks! Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 3:36:46 PM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:

 there is just enough divisiveness being marketed in the images we're sold, 
 it would be better to raise the commonalities rather than the differences

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 3:07:26 PM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote:

 I guess I took it as pretty tounge-in-cheek.  Spending as much time 
 reading forums as I do, that are all way less civil than this one, 
 I've probably forgotten how to be offended - though I can see how many 
 would take it that way.  It's DEFINITELY generational, however - which, 
 though I didn't say it, is what I thought was so interesting about it.   

 I've always felt that Surly could never have even existed had it not been 
 for Rivendell.   When they launched, the concept of a company focusing on 
 building skinny-tubed, steel bikes with 1 headsets,  provisions for racks, 
 and room for fat tires and fenders was pretty out there to most 
 mainstream consumers.   Yet, for all this, they've thrived.And, partly, 
 on the tails of bikes like the Long Haul Trucker which was a direct copy of 
 the All Rounder.   Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it makes 
 it more ironic that they produced this patch so shortly after Riv quoined 
 and started marketing the whole Un-Racer thing.

 What I find interesting though, is how two companies can be so eerlily 
 *similar* - building no-nonsense bikes that work, are repairable, aren't 
 going to go out of style, and don't require the newest ever-changing 
 components - yet have such *different* marketplace personas.  Even 
 though BOTH companies are actually developing thought-provoking and 
 useful products (together, arguably changing the face of modern bike design 
 more than all other companies combined), ONE of those companies is often 
 considered retro-grouchy while the other is considered hip.

 Clearly it pays to be offensive on some level, depending on who your 
 market is.  I just like anything that reminds people not to take themselves 
 too seriously. ;-)






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Re: [RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread Alex Zeibot

Ron,
I agree with you….  It is the Mandela's philosophy; collectivism tends to
prevail by standing up for a common goal.


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote:

 there is just enough divisiveness being marketed in the images we're sold,
 it would be better to raise the commonalities rather than the differences


 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 3:07:26 PM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote:

 I guess I took it as pretty tounge-in-cheek.  Spending as much time
 reading forums as I do, that are all way less civil than this one,
 I've probably forgotten how to be offended - though I can see how many
 would take it that way.  It's DEFINITELY generational, however - which,
 though I didn't say it, is what I thought was so interesting about it.

 I've always felt that Surly could never have even existed had it not been
 for Rivendell.   When they launched, the concept of a company focusing on
 building skinny-tubed, steel bikes with 1 headsets,  provisions for racks,
 and room for fat tires and fenders was pretty out there to most
 mainstream consumers.   Yet, for all this, they've thrived.And, partly,
 on the tails of bikes like the Long Haul Trucker which was a direct copy of
 the All Rounder.   Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it makes
 it more ironic that they produced this patch so shortly after Riv quoined
 and started marketing the whole Un-Racer thing.

 What I find interesting though, is how two companies can be so eerlily
 *similar* - building no-nonsense bikes that work, are repairable, aren't
 going to go out of style, and don't require the newest ever-changing
 components - yet have such *different* marketplace personas.  Even
 though BOTH companies are actually developing thought-provoking and
 useful products (together, arguably changing the face of modern bike design
 more than all other companies combined), ONE of those companies is often
 considered retro-grouchy while the other is considered hip.

 Clearly it pays to be offensive on some level, depending on who your
 market is.  I just like anything that reminds people not to take themselves
 too seriously. ;-)




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[RBW] Re: Seriously deranged, no limits road bike riding

FWIW:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyn_Ashton

I'm comfortable with my excuses and my limits.  

:-)

~pb




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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread hsmitham

What Allen said it's Generational...but after reading Mr. Blanstons 
Bludgeon, excuse me Blog I thought what's the point? Duh marketing...hey I 
like what Surly does but this is just a ploy to sell bikes it's called 
Branding and using psychology understood and promulgated by Mr. Freud and 
implemented by Madison Ave for ever. And yes Rivendell uses Unracer to 
the same means they just do it nicer. What I find amusing about Surly is 
that they use anger against the racer establishment but also promote racing 
on a Surly in the same breath now that's frigging smart. Me personally I 
won't be buying this patch anytime soon really don't need to piss off 
anymore people on the road, now if there was a Cars Suck patch I might be 
coerced to wear that uh maybe not I want to live to ride another day. 

~Hugh Unracer Smitham

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
 do: 

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks


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[RBW] Re: Seriously deranged, no limits road bike riding

2013-12-10 Thread Tim



 Ho hum! That's no different than my daily commute on the Hunqa, only I'm 
 wearing wool, English rain jacket and splats!



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Re: [RBW] Re: What is a mountain bike?

Anne

If you decide to go belted, you'll take your new frame to the local 
framebuilder for a seatstay splitter installation?  Do you have a 
tradesperson in mind?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/7382444166_b76df60251_b.jpg


On Monday, December 9, 2013 5:30:11 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:

 I'm pulling the trigger on either a Krampus or an ECR, just as soon as 
 I decide which one and whether I'm going for a belt drive or a chain. 
 And I'm going to have a great time riding the new bike, whichever one 
 it is. 

 How would I choose the size? I test rode an XL Krampus, which was 
 clearly too big, but still (barely) ridable for me. Should I go for L 
 or M? 5'8, long torso. 

 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Eric Daume eric...@gmail.comjavascript: 
 wrote: 
  I demo'd a Krampus this weekend, and I didn't find any issues with the 
  slacker head angle--and this is coming from a guy that really enjoyed a 
  mountain bike with a 74* head angle. 
  
  
 http://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2013/12/global-fat-bike-day-and-krampus.html 
  
  My bike fund is in some danger... 
  
  Eric Daume 
  Dublin, OH 
  
  
  On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Montclair BobbyB 
  montcla...@gmail.comjavascript: 

  wrote: 
  
  I love what Surly is doing with the 29er+ bikes (Krampus / ECR), except 
  I'm not a big fan of the slightly slack headtube angle (69.5 degree)... 
  maybe Surly is concerned about toe overlap (with those gargantuan 
 tires)... 
  still I'd rather see a longer top tube than slack head angle... For 
  downhill, great... but for climbing, nimble maneuvering and certainly 
 for 
  touring I'd rather have something closer to 71/72. 
  
  But maybe that's just me... 
  
  On Sunday, December 8, 2013 6:40:54 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: 
  
  Not directly related to the Hunquapillar, but interesting in a 
  Rivendellianisticishianesquetic way or, at very least, 
  quasi-crypto-Rivendellian. Ish. And it's local, land of red 'n' green. 
  
  http://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/ 
  
  Patrick Moore, contemplating a lugged, more-rake fork from Chauncey 
 for 
  his Fargo in frigid ABQ, NM. 
  
  -- 
  RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED! 
  Certified Resume Writer 
  http://resumespecialties.com/index.html 
  patric...@resumespecialties.com 
  http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ 
  
  Albuquerque, NM 
  
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[RBW] Re: FS: Wool Jerseys / Wool Trainer

2013-12-10 Thread Adam DeFayette

Still for sale, that guy ^ was looking for a large. It's a medium!

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Riv Head Badge

2013-12-10 Thread Joe Bernard

You'll undoubtedly need to contact Riv for one, with proof you own the 
appropriate frame. Grant is *very* particular about his headbadges 
migrating to the wrong frame.

Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

On Monday, December 9, 2013 9:47:42 PM UTC-8, Alex Zeibot wrote:

 WTB Riv custom head badge.  Please contact me off the list. 
 Thank you,
 Alex



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Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal Overnighter AKA S240 December 13 14th

For crying out loud he isn't the Hubble Space Telescope. Nothing a ball
peen hammer and some nail polish can't fix.

Get well Coconutbill. And good luck. With those technicians, you're gonna
need it.

cc


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:47 PM, hsmitham hughsmit...@gmail.com wrote:

 Christopher, as you well know the Coconuts warranty does not cover weird 
 fissures.
 Please reference policy card.

 We have ascertained that while travelling in a diplomatic capacity it
 appears the weird cycling community of Puddle Town have disturbed his
 gyroscopic balancing thus ill preparing theCoco for Southern California
 Public Works projects and traffic patterns. In the future when we lend our
 Coconut we ask that you *not* disturb his finely tuned stability systems.

 ~Hugh Coconut whirligig control engineer Smitham


 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:04:00 PM UTC-8, Christopher Chen wrote:

 The Portland Crew has a vested interest in an unbroken Coconut. You break
 you fix, SoCal.

 Six Million Dollar Coconut Bill


 On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Coconutbill evan@gmail.com wrote:

 It's hard to break a coconut.

  Looks like I'll be free for the other options.

 -Evan




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[RBW] Pannier rattle

2013-12-10 Thread Paul Germain

Jan  others,


I never have had a problem with the upper attachments on my Ortlieb front  
back rollers, but the lower adjustable fingers always seemed to have play - 
enough to rattle a bit. I added electrical tape to these until they had enough 
to close the clearance. Rattle eliminated.


Paul Germain

'Midlothian, Va.



 Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net Dec 10 06:35AM -0800  

I've thought about ways to cure this rattle. Ideal would be if your rack 
tubes were so large in diameter that they _just_ fit inside the hooks. I 
tried to take up the extra space with rubber from cut-up inner tubes, but 
that didn't work. Perhaps you can find or make bushings that you could clip 
over the rack tubes. Something like slicing a plastic tube (for example, 
the barrel of a ball-point pen), then clipping it onto the rack.
 
You'd still get a little rattle from the lower attachment, unless that, 
too, is just the right size for your rack. It would take some 
trial-and-error, and I just didn't have the patience. I went back to my old 
Berthoud panniers that have a metal spring to tension the pannier, and the 
problem was solved. (Current Berthoud panniers use an easy-on/easy-off 
system that probably isn't any better than Ortlieb's.)
 
Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com
 

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[RBW] Re: Pannier rattle

2013-12-10 Thread Kevin Mulcahy

I wrap the rack with tape at the contact points. Seems to help a little. 

Kevin
Chicago, IL

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Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal Overnighter AKA S240 December 13 14th

No need to cry over spilled coconut milk. Ride barefoot. It eliminates the 
need for gyroscopic balancing, replacing it with proprioceptive spacial 
awareness.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:47:54 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote:

 Christopher, as you well know the Coconuts warranty does not cover weird 
 fissures. 
 Please reference policy card.

 We have ascertained that while travelling in a diplomatic capacity it 
 appears the weird cycling community of Puddle Town have disturbed his 
 gyroscopic balancing thus ill preparing theCoco for Southern California 
 Public Works projects and traffic patterns. In the future when we lend our 
 Coconut we ask that you *not* disturb his finely tuned stability systems.

 ~Hugh Coconut whirligig control engineer Smitham 


 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:04:00 PM UTC-8, Christopher Chen wrote:

 The Portland Crew has a vested interest in an unbroken Coconut. You break 
 you fix, SoCal.

 Six Million Dollar Coconut Bill


 On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Coconutbill evan@gmail.com wrote:

 It's hard to break a coconut.

  Looks like I'll be free for the other options.

 -Evan


  

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Re: [RBW] Re: What is a mountain bike?

2013-12-10 Thread Anne Paulson

No, I'm getting the bike from Cycle Monkey, 'cause they're experienced with
Rohloffs and belts, and they have people they work with.


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anne

 If you decide to go belted, you'll take your new frame to the local
 framebuilder for a seatstay splitter installation?  Do you have a
 tradesperson in mind?

 http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/7382444166_b76df60251_b.jpg


 On Monday, December 9, 2013 5:30:11 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:

 I'm pulling the trigger on either a Krampus or an ECR, just as soon as
 I decide which one and whether I'm going for a belt drive or a chain.
 And I'm going to have a great time riding the new bike, whichever one
 it is.

 How would I choose the size? I test rode an XL Krampus, which was
 clearly too big, but still (barely) ridable for me. Should I go for L
 or M? 5'8, long torso.

 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Eric Daume eric...@gmail.com wrote:
  I demo'd a Krampus this weekend, and I didn't find any issues with the
  slacker head angle--and this is coming from a guy that really enjoyed a
  mountain bike with a 74* head angle.
 
  http://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2013/12/global-fat-bike-
 day-and-krampus.html
 
  My bike fund is in some danger...
 
  Eric Daume
  Dublin, OH
 
 
  On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Montclair BobbyB montcla...@gmail.com

  wrote:
 
  I love what Surly is doing with the 29er+ bikes (Krampus / ECR),
 except
  I'm not a big fan of the slightly slack headtube angle (69.5
 degree)...
  maybe Surly is concerned about toe overlap (with those gargantuan
 tires)...
  still I'd rather see a longer top tube than slack head angle... For
  downhill, great... but for climbing, nimble maneuvering and certainly
 for
  touring I'd rather have something closer to 71/72.
 
  But maybe that's just me...
 
  On Sunday, December 8, 2013 6:40:54 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
 
  Not directly related to the Hunquapillar, but interesting in a
  Rivendellianisticishianesquetic way or, at very least,
  quasi-crypto-Rivendellian. Ish. And it's local, land of red 'n'
 green.
 
  http://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/
 
  Patrick Moore, contemplating a lugged, more-rake fork from Chauncey
 for
  his Fargo in frigid ABQ, NM.
 
  --
  RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!
  Certified Resume Writer
  http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
  patric...@resumespecialties.com
  http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
 
  Albuquerque, NM
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What is a mountain bike?

I'll love to see pictures when you do it.  

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 4:09:01 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:

 No, I'm getting the bike from Cycle Monkey, 'cause they're experienced 
 with Rohloffs and belts, and they have people they work with.


 On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Bill Lindsay tape...@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 Anne

 If you decide to go belted, you'll take your new frame to the local 
 framebuilder for a seatstay splitter installation?  Do you have a 
 tradesperson in mind?

  http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/7382444166_b76df60251_b.jpg


 On Monday, December 9, 2013 5:30:11 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:

 I'm pulling the trigger on either a Krampus or an ECR, just as soon as 
 I decide which one and whether I'm going for a belt drive or a chain. 
 And I'm going to have a great time riding the new bike, whichever one 
 it is. 

 How would I choose the size? I test rode an XL Krampus, which was 
 clearly too big, but still (barely) ridable for me. Should I go for L 
 or M? 5'8, long torso. 

 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Eric Daume eric...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I demo'd a Krampus this weekend, and I didn't find any issues with the 
  slacker head angle--and this is coming from a guy that really enjoyed 
 a 
  mountain bike with a 74* head angle. 
  
  http://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2013/12/global-fat-bike-
 day-and-krampus.html 
  
  My bike fund is in some danger... 
  
  Eric Daume 
  Dublin, OH 
  
  
  On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Montclair BobbyB montcla...@gmail.com 

  wrote: 
  
  I love what Surly is doing with the 29er+ bikes (Krampus / ECR), 
 except 
  I'm not a big fan of the slightly slack headtube angle (69.5 
 degree)... 
  maybe Surly is concerned about toe overlap (with those gargantuan 
 tires)... 
  still I'd rather see a longer top tube than slack head angle... For 
  downhill, great... but for climbing, nimble maneuvering and certainly 
 for 
  touring I'd rather have something closer to 71/72. 
  
  But maybe that's just me... 
  
  On Sunday, December 8, 2013 6:40:54 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: 
  
  Not directly related to the Hunquapillar, but interesting in a 
  Rivendellianisticishianesquetic way or, at very least, 
  quasi-crypto-Rivendellian. Ish. And it's local, land of red 'n' 
 green. 
  
  http://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/ 
  
  Patrick Moore, contemplating a lugged, more-rake fork from Chauncey 
 for 
  his Fargo in frigid ABQ, NM. 
  
  -- 
  RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED! 
  Certified Resume Writer 
  http://resumespecialties.com/index.html 
  patric...@resumespecialties.com 
  http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ 
  
  Albuquerque, NM 
  
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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

It's probably best to take the Racing Sucks patch as tongue-in-cheek. If 
you're offended by it, chalk it up to seasonal blues.

On the surface, Rivendell and Surly are on the same team, promoting 
smartly-designed steel bikes in a world where smartly-designed steel bikes 
aren't always popular. Both have brought some good ideas and products to 
the table. Both have a persona that reflect the personalities who run the 
respective companies. RBW plays the wholesome country bumpkin persona (with 
a generous helping of evocative nostalgia), while Surly plays up to the 
irreverent beer drinker but brilliant engineer persona. I've met Grant and 
I'm on friendly terms with several Surly characters. All good people. I bet 
they agree a lot more than they disagree, about bikes anyway. I've always 
found it humorous but weird that so many RBW devotees feel that there is a 
rivalry or semi-bitter philosophical divide between the two companies. It 
comes up again and again on this forum.


On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:04:06 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:

 What Allen said it's Generational...but after reading Mr. Blanstons 
 Bludgeon, excuse me Blog I thought what's the point? Duh marketing...hey I 
 like what Surly does but this is just a ploy to sell bikes it's called 
 Branding and using psychology understood and promulgated by Mr. Freud and 
 implemented by Madison Ave for ever. And yes Rivendell uses Unracer to 
 the same means they just do it nicer. What I find amusing about Surly is 
 that they use anger against the racer establishment but also promote racing 
 on a Surly in the same breath now that's frigging smart. Me personally I 
 won't be buying this patch anytime soon really don't need to piss off 
 anymore people on the road, now if there was a Cars Suck patch I might be 
 coerced to wear that uh maybe not I want to live to ride another day. 

 ~Hugh Unracer Smitham

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
 do: 

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks



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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

no offense, Jim, this about a stupid patch.  

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:15:51 PM UTC-6, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:

 It's probably best to take the Racing Sucks patch as tongue-in-cheek. If 
 you're offended by it, chalk it up to seasonal blues.

 On the surface, Rivendell and Surly are on the same team, promoting 
 smartly-designed steel bikes in a world where smartly-designed steel bikes 
 aren't always popular. Both have brought some good ideas and products to 
 the table. Both have a persona that reflect the personalities who run the 
 respective companies. RBW plays the wholesome country bumpkin persona (with 
 a generous helping of evocative nostalgia), while Surly plays up to the 
 irreverent beer drinker but brilliant engineer persona. I've met Grant and 
 I'm on friendly terms with several Surly characters. All good people. I bet 
 they agree a lot more than they disagree, about bikes anyway. I've always 
 found it humorous but weird that so many RBW devotees feel that there is a 
 rivalry or semi-bitter philosophical divide between the two companies. It 
 comes up again and again on this forum.


 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:04:06 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:

 What Allen said it's Generational...but after reading Mr. Blanstons 
 Bludgeon, excuse me Blog I thought what's the point? Duh marketing...hey I 
 like what Surly does but this is just a ploy to sell bikes it's called 
 Branding and using psychology understood and promulgated by Mr. Freud and 
 implemented by Madison Ave for ever. And yes Rivendell uses Unracer to 
 the same means they just do it nicer. What I find amusing about Surly is 
 that they use anger against the racer establishment but also promote racing 
 on a Surly in the same breath now that's frigging smart. Me personally I 
 won't be buying this patch anytime soon really don't need to piss off 
 anymore people on the road, now if there was a Cars Suck patch I might be 
 coerced to wear that uh maybe not I want to live to ride another 
 day. 

 ~Hugh Unracer Smitham

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
 do: 

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks



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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

Surly sometimes sends me little goodie boxes. The last one included various 
doodads and some calendars and a sticker that said bongs, farts, and 
chainsaws. Maybe that is Surly's answer to Bike, book, and hatchet?

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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

 I've always found it humorous but weird that so many RBW devotees feel 
that there is a rivalry or semi-bitter philosophical divide between the two 
companies. It comes up again and again on this forum.

So many?  I can't name one.  
Again and again?  I can't name once.  

I don't think Riv and Surly are rivals.  Who thinks that?

Bill who-is-contemplating-a-steamroller-build-around-700x38s Lindsay

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 4:15:51 PM UTC-8, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:

 It's probably best to take the Racing Sucks patch as tongue-in-cheek. If 
 you're offended by it, chalk it up to seasonal blues.

 On the surface, Rivendell and Surly are on the same team, promoting 
 smartly-designed steel bikes in a world where smartly-designed steel bikes 
 aren't always popular. Both have brought some good ideas and products to 
 the table. Both have a persona that reflect the personalities who run the 
 respective companies. RBW plays the wholesome country bumpkin persona (with 
 a generous helping of evocative nostalgia), while Surly plays up to the 
 irreverent beer drinker but brilliant engineer persona. I've met Grant and 
 I'm on friendly terms with several Surly characters. All good people. I bet 
 they agree a lot more than they disagree, about bikes anyway. I've always 
 found it humorous but weird that so many RBW devotees feel that there is a 
 rivalry or semi-bitter philosophical divide between the two companies. It 
 comes up again and again on this forum.


 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:04:06 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:

 What Allen said it's Generational...but after reading Mr. Blanstons 
 Bludgeon, excuse me Blog I thought what's the point? Duh marketing...hey I 
 like what Surly does but this is just a ploy to sell bikes it's called 
 Branding and using psychology understood and promulgated by Mr. Freud and 
 implemented by Madison Ave for ever. And yes Rivendell uses Unracer to 
 the same means they just do it nicer. What I find amusing about Surly is 
 that they use anger against the racer establishment but also promote racing 
 on a Surly in the same breath now that's frigging smart. Me personally I 
 won't be buying this patch anytime soon really don't need to piss off 
 anymore people on the road, now if there was a Cars Suck patch I might be 
 coerced to wear that uh maybe not I want to live to ride another 
 day. 

 ~Hugh Unracer Smitham

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
 do: 

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks



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Re: [RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread James Warren


I certainly don't read every post on this forum, but I haven't detected that 
posters feel there is a semi-bitter philosophical divide very often.

And changing the subject a bit, I've always detected appreciation of Surly from 
Riv people. Like this:


http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff13.htm




On Dec 10, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

 It's probably best to take the Racing Sucks patch as tongue-in-cheek. If 
 you're offended by it, chalk it up to seasonal blues.
 
 On the surface, Rivendell and Surly are on the same team, promoting 
 smartly-designed steel bikes in a world where smartly-designed steel bikes 
 aren't always popular. Both have brought some good ideas and products to the 
 table. Both have a persona that reflect the personalities who run the 
 respective companies. RBW plays the wholesome country bumpkin persona (with a 
 generous helping of evocative nostalgia), while Surly plays up to the 
 irreverent beer drinker but brilliant engineer persona. I've met Grant and 
 I'm on friendly terms with several Surly characters. All good people. I bet 
 they agree a lot more than they disagree, about bikes anyway. I've always 
 found it humorous but weird that so many RBW devotees feel that there is a 
 rivalry or semi-bitter philosophical divide between the two companies. It 
 comes up again and again on this forum.
 
 
 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:04:06 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:
 What Allen said it's Generational...but after reading Mr. Blanstons 
 Bludgeon, excuse me Blog I thought what's the point? Duh marketing...hey I 
 like what Surly does but this is just a ploy to sell bikes it's called 
 Branding and using psychology understood and promulgated by Mr. Freud and 
 implemented by Madison Ave for ever. And yes Rivendell uses Unracer to the 
 same means they just do it nicer. What I find amusing about Surly is that 
 they use anger against the racer establishment but also promote racing on a 
 Surly in the same breath now that's frigging smart. Me personally I won't be 
 buying this patch anytime soon really don't need to piss off anymore people 
 on the road, now if there was a Cars Suck patch I might be coerced to wear 
 that uh maybe not I want to live to ride another day. 
 
 ~Hugh Unracer Smitham
 
 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:
 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I do:
 
 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread James Warren


And don't forget, when Pugsley was new, it was nicely reviewed in the Rivendell 
Reader.



On Dec 10, 2013, at 4:54 PM, James Warren wrote:

 
 I certainly don't read every post on this forum, but I haven't detected that 
 posters feel there is a semi-bitter philosophical divide very often.
 
 And changing the subject a bit, I've always detected appreciation of Surly 
 from Riv people. Like this:
 
 
 http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff13.htm
 
 
 
 
 On Dec 10, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
 
 It's probably best to take the Racing Sucks patch as tongue-in-cheek. If 
 you're offended by it, chalk it up to seasonal blues.
 
 On the surface, Rivendell and Surly are on the same team, promoting 
 smartly-designed steel bikes in a world where smartly-designed steel bikes 
 aren't always popular. Both have brought some good ideas and products to the 
 table. Both have a persona that reflect the personalities who run the 
 respective companies. RBW plays the wholesome country bumpkin persona (with 
 a generous helping of evocative nostalgia), while Surly plays up to the 
 irreverent beer drinker but brilliant engineer persona. I've met Grant and 
 I'm on friendly terms with several Surly characters. All good people. I bet 
 they agree a lot more than they disagree, about bikes anyway. I've always 
 found it humorous but weird that so many RBW devotees feel that there is a 
 rivalry or semi-bitter philosophical divide between the two companies. It 
 comes up again and again on this forum.
 
 
 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:04:06 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:
 What Allen said it's Generational...but after reading Mr. Blanstons 
 Bludgeon, excuse me Blog I thought what's the point? Duh marketing...hey I 
 like what Surly does but this is just a ploy to sell bikes it's called 
 Branding and using psychology understood and promulgated by Mr. Freud and 
 implemented by Madison Ave for ever. And yes Rivendell uses Unracer to the 
 same means they just do it nicer. What I find amusing about Surly is that 
 they use anger against the racer establishment but also promote racing on a 
 Surly in the same breath now that's frigging smart. Me personally I won't be 
 buying this patch anytime soon really don't need to piss off anymore people 
 on the road, now if there was a Cars Suck patch I might be coerced to wear 
 that uh maybe not I want to live to ride another day. 
 
 ~Hugh Unracer Smitham
 
 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:
 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I do:
 
 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks
 
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 James Warren
 jimcwar...@earthlink.net
 
 - 700x55
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

Man now I want to try riding that Panasonic Rodeo.


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:54 PM, James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.netwrote:


 I certainly don't read every post on this forum, but I haven't detected
 that posters feel there is a semi-bitter philosophical divide very often.

 And changing the subject a bit, I've always detected appreciation of Surly
 from Riv people. Like this:


 http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff13.htm




 On Dec 10, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

 It's probably best to take the Racing Sucks patch as tongue-in-cheek. If
 you're offended by it, chalk it up to seasonal blues.

 On the surface, Rivendell and Surly are on the same team, promoting
 smartly-designed steel bikes in a world where smartly-designed steel bikes
 aren't always popular. Both have brought some good ideas and products to
 the table. Both have a persona that reflect the personalities who run the
 respective companies. RBW plays the wholesome country bumpkin persona (with
 a generous helping of evocative nostalgia), while Surly plays up to the
 irreverent beer drinker but brilliant engineer persona. I've met Grant and
 I'm on friendly terms with several Surly characters. All good people. I bet
 they agree a lot more than they disagree, about bikes anyway. I've always
 found it humorous but weird that so many RBW devotees feel that there is a
 rivalry or semi-bitter philosophical divide between the two companies. It
 comes up again and again on this forum.


 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:04:06 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:

 What Allen said it's Generational...but after reading Mr. Blanstons
 Bludgeon, excuse me Blog I thought what's the point? Duh marketing...hey I
 like what Surly does but this is just a ploy to sell bikes it's called
 Branding and using psychology understood and promulgated by Mr. Freud and
 implemented by Madison Ave for ever. And yes Rivendell uses Unracer to
 the same means they just do it nicer. What I find amusing about Surly is
 that they use anger against the racer establishment but also promote racing
 on a Surly in the same breath now that's frigging smart. Me personally I
 won't be buying this patch anytime soon really don't need to piss off
 anymore people on the road, now if there was a Cars Suck patch I might be
 coerced to wear that uh maybe not I want to live to ride another
 day.

 ~Hugh Unracer Smitham

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:36:41 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I
 do:

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks


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 jimcwar...@earthlink.net

 - 700x55





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-- 
I want the kind of six pack you can't drink. -- Micah

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[RBW] Re: Just Got Our English Riding Jackets

2013-12-10 Thread Jim M.

Heartfelt congratulations on your marriage! The jacket will look great with 
your new bike. I hope we get a chance to see it here in Walnut Creek.

jim m
wc ca

On Monday, December 9, 2013 9:31:45 AM UTC-8, Liesl wrote:


 Hey Roger, thanks for the congrat's.  The Warhorse is still a filly so 
 she's got a little ways to go—hopefully in Colorado with the builder!


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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

2013-12-10 Thread ascpgh

For me, bike racing was not the thing in which to compete. I did my due 
diligence in my competitive discipline, I know the sacrifices, I can share 
and relate with others about the *depravities we have in common. Bike 
racers know nothing of the cycling I undertake nor are they prepared to 
follow me as I am not them.*

*Cycling had always been my refuge from the all-in necessity of competition 
as I had been trained for it. Then the sign-sprint toads started showing up 
on my mountain bike rides and I had to veer into more odd cycling pursuits 
than they were interested. Anyone who knows the rearrangement one's life 
must undertake in order to truly be competitive in their personal pursuit 
knows well enough that anything below that level is a joke and a situation 
begging for someone to get hurt. I just would like to ride my bike, be it 
my Rivendell or my Surly; font on the down tube **independent.*

*Andy Cheatham*

*Pittsburgh*
 

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:36:41 AM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
 do: 

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks


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[RBW] Re: Seriously deranged, no limits road bike riding

2013-12-10 Thread dougP

I don't think that's quite what GP's talking about when he speaks of 
versatility.  

dougP

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:23:58 PM UTC-8, Tom Virgil wrote:

 Road Bike Partyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhabgvIIXikfeature=youtu.be

 There will be no more excuses or limits.

 Tom


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[RBW] Re: Car and Bikepacking Ideas for January-February

2013-12-10 Thread dougP

Deacon:

Santa Cruz Island is the most accessible of the Channel Islands.  It's 
wonderful hiking  has nice camping facilities.  Transport is via a fairly 
large (IIRC around 70') boat from Ventura.  Takes about an hour.  It's a 
big marine diesel that you will notice, especially if you are sensitive.  
Not the banging  crashing of construction equipment but noisier than say a 
Washington State ferry boat.  The SB Channel can also get a swell running, 
especially in winter, if anyone in your family gets motion sick.  Not 
trying to discourage you as I love Santa Cruz and encourage people to 
visit, but you want to go with full knowledge.  

dougP

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:56:08 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 Great suggestion, Liesl. Saguaro, Joshua Tree, Mojeve, Death Valley, and 
 Channel Islands are on our list. Depending not he NP set up at the 
 campgrounds, they can be very quiet or obnoxiously loud. The trick is 
 discerning which it is before I get screwed up and need two days to 
 recover. Sardonic grin.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:24:55 AM UTC-7, Liesl wrote:

 Joshua Tree is really a spectacular place and the weather should be warm 
 enough at night (I think).  If you can haul water, the campground without 
 facilities is quiet in my experience.  Mostly rock climbers.  It is a place 
 that is good for the soul.  I camped there twice when I lived in SF; once 
 in November for Thanksgiving.  Friends had a 1 year old and it worked for a 
 few days.  Ranks tops on the list of memorable thanksgivings.  Night lows 
 then were low 30's, maybe high 20's.  Check it out.



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[RBW] Re: Seriously deranged, no limits road bike riding

2013-12-10 Thread rcnute

I want to see the blooper reel.

Ryan

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:23:58 PM UTC-8, Tom Virgil wrote:

 Road Bike Partyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhabgvIIXikfeature=youtu.be

 There will be no more excuses or limits.

 Tom


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[RBW] Re: Seriously deranged, no limits road bike riding

One can only imagine what Ernesto Colnago would think watching that 
video... 

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:23:58 PM UTC-5, Tom Virgil wrote:

 Road Bike Partyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhabgvIIXikfeature=youtu.be

 There will be no more excuses or limits.

 Tom


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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks

here's what I like about Just Ride.  It describes that racing is not the 
end to the means.  That the means count for themselves.  I'll never be able 
to forget the sight of a 300+-lb guy in lycra torturing himself over a long 
threadless stem - the effort was just maintaining the position - he was 
going very slow on flat land.  He looked up longingly as I pedaled the 
other way, moving quickly, mostly upright in my moustache cockpit and baggy 
pants.  He was a very round peg in a divaricate hole.  I really hope he 
sticks with the riding, but somebody sold him something that they would 
want to ride themselves and thought he should want the same.  This may be 
an actual case of racing sucks, and I guess if the guys buying and selling 
bicycles get it, then it may accomplish something positive.  Obviously 
Surly, along with every other steel frame maker, is building something that 
we can relate to, if not aspire to.   Unracer - I think it's a weird word, 
and it's not one I'm going to wear on my togs or bike luggage, but I 
understand it.  A racing sucks patch?  I don't see a place for it other 
than offending your racing buddies, just as the author states as its 
purpose - I don't have a place for that.  

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:29:56 PM UTC-6, ascpgh wrote:

 For me, bike racing was not the thing in which to compete. I did my due 
 diligence in my competitive discipline, I know the sacrifices, I can share 
 and relate with others about the *depravities we have in common. Bike 
 racers know nothing of the cycling I undertake nor are they prepared to 
 follow me as I am not them.*

 *Cycling had always been my refuge from the all-in necessity of 
 competition as I had been trained for it. Then the sign-sprint toads 
 started showing up on my mountain bike rides and I had to veer into more 
 odd cycling pursuits than they were interested. Anyone who knows the 
 rearrangement one's life must undertake in order to truly be competitive in 
 their personal pursuit knows well enough that anything below that level is 
 a joke and a situation begging for someone to get hurt. I just would like 
 to ride my bike, be it my Rivendell or my Surly; font on the down tube *
 *independent.*

 *Andy Cheatham*

 *Pittsburgh*
  

 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:36:41 AM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:

 Thought many of you fellow un-racers might appreciate this  as much as I 
 do: 

 http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/racing_sucks



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[RBW] Re: Racing Sucks