[RBW] Re: FS: A. Homer Hilsen 65 Bike

[Ben Miller]

Absolutely 65 cm. But what's a couple of cm anyways?

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[RBW] FS: A. Homer Hilsen 65 Bike

[Ben Miller]

A complete Homer Hilsen bike for sale. I reckon Grant designed it to be a 
gentleman's country bike and I think this one lives up to that. A little 
beausage, but not much at all. Ernestly ridden over mountains and through 
valleys, as well as to more leisurely to market. This is one of the first run 
Homer's, from Toyo in Japan, I believe (I'm sure someone will correct me if 
it's actually from Waterford). But, it's honestly not got that many a kilometer 
on it. I'm it's second owner, as the first never rode it at all, due to back 
issues. It's a sweet whip, but I need room in my stable and it overlaps too 
much with another bike (too me, at least). Alright, enough prose, here are the 
brass tacks:

65 cm Rivendell A Homer Hilsen
Sugino Triple (46/36/24)
IRD Triple Front Derailleur 
Shiman Deore Rear Derailleur 
Silver Down Tube Shifter (Front)
Micro shift R9 brifter (Rear)
Silver Long Reach Brakes
Nitto Dirt Drop Handlebar   
Nitto Technomic Quill Stem 
Nitto S-83 seat post
SP Dymano Front Hub
Shimano Deore Rear Hub (9 speed)
Shimano 9 speed Rear cassette (11-32T)
Hand built wheels with Velocity Synergy rims (700c)
Soma Supple V 700x40 tyres
Supernova E3 front light plus taillight
Nitto Mark's Front Rack
Nitto Big Back Rack
No pedals/saddle/water bottles/bags (I'll be keeping those)

Those are the particulars. Yeah, the shifting setup is a little odd, but it 
works well for me. Other than that, it's all Nitto'ed out for your aesthetic 
pleasure and durability. Ready for any road riding, touring, fire road, or bike 
camping trip you might want. And into the night or early morning with the 
dynamo setup. If you're not into nighttime riding or riding with racks we can 
discuss not including those. I may entertain frame-only offers, but I'd like to 
sell it more or less as a complete bike. 

$2600 seems reasonable. That's what you'd get a frame for and this is without 
the wait! Link to picture picture below. There are other ones in the feed or I 
can send them directly if interested. Thanks for reading!

https://instagram.com/p/BG2d_hnl8Rb/

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[RBW] Re: FS: A. Homer Hilsen 65 Bike

[Ben Miller]

Thanks Bill. I did fender it for awhile, but some time during the drought they 
came off and never went back on. I do prefer it fenderless. With all these 
fires I'd happily fender back up if it brought the rain though :/

Definitely ORRG on Tam. The Homer tackles that no problem. Lots of fun fire 
roads up there in Marin. Bolinas Ridge, Blythsdale Ridge, and Old Vee are some 
of my favorite. I've been wanting to ride Pine Mt Fire Rd, but haven't yet. 
Have you been out there?

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Re: [RBW] Is tube patching a permanent, reliable fix?

[Ben Miller]

For whatever it's worth, I've put 1000's of km's on Lezyne glueless 
patches. They've last longer than the tyres in which they're encased.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hetres

[Ben Miller]

Steve, I consider your comments to be bordering on being rude; I noted the 
visually differences and also explained why I don't believe them to be 
functionally different. Also, red treaded Hetre tyres look different than 
white or black, but are not they functionally different. 

Nor am I playing "silly games." I never said all tyres are the same, so 
that's a straw man argument that you've put up. But a tyre that is made in 
the same factory, for the same price, that weighs the same and is made for 
the same performance, yes, I do consider them to be functionally the same. 

I believe I have read most to nearly all Jan's blog posts and BQ articles 
on Compass tyres, so I'm not sure which post you are specifically referring 
to, but if you want to provide the link I will review it.

And again, don't take my word for it, much has been written on tread for 
bikes on pavement (or lack thereof), both by Sheldon & Jan, and others. And 
again, that's not to say that all tyres perform the same. Different tyres 
will perform different, regardless of tread, due to rubber compounds.

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 2:55:35 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 11/25/2017 05:34 PM, Ben Miller wrote:
>
> As I said, it's an intensely personal choice.  
>
> Thanks, yes, I have looked at them. I don't consider the treads to be any 
> different, 
>
>
> Then you need to have your vision checked, because at this point I wonder 
> that you are even able to see the first line on the eye chart.  The 
> difference is obvious.  
>
>
> because I consider all slick treads to be the same. Bikes can not 
> hydroplane under anything close to normal circumstances, so what possible 
> difference could there be between those treads? Those differences in treads 
> are cosmetic, nothing more. (Don't believe me? Read what Sheldon Brown 
> <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html> has to say about tread.) 
>
>
> You're either being deliberately obtuse or you are completely missing the 
> point.  Regardless of the functioning of tread, you simply cannot say the 
> tires are "identical" if the differences in the tread are obvious to the 
> naked eye.Now if you want to say something like "all bike tires are 
> functionally equivalent," then for some values of "equivalent" that might 
> be a true statement, and we could get into a detailed discussion of the 
> function of tread on bicycle tires.  But that's not what you said.
>
> Don't play silly games.  If your point is that as far as you are concerned 
> all bicycle tires are the same then just say so, but don't expect anyone to 
> take you seriously.
>
> Even if somehow you still think that there is a difference between radial 
> and herringbone tread, along the center, where the tyre actually contacts, 
> both Grand Bois and Compass have radial tread (SOMA's have a mix of radial 
> and a "true" slick pattern).
>
> And true, no one other than Panaracer really knows what, if any, 
> difference exists in those three tyres. But, if you're Panaracer and some 
> asks for a tyre of a given size, weight, performance, and price point, how 
> many different knobs do you think you have left to turn? It's not like 
> Panaracer in Japan has an infinite number of casing material and rubber 
> compounds to chose from, so those criteria almost certainly lock you into a 
> rubber & casing design and everything else is cosmetic. Do you really think 
> there is more to this decision making process? If so, what? 
>
>
> If you go back to Jan's blog and do a little searching you will find some 
> posts describing the design process for Compass tires.  It's entirely clear 
> from his writing that that decision process didn't even slightly resemble 
> your summary.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 1:17:25 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/25/2017 02:57 PM, Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Then be surprised.  The fact that Panaracer makes them doesn't mean 
>> they're made the same.  And honestly, detecting the difference between the 
>> Hetre and any other tire doesn't require a lot of detective work: all you 
>> need do is look at them.  Here they are side by side.  It's obvious that's 
>> not the same tread.  
>>
>> [image: Image result for compass babyshoe pass][image: Image result for 
>> grand bois hetre]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Steve Palincsar
>> Alexandria, Virginia 
>> USA
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Hetres

[Ben Miller]

As I said, it's an intensely personal choice. 

Thanks, yes, I have looked at them. I don't consider the treads to be any 
different, because I consider all slick treads to be the same. Bikes can 
not hydroplane under anything close to normal circumstances, so what 
possible difference could there be between those treads? Those differences 
in treads are cosmetic, nothing more. (Don't believe me? Read what Sheldon 
Brown <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html> has to say about tread.) 
Even if somehow you still think that there is a difference between radial 
and herringbone tread, along the center, where the tyre actually contacts, 
both Grand Bois and Compass have radial tread (SOMA's have a mix of radial 
and a "true" slick pattern).

And true, no one other than Panaracer really knows what, if any, difference 
exists in those three tyres. But, if you're Panaracer and some asks for a 
tyre of a given size, weight, performance, and price point, how many 
different knobs do you think you have left to turn? It's not like Panaracer 
in Japan has an infinite number of casing material and rubber compounds to 
chose from, so those criteria almost certainly lock you into a rubber & 
casing design and everything else is cosmetic. Do you really think there is 
more to this decision making process? If so, what? 

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 1:17:25 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 11/25/2017 02:57 PM, Ben Miller wrote:
>
>
>
> Then be surprised.  The fact that Panaracer makes them doesn't mean 
> they're made the same.  And honestly, detecting the difference between the 
> Hetre and any other tire doesn't require a lot of detective work: all you 
> need do is look at them.  Here they are side by side.  It's obvious that's 
> not the same tread.  
>
> [image: Image result for compass babyshoe pass][image: Image result for 
> grand bois hetre]
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hetres

[Ben Miller]

I guess if you want to jump through all those hoops to get tyres that say 
"Grand Bois" on them, by all means (literally).

But Compass' Babyshoe and SOMA's Grand Randonneur EX tyres are both made by 
Panaracer (in Japan), with nearly the same specifications as the Hetres. In 
fact, the Hetre EL, the original Compass Babyshoe, and the SOMA GR EX all 
weigh the same (within grams of each other), I'd be surprised if these 
aren't all the exact same tyre. Compass has since updated their Babyshoe to 
be a true 42mm, so it is a bit different, therefore the SOMA GR EX might be 
the closest thing to the original Hetre that one can buy easily in the USA.

I know that tyres as an intensely personal choice, so I'm not begrudging 
the original poster! More of a reference to anyone else who is thinking 
about Hetre alternatives.

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[RBW] Re: Biking to ski

[Ben Miller]

What a sufferfest, but it looks so fun! For a while now I've wanted to 
strap the splitboard on and bike to ski, so this is pretty inspiring. Have 
you seen Brody and Abe's Pedal to Peak , also 
good, but I think I like this Patagonia one even better. What a great 
video; thanks for sharing!

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 9:22:23 PM UTC-8, velomann wrote:
>
> Nice film from Patagonia about some rookie bikepackers riding to ski 
> gnarly lines in the eastern Sierra.
> https://youtu.be/WOSwosFt_rI
> Mike M

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[RBW] What is a Rivvish bike?

[Ben Miller]

Ok, you got me. It's a damn good story

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[RBW] Re: Sam and Barlow Pass 700c

[Ben Miller]

I've run Barlow Passes with fenders on my Homer. Personally, I think 
Barlow's are ideal for road riding and can also tackle most fire road/dirt 
situations. Snoqualmie might be nice for more intense off roading though.

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 8:41:43 PM UTC-7, Antone Könst wrote:
>
> I think the Cheviot has very similar clearance, and I run my Barlow Pass 
> tires (which I adore) under some of the big plastic silver/grey fenders 
> that seem ubiquitous...plenty of room. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

[Ben Miller]

Patrick,

I agree ride quality does take precedence, and we all trust Riv to put that 
first and foremost, and they deliver. But there is more than one way to 
skin a cat, as they say, so there are lots of different ways to make a bike 
that rides well and is durable (the other really important Riv guiding 
principle?) But there still other choice(s). That's where I believe 
aesthetic comes in. Rivendell could make the exact same bikes but with hot 
pink flames on the DT, but they don't, they make bikes with softened 
primary colors and cream. I don't think they begrudge a bike with hot pink 
flames, but that's not what they do. If you repainted a Riv frame with them 
they might even dig it. But they're not making one anytime soon. And so it 
goes with all their design choices. And whenever you already chosen for 
function and durability, the only thing left is aesthetic (well, I'll admit 
that I may be leaving something out, but you get the idea). 

And by the way, *not* choosing tweed mudflaps is an atheistic ;)

"But that's fine; there is plenty of room for wonderful, practical bikes 
that are outside of the Rivendell ambit." That's a great sentiment and I 
totally agree. 

On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 5:47:34 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Oh, and I have to say about the Niner: as far as I can tell, it's a very 
> Rivendellian bike in its subordination of form to function; but true, it's 
> not a Rivendellian mannter of subordinating form to function. But that's 
> fine; there is plenty of room for wonderful, practical bikes that are 
> outside of the Rivendell ambit.
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Ben Miller <ben.l@gmail.com 
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> ... end of the day Grant decides what Riv is. (This is said slightly 
>>> tongue-in-cheek, but only slightly)
>>>
>>
>> That's true; what is left for debate is, if this is all that Riv is, is 
>> it worth following?
>>
>> I've followed Rivendell since 1994, when I belatedly signed up for the 
>> Bob group and got the mailing about the new post Bridgestone Bicycles USA 
>> startup. I ordered a custom in late '94, and I've loved Rivendell bikes 
>> ever since.
>>
>> But I love them, and many others love them, because they ride so well, 
>> and that everything else was largely* subordinated to this ride quality. 
>> After all, what else takes precedent over ride quality?
>>
>> " ... It's a choice, an aesthetic. "
>>
>> If Rivendell was only, or principally, an aesthetic, I'd gag and run as 
>> fast as I could toward the horizon. If Riv was only, or principally an 
>> aesthetic, then f*ck them, I personally have no use for stylemongers. 
>>
>> But, thank God, Rivendell is far, far, *far* more than an aesthetic.
>>
>> Aesthetic posers be damned, I say.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, who feels very strongly about this, and who would, were 
>> Rivendell only an aesthetic, feel betrayed.
>>
>> * I'll allow Riv a wee bit of slack for gratuitous aesthetic touches, 
>> though I take points away for tweed mudflaps.
>>  
>>
>>>
>>> Personally, I do think Rivendell is retrogrouchy, but instead of running 
>>> away from that, I love have they embrace it. "Yeah, we don't like carbon 
>>> forks, disc brakes, or anything but steel, so what?" It's a choice, an 
>>> aesthetic. Rivendell definitely curates its own brand/philosophy/style and 
>>> it's part of the fun/allure. It's part of bucking the system, but also 
>>> leads to good design choices (a bunch of which have already been 
>>> mentioned). But there are plenty of good design choices that they're 
>>> purposefully at odds with and that's more than OK, it's why we like them. 
>>> It allows us to feel good about our own overlapping quirky design choices 
>>> (whilst at the same time secretly hiding way our brifters and disc brakes).
>>>
>>>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, New Mexico, EUA
> **
> **
> *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
>

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[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

[Ben Miller]

In response to the original posting by Bill, I'm going to go out on a limb 
and say that the Niner is definitely NOT Rivvish (sorry). 

There may be a few things or a lot that make it un-Riv, but what really 
jumps out at me is the carbon fork. I mean, come on, RBW has had whole 
campaigns *against* the carbon fork. Lest we forget the "Carbonomas Steel 
Fork" and "http://www.bustedcarbon.com/;? I know this started from Will 
saying that it was "Rivvish," but Will is not Grant and, well, at the end 
of the day Grant decides what Riv is. (This is said slightly 
tongue-in-cheek, but only slightly)

Personally, I do think Rivendell is retrogrouchy, but instead of running 
away from that, I love have they embrace it. "Yeah, we don't like carbon 
forks, disc brakes, or anything but steel, so what?" It's a choice, an 
aesthetic. Rivendell definitely curates its own brand/philosophy/style and 
it's part of the fun/allure. It's part of bucking the system, but also 
leads to good design choices (a bunch of which have already been 
mentioned). But there are plenty of good design choices that they're 
purposefully at odds with and that's more than OK, it's why we like them. 
It allows us to feel good about our own overlapping quirky design choices 
(whilst at the same time secretly hiding way our brifters and disc brakes).

That's my take. And it's absolutely in no way meant to disparage your Niner 
;) It looks like a sweet ride.

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[RBW] Re: Traveling with your bike

[Ben Miller]

Interesting ideas guys. 

I will look into the Amtrak idea.

Doug, are you sure about 130"? It seems airlines are mostly at 62 
dimensional inches (length+height+width). 130 dimensional inches would be a 
BIG box. The one I'm using to ship this sold bike is 81" (42+30+9). 

As far as flights vs shipping, JetBlue is only $50, Southwest $75, and 
United is $100 (but I really dislike United, so I'm not sure about that 
one). Those are all options and give or take a BikeFlights shipment price 
(assuming I can get it under their box size limits, as Eric points out).

Any ideas on the best cases for large frames?

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 2:31:12 PM UTC-8, dougP wrote:
>
> Ben:
>
> Check all the airlines serving your destination but IMHO it's rare for an 
> airline to be competitive with ground service.  On top of that, the 
> airlines are no more gentle with luggage than UPS & Fed Ex are with 
> packages. If you take your bike on the airplane, you also have to think 
> about transporting the big box from the airport to your destination.  
> Sounds trivial but it can be a hassle. 
>
> Check the current standards but the magic number for UPS & Fed Ex has been 
> 130", combined length plus girth of your box.  I have a hard case that 
> meets the requirement and my 58 cm Atlantis fits.  I have to remove racks 
> but can still pack them in the box.  A 62 might be a snug fit.  
>
> Depending on your needs at your destination, another solution is to track 
> down a rental bike.  This option has grown in availability in the last few 
> years, and is worth considering if you are doing casual rides in one area.  
> Of course, if you are setting out on a long, multi day tour having your own 
> bike is priceless.  
>
> Have not used Bike Flights but they have gotten positive reviews on bike 
> forums.  
>
> dougP
>
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 1:05:32 PM UTC-8, Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>> I'm in the process of packing up a bike I sold to another list member and 
>> also, at the same time, planning a trip that I want to take a bike with me. 
>> Being a tall person, I love that Rivendell makes large bikes, but when it 
>> comes to packing them, you run up against the fact that most frames just 
>> aren't so damn big. 
>>
>> So, anyone have thoughts/suggestions on traveling with your 
>> larger-than-average-frame Rivendell? Any experience with soft or hard shell 
>> bike travel cases, for say a 62 cm+ frame? 
>>
>> Also, any preferences on taking the bike with you on the plane vs 
>> shipping it, say via BikeFlights? I realize this is somewhat airline 
>> dependent, as the cost on some airlines is just too much for it to make 
>> sense. But assuming a $100 or less bike fee for the airline, does 
>> BikeFlight offer anything in terms of piece of mind or insurance? Where do 
>> you ship it too, if you don't have a contact where you're going? A bike 
>> shop? 
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Ben
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Matt from Crust - PLP Talks

[Ben Miller]

I listened to it last night on the commute home. I laughed a lot. Matt seems 
like a fun, interesting person, doing his thing and getting by. Definitely 
interesting getting his take starting a independent bike business and also some 
of the back story on things, especially the leather bar/towelrack! 

I also listened to the PLP talk with Benedict/Ultraromance. And I recommend 
that too. Might start going back and listening to more of these PLP interviews. 

And like Adam I own several Rivs and two Crust bikes. A Romancüer and a 
Scapegoat. I disagree with Matt on the 'Goat, I think it's a very aesthetically 
pleasing bike! And it's so much fun to ride. It's really like a extra-large BMX 
and makes you feel like a kid again. A lot has been said about the Romancüer, 
so i don't think I have anything new to say, other than I love mine. I can't 
wait to get my hands on some damn leather bars for it though!

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[RBW] Traveling with your bike

[Ben Miller]

I'm in the process of packing up a bike I sold to another list member and also, 
at the same time, planning a trip that I want to take a bike with me. Being a 
tall person, I love that Rivendell makes large bikes, but when it comes to 
packing them, you run up against the fact that most frames just aren't so damn 
big. 

So, anyone have thoughts/suggestions on traveling with your 
larger-than-average-frame Rivendell? Any experience with soft or hard shell 
bike travel cases, for say a 62 cm+ frame? 

Also, any preferences on taking the bike with you on the plane vs shipping it, 
say via BikeFlights? I realize this is somewhat airline dependent, as the cost 
on some airlines is just too much for it to make sense. But assuming a $100 or 
less bike fee for the airline, does BikeFlight offer anything in terms of piece 
of mind or insurance? Where do you ship it too, if you don't have a contact 
where you're going? A bike shop? 

Thanks in advance,
Ben

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[RBW] Re: FS: 60 Quickbeam and 52tt/50.5st Crust Romanceur

[Ben Miller]

Stephen,

I think that Romancüer looks sweet! I have a mustard 59 Romancüer, but the 
rootbeer is just a great color and I love the way you built it up. Great job 
and best of luck to whomever it goes to. 

Ben

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[RBW] Re: WTB: 62 Quickbeam or SimpleOne

[Ben Miller]

Hey Tom,

Glad you're happy with the bike! I hope you get more use out of it than I did. 
I had a black Brooks saddle on there, so I can see you black & green scheme 
working. Look forward to seeing how you mix it up and any ride reports!

Cheers,
Ben

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[RBW] Re: Have a Sub 20lb Roadeo?

[Ben Miller]

I believe when I first built my Roadeo up it was 21 lbs, without a rack, rando 
bag, and fenders. I could easily see it being sub 20 without my dynamo hub and 
lights. Take away the frame pump and Brooks saddle your even lower. 

But then what's the point of the bike?? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Ben Miller]

My apologies if I butchered your words, Bill. I'll be more careful in the 
future ;) You are correct, there is no way that the Roadeo could fit 44's. 
The 38' are very tight as is. Probably not recommended and that's why Riv 
lists 35's as max. 

I'm currently laid up with a broken leg, which is keeping me pretty 
immobile. (Not a bike accident) So, getting the bike down to take a picture 
is out of the question at the moment. As I recall there is about 1.5 mm of 
clearance (41 mm gap at chainstay). But, to not totally leave you 
wondering, here is a few pictures of the 
bike https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd3t8J1hh0b/?hl=en

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 11:43:42 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Careful there.  That's not exactly what I said.  Laing said he wanted a 
> stripped down roadbike that took 38 or 44 tires.  Steve Palinscar responded 
> by recommending that Laing buy a Roadeo.  I responded to Steve's 
> recommendation that a Roadeo "does not take 38 or 44 tires".  In one sense, 
> I was wrong.  If the question was "Does a Roadeo allow you to use EITHER 
> 38mm OR 44mm tires?" then you've shown the answer is yes.  If the question 
> is "Does a Roadeo give me the freedom to run my choice of 38mm or 44mm 
> tires?" then the answer is no.  
>
> It's cool that your Roadeo takes 38s, but I would bet a dollar that your 
> Roadeo can't take 44mm tires, and that's all I intended.  
>
> Please post photos of the closest clearance spots on your Roadeo with 
> 700x38 tires, if you don't mind.  What width rims are you running?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 11:05:42 AM UTC-8, Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>> Bill Lindsay wrote that the Roadeo doesn't take 38mm tyres. 
>>
>> That is what the official Riv geometry charts says. I however have been 
>> riding my Roadeo with Compass 700x38 tyres for at least 3000 km. 
>>
>> Also, I'm basically at the opposite end from Laing. I wish my Roadeo came 
>> with Mid fork rack braze-ons and have often thought about adding them. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Ben Miller]

Bill Lindsay wrote that the Roadeo doesn't take 38mm tyres. 

That is what the official Riv geometry charts says. I however have been riding 
my Roadeo with Compass 700x38 tyres for at least 3000 km. 

Also, I'm basically at the opposite end from Laing. I wish my Roadeo came with 
Mid fork rack braze-ons and have often thought about adding them. 

Ben

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[RBW] Re: Something Simple This Way Comes...

[Ben Miller]

Looking sweet. Love it! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Unsafe helmets

[Ben Miller]

Michael, thanks for passing along the information. I for one did not know about 
the connection between Giro and the larger brand portfolio. It's nice to be 
well informed about where your dollars go and therefore better chose how to 
spend them. 

Ben

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[RBW] Re: Riv request for store credits

[Ben Miller]

I've see a few posts on Instagram also spreading the news about Rivendell; the 
word is getting out:

https://instagram.com/p/BfjltyYgIir/
https://instagram.com/p/BfjjkX6Ac1S/

As for my part, I got a few gift certificates. In doing so, I left the browser 
open and my wife read about it and saw a web special Roadini in her size. A 
quick zip over to Walnut Creek and she has her first ever Rivendell steed!

Ben

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[RBW] FS: 65 Homer Hilsen F/F/HS

[Ben Miller]

For your consideration, a 65 Homer Hilsen Frame/Fork/Headset made a Waterford. 
$1000+shipping via Bikeflights

No dents or dings. Some beausage, lost paint chips from normal use. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZozAp9arDV1WVdw99

Cheers,
Ben

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Re: [RBW] FS: 65 Homer Hilsen F/F/HS

[Ben Miller]

James - Yup, made at Waterford, in Waterford, Wisconsin. 

Reed - Yeah, it's one of the original Homers, and so you need to look for 
the old geometries. As David mentions, it is 62.5 cm per the chart. I'm in 
San Francisco and I would sell it nearby. It'd save me from having to pack 
it up!

Also, I have gotten a few other questions via email. It is indeed a 65 cm 
AHH, but with only a single top tube (you could request them w/o the double 
TT).

Per the old MUSA AHH sizing guide, the recommended PBH measurements are 
62-64 (although you can definitely go a little to either side of that.

Cheers,
Ben
 

On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 7:36:56 AM UTC-7, David B wrote:
>
> According to charts (scroll down for the 'old' MUSA version), top tube is 
> 62.5cm.
>
>
> On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 9:21:54 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Mind measuring the top tube, Ben? The 65cm isn’t listed on the current 
>> Riv geometry charts. 
>>
>> Also, what’s your location? Would you sell in person to someone nearby?
>>
>> Best,
>> Reed
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:11 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>
>>> For your consideration, a 65 Homer Hilsen Frame/Fork/Headset made a 
>>> Waterford. $1000+shipping via Bikeflights
>>>
>>> No dents or dings. Some beausage, lost paint chips from normal use. 
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZozAp9arDV1WVdw99
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ben
>>>
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>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] FS: 65 Homer Hilsen F/F/HS

[Ben Miller]

Haha, yes I did. Thanks Patrick for catching that.

So, to be clear, 92-94 (Here is the chart 

)

Ben

On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 12:17:35 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Ben, I presume you meant a PBH in the 90’s rather than 60’s? 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick 

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Re: [RBW] Quickbeam Headtube Sizes?

[Ben Miller]

Cool. I was imagining something more like an archaeology dig or crash site, 
where you only had the head tube and had to ID the bike based upon that

It does raise sort of an existential question about frame sizes though: If 
you measure a seat tube to be 56 cm and it's really a 58 cm, will it still 
plane??

Ben

On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 4:15:28 PM UTC-7, Dave Grossman wrote:
>
> Yes.  But that can be easily messed up if not to the right spot of the 
> lug.  And the 56 and 58 are close in the top tube.  I just want some extra 
> data.

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Re: [RBW] Quickbeam Headtube Sizes?

[Ben Miller]

Okay, I'm curious. Wouldn't it be easier to ID a Quickbeam by just 
measuring the seat tube?


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[RBW] Adding Canti mounts to a Ram???

[Ben Miller]

Some thoughts:

With some LR brakes, you should be able to fit Barlow Passes (I was able to). 
Or you could do a 650b conversion with the LR brakes and fit some 40's. 

I think the only benefit of adding post mounts would be less brake flex, but 
then I'd say go with post mounted centerpulls. Though maybe the canti's might 
offer a bit more in terms of fender room? Unclear how much though. 

If the Ram is you're only bike, consider that adding any posts is going to take 
your bike out of commission for a bit. 

Cheers,
Ben 

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[RBW] Re: Have dynamo wheel your Roadeo?

[Ben Miller]

I have a SON28 on my Roadeo. It's great, especially now that the days are 
getting shorter again. 

All my other bikes have a SP dynamos. Also, great. SON's look nicer, but I 
actually like the connector for the SP better. 

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Re: [RBW] 65 Homer Hilsen F/F/HS

[Ben Miller]

Looking good Reed! I'm still gathering bits and widgets from the far corners of 
the globe for the Hunq that I got from you in the trade. And I have at least a 
couple of things in the bike maintenance queque before I tackle the build, but 
I am excited for digitube craziness. 

Ben

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[RBW] Re: Sharing a 52 Clem L with my much shorter spouse. Feasable? Crazy?

[Ben Miller]

I have to say, this is an experiment I'd like to see happen. Not sure why 
everyone is nay-saying it. The Riv geometry charts have both of your PBH within 
that range, and I always think Grant is conservative in making those. 

If you can get to a 52 Clem, why not test it out?

And everyone saying such and such height difference will never work, hogwash. 
Bike share bikes are designed to fit people from 4'10" to 6'5". Clearly bikes 
can be designed to fit a wide range of sizes and it looks like Rivendell did 
that with the Clem L. 

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[RBW] FS: 62 SimpleOne, Dark Green

[Ben Miller]

I know that bike!

I love what you did with the handlebars! Great bike and build. 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell World Headquarters Visit

[Ben Miller]

Hey Chris,

I both the Atlantis and the Homer had the swoopy TT!

Megan isn't in possession of the Clem yet, but she's very excited about it. It 
really seems like a great bike for the price. 

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[RBW] Re: Analog Cycles w(Right) stem write up

[Ben Miller]

James,

Cool (w)rite up man. I like the history and thought that went into them. 
Might take a bit getting used to the stubby look, but it does have a 
certain appeal to it. And, I love that it's a removable faceplate. To me 
this is the single biggest drawback to quill stems and why??? (I know some 
other quill stems are made with faceplates, but don't look that nice...)

I might have to take some measurements and see if they'd work with any of 
my current bikes. Although I think the Crust Scapegoat that you guys built 
for me would totally work, if I can ever get my hands on a set of 
Bene's/Crust's Leather bars. Maybe the threadless version will be out by 
the time they release the next version of the leather bars!

Also, sorry to hear that you guys are leaving MD, but stoked you're going 
to my home state of VT! Best of luck with the move!

Ben

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 3:30:25 PM UTC-8, James / Analog Cycles 
wrote:
>
> Hey Gang, James from Analog Cycles, formerly the Co-Owner at Gravel & 
> Grind here.  We have some interesting projects in the works that are highly 
> Riv oriented.  Hope you'll take the time to check them out.  Also: for 
> right now, we're the DC area Rivendell dealer.  Wanna get a Riv?  We'll set 
> you up.  We have a few Chev frames and Roadini frames in stock, and we can 
> get ya whatever Rivendell has, and save you the shipping + help with build 
> outs and fitting.  In late spring, we're moving Analog to Vermont, but 
> we're in Frederick for a few more months!
>
>
> We have a new entry up on the Analog journal: w(Right) Stem Write Up  
> which details our recent stem project.
>
>
> 
>
>
> It's about super short reach stems, the benefits, the history and the 
> future.  We've been riding the prototypes for a while, but they're about to 
> go into low scale production.  Check it out when ya get a sec. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone catch the hint on Instagram of a 26" Compass knobby?

[Ben Miller]

I have some Onza Canis 26X2.25 skinwalls on my Romancuer. They ride great and 
look fantastic. Sadly I can't find them anywhere anymore. I am dreading them 
wearing out, so hopefully y'all are right and by that time Compass will have 
something to replace them. 

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Re: [RBW] Truing wheels question.

[Ben Miller]

I've built a dozen or so wheels without any issues. And I've trued wheels in 
the middle of rides (just not ones I built :) 

It's not hard. Like others have said, go slow with quarter turns. Read a book 
on wheel building or Sheldon Brown's page on it. Wheel building is mostly 
trueing the wheel. I disagree that you need a dedicated stand. I built my first 
half dozen wheels on the frame. Use the rim brake as a guide (not your hand!) 
Side pull brakes make it easy. But cantilevers work too. Wheels I built this 
way have over 10,000 km without any problems. 

Good luck and have fun.

Ben

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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Ben Miller]

Since the original question was about truing, and not building a wheel, I feel 
it should be pointed out you don't need a tensionometer or to lubricate the 
nipples. Those are nessecary to build a wheel, but not to true it. 

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[RBW] Millionaire baseball player rides classic bike

[Ben Miller]

Ben Zoborist, one of the best players in baseball, rides a classic looking 
steel-framed, fendered, and light-mounted bike to baseball games. Also features 
sweptback bars and upright position. Note lack of helmet, only baseball cap. 

https://www.mlb.com/cut4/ben-zobrist-rides-bike-around-chicago-to-wrigley-field/c-294846296

Maybe he's read some of Grant's literature? Great a multi-millioniare sports 
icon ride a bike to a game instead of being driven in a Bentley. I know LeBron 
said some excellent things about bikes and rides alot too. Bonus that both of 
them take a "Just Ride" mentality to it and not suggesting that you need 
carbon/Lycra to ride a bike. Hopefully it inspires!

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Re: [RBW] Millionaire baseball player rides classic bike

[Ben Miller]

Ash, thanks for the follow-up story. That made my day!

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[RBW] Re: Quickbeam Owners: White Industries ENO or VBC Crankset?

[Ben Miller]

I thought that the VBC and the ENO were the same crankset, just different Q 
Factor? MTB for ENO and VBC for road. 

My SimpleOne experience was that the chainstays weren't limiting Q Factor, but 
were limiting chainring size. I needed to go up a size in BB spindle when I was 
running a 44 chainring. 

Ben

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Re: [RBW] Off or on-topic? Cannabis oil

[Ben Miller]

Wow, I'm a little struck by that. At best it sounds autocratic to say we can 
only talk about OT things if Grant brings it up first. At worst, it sounds 
cultish. 

It seems like a better policy to either just keep it about Rivendell products 
only *or* allow any tangentially related off-topic discussion as long as it 
clearly labeled as such. (Which it was)


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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ben Miller]

Huh, I couldn't read the tire info on the Blahg bike, but yeah, those 
definitely look like 650b. Fake news?

Harry definitely said 3 inch tires though! 

Also, I have a rigid 650b-plus 3" bike and it is a lot of fun. Like, just 
plain fun. Riding it is like being reminded of how fun it was to ride a BMX 
bike as a kid. I think of it less as a MTB and more of a 
go-out-of-my-way-to-just-roll-over-everything bike.

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 4:05:31 PM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Thank you - good to hear confirmation/hope.  The blahg bike looks pretty 
> clear to be 650b.

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ben Miller]

I see a lot of discussion about 650b and 2.8" tires. For whatever it is worth, 
when I went to Rivendell and was holding the fork I was told it was designed 
for 700c and a 3" tire. (Though I'd bet smaller frames would be 650b)

Ben

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[RBW] WTB: Completely knackered Brooks B68 (Going to try re-hanging a leather top)

[Ben Miller]

LeRoy,

I don't have a knackered B68, nor have I tried rehanging a saddle. But I have 
got a custom saddle from Obsidian Monarch. He used an old Brooks frame and 
rehung it with new leather and did custom leather work on it. It's great! 
Definitely thicker leather than on a regular Brooks, so takes a while to break 
in. But I imagine it lasts longer. 

I say go for it man! Do you need a mold to shape the leather? That might be the 
hardest part. 

Ben

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[RBW] Re: Tell me about your super-wide drops

[Ben Miller]

I like Collins point with one correction: "The main point I think is that 
*handlebars* are kinda like saddles." 

As a person who loves drop bars but has always hated how narrow they are, I 
love the recent developments. I own the Crust Towelrack (v2 - Full size at 
670 mm) and the Crust x Nitto Shaka bar (520 mm). Wide drop bars are great 
for really maximizing different hand positions (so many!) This is my main 
reason for liking them. I heartily disagree with anyone who questions their 
ergonomics, even a little. The Nitto Mustache is 515 mm, the Rivendell 
Albastache is 555 mm, and the Riv Billie 580 mm, and the Bullmoose 670 mm! 
And modern MTB bars are even larger. No one complains about those being 
based upon "ergonomics that haven't been tested properly." 

Personally, I have never liked alt-bars (Albatross, Bullmoose, etc), though 
I love the look of them. But that is me! If you want a wide bar and like 
not having drops, get some alts. If you want a narrow bar and drops you're 
all set. And now, if you've been jonesing for a wide bar with drops, you're 
time has come! I don't think there is much mystery to it. Yes you can fit a 
larger bag, but too me that shouldn't be a reason to get handlebars (though 
it is a nice benefit to wide bars). I'm also middling about the off-road 
aspect. I've never felt like 440 mm noddles provided too little leverage 
for a bumpy trail, but maybe I'm not shredding the gnar hard enough??

A couple of final thoughts: I think the Shaka bar strikes pretty much the 
prefect balance for me, so much so I bought another pair just the other day 
when Crust came back online. The Towelrack, although still really *really* 
good, have a few drawbacks to me compared to the Shaka:
Aerodynamics - yeah, yeah, I'm not overly concerns with *Aero* or anything, 
but you do pay a bit of penalty here, coasting down a descent in which your 
buddies speed past you without pedaling is just something that is going to 
happen compared to normal drops, even the Shakas (which I don't notice this 
with). Now compared to Alts, it's probably better, so if your decision is 
between the two, it's maybe a no-brainer, but something to consider 
otherwise (Basically I don't want to put them on a pure road bike)
Clearance - They are *wide; *be prepared to have to think a lot more about 
navigating some situations. On the open road this isn't a problem, but 
tight singletrack or urban bike infrastructure can suddenly become a bit 
more challenging. I think this may be more of challenge with wide drops 
compared to alt or MTB bars due to your hands being a bit more exposed due 
to the positioning, even though they are just as wide. Or, i dunno, maybe 
my bike handling skills are junk and I got away with narrow bars? Again I 
don't have this issue with the Shakas as much
Different pressure points - Not really a big deal, but do be prepared to 
get callous in different spots. I notice that using Towelrack tends to give 
me callouses inbetween my thumb and forefinger, whereas with normal drops I 
get them more on the base forefinger and middle finger. 

In short, handlebars are very much a personal preference and wide dropbars 
aren't any different; they are *not* a panacea but I also don't think they 
are just a "trend." They are probably best for folks you like a lot of 
width for different hand positions and also want to maximum their reach on 
their bike compared to alt bars. 
 
On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 9:37:00 AM UTC-8 André P wrote:

> I mounted Shaka 31.8 clamp bars to my Hillborne in late 2019. I just took 
> them off to put back on the original Noodles I got with the bike back in 
> 2014. I personally feel like I have my Rivendell back after swapping back 
> to the Noodles. The factors that I list as negatives might however might be 
> exactly what some folks are looking for!
>
> - Too upright, I got a shorter more upright stem as went with the usual 
> recommendation. It just put me too up and out in a way that's not the same 
> as a nice wide mountain bike bar.
> - Too stiff, I had the Shaka's in 31.8 with a steel Nitto stem of some 
> variety. I think the flexy cockpit is a feature of Riv's that shouldn't be 
> undercounted. It provides a lot of that feeling of smoothness on dirt 
> (maybe, who knows).
>
> On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 7:50:29 AM UTC-8 Collin A wrote:
>
>> I'll add my little tidbit after trying 2 different wide (560 at the 
>> drops, 48 to 50 at the hoods) not Super-Wide drop bars. The main point I 
>> think is that the wide drops are kinda like saddles - find one with a shape 
>> that you like because everyone will tell you something different. I also 
>> don't think its better than any particular setup, just something different 
>> that may fit your needs better than typical drops or flat bars.
>>
>> Key Points to make it work (I think):
>> Shorten your stem
>> Know what flare you like (for me, 15-20 is perfect for rough stuff, 12 is 
>> the max I go for road). I 

[RBW] Re: Musette Recommendations

[Ben Miller]

Michael,

I have a Strawfoot waxed-canvas musette that I really like. Handmade in 
Santa Cruz, CA.

Still plain and functional, but the waxed canvas does provide a fair deal 
of structure. I don't know what the original Riv musette looks like, but 
the Strawfoot was a nice, straightforward clasp to hold the cross strap in 
place that just works. And it doesn't have a zipper like the new Riv one, 
but just a snap that feels really solid. It's been durable for me, had it 
for ~10 years.

Ben

On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 9:16:56 AM UTC-8 Michael Ullmer wrote:

> I was gifted, by a very kind soul, an old Riv Plain Musette made of 
> organic cotton, along with the 1996 Rivendell catalog that it's featured 
> in. Like the label implies, it's plain and simple. I'm planning to keep it 
> in my bike bag for those instances where I need to carry just a bit more 
> than the bag allows.
>
> I'm wondering if folks have recommendations for other musettes that work 
> well on a bike, but have a few more features (and more structure) than this 
> plain cotton one that I have. Even better, if you have one you'd like to 
> sell contact me off-list. The two that I've found so far that I like are 
> both out of stock (Riv's current Musette and one from Handy Bag).
>
> As an aside, in the last week I've found a new appreciation for my Riv 
> MUSA Pants when a pair of long johns are layered underneath. I tended not 
> to like the feel of cold nylon on my legs in the winter months, adding long 
> johns make these pants a dream.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Deacon Patrick

[Ben Miller]

I read the Deacon's blog post last night. This incidentally is 
corresponding with my own return to the RBW Owners Bunch after a couple 
year hiatus. Something pleasing about reading his words as some of my first.

But like a lot of Deacon's prose I struggle with his words; I had to reread 
it a few times to get some meaning. Any idea what censorship he is talking 
about? I don't want to dig up old wounds just to satisfy my curiosity, so 
if it's better left unsaid that is fine. But censorship isn't something I 
ever really experienced here and I'm hoping that hasn't changed in those 
intervening years.

Ben

On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 9:59:03 AM UTC-8 ack...@gmail.com wrote:

> Spectacular response
>
> On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 8:29:40 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>>
>> https://deaconpatrick.org/reaching-a-crossroads-with-an-online-bicycle-group
>>
>>
>> Note
>>  
>> that I didn't in fact direct him to take a look at the sentiments expressed 
>> about him, but simply said that many had expressed interest and good wishes.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62cm Appaloosa F/F/HS

[Ben Miller]

Friend said: "With my butt on the saddle I can get my tippy toes of one 
foot to touch the ground."

Shouldn't this be true of any bike, regardless of standover height?

On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 6:15:57 AM UTC-8 Friend wrote:

> I'm 6'2" with a 92cm PBH and I ride a 62cm Appaloosa with 45mm tires. 
>  With my butt on the saddle I can get my tippy toes of one foot to touch 
> the ground.  Stand over is right at my groin bone.  I would ride it any 
> smaller or any larger.
>
> On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 10:11:50 AM UTC-5 boblo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> Here is a chart from the Riv site:  
>> https://www.rivbike.com/pages/pubic-bone-height-how-to-measure-your-pbh
>>
>> Bob
>> On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 8:13:00 AM UTC-6 David Wadstrup wrote:
>>
>>> Good morning, Bones,
>>>
>>> Just sent a PM.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is anyone able to tell me what the PBH range is for this 62cm frame? 
>>> I've hunted around online and can't turn anything up.
>>>
>>> Thanks all!
>>>
>>> David
>>> On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-5 Bones wrote:
>>>
 Bump. I'll drop the price for local pickup to $900. Make me an offer.

 Bones

 On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 3:35:29 PM UTC-5 Bones wrote:

> $1000 shipped CONUS or can arrange for local pickup (NJ, outside of 
> Philadelphia)
>
> Ever since I moved the kiddos over to my Cargo Clem I've had a hard 
> time finding a job for my Apploosa. It's a wonderful bike but I simply do 
> not need an All-Rounder while I have other bikes better suited to each 
> type 
> of riding I do. Two years of beausage. No dents or dings other than some 
> mild depressions on the chainstays from the super-duper kickstand I used 
> to 
> use. There are some moderate scrapes near the crank and inside the drive 
> side chainstay (loose chain incident). Other small scrapes here and 
> there. 
> The attached pictures should show it all.
>
> Please PM me with any questions. Thanks!
> Bones
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Widest tire fit on Homer Hilsen?

[Ben Miller]

I had an early Waterford AHH size 65. It maxed out at 38x700c tyres. In 
fact, I ended up parting ways with it because of that. I did really try to 
get Bruce Gordon Rock n Roads to fit, but it wasn't even close. I think I 
would have kept to if could have. 

The problem was the seats stays weren't dimpled. So it might have just been 
that particular frame, though I don't really know. I did inquire with a 
frame builder about dimpling them, but was told it was too close to the 
bridge that it would probably ruin the frames structural integrity. 

On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 3:43:19 PM UTC-8 mkernan...@gmail.com wrote:

> I used to have a Waterford Homer.  Not sure of the year.   I ran 45c WTB 
> Riddlers and 43c Bruce Gordon Rock n Roads.   Both sets: front and rear.   
> Not sure you could fender those tires though.   Soma Cazadero in 42s are 
> nice as well.   These tires all lean towards gravel/ dirt oriented.-Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 1, 2021, at 3:34 PM, Paul Richardson  wrote:
>
> I successfully ran 43mm GravelKing SK+, but only very briefly.  Personally 
> I like the bike best with 38mm Rene Herse or good ol' 33mm Jack Browns.  
> Mine's a 2011 Waterford.
>
> paul
> takoma park, md.
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 5:02:58 PM UTC-5 Sean Cleary wrote:
>
>> Hey gang, what 700C tires above 40mm have you had success with on 
>> previous generation (2013) A. Homer Hilsen? Confusing what exactly fits per 
>> Rivbike. Have really enjoyed GravelKing Slick Plus 35mm on smooth gravel 
>> and pavement but that's the max width in that non-knobby tread pattern. 
>> Want to "*go to 11*"; thinking 42-45mm. Thanks!
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Ben Miller]

I built up a rear wheel for a friend's bike build using older generation VO 
Grand Cru hub. Was fine building up and riding. Alas, the bike wasn't 
ridden long enough for me to report on long term performance. 

An other option is Suzue's rear hub. I haven't used their rim brake hub, 
but I'm about to build up a disc brake one. That also seems fine in the 
hand. And I have a White Ind rear hub with over 1 km on it, so I know 
what that's like. I'm hopeful the Suzue will perform the same!

As far as rims, you mentioned the HED belgium, but not Pacenti rims, any 
reason? I'm build that Suzue rear wheel with them. Almost half the price 
and lighter than equalilent velocity rims. I know some people don't like 
them, but I definitely think they're a great option
On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:40:40 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hiya Joe,
>
> I agree the WI hubs are nice. I have a WI rear hub on my Bantam adventure 
> bike. The buzzing noise is cool except that to the horses in our area it 
> sounds like a rattlesnake :0 Honestly I was hoping to save a little bit of 
> coin on a wheel build. Seriously with the white industry hub it'll put the 
> wheel build nearly what I paid for the frame.
>
> Best,
>
> Hugh
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 6:34 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> I have polished WI hubs with Velocity Atlas rims that Rich @ Riv/Hands On 
>> Wheels built me. My rim choice won't help you and I can't vouch for V-O 
>> hubs, but White Industries is light and smooth and makes a cool buzzing 
>> sound at the freehub without being loud. Worth every penny in my opinion, I 
>> love em. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:10:46 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Nice to hear from you. I think I'm going to have pro-wheel builder build 
>>> the wheels and I don't think the ones that you're getting from Peter White 
>>> are an option? I think those are a custom option The velocity will do?? I 
>>> look forward to seeing your build. Please post it up on the group when your 
>>> finished.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 6:08 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>

 I just ordered a custom pair of silver anodized MSW Cliffhangers 
 through Peter White Cycles, though they won't arrive until late March or 
 early April.  I also had checked in with Velocity by email a few weeks 
 back 
 and was told that their standard silver anodized rims (unlike my machined 
 sidewall custom order) would be back in stock in mid February.  I believe 
 they also make the Cliffhanger in a polished finish, but I'm not sure if 
 those are in stock anywhere.

 Good luck with your "shiny" build.  My Cliffhangers will be part of a 
 VERY shiny build on a Bombadil I'm working on.

 Willet M.

 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:32:18 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do 
> a search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 
> 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? 
> Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth 
> it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and 
> speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian 
> rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on 
> the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with 
> let 
> me know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>
 -- 

>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
 Google 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Ben Miller]

Hi Hugh,

Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah as 
you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 

I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a 
counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.

Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.


On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring 
> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One 
> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily 
> tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal 
> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as medium 
> loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being unusually 
> loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that makes you 
> focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet it down 
> some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore off and I 
> stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me. 
>
> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light touring 
> and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and the 
> bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them). All 
> in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub. 
> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower 
> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr 
> wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent 
> customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the 
>> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm 
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the 
>> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>>
>>> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a 
>>> brake track.
>>> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down 
>>> the right hubs.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
 search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
 William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
 same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.

 On with the question,

 Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
 Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? 
 Does 
 it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
 loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
 quality and then later impressions.

 It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
 shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
 and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
 $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 

 I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
 Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
 If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
 tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
 at $165 nope! 

 I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on 
 the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with 
 let 
 me know? 

 Best Regards,

 Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 

 Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
 running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
 preference is a easily 

Re: [RBW] Re: Dim lighting on SON hub/Edelux II headlight

[Ben Miller]

Hm, I seem to recall the movies being really dark, too dark to see which 
side its connected on.

But didn't Analog wire it up? With the connector wire being on oneside vs 
the other (drive vs nondrive?)

Ben

On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 2:24:34 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Don’t take this from me, Collin! 藍
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 27, 2021, at 2:22 PM, Collin A  wrote:
>
> That shouldn't matter for the Son Dynamos. Per their FAQ page:
> https://nabendynamo.de/en/service/faqs/
>
> 
>
>
> But hey, it might solve it?
>
> Collin in Sacramento
> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Interesting catch by Analog, after reviewing the photo: the wheel is 
>> backwards. The connector for the hub should be on the right side. The drive 
>> side. I can’t believe none of us noticed! I’ll call the shop and tell them 
>> to flip it. That’s a start.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2021, at 12:34 PM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
>>
>> SON 28!
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2021, at 12:20 PM, brian tester  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Is the hub a SON Delux or a SON28? I ask because the Delux was 
>> technically developed for 20" wheel bikes, with higher rotation rates. 
>> While it works fine built into a larger diameter wheel (and will introduce 
>> less pedalling resitance and will weigh slightly less than the SON28,) it 
>> will produce less wattage as the the wheel diameter grows. So a 700c wheel 
>> with a fattish tire will make fewer rotations per foot than an ideal 20" 
>> wheel, therefore producing less watts. Add a tail light to the equation and 
>> the hub will be hard-pressed to bring the headlight to full brightness. 
>>
>> The SON28, on the other hand, is recommended for larger diameter wheels 
>> and situations involving additional lighting, i.e. a tail light, and device 
>> charging via USB. Probably not exactly what you want to hear, if you do 
>> have the SON Delux, but it could go a long way toward explaining your 
>> frustrating lack of light.
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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[RBW] Re: Leather Handlebar Tape & Obenauf's?

[Ben Miller]

Not sure there is a wrong way. But i'd apply the leather conditioner after 
installation, personally. 

1. It seems easier to apply after wrapping than as a strip
2. Wrapping with a slightly oil/slick tape might be a little bit more 
difficult

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-7 John Phillips wrote:

>Should I treat the top side of my leather bar tape with Obenauf's 
> before wrapping, or after wrapping? Or am I overthinking this?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dim lighting on SON hub/Edelux II headlight

[Ben Miller]

Leah,

I'm happy to hear the wheel flip helped! Woohoo ! (Even if it is a mystery 
as to why??) I hope you now get your bike back and can enjoy those 
nighttime trails! 

As for the sound: it mostly sounds normal too me, but there is a secondary 
second in there that sounds like leaves rustling to me. Like Rowing to 
Nowhere said, make sure that QR is tight in the axle, though persumably the 
mechanics will have it in there nice and snug! :)

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 3:23:56 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Oh for Pete's sake! Yep, that's definitely quiet..quieter than the one I 
> had by a lot. 
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 3:16:35 PM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Leah:
>>
>> Here’s my SON 28 hub in action. It’s totally silent. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Downsizing a Clem

[Ben Miller]

Good stuff! Thanks for sharing Marty!

Cool perspective on the process of dialing in a bike. And I love VO Crazy 
Bars, so that's always a treat :)

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 2:23:03 PM UTC-7 Marty Gierke, Stewartstown 
PA wrote:

> This popped up out of nowhere and I thought it was worth a read. I don't 
> think I had seen it here, so apologies if it has been posted before. My own 
> 59 Clem H is nearly complete - will do a dial in ride tomorrow.  Pics to 
> follow next week as I'll be out of town for a few days. 
>
> https://behindthebluemotel.com/2019/07/clem-smith-jr-try-number-two/
>
> Marty
>

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[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Sonoma Coast

[Ben Miller]

Kushan,

Also, if you aren't aware, there is a separate Bay Area Riv group 
. Usually posts 
about local gatherings or meetups, but it's been pretty quiet during the 
pandemic. Hopefully things will pick up as we put this all in the rearview.

Ben
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 12:29:38 PM UTC-7 Kieran J wrote:

> Welcome to the list! Super nice looking ride - I HAVE to get back to Nor 
> Cal! :-P
>
> Kieran
> Victoria, BC
>
>
> On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 7:16:58 PM UTC-7 Kushan wrote:
>
>> Hi all - 
>>
>> I am new to this group and thought I'd start by posting about a recent 
>> ride.
>>
>> I had some free-time yesterday so decided take my recently acquired Leo 
>> (Roadini), my first Riv, for a venture to Sonoma county. I have wanting to 
>> do a good long ride since I got the bike and the Sonoma Coast route 
>>  designed by a local bike club had the 
>> potential to make my day. 
>>
>> This turned out to be the best day on a bike in a while. It included 
>> redwoods, fog covered green hills, a river, several beaches, and multiple 
>> walks of shame (despite my 28t ring) on remote but ridiculously steep 
>> hills. Some of the single lane roads were so remote that I didn't see 
>> another soul for miles. All the good stuff that fills you with gratefulness 
>> and remind you of how lucky you are to be living a paradise like California 
>> (with 10% state income tax, mind you). 
>>
>> Anyways - enough words, here are some of my favorite pictures 
>> 
>>  from 
>> the ride... 
>>
>> Best
>> Kushan
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dim lighting on SON hub/Edelux II headlight

[Ben Miller]

Oh wow, Leah!

In theory that *shouldn't* matter, I don't think. It's coaxial wire, so 
there should be minimal electrical impedance (if that were a double strand 
though, definitely no bueno). The wraps around the forks also shouldn't be 
issue (for coaxial or double). The additional resistance from the excess 
copper I'm also guessing is minimal. But again, you should try 
disconnecting the rear light in order to troubleshoot!

But Oh Man, either way, please get someone to cut that wire to somewhat of 
a proper length! It's just asking for trouble and detracts from the 
otherwise great looks! You can always leave it a bit long: this gives you 
leeway for trimming more later, moving to a different bike (unlikely in 
your case i feel :), or changing things around. There is a neat way to deal 
with excess wire by wrapping it around a thin rod (like a screw driver or 
pencil); it will retain the coil shape (especially if you apply a little 
bit of heat while doing it). The coil will act like a little slinky, but 
can be straight out later if desired.

It's funny, other than the bird's nest, the wiring doesn't actually look 
that bad. There is a nice looking grommet going into the fender, everything 
appears coaxial, and you even have the SON coaxial connector! I'd be 
interested in seeing a close up of the wiring around the fork and in the 
fender though!

On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 7:04:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Joe is right - tons of wire. They were afraid to cut it/splice it/solder 
> it or whatever the correct term is. There is one guy who will do it 
> (begrudgingly) and I’d have to make an appt with him. So, it’s bunched up 
> and zip-tied near the kickstand bolt. No idea if that affects performance.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 27, 2021, at 6:48 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> Holy cow that's a a lot of wire. Lots of wraps around the fork, then a big 
> bundle behind the bottom bracket. Hey electricity people, would all that 
> length cause current issues going to the lights?*
>
> *I realize this is probably a really dumb question. I'm good for that! 
> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 6:37:11 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> #RivSister Dorothy has it right. Poor Analog has to do what they can 
>> remotely with no frame on the premises. They nail it every time, too. The 
>> shop here in Vegas (I don’t think the young sweetheart mechanic had ever 
>> done dyno before) set it up with the wiring on the non-drive side. 
>> Honestly, if it were that simple of a fix, I’d be delighted. I called that 
>> mechanic and told him about it today; he had his reasons for setting it up 
>> on the “wrong” side - something about looking better in pictures. See? A 
>> sweetheart. 
>>
>> I suppose I never did send a photo of the bike but I’ve sent so many that 
>> I have lost track! Here are a couple of recent shots. 
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Apr 27, 2021, at 5:52 PM, Dorothy C  wrote:
>>
>> Ben, Analog built the wheels and did the anodizing, Leah got the frame 
>> from Riv and had the rest of the build done locally, from what I recall
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 2:47:12 PM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Hm, I seem to recall the movies being really dark, too dark to see which 
>>> side its connected on.
>>>
>>> But didn't Analog wire it up? With the connector wire being on oneside 
>>> vs the other (drive vs nondrive?)
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 2:24:34 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don’t take this from me, Collin! 藍
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 27, 2021, at 2:22 PM, Collin A  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That shouldn't matter for the Son Dynamos. Per their FAQ page:
>>>> https://nabendynamo.de/en/service/faqs/
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But hey, it might solve it?
>>>>
>>>> Collin in Sacramento
>>>> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Interesting catch by Analog, after reviewing the photo: the wheel is 
>>>>> backwards. The connector for the hub should be on the right side. The 
>>>>> drive 
>>>>> side. I can’t believe none of us noticed! I’ll call the shop and tell 
>>>>> them 
>>>>> to flip it. That’s a start.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>&g

Re: [RBW] Re: Dim lighting on SON hub/Edelux II headlight

[Ben Miller]

Leah, that'd be so cool if you could just bike over and we could put it up 
in the stand for troubleshooting! I'd be all for that!

On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 6:02:27 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I'll use right/left, which is actually how I think about it when I'm not 
> trying to sound like a smart guy who knows bike words. When you push the 
> front shifter all the way to the hardest gear up front, it's pushing the 
> derailer to the right as you're looking down at it. In that hard/hard gear 
> front/back the chain is furthest over to the right, too. I think your front 
> derailer isn't moving any further right to clear the chain, it's hitting a 
> limit. That limit can be adjusted out so the derailer moves right a smidge 
> more. Does that make sense? 
>
>
>
> On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 5:54:45 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> This is exactly what I do. However, I know about trimming derailleurs and 
>> so even when I nudge the front derailleur I cannot stop the chatter. So, 
>> what can that mean? But it does go away in other gears. I’m stuck with 
>> chatter in the HARD-HARD. (Leahspeak for whatever those gears are called. I 
>> have no idea which one is “high” and which one is “low.” I know hard and 
>> easy.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Apr 24, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> I contend that only doing it in the big/small rings means the fd isn't 
>> traveling far enough to clear the chain on that combo. On a 2-speed setup 
>> like this it's common for the rider to use the friction shifter like index: 
>> all the one way for the small ring, all the way the other for big. I think 
>> she's shifting all the way and the derailer is stopping a smidge short. 
>> Smartbrain 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 5:11:53 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> The sound from the video is like a rhythmic ratcheting/creaking sound as 
>>> Leah pedals, it's not a FD rubbing sound as that has a smooth surface and 
>>> is higher pitched smooth metallic sound. I'm listening to it loud and with 
>>> headphones, eyes closed. 
>>>
>>> The obvious question is does the sound remain when not pedaling ? What 
>>> does what when you do what ? What doesn't ? 
>>>
>>> If I was a mechanic worth a penny I'd either ride with you to hear it, 
>>> or ride the bike myself, or have you ride around inside the store and run 
>>> along side. Just dropping it off and expecting them to experience what 
>>> you're experiencing in real time as you ride is rarely fruitful, as no two 
>>> people hear the same thing the same way, so it can become sort of a word 
>>> game of "it sounds like . ". 
>>>
>>> Anyways  "stuff going wrong" is like a cosmic *slight-of-mind*  
>>> joke we play on ourselves . What for , one may wonder ?
>>> Because we can. I ask for the sake of the ask, wonder for the sake of 
>>> the wonder .. it's Life for Life's sake . and there isn't anything 
>>> else. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 7:27:48 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Front derailers are the bane of my existence. I love the look of the 
 nice Campagnolo on my custom, but I'm super-OCD-fastidious about chain rub 
 and constantly adjusting the shifter to avoid it. My Susie doesn't HAVE a 
 front derailer, all I have to do is shift the back. No chain grinding, no 
 OCD, I'm free! 


 On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 4:11:48 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> Joe, I bet you’re right about that! It is constant and always in the 
> Hard-Hard gear, which is what I nearly always ride. I shall save these 
> words and tell them to the shop when I get my bike back, do a test ride 
> in 
> the lot and invariably it makes the SAME noise. 
>
> Ben, it seems that way to me, too. The wiring is probably the weakest 
> link. I wish I knew some real-life Riv folks who would let me bike right 
> on 
> over and put my bike in their stand for diagnosis! Someday, I hope...
>
> Leah
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 24, 2021, at 4:00 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> The rhythmic noise sounds like the chain barely grazing the front 
> derailer, like what would happen if the chainring is ever so slightly out 
> of round. In this scenario you could think you have the cage centered 
> over 
> the chain, then not notice the chain wobbling over to graze the cage 
> while 
> pedaling. This issue can be exacerbated by using a 9-speed (wider) chain 
> with a 10-speed (narrower) derailer, which I suspect is the case on your 
> bike. 
>
>
> The other sound? No idea! 路
>
> On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 3:14:36 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> Oh, it’s not your fault, Ben. I am overly attached to this bike and 
>> I’ve made myself a wreck over it. 
>>
>> As far as the noise, there is more than one. But there is one noise 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Dim lighting on SON hub/Edelux II headlight

[Ben Miller]

Oh no Leah! I hope I'm not making you more anxious 

A SON hub still be mostly quiet. I tried taking video of my two in the
stand, but honestly its too soft of a sound to properly pick out (my water
heater, freezer, wind, dog, and passing traffic all made it too difficult
to properly document)!

But a SON does make a more noticeable noise than an SP. (I have several of
both types). Again, I wouldn't say noise isn't the issue, but I wouldn't
have you're LBS try and service a SON hub, that is for sure.

Maybe you could try to video the hub sound in the stand??

On Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 1:02 PM Leah Peterson  wrote:

> Ben,
> This is why I cry in the parking lot after I drop my bike off. Because I
> know it’s completely plausible that my bike will come back in worse shape
> than I left it because shops in this town don’t know about bikes like mine
> - bikes with dyno and fenders. I’ve had a lot of parts installed wrong
> during my time in Vegas. But dyno is new to me, too, so I don’t know what a
> normal Schmidt SON sounds like. My Shutter Precision is quiet and gives me
> a bright light. That’s what I have to go on.
>
> I’ll just have to hope whoever works on my Platy will realize those are
> sealed bearings. It won’t be the mechanic who checked me in today, so at
> least there’s that...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 24, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Ben Miller  wrote:
>
> 
> I wouldn't say that SON dynamo hubs are supposed to be silent, at least
> not in the same way a normal front hub is silent. It's not to way that the
> noise might not be the issue, but some noise is to be expected.
>
> As for grease, from the SON website
> <https://nabendynamo.de/en/service/faqs/>:
> Do bearings on a SON hub dynamo need any maintenance?
> SON Nabendynamo bearings are sealed on both sides; they are
> lifetime-lubricated grooved ball bearings. Normally they run
> maintenance-free for many 10 thousands of kilometers and need neither
> lubrication nor adjustment. Should a fault nevertheless occur the bearings
> will be replaced by the manufacturer.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dim lighting on SON hub/Edelux II headlight

[Ben Miller]

I believe you about the sound, but its such a hard thing to capture over 
the video. I think I hear the drivetrain noise, but hard to tell the other 
"electrical" one. I think video phones are not ideal for capturing such 
things; I tried once again to record the SON noise without any real success 
:/

SP and SON's are both great hubs. I think SON hubs get better rating 
because people think they look nicer, they have slightly better drag 
profiles vs SP, and they known to last a long time (A friend of mine SP 
recently failed, though I think it was some time after 20,000 km; SON's 
supposedly last much longer) Oh, and I think you can build a slightly 
stronger wheel with a SON vs SP (though my SP wheels seem plenty strong, so 
I think this is marginal). If all that adds up to worth the extra $$$ vs an 
SP, well that's up to the buyer... One thing that I think is better about 
the SP over the SON is the standard connector (SON doesn't even come with 
one, and the Edelux female connectors work for sure, but are annoying 
compared to the SP connector. I guess you can get a SON coaxial connector, 
but that's another $30) Overall, I like both and decide which to use 
depending on my use case for the bike.

Personally, I'd be pretty surprised if it was the hub. I definitely agree 
the Edelux looks too dim (I don't think it's merely pointed too high). But 
I'd put money on the wiring. Again, I think the best way to test that is to 
try and isolate the various parts of the system (though I realize you don't 
have the bike at the moment). Hopefully this is something your LBS is doing 
for you?
On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 3:14:36 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Oh, it’s not your fault, Ben. I am overly attached to this bike and I’ve 
> made myself a wreck over it. 
>
> As far as the noise, there is more than one. But there is one noise that 
> sounds kind of like electrical current, and it never came at a predicable 
> time - like with pedaling. It would cause a little vibratory feeling and 
> was loud enough that I could pick it up using my iPhone to video. Last 
> night it was nearly constant and seemed to coincide with the turning of the 
> pedals. I caught it on video, which I will attach here. There are actually 
> two sounds being made, I think one is drivetrain chatter that I’m hoping 
> the shop sets straight for me this week. You have to tune your ear to it 
> but if you listen you’ll hear two atypical sounds - sort out the wind noise 
> and listen for a rhythmic sound and a constant chatter. They’re there.
>
> The sound when the wheel is spun with the bike stationary is slight, but 
> annoying. I don’t have that on video and the bike is now in custody of the 
> shop. But if Shutter Precision managed to make it quiet, why can’t Schmidt 
> do the same? And the flickering. That occurs at speeds that I think are 
> fast enough to generate a solid light. At the same speed a SP will hold a 
> steady beam. I know SON is the reigning champion for dyno, but why? 
>
> Here are the videos. The first is a better specimen, I think:
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Dim lighting on SON hub/Edelux II headlight

[Ben Miller]

Major Bummer Leah! The SON powered Edelux light system definitely does seem 
to not be getting enough electricity! 

Electrical issues can be fiendishly difficult to suss out, so I'd recommend 
taking it step by step.

Have you tried disconnecting the rear light on the Platypus? If you do 
disconnect the RL and the light gets brighter you know its an issue with 
the RL wiring (The RL draws so little power its shouldn't noticeable effect 
the Edelux) Disconnect the RL directly from attachment at the Edelux for 
best troubleshooting.

If you do that test and still the Edelux seems dim, than it must be the 
wiring between the Edelux and the SON hub. But you have 2 dynamos (which is 
a great thing)! However, one is a 700/SON and the other is 650/SP. This 
means the next next is harder. You can't install the SP onto the Platypus, 
I don't think (Due to the SPO connector). But I think you should be able to 
test the SON on the Clem. In the bike stand, can you install the 700/SON on 
the Clem? Maybe you need to slightly deflate the tyre? The SP connector 
will be finicky with the SON hub; you mazy need to push and hold it up 
against the thinner SON connection tabs (but it does work, I put an SP 
connector on my Roadeo's SON and have rode it for miles). If you can get 
all that to work, spin the wheel hard in the bike stand. Is it was bright 
as it was with the SP (make sure you spin the SP in the Clem in the stand 
too for reference!) If it is not as bright, you've now diagnosed a SON hub 
issue! If it is as bright, your issue is in the wiring between the SON hub 
and the Edelux. 

In summary:
Test RL connection: rule out RL (dim) or RL wiring is issue (bright). 
Test SON on Clem: rule out and its a Edelux wiring issue (bright), or it's 
an issue with the SON hub (dim).
If wiring issue, you or someone else should rewiring that complete section. 
If it's a SON hub issue, well I'd contact the vendor you got the hub or 
wheel build from!

Hopefully this is something fairly easy for you to try out. Feel free to 
ask more questions if some part doesn't make sense.

Best of luck!
Ben

On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 8:22:32 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Parts for Simpleone *Wheels, crankset, brakes, etc*

[Ben Miller]

I have an IRD Defiant Track crank that I had on a SimpleOne. It's a 46t 
chainring and with 167.5 arms (I usually have 172.5 or 175, but with fixed 
a slightly shorter crank is definitely desirable for avoiding pedal 
strike). I think I might have BB for the crank still, but I'll have to 
check.

I also have MKS BM-7 pedals, but no toe clips. You could get some and 
install them on them. 

Finally, I have Clement X'Plor 700x40's tyres that there on the SimpleOne 
for a bit, but overall very low mileage. 

Contact me off-list if anything is of interest. Otherwise best of luck!

On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 10:35:12 AM UTC-7 duh...@gmail.com wrote:

> *Update:*
>
> Rear wheel procured and message sent to Joe on the levers.
>
> *Still after*: *Crankset, cantilevers* *now open to Paul's to match the 
> levers, this is getting out of hand quickly haha*, *pedals, and some 
> 700x42 tires*
>
> Thanks all for your responses, much appreciated!
>
> On Friday, April 23, 2021 at 8:46:52 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Not cheap and not the brakeset, but I have these Paul Short-Pull/Canti 
>> levers I'm not using cuz both my Rivs are v-braked now. As new, unmarked, 
>> they lived a remarkably short life on a Frank Jones singlespeed I bought 
>> and immediately realized I no longer have the knees for. They should be on 
>> another Riv uno-bike! $125 shipped.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dim lighting on SON hub/Edelux II headlight

[Ben Miller]

I wouldn't say that SON dynamo hubs are supposed to be silent, at least not
in the same way a normal front hub is silent. It's not to way that the
noise might not be the issue, but some noise is to be expected.

As for grease, from the SON website
:
Do bearings on a SON hub dynamo need any maintenance?
SON Nabendynamo bearings are sealed on both sides; they are
lifetime-lubricated grooved ball bearings. Normally they run
maintenance-free for many 10 thousands of kilometers and need neither
lubrication nor adjustment. Should a fault nevertheless occur the bearings
will be replaced by the manufacturer.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Looking for the following !

[Ben Miller]

I have a silver shimano 52/42/30 with matching octolink BB with 172.5 arms.
Not sure if that quite fits your specifics

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 2:19 PM  wrote:

> Yep!  I have a few projects in the works. I used to have the pedals but
> lost them during a move some years back .
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 25, 2021, at 2:15 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> 26" wheels, saddlebag, RX-1 pedals -- is this an old mountain bike
> conversion? The RX-1s are wonderful pedals, they make old Campy quills feel
> like MKS Sylvans. (OK, exaggeration, but it makes the point.)
>
>
>
> On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 12:30:14 PM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:
> *Good morning everyone! I’m looking for a few parts. To buy/trade. *
>
> *-Nitto dirt drop stem in MT-10 in a 10cm for a 25.4 bar. *
> *-berhoud saddle- flexible on the model. *
> *-pedal cage- type that doesn’t require straps. *
> *-saddle bag large- open to any type *
> *-saddle bag mid-open to any type *
> *-saddle bag smallish but would be able to carry a tools inner tube and a
> wool sweater. *
> *-bosco aluminum bars in 58 width *
> *-RH rat trap extra lights x2 *
> *-silver crank triple in 170 *
> *-26inch wheel set with 8 or higher rear hub. *
> *-mks rx- 1 pedals*
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Ben Miller]

argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious 
>>>>>> to read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone 
>>>>>> else's belief which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences 
>>>>>> with larger tires and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire 
>>>>>> roll 
>>>>>> or collapse on cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire 
>>>>>> pressure. I've had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on 
>>>>>> a 
>>>>>> DT Swiss 40mm rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires 
>>>>>> from 38 to 42mm. As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion 
>>>>>> was 
>>>>>> simply the j hook that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's 
>>>>>> but 
>>>>>> good god $165 per rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. 
>>>>>> Although I can't recall where I heard this but they were difficult to 
>>>>>> set 
>>>>>> up tubeless? I may be wrong on this matter. If you have first had 
>>>>>> experience with the Pacenti I'm happy to listen/hear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best, 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~Hugh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
>>>>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Hugh,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and 
>>>>>>> yeah as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to 
>>>>>>> offer a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan 
>>>>>>> of 
>>>>>>> Bicycle Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't 
>>>>>>> effect 
>>>>>>> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very 
>>>>>>> subject 
>>>>>>> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
>>>>>>> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on 
>>>>>>> Velocity 
>>>>>>> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of 
>>>>>>> the best things about building up bikes because you get to express 
>>>>>>> that. 
>>>>>>> I'm sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best 
>>>>>>> of 
>>>>>>> luck.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO 
>>>>>>>> touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 
>>>>>>>> 2.35 
>>>>>>>> G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up 
>>>>>>>> very 
>>>>>>>> easily tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have 
>>>>>>>> minimal resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free 
>>>>>>>> hub 
>>>>>>>> as medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as 
>>>>>>>> being 
>>>>>>>> unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything 
>>>>>>>> that 
>>>>>>>> makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did 
>>>>>>>> quiet 
>>>>>>>> it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect 
>>>>>

[RBW] Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Ben Miller]

The "Path Less Pedaled" YouTube channel just released a video with the 
provocative title "Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better? 
" 

The actual video is a lot less provocative. Basically Russ comparing his 
Hillborne to his Bombora. Still interesting, but maybe less so than it 
could be? 

I imagine Crust and Rivendell must get compared to each other a lot. I know 
that their the only two bike frames I currently own and ride, so I do it 
more or less constantly. I imagine that this is partly due to Matt & Bene 
purposefully designing the Romanceur frame with the Rivendell aesthetic in 
mind. I think Russ sort of touches on that, when comparing the Bombora to 
the All City and the Hillborne to the Richtey. He seems to be saying, the 
Ritchey/All City aesthetic lacked something the Riv/Crust bikes had. 

Anyways, I think of Crust as threadless, disc, and low trail compared to 
Rivendell with rim brakes, quill stems, and high trail. Like most thing's 
not hard and fast (see: Canti Lightning Bolt). What's your hot take on the 
two?

I think both bike companies are really doing some amazing and important 
stuff for the bike industry. What I think would be really interesting 
collaboration between Grant and Matt. Maybe something along the lines of 
the Soma San Marcos, but both providing inputs. That'd be really cool!

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Ben Miller]

Some interesting ideas here! 

Mark says: "Clapton, Page Beck, or Mick Taylor. (It's obviously Peter 
Green)lol." Well, I can't think Clapton, Beck and Page without thinking 
about Supergroups. So maybe I am thinking too small here... What about a 
collaboration between Grant, Matt, and JP? Petersen, Whitehead, and 
Weigle???  Haha

On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 9:34:49 AM UTC-8 philipr...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> OT on...
>
> English = from the country of England
> British = from the countries of England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Island
>
> Growing up in post war Britain was drab, dreary & dark. While the US was 
> enjoying the greatest economic boom in history & the sun shone every day in 
> Southern California the British were still under rationing, plagued with 
> unemployment, industrial unrest & surrounded by the toll (both physical and 
> emotional) extracted by a total war. In other words, it was cold, dark, 
> gloomy, there were 2 channels on the TV, when the miners went on strike the 
> power went out and there was generally f*** all to do. So if you picked up 
> a musical instrument you had both the time & the inclination (get me the 
> hell out of here) to get really good at it!
>
> Combine all that time with latent talent and a ready supply of "exotic" 
> music brought back across the pond by merchant seaman and you had a 
> primordial stew just ready to produce winged flight. Then a lot of begating 
> started. It was a moment in time unlikely to ever repeat itself 
> unfortunately.
>
> Now check out Rory Gallagher (who was Irish actually), I'll start you off 
> here - 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlEfyMoR49M_channel=thanasisSkrepMetalo
>
> Back to our regularly scheduled programming...
>
> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 11:15:43 AM UTC-6 Daman Mohan Kumar 
> wrote:
>
>> Firstly, apologies for the off-topic comment. Every last one of those 
>> guitarists Mark mentioned are English (or British, this is one of those 
>> things I absolutely cannot wrap my head around no matter how many times I 
>> read about it).
>>
>> No further comments, though - I just found it incredibly interesting how 
>> that bunch of stellar musicians came out of the same region.
>>
>> Daman
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 8:33:43 PM UTC-8 Mark Schneider wrote:
>>
>>> I deliberately didn't bother to watch it because it's a stupid click 
>>> bate title and a ridiculous premise. Like Ben stated they're both great 
>>> bikes, but quite different. My custom Terafrerrma is nothing like my Masi, 
>>> or my Homer or Atlantis. If I'm going on a long fastish ride but want my 
>>> camera in my bag in front of me I take the low trail custom. I use the old 
>>> Masi if I just want to ride hard and fast. But most the time I just chill 
>>> on one of the Rivendell's that are still fast, fun, and plush.
>>> I found the idea as ridiculous as people arguing who's better, Clapton, 
>>> Page Beck, or Mick Taylor. (It's obviously Peter Green)lol.
>>> I'm sure I'll watch the video eventually, Russ does a great job and he's 
>>> level headed and fair. 
>>>
>>> Mark 
>>> Half Moon Bay area
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-8 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> The "Path Less Pedaled" YouTube channel just released a video with the 
>>>> provocative title "Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better? 
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0hM8ZSBRl0>" 
>>>>
>>>> The actual video is a lot less provocative. Basically Russ comparing 
>>>> his Hillborne to his Bombora. Still interesting, but maybe less so than it 
>>>> could be? 
>>>>
>>>> I imagine Crust and Rivendell must get compared to each other a lot. I 
>>>> know that their the only two bike frames I currently own and ride, so I do 
>>>> it more or less constantly. I imagine that this is partly due to Matt & 
>>>> Bene purposefully designing the Romanceur frame with the Rivendell 
>>>> aesthetic in mind. I think Russ sort of touches on that, when comparing 
>>>> the 
>>>> Bombora to the All City and the Hillborne to the Richtey. He seems to be 
>>>> saying, the Ritchey/All City aesthetic lacked something the Riv/Crust 
>>>> bikes 
>>>> had. 
>>>>
>>>> Anyways, I think of Crust as threadless, disc, and low trail compared 
>>>> to Rivendell with rim brakes, quill stems, and high trail. Like most 
>>>> thing's n

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Ben Miller]

Well, I guess this thread has gone entirely OT.

On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 6:03:33 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley wrote:

> Richard Thompson is of the best I’ve seen. And a great songwriter. Right 
> now I’m leaning towards Robert Fripp but it’s hard to argue against 
> Thompson. 
>
> As far as bikes go, for me old Riv > Crust while Crust > new Riv. I can’t 
> really get into a lot of the newer frames Riv has put out but I love the 
> older models. I’m a Riv retrogrouch I guess.
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 10, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Mike Godwin  wrote:
>
> Actually its Richard Thompson
>
>
> Mike SLO CA
>
> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:17:49 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Totally agree on the Crust / Riv collaboration frame. That would be 
>> really neat. I love the idea of single-batch collaboration runs like this, 
>> and it would be cool to see more of them.  I tried to publicly connect 
>> Ocean Air Cycles and Rivendell to spark a MIT run of their Rambler frameset 
>> but it didn't work haha. 
>>
>> I imagine that collaborative frame being fairly sporty tubing but tons of 
>> tire clearance, and pretty long in the TT for upright bars or zero-reach 
>> drop setups 
>>
>> On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 at 20:03:14 UTC-8 Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I think both bike companies are really doing some amazing and important 
>>> stuff for the bike industry. What I think would be really interesting 
>>> collaboration between Grant and Matt. Maybe something along the lines of 
>>> the Soma San Marcos, but both providing inputs. That'd be really cool!
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Ben Miller]

it's good or bad, but the jumpy edits could be argued to 
>>> be good because they do create a feeling of energy/excitement by 
>>> eliminating long pauses. 
>>>
>>> I could be (and usually am) totally wrong and Russ just throws these 
>>> together without thinking about it. But I think knowing his tendencies and 
>>> background, I'd say he means to do it.
>>>
>>> If it turns you off, that's totally fair and I'm not saying it 
>>> shouldn't. He reminds me of John Green's YouTube videos...same kind of 
>>> editing, no dead space, frenetic and fast paced energy, etc... 
>>>
>>> Ben "not an expert on video editing theory" in Omaha 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-6 Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
>>>> Laing wrote:* I get a big kick out of all the people with commentary 
>>>> on a video that they did not watch. *
>>>> The PLP post is titled Rivendell vs. Crust. Which is Better?  There are 
>>>> no models in the title, and that is what brings it to the realm of 
>>>> clickbait. The OP also states right up front that the video is less 
>>>> provocative.  Generally, Rivendell vs. Crust, some of the qualities that 
>>>> separate them are disc brakes, more conventional chainstay lengths, and 
>>>> yes, low trail. Based on the thrust of the thread starter, I would say 
>>>> perfectly legitimate to comment without bothering to watch the actual 
>>>> video 
>>>> referenced. Obviously a Sam Hillborne does not qualify as low trail. It 
>>>> may 
>>>> be lower trail than bike x, but not low trail. I did find it mildly 
>>>> amusing 
>>>> that he was noting the differences between 42.5 and 45.5 chainstays. He 
>>>> should try a Susie!
>>>>
>>>> From an aesthetic point of view, I find his videos hard to watch due to 
>>>> the editing/splicing. I wish he would let the camera roll through a bit 
>>>> more--maybe he could have a cheat board of notes if he can't talk 
>>>> extemporaneously. As it is, the video is noticeably spliced after every 
>>>> sentence or two.  Maybe this is normal these days with vlogs, and it's 
>>>> just 
>>>> me being old. Oh well.
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 8:26:38 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I get a big kick out of all the people with commentary on a video that 
>>>>> they did not watch. As Tom pointed out, the Sam Hillborne is the "low 
>>>>> trail" bike in this comparison - you need to watch the video to know what 
>>>>> is in it. Note that I have one Crust (Scapegoat) and 12 Rivendells.
>>>>>
>>>>> One word on guitarists: Hendrix.
>>>>>
>>>>> Laing
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 8:09:04 AM UTC-5 Tom M wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, the particular Crust Russ is reviewing isn't low trail — he 
>>>>>> said it's 76 or 75 mm. I don't have a particular dog in the fight, and I 
>>>>>> enjoyed the video and don't consider it click-bait. As Russ said, he 
>>>>>> gets 
>>>>>> asked this type of question all the time, so why not do a video?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And re: guitarists—thanks to Philip for the Rory Gallagher link. I'd 
>>>>>> never heard of him but will now check him out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Milani
>>>>>> Alexandria, VA USA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 2:18:44 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which - to be clear - is my response to the premise of the thread 
>>>>>>> which is the premise of the Path Less Pedaled thing. I'm not objecting 
>>>>>>> to 
>>>>>>> the thread being a thread. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe "let me say this about that" Bernard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:02:16 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think a Riv vs. anything low trail really counts as a 
>>>>>>>> comparison, it's two very different approaches to what is considered 
>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>> "righ

[RBW] Re: Ride Report

[Ben Miller]

Irv, 

Very inspiring. Looking and feeling great at any age is impressive, but to 
do it for so long is truly great. Hope to hear more of your radical 
adventures.

Ben

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 5:36:29 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> Hi Irv,
>
> That is a fantastic write-up. How do you stay in such good shape to ride 
> that much? I am in my late thirties now and would love to continue riding 
> as many years as you have. Also post a picture of your Appaloosa with your 
> full load of camping gear!
>
> Michael
>
> On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 1:27:32 PM UTC-4 Irv Hoffman wrote:
>
>> Thought someone might be interested in this story which appears in the 
>> current *Atlanta* magazine.
>> All my rides were on a Romulus except my recent ride from ATL to Key West 
>> and back which was on a new Appaloosa. All were self contained with full 
>> loads. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ben Miller]

Thanks Joe, 

I think I'll try the chain first and see if that fixes it. Hopefully it 
will, since my GF is not terribly interested in barcons or DT shifters (it 
actually had barcons originally and I replaced those at her request with 
the R9).

Ben
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:59:23 PM UTC-7 Ed Carolipio wrote:

> I suggest using an FD for a road triple or a mountain triple (instead of a 
> road double) with the 38-24 cranks as those are just the middle and inner 
> chainrings the FD expects in a triple. The 105 is designed for a very large 
> outer ring (around 50-ish) in a compact double crankset (43.5mm chainline).
>
> Shimano CX-70 is a popular choice - as Bill points out - and it's designed 
> around a 46-30 compact crankset. The new GRX FD would probably work as well 
> since that is designed for a 46-29 compact crankset, though I don't have 
> direct experience with it.
>
> I like to run a mountain triple (the venerable Shimano Deore M-591) with 
> the 38-24 as well the 34-24 (low-low) and the 42-26 (Sugino XD600 with a 
> chainguard as outer ring) from Riv. I have also used a Shimano Sora FD-3030 
> with good success:
>
> https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/FD-R3030-B.html
>  
> --Ed C.
>
> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:26:47 PM UTC-7 Erik wrote:
>
>> I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked up 
>> from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together beautifully, 
>> until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano 105-5700 for a 
>> 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 38 / 24.  The cage 
>> on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct spacing between 
>> the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up hitting the chain 
>> stay when I shift.  
>>
>> Does anyone else on here have a similar set up with a wide / low double? 
>>  If so, what front derailleur do you use?  For the life of me, I can't 
>> figure out a suitable replacement for the 105 and am dreading trying to 
>> find one for sale anywhere.
>>
>> Any thoughts or advice?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ben Miller]

I've not ridden it, just shifted it in the bike stand, where it seems to 
shift fine. On the bike stand it is obviously not under load, which is an 
important point since it seems the chain is always getting stuck when she 
is shifting under power. 

The shifter is a Microshift R9, which is indexed. But the downshift simply 
releases all the tension, (returning the FD to the lowest possible 
position). I guess maybe that could be an issue since maybe the abrupt 
action is too violent compared to a smooth human actuated downshift?

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:36:00 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Have you ridden the GF's bike to see what's going on with the shifting? Is 
> she using a friction shifter or index? If index, it may not work with what 
> crank. 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:13:18 AM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:
>
>> I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
>> place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
>> worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
>> it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
>> chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
>> chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
>> it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
>> but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
>> thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
>> life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
>> chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
>> would work better with a 10 spd chain?
>>
>> On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is getting 
>> the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any shortcuts/tips to 
>> this?
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using an 
>>> 8 or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain bike 
>>> triple.
>>>
>>> Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash guard 
>>> and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to be 
>>> positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to clear 
>>> the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the chain 
>>> onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of a 44 t 
>>> ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" position.
>>>
>>> The matching curves is purely fortuitous.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Patrick that looks great. 
>>>> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
>>>> fd cage.
>>>> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or 
>>>> removing altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you 
>>>> regardless.
>>>>
>>>> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
>>>> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places 
>>>> it a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>>>>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect 
>>>> to that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
>>>> really high for the middle ring)?
>>>> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
>>>> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
>>>> those, no?
>>>> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
>>>> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
>>>> course)
>>>>
>>>> - Matthew 
>>>> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
>>>> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
>>>> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
>>>> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
>>>> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
>>>> P
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ben Miller]

I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
would work better with a 10 spd chain?

On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is getting 
the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any shortcuts/tips to 
this?

Ben

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using an 8 
> or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain bike 
> triple.
>
> Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash guard 
> and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to be 
> positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to clear 
> the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the chain 
> onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of a 44 t 
> ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" position.
>
> The matching curves is purely fortuitous.
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  wrote:
>
>> Patrick that looks great. 
>> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
>> fd cage.
>> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or removing 
>> altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you regardless.
>>
>> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
>> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places it 
>> a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect to 
>> that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
>> really high for the middle ring)?
>> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
>> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
>> those, no?
>> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
>> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
>> course)
>>
>> - Matthew 
>> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
>> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
>> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
>> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
>> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
>> P
>
>

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Re: [RBW] wheel weight and acceleration?

[Ben Miller]

Wheel weight vis a vis moment of inertia matters almost nothing to the 
modern bicycle. Based upon normal human power outputs (100 W), cruising 
speeds (6 m/s), and wheel sizes (.35 m) , a bicycle's wheel based upon 
moment of interia alone comes up to speed in fractions of a second. The 
difference of a 2 kg wheelset and 1 kg wheelset is a factor of 2 difference 
in this time, but it happens so quickly this is not the phenomenon 
determining the overall acceleration of the bike  (.025 s for a 1 kg  vs 
.05 s for 2 kg)*. This is opposed to the many seconds it will take the full 
bike plus rider to get up to that speed (84.6 s with a 80 kg rider and 10 
kg bike). Rolling resistance will play a much larger roll than the moment 
of inertia of wheel in determining acceleration (which I have left out).

Go ahead and put you bike in the bike stand. A quarter turn with moderate 
arm strength will get the will up to speed in a fraction of a second. And 
the mechanics of your arms is producing a lot less power than you can 
sitting on a bike. Doubling you wheel weight will double this time, but 
because it is so small to begin with the overall effect on the bicycle is 
negligible. 

If it were true that it effected the bike, than as Laing pointed out, bike 
racers would want the smallest possible wheels (as the radius of wheel 
effects the moment of inertia much more than the weight). The TdF riders 
would be looking to get the smallest wheels possible, which they are not. 

Much like how angular momentum is not really effecting the handling of the 
bike, it is also not effecting the acceleration of the bike. This is 
because the weight of the wheelset is so small compared to the weight of 
the bike plus rider. 

Ben

*If this seems too fast, it's because it is. But I didn't want to solve the 
PDE for non-constant power output, and the human body definitely can *not* 
produce peak power from a dead start. But even with power curve it will 
happen very fast. If I recall my math correctly a linear curve will double 
the time, putting it the range of a tenth of a second which is starting to 
seem reasonable. 
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 3:08:20 PM UTC-7 Adam wrote:

> Thanks for all the thoughts.
>
> Someone asked if I'd weighed the wheels, unfortunately I don't have a 
> scale.
>
> Maybe I'll swap the tires sometime. Not really my end goal, but would help 
> me understand what's going on.
>
> Just curious if anyone on here has ever swapped from a heavier wheelset to 
> a lighter one on one of the burlier Rivs?
>
> There's a somewhat absurd aspect to my curiosity, since I bought the 
> Hillborne to have something livelier than the Marrakesh, but now the ride 
> of the Hillborne makes it hard to use the Marrakesh. I intended to keep the 
> Hillborne on road and use the Marrakesh for gravel and light singletrack 
> but have been taking the Hillborne for those rides too. The only real 
> "problem" is that I've banged my fenders up a bit and would rather be using 
> the bosco bar and knobby tires of the Marrakesh off-road.
>
> Anyway, regardless of practical stuff, it's good to understand the effects 
> of different wheels.
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 4:54:12 PM UTC-4 David Person wrote:
>
>> Adam, good choice on the Barlow Pass tires.  I ran a set on my Hillborne 
>> for 5 years till the rear wore out this past fall.  I switched to 
>> Snoqualmie Pass tires for a bit more cush.  I have them mounted on Dyad 
>> rims and they measure 41mm wide, where the BPs measured 35mm, if I 
>> remember.  Tried a pair of Oracle Ridge but they were a bit on the large 
>> size.  They would fit but hard to get the rear wheel on and off.  In my 
>> opinion, the Snoqualmies ride/handle/respond very much like the Barlows 
>> with a bit more tire volume to soak up the bumps.  Not an answer to the 
>> exact question you were asking, but wanted to congratulate you on your tire 
>> choice and give my two cents.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:17:03 PM UTC-7 philipr...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> So we're back to #1 - light tires & tubes. Followed by #2 - light rims & 
>>> spokes.
>>>
>>> No one else want to chime in on friction? How much slip does say, a 
>>> semi-knobby tire like the Cazadero allow compared to the RH & is that 
>>> noticeable when accelerating?
>>>
>>> Inboard brakes are a thing of beauty & danger, I believe the Lotus 72 F1 
>>> car may have been the 1st to implement. The problem has been the load on 
>>> the half shaft which, according to the inquest, the associated failure of 
>>> that was the cause of Rindt's fatal crash in that car.
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 3:07:59 PM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:
>>>
 The comparison to motor vehicle unsprung weight may parallel 
 bicyclists' focus on wheel and tire weight but available horsepower of 
 even 
 weak engines makes all but the most competitive motor vehicles seem sloppy 
 with their unsprung, wheel and tire weights comparatively. 

Re: [RBW] My Rambouillet Build

[Ben Miller]

Thanks for all kind words everyone! Especially Andy in Pittsburgh and Evan 
for sharing their gorgeous Orange Ram builds! 

Tommy: No, as noted, I bought this frame wy back in 2017 from list 
member Keith. It sounds like you bought and sold yours during that time 
frame. Which just emphasizes how long I've been sitting on this project. 
*Sigh* Yours maybe looks like a slightly darker green? Hard to tell from 
the photos though.

Jason: I used grey Jagwire housing for my build. Velo Orange's metallic 
braided housing looks very nice, but I had this already. It sounds like 
Mark is a better resource for setting up non-aero brakes, I just eyeballed 
it. And I don't know the code or official name of the green color.

Bruce: Yes, I do believe my frame is an early run. It also has an 
interesting feature of two retaining screws holding on the headbadge. Very 
interesting about the lugs! I wonder why Grant changed them. Were they're 
any other changes between runs?

Jay: I think you meant to ask Bruce where he got his painted (I haven't 
repainted a bike yet). Rivendell has a webpage about painters though, 
recommending Rick of D painting and Joe Bell.

Eric: What is the name of that doohicky?? 

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 8:43:24 AM UTC-8 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Zip ties? Ha! There’s special part for that:
>
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy  
>
> On Feb 14, 2021, at 8:30 PM, Mark Roland  wrote:
>
> Any regular cable housing will give you that swoop. Crossing the cables 
> can give them a bit more support. Some people zip tie them together here. 
> These days I usually top mine out about a hand's length maybe a smidge more 
> from the top of the tops to the high point of the arch. That's about as low 
> as you want to go; after that the cable can potentially exit the lever at 
> too severe of an angle, causing it to prematurely wear and possibly affect 
> braking performance. Right now four of my four roadworthy road bikes are 
> non-aero.( Photo angle can also make them look longer or shorter.)
>
> 
>
> 
> On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 4:45:19 PM UTC-5 J Schwartz wrote:
>
>> I love this Rambouillet and it's decently wide gearing range.  Looks very 
>> comfy.
>>
>> I'm in the process of building up a similar Canti-Romdowntube 
>> shifters and non-aero levers.
>> Curious if there's a trick to get non-aero housing to swoop up and down 
>> gracefully like that?  Is there a type or brand that is best suited for 
>> this?
>> Also, does anyone know the name or code for this Ram color?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, February 13, 2021 at 9:36:52 AM UTC-5 Tommy Patterson wrote:
>>
>>> I owned a 64cm sage green Ram recently... Do you have my old bike!? I 
>>> think our timelines are different. I bought mine from a used shop in 
>>> western NC in spring 2018 and sold it to a list member in summer 2019. I 
>>> liked almost everything about that bike but got interested in a BMC MCD and 
>>> let it go. In retrospect, I regret selling that bike and I am eagerly 
>>> anticipating the Roadinis coming back in stock this year. Here are two 
>>> photos of my sage green Ram. 
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 4:32 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Fellow RBW Owners,
>>>>
>>>> Wanted to do a little update on my Rambouillet build in progress, now 
>>>> that it is actually taking form.
>>>>
>>>> First, a little bit of background. I've been lucky enough to have built 
>>>> up four (4!) Riv bikes already, but this is really shaping up to be a 
>>>> truly 
>>>> unique one for me. This Ram’s story started (for me) way back in late 2017 
>>>> with me purchasing it off fellow list member Keith as a F/F/HS. 
>>>> Unfortunately a number of not so great life events happened shortly after 
>>>> that, including fracturing my leg, taking me off the bike for nearly 6 
>>>> months. The frame moved with me down a new path in life, but mostly 
>>>> collected dust in my garage. Not forgotten or abandoned, but definitely a 
>>>> bit lonely while I worked on 2 more bikes that were more recently 
>>>> acquired. 
>>>> During this time I quietly acquired used parts and ideas that eventually 
>>>> coalesced into a build for the Rambouillet.
>>>>
>>>> The Ram frame itself is 64 cm painted with a beautiful sage green with 
>>>> a bit of pearl iridescent to it. It has a couple of small paint chips on 
>>>> the non-drive side seatstay, but otherwise in pristine c

[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Sonoma Coast

[Ben Miller]

Hi Kushan,

Welcome! Nice orange Roadini! I have an orange Roadeo :) I did a very 
similar ride at the start of this year, beginning in Occidental, but 
instead of the route you linked to, we went up Coleman Valley Rd, which is 
a very hard but amazing climb. I agree it's beautiful up there!

Cheers,
Ben

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 7:16:58 PM UTC-7 Kushan wrote:

> Hi all - 
>
> I am new to this group and thought I'd start by posting about a recent 
> ride.
>
> I had some free-time yesterday so decided take my recently acquired Leo 
> (Roadini), my first Riv, for a venture to Sonoma county. I have wanting to 
> do a good long ride since I got the bike and the Sonoma Coast route 
>  designed by a local bike club had the 
> potential to make my day. 
>
> This turned out to be the best day on a bike in a while. It included 
> redwoods, fog covered green hills, a river, several beaches, and multiple 
> walks of shame (despite my 28t ring) on remote but ridiculously steep 
> hills. Some of the single lane roads were so remote that I didn't see 
> another soul for miles. All the good stuff that fills you with gratefulness 
> and remind you of how lucky you are to be living a paradise like California 
> (with 10% state income tax, mind you). 
>
> Anyways - enough words, here are some of my favorite pictures 
> 
>  from 
> the ride... 
>
> Best
> Kushan
>

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