Re: [RBW] Anyone using a RBW Nitto Basket Rack on a Clem H?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Joe: disagree! 藍

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 9:21:38 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I've already reported my disdain for basket loads on Clems, but the short 
> version is bo!!! Rivbikes aren't designed for it (in spite of all the 
> ones they build that way) and I think it should be used soley for a light 
> jacket and a couple pieces of fruit from the store. 5 pounds maybe, 10 is 
> too much. The rest goes in back. 
>
> PS. Our Leah Bicycle Belle will see this and vehemently disagree with me. 
> You decide!
>

 

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[RBW] Geo Question

[Hugh Smitham]

Also thanks for that website Eric

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[RBW] Geo Question

[Richard Rios]

Hey Hugh,

Hope all is good. Just as a general observation I find adding the degree by 
which the top tube upslopes to the seat tube length gets ya pretty close. Not 
sure why Riv hasn't gone to sizing by stack rather than seat tube. I think the 
stack gives a better idea of how the bike will really fit. Man I miss my 56 Sam 
Hillborne with around 62 stack height. Bars got up there nice and comfy without 
a ton of stem sticking out. Any way maybe it's just so people can handle a 
smaller larger size. What, I ride a 52 Clem that's so big. If ya tell someone 
it fits kinda like a 58/9 勞. 

Best,
Richard

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[RBW] Geo Question

[Hugh Smitham]

Thanks Eric.

I didn't think the stack was that much.

Hugh

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Re: [RBW] Anyone using a RBW Nitto Basket Rack on a Clem H?

[Joe Bernard]

I've already reported my disdain for basket loads on Clems, but the short 
version is bo!!! Rivbikes aren't designed for it (in spite of all the ones 
they build that way) and I think it should be used soley for a light jacket and 
a couple pieces of fruit from the store. 5 pounds maybe, 10 is too much. The 
rest goes in back. 

PS. Our Leah Bicycle Belle will see this and vehemently disagree with me. You 
decide! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

I had a bronzey green Clem. If Leah thinks the blue shimmers like the sun is 
pouring throught it, wait til she sees THAT! 

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[RBW] Geo Question

[Eric G]

609.5 per bikeinsights.com

https://bikeinsights.com/bike-geometries/5cedbc58663b2d0017aa071d-rivendell-a-homer-hilsen-2019-mit-58

Eric 

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[RBW] Geo Question

[Hugh Smitham]

Anyone know the stack height on a Riv 58cm A.H.H?

TIA,

Hugh

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[RBW] Re: Tires

[tc]

Hey Carla,
I've have a set of Jon Bon Pass ELs (35mm) on my Roadini ...Awesome, light, 
quiet, grippy, no flats ... and very cushy, zippy.  Like they're not 
there.  I have about 500 mi on them.  Highly recommend.

I have a set of Snoqualmie Pass (44mm) standard casing tires on my wife's 
58 Sam, on my 62 Sam, and now on my 59 Clem (on the Clem, replacing 2.25 
Schwalbe G-One Speeds (also nice), so I can fender it).  Awesome, really 
cushy, no flats.  I had almost gotten used to how velvet smooth they are; 
then my wife rode them the first time (after the stock Kendas - yuck) -- 
and she was amazed at the difference in comfort.

The 'basketball tire' (Continental Sport Contact II) that Riv sells is 
actually a very nice tire for the money.  I had them on my SimpleOne for a 
while.  If that's your price range, I'd go for it.

Tom

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Re: [RBW] Anyone using a RBW Nitto Basket Rack on a Clem H?

[tc]

David, 
I didn't have a basket on the rear.  I use the Banjo Brothers Market 
Panniers 
,
 
which are well-made, light, attach/detach quickly, relatively inexpensive, 
and ride low.

Tom

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires

[Steve Palincsar]

If it was "a bill of goods" we'd all be experiencing problems, and 
that's just not so.


On 1/10/20 10:03 PM, 'Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

I'm just glad someone finally used the words "fragile" and "Compass" in the same 
sentence. I think Jan has really sold folks a bill of goods. (And I know many on here swear by them. Hello to 
the Patricks!) I've never had a sidewall cut in any other tire, ever, although I've always carried a boot, 
just in case. Counting the sidewall cut on a BRAND NEW (so much for calling them "event tires") 
Stampede Pass that caused my DNF at PBP, after 1000km, in 2015 (which couldn't be held by a boot, or a dollar 
bill, leading to 7 flats over 50km, and I think it was Theo, from Compass who replied to my complaint that, 
yes, it's true that boots don't work well on those tires) I've thrown away three straight Compass rear tires 
before they had even 1500 miles on them. Each one had a sidewall cut, although I very consciously changed the 
way I rode to ensure I didn't drop off a curb or approach anything at an angle to avoid rubbing the sidewall, 
even in the slightest. Quite frankly, I will never buy another thing from Compass/Rene Herse. Sorry, but I've 
needed to get that off my chest for a long time. We now return to your regulary scheduled programming.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Tires

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm just glad someone finally used the words "fragile" and "Compass" in the 
same sentence. I think Jan has really sold folks a bill of goods. (And I know 
many on here swear by them. Hello to the Patricks!) I've never had a sidewall 
cut in any other tire, ever, although I've always carried a boot, just in case. 
Counting the sidewall cut on a BRAND NEW (so much for calling them "event 
tires") Stampede Pass that caused my DNF at PBP, after 1000km, in 2015 (which 
couldn't be held by a boot, or a dollar bill, leading to 7 flats over 50km, and 
I think it was Theo, from Compass who replied to my complaint that, yes, it's 
true that boots don't work well on those tires) I've thrown away three straight 
Compass rear tires before the tread even began to show wear. Each one had a 
sidewall cut, although I very consciously changed the way I rode to ensure I 
didn't drop off a curb or approach anything at an angle to avoid rubbing the 
sidewall, even in the slightest. Quite frankly, I will never buy another thing 
from Compass/Rene Herse. Sorry, but I've needed to get that off my chest for a 
long time. We now return to your regulary scheduled programming.

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[RBW] Re: Tires

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm just glad someone finally used the words "fragile" and "Compass" in the 
same sentence. I think Jan has really sold folks a bill of goods. (And I know 
many on here swear by them. Hello to the Patricks!) I've never had a sidewall 
cut in any other tire, ever, although I've always carried a boot, just in case. 
Counting the sidewall cut on a BRAND NEW (so much for calling them "event 
tires") Stampede Pass that caused my DNF at PBP, after 1000km, in 2015 (which 
couldn't be held by a boot, or a dollar bill, leading to 7 flats over 50km, and 
I think it was Theo, from Compass who replied to my complaint that, yes, it's 
true that boots don't work well on those tires) I've thrown away three straight 
Compass rear tires before they had even 1500 miles on them. Each one had a 
sidewall cut, although I very consciously changed the way I rode to ensure I 
didn't drop off a curb or approach anything at an angle to avoid rubbing the 
sidewall, even in the slightest. Quite frankly, I will never buy another thing 
from Compass/Rene Herse. Sorry, but I've needed to get that off my chest for a 
long time. We now return to your regulary scheduled programming. 

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Re: [RBW] Anyone using a RBW Nitto Basket Rack on a Clem H?

[David Bivins]

>
> Tom:

I have used the Nitto big (rear) rack on my Toyo Atlantis and have hauled
> 30 lbs of groceries like it wasnt’t there.

Makes sense. I've carried more pounds than that in books in my rear
panniers on my Civia; but in panniers.

> I don’t know if it’s aesthetics or what, but people seem to want to carry
> heavy stuff up front. I don’t know why.

Because I got sick of kicking stuff off my rear basket when mounting my
bike. Also it's nice to throw stuff in the front basket. My load wasn't all
that heavy.

> Carry heavy stuff on rear racks, and most Rivs designed to carry some
> amount of load will be very happy!

I'm sure you're right. Just trying something new.


> DRW:

I’d guess that there’s an element of forgetting what front loads do,

Yes, I'm getting resigned to that.

> but also I’ve found the nitto racks with all the adjustable strut parts to
> be pretty wiggly.

This is also true, in that I've had to adjust and tighten them several
times, but they're still wiggly, which makes sense given a couple of points
of articulation.

>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Mark Roland]

Yes. In fact the business I work for makes color matching booths used by 
manufacturers to check color under various light qualities. The 
greeny-bronze is amazing in person. It can go from a classic three-speed 
green to a more bronzey green to that almost yellow lime green in the sun.

I'm glad you seem to be getting in sync with the 2019 version of the 
Clementine. Sunday is supposed to be rainy here, so maybe I'll do a little 
wheel building and some wrenching with my little guy. I would like to get 
mine on the road in the next month or so.

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 2:39:05 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Can you believe that brown Clem is same color as your green Clem? It’s 
> really a cool effect.
>
> As of right now, I’m pretty happy with my Clem. I went out again last 
> night, and after one final saddle adjustment, I think I’ve got my Clem 
> pretty well dialed. I had a very happy commute with my sons this morning, 
> and I am now deciding the bike is perfect. I am excited to know what the 
> new Cheviot is going to be like. Hopefully a little shorter and lighter. 
> Whatever it is, I’m sure we’ll be discussing it...
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 9, 2020, at 7:34 PM, Mark Roland  > wrote:
>
> 
> caution, rambling reply ahead, thoughts I've had that were triggered by 
> this thread. Don't Thread On Me.
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020  Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
> *Mark Roland - you might be our best hope here. When your 2019 52 Clem L 
> is built, you’ll have it to compare to the 2015 OC. Also, what is taking so 
> long? How can you treat us this way? We need answers. MY CLOTHES ARE GOING 
> OUT OF STYLE OVER HERE MARK HURRY UP. *
>
> First of all, we know your clothes won't go out of style because we can 
> see your photos of you and Betz from what, 7 years ago? Perfectly stylish 
> as of 3 minutes ago. And while I appreciate the confidence, I don't think 
> my experience will directly translate to help you figure this out. And 
> sorry, but you are now a more experienced cyclist than 98.7 percent of all 
> U.S. citizens. More Americans probably know where Iran is on a map (about 
> 28 percent) than know where a chainstay is on a bicycle. At this point your 
> observations are completely valid and certainly as useful as mine--much 
> more so of course to your particulars. You've trusted them and they've 
> gotten you here, a good place to be! 
>
> Also, I'm not all that good at this bike vs. that bike, for several 
> reasons.
>
> The main one is, I've only ridden a few bikes that I just could not like, 
> or judge better or worse than the next. Part of this is having a feel for 
> what will work beforehand, but part of it is that I am more of the idea 
> that, as the software part of the equation, it's kinda our job, assuming 
> proportions not way out of the means, to fit the hardware.
>
> Yes, there are slack bikes, and tight bikes, heavier bikes, lighter, 
> planing bikes, bikes that track and bikes that twitch, bikes with long 
> stays and bikes with short stays, bikes with high trail and bikes with low. 
> But all these parameters are actually within a fairly narrow range as well, 
> and all add up to Bicycle. Sure, I notice differences among my bicycles, 
> even ones that are kinda close on paper. And as some have mentioned, I like 
> the one I am on best. But I'm genuinely happy on any of them, and I suspect 
> I'll be happy on my Clem L. Especially because it will look so pretty (I'm 
> very superficial about my bicycles.)
>
> I don't say all this in some kind of deep zen way, just as a fact about me 
> and bikes. I get that others are more particular, that's cool. As I said in 
> an earlier post on this thread, I did not have a problem with the handling 
> on my Big Dummy, which had 80+cm chainstays. I did park it in the hall 
> downstairs, as at the time i owned it, I was living in a 3-story walk-up 
> with the last flight being very very narrow and steep.
>
> 
>
> 
>
> Big Dummy with Original Clementine
>
> Grant is a bicycle designer. His job is to design bicycles. The designs go 
> in a certain direction based on his riding, his ideas of what bikes are and 
> what they can be, etc. He sells them to people who know about them. I am 
> sure he is just fine knowing that people ride non-Rivendell bicycles with 
> "short"  chainstays. Also, to make money, you need to have differentiation. 
> And as consumers, in product areas where we have more than a passing 
> interest, we like to have opinions, and preferences, and sometimes whole 
> philosophies regarding various stuff. I like mostly old bikes, rim brakes, 
> leather saddles, wide tires, steel.  (All of these things, by the way, kept 
> alive and actively promoted by Rivendell, even when it wasn't "cool.")
>
> As far as 54.5cm vs. 52cm chainstays. If there were no bicycles in the 
> world, and then suddenly everyone in the world was issued a Clem L that fit 
> them, and half got chainstays an inch 

[RBW] Anyone using a RBW Nitto Basket Rack on a Clem H?

[Drw]

I’d guess that there’s an element of forgetting what front loads do, but also 
I’ve found the nitto racks with all the adjustable strut parts to be pretty 
wiggly. I imagine many will dispute this but the racks with the round strut 
clamp thing move around too much for me (marks, r-14 etc.). I was very excited 
for the basket rack but didn’t pull the trigger because Of the lower mounts 
using struts and those  strut to rack connectors. 

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[RBW] Velocity Quill experiences?

[tc]

Thanks to those who replied!  The height of the Wuill maybe be a negative 
factor; have to check. All else seems great. 

Tom

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[RBW] Anyone using a RBW Nitto Basket Rack on a Clem H?

[tc]

I have used the Nitto big (rear) rack on my Toyo Atlantis and have hauled 30 
lbs of groceries like it wasnt’t there. I don’t know if it’s aesthetics or 
what, but people seem to want to carry heavy stuff up front. I don’t know why. 
Carry heavy stuff on rear racks, and most Rivs designed to carry some amount of 
load will be very happy!

Tom

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[RBW] Anyone using a RBW Nitto Basket Rack on a Clem H?

[David Bivins]

Hey all,

I got this rack for my Clem H and installed it and put one of the large
Wald baskets on top. I'm frankly surprised at how wobbly it makes me with
not too much weight in it. Last night I overbought at Whole Foods (they
have Topo Chico by the case), so I had a pannier on the back with a case of
mineral water crushing a couple of six-packs beneath it, and I had a heavy
bottle of kombucha, along with some lighter groceries in a sack in the
front basket. I felt lucky to make it home. The road is all messed up on
the route (dug up and repatched repeatedly over several years), but the
front wobbliness was extreme. I can't have possibly had anywhere near 20
lbs in it - I know that's just a potential weight limit and not a wobbly
limit.

Maybe I'm just forgetting how much a front basket influences handling. I
did get one of those spring guides for my front wheel when I had my last
bike, especially because I was often loading it with a kid and didn't want
any surprises.

(For Brooklyn members, this was riding from the Brooklyn WF at 3rd and 3rd,
up Third Ave to St Marks Pl.)

Just wondering if anyone's having a similar experience or if I need to
rethink putting my basket back on the back.

Take care,

David B in Brooklyn

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[RBW] Re: FS: Closet purge! Filson Barbour Woolrich Holubar Rockmount Pendleton Giro Shimano...

['jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Lake shoes pending...

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[tc]

Bill, since you've put mileage on both a Rodeo and Roadini, what 
significant differences in handling, comfort, and feel would you list?

Thanks,
Tom

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 10:20:46 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> When I got my Nobilette Legolas, I asked myself "why don't they have Nobi 
> build the Roadeo also?"  I don't think Waterford has historically treated 
> Rivendell all that well, and I try to avoid Waterford Rivendells for that 
> reason, purely spite.  I'll seriously think about upgrading my Waterford 
> Roadeo to a Nobilette Roadeo.  Let me know if you are dying for a 59.  I'd 
> pay $1000 for the karma upgrade, so $1800 shipped for my Waterford Roadeo 
> frame fork and chris king headset.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:
>>
>> Hey, Y'all:
>>
>> Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. 
>> So there ya go!
>>
>> All good, right?
>>
>> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

Someone's been reading this thread 

https://www.rivbike.com/products/long-chain

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, but I'm not explaining why it would still make sense if they say it, I'm 
explaining that it's an old theory which doesn't hold up well anymore. Even if 
they still say it. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Mark Roland]

Yes, but on the other hand, both Will and Grant steered me toward a 59 Clem 
L. I am 5'10 (or at least I was a while back). They did not insist and 
immediately dropped it when I described my preference, but that was the 
predisposition. I believe my proportions are similar to Grant's and he 
rides a 59 in both Clem and Cheviot. And I was slightly tempted, but due to 
apartment living, and not loving 700c wheels much above 40mm, I went with, 
and stuck with the 52.

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 4:03:18 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Who likes wrenches? I do, so I shall throw one in the conversation! Y'all 
> are correct that "get the biggest frame you can fit" was/is a Riv mantra 
> about getting your bars up high where they belong, but it originated during 
> the early days when Rivs still had mostly-level toptubes and sourcing tall 
> quill stems was still in its infancy. This was also a time when drops and 
> Moustache Bars were being spec'd on a lot of their frames. 
>
> Today all-but-Roadeo have upsloping TTs, crazy-tall headtubes and usually 
> show up at your door with a tall bar on a tall stem. I can ride a 52cm Clem 
> well enough, but my 45cm version with HiRiser stem and Boscos has all the 
> bar height I can stand. So there ya go. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires

[Adam Leibow]

i've had great luck with Compass / Rene Herse standard casing tires- not 
quite as fragile as EL's and still very supple/fast. i have the snoqualmie 
pass on my sam and the antelope hill on my clem L. very spoiled. honorable 
mentions for other tires= WTB, Schwalbe as obvious choices. The schwalbe g 
one all around are supple like compass but have knobs for some bite off 
road. would recommend. 

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 12:43:23 PM UTC-8, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
> In the winter I run narrower tires because of fenders and I'm currently 
> using Jack Brown Blue. I really like Compass tires and have not tried the 
> Compass tires in the same width. I ride mixed surfaces but mostly pavement. 
> If you have what did you think and which model?

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[RBW] Re: Tires

[Garth]

  Forte Metro ST 700 x 35 tires , from Performance/Nashbar online.   I run 
them at 35-40 psi and they ride real nice. The cost about $14 each I 
believe. "You get what you pay for" in this case doesn't apply. you get 
a whole lot more.  They have an error in their listing with weight listed 
@725g, it's supposed to list be 425g as that's what they weigh.   

They ride great  . how's that for depth and breadth of descriptions ?  
Woo-hoo !!!  

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Re: [RBW] FS Medium Olive Sackville Saddlesack

[John Rinker]

Thanks Tom. Let me know. Cheers. 

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Garth]

I see , thank you ! 

Apparently the email arrive in their own time. 

The Rodeo looks just like a Rodeo  ;-)

-

As to the bit about the "secret menu",  I always considered any mainstream 
production model Riv made as available as a custom, as it's not as if the 
know-how is lost, forgotten or forbidden  .  Just ask !  Since it's a 
custom that also means if there was some detail that wasn't on the original 
that you'd wish it had, and it was "in line" with the Riv sensibilities, 
it's likely a yeah. Pretty great ! 

I love my parallel TT  Bombadil . I've not ridden since the last warm spell 
a few weeks ago so I went for a jaunt between the rain bands around the 
driveway and then up and down a few streets to stretch my legs, so to 
speak, and it was Grand !   All this talk about long chainstays and 
wheelbases reminded me how at the time it was longest production frame in 
both that Riv had ever made. 



On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 8:17:56 AM UTC-5, jtallman wrote:
>
> Garth,
>
> From an email received 1-9-20
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

Who likes wrenches? I do, so I shall throw one in the conversation! Y'all are 
correct that "get the biggest frame you can fit" was/is a Riv mantra about 
getting your bars up high where they belong, but it originated during the early 
days when Rivs still had mostly-level toptubes and sourcing tall quill stems 
was still in its infancy. This was also a time when drops and Moustache Bars 
were being spec'd on a lot of their frames. 

Today all-but-Roadeo have upsloping TTs, crazy-tall headtubes and usually show 
up at your door with a tall bar on a tall stem. I can ride a 52cm Clem well 
enough, but my 45cm version with HiRiser stem and Boscos has all the bar height 
I can stand. So there ya go. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

All Rivs that I have ridden have feel extremely nimble to shifts in weight
for steering.  If you like bikes that are really sensitive to steering
input, then there is a huge variation in this sensitivity across Rivs.  The
Roadeo is steers beautifully--not twitchy in the least.  The steering
carves turns, almost like skiing carves turns downhill.  My wife's Betty
Foy, on the other hand, is very insensitive to steering input (but again,
very sensitive to weight shifts).  If I had coaster brakes (and single
speed or downtube shifters) on the Betty, then I am confident that I could
spin my front wheel in circles and stay upright without a problem.  On the
other spectrum, I had a Marinoni road bike, and as you turn the handlebar,
the bike literally falls over, so it is very sensitive to steering and the
vigilance required made it tiring for long rides.

What does this have to do with chainstay length?  Well, whether you like
longer chainstays or not may depend in part, on your turning technique.
The more you rely on steering as opposed to weight shifts, the more likely
you are to dislike the longer chainstays, because the bike will more stably
track in the direction the bike is moving with longer stays and you need
that weight shift to alter direction.

With that said, however, the longer stays feel just as nimble (to weight
shifts and turning) as the shorter ones and much more stable, so I can't be
happier than I am about it (with my style of turning).

People thought that longer stays would inhibit the ability to navigate on
mountain dirt switchbacks, but the legend says that Keven, who originally
advocated for these longer stays, could bomb down switchbacks faster than
anyone else could, and he could do it much more easily with the longer
stays...

Toshi

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Mike Godwin]

I may have to claw it back. But then you could get a 62 Roadeo

Mike SLO CA

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 4:06:50 AM UTC-8, John G. wrote:

> Is this a sign that I should sell my 61 cm Roadeo so that I can get a 63 
> cm Roadeo? Or is it a sign that I need TWO Roadeos? 
>
> Also: Bombadils are still an option? Anyone know what a Bomba costs? I 
> have all the parts I’d need to build one up...

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[masmojo]

I think part of my comment earlier about Leah (or anybody really) liking a bike 
if they have no point of reference,  stemmed not only from Leah's experience,  
but my own as well. I got way too many bikes and many times what happens is 
there are a good many that won't be ridden for several months. So I'll break 
out the pump, air up the tires and go for a ride!

Then depending on how similar that bike is to whatever I've been riding most 
recently, I'll either think "Wow, this is so great" OR " Wow, this feels weird"

But, 5 miles down the road invariably I'm thinking "this bike is so cool, why 
don't I ride it more?" Of course the answer is the newest bike gets all the 
saddle time.

So, Leah I'd advise not getting rid of your Clementine right away. Let the new 
bike settle into the quiver for several months, intentionally swap rides out 
and let "the new" wear off the new Clem. The one you end up keeping should be 
the one that over time becomes THE go to bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Eric D., Paul C, and Shoji, thanks for answering my question. That makes me 
happy to have the 52!

Shoji, yes, I am really enjoying my new bike. I have all the right bags and 
racks and have you *looked* at my fenders? 朗 I will get the long wheelbase bar 
for my rack and all will be well. 

I’m really glad we all had this chat because if nothing else, it will guide 
folks toward the size that aligns with how they like their bikes to feel. If 
you like a shorter bike, size down. Or you can trust Rivendell and order 
according to their website, which will likely direct you to size up. 
Conversations like these are invaluable, since most of us cannot test ride a 
Rivendell. And we were nice! There ought not to be any feelings that were 
casualties of this thread. You are all the best.

Thanks so much, Friends.
Leah 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi BBDD,
Happy New Year! And thanks to you and RBW contributors for this thread.

Riv recommends larger size to enable handlebars to-be set in a higher 
position relative to the saddle. (Larger frames have longer head tubes, 
which means the stem is necessarily higher. Extra-long stems might not look 
so great and are could be easier to break.)

Sounds like you're adjusting to the different Clems and they ride well for 
you (albeit slight ride differences)?

Tailwinds, 
Shoji



On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 2:39:05 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Thanks for this! I do think your confidence is a little misplaced in me as 
> that Velouria character is really someone at whom to  marvel (I wanted to 
> say ‘marvel at’ but I think it’s poor form to end a sentence in a 
> preposition). I know only enough to be dangerous, which is why I go out to 
> the garage with hex keys and leave things worse than before I came. At any 
> rate, I know a good deal more than nothing, and that I owe largely to the 
> good people of the List, as you have all shared inexhaustible wealths of 
> information with me and with great patience and goodwill. ❤️
>
> One question: Why does Rivendell like us to ride the biggest size of bike 
> we can fit? I have no opinion one way or the other and am likely to take 
> their recommendation; I just want to know why. 
>
> I have never seen the chameleon green Clem in the sunlight, and now that 
> I’ve seen yours, I love it. My sister has your bike, and I got my first 
> look at it over Christmas break.  The weather was snowy and overcast and 
> that pretty green paint looked brown in her garage. See below, which is a 
> photo I took to spoof Instagram that it was New Bike Day for me (Clem #5!). 
> Given my proclivity for Clems, I’m sure most people fell for it. Can you 
> believe that brown Clem is same color as your green Clem? It’s really a 
> cool effect.
>
> As of right now, I’m pretty happy with my Clem. I went out again last 
> night, and after one final saddle adjustment, I think I’ve got my Clem 
> pretty well dialed. I had a very happy commute with my sons this morning, 
> and I am now deciding the bike is perfect. I am excited to know what the 
> new Cheviot is going to be like. Hopefully a little shorter and lighter. 
> Whatever it is, I’m sure we’ll be discussing it...
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 9, 2020, at 7:34 PM, Mark Roland  > wrote:
>
> 
> caution, rambling reply ahead, thoughts I've had that were triggered by 
> this thread. Don't Thread On Me.
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020  Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
> *Mark Roland - you might be our best hope here. When your 2019 52 Clem L 
> is built, you’ll have it to compare to the 2015 OC. Also, what is taking so 
> long? How can you treat us this way? We need answers. MY CLOTHES ARE GOING 
> OUT OF STYLE OVER HERE MARK HURRY UP. *
>
> First of all, we know your clothes won't go out of style because we can 
> see your photos of you and Betz from what, 7 years ago? Perfectly stylish 
> as of 3 minutes ago. And while I appreciate the confidence, I don't think 
> my experience will directly translate to help you figure this out. And 
> sorry, but you are now a more experienced cyclist than 98.7 percent of all 
> U.S. citizens. More Americans probably know where Iran is on a map (about 
> 28 percent) than know where a chainstay is on a bicycle. At this point your 
> observations are completely valid and certainly as useful as mine--much 
> more so of course to your particulars. You've trusted them and they've 
> gotten you here, a good place to be! 
>
> Also, I'm not all that good at this bike vs. that bike, for several 
> reasons.
>
> The main one is, I've only ridden a few bikes that I just could not like, 
> or judge better or worse than the next. Part of this is having a feel for 
> what will work beforehand, but part of it is that I am more of the idea 
> that, as the software part of the equation, it's kinda our job, assuming 
> proportions not way out of the means, to fit the hardware.
>
> Yes, there are slack bikes, and tight bikes, heavier bikes, lighter, 
> planing bikes, bikes that track and bikes that twitch, bikes with long 
> stays and bikes with short stays, bikes with high trail and bikes with low. 
> But all these parameters are actually within a fairly narrow range as well, 
> and all add up to Bicycle. Sure, I notice differences among my bicycles, 
> even ones that are kinda close on paper. And as some have mentioned, I like 
> the one I am on best. But I'm genuinely happy on any of them, and I suspect 
> I'll be happy on my Clem L. Especially because it will look so pretty (I'm 
> very superficial about my bicycles.)
>
> I don't say all this in some kind of deep zen way, just as a fact about me 
> and bikes. I get that others are more particular, that's cool. As I said in 
> an earlier post on this thread, I did not have a problem with the handling 
> on my Big Dummy, which had 80+cm 

Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Paul Clifton]

I think Riv recommends the largest size you'll fit because it can make it 
easier to get the bars high, relative to the saddle. Basically, on a bigger 
bike, your saddle is lower relative to the head tube, so the bars start out 
relatively higher than on a smaller bike where your saddle would be higher 
up and the head tube would be shorter.

Paul

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 1:39:05 PM UTC-6, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Thanks for this! I do think your confidence is a little misplaced in me as 
> that Velouria character is really someone at whom to  marvel (I wanted to 
> say ‘marvel at’ but I think it’s poor form to end a sentence in a 
> preposition). I know only enough to be dangerous, which is why I go out to 
> the garage with hex keys and leave things worse than before I came. At any 
> rate, I know a good deal more than nothing, and that I owe largely to the 
> good people of the List, as you have all shared inexhaustible wealths of 
> information with me and with great patience and goodwill. ❤️
>
> One question: Why does Rivendell like us to ride the biggest size of bike 
> we can fit? I have no opinion one way or the other and am likely to take 
> their recommendation; I just want to know why. 
>
> I have never seen the chameleon green Clem in the sunlight, and now that 
> I’ve seen yours, I love it. My sister has your bike, and I got my first 
> look at it over Christmas break.  The weather was snowy and overcast and 
> that pretty green paint looked brown in her garage. See below, which is a 
> photo I took to spoof Instagram that it was New Bike Day for me (Clem #5!). 
> Given my proclivity for Clems, I’m sure most people fell for it. Can you 
> believe that brown Clem is same color as your green Clem? It’s really a 
> cool effect.
>
> As of right now, I’m pretty happy with my Clem. I went out again last 
> night, and after one final saddle adjustment, I think I’ve got my Clem 
> pretty well dialed. I had a very happy commute with my sons this morning, 
> and I am now deciding the bike is perfect. I am excited to know what the 
> new Cheviot is going to be like. Hopefully a little shorter and lighter. 
> Whatever it is, I’m sure we’ll be discussing it...
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 9, 2020, at 7:34 PM, Mark Roland  > wrote:
>
> 
> caution, rambling reply ahead, thoughts I've had that were triggered by 
> this thread. Don't Thread On Me.
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020  Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
> *Mark Roland - you might be our best hope here. When your 2019 52 Clem L 
> is built, you’ll have it to compare to the 2015 OC. Also, what is taking so 
> long? How can you treat us this way? We need answers. MY CLOTHES ARE GOING 
> OUT OF STYLE OVER HERE MARK HURRY UP. *
>
> First of all, we know your clothes won't go out of style because we can 
> see your photos of you and Betz from what, 7 years ago? Perfectly stylish 
> as of 3 minutes ago. And while I appreciate the confidence, I don't think 
> my experience will directly translate to help you figure this out. And 
> sorry, but you are now a more experienced cyclist than 98.7 percent of all 
> U.S. citizens. More Americans probably know where Iran is on a map (about 
> 28 percent) than know where a chainstay is on a bicycle. At this point your 
> observations are completely valid and certainly as useful as mine--much 
> more so of course to your particulars. You've trusted them and they've 
> gotten you here, a good place to be! 
>
> Also, I'm not all that good at this bike vs. that bike, for several 
> reasons.
>
> The main one is, I've only ridden a few bikes that I just could not like, 
> or judge better or worse than the next. Part of this is having a feel for 
> what will work beforehand, but part of it is that I am more of the idea 
> that, as the software part of the equation, it's kinda our job, assuming 
> proportions not way out of the means, to fit the hardware.
>
> Yes, there are slack bikes, and tight bikes, heavier bikes, lighter, 
> planing bikes, bikes that track and bikes that twitch, bikes with long 
> stays and bikes with short stays, bikes with high trail and bikes with low. 
> But all these parameters are actually within a fairly narrow range as well, 
> and all add up to Bicycle. Sure, I notice differences among my bicycles, 
> even ones that are kinda close on paper. And as some have mentioned, I like 
> the one I am on best. But I'm genuinely happy on any of them, and I suspect 
> I'll be happy on my Clem L. Especially because it will look so pretty (I'm 
> very superficial about my bicycles.)
>
> I don't say all this in some kind of deep zen way, just as a fact about me 
> and bikes. I get that others are more particular, that's cool. As I said in 
> an earlier post on this thread, I did not have a problem with the handling 
> on my Big Dummy, which had 80+cm chainstays. I did park it in the hall 
> downstairs, as at the time i owned it, I was living in a 3-story walk-up 
> with the last 

[RBW] 26" road tires -- not yet dead

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps of general interest and segueing from the earlier "cheaper than
Compass options" thread on the RBW list, here is more information on
Paselas and in particular Paselas versus Compass/Rene Herse. FWIW, YMMV,
AFAIK, LMAO, ETC.

Procrastinating on work, as usual, I Googled about and found more about the
Pasela and Ribmo and Kojak, and reviews of same; interesting. So, perhaps
the gotterdamerung (with umlaut) of the 26" road tire is not just quite yet.

IF anyone wants to kick in with information about other options for 26"
more or less road tires, please do so.

https://restoringvintagebicycles.com/2017/11/28/compass-elk-pass-vs-panaracer-pasela-part-ii/

https://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/2012/05/review-panaracer-pasela.html

https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/panaracer-ribmo-pt-tyre-review.html

OTOH, "Rolling Resistance Review" rates Kojaks horribly; I think
he/she/it/they tested a 700C X 35. Odd, since my experience with the Kojaks
was positive, both for goathead puncture resistance (very good with tubes
and NO sealant), and rolling resistance (as good at least as the 240 gram
26 X 1.25 Pasela). Again, YMMV, ETC. I did "sense" that the 700C X 35
Kojaks on my Ram felt somewhat* sluggish compared to the Parigi Roubaix
that replaced them.

Other meanderings around der veb bring up 26" Tiogas and so forth. If'n any
readers have ** concrete, personal experience** with 559 X 25-to 35 mm
tires other than those named, I for one would be very interested in hearing
what youse have to say.

* By "somewhat" I mean: noticeable, but also that the Kojaks didn't feel
horrible, as did the 26 X 32 Avocet City somethings and whatever the OEM
~32 mm 40 bsd Avocet tires came with the Dahon Hon Solo, riding which made
you think nostalgically of taking up power walking or golf. And, more: the
26 X 32 mm Kojaks felt as if they rolled better than the 700C ones. Upshot:
ride what you feel.

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Bill Lindsay]

I have don't know for sure how you would tell the difference between a 
Nobilette and a Waterford Legolas.  I know some Waterford bikes have 
"Waterford" cast into the rear dropouts, but I don't think it's all of 
them.  I think the serial number may give a clue.  

Bill

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 8:44:27 AM UTC-8, MoVelo wrote:
>
> Bill
>
> I bought my Legolas second hand so not sure if it is Waterford or 
> Nobliette. How can I tell the difference?
>
> thanks
>
> James Poulson
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 9:20:46 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> When I got my Nobilette Legolas, I asked myself "why don't they have Nobi 
>> build the Roadeo also?"  I don't think Waterford has historically treated 
>> Rivendell all that well, and I try to avoid Waterford Rivendells for that 
>> reason, purely spite.  I'll seriously think about upgrading my Waterford 
>> Roadeo to a Nobilette Roadeo.  Let me know if you are dying for a 59.  I'd 
>> pay $1000 for the karma upgrade, so $1800 shipped for my Waterford Roadeo 
>> frame fork and chris king headset.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey, Y'all:
>>>
>>> Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. 
>>> So there ya go!
>>>
>>> All good, right?
>>>
>>> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires

[Patrick Moore]

This refers to the 559/26" x 1.25/32 Pasela.I hadn't looked for a long
while, but good to know that Panracer still makes the 26 X 1.25" Pasela,
and that Modern Bike and Amazon carry them:

https://www.amazon.com/panaracer-Pasela-ProTite-Folding-Tire/dp/B01K871UYE?th=1=1

https://www.modernbike.com/panaracer-t-serv-protite-26-x-1.25-tire-folding-bead-black-black

There's also the Ribmo which looks to be a bit beefier.

>From the weights listed on the Amazon page (240 grams for the 26 X 1.25),
I'd guess that these are *non*-tourguard? I commuted on these tires for a
few years, and they weren't bad as far as rolling quality goes. Quite prone
to thorn flats (which may be a measure of their rolling quality, ie thin
carcase) and quite sensitive to tire pressure. The Schwalbe Kojak seemed
(but I am relying on memory) to roll as well as the Pasela but certainly
resisted thorns better.

I did try the Tourguard version of the same tire, and that model (again,
memory) seemed to be more sluggish.

Can anyone talk about the Ribmo? How does it roll compared to Kojak or
Pasela 26 X 1.25?

I hope and pray that Jan keeps making the superlative Elk Pass, the only
really good 26" road tire on the market, afaik. Interesting: as durable --
1,500 miles rear, fixed -- as the Pasela 1.25 non-TG; 60 or 80 grams
lighter (~175 versus 240 and 260 claimed weights for Pasela), rolls much
better, far less pressure sensitive. But also $80+ each (which I happily
pay). Note that Jan insisted (BQ? Boblist?) that his tires were very
different from the Paselas - new molds and all.

Note that IME, the 26 X 1.25 Pasela, at least the non-TG version, is not
much stronger than the Elk Pass; in fact, the sidewalls deteriorate more
quickly, and the tread, while thicker, is also more easily damaged -- I
scraped off a 2" long section of tread when a saddlebag came loose from the
bracket and jammed the rear tire as I was at the bottom of a hill;
fortunately, fixed gear, so my speed was moderate.

Still and all, good to know that there are several *tolerable *~32 mm road
tire alternatives for 559 wheels still on the market.




On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 9:30 AM Matt Dreher <99m...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you find that Compasses end up too fragile and expensive for your taste
> I highly recommend Panaracer's other tires, as they are Compass'
> manufacturer and many elements of them show up in cheaper tires.
>
> The Pasela is a regular mostly slick road tread with a very thin, flexible
> sidewall similar to Compass' regular casings and the Gravelking slick is a
> file tread with a less flexible but still supple reinforced sidewall
> comparable to the Endurance casings on newer Compass tires.
>
> On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 2:43:23 PM UTC-6, Carla Waugh wrote:
>>
>> In the winter I run narrower tires because of fenders and I'm currently
>> using Jack Brown Blue. I really like Compass tires and have not tried the
>> Compass tires in the same width. I ride mixed surfaces but mostly pavement.
>> If you have what did you think and which model?
>
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> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[MoVelo]

Bill

I bought my Legolas second hand so not sure if it is Waterford or 
Nobliette. How can I tell the difference?

thanks

James Poulson

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 9:20:46 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> When I got my Nobilette Legolas, I asked myself "why don't they have Nobi 
> build the Roadeo also?"  I don't think Waterford has historically treated 
> Rivendell all that well, and I try to avoid Waterford Rivendells for that 
> reason, purely spite.  I'll seriously think about upgrading my Waterford 
> Roadeo to a Nobilette Roadeo.  Let me know if you are dying for a 59.  I'd 
> pay $1000 for the karma upgrade, so $1800 shipped for my Waterford Roadeo 
> frame fork and chris king headset.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:
>>
>> Hey, Y'all:
>>
>> Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. 
>> So there ya go!
>>
>> All good, right?
>>
>> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tires

[Matt Dreher]

If you find that Compasses end up too fragile and expensive for your taste 
I highly recommend Panaracer's other tires, as they are Compass' 
manufacturer and many elements of them show up in cheaper tires. 

The Pasela is a regular mostly slick road tread with a very thin, flexible 
sidewall similar to Compass' regular casings and the Gravelking slick is a 
file tread with a less flexible but still supple reinforced sidewall 
comparable to the Endurance casings on newer Compass tires.

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 2:43:23 PM UTC-6, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
> In the winter I run narrower tires because of fenders and I'm currently 
> using Jack Brown Blue. I really like Compass tires and have not tried the 
> Compass tires in the same width. I ride mixed surfaces but mostly pavement. 
> If you have what did you think and which model?

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Will @ Riv]

That's actually a Waterford Roadeo pictured in the email, we don't have a 
Nobilette one yet. Regarding the seatlug, you can pick, either socketed or 
traditional. The default is traditional.
-will

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Scott Calhoun]

Yes please, link to the photo! I can’t seem to find the photo on Rivs site. 

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[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Mike Godwin]

It started with me from co-workers in Oakland CA talking about BOB while on 
rides, and doing group orders by mail to Bike Nashbar, so 91-92 ish. I sent 
in my post card to be a BOB, but shortly after mailing, I think BOB folded 
and resurfaced as Rivendell. The first "readers" were several 8.5x11 
stapled pages (maybe 11x17 double printed and folded) talking about the new 
business and bikes available - Road Standard and All Rounder, and maybe a 
mountain bike. My first purchase was Cyclone short reach brakes to install 
on my Guerciotti. Followed by Willow tripleizer (I think) for a 144 bcd 
crank. Later, I put a deposit on an All Rounder, and paid monthly on a 
lay-away plan. I think that was about 1996 or 97 when I received the All 
Rounder frame and fork. Rode it on the 1998 Grizzly Peak Century. Since 
then, No.005 Rambouillet, AHHilsen, Legolas, Roadeo, MIT Appaloosa and MUSA 
Atlantis. Still get small parts from Riv when I am near Riv WHQ. The 
MUSA Atlantis is the only Riv in the stable (shares with Black Mt Cycles 
Road, 85 Schwinn Voyageur, 97 Lemond Zurich).

Mike SLO CA 

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 12:57:21 PM UTC-8, eddietheflay wrote:

> about 20 years ago i stumbled onto the forum sponsored by Serotta Bicycle 
> Company. via that virtual method, I was introduced to Dr. Douglas Brooks. 
> He had the strongest opinions, the most convincing reasons for having those 
> opinions, and a giant and every changing collection of bikes = only the 
> most gorgeous of bikes. DBRK as he was known online loved Rivendell and 
> Grant Peterson. I ride big bikes for two reasons: 1. i am old and not very 
> flexible and 2. because DBRK and GP convinced me that it just made sense.
>
> Since that time I have owned two orange Rabouillets, two gorgeous blue 
> Bleriots, and one green coupled Rambouillet. I have mostly moved on to all 
> fast pavement bikes but my fit is still based on DBRK and GP.
>
>
> https://www.glo.com/preview/teachers/dr-douglas-brooks?utm_source=google_medium=cpc_campaign=1656894644_content=6025643_term=kwd-591110618803=CjwKCAiAu9vwBRAEEiwAzvjq-5FAx4tgFD3yQIOsVnzlcas5t5gWJn7Xu8KRljvt7ZVdlA3cTVnViBoCu3cQAvD_BwE
>
> On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 9:52:28 AM UTC-8, Pancake wrote:
>>
>> Leah's discussion about long wheel base led to a lot of interesting 
>> discussions about how people found Rivendell. I'd like to know:
>>
>>- How you first found out about Rivendell?
>>- What caused you to actually get your first Rivendell frame or 
>>component (or something Riv inspired) ... and what was that first buy?
>>- And could you add a photo of that first?
>>
>> Personally, I was overweight and looking to make my biking more 
>> comfortable back in 2004 in Berkeley. Searching online led me to look at 
>> Brooks saddles and sweptback handlebars and ultimately to Rivendell to buy 
>> some steel Albatross bars ... which I still use today! On a student budget, 
>> I attached them to a Jamis Coda Sport (steel frame) with beefed up wheels 
>> from The Missing Link bike co-op. Then about 2 years ago my friend Ronnie 
>> gave me a Cheviot frame to build up as a distraction while waiting to 
>> adopt. The moment I finished building the bike, as I was attaching the 
>> pedals my wife pulled into the garage, jumped out of the car and with tears 
>> and a huge smile and told me to get plane tickets to Kansas because our 
>> daughter was about to be born! Now our daughter is almost 2 years old and I 
>> have the Cheviot, a Sam Hillborne, and the same friend is lending me a 
>> Rosco Baby frame until that we built a couple weeks ago for front kid seat 
>> rides. 
>>
>> When Grant met my daughter, he noticed the "Baby Muggle On Board" sticker 
>> on our car window ... he was rightfully concerned that we didn't know if 
>> she was a muggle or not!
>>
>> Ride on,
>> Abe
>>
>> Some pics of my other Rivendell bikes (and the Rosco Baby with those 
>> original Albatross bars) here - https://imgur.com/a/wWgiDmh
>>
>> [image: IMG_4021.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Scott Calhoun]

I don’t like the price of the RH crankset, but if you want an 11 speed 
compatibility, 177mm arms, a very narrow Q factor in a subcompact double (I’ve 
run 30/46 and 32/48), there are no other options that I know of. IMO the RH 
style looks perfect for a Roadeo. If you can live with 170, 175 cranks with a 
slightly wider Q factor, there are other choices. 

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Jock Dewey]

Indeed. That configuration is the latest RIV design. Not my cup o' tea, but 
certainly rock solid!

Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 10:59:34 AM UTC-5, Don Compton wrote:
>
> I have a 59cm Roadeo ( 3+ years old ) and I noticed in the picture of the 
> new Roadeo that the conection of the seat lug and the seat stay looks 
> different. Just an observation.
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:
>>
>> Hey, Y'all:
>>
>> Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. 
>> So there ya go!
>>
>> All good, right?
>>
>> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

['Eric Myers' via RBW Owners Bunch]

This has been an interesting thread to read, for sure.  My sense from 
riding mostly older bikes was that head tube angle + trail + front center 
length + hand position affected steering and handling more, while rear 
center (chainstay) and overall wheel base affected smoothness of ride.  The 
front end factors always seemed more difficult to understand how they work 
together than the comparatively simple rear end.  At some point I decided 
that the only thing that mattered when buying a bike is whether you like 
how it feels or not.  Then I bought a first version Sam as a frame (no test 
ride) and it's my favorite bike.  Grant's experience as an artist/designer 
carries a lot of weight with me (I had/have some Bridgestones as well as 
the Sam), and I don't take my thoughts about specific details half as 
seriously as my experience of his holistic approach.

But yeah, bigger bikes are a lot more awkward to store, carry, and 
transport.

Ranges for my bikes were: Chainstays 435-470mm, so not a huge range; Front 
center 611-640mm; Head tube angle 68-74*; calculated trail 36-63mm.

-Eric

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[RBW] WTB - Nitto lugged Seat post 27.2 for my Quickbeam

[chris feczko]

Someone is selling one in bk on cl.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/bop/d/brooklyn-nitto-s84-lugged-setback/7041903356.html

Chris 

Queens

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Don Compton]

I have a 59cm Roadeo ( 3+ years old ) and I noticed in the picture of the 
new Roadeo that the conection of the seat lug and the seat stay looks 
different. Just an observation.

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Hey, Y'all:
>
> Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. So 
> there ya go!
>
> All good, right?
>
> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Joe Bernard]

Bombadil and Wilbury/Glorius are whatever the custom price is now. 

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[RBW] Re: WTB - Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass Tires

[Christopher Wiggins]

Hello,
For your consideration.

https://thepsychicderailleur.com/product/compass-snoqualmie-pass-700x44/

Chris

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 12:16:19 PM UTC-5, Friend wrote:
>
> Used or new, one or a pair.  I'm located in VA.
>

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Garth]

This reminds of sports broadcasters on the radio who get so caught up in 
the action that they forget the medium they are working with and proceed as 
if it's TV and everyone is visually seeing it as they are  ...oops ... 
*there are no pictures on radio ! *

A direct link of said pic would be greatly helpful . 



On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 7:04:03 PM UTC-5, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Hey, Y'all:
>
> Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. So 
> there ya go!
>
> All good, right?
>
> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[John G.]

Is this a sign that I should sell my 61 cm Roadeo so that I can get a 63 cm 
Roadeo? Or is it a sign that I need TWO Roadeos?

Also: Bombadils are still an option? Anyone know what a Bomba costs? I have all 
the parts I’d need to build one up...

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Lester Lammers]

You can't expect the LWB Rivs to handle like a sport or racing bike. They 
don't and weren't designed to. They are different. I have a MIT Atlantis 
and it is unlike any bike I have owned. I was not sure what to expect but 
once I got it dialed in it's a joy to ride. Horses for courses.

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:39:03 PM UTC-5, Matt Dreher wrote:
>
> Fair, I was a bit rushed writing that. I think it's a sort of a modern 
> vernacular thing, using 'you' where one should really be using 'one.' This 
> should make it clearer.
>
> *I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling 
> significantly. I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to 
> spend a long while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to 
> me on that bike. I know that one can take the same lines but taking the 
> same line on the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the 
> other. It makes me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose 
> surfaces. Of course once I've lost traction it's easier to control and 
> recover from skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in 
> the first place.*
>
>
> Something I've considered that may be coloring my perceptions: my height. 
> I'm 6'5", proportioned just so that 61 to 62cm frames are what fits me 
> right. Leaning further when one is tall must necessarily put more lateral 
> force on the tire, right? It seems that there's just more at stake when 
> your center of mass is further from the ground. Long wheelbases mean that 
> you necessarily must lean further. Maybe the confidence I feel on the SWB 
> bike is just a matter of not having to dig as far into my reserve of grip?
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 1:42:11 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Hey Matt! I got confused in your middle paragraph. Too many pronouns that 
>> seem reversed of what I thought you were saying for me to follow. Would you 
>> mind clarifying please?
>>
>> I've not heard anyone say wheelbase doesn't affect handling, 
>> significantly or otherwise. The entire experience I've had with longer 
>> wheel base is significantly better handling. It DOES require adjustment and 
>> different lines. There may be a learning curve, but a sharp lad could 
>> easily suss that out and not need to slow down, and likely go yet faster if 
>> desired. Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 12:25:24 PM UTC-7, Matt Dreher wrote:
>>>
>>> I finally concluded that the chainstays on my 61 Roadini are just a hair 
>>> too long at 46cm. I'm not opposed to longer chainstays, it's just that it 
>>> would be nice if there were a Rivendell option other than the Roadeo that 
>>> had slightly more traditional road geometry. If they had capped it at 44cm 
>>> for the large sizes or specced horizontal dropouts to allow a bit of 
>>> adjustability I probably wouldn't have a real issue with it. 
>>>
>>> I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling 
>>> significantly. I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to 
>>> spend a long while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to 
>>> me on that bike. I know that you can take the same lines but taking the 
>>> same line on the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the 
>>> other. It makes me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose 
>>> surfaces. Of course once you've lost traction it's easier to control and 
>>> recover from skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in 
>>> the first place, you know?
>>>
>>> As someone who adjusts their bars below the saddle I'm also not really 
>>> representative of the typical Rivendell rider, though. I suppose that at 
>>> this point complaining about no shorter-chainstay'd Rivendells is like 
>>> complaining that Cervelo doesn't have a steel option any more. Both 
>>> companies once had the option for it but the type of riders they're 
>>> intended for necessarily led them away from that.
>>>
>>

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