[RBW] Re: FS: Various bike bits plus clothes and film stuff

[Shawn Granton]

Update: Pendleton jacket has sold.

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 6:53:24 PM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:

> Update: Bottle dynamo and old-school cyclometer sold.
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:23:19 PM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:
>
>> Update: Mojave bottle cage and arm warmers have sold.
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:10:01 PM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:
>>
>>> Update: Film and bike cap have sold.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:01:31 AM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:
>>>
 Hello, friends! The endless purging of unused items continues. All 
 prices are USD, and do not include shipping. Shipping will start at $5 
 USD, 
 depending on what and how much you get. Local contacless pickup can be 
 arranged (around Mount Tabor in Portland, Oregon), but you have to pre-pay 
 first. Payment via PayPal. *Interested? Drop me a line 
 at urbanadven...@gmail.com and include your ZIP Code so I can sort out 
 shipping costs or indicate you want local pick-up.*

 The basket is local pickup only.

 *Please note that I have sold some items still depicted in the flickr 
 set below.*
 *Firstly, bike bits.*

 *FIVE DOLLAR ITEMS:*

- *Green Guru “Clincher” (very) small frame bag.* 50 cubic inch/0.8 
litre capacity, velcro straps.
- *AXA HR bottle dynamo, left mount. *Typical Euro bottle dynamo, 
6V/3W output, with two outputs, meaning you can wire both front and 
 rear 
light from the dynamo, rather than having to wire rear light to front 
light. Nothing functionally wrong with this dynamo, but the spring that 
keeps the bottle in the “off” position, away from the tire, has 
 weakened. 
So the bottle can switch to “on” if you hit a large-enough bump. No 
mounting hardware included.
- *Cadet old school cyclometer. *It’s the “clicky” type that mounts 
to front hub. No mounting hardware included.

 *FIFTEEN DOLLAR ITEMS:*

- *Wald “Clem” style basket. *This basket will hold a Rivendell 
Sackville CLEMBASACK just fine. It’s the more modern Wald basket, with 
 a 
nice big and long clamp attachment to the bars and adjustable struts. 
 Top 
opening of basket measures 14″ x 9″, tapers to 12″ x 7″ at the bottom. 
 7″ 
deep. *LOCAL PICKUP ONLY FOR THE BASKET.*

 *TWENTY DOLLAR ITEMS:*

- *Velo Orange “Mojave” water bottle cage. *Designed to fit 32oz 
Nalgene bottles, 32 oz insulated Klean Kanteen bottles, and 40oz Klean 
Kanteen stainless steel bottles. The mounting tab has positions for 
 five 
bolts, so you can use it with a standard “two bolt” braze-on area, or 
 three 
bolt mount too. Never mounted, still in bag.
- *Black Star Bags Hip Pouch bag. *Aka “fanny pack”. Cordura outer 
with vinyl interior, water-resistant. 10″ wide x 6″ tall x 2.5″ deep. 
 Comes 
with adjustable belt.

 *Clothing, prices as marked:*

- *Patagonia Organic Cotton short sleeve button up shirt, size L. *NIce 
light gauzy cotton weave, great for summer. Well loved–two small holes 
 on 
right side by pocket. *$10*
- *Plaid wool bike cap. *Fits like a large. Made by Drew in Hood 
River. *$10*
- *Smartwool merino sleeves, size L/XL. $10*
- *Pendleton wool sweater vest, size XL. $15*
- *Nau wool/poly hoodie, size XL. $25*
- *Pendleton zip up wool “board” shirt jacket, size L. *Yeah, that 
classic surfing Pendleton pattern as seen on Beach Boys record covers. 
*$30*

 *Camera/Film Stuff:*

- *49mm Promaster filters. *Have a Sepia tone filter and FL-D 
filter. *$5 each or both for $8.*
- *Arista EDU/Fomapan 400 black and white film. *(Arista is 
Fomapan.) Five rolls total, two 24 exposure rolls and three 36. Cold 
stored. Expiration dates range from 2022 to 2023. *$15 for all of 
them.*

 Photos of all items in this flickr album:


 https://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/albums/72157718562688556

 Thank you,

 Shawn

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

[John Rinker]

Thanks, Bones. I know how you feel- sometimes I can't help but sit and 
stare at Sweet As. But then, I remember how much fun she is to ride and off 
I go! 

I hope life opens some doors for you soon so that you might continue your 
adventures and live your own dreams. Cheers. 

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:06:22 AM UTC+9 Bones wrote:

> I never get tired of looking at that bike. I had my Appaloosa set up in a 
> very similar fashion. I am seldom able to leave town these days but I'm 
> glad some of you folks are living my dream!
>
> Bones
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 5:13:32 AM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Hunq on tour in Japan.
>> [image: HunqKyushu.jpeg]
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 6:37:56 AM UTC+9 Ray Evans wrote:
>>
>>> Soma-Riv San Marcos v2 on the bluffs at More Mesa, Santa Barbara
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 12:20 PM JRStern11 via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 Jason, great to see how much you love that bike.  

 Sent from ProtonMail for iOS


 On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 12:38 PM, Jason Fuller  
 wrote:

 Joel - cheers!  I'm at around 1550 km on the Bombadil odometer now, 
 which surpasses how much mileage I put on the Clem by 400 km - and in half 
 the time!

 JS - They are XTR M980 cranks, apparently the last 104 BCD version 
 before going to the non-symmetric bolt pattern. I bought the matching 
 outer 
 ring on closeout from Universal but turns out I need extra long chainring 
 bolts to use it, so it remains in the parts bin :)   


 On Sunday, 4 April 2021 at 15:41:14 UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:

>
> Jason, what is that crank you're using? 
> I've seen it on a few bikes and have been curious what it is.
> JS
> On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 3:00:49 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Ol' Bomby the other day, picking up a Simworks rack and black Wald 
>> (note the double basket up front) for the MB-1 project.  I've got a real 
>> sturdy set of wheels on order for the Bombadil (Cliffhangers to 
>> SON/White 
>> Ind), then it's "done", and my hope is to start wearing parts out, 
>> rather 
>> than upgrade for no good reason haha   
>>
>> [image: PXL_20210401_020111383.jpg]
>>
>> On Friday, 1 February 2019 at 11:29:13 UTC-8 Adam Leibow wrote:
>>
>>> hi all, i want to create a thread where you just post a picture of 
>>> your rivendell(s) whenever you feel like it. hope this is OK w/ the 
>>> mods. i 
>>> love lookin at pics of em all day. i will start with my sam hillborne.
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_3920.jpeg]
>>>
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 .



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>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Various bike bits plus clothes and film stuff

[Shawn Granton]

Update: Bottle dynamo and old-school cyclometer sold.

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:23:19 PM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:

> Update: Mojave bottle cage and arm warmers have sold.
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:10:01 PM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:
>
>> Update: Film and bike cap have sold.
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:01:31 AM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, friends! The endless purging of unused items continues. All 
>>> prices are USD, and do not include shipping. Shipping will start at $5 USD, 
>>> depending on what and how much you get. Local contacless pickup can be 
>>> arranged (around Mount Tabor in Portland, Oregon), but you have to pre-pay 
>>> first. Payment via PayPal. *Interested? Drop me a line 
>>> at urbanadven...@gmail.com and include your ZIP Code so I can sort out 
>>> shipping costs or indicate you want local pick-up.*
>>>
>>> The basket is local pickup only.
>>>
>>> *Please note that I have sold some items still depicted in the flickr 
>>> set below.*
>>> *Firstly, bike bits.*
>>>
>>> *FIVE DOLLAR ITEMS:*
>>>
>>>- *Green Guru “Clincher” (very) small frame bag.* 50 cubic inch/0.8 
>>>litre capacity, velcro straps.
>>>- *AXA HR bottle dynamo, left mount. *Typical Euro bottle dynamo, 
>>>6V/3W output, with two outputs, meaning you can wire both front and rear 
>>>light from the dynamo, rather than having to wire rear light to front 
>>>light. Nothing functionally wrong with this dynamo, but the spring that 
>>>keeps the bottle in the “off” position, away from the tire, has 
>>> weakened. 
>>>So the bottle can switch to “on” if you hit a large-enough bump. No 
>>>mounting hardware included.
>>>- *Cadet old school cyclometer. *It’s the “clicky” type that mounts 
>>>to front hub. No mounting hardware included.
>>>
>>> *FIFTEEN DOLLAR ITEMS:*
>>>
>>>- *Wald “Clem” style basket. *This basket will hold a Rivendell 
>>>Sackville CLEMBASACK just fine. It’s the more modern Wald basket, with a 
>>>nice big and long clamp attachment to the bars and adjustable struts. 
>>> Top 
>>>opening of basket measures 14″ x 9″, tapers to 12″ x 7″ at the bottom. 
>>> 7″ 
>>>deep. *LOCAL PICKUP ONLY FOR THE BASKET.*
>>>
>>> *TWENTY DOLLAR ITEMS:*
>>>
>>>- *Velo Orange “Mojave” water bottle cage. *Designed to fit 32oz 
>>>Nalgene bottles, 32 oz insulated Klean Kanteen bottles, and 40oz Klean 
>>>Kanteen stainless steel bottles. The mounting tab has positions for five 
>>>bolts, so you can use it with a standard “two bolt” braze-on area, or 
>>> three 
>>>bolt mount too. Never mounted, still in bag.
>>>- *Black Star Bags Hip Pouch bag. *Aka “fanny pack”. Cordura outer 
>>>with vinyl interior, water-resistant. 10″ wide x 6″ tall x 2.5″ deep. 
>>> Comes 
>>>with adjustable belt.
>>>
>>> *Clothing, prices as marked:*
>>>
>>>- *Patagonia Organic Cotton short sleeve button up shirt, size L. *NIce 
>>>light gauzy cotton weave, great for summer. Well loved–two small holes 
>>> on 
>>>right side by pocket. *$10*
>>>- *Plaid wool bike cap. *Fits like a large. Made by Drew in Hood 
>>>River. *$10*
>>>- *Smartwool merino sleeves, size L/XL. $10*
>>>- *Pendleton wool sweater vest, size XL. $15*
>>>- *Nau wool/poly hoodie, size XL. $25*
>>>- *Pendleton zip up wool “board” shirt jacket, size L. *Yeah, that 
>>>classic surfing Pendleton pattern as seen on Beach Boys record covers. 
>>>*$30*
>>>
>>> *Camera/Film Stuff:*
>>>
>>>- *49mm Promaster filters. *Have a Sepia tone filter and FL-D 
>>>filter. *$5 each or both for $8.*
>>>- *Arista EDU/Fomapan 400 black and white film. *(Arista is 
>>>Fomapan.) Five rolls total, two 24 exposure rolls and three 36. Cold 
>>>stored. Expiration dates range from 2022 to 2023. *$15 for all of 
>>>them.*
>>>
>>> Photos of all items in this flickr album:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/albums/72157718562688556
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Jim M.]

I believe yours was built in 2012, and if you look at the Wayback 
Machine, 
https://web.archive.org/web/20120519113952if_/http://www.rivbike.com/category-s/619.htm
the 2012 website shows the Hunq without the cream seat tube rectangle.

jim m
walnut creek, ca

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 4:19:57 PM UTC-7 Nikko in Oakland wrote:

> Hm, anybody know the history past the gray ones?
>
> I have a green Hunqapillar with no cream accent on the seat tube. Serial 
> would be either...
>
> P12088 or F12088. There are too many coats of paint over it, and I can't 
> exactly tell what the numbers/letters are. 
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:45:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Huh, I guess my Riv memory ain't what it used to be, I seem to have 
>> transposed Toyo-trained to Toyo-built. I know nothing! 
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:29:53 AM UTC-7 Jim M. wrote:
>>
>>> Here's a link to the Wayback Machine for Rivbike in 2010 when the Hunq 
>>> was new: 
>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20100430212618/http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713
>>>
>>> "The Hunqapillar frame is an interesting mix of materials and 
>>> co-conspirators. It's made in Taiwan by a team of builders trained by Tetsu 
>>> Ishigaki, of Toyo. The main tubes are the most expensive steel tubing we 
>>> could find anywhere --- Japanese Kaisei 8630 heat-treated. The seat and 
>>> chainstays are excellent Taiwan CrMo. The fork is made in Japan by Tetsu 
>>> Ishigaki at Toyo."
>>>
>>> jim m
>>> walnut creek, ca
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:04:54 AM UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:
>>>
 I could be wrong about this, but does anyone seem to remember reading 
 one of GP's posts about them using Kasei tubing on those first grey/maroon 
 (and grey/orange) Hunqs?

 On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:02:21 AM UTC-4 Charlie R wrote:

> I pre-ordered one of the original Hunqapillars.  From what I can 
> recall, the Hunquapillar was the first Taiwan built Rivendell bicycle 
> after 
> Rivendell left Toyo Japan.  It might have even been a Toyo Taiwan shop.  
> I 
> don't believe any were made by Toyo Japan.   There was a long wait period 
> and when I finally received the bicycle, Keven told me it was made by 
> Waterford because the order from Taiwan was just taking to long.  I 
> remember checking the serial number and it fit with the Waterford scheme. 
>  
> Subsequent batches were made in Taiwan at least for a while and might 
> have 
> reverted back to Waterford when the batch orders stopped.  
>
> The bike was the gray maroon colors.  I have a picture somewhere which 
> I will try to find.  I will also try to find my original receipt.  A 
> fellow 
> list member now owns the bike.
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:08:44 AM UTC-4 John M wrote:
>
>> [image: right dropout.jpg]
>>
>> This was from my Hunqapillar with serial number "M14008".  Which I 
>> had assumed meant the eighth frame produced in 2014 at Waterford.
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:50:11 AM UTC-6 Ed Fausto wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joe,  would you know how to determine if the frame is made in 
>>> Toyo or Waterford?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:24:42 PM UTC+8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 That's correct, the first ones had orange and are very rare, then 
 kidney bean, then they went to the green frames. To my knowledge all 
 are 
 Toyo or Waterford. 



 On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:04:29 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:

> I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what 
> the "p" designates?  
>
> On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, 
> painted gray with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump 
> peg 
> painted gray, with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  
> The only 
> other gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color 
> of the 
> head tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a 
> random sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has 
> an 
> orange ring at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a 
> somewhat 
> sloppy white.  
>
> I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came 
> from that first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>
>>
>> I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very 
>> first batch and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  
>> Taiwan?  I've 
>> heard of Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first 
>> batch 
>> was from Taiwan.

[RBW] Re: Hub Area Rack (HAR) Bag Information Request.

[David B]

Thanks to a very kind listmember, I have all the info I need. I'll post 
photos once I get these made up.
Thanks,
David

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 4:59:32 PM UTC-5 David B wrote:

> After waiting for what seemed like a very long time, the Hub Area racks 
> were restocked a while back and luckily I snagged one out of what must've 
> been a small batch that were available as they sold out within a day.
>
> My request is about the bags that originally accompanied this rack. First 
> off, I'm a hobby bag maker, so I'll be making my own bags. I am not 
> interested in buying the Sackville bags.
> My request is more about the original size of these bags so I'm sticking 
> to a similarly sized bag, as Rivendell had designed the rack for.
> I know the bags have a neat pocket that slides into the bottom of the rack 
> to secure it. 
>
> I am wondering if someone might point me to detailed photos, or perhaps 
> somewhere that has a little info. Even better if someone has the bags and 
> would be able to measure the dimensions and maybe send a photo or two.
>
> Please note that I would not be making this request if Rivendell were 
> still making and selling these, but it seems like these won't be made 
> again. I also have no intention of selling bags for this rack either - just 
> making a pair for my own use. They'll be going on this bike: 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CMNYBW9lbWk/
>
> Thanks,
> David
> River Grove, IL
>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Nikko in Oakland]

Hm, anybody know the history past the gray ones?

I have a green Hunqapillar with no cream accent on the seat tube. Serial 
would be either...

P12088 or F12088. There are too many coats of paint over it, and I can't 
exactly tell what the numbers/letters are. 
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:45:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Huh, I guess my Riv memory ain't what it used to be, I seem to have 
> transposed Toyo-trained to Toyo-built. I know nothing! 
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:29:53 AM UTC-7 Jim M. wrote:
>
>> Here's a link to the Wayback Machine for Rivbike in 2010 when the Hunq 
>> was new: 
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20100430212618/http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713
>>
>> "The Hunqapillar frame is an interesting mix of materials and 
>> co-conspirators. It's made in Taiwan by a team of builders trained by Tetsu 
>> Ishigaki, of Toyo. The main tubes are the most expensive steel tubing we 
>> could find anywhere --- Japanese Kaisei 8630 heat-treated. The seat and 
>> chainstays are excellent Taiwan CrMo. The fork is made in Japan by Tetsu 
>> Ishigaki at Toyo."
>>
>> jim m
>> walnut creek, ca
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:04:54 AM UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:
>>
>>> I could be wrong about this, but does anyone seem to remember reading 
>>> one of GP's posts about them using Kasei tubing on those first grey/maroon 
>>> (and grey/orange) Hunqs?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:02:21 AM UTC-4 Charlie R wrote:
>>>
 I pre-ordered one of the original Hunqapillars.  From what I can 
 recall, the Hunquapillar was the first Taiwan built Rivendell bicycle 
 after 
 Rivendell left Toyo Japan.  It might have even been a Toyo Taiwan shop.  I 
 don't believe any were made by Toyo Japan.   There was a long wait period 
 and when I finally received the bicycle, Keven told me it was made by 
 Waterford because the order from Taiwan was just taking to long.  I 
 remember checking the serial number and it fit with the Waterford scheme.  
 Subsequent batches were made in Taiwan at least for a while and might have 
 reverted back to Waterford when the batch orders stopped.  

 The bike was the gray maroon colors.  I have a picture somewhere which 
 I will try to find.  I will also try to find my original receipt.  A 
 fellow 
 list member now owns the bike.

 On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:08:44 AM UTC-4 John M wrote:

> [image: right dropout.jpg]
>
> This was from my Hunqapillar with serial number "M14008".  Which I had 
> assumed meant the eighth frame produced in 2014 at Waterford.
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:50:11 AM UTC-6 Ed Fausto wrote:
>
>> Hi Joe,  would you know how to determine if the frame is made in Toyo 
>> or Waterford?
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:24:42 PM UTC+8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> That's correct, the first ones had orange and are very rare, then 
>>> kidney bean, then they went to the green frames. To my knowledge all 
>>> are 
>>> Toyo or Waterford. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:04:29 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>>>
 I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what 
 the "p" designates?  

 On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, painted 
 gray with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump peg 
 painted 
 gray, with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  The only 
 other 
 gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color of the 
 head 
 tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a 
 random 
 sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has an orange 
 ring 
 at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a somewhat sloppy 
 white.  

 I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came 
 from that first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  

 On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:

>
> I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very 
> first batch and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  Taiwan? 
>  I've 
> heard of Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first 
> batch 
> was from Taiwan.
>
> I have four different Hunqapillar brochures, one of which 
> specifies the brand and number of the main tubes, but I have no idea 
> if 
> that brochure applies to mine or not.  
>
> The serial number format is RIV"P"XXX.  I'm not sure the "P" is 
> actually a "P".  The paint is pretty heavy in that spot.  
>
> What color is your Hunqapillar?  Mine is gray and orange.  
> On 

Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Adam]

Thanks for all the thoughts.

Someone asked if I'd weighed the wheels, unfortunately I don't have a scale.

Maybe I'll swap the tires sometime. Not really my end goal, but would help 
me understand what's going on.

Just curious if anyone on here has ever swapped from a heavier wheelset to 
a lighter one on one of the burlier Rivs?

There's a somewhat absurd aspect to my curiosity, since I bought the 
Hillborne to have something livelier than the Marrakesh, but now the ride 
of the Hillborne makes it hard to use the Marrakesh. I intended to keep the 
Hillborne on road and use the Marrakesh for gravel and light singletrack 
but have been taking the Hillborne for those rides too. The only real 
"problem" is that I've banged my fenders up a bit and would rather be using 
the bosco bar and knobby tires of the Marrakesh off-road.

Anyway, regardless of practical stuff, it's good to understand the effects 
of different wheels.

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 4:54:12 PM UTC-4 David Person wrote:

> Adam, good choice on the Barlow Pass tires.  I ran a set on my Hillborne 
> for 5 years till the rear wore out this past fall.  I switched to 
> Snoqualmie Pass tires for a bit more cush.  I have them mounted on Dyad 
> rims and they measure 41mm wide, where the BPs measured 35mm, if I 
> remember.  Tried a pair of Oracle Ridge but they were a bit on the large 
> size.  They would fit but hard to get the rear wheel on and off.  In my 
> opinion, the Snoqualmies ride/handle/respond very much like the Barlows 
> with a bit more tire volume to soak up the bumps.  Not an answer to the 
> exact question you were asking, but wanted to congratulate you on your tire 
> choice and give my two cents.
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:17:03 PM UTC-7 philipr...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> So we're back to #1 - light tires & tubes. Followed by #2 - light rims & 
>> spokes.
>>
>> No one else want to chime in on friction? How much slip does say, a 
>> semi-knobby tire like the Cazadero allow compared to the RH & is that 
>> noticeable when accelerating?
>>
>> Inboard brakes are a thing of beauty & danger, I believe the Lotus 72 F1 
>> car may have been the 1st to implement. The problem has been the load on 
>> the half shaft which, according to the inquest, the associated failure of 
>> that was the cause of Rindt's fatal crash in that car.
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 3:07:59 PM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:
>>
>>> The comparison to motor vehicle unsprung weight may parallel bicyclists' 
>>> focus on wheel and tire weight but available horsepower of even weak 
>>> engines makes all but the most competitive motor vehicles seem sloppy with 
>>> their unsprung, wheel and tire weights comparatively. 
>>>
>>> You on your bike won't make enough horsepower to overcome much weight 
>>> increases by anything distant from the hub. The greatest improvement to 
>>> angular acceleration (increasing a wheels rotating speed) will be at the 
>>> greatest distance from the axle; tires/tubes. Smaller changes in weight net 
>>> larger feelings of better response at that distant component, tubes come in 
>>> second, rim choice third. Spokes are next and the hubs may be eclipsed by 
>>> having lighter pedals. Light wheels, on the unsprung weight topic, do seem 
>>> to ride nicer because they don't require such impact to move up and down 
>>> over surface irregularities. Heavy rimmed wheels cancel benefits of light 
>>> tires in my very subjective experiments. 
>>>
>>> Total weight of a bike can affect what you've felt as a difference 
>>> between your two bikes but the fastest way to improve the ride of a bike to 
>>> me is a wheel made of a light rim/spokes and a light tire. I ruined the 
>>> young woman we mentor by loaning her my Rambouillet's PJW-made wheels for a 
>>> long ride. Velocity Synergy rims with 36°, straight gauge spokes, XT hubs 
>>> and RH Stampede Pass ELs and light tubes. She is having me work up a price 
>>> for a set of responsibly lighter wheels with a dyno hub front as a result. 
>>>
>>> Some strategies in automotive design to reduce unsprung weight are 
>>> elegant. The Alfa Romeo Giulia GT 1600 Junior De Dion rear suspension 
>>> removed the brake disc from the unsprung weight by putting them on the 
>>> other ends of the half shafts, on either side of the differential. that 
>>> carried on in their designs for decades. 
>>>
>>> Andy Cheatham
>>> Pittsburgh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:41:15 AM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Car & motorcycle racers talk about unsprung weight, in other words the 
 weight of the components that the suspension system does not act upon 
 (rims, tires, brake calipers etc.). Keeping this number to a minimum is 
 critical to building a competitive vehicle as this directly effects 
 acceleration & braking performance and cannot be manipulated by suspension 
 design. This is consistent with Newton's 2nd law which states that 
 Acceleration = 

[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ed Carolipio]

I suggest using an FD for a road triple or a mountain triple (instead of a 
road double) with the 38-24 cranks as those are just the middle and inner 
chainrings the FD expects in a triple. The 105 is designed for a very large 
outer ring (around 50-ish) in a compact double crankset (43.5mm chainline).

Shimano CX-70 is a popular choice - as Bill points out - and it's designed 
around a 46-30 compact crankset. The new GRX FD would probably work as well 
since that is designed for a 46-29 compact crankset, though I don't have 
direct experience with it.

I like to run a mountain triple (the venerable Shimano Deore M-591) with 
the 38-24 as well the 34-24 (low-low) and the 42-26 (Sugino XD600 with a 
chainguard as outer ring) from Riv. I have also used a Shimano Sora FD-3030 
with good success:

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/FD-R3030-B.html
 
--Ed C.

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:26:47 PM UTC-7 Erik wrote:

> I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked up 
> from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together beautifully, 
> until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano 105-5700 for a 
> 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 38 / 24.  The cage 
> on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct spacing between 
> the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up hitting the chain 
> stay when I shift.  
>
> Does anyone else on here have a similar set up with a wide / low double? 
>  If so, what front derailleur do you use?  For the life of me, I can't 
> figure out a suitable replacement for the 105 and am dreading trying to 
> find one for sale anywhere.
>
> Any thoughts or advice?
>

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Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[David Person]

Adam, good choice on the Barlow Pass tires.  I ran a set on my Hillborne 
for 5 years till the rear wore out this past fall.  I switched to 
Snoqualmie Pass tires for a bit more cush.  I have them mounted on Dyad 
rims and they measure 41mm wide, where the BPs measured 35mm, if I 
remember.  Tried a pair of Oracle Ridge but they were a bit on the large 
size.  They would fit but hard to get the rear wheel on and off.  In my 
opinion, the Snoqualmies ride/handle/respond very much like the Barlows 
with a bit more tire volume to soak up the bumps.  Not an answer to the 
exact question you were asking, but wanted to congratulate you on your tire 
choice and give my two cents.


On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:17:03 PM UTC-7 philipr...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> So we're back to #1 - light tires & tubes. Followed by #2 - light rims & 
> spokes.
>
> No one else want to chime in on friction? How much slip does say, a 
> semi-knobby tire like the Cazadero allow compared to the RH & is that 
> noticeable when accelerating?
>
> Inboard brakes are a thing of beauty & danger, I believe the Lotus 72 F1 
> car may have been the 1st to implement. The problem has been the load on 
> the half shaft which, according to the inquest, the associated failure of 
> that was the cause of Rindt's fatal crash in that car.
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 3:07:59 PM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> The comparison to motor vehicle unsprung weight may parallel bicyclists' 
>> focus on wheel and tire weight but available horsepower of even weak 
>> engines makes all but the most competitive motor vehicles seem sloppy with 
>> their unsprung, wheel and tire weights comparatively. 
>>
>> You on your bike won't make enough horsepower to overcome much weight 
>> increases by anything distant from the hub. The greatest improvement to 
>> angular acceleration (increasing a wheels rotating speed) will be at the 
>> greatest distance from the axle; tires/tubes. Smaller changes in weight net 
>> larger feelings of better response at that distant component, tubes come in 
>> second, rim choice third. Spokes are next and the hubs may be eclipsed by 
>> having lighter pedals. Light wheels, on the unsprung weight topic, do seem 
>> to ride nicer because they don't require such impact to move up and down 
>> over surface irregularities. Heavy rimmed wheels cancel benefits of light 
>> tires in my very subjective experiments. 
>>
>> Total weight of a bike can affect what you've felt as a difference 
>> between your two bikes but the fastest way to improve the ride of a bike to 
>> me is a wheel made of a light rim/spokes and a light tire. I ruined the 
>> young woman we mentor by loaning her my Rambouillet's PJW-made wheels for a 
>> long ride. Velocity Synergy rims with 36°, straight gauge spokes, XT hubs 
>> and RH Stampede Pass ELs and light tubes. She is having me work up a price 
>> for a set of responsibly lighter wheels with a dyno hub front as a result. 
>>
>> Some strategies in automotive design to reduce unsprung weight are 
>> elegant. The Alfa Romeo Giulia GT 1600 Junior De Dion rear suspension 
>> removed the brake disc from the unsprung weight by putting them on the 
>> other ends of the half shafts, on either side of the differential. that 
>> carried on in their designs for decades. 
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:41:15 AM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Car & motorcycle racers talk about unsprung weight, in other words the 
>>> weight of the components that the suspension system does not act upon 
>>> (rims, tires, brake calipers etc.). Keeping this number to a minimum is 
>>> critical to building a competitive vehicle as this directly effects 
>>> acceleration & braking performance and cannot be manipulated by suspension 
>>> design. This is consistent with Newton's 2nd law which states that 
>>> Acceleration = Mass/Force.
>>>
>>> To my mind, in hard tail/front bicycle design the tire & tube are that 
>>> suspended component, everything after them is "sprung" by the sidewall 
>>> stiffness & tire pressure (in racing design, tires parameters take priority 
>>> over the rest of the unsprung parts too) so as Patrick Moore says, they are 
>>> the most critical part of the acceleration equation (not the only by any 
>>> means, but the foundation).
>>>
>>> Ignoring the friction component for now and looking at the numbers, a 
>>> Rene Hearse tire set is 1/2 pound lighter than the Cazaderos (125 grams per 
>>> wheel). This doesn't sound like too significant difference on a 30lb bike 
>>> EXCEPT as above, this is unsprung weight which most significantly affects 
>>> acceleration. Put friction back into the equation (the coefficient of that 
>>> between the tire and the pavement is your grip) and consider a tires 
>>> viscosity (how sticky it is), deformability (how much the sidewalls absorb 
>>> your energy input versus transmitting it directly to the road) and 
>>> hysteresis (the speed at 

[RBW] Re: Clem H sizing, availability

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Ha! That jumbo-rosco is one heavi-chevi(ot). 3rd time's the charm! 

Marty



On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:46:37 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
wrote:

> Thanks Marty. Easily the best box art I've received (I'm the 3rd owner) 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/EAcE6bLjfWX43FE57
> -Kai
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:03:18 PM UTC-4 Marty Gierke, 
> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>
>> I'm the one who gave mine up to the bunch - it rode just a bit too big 
>> for me (92pbh) and I have a 59 Clem H now that hits the sweet spot better 
>> than any Riv I've owned. (64 Atlantis, 64 Quickbeam, 60 Bombadil, 63 All 
>> Rounder) I really wanted to like the monster Roscoe, but until you ride it 
>> it's never easy to know for sure. I still feel exclusive with the Clem H 
>> now that step throughs are all the rage, and it might move me in the 
>> direction on N+Zero. For someone with persistent hip pain, I didn't really 
>> notice any difference between a step-through and a swing-around top-tuber - 
>> it's a pain either way. YMMV.
>>
>> Marty
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 9:30:50 AM UTC-4 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>>
>>> Kai, whoa, sorry to hear of the illegal turner but glad you and the 
>>> frame otherwise appear to have come out of it unscathed.  I vaguely recall 
>>> when one popped up for resale here (or maybe I'm just confusing that with 
>>> Will's FYI that one of the pre-sales became available when someone backed 
>>> out?) and was again way behind in seeing it but with 12 in the world 
>>> hopefully my timing is better if one of the remaining 10 ever get released 
>>> to the wild.  Of course, I could always post a WTB in case anyone is 
>>> holding one that's not getting ridden much but I'd need to first sell the 
>>> Clem H to fund it and I'm actually banking on the upcoming Roaduno you 
>>> mentioned was supposedly getting the XXL treatment.  (if all goes well it 
>>> may end up replacing 3 rotating single speeds... though I still haven't 
>>> been able to bring myself to offload any of them and they are different 
>>> enough that I have greatly enjoyed mixing things up.)  Two of the 3 are now 
>>> rebuilt and ready for spring to replace the one I've ridden exclusively the 
>>> past 1.5yrs which will go back into reserve.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Brian Cole
>>> Lawrenceville NJ
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 5:08:12 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Andrew! They're rusting pretty good, even after a clear coat of 
 Penetrol, but strong and regularly carrying 70lb grocery loads on the 
 lower 
 front.
 And Coal Bee Rye Anne, there's 12 in the world. I thought there was 6 
 and I might've spread that rumor, but a recent post of Will's cleared it 
 up. And thanks to Ryan, I've got 2 (A SIXTH OF THE WORLDS SUPPLY) and 
 I 
 can sleep at night because of it. I got run down by an illegal turner that 
 left me flustered and mostly fearful for the fate of the frame, which was 
 fine, but it put the fear in me.
 -Kai
 On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4 Andrew Letton wrote:

> Kai- 
> That is some truly glorious rack and basket work on your Bubbe! Bravo!
> Is it new (hence no rust) or does it have some sort of clearcoat on it?
> cheers,
> Andrew in Sydney
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 10:38:59 AM UTC+10 Abcyclehank wrote:
>
>> I heard some people like the jumbo mountain mixte Rosco so much they 
>> have more than one in their fleet 樂   .
>> Wish I had been that smart...
>>
>> Ryan Hankinson
>> West Michigan
>>
>> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 1:29:55 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's the answer to everything- search the world for one of these 
>>> (the precious, the Rosco Bubbe) and be forever happy- 
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/5UqTJPoisD1FiHJc9  
>>> Doesn't look as steppy throughy as the Clem L, but still gives some 
>>> room, and (risking offense to my fellow Clem 65 owners, sorry folks) 
>>> rides 
>>> better than the Clems.
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 11:15:26 AM UTC-4 Coal Bee Rye Anne 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I am another 65cm H owner... with approx 97-ish pbh, 6'5" height.  
 My seatpost and bar height are extended nearly the same as in Julian's 
 pic 
 except I'm using a vintage B72 saddle which is not as tall has his 
 sprung 
 saddle (flyer/conquest?) which likely accounts for some overall saddle 
 height difference I expect we'd have.

 Sounds like you certainly fall between sizes of 59 and 65H... I 
 forget the specific min/max but recall I was right near the minimum 
 recommended pbh for the 65H.  I almost went with a 59 with the initial 
 Clem 
 release (and was really tempted when the first 59 prototype became a 
 webspecial) 

[RBW] Re: FS: Various bike bits plus clothes and film stuff

[Shawn Granton]

Update: Mojave bottle cage and arm warmers have sold.

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:10:01 PM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:

> Update: Film and bike cap have sold.
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:01:31 AM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:
>
>> Hello, friends! The endless purging of unused items continues. All prices 
>> are USD, and do not include shipping. Shipping will start at $5 USD, 
>> depending on what and how much you get. Local contacless pickup can be 
>> arranged (around Mount Tabor in Portland, Oregon), but you have to pre-pay 
>> first. Payment via PayPal. *Interested? Drop me a line 
>> at urbanadven...@gmail.com and include your ZIP Code so I can sort out 
>> shipping costs or indicate you want local pick-up.*
>>
>> The basket is local pickup only.
>>
>> *Please note that I have sold some items still depicted in the flickr set 
>> below.*
>> *Firstly, bike bits.*
>>
>> *FIVE DOLLAR ITEMS:*
>>
>>- *Green Guru “Clincher” (very) small frame bag.* 50 cubic inch/0.8 
>>litre capacity, velcro straps.
>>- *AXA HR bottle dynamo, left mount. *Typical Euro bottle dynamo, 
>>6V/3W output, with two outputs, meaning you can wire both front and rear 
>>light from the dynamo, rather than having to wire rear light to front 
>>light. Nothing functionally wrong with this dynamo, but the spring that 
>>keeps the bottle in the “off” position, away from the tire, has weakened. 
>>So the bottle can switch to “on” if you hit a large-enough bump. No 
>>mounting hardware included.
>>- *Cadet old school cyclometer. *It’s the “clicky” type that mounts 
>>to front hub. No mounting hardware included.
>>
>> *FIFTEEN DOLLAR ITEMS:*
>>
>>- *Wald “Clem” style basket. *This basket will hold a Rivendell 
>>Sackville CLEMBASACK just fine. It’s the more modern Wald basket, with a 
>>nice big and long clamp attachment to the bars and adjustable struts. Top 
>>opening of basket measures 14″ x 9″, tapers to 12″ x 7″ at the bottom. 7″ 
>>deep. *LOCAL PICKUP ONLY FOR THE BASKET.*
>>
>> *TWENTY DOLLAR ITEMS:*
>>
>>- *Velo Orange “Mojave” water bottle cage. *Designed to fit 32oz 
>>Nalgene bottles, 32 oz insulated Klean Kanteen bottles, and 40oz Klean 
>>Kanteen stainless steel bottles. The mounting tab has positions for five 
>>bolts, so you can use it with a standard “two bolt” braze-on area, or 
>> three 
>>bolt mount too. Never mounted, still in bag.
>>- *Black Star Bags Hip Pouch bag. *Aka “fanny pack”. Cordura outer 
>>with vinyl interior, water-resistant. 10″ wide x 6″ tall x 2.5″ deep. 
>> Comes 
>>with adjustable belt.
>>
>> *Clothing, prices as marked:*
>>
>>- *Patagonia Organic Cotton short sleeve button up shirt, size L. *NIce 
>>light gauzy cotton weave, great for summer. Well loved–two small holes on 
>>right side by pocket. *$10*
>>- *Plaid wool bike cap. *Fits like a large. Made by Drew in Hood 
>>River. *$10*
>>- *Smartwool merino sleeves, size L/XL. $10*
>>- *Pendleton wool sweater vest, size XL. $15*
>>- *Nau wool/poly hoodie, size XL. $25*
>>- *Pendleton zip up wool “board” shirt jacket, size L. *Yeah, that 
>>classic surfing Pendleton pattern as seen on Beach Boys record covers. 
>>*$30*
>>
>> *Camera/Film Stuff:*
>>
>>- *49mm Promaster filters. *Have a Sepia tone filter and FL-D filter. *$5 
>>each or both for $8.*
>>- *Arista EDU/Fomapan 400 black and white film. *(Arista is Fomapan.) 
>>Five rolls total, two 24 exposure rolls and three 36. Cold stored. 
>>Expiration dates range from 2022 to 2023. *$15 for all of them.*
>>
>> Photos of all items in this flickr album:
>>
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/albums/72157718562688556
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Shawn
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Philip Barrett]

So we're back to #1 - light tires & tubes. Followed by #2 - light rims & 
spokes.

No one else want to chime in on friction? How much slip does say, a 
semi-knobby tire like the Cazadero allow compared to the RH & is that 
noticeable when accelerating?

Inboard brakes are a thing of beauty & danger, I believe the Lotus 72 F1 
car may have been the 1st to implement. The problem has been the load on 
the half shaft which, according to the inquest, the associated failure of 
that was the cause of Rindt's fatal crash in that car.
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 3:07:59 PM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:

> The comparison to motor vehicle unsprung weight may parallel bicyclists' 
> focus on wheel and tire weight but available horsepower of even weak 
> engines makes all but the most competitive motor vehicles seem sloppy with 
> their unsprung, wheel and tire weights comparatively. 
>
> You on your bike won't make enough horsepower to overcome much weight 
> increases by anything distant from the hub. The greatest improvement to 
> angular acceleration (increasing a wheels rotating speed) will be at the 
> greatest distance from the axle; tires/tubes. Smaller changes in weight net 
> larger feelings of better response at that distant component, tubes come in 
> second, rim choice third. Spokes are next and the hubs may be eclipsed by 
> having lighter pedals. Light wheels, on the unsprung weight topic, do seem 
> to ride nicer because they don't require such impact to move up and down 
> over surface irregularities. Heavy rimmed wheels cancel benefits of light 
> tires in my very subjective experiments. 
>
> Total weight of a bike can affect what you've felt as a difference between 
> your two bikes but the fastest way to improve the ride of a bike to me is a 
> wheel made of a light rim/spokes and a light tire. I ruined the young woman 
> we mentor by loaning her my Rambouillet's PJW-made wheels for a long ride. 
> Velocity Synergy rims with 36°, straight gauge spokes, XT hubs and RH 
> Stampede Pass ELs and light tubes. She is having me work up a price for a 
> set of responsibly lighter wheels with a dyno hub front as a result. 
>
> Some strategies in automotive design to reduce unsprung weight are 
> elegant. The Alfa Romeo Giulia GT 1600 Junior De Dion rear suspension 
> removed the brake disc from the unsprung weight by putting them on the 
> other ends of the half shafts, on either side of the differential. that 
> carried on in their designs for decades. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:41:15 AM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Car & motorcycle racers talk about unsprung weight, in other words the 
>> weight of the components that the suspension system does not act upon 
>> (rims, tires, brake calipers etc.). Keeping this number to a minimum is 
>> critical to building a competitive vehicle as this directly effects 
>> acceleration & braking performance and cannot be manipulated by suspension 
>> design. This is consistent with Newton's 2nd law which states that 
>> Acceleration = Mass/Force.
>>
>> To my mind, in hard tail/front bicycle design the tire & tube are that 
>> suspended component, everything after them is "sprung" by the sidewall 
>> stiffness & tire pressure (in racing design, tires parameters take priority 
>> over the rest of the unsprung parts too) so as Patrick Moore says, they are 
>> the most critical part of the acceleration equation (not the only by any 
>> means, but the foundation).
>>
>> Ignoring the friction component for now and looking at the numbers, a 
>> Rene Hearse tire set is 1/2 pound lighter than the Cazaderos (125 grams per 
>> wheel). This doesn't sound like too significant difference on a 30lb bike 
>> EXCEPT as above, this is unsprung weight which most significantly affects 
>> acceleration. Put friction back into the equation (the coefficient of that 
>> between the tire and the pavement is your grip) and consider a tires 
>> viscosity (how sticky it is), deformability (how much the sidewalls absorb 
>> your energy input versus transmitting it directly to the road) and 
>> hysteresis (the speed at which the deformation of the tire returns to it's 
>> normal shape after deformation) and I think you have most of your answer in 
>> tire science? The Rene Hearse is lighter, most likely less susceptible to 
>> deformation, has faster hysteresis and a tread pattern that offers more 
>> grip.
>>
>> As a note, another 1/3rd or so of a pound can also be saved in switching 
>> to lightweight tubes (which are also susceptible to all the same parameters 
>> as the tires).
>>
>> Now this sounds like a lot of semantics, bicycles are light and the 
>> forces involved (our legs) are weak compared to ICE technology. But it's 
>> exactly because those forces are so weak that small gains in tire 
>> performance become significant. Your tires are actually fairly closely 
>> matched, quality brands, if you move into the word of low end Kendas or 
>> 

Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[ascpgh]

The comparison to motor vehicle unsprung weight may parallel bicyclists' 
focus on wheel and tire weight but available horsepower of even weak 
engines makes all but the most competitive motor vehicles seem sloppy with 
their unsprung, wheel and tire weights comparatively. 

You on your bike won't make enough horsepower to overcome much weight 
increases by anything distant from the hub. The greatest improvement to 
angular acceleration (increasing a wheels rotating speed) will be at the 
greatest distance from the axle; tires/tubes. Smaller changes in weight net 
larger feelings of better response at that distant component, tubes come in 
second, rim choice third. Spokes are next and the hubs may be eclipsed by 
having lighter pedals. Light wheels, on the unsprung weight topic, do seem 
to ride nicer because they don't require such impact to move up and down 
over surface irregularities. Heavy rimmed wheels cancel benefits of light 
tires in my very subjective experiments. 

Total weight of a bike can affect what you've felt as a difference between 
your two bikes but the fastest way to improve the ride of a bike to me is a 
wheel made of a light rim/spokes and a light tire. I ruined the young woman 
we mentor by loaning her my Rambouillet's PJW-made wheels for a long ride. 
Velocity Synergy rims with 36°, straight gauge spokes, XT hubs and RH 
Stampede Pass ELs and light tubes. She is having me work up a price for a 
set of responsibly lighter wheels with a dyno hub front as a result. 

Some strategies in automotive design to reduce unsprung weight are elegant. 
The Alfa Romeo Giulia GT 1600 Junior De Dion rear suspension removed the 
brake disc from the unsprung weight by putting them on the other ends of 
the half shafts, on either side of the differential. that carried on in 
their designs for decades. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:41:15 AM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com wrote:

> Car & motorcycle racers talk about unsprung weight, in other words the 
> weight of the components that the suspension system does not act upon 
> (rims, tires, brake calipers etc.). Keeping this number to a minimum is 
> critical to building a competitive vehicle as this directly effects 
> acceleration & braking performance and cannot be manipulated by suspension 
> design. This is consistent with Newton's 2nd law which states that 
> Acceleration = Mass/Force.
>
> To my mind, in hard tail/front bicycle design the tire & tube are that 
> suspended component, everything after them is "sprung" by the sidewall 
> stiffness & tire pressure (in racing design, tires parameters take priority 
> over the rest of the unsprung parts too) so as Patrick Moore says, they are 
> the most critical part of the acceleration equation (not the only by any 
> means, but the foundation).
>
> Ignoring the friction component for now and looking at the numbers, a Rene 
> Hearse tire set is 1/2 pound lighter than the Cazaderos (125 grams per 
> wheel). This doesn't sound like too significant difference on a 30lb bike 
> EXCEPT as above, this is unsprung weight which most significantly affects 
> acceleration. Put friction back into the equation (the coefficient of that 
> between the tire and the pavement is your grip) and consider a tires 
> viscosity (how sticky it is), deformability (how much the sidewalls absorb 
> your energy input versus transmitting it directly to the road) and 
> hysteresis (the speed at which the deformation of the tire returns to it's 
> normal shape after deformation) and I think you have most of your answer in 
> tire science? The Rene Hearse is lighter, most likely less susceptible to 
> deformation, has faster hysteresis and a tread pattern that offers more 
> grip.
>
> As a note, another 1/3rd or so of a pound can also be saved in switching 
> to lightweight tubes (which are also susceptible to all the same parameters 
> as the tires).
>
> Now this sounds like a lot of semantics, bicycles are light and the forces 
> involved (our legs) are weak compared to ICE technology. But it's exactly 
> because those forces are so weak that small gains in tire performance 
> become significant. Your tires are actually fairly closely matched, quality 
> brands, if you move into the word of low end Kendas or similar, the savings 
> can be in the 2 to 4lb range for a set!
>
> Bear in mind, I'm merely a dilettante at this, the physicists amongst you 
> may well be correcting me on the above. But the theory can be tested at 
> least in perception by swapping the tires & tubes between your bikes?
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 9:08:14 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Also, the Cazaderos have small knobs; this will certainly affect rolling 
>> resistance.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 8:06 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> I've used all sorts of wheel sizes and weights, from just shy of 20" to 
>>> just over 30", and tires ranging from 175 grams to over 900 grams. IME, 
>>> wheel diameter and 

[RBW] Re: FS: Various bike bits plus clothes and film stuff

[Shawn Granton]

Update: Film and bike cap have sold.

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:01:31 AM UTC-7 Shawn Granton wrote:

> Hello, friends! The endless purging of unused items continues. All prices 
> are USD, and do not include shipping. Shipping will start at $5 USD, 
> depending on what and how much you get. Local contacless pickup can be 
> arranged (around Mount Tabor in Portland, Oregon), but you have to pre-pay 
> first. Payment via PayPal. *Interested? Drop me a line 
> at urbanadven...@gmail.com and include your ZIP Code so I can sort out 
> shipping costs or indicate you want local pick-up.*
>
> The basket is local pickup only.
>
> *Please note that I have sold some items still depicted in the flickr set 
> below.*
> *Firstly, bike bits.*
>
> *FIVE DOLLAR ITEMS:*
>
>- *Green Guru “Clincher” (very) small frame bag.* 50 cubic inch/0.8 
>litre capacity, velcro straps.
>- *AXA HR bottle dynamo, left mount. *Typical Euro bottle dynamo, 
>6V/3W output, with two outputs, meaning you can wire both front and rear 
>light from the dynamo, rather than having to wire rear light to front 
>light. Nothing functionally wrong with this dynamo, but the spring that 
>keeps the bottle in the “off” position, away from the tire, has weakened. 
>So the bottle can switch to “on” if you hit a large-enough bump. No 
>mounting hardware included.
>- *Cadet old school cyclometer. *It’s the “clicky” type that mounts to 
>front hub. No mounting hardware included.
>
> *FIFTEEN DOLLAR ITEMS:*
>
>- *Wald “Clem” style basket. *This basket will hold a Rivendell 
>Sackville CLEMBASACK just fine. It’s the more modern Wald basket, with a 
>nice big and long clamp attachment to the bars and adjustable struts. Top 
>opening of basket measures 14″ x 9″, tapers to 12″ x 7″ at the bottom. 7″ 
>deep. *LOCAL PICKUP ONLY FOR THE BASKET.*
>
> *TWENTY DOLLAR ITEMS:*
>
>- *Velo Orange “Mojave” water bottle cage. *Designed to fit 32oz 
>Nalgene bottles, 32 oz insulated Klean Kanteen bottles, and 40oz Klean 
>Kanteen stainless steel bottles. The mounting tab has positions for five 
>bolts, so you can use it with a standard “two bolt” braze-on area, or 
> three 
>bolt mount too. Never mounted, still in bag.
>- *Black Star Bags Hip Pouch bag. *Aka “fanny pack”. Cordura outer 
>with vinyl interior, water-resistant. 10″ wide x 6″ tall x 2.5″ deep. 
> Comes 
>with adjustable belt.
>
> *Clothing, prices as marked:*
>
>- *Patagonia Organic Cotton short sleeve button up shirt, size L. *NIce 
>light gauzy cotton weave, great for summer. Well loved–two small holes on 
>right side by pocket. *$10*
>- *Plaid wool bike cap. *Fits like a large. Made by Drew in Hood 
>River. *$10*
>- *Smartwool merino sleeves, size L/XL. $10*
>- *Pendleton wool sweater vest, size XL. $15*
>- *Nau wool/poly hoodie, size XL. $25*
>- *Pendleton zip up wool “board” shirt jacket, size L. *Yeah, that 
>classic surfing Pendleton pattern as seen on Beach Boys record covers. 
>*$30*
>
> *Camera/Film Stuff:*
>
>- *49mm Promaster filters. *Have a Sepia tone filter and FL-D filter. *$5 
>each or both for $8.*
>- *Arista EDU/Fomapan 400 black and white film. *(Arista is Fomapan.) 
>Five rolls total, two 24 exposure rolls and three 36. Cold stored. 
>Expiration dates range from 2022 to 2023. *$15 for all of them.*
>
> Photos of all items in this flickr album:
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/albums/72157718562688556
>
> Thank you,
>
> Shawn
>

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Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Philip Barrett]

Adam, have you weighed the wheelsets?


On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:52:34 PM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> It is rotating weight that matters for acceleration. I could bore you with 
> a bunch of physics equations or you could Google "rotational inertia" if 
> you are interested - the rotational inertia is a function of the square of 
> the distance from the weight to the axis of rotation (lightweight 
> derailleur jockey wheels don't count for much more that non-rotating weight 
> because of the small radius). Drag racers know it (look at the teeny tiny 
> front wheels and tires on all manner of rear drive drag cars), autocrossers 
> know it (serious autocrossers use the lightest wheels they can find), 
> automobile manufacturers know it (the one commonality of the stock tires 
> that come as standard equipment on most cars is that they are lightweight - 
> better mpg on the EPA test results). Look at a Formula 1 or other racing 
> car's wheels - are they relatively big or small diameter compared to the 
> wheels you see on street cars? - they are small  - they use the smallest 
> wheel they can for the brakes that they use and that the rules allow   - 
> for a given tire diameter, the wheel-tire combination that gives the 
> lightest weight uses the smallest wheel (talking automobile tires here). If 
> you have ever ridden a Bike Friday or similar small wheeled bike, you know 
> how "zippy" they are - smaller, lighter weight wheels.
> Taking 1 lb. off your wheels helps more than taking 1 lb. off your frame 
> (or dumping 1 lb. out of your water bottle).
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:36:48 PM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:11:44 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I think I understand the concept of unsprung weight, but I thought that 
>>> it affected handling, ie lateral forces and their control, and not 
>>> acceleration; wouldn't a vehicle with a very great unsprung weight 
>>> accelerate as fast on a horizontal and straight surface as one with very 
>>> little unsprung weight? I am thinking for example of a bike and rider with 
>>> suspension seatpost and stem, compared to a bike and rider with suspended 
>>> wheels. Would the latter system have an advantage in simple straight line 
>>> acceleration?
>>>
>>> Not that this is not (double negative!!) an interesting conversation!
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, lots more to unsprung weight than just acceleration & my theory in 
>> bicycles is loose as presumably part of the tire would have to be 
>> considered as sprung depending on the construction? Also, the fork, 
>> chainstays & the frame overall will flex (that lateral stiffness all the 
>> bike reviews mention) so we should take that into consideration too. 
>> Especially as Rivendell's penchant for steel (a fairly flexible material) 
>> and long chainstays may impact that more than other designs. The math gets 
>> PhD hard at this point but in the case of the OP the Salsa looks to be of a 
>> similar geometry to the SH so we might be closer to apples to apples there 
>> at least.
>>
>>  For sprung weight the suspension (in whatever form) will absorb some of 
>> the input force as deflection, binding/friction, shock aeration, heat etc. 
>> so there is a disadvantage. The lighter the components acted upon by that 
>> remaining force, the faster they can transmit that into acceleration. Many 
>> modern race series allow some form of suspension lockout to aid quicker 
>> starts ("holeshot" devices), a little Googling has informed me that some 
>> MTB systems offer a similar process. 
>>
>> The overarching conclusion here may also be that no suspension is better 
>> than cheap or badly set up suspension.
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] FS: Various bike bits plus clothes and film stuff

[Shawn Granton]

Hello, friends! The endless purging of unused items continues. All prices 
are USD, and do not include shipping. Shipping will start at $5 USD, 
depending on what and how much you get. Local contacless pickup can be 
arranged (around Mount Tabor in Portland, Oregon), but you have to pre-pay 
first. Payment via PayPal. *Interested? Drop me a line 
at urbanadventurelea...@gmail.com  and 
include your ZIP Code so I can sort out shipping costs or indicate you want 
local pick-up.*

The basket is local pickup only.

*Please note that I have sold some items still depicted in the flickr set 
below.*
*Firstly, bike bits.*

*FIVE DOLLAR ITEMS:*

   - *Green Guru “Clincher” (very) small frame bag.* 50 cubic inch/0.8 
   litre capacity, velcro straps.
   - *AXA HR bottle dynamo, left mount. *Typical Euro bottle dynamo, 6V/3W 
   output, with two outputs, meaning you can wire both front and rear light 
   from the dynamo, rather than having to wire rear light to front light. 
   Nothing functionally wrong with this dynamo, but the spring that keeps the 
   bottle in the “off” position, away from the tire, has weakened. So the 
   bottle can switch to “on” if you hit a large-enough bump. No mounting 
   hardware included.
   - *Cadet old school cyclometer. *It’s the “clicky” type that mounts to 
   front hub. No mounting hardware included.

*FIFTEEN DOLLAR ITEMS:*

   - *Wald “Clem” style basket. *This basket will hold a Rivendell 
   Sackville CLEMBASACK just fine. It’s the more modern Wald basket, with a 
   nice big and long clamp attachment to the bars and adjustable struts. Top 
   opening of basket measures 14″ x 9″, tapers to 12″ x 7″ at the bottom. 7″ 
   deep. *LOCAL PICKUP ONLY FOR THE BASKET.*

*TWENTY DOLLAR ITEMS:*

   - *Velo Orange “Mojave” water bottle cage. *Designed to fit 32oz Nalgene 
   bottles, 32 oz insulated Klean Kanteen bottles, and 40oz Klean Kanteen 
   stainless steel bottles. The mounting tab has positions for five bolts, so 
   you can use it with a standard “two bolt” braze-on area, or three bolt 
   mount too. Never mounted, still in bag.
   - *Black Star Bags Hip Pouch bag. *Aka “fanny pack”. Cordura outer with 
   vinyl interior, water-resistant. 10″ wide x 6″ tall x 2.5″ deep. Comes with 
   adjustable belt.

*Clothing, prices as marked:*
   
   - *Patagonia Organic Cotton short sleeve button up shirt, size L. *NIce 
   light gauzy cotton weave, great for summer. Well loved–two small holes on 
   right side by pocket. *$10*
   - *Plaid wool bike cap. *Fits like a large. Made by Drew in Hood River. 
   *$10*
   - *Smartwool merino sleeves, size L/XL. $10*
   - *Pendleton wool sweater vest, size XL. $15*
   - *Nau wool/poly hoodie, size XL. $25*
   - *Pendleton zip up wool “board” shirt jacket, size L. *Yeah, that 
   classic surfing Pendleton pattern as seen on Beach Boys record covers. 
   *$30*

*Camera/Film Stuff:*
   
   - *49mm Promaster filters. *Have a Sepia tone filter and FL-D filter. *$5 
   each or both for $8.*
   - *Arista EDU/Fomapan 400 black and white film. *(Arista is Fomapan.) 
   Five rolls total, two 24 exposure rolls and three 36. Cold stored. 
   Expiration dates range from 2022 to 2023. *$15 for all of them.*

Photos of all items in this flickr album:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/albums/72157718562688556

Thank you,

Shawn

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Joe Bernard]

That could be the problem, or the chain is indeed too old. I think you 
would need to ride it yourself to sort it out, but any indexing not 
specifically designed for its groups chainrings is always a struggle. She'd 
probably be better off with a friction thumbshifter or bar-end (depending 
on bars) so she has all the control of the shift. 


On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:50:36 AM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:

> I've not ridden it, just shifted it in the bike stand, where it seems to 
> shift fine. On the bike stand it is obviously not under load, which is an 
> important point since it seems the chain is always getting stuck when she 
> is shifting under power. 
>
> The shifter is a Microshift R9, which is indexed. But the downshift simply 
> releases all the tension, (returning the FD to the lowest possible 
> position). I guess maybe that could be an issue since maybe the abrupt 
> action is too violent compared to a smooth human actuated downshift?
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:36:00 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Have you ridden the GF's bike to see what's going on with the shifting? 
>> Is she using a friction shifter or index? If index, it may not work with 
>> what crank. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:13:18 AM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>> I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
>>> place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
>>> worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
>>> it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
>>> chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
>>> chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
>>> it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
>>> but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
>>> thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
>>> life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
>>> chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
>>> would work better with a 10 spd chain?
>>>
>>> On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is 
>>> getting the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any 
>>> shortcuts/tips to this?
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using 
 an 8 or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain 
 bike triple.

 Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash 
 guard and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to 
 be positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to 
 clear the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the 
 chain onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of 
 a 44 t ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" 
 position.

 The matching curves is purely fortuitous.

 On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  
 wrote:

> Patrick that looks great. 
> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and 
> the fd cage.
> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or 
> removing altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you 
> regardless.
>
> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places 
> it a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect 
> to that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
> really high for the middle ring)?
> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
> those, no?
> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
> course)
>
> - Matthew 
> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
> P



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Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[lconley]

It is rotating weight that matters for acceleration. I could bore you with 
a bunch of physics equations or you could Google "rotational inertia" if 
you are interested - the rotational inertia is a function of the square of 
the distance from the weight to the axis of rotation (lightweight 
derailleur jockey wheels don't count for much more that non-rotating weight 
because of the small radius). Drag racers know it (look at the teeny tiny 
front wheels and tires on all manner of rear drive drag cars), autocrossers 
know it (serious autocrossers use the lightest wheels they can find), 
automobile manufacturers know it (the one commonality of the stock tires 
that come as standard equipment on most cars is that they are lightweight - 
better mpg on the EPA test results). Look at a Formula 1 or other racing 
car's wheels - are they relatively big or small diameter compared to the 
wheels you see on street cars? - they are small  - they use the smallest 
wheel they can for the brakes that they use and that the rules allow   - 
for a given tire diameter, the wheel-tire combination that gives the 
lightest weight uses the smallest wheel (talking automobile tires here). If 
you have ever ridden a Bike Friday or similar small wheeled bike, you know 
how "zippy" they are - smaller, lighter weight wheels.
Taking 1 lb. off your wheels helps more than taking 1 lb. off your frame 
(or dumping 1 lb. out of your water bottle).

Laing
Delray Beach FL



On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:36:48 PM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:11:44 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I think I understand the concept of unsprung weight, but I thought that 
>> it affected handling, ie lateral forces and their control, and not 
>> acceleration; wouldn't a vehicle with a very great unsprung weight 
>> accelerate as fast on a horizontal and straight surface as one with very 
>> little unsprung weight? I am thinking for example of a bike and rider with 
>> suspension seatpost and stem, compared to a bike and rider with suspended 
>> wheels. Would the latter system have an advantage in simple straight line 
>> acceleration?
>>
>> Not that this is not (double negative!!) an interesting conversation!
>>
>>
>> Yes, lots more to unsprung weight than just acceleration & my theory in 
> bicycles is loose as presumably part of the tire would have to be 
> considered as sprung depending on the construction? Also, the fork, 
> chainstays & the frame overall will flex (that lateral stiffness all the 
> bike reviews mention) so we should take that into consideration too. 
> Especially as Rivendell's penchant for steel (a fairly flexible material) 
> and long chainstays may impact that more than other designs. The math gets 
> PhD hard at this point but in the case of the OP the Salsa looks to be of a 
> similar geometry to the SH so we might be closer to apples to apples there 
> at least.
>
>  For sprung weight the suspension (in whatever form) will absorb some of 
> the input force as deflection, binding/friction, shock aeration, heat etc. 
> so there is a disadvantage. The lighter the components acted upon by that 
> remaining force, the faster they can transmit that into acceleration. Many 
> modern race series allow some form of suspension lockout to aid quicker 
> starts ("holeshot" devices), a little Googling has informed me that some 
> MTB systems offer a similar process. 
>
> The overarching conclusion here may also be that no suspension is better 
> than cheap or badly set up suspension.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ben Miller]

I've not ridden it, just shifted it in the bike stand, where it seems to 
shift fine. On the bike stand it is obviously not under load, which is an 
important point since it seems the chain is always getting stuck when she 
is shifting under power. 

The shifter is a Microshift R9, which is indexed. But the downshift simply 
releases all the tension, (returning the FD to the lowest possible 
position). I guess maybe that could be an issue since maybe the abrupt 
action is too violent compared to a smooth human actuated downshift?

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:36:00 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Have you ridden the GF's bike to see what's going on with the shifting? Is 
> she using a friction shifter or index? If index, it may not work with what 
> crank. 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:13:18 AM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:
>
>> I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
>> place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
>> worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
>> it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
>> chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
>> chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
>> it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
>> but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
>> thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
>> life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
>> chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
>> would work better with a 10 spd chain?
>>
>> On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is getting 
>> the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any shortcuts/tips to 
>> this?
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using an 
>>> 8 or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain bike 
>>> triple.
>>>
>>> Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash guard 
>>> and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to be 
>>> positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to clear 
>>> the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the chain 
>>> onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of a 44 t 
>>> ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" position.
>>>
>>> The matching curves is purely fortuitous.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Patrick that looks great. 
 Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
 fd cage.
 Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or 
 removing altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you 
 regardless.

 I'm slowly grasping a few things:
 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places 
 it a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect 
 to that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
 really high for the middle ring)?
 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
 pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
 those, no?
 But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
 bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
 course)

 - Matthew 
 "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
 "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
 "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
 "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
 "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
 P
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Clem H sizing, availability

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Thanks Marty. Easily the best box art I've received (I'm the 3rd 
owner) https://photos.app.goo.gl/EAcE6bLjfWX43FE57
-Kai

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:03:18 PM UTC-4 Marty Gierke, Stewartstown 
PA wrote:

> I'm the one who gave mine up to the bunch - it rode just a bit too big for 
> me (92pbh) and I have a 59 Clem H now that hits the sweet spot better than 
> any Riv I've owned. (64 Atlantis, 64 Quickbeam, 60 Bombadil, 63 All 
> Rounder) I really wanted to like the monster Roscoe, but until you ride it 
> it's never easy to know for sure. I still feel exclusive with the Clem H 
> now that step throughs are all the rage, and it might move me in the 
> direction on N+Zero. For someone with persistent hip pain, I didn't really 
> notice any difference between a step-through and a swing-around top-tuber - 
> it's a pain either way. YMMV.
>
> Marty
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 9:30:50 AM UTC-4 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>
>> Kai, whoa, sorry to hear of the illegal turner but glad you and the frame 
>> otherwise appear to have come out of it unscathed.  I vaguely recall when 
>> one popped up for resale here (or maybe I'm just confusing that with Will's 
>> FYI that one of the pre-sales became available when someone backed out?) 
>> and was again way behind in seeing it but with 12 in the world hopefully my 
>> timing is better if one of the remaining 10 ever get released to the wild.  
>> Of course, I could always post a WTB in case anyone is holding one that's 
>> not getting ridden much but I'd need to first sell the Clem H to fund it 
>> and I'm actually banking on the upcoming Roaduno you mentioned was 
>> supposedly getting the XXL treatment.  (if all goes well it may end up 
>> replacing 3 rotating single speeds... though I still haven't been able to 
>> bring myself to offload any of them and they are different enough that I 
>> have greatly enjoyed mixing things up.)  Two of the 3 are now rebuilt and 
>> ready for spring to replace the one I've ridden exclusively the past 1.5yrs 
>> which will go back into reserve.
>>
>> Best,
>> Brian Cole
>> Lawrenceville NJ
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 5:08:12 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Andrew! They're rusting pretty good, even after a clear coat of 
>>> Penetrol, but strong and regularly carrying 70lb grocery loads on the lower 
>>> front.
>>> And Coal Bee Rye Anne, there's 12 in the world. I thought there was 6 
>>> and I might've spread that rumor, but a recent post of Will's cleared it 
>>> up. And thanks to Ryan, I've got 2 (A SIXTH OF THE WORLDS SUPPLY) and I 
>>> can sleep at night because of it. I got run down by an illegal turner that 
>>> left me flustered and mostly fearful for the fate of the frame, which was 
>>> fine, but it put the fear in me.
>>> -Kai
>>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4 Andrew Letton wrote:
>>>
 Kai- 
 That is some truly glorious rack and basket work on your Bubbe! Bravo!
 Is it new (hence no rust) or does it have some sort of clearcoat on it?
 cheers,
 Andrew in Sydney

 On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 10:38:59 AM UTC+10 Abcyclehank wrote:

> I heard some people like the jumbo mountain mixte Rosco so much they 
> have more than one in their fleet 樂   .
> Wish I had been that smart...
>
> Ryan Hankinson
> West Michigan
>
> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 1:29:55 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
> wrote:
>
>> Here's the answer to everything- search the world for one of these 
>> (the precious, the Rosco Bubbe) and be forever happy- 
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/5UqTJPoisD1FiHJc9  
>> Doesn't look as steppy throughy as the Clem L, but still gives some 
>> room, and (risking offense to my fellow Clem 65 owners, sorry folks) 
>> rides 
>> better than the Clems.
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 11:15:26 AM UTC-4 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>>
>>> I am another 65cm H owner... with approx 97-ish pbh, 6'5" height.  
>>> My seatpost and bar height are extended nearly the same as in Julian's 
>>> pic 
>>> except I'm using a vintage B72 saddle which is not as tall has his 
>>> sprung 
>>> saddle (flyer/conquest?) which likely accounts for some overall saddle 
>>> height difference I expect we'd have.
>>>
>>> Sounds like you certainly fall between sizes of 59 and 65H... I 
>>> forget the specific min/max but recall I was right near the minimum 
>>> recommended pbh for the 65H.  I almost went with a 59 with the initial 
>>> Clem 
>>> release (and was really tempted when the first 59 prototype became a 
>>> webspecial) but hesitated having always been stuck with too small off 
>>> the 
>>> shelf bikes and knew I wanted a more upright and comfortable sized bike 
>>> for 
>>> my casual local riding (mixed pavement/gravel/multiuse trails.)  I have 
>>> very little standover clearance 

[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Joe Bernard]

Huh, I guess my Riv memory ain't what it used to be, I seem to have 
transposed Toyo-trained to Toyo-built. I know nothing! 


On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:29:53 AM UTC-7 Jim M. wrote:

> Here's a link to the Wayback Machine for Rivbike in 2010 when the Hunq was 
> new: 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20100430212618/http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713
>
> "The Hunqapillar frame is an interesting mix of materials and 
> co-conspirators. It's made in Taiwan by a team of builders trained by Tetsu 
> Ishigaki, of Toyo. The main tubes are the most expensive steel tubing we 
> could find anywhere --- Japanese Kaisei 8630 heat-treated. The seat and 
> chainstays are excellent Taiwan CrMo. The fork is made in Japan by Tetsu 
> Ishigaki at Toyo."
>
> jim m
> walnut creek, ca
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:04:54 AM UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:
>
>> I could be wrong about this, but does anyone seem to remember reading one 
>> of GP's posts about them using Kasei tubing on those first grey/maroon (and 
>> grey/orange) Hunqs?
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:02:21 AM UTC-4 Charlie R wrote:
>>
>>> I pre-ordered one of the original Hunqapillars.  From what I can recall, 
>>> the Hunquapillar was the first Taiwan built Rivendell bicycle after 
>>> Rivendell left Toyo Japan.  It might have even been a Toyo Taiwan shop.  I 
>>> don't believe any were made by Toyo Japan.   There was a long wait period 
>>> and when I finally received the bicycle, Keven told me it was made by 
>>> Waterford because the order from Taiwan was just taking to long.  I 
>>> remember checking the serial number and it fit with the Waterford scheme.  
>>> Subsequent batches were made in Taiwan at least for a while and might have 
>>> reverted back to Waterford when the batch orders stopped.  
>>>
>>> The bike was the gray maroon colors.  I have a picture somewhere which I 
>>> will try to find.  I will also try to find my original receipt.  A fellow 
>>> list member now owns the bike.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:08:44 AM UTC-4 John M wrote:
>>>
 [image: right dropout.jpg]

 This was from my Hunqapillar with serial number "M14008".  Which I had 
 assumed meant the eighth frame produced in 2014 at Waterford.

 On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:50:11 AM UTC-6 Ed Fausto wrote:

> Hi Joe,  would you know how to determine if the frame is made in Toyo 
> or Waterford?
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:24:42 PM UTC+8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> That's correct, the first ones had orange and are very rare, then 
>> kidney bean, then they went to the green frames. To my knowledge all are 
>> Toyo or Waterford. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:04:29 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what the 
>>> "p" designates?  
>>>
>>> On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, painted 
>>> gray with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump peg 
>>> painted 
>>> gray, with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  The only 
>>> other 
>>> gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color of the 
>>> head 
>>> tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a random 
>>> sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has an orange 
>>> ring 
>>> at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a somewhat sloppy 
>>> white.  
>>>
>>> I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came from 
>>> that first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>>>

 I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very first 
 batch and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  Taiwan?  I've 
 heard 
 of Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first batch 
 was 
 from Taiwan.

 I have four different Hunqapillar brochures, one of which specifies 
 the brand and number of the main tubes, but I have no idea if that 
 brochure 
 applies to mine or not.  

 The serial number format is RIV"P"XXX.  I'm not sure the "P" is 
 actually a "P".  The paint is pretty heavy in that spot.  

 What color is your Hunqapillar?  Mine is gray and orange.  
 On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:01:27 PM UTC-5 Nikko in Oakland 
 wrote:

> Hey y’all, 
>
> Just out of curiosity... How do I know what year and location my 
> Hunq was manufactured in? Any particular details I should look at? Is 
> there 
> a Hunq manufacturing timeline somewhere? 
>
> Nikko in Oakland 



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Re: [RBW] Re: A Cyclist on the English Landscape

[Philip Barrett]

Thanks Patrick, flattery will get you everywhere! I really like your idea 
of the 10 mile photo project, I shall wait until the Platypus is built up 
to embark on that. I just added vitiated to my repertoire too!

I was born in London and we moved around the UK quite a bit, including a 
stint in Brighton ("Hove actually") long before it became a bijou domicile 
fueled by the "Pink Pound" and emigrating to the US 36 years ago in my 
early 20's so I sort of span both countries. Perhaps Roger Waters said it 
best with "hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way?" It's a 
country that has never really defined itself post Empire and two terrible 
wars. Hastings actually featured as a fashionable backdrop to the Edwardian 
hedonism ignoring the world changing around them. The Europe experiment has 
gone terribly wrong and the penchance for a sort of pornography of 
nostalgia worries me somewhat. However we should temper the pity party with 
the fact that the UK still rates #6 for world GDP and boasts many of it's 
billionaires.

And yes, the English climate is the butt of many jokes and like the food, 
tales of it's awfulness are somewhat exaggerated. It does rain a lot, 
however US Mid-West/North East levels of cold are unknown and the summers 
are mild compared to the US in general. A sunny day in the UK countryside 
is hard to match anywhere, if they were more frequent it would be even 
better.

We loved Foyle's War too. Hastings took an awful battering during the Blitz 
as damaged (or scared) bombers would cross the channel and drop their loads 
on the 1st bit of Britain they found before turning for home. Inevitably, 
with a mere 22 miles to travel from the French coast, Hastings bore the 
brunt of that. My Great Aunt claims that as a girl a Luftwaffe plane banked 
so low over the town the pilot waved at her!

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:06:56 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> This is a very good set of photographs, and the author writes very well, 
> too; a rather rare combination in cycling journalism, where bike info is 
> vitiated by stunted outlook and expression. It's rather sad to see the 
> decay of so many English regions that I've read about in their heyday 
> (spent 16 years or so of my long-ago boyhood in ex-Crown colonies and 
> traveling thru Britain on home leave). Paul Theroux's "The Kingdom By The 
> Sea" comes to mind, as do Bill Bryson's "Notes From A Small Island" and 
> "The Road To Little Dribbling" as do years spent reading British novelists 
> and social historians.
>
> Philip: Are you English? Or, how did your parents end up there? (BTW, you 
> don't write badly yourself. And, are the attached photos yours? Well done.)
>
> * All these images were captured within a 10-mile radius of where I live, 
> and most of them much closer than that.*
>
> Here's an idea for a thread: post your photos from rides within a 10 mile 
> radius of your home. It would be very interesting to see a variety of 
> landscapes accessible out the door by bicycle. I'll take some and post 
> them, but be forewarned that rating my photo skills as rudimentary is 
> excessive praise.
>
> And, oh, please! Adjust the size of any photo you paste into an email so 
> that it does not expand the content grossly beyond the normal width of the 
> page; or simply attach instead of pasting.
>
> Philip: You say "nice climate" in the UK is an oxymoron, but isn't English 
> weather at least rather mild overall, compared to the highs and lows and 
> droughts and floods and tornados in North America? I guess a lot of cold 
> rain makes up for a great deal of moderate temperature differentials ...
>
> Patrick "Anglophile" Moore, who has thoroughly enjoyed the "Foyle's War" 
> series set in Hastings.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:44 PM Philip Barrett  
> wrote:
>
>> I saw that today, my parents live about a mile from him! 
>>
>> It's an interesting part of the world blessed with the nicest climate in 
>> the UK (which is a bit like saying it's a light Rivendell). But unlike 
>> other South Coast towns with excellent rail links to London whose 
>> popularity and property values have skyrocketed, poor Hastings is served by 
>> an old, slow & unreliable rail service which eliminates all but the 
>> hardiest commuter from the area. Left over from it's heyday as THE place to 
>> see & be seen are huge Victorian piles, many of which have been broken up 
>> into small apartments and are used for social housing. Not a bad place to 
>> live on the dole, there's beaches and the weather is perfectly tolerable 
>> but obviously the downside to this is the same that can be seen in places 
>> like San Francisco or Portland.
>>
>> However, surrounding Hastings & St. Leonards are some of the most 
>> exclusive retirement towns, Bexhill is one that he mentioned, 8 miles down 
>> the road and and incredibly pricey. Eastbourne is the next major town West 
>> with a similar makeup & if you head East you get to the ancient fishing 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Joe Bernard]

Have you ridden the GF's bike to see what's going on with the shifting? Is 
she using a friction shifter or index? If index, it may not work with what 
crank. 



On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:13:18 AM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:

> I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
> place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
> worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
> it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
> chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
> chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
> it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
> but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
> thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
> life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
> chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
> would work better with a 10 spd chain?
>
> On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is getting 
> the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any shortcuts/tips to 
> this?
>
> Ben
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using an 
>> 8 or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain bike 
>> triple.
>>
>> Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash guard 
>> and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to be 
>> positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to clear 
>> the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the chain 
>> onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of a 44 t 
>> ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" position.
>>
>> The matching curves is purely fortuitous.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick that looks great. 
>>> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
>>> fd cage.
>>> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or removing 
>>> altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you regardless.
>>>
>>> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
>>> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places 
>>> it a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>>>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect 
>>> to that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
>>> really high for the middle ring)?
>>> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
>>> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
>>> those, no?
>>> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
>>> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
>>> course)
>>>
>>> - Matthew 
>>> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
>>> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
>>> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
>>> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
>>> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
>>> P
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Jeremy Till]

Assuming your bike hasn't been repainted or got a custom paint job, I think 
the easiest way to tell it's age is from the paint colors. The first couple 
of runs had the grey main tubes with either "kidney bean" red or orange 
head tubes/accents. The later ones were a green color with cream headtubes. 
The early ones also had more limited tire clearance and maxed out around 
2.1" tires, whereas later ones could fit wider than that. I think the early 
ones used the same fork crowns as the Atlantis at the time while later ones 
got a wider dedicated crown and wider stays.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA


On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 9:01:27 PM UTC-7 Nikko in Oakland wrote:

> Hey y’all,
>
> Just out of curiosity... How do I know what year and location my Hunq was 
> manufactured in? Any particular details I should look at? Is there a Hunq 
> manufacturing timeline somewhere? 
>
> Nikko in Oakland 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ben Miller]

I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
would work better with a 10 spd chain?

On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is getting 
the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any shortcuts/tips to 
this?

Ben

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using an 8 
> or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain bike 
> triple.
>
> Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash guard 
> and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to be 
> positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to clear 
> the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the chain 
> onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of a 44 t 
> ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" position.
>
> The matching curves is purely fortuitous.
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  wrote:
>
>> Patrick that looks great. 
>> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
>> fd cage.
>> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or removing 
>> altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you regardless.
>>
>> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
>> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places it 
>> a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect to 
>> that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
>> really high for the middle ring)?
>> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
>> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
>> those, no?
>> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
>> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
>> course)
>>
>> - Matthew 
>> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
>> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
>> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
>> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
>> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
>> P
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Deore DX derailleurs

[Lucky]

Pending

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:25:39 AM UTC-7 Lucky wrote:

> Cleaning out the parts box. For you retrogrouches (such as myself) I have 
> a matched set of Shimano Deore DX derailleurs. 
> FD M650 and RD M650. Clean with good decals, slight blem in rear 
> derailleur decal. 
> $60 plus actual shipping from Sacramento.
> Wow this pic is blurry! Happy to send a better/different pic on request.
> Off list reply please. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Philip Barrett]

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:11:44 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I think I understand the concept of unsprung weight, but I thought that it 
> affected handling, ie lateral forces and their control, and not 
> acceleration; wouldn't a vehicle with a very great unsprung weight 
> accelerate as fast on a horizontal and straight surface as one with very 
> little unsprung weight? I am thinking for example of a bike and rider with 
> suspension seatpost and stem, compared to a bike and rider with suspended 
> wheels. Would the latter system have an advantage in simple straight line 
> acceleration?
>
> Not that this is not (double negative!!) an interesting conversation!
>
>
> Yes, lots more to unsprung weight than just acceleration & my theory in 
bicycles is loose as presumably part of the tire would have to be 
considered as sprung depending on the construction? Also, the fork, 
chainstays & the frame overall will flex (that lateral stiffness all the 
bike reviews mention) so we should take that into consideration too. 
Especially as Rivendell's penchant for steel (a fairly flexible material) 
and long chainstays may impact that more than other designs. The math gets 
PhD hard at this point but in the case of the OP the Salsa looks to be of a 
similar geometry to the SH so we might be closer to apples to apples there 
at least.

 For sprung weight the suspension (in whatever form) will absorb some of 
the input force as deflection, binding/friction, shock aeration, heat etc. 
so there is a disadvantage. The lighter the components acted upon by that 
remaining force, the faster they can transmit that into acceleration. Many 
modern race series allow some form of suspension lockout to aid quicker 
starts ("holeshot" devices), a little Googling has informed me that some 
MTB systems offer a similar process. 

The overarching conclusion here may also be that no suspension is better 
than cheap or badly set up suspension.


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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Chris L]

Thanks for posting that!   I remember reading it way back when, but I 
didn't have my bike at that time and didn't try to match those specs to any 
particular Hunqapillar.

The first section of that link is almost word-for-word, the big Hunqapillar 
brochure I have.  I never knew where in the Hunqapillar time-frame that 
brochure came from and whether it applied to early models or middle 
models.  I have three others that are just updates on the progress of the 
frame.

So, it sounds like mine was made in Taiwan, with heat treated main tubes 
and chainstays and a Japanese fork.  That's nice to know.  

I've been wanting to try RH's 700 x 55 Antelope Hill tires and when I went 
to order a day or two ago, they were already out of stock.  I've got WTB 
Nine Lines on it right now and enjoy them, even though I'm 100% pavement 
and grass, but the Hunqapillar just looks so RIGHT with knobbies that I 
might just order the new RH 700 x 55 knobbies.  

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:29:53 AM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:

> Here's a link to the Wayback Machine for Rivbike in 2010 when the Hunq was 
> new: 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20100430212618/http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713
>
> "The Hunqapillar frame is an interesting mix of materials and 
> co-conspirators. It's made in Taiwan by a team of builders trained by Tetsu 
> Ishigaki, of Toyo. The main tubes are the most expensive steel tubing we 
> could find anywhere --- Japanese Kaisei 8630 heat-treated. The seat and 
> chainstays are excellent Taiwan CrMo. The fork is made in Japan by Tetsu 
> Ishigaki at Toyo."
>
> jim m
> walnut creek, ca
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:04:54 AM UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:
>
>> I could be wrong about this, but does anyone seem to remember reading one 
>> of GP's posts about them using Kasei tubing on those first grey/maroon (and 
>> grey/orange) Hunqs?
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:02:21 AM UTC-4 Charlie R wrote:
>>
>>> I pre-ordered one of the original Hunqapillars.  From what I can recall, 
>>> the Hunquapillar was the first Taiwan built Rivendell bicycle after 
>>> Rivendell left Toyo Japan.  It might have even been a Toyo Taiwan shop.  I 
>>> don't believe any were made by Toyo Japan.   There was a long wait period 
>>> and when I finally received the bicycle, Keven told me it was made by 
>>> Waterford because the order from Taiwan was just taking to long.  I 
>>> remember checking the serial number and it fit with the Waterford scheme.  
>>> Subsequent batches were made in Taiwan at least for a while and might have 
>>> reverted back to Waterford when the batch orders stopped.  
>>>
>>> The bike was the gray maroon colors.  I have a picture somewhere which I 
>>> will try to find.  I will also try to find my original receipt.  A fellow 
>>> list member now owns the bike.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:08:44 AM UTC-4 John M wrote:
>>>
 [image: right dropout.jpg]

 This was from my Hunqapillar with serial number "M14008".  Which I had 
 assumed meant the eighth frame produced in 2014 at Waterford.

 On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:50:11 AM UTC-6 Ed Fausto wrote:

> Hi Joe,  would you know how to determine if the frame is made in Toyo 
> or Waterford?
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:24:42 PM UTC+8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> That's correct, the first ones had orange and are very rare, then 
>> kidney bean, then they went to the green frames. To my knowledge all are 
>> Toyo or Waterford. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:04:29 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what the 
>>> "p" designates?  
>>>
>>> On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, painted 
>>> gray with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump peg 
>>> painted 
>>> gray, with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  The only 
>>> other 
>>> gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color of the 
>>> head 
>>> tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a random 
>>> sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has an orange 
>>> ring 
>>> at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a somewhat sloppy 
>>> white.  
>>>
>>> I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came from 
>>> that first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>>>

 I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very first 
 batch and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  Taiwan?  I've 
 heard 
 of Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first batch 
 was 
 from Taiwan.

 I have four different Hunqapillar brochures, one of which specifies 
 the 

[RBW] Race Face Chester pedals have been SOLD!!!!

[Patrick Moore]

[You are just too late...]

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Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Patrick Moore]

I think I understand the concept of unsprung weight, but I thought that it
affected handling, ie lateral forces and their control, and not
acceleration; wouldn't a vehicle with a very great unsprung weight
accelerate as fast on a horizontal and straight surface as one with very
little unsprung weight? I am thinking for example of a bike and rider with
suspension seatpost and stem, compared to a bike and rider with suspended
wheels. Would the latter system have an advantage in simple straight line
acceleration?

Not that this is not (double negative!!) an interesting conversation!

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 9:41 AM Philip Barrett 
wrote:

> Car & motorcycle racers talk about unsprung weight, in other words the
> weight of the components that the suspension system does not act upon
> (rims, tires, brake calipers etc.). Keeping this number to a minimum is
> critical to building a competitive vehicle as this directly effects
> acceleration & braking performance and cannot be manipulated by suspension
> design. This is consistent with Newton's 2nd law which states that
> Acceleration = Mass/Force.
>
> To my mind, in hard tail/front bicycle design the tire & tube are that
> suspended component, everything after them is "sprung" by the sidewall
> stiffness & tire pressure (in racing design, tires parameters take priority
> over the rest of the unsprung parts too) so as Patrick Moore says, they are
> the most critical part of the acceleration equation (not the only by any
> means, but the foundation).
>
> Ignoring the friction component for now and looking at the numbers, a Rene
> Hearse tire set is 1/2 pound lighter than the Cazaderos (125 grams per
> wheel). This doesn't sound like too significant difference on a 30lb bike
> EXCEPT as above, this is unsprung weight which most significantly affects
> acceleration. Put friction back into the equation (the coefficient of that
> between the tire and the pavement is your grip) and consider a tires
> viscosity (how sticky it is), deformability (how much the sidewalls absorb
> your energy input versus transmitting it directly to the road) and
> hysteresis (the speed at which the deformation of the tire returns to it's
> normal shape after deformation) and I think you have most of your answer in
> tire science? The Rene Hearse is lighter, most likely less susceptible to
> deformation, has faster hysteresis and a tread pattern that offers more
> grip.
>
> As a note, another 1/3rd or so of a pound can also be saved in switching
> to lightweight tubes (which are also susceptible to all the same parameters
> as the tires).
>
> Now this sounds like a lot of semantics, bicycles are light and the forces
> involved (our legs) are weak compared to ICE technology. But it's exactly
> because those forces are so weak that small gains in tire performance
> become significant. Your tires are actually fairly closely matched, quality
> brands, if you move into the word of low end Kendas or similar, the savings
> can be in the 2 to 4lb range for a set!
>
> Bear in mind, I'm merely a dilettante at this, the physicists amongst you
> may well be correcting me on the above. But the theory can be tested at
> least in perception by swapping the tires & tubes between your bikes?
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 9:08:14 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Also, the Cazaderos have small knobs; this will certainly affect rolling
>> resistance.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 8:06 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> I've used all sorts of wheel sizes and weights, from just shy of 20" to
>>> just over 30", and tires ranging from 175 grams to over 900 grams. IME,
>>> wheel diameter and tire weight affect the ride far less than tire quality
>>> (supple, light casing) except on hills, when at least in the extreme -- in
>>> my case, 800 gram rim and 800 gram tire + 200-250 gram tube; the rim and
>>> the tire were the "lite" models! -- you certainly can feel a difference
>>> climbing over a sub 175 gram tire, 360 gram rim, and 70 gram tube,
>>> especially if the overall wheel diameters differ by about 5".
>>>
>>> One of my "plane-y-est" bikes is that Matthews dirt road bike with 700C
>>> X 60 tires. Granted that the wheels are quite light for their size (29 1/2"
>>> tall, 60 mm wide, Velocity Blunt SSs, Big Ones), but the bike just feels
>>> easier to pedal in a given gear in given conditions; at least as good as my
>>> bikes with much lighter wheels. On the flats. Climbing, the light-wheel
>>> bikes feel faster.
>>>
>>> All that said, good quality light wheels and especially top quality
>>> tires really do affect the pleasure of the ride.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Adam  wrote:
>>>
 Hi all, hoping to get some thoughts on the role of wheels in
 acceleration and climbing.

 I recently picked up my first Riv (Hillborne) and am running Dyads and
 Barlow Pass tires. Among other things, I'm amazed at the difference in
 acceleration, speed, and particularly climbing vs my 

[RBW] Re: Clem H sizing, availability

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

I'm the one who gave mine up to the bunch - it rode just a bit too big for 
me (92pbh) and I have a 59 Clem H now that hits the sweet spot better than 
any Riv I've owned. (64 Atlantis, 64 Quickbeam, 60 Bombadil, 63 All 
Rounder) I really wanted to like the monster Roscoe, but until you ride it 
it's never easy to know for sure. I still feel exclusive with the Clem H 
now that step throughs are all the rage, and it might move me in the 
direction on N+Zero. For someone with persistent hip pain, I didn't really 
notice any difference between a step-through and a swing-around top-tuber - 
it's a pain either way. YMMV.

Marty

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 9:30:50 AM UTC-4 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:

> Kai, whoa, sorry to hear of the illegal turner but glad you and the frame 
> otherwise appear to have come out of it unscathed.  I vaguely recall when 
> one popped up for resale here (or maybe I'm just confusing that with Will's 
> FYI that one of the pre-sales became available when someone backed out?) 
> and was again way behind in seeing it but with 12 in the world hopefully my 
> timing is better if one of the remaining 10 ever get released to the wild.  
> Of course, I could always post a WTB in case anyone is holding one that's 
> not getting ridden much but I'd need to first sell the Clem H to fund it 
> and I'm actually banking on the upcoming Roaduno you mentioned was 
> supposedly getting the XXL treatment.  (if all goes well it may end up 
> replacing 3 rotating single speeds... though I still haven't been able to 
> bring myself to offload any of them and they are different enough that I 
> have greatly enjoyed mixing things up.)  Two of the 3 are now rebuilt and 
> ready for spring to replace the one I've ridden exclusively the past 1.5yrs 
> which will go back into reserve.
>
> Best,
> Brian Cole
> Lawrenceville NJ
>
>  
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 5:08:12 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Andrew! They're rusting pretty good, even after a clear coat of 
>> Penetrol, but strong and regularly carrying 70lb grocery loads on the lower 
>> front.
>> And Coal Bee Rye Anne, there's 12 in the world. I thought there was 6 and 
>> I might've spread that rumor, but a recent post of Will's cleared it up. 
>> And thanks to Ryan, I've got 2 (A SIXTH OF THE WORLDS SUPPLY) and I can 
>> sleep at night because of it. I got run down by an illegal turner that left 
>> me flustered and mostly fearful for the fate of the frame, which was fine, 
>> but it put the fear in me.
>> -Kai
>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4 Andrew Letton wrote:
>>
>>> Kai- 
>>> That is some truly glorious rack and basket work on your Bubbe! Bravo!
>>> Is it new (hence no rust) or does it have some sort of clearcoat on it?
>>> cheers,
>>> Andrew in Sydney
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 10:38:59 AM UTC+10 Abcyclehank wrote:
>>>
 I heard some people like the jumbo mountain mixte Rosco so much they 
 have more than one in their fleet 樂   .
 Wish I had been that smart...

 Ryan Hankinson
 West Michigan

 On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 1:29:55 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
 wrote:

> Here's the answer to everything- search the world for one of these 
> (the precious, the Rosco Bubbe) and be forever happy- 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/5UqTJPoisD1FiHJc9  
> Doesn't look as steppy throughy as the Clem L, but still gives some 
> room, and (risking offense to my fellow Clem 65 owners, sorry folks) 
> rides 
> better than the Clems.
> -Kai
>
> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 11:15:26 AM UTC-4 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>
>> I am another 65cm H owner... with approx 97-ish pbh, 6'5" height.  My 
>> seatpost and bar height are extended nearly the same as in Julian's pic 
>> except I'm using a vintage B72 saddle which is not as tall has his 
>> sprung 
>> saddle (flyer/conquest?) which likely accounts for some overall saddle 
>> height difference I expect we'd have.
>>
>> Sounds like you certainly fall between sizes of 59 and 65H... I 
>> forget the specific min/max but recall I was right near the minimum 
>> recommended pbh for the 65H.  I almost went with a 59 with the initial 
>> Clem 
>> release (and was really tempted when the first 59 prototype became a 
>> webspecial) but hesitated having always been stuck with too small off 
>> the 
>> shelf bikes and knew I wanted a more upright and comfortable sized bike 
>> for 
>> my casual local riding (mixed pavement/gravel/multiuse trails.)  I have 
>> very little standover clearance with the 65 but once I'm in the saddle 
>> I'm 
>> perfectly content and couldn't imagine wanting to go smaller.  I've 
>> swapped 
>> from 55cm Bosco to Jones Loop(660mm 2.5 Riser) to ChocoMoose like Julian 
>> shows and now have a regular Bullmoose installed. However, if I did a 
>> little more rough 

Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Philip Barrett]

Car & motorcycle racers talk about unsprung weight, in other words the 
weight of the components that the suspension system does not act upon 
(rims, tires, brake calipers etc.). Keeping this number to a minimum is 
critical to building a competitive vehicle as this directly effects 
acceleration & braking performance and cannot be manipulated by suspension 
design. This is consistent with Newton's 2nd law which states that 
Acceleration = Mass/Force.

To my mind, in hard tail/front bicycle design the tire & tube are that 
suspended component, everything after them is "sprung" by the sidewall 
stiffness & tire pressure (in racing design, tires parameters take priority 
over the rest of the unsprung parts too) so as Patrick Moore says, they are 
the most critical part of the acceleration equation (not the only by any 
means, but the foundation).

Ignoring the friction component for now and looking at the numbers, a Rene 
Hearse tire set is 1/2 pound lighter than the Cazaderos (125 grams per 
wheel). This doesn't sound like too significant difference on a 30lb bike 
EXCEPT as above, this is unsprung weight which most significantly affects 
acceleration. Put friction back into the equation (the coefficient of that 
between the tire and the pavement is your grip) and consider a tires 
viscosity (how sticky it is), deformability (how much the sidewalls absorb 
your energy input versus transmitting it directly to the road) and 
hysteresis (the speed at which the deformation of the tire returns to it's 
normal shape after deformation) and I think you have most of your answer in 
tire science? The Rene Hearse is lighter, most likely less susceptible to 
deformation, has faster hysteresis and a tread pattern that offers more 
grip.

As a note, another 1/3rd or so of a pound can also be saved in switching to 
lightweight tubes (which are also susceptible to all the same parameters as 
the tires).

Now this sounds like a lot of semantics, bicycles are light and the forces 
involved (our legs) are weak compared to ICE technology. But it's exactly 
because those forces are so weak that small gains in tire performance 
become significant. Your tires are actually fairly closely matched, quality 
brands, if you move into the word of low end Kendas or similar, the savings 
can be in the 2 to 4lb range for a set!

Bear in mind, I'm merely a dilettante at this, the physicists amongst you 
may well be correcting me on the above. But the theory can be tested at 
least in perception by swapping the tires & tubes between your bikes?




On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 9:08:14 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Also, the Cazaderos have small knobs; this will certainly affect rolling 
> resistance.
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 8:06 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> I've used all sorts of wheel sizes and weights, from just shy of 20" to 
>> just over 30", and tires ranging from 175 grams to over 900 grams. IME, 
>> wheel diameter and tire weight affect the ride far less than tire quality 
>> (supple, light casing) except on hills, when at least in the extreme -- in 
>> my case, 800 gram rim and 800 gram tire + 200-250 gram tube; the rim and 
>> the tire were the "lite" models! -- you certainly can feel a difference 
>> climbing over a sub 175 gram tire, 360 gram rim, and 70 gram tube, 
>> especially if the overall wheel diameters differ by about 5".
>>
>> One of my "plane-y-est" bikes is that Matthews dirt road bike with 700C X 
>> 60 tires. Granted that the wheels are quite light for their size (29 1/2" 
>> tall, 60 mm wide, Velocity Blunt SSs, Big Ones), but the bike just feels 
>> easier to pedal in a given gear in given conditions; at least as good as my 
>> bikes with much lighter wheels. On the flats. Climbing, the light-wheel 
>> bikes feel faster.
>>
>> All that said, good quality light wheels and especially top quality tires 
>> really do affect the pleasure of the ride.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Adam  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, hoping to get some thoughts on the role of wheels in 
>>> acceleration and climbing.
>>>
>>> I recently picked up my first Riv (Hillborne) and am running Dyads and 
>>> Barlow Pass tires. Among other things, I'm amazed at the difference in 
>>> acceleration, speed, and particularly climbing vs my other bike, which is a 
>>> pretty heavy Salsa Marrakesh with stock wheels (WTB sx19 and Shimano m475 
>>> hubs) and Cazaderos.
>>>
>>> I'm not necessarily jumping to replace the Marrakesh's wheels ATM, but I 
>>> am curious whether anyone has thoughts on whether or not that's likely the 
>>> difference I'm feeling in acceleration and speed?
>>>
>>> There's definitely a substantial weight difference between the two 
>>> builds, but I've loaded up the Sam a few times and it's still way quicker. 
>>> I'd just swap the wheels, but the Marrakesh's are disc.
>>>
>>> thoughts?
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe 

[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Jim M.]

Here's a link to the Wayback Machine for Rivbike in 2010 when the Hunq was 
new: 
https://web.archive.org/web/20100430212618/http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713

"The Hunqapillar frame is an interesting mix of materials and 
co-conspirators. It's made in Taiwan by a team of builders trained by Tetsu 
Ishigaki, of Toyo. The main tubes are the most expensive steel tubing we 
could find anywhere --- Japanese Kaisei 8630 heat-treated. The seat and 
chainstays are excellent Taiwan CrMo. The fork is made in Japan by Tetsu 
Ishigaki at Toyo."

jim m
walnut creek, ca

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:04:54 AM UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:

> I could be wrong about this, but does anyone seem to remember reading one 
> of GP's posts about them using Kasei tubing on those first grey/maroon (and 
> grey/orange) Hunqs?
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:02:21 AM UTC-4 Charlie R wrote:
>
>> I pre-ordered one of the original Hunqapillars.  From what I can recall, 
>> the Hunquapillar was the first Taiwan built Rivendell bicycle after 
>> Rivendell left Toyo Japan.  It might have even been a Toyo Taiwan shop.  I 
>> don't believe any were made by Toyo Japan.   There was a long wait period 
>> and when I finally received the bicycle, Keven told me it was made by 
>> Waterford because the order from Taiwan was just taking to long.  I 
>> remember checking the serial number and it fit with the Waterford scheme.  
>> Subsequent batches were made in Taiwan at least for a while and might have 
>> reverted back to Waterford when the batch orders stopped.  
>>
>> The bike was the gray maroon colors.  I have a picture somewhere which I 
>> will try to find.  I will also try to find my original receipt.  A fellow 
>> list member now owns the bike.
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:08:44 AM UTC-4 John M wrote:
>>
>>> [image: right dropout.jpg]
>>>
>>> This was from my Hunqapillar with serial number "M14008".  Which I had 
>>> assumed meant the eighth frame produced in 2014 at Waterford.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:50:11 AM UTC-6 Ed Fausto wrote:
>>>
 Hi Joe,  would you know how to determine if the frame is made in Toyo 
 or Waterford?

 On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:24:42 PM UTC+8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That's correct, the first ones had orange and are very rare, then 
> kidney bean, then they went to the green frames. To my knowledge all are 
> Toyo or Waterford. 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:04:29 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>
>> I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what the 
>> "p" designates?  
>>
>> On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, painted 
>> gray with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump peg 
>> painted 
>> gray, with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  The only 
>> other 
>> gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color of the 
>> head 
>> tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a random 
>> sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has an orange 
>> ring 
>> at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a somewhat sloppy 
>> white.  
>>
>> I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came from 
>> that first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very first 
>>> batch and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  Taiwan?  I've 
>>> heard 
>>> of Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first batch 
>>> was 
>>> from Taiwan.
>>>
>>> I have four different Hunqapillar brochures, one of which specifies 
>>> the brand and number of the main tubes, but I have no idea if that 
>>> brochure 
>>> applies to mine or not.  
>>>
>>> The serial number format is RIV"P"XXX.  I'm not sure the "P" is 
>>> actually a "P".  The paint is pretty heavy in that spot.  
>>>
>>> What color is your Hunqapillar?  Mine is gray and orange.  
>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:01:27 PM UTC-5 Nikko in Oakland 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey y’all, 

 Just out of curiosity... How do I know what year and location my 
 Hunq was manufactured in? Any particular details I should look at? Is 
 there 
 a Hunq manufacturing timeline somewhere? 

 Nikko in Oakland 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] FS: Deore DX derailleurs

[luckyturnip]

Cleaning out the parts box. For you retrogrouches (such as myself) I have a 
matched set of Shimano Deore DX derailleurs. 
FD M650 and RD M650. Clean with good decals, slight blem in rear derailleur 
decal. 
$60 plus actual shipping from Sacramento.
Wow this pic is blurry! Happy to send a better/different pic on request.
Off list reply please. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

[Bones]

I never get tired of looking at that bike. I had my Appaloosa set up in a 
very similar fashion. I am seldom able to leave town these days but I'm 
glad some of you folks are living my dream!

Bones

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 5:13:32 AM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:

> Hunq on tour in Japan.
> [image: HunqKyushu.jpeg]
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 6:37:56 AM UTC+9 Ray Evans wrote:
>
>> Soma-Riv San Marcos v2 on the bluffs at More Mesa, Santa Barbara
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 12:20 PM JRStern11 via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jason, great to see how much you love that bike.  
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 12:38 PM, Jason Fuller  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Joel - cheers!  I'm at around 1550 km on the Bombadil odometer now, 
>>> which surpasses how much mileage I put on the Clem by 400 km - and in half 
>>> the time!
>>>
>>> JS - They are XTR M980 cranks, apparently the last 104 BCD version 
>>> before going to the non-symmetric bolt pattern. I bought the matching outer 
>>> ring on closeout from Universal but turns out I need extra long chainring 
>>> bolts to use it, so it remains in the parts bin :)   
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 4 April 2021 at 15:41:14 UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:
>>>

 Jason, what is that crank you're using? 
 I've seen it on a few bikes and have been curious what it is.
 JS
 On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 3:00:49 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Ol' Bomby the other day, picking up a Simworks rack and black Wald 
> (note the double basket up front) for the MB-1 project.  I've got a real 
> sturdy set of wheels on order for the Bombadil (Cliffhangers to SON/White 
> Ind), then it's "done", and my hope is to start wearing parts out, rather 
> than upgrade for no good reason haha   
>
> [image: PXL_20210401_020111383.jpg]
>
> On Friday, 1 February 2019 at 11:29:13 UTC-8 Adam Leibow wrote:
>
>> hi all, i want to create a thread where you just post a picture of 
>> your rivendell(s) whenever you feel like it. hope this is OK w/ the 
>> mods. i 
>> love lookin at pics of em all day. i will start with my sam hillborne.
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_3920.jpeg]
>>
> -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[J Schwartz]

I could be wrong about this, but does anyone seem to remember reading one 
of GP's posts about them using Kasei tubing on those first grey/maroon (and 
grey/orange) Hunqs?

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 11:02:21 AM UTC-4 Charlie R wrote:

> I pre-ordered one of the original Hunqapillars.  From what I can recall, 
> the Hunquapillar was the first Taiwan built Rivendell bicycle after 
> Rivendell left Toyo Japan.  It might have even been a Toyo Taiwan shop.  I 
> don't believe any were made by Toyo Japan.   There was a long wait period 
> and when I finally received the bicycle, Keven told me it was made by 
> Waterford because the order from Taiwan was just taking to long.  I 
> remember checking the serial number and it fit with the Waterford scheme.  
> Subsequent batches were made in Taiwan at least for a while and might have 
> reverted back to Waterford when the batch orders stopped.  
>
> The bike was the gray maroon colors.  I have a picture somewhere which I 
> will try to find.  I will also try to find my original receipt.  A fellow 
> list member now owns the bike.
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:08:44 AM UTC-4 John M wrote:
>
>> [image: right dropout.jpg]
>>
>> This was from my Hunqapillar with serial number "M14008".  Which I had 
>> assumed meant the eighth frame produced in 2014 at Waterford.
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:50:11 AM UTC-6 Ed Fausto wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joe,  would you know how to determine if the frame is made in Toyo or 
>>> Waterford?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:24:42 PM UTC+8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 That's correct, the first ones had orange and are very rare, then 
 kidney bean, then they went to the green frames. To my knowledge all are 
 Toyo or Waterford. 



 On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:04:29 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:

> I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what the 
> "p" designates?  
>
> On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, painted 
> gray with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump peg painted 
> gray, with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  The only other 
> gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color of the 
> head 
> tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a random 
> sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has an orange 
> ring 
> at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a somewhat sloppy 
> white.  
>
> I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came from 
> that first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>
>>
>> I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very first 
>> batch and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  Taiwan?  I've 
>> heard 
>> of Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first batch was 
>> from Taiwan.
>>
>> I have four different Hunqapillar brochures, one of which specifies 
>> the brand and number of the main tubes, but I have no idea if that 
>> brochure 
>> applies to mine or not.  
>>
>> The serial number format is RIV"P"XXX.  I'm not sure the "P" is 
>> actually a "P".  The paint is pretty heavy in that spot.  
>>
>> What color is your Hunqapillar?  Mine is gray and orange.  
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:01:27 PM UTC-5 Nikko in Oakland wrote:
>>
>>> Hey y’all, 
>>>
>>> Just out of curiosity... How do I know what year and location my 
>>> Hunq was manufactured in? Any particular details I should look at? Is 
>>> there 
>>> a Hunq manufacturing timeline somewhere? 
>>>
>>> Nikko in Oakland 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Charlie R]

I pre-ordered one of the original Hunqapillars.  From what I can recall, 
the Hunquapillar was the first Taiwan built Rivendell bicycle after 
Rivendell left Toyo Japan.  It might have even been a Toyo Taiwan shop.  I 
don't believe any were made by Toyo Japan.   There was a long wait period 
and when I finally received the bicycle, Keven told me it was made by 
Waterford because the order from Taiwan was just taking to long.  I 
remember checking the serial number and it fit with the Waterford scheme.  
Subsequent batches were made in Taiwan at least for a while and might have 
reverted back to Waterford when the batch orders stopped.  

The bike was the gray maroon colors.  I have a picture somewhere which I 
will try to find.  I will also try to find my original receipt.  A fellow 
list member now owns the bike.

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:08:44 AM UTC-4 John M wrote:

> [image: right dropout.jpg]
>
> This was from my Hunqapillar with serial number "M14008".  Which I had 
> assumed meant the eighth frame produced in 2014 at Waterford.
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:50:11 AM UTC-6 Ed Fausto wrote:
>
>> Hi Joe,  would you know how to determine if the frame is made in Toyo or 
>> Waterford?
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:24:42 PM UTC+8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> That's correct, the first ones had orange and are very rare, then kidney 
>>> bean, then they went to the green frames. To my knowledge all are Toyo or 
>>> Waterford. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:04:29 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>>>
 I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what the 
 "p" designates?  

 On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, painted 
 gray with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump peg painted 
 gray, with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  The only other 
 gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color of the head 
 tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a random 
 sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has an orange 
 ring 
 at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a somewhat sloppy white. 
  

 I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came from 
 that first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  

 On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:

>
> I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very first 
> batch and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  Taiwan?  I've 
> heard 
> of Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first batch was 
> from Taiwan.
>
> I have four different Hunqapillar brochures, one of which specifies 
> the brand and number of the main tubes, but I have no idea if that 
> brochure 
> applies to mine or not.  
>
> The serial number format is RIV"P"XXX.  I'm not sure the "P" is 
> actually a "P".  The paint is pretty heavy in that spot.  
>
> What color is your Hunqapillar?  Mine is gray and orange.  
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:01:27 PM UTC-5 Nikko in Oakland wrote:
>
>> Hey y’all, 
>>
>> Just out of curiosity... How do I know what year and location my Hunq 
>> was manufactured in? Any particular details I should look at? Is there a 
>> Hunq manufacturing timeline somewhere? 
>>
>> Nikko in Oakland 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Patrick Moore]

Also, the Cazaderos have small knobs; this will certainly affect rolling
resistance.

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 8:06 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I've used all sorts of wheel sizes and weights, from just shy of 20" to
> just over 30", and tires ranging from 175 grams to over 900 grams. IME,
> wheel diameter and tire weight affect the ride far less than tire quality
> (supple, light casing) except on hills, when at least in the extreme -- in
> my case, 800 gram rim and 800 gram tire + 200-250 gram tube; the rim and
> the tire were the "lite" models! -- you certainly can feel a difference
> climbing over a sub 175 gram tire, 360 gram rim, and 70 gram tube,
> especially if the overall wheel diameters differ by about 5".
>
> One of my "plane-y-est" bikes is that Matthews dirt road bike with 700C X
> 60 tires. Granted that the wheels are quite light for their size (29 1/2"
> tall, 60 mm wide, Velocity Blunt SSs, Big Ones), but the bike just feels
> easier to pedal in a given gear in given conditions; at least as good as my
> bikes with much lighter wheels. On the flats. Climbing, the light-wheel
> bikes feel faster.
>
> All that said, good quality light wheels and especially top quality tires
> really do affect the pleasure of the ride.
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Adam  wrote:
>
>> Hi all, hoping to get some thoughts on the role of wheels in acceleration
>> and climbing.
>>
>> I recently picked up my first Riv (Hillborne) and am running Dyads and
>> Barlow Pass tires. Among other things, I'm amazed at the difference in
>> acceleration, speed, and particularly climbing vs my other bike, which is a
>> pretty heavy Salsa Marrakesh with stock wheels (WTB sx19 and Shimano m475
>> hubs) and Cazaderos.
>>
>> I'm not necessarily jumping to replace the Marrakesh's wheels ATM, but I
>> am curious whether anyone has thoughts on whether or not that's likely the
>> difference I'm feeling in acceleration and speed?
>>
>> There's definitely a substantial weight difference between the two
>> builds, but I've loaded up the Sam a few times and it's still way quicker.
>> I'd just swap the wheels, but the Marrakesh's are disc.
>>
>> thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/215efd40-085a-4216-83b3-f8ae46aea0e7n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Patrick Moore]

I've used all sorts of wheel sizes and weights, from just shy of 20" to
just over 30", and tires ranging from 175 grams to over 900 grams. IME,
wheel diameter and tire weight affect the ride far less than tire quality
(supple, light casing) except on hills, when at least in the extreme -- in
my case, 800 gram rim and 800 gram tire + 200-250 gram tube; the rim and
the tire were the "lite" models! -- you certainly can feel a difference
climbing over a sub 175 gram tire, 360 gram rim, and 70 gram tube,
especially if the overall wheel diameters differ by about 5".

One of my "plane-y-est" bikes is that Matthews dirt road bike with 700C X
60 tires. Granted that the wheels are quite light for their size (29 1/2"
tall, 60 mm wide, Velocity Blunt SSs, Big Ones), but the bike just feels
easier to pedal in a given gear in given conditions; at least as good as my
bikes with much lighter wheels. On the flats. Climbing, the light-wheel
bikes feel faster.

All that said, good quality light wheels and especially top quality tires
really do affect the pleasure of the ride.

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Adam  wrote:

> Hi all, hoping to get some thoughts on the role of wheels in acceleration
> and climbing.
>
> I recently picked up my first Riv (Hillborne) and am running Dyads and
> Barlow Pass tires. Among other things, I'm amazed at the difference in
> acceleration, speed, and particularly climbing vs my other bike, which is a
> pretty heavy Salsa Marrakesh with stock wheels (WTB sx19 and Shimano m475
> hubs) and Cazaderos.
>
> I'm not necessarily jumping to replace the Marrakesh's wheels ATM, but I
> am curious whether anyone has thoughts on whether or not that's likely the
> difference I'm feeling in acceleration and speed?
>
> There's definitely a substantial weight difference between the two builds,
> but I've loaded up the Sam a few times and it's still way quicker. I'd just
> swap the wheels, but the Marrakesh's are disc.
>
> thoughts?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/215efd40-085a-4216-83b3-f8ae46aea0e7n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Clem H sizing, availability

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Kai, whoa, sorry to hear of the illegal turner but glad you and the frame 
otherwise appear to have come out of it unscathed.  I vaguely recall when 
one popped up for resale here (or maybe I'm just confusing that with Will's 
FYI that one of the pre-sales became available when someone backed out?) 
and was again way behind in seeing it but with 12 in the world hopefully my 
timing is better if one of the remaining 10 ever get released to the wild.  
Of course, I could always post a WTB in case anyone is holding one that's 
not getting ridden much but I'd need to first sell the Clem H to fund it 
and I'm actually banking on the upcoming Roaduno you mentioned was 
supposedly getting the XXL treatment.  (if all goes well it may end up 
replacing 3 rotating single speeds... though I still haven't been able to 
bring myself to offload any of them and they are different enough that I 
have greatly enjoyed mixing things up.)  Two of the 3 are now rebuilt and 
ready for spring to replace the one I've ridden exclusively the past 1.5yrs 
which will go back into reserve.

Best,
Brian Cole
Lawrenceville NJ

 

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 5:08:12 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY wrote:

> Thanks Andrew! They're rusting pretty good, even after a clear coat of 
> Penetrol, but strong and regularly carrying 70lb grocery loads on the lower 
> front.
> And Coal Bee Rye Anne, there's 12 in the world. I thought there was 6 and 
> I might've spread that rumor, but a recent post of Will's cleared it up. 
> And thanks to Ryan, I've got 2 (A SIXTH OF THE WORLDS SUPPLY) and I can 
> sleep at night because of it. I got run down by an illegal turner that left 
> me flustered and mostly fearful for the fate of the frame, which was fine, 
> but it put the fear in me.
> -Kai
> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4 Andrew Letton wrote:
>
>> Kai- 
>> That is some truly glorious rack and basket work on your Bubbe! Bravo!
>> Is it new (hence no rust) or does it have some sort of clearcoat on it?
>> cheers,
>> Andrew in Sydney
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 10:38:59 AM UTC+10 Abcyclehank wrote:
>>
>>> I heard some people like the jumbo mountain mixte Rosco so much they 
>>> have more than one in their fleet 樂   .
>>> Wish I had been that smart...
>>>
>>> Ryan Hankinson
>>> West Michigan
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 1:29:55 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Here's the answer to everything- search the world for one of these (the 
 precious, the Rosco Bubbe) and be forever happy- 
 https://photos.app.goo.gl/5UqTJPoisD1FiHJc9  
 Doesn't look as steppy throughy as the Clem L, but still gives some 
 room, and (risking offense to my fellow Clem 65 owners, sorry folks) rides 
 better than the Clems.
 -Kai

 On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 11:15:26 AM UTC-4 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:

> I am another 65cm H owner... with approx 97-ish pbh, 6'5" height.  My 
> seatpost and bar height are extended nearly the same as in Julian's pic 
> except I'm using a vintage B72 saddle which is not as tall has his sprung 
> saddle (flyer/conquest?) which likely accounts for some overall saddle 
> height difference I expect we'd have.
>
> Sounds like you certainly fall between sizes of 59 and 65H... I forget 
> the specific min/max but recall I was right near the minimum recommended 
> pbh for the 65H.  I almost went with a 59 with the initial Clem release 
> (and was really tempted when the first 59 prototype became a webspecial) 
> but hesitated having always been stuck with too small off the shelf bikes 
> and knew I wanted a more upright and comfortable sized bike for my casual 
> local riding (mixed pavement/gravel/multiuse trails.)  I have very little 
> standover clearance with the 65 but once I'm in the saddle I'm perfectly 
> content and couldn't imagine wanting to go smaller.  I've swapped from 
> 55cm 
> Bosco to Jones Loop(660mm 2.5 Riser) to ChocoMoose like Julian shows and 
> now have a regular Bullmoose installed. However, if I did a little more 
> rough stuff or off-road riding I think I'd actually prefer a 59cm for 
> slightly easier mounting/dismounting and a more aggressive bar position 
> using my Jones or Bullmoose bars. 
>
> I also thought it was mentioned they'd at least never do the 65cm H 
> again but don't recall where/when specifically.
>
> Best,
> Brian Cole
> Lawrence NJ
>
>
>
> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 7:34:46 AM UTC-4 weste...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have a 101 pbh and ride a 65 Clem (pic attached).  I really like 
>> it, but if my pbh were 5-6 cm smaller I think it would be an issue -- 
>> esp. 
>> if I was not using it primarily as a town bike as you see it set up 
>> here. 
>>
>> I think the 65 is history. 
>>
>> I'm with Kai -- get the L.   I've been seriously tempted to do so 
>> 

[RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Adam]

Hi all, hoping to get some thoughts on the role of wheels in acceleration 
and climbing.

I recently picked up my first Riv (Hillborne) and am running Dyads and 
Barlow Pass tires. Among other things, I'm amazed at the difference in 
acceleration, speed, and particularly climbing vs my other bike, which is a 
pretty heavy Salsa Marrakesh with stock wheels (WTB sx19 and Shimano m475 
hubs) and Cazaderos.

I'm not necessarily jumping to replace the Marrakesh's wheels ATM, but I am 
curious whether anyone has thoughts on whether or not that's likely the 
difference I'm feeling in acceleration and speed?

There's definitely a substantial weight difference between the two builds, 
but I've loaded up the Sam a few times and it's still way quicker. I'd just 
swap the wheels, but the Marrakesh's are disc.

thoughts?

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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Ed Fausto]

Hi Joe,  would you know how to determine if the frame is made in Toyo or 
Waterford?

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:24:42 PM UTC+8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That's correct, the first ones had orange and are very rare, then kidney 
> bean, then they went to the green frames. To my knowledge all are Toyo or 
> Waterford. 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:04:29 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>
>> I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what the "p" 
>> designates?  
>>
>> On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, painted gray 
>> with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump peg painted gray, 
>> with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  The only other 
>> gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color of the head 
>> tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a random 
>> sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has an orange ring 
>> at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a somewhat sloppy white.  
>>
>> I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came from that 
>> first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very first 
>>> batch and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  Taiwan?  I've heard 
>>> of Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first batch was 
>>> from Taiwan.
>>>
>>> I have four different Hunqapillar brochures, one of which specifies the 
>>> brand and number of the main tubes, but I have no idea if that brochure 
>>> applies to mine or not.  
>>>
>>> The serial number format is RIV"P"XXX.  I'm not sure the "P" is actually 
>>> a "P".  The paint is pretty heavy in that spot.  
>>>
>>> What color is your Hunqapillar?  Mine is gray and orange.  
>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:01:27 PM UTC-5 Nikko in Oakland wrote:
>>>
 Hey y’all, 

 Just out of curiosity... How do I know what year and location my Hunq 
 was manufactured in? Any particular details I should look at? Is there a 
 Hunq manufacturing timeline somewhere? 

 Nikko in Oakland 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Joe Bernard]

That's correct, the first ones had orange and are very rare, then kidney 
bean, then they went to the green frames. To my knowledge all are Toyo or 
Waterford. 



On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:04:29 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:

> I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what the "p" 
> designates?  
>
> On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, painted gray 
> with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump peg painted gray, 
> with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  The only other 
> gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color of the head 
> tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a random 
> sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has an orange ring 
> at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a somewhat sloppy white.  
>
> I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came from that 
> first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>
>>
>> I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very first batch 
>> and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  Taiwan?  I've heard of 
>> Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first batch was from 
>> Taiwan.
>>
>> I have four different Hunqapillar brochures, one of which specifies the 
>> brand and number of the main tubes, but I have no idea if that brochure 
>> applies to mine or not.  
>>
>> The serial number format is RIV"P"XXX.  I'm not sure the "P" is actually 
>> a "P".  The paint is pretty heavy in that spot.  
>>
>> What color is your Hunqapillar?  Mine is gray and orange.  
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:01:27 PM UTC-5 Nikko in Oakland wrote:
>>
>>> Hey y’all, 
>>>
>>> Just out of curiosity... How do I know what year and location my Hunq 
>>> was manufactured in? Any particular details I should look at? Is there a 
>>> Hunq manufacturing timeline somewhere? 
>>>
>>> Nikko in Oakland 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqs. How do I know what year mine is?

[Chris L]

I wonder if my Hunqapillar might be a prototype, and that's what the "p" 
designates?  

On Flickr, there are several photos of the 54 cm prototype, painted gray 
with orange head tube.  The photos clearly show the pump peg painted gray, 
with white lining around it, which matches my bike.  The only other 
gray/orange 54cm Hunq I'm aware of, has the pump peg the color of the head 
tube (ie, orange), as does every Hunqapillar, in any color, in a random 
sample from my collection of Hunq photos.  The prototype has an orange ring 
at the bottom of the seat tube lug, while mine is a somewhat sloppy white.  

I have always assumed all of (very few) orange trim Hunq's came from that 
first batch.  Maybe that is not the case.  

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:

>
> I would be curious, as well.  My Hunqapillar is from the very first batch 
> and I'm not even sure what year that was.  2011?  Taiwan?  I've heard of 
> Toyo and Wisconsin Hunqapillars but I'm assuming that first batch was from 
> Taiwan.
>
> I have four different Hunqapillar brochures, one of which specifies the 
> brand and number of the main tubes, but I have no idea if that brochure 
> applies to mine or not.  
>
> The serial number format is RIV"P"XXX.  I'm not sure the "P" is actually a 
> "P".  The paint is pretty heavy in that spot.  
>
> What color is your Hunqapillar?  Mine is gray and orange.  
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:01:27 PM UTC-5 Nikko in Oakland wrote:
>
>> Hey y’all, 
>>
>> Just out of curiosity... How do I know what year and location my Hunq was 
>> manufactured in? Any particular details I should look at? Is there a Hunq 
>> manufacturing timeline somewhere? 
>>
>> Nikko in Oakland 
>
>

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