Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Philip Williamson]

I think Hwy 41 might be the NorCal/SoCal cutoff, which is weird, since like
all odd-numbered freeways, it’s technically a north-south road.

It angles in the west, but heads straight north in the east, putting Morro
Bay, Kettleman City, Fresno, and Yosemite and Lee Vining all on the
dividing line. Which I would accept. That feels pretty solid.

Philip
“The eights go east and the fives go north.”



On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 6:35 PM Mike Godwin  wrote:

> Vons on "The" 101 starts in Paso Robles, though I've never shopped there.
> I have shopped at the Safeway in Atascadero, SLO, King City, Salinas,
> Gilroy, Hollister, and Morgan Hill.
>
> Mike "no longer in "the" bay area Godwin SLO CA
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:33:26 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> Wesley - thanks for the excellent information!  Yes, in the area where I
>> live - Northeastern Chicago suburbs - some of the stores owned by the now
>> defunct local chain "Dominick's" were taken over and remodeled by a more
>> local chain "Mariano's".  That chain has since been taken over by the the
>> Kroger dynasty and some of those grocery's are not fairing well.
>> Meanwhile, a larger local chain, "Jewell," has long since been taken over
>> by the massive Albertsons.  So a merger between those two conglomerates
>> comes as no surprise, though it does come with a bit of fear and loathing.
>> Once the two giants merge (assuming the FTC allows it) they can manipulate
>> pricing and availability all over the map.  I doubt that this would be a
>> good thing for the average consumer, but such seems to be the way things in
>> general retail are going nowadays.
>> George
>> P.S. Sorry this thread drifted from NoCal riding weather to the food
>> supply industry, but it's all good info.
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 4:06:49 PM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, I almost forgot: two months ago, Kroger and Albertsons announced a
>>> plan to merge. They are the two biggest grocery chains in the US, and I do
>>> not know whether the federal government will try to stop the merger. In
>>> California, that would mean Ralphs would join the
>>> Vonn's/Safeway/Albertson's/Pavilion's family of brands. Here are lists of
>>> the stores that would be involved in the merger:
>>>
>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-12-21 at 1.59.54 PM.png][image: Screen Shot
>>> 2022-12-21 at 1.59.40 PM.png]
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:51:32 PM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:
>>>
 George,
 When a two grocery chains merge to create a new, larger chain, they
 would prefer to close down any of their stores that compete with each other
 right away. It's the federal government that stops them, because then they
 could raise prices with less competition. So instead they underinvest in
 the stores they don't want. When they are required to sell some stores to a
 competitor, they do whatever they can to make sure those stores aren't
 successful for their new owners. Kroger and Albertsons both want to be
 monopolies, and they are good at pursuing that goal.
 -Wes

 On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:26:18 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:

> Wesley - thanks for that info.  It explains why we have had the
> closures of certain grocery stores in our area that have ultimately been
> taken over by larger chains, but retained their original identity.  But
> many of these "overtaken" groceries have eventually declined in product
> availability and produce value over time, which makes me wonder what the
> intent of the larger "take over" chain had in mind to begin with.  Unless
> their strategy may have been to take over all of the subordinate chain
> stores (required by law, as you say) and gradually ferret out the money
> losers as time goes along, eventually closing some of those stores and
> keeping others open.  I'm sure it's a difficult market strategy.
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 12:54:00 PM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:
>
>> The multiplicity is because when large grocery chains merge, the
>> federal government often requires the new, larger, chain to keep the
>> original stores open. In cases like where you now have two Safeways in 
>> the
>> same mall, Safeway will generally be required to sell one to a competitor
>> rather than close it. This is all part of an effort to avoid monopolies 
>> in
>> grocery stores.
>> -Wes
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 5:52:20 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 1-2) King City (on 101) and Fresno (on Hwy 99) appear to be the
>>> southernmost outposts of Safeway on major highways. It looks like Vons
>>> picks up in Bakersfield (99) and Goleta, outside Santa Barbara (101).
>>> Interstate 5 is on the dry west side of the San Joaquin Valley, so it
>>> doesn't really have much in the way of large towns or accompanying
>>> supermarkets; there's a Save Mart in Coalinga just 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Mike Godwin]

Vons on "The" 101 starts in Paso Robles, though I've never shopped there. I 
have shopped at the Safeway in Atascadero, SLO, King City, Salinas, Gilroy, 
Hollister, and Morgan Hill.

Mike "no longer in "the" bay area Godwin SLO CA 
On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:33:26 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:

> Wesley - thanks for the excellent information!  Yes, in the area where I 
> live - Northeastern Chicago suburbs - some of the stores owned by the now 
> defunct local chain "Dominick's" were taken over and remodeled by a more 
> local chain "Mariano's".  That chain has since been taken over by the the 
> Kroger dynasty and some of those grocery's are not fairing well.  
> Meanwhile, a larger local chain, "Jewell," has long since been taken over 
> by the massive Albertsons.  So a merger between those two conglomerates 
> comes as no surprise, though it does come with a bit of fear and loathing.  
> Once the two giants merge (assuming the FTC allows it) they can manipulate 
> pricing and availability all over the map.  I doubt that this would be a 
> good thing for the average consumer, but such seems to be the way things in 
> general retail are going nowadays.
> George
> P.S. Sorry this thread drifted from NoCal riding weather to the food 
> supply industry, but it's all good info.
>
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 4:06:49 PM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:
>
>> Oh, I almost forgot: two months ago, Kroger and Albertsons announced a 
>> plan to merge. They are the two biggest grocery chains in the US, and I do 
>> not know whether the federal government will try to stop the merger. In 
>> California, that would mean Ralphs would join the 
>> Vonn's/Safeway/Albertson's/Pavilion's family of brands. Here are lists of 
>> the stores that would be involved in the merger:
>>
>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-12-21 at 1.59.54 PM.png][image: Screen Shot 
>> 2022-12-21 at 1.59.40 PM.png]
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:51:32 PM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:
>>
>>> George,
>>> When a two grocery chains merge to create a new, larger chain, they 
>>> would prefer to close down any of their stores that compete with each other 
>>> right away. It's the federal government that stops them, because then they 
>>> could raise prices with less competition. So instead they underinvest in 
>>> the stores they don't want. When they are required to sell some stores to a 
>>> competitor, they do whatever they can to make sure those stores aren't 
>>> successful for their new owners. Kroger and Albertsons both want to be 
>>> monopolies, and they are good at pursuing that goal.
>>> -Wes
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:26:18 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>>
 Wesley - thanks for that info.  It explains why we have had the 
 closures of certain grocery stores in our area that have ultimately been 
 taken over by larger chains, but retained their original identity.  But 
 many of these "overtaken" groceries have eventually declined in product 
 availability and produce value over time, which makes me wonder what the 
 intent of the larger "take over" chain had in mind to begin with.  Unless 
 their strategy may have been to take over all of the subordinate chain 
 stores (required by law, as you say) and gradually ferret out the money 
 losers as time goes along, eventually closing some of those stores and 
 keeping others open.  I'm sure it's a difficult market strategy.
 On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 12:54:00 PM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:

> The multiplicity is because when large grocery chains merge, the 
> federal government often requires the new, larger, chain to keep the 
> original stores open. In cases like where you now have two Safeways in 
> the 
> same mall, Safeway will generally be required to sell one to a competitor 
> rather than close it. This is all part of an effort to avoid monopolies 
> in 
> grocery stores.
> -Wes
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 5:52:20 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> 1-2) King City (on 101) and Fresno (on Hwy 99) appear to be the 
>> southernmost outposts of Safeway on major highways. It looks like Vons 
>> picks up in Bakersfield (99) and Goleta, outside Santa Barbara (101). 
>> Interstate 5 is on the dry west side of the San Joaquin Valley, so it 
>> doesn't really have much in the way of large towns or accompanying 
>> supermarkets; there's a Save Mart in Coalinga just off the highway, and 
>> another in Visalia on 99.
>>
>> Bakersfield has two Vons and three Wal-Marts.
>>
>> 3) Something similar happened up here in the Bay Area about 12 years 
>> ago, when a small local chain named Andronico's* went under. Safeway 
>> bought 
>> up all the Andronico's real estate and outstanding leases, converting 
>> the 
>> store on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto (across the street 
>> from Chez Panisse, in 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[George Schick]

Wesley - thanks for the excellent information!  Yes, in the area where I 
live - Northeastern Chicago suburbs - some of the stores owned by the now 
defunct local chain "Dominick's" were taken over and remodeled by a more 
local chain "Mariano's".  That chain has since been taken over by the the 
Kroger dynasty and some of those grocery's are not fairing well.  
Meanwhile, a larger local chain, "Jewell," has long since been taken over 
by the massive Albertsons.  So a merger between those two conglomerates 
comes as no surprise, though it does come with a bit of fear and loathing.  
Once the two giants merge (assuming the FTC allows it) they can manipulate 
pricing and availability all over the map.  I doubt that this would be a 
good thing for the average consumer, but such seems to be the way things in 
general retail are going nowadays.
George
P.S. Sorry this thread drifted from NoCal riding weather to the food supply 
industry, but it's all good info.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 4:06:49 PM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:

> Oh, I almost forgot: two months ago, Kroger and Albertsons announced a 
> plan to merge. They are the two biggest grocery chains in the US, and I do 
> not know whether the federal government will try to stop the merger. In 
> California, that would mean Ralphs would join the 
> Vonn's/Safeway/Albertson's/Pavilion's family of brands. Here are lists of 
> the stores that would be involved in the merger:
>
> [image: Screen Shot 2022-12-21 at 1.59.54 PM.png][image: Screen Shot 
> 2022-12-21 at 1.59.40 PM.png]
>
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:51:32 PM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:
>
>> George,
>> When a two grocery chains merge to create a new, larger chain, they would 
>> prefer to close down any of their stores that compete with each other right 
>> away. It's the federal government that stops them, because then they could 
>> raise prices with less competition. So instead they underinvest in the 
>> stores they don't want. When they are required to sell some stores to a 
>> competitor, they do whatever they can to make sure those stores aren't 
>> successful for their new owners. Kroger and Albertsons both want to be 
>> monopolies, and they are good at pursuing that goal.
>> -Wes
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:26:18 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> Wesley - thanks for that info.  It explains why we have had the closures 
>>> of certain grocery stores in our area that have ultimately been taken over 
>>> by larger chains, but retained their original identity.  But many of these 
>>> "overtaken" groceries have eventually declined in product availability and 
>>> produce value over time, which makes me wonder what the intent of the 
>>> larger "take over" chain had in mind to begin with.  Unless their strategy 
>>> may have been to take over all of the subordinate chain stores (required by 
>>> law, as you say) and gradually ferret out the money losers as time goes 
>>> along, eventually closing some of those stores and keeping others open.  
>>> I'm sure it's a difficult market strategy.
>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 12:54:00 PM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:
>>>
 The multiplicity is because when large grocery chains merge, the 
 federal government often requires the new, larger, chain to keep the 
 original stores open. In cases like where you now have two Safeways in the 
 same mall, Safeway will generally be required to sell one to a competitor 
 rather than close it. This is all part of an effort to avoid monopolies in 
 grocery stores.
 -Wes

 On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 5:52:20 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> 1-2) King City (on 101) and Fresno (on Hwy 99) appear to be the 
> southernmost outposts of Safeway on major highways. It looks like Vons 
> picks up in Bakersfield (99) and Goleta, outside Santa Barbara (101). 
> Interstate 5 is on the dry west side of the San Joaquin Valley, so it 
> doesn't really have much in the way of large towns or accompanying 
> supermarkets; there's a Save Mart in Coalinga just off the highway, and 
> another in Visalia on 99.
>
> Bakersfield has two Vons and three Wal-Marts.
>
> 3) Something similar happened up here in the Bay Area about 12 years 
> ago, when a small local chain named Andronico's* went under. Safeway 
> bought 
> up all the Andronico's real estate and outstanding leases, converting the 
> store on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto (across the street 
> from Chez Panisse, in the same block as the Cheese Board, two blocks from 
> the Mother Peet's) into a Safeway in spite of the fact that Safeway owned 
> a 
> newly redeveloped store one block away. Continuing further along Shattuck 
> through the Solano Tunnel to Solano Avenue, there's an 
> Andronico's-turned-Safeway about one mile away (north, roughly) from the 
> original Shattuck Safeway. Then, continuing west 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Wesley]

George,
When a two grocery chains merge to create a new, larger chain, they would 
prefer to close down any of their stores that compete with each other right 
away. It's the federal government that stops them, because then they could 
raise prices with less competition. So instead they underinvest in the 
stores they don't want. When they are required to sell some stores to a 
competitor, they do whatever they can to make sure those stores aren't 
successful for their new owners. Kroger and Albertsons both want to be 
monopolies, and they are good at pursuing that goal.
-Wes

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:26:18 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:

> Wesley - thanks for that info.  It explains why we have had the closures 
> of certain grocery stores in our area that have ultimately been taken over 
> by larger chains, but retained their original identity.  But many of these 
> "overtaken" groceries have eventually declined in product availability and 
> produce value over time, which makes me wonder what the intent of the 
> larger "take over" chain had in mind to begin with.  Unless their strategy 
> may have been to take over all of the subordinate chain stores (required by 
> law, as you say) and gradually ferret out the money losers as time goes 
> along, eventually closing some of those stores and keeping others open.  
> I'm sure it's a difficult market strategy.
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 12:54:00 PM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:
>
>> The multiplicity is because when large grocery chains merge, the federal 
>> government often requires the new, larger, chain to keep the original 
>> stores open. In cases like where you now have two Safeways in the same 
>> mall, Safeway will generally be required to sell one to a competitor rather 
>> than close it. This is all part of an effort to avoid monopolies in grocery 
>> stores.
>> -Wes
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 5:52:20 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 1-2) King City (on 101) and Fresno (on Hwy 99) appear to be the 
>>> southernmost outposts of Safeway on major highways. It looks like Vons 
>>> picks up in Bakersfield (99) and Goleta, outside Santa Barbara (101). 
>>> Interstate 5 is on the dry west side of the San Joaquin Valley, so it 
>>> doesn't really have much in the way of large towns or accompanying 
>>> supermarkets; there's a Save Mart in Coalinga just off the highway, and 
>>> another in Visalia on 99.
>>>
>>> Bakersfield has two Vons and three Wal-Marts.
>>>
>>> 3) Something similar happened up here in the Bay Area about 12 years 
>>> ago, when a small local chain named Andronico's* went under. Safeway bought 
>>> up all the Andronico's real estate and outstanding leases, converting the 
>>> store on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto (across the street 
>>> from Chez Panisse, in the same block as the Cheese Board, two blocks from 
>>> the Mother Peet's) into a Safeway in spite of the fact that Safeway owned a 
>>> newly redeveloped store one block away. Continuing further along Shattuck 
>>> through the Solano Tunnel to Solano Avenue, there's an 
>>> Andronico's-turned-Safeway about one mile away (north, roughly) from the 
>>> original Shattuck Safeway. Then, continuing west along Solano into 
>>> neighboring Albany, there's a Safeway that was always a Safeway one mile 
>>> west of the Upper Solano ex-Andronico's Safeway.
>>>
>>> I find the logic of this multiplicity confusing. And to top it off, one 
>>> mile north of the Lower Solano Safeway is El Cerrito Plaza, which contains 
>>> a Lucky's Supermarket - a chain which, like Safeway, is owned by the 
>>> Albertson's Group. The former Andronico'ses in Berkeley have been rebranded 
>>> as "Andronico's Community Markets", but the merch is much the same as the 
>>> alternating Safeways, and the same newspaper sales prices apply.
>>>
>>> If Kroger and Albertson's merge, then it'll be Buy n Large from coast to 
>>> coast outside the southeast.
>>>
>>> *originally based in SF's Inner Sunset district; they'd bought up a few 
>>> other local chains, including the two stores that the Berkeley Co-op owned 
>>> outright when they shut down in 1988 - the original store on University 
>>> Avenue (my home store, where my dad was a board member and the newspaper 
>>> publisher in the 60s) and the fancy store on Shattuck in the Gourmet 
>>> Ghetto. The land was worth more than the organization; the 99-year lease 
>>> for the Telegraph/Ashby store was sold to Whole Foods
>>>
>>> Peter "the old story was that the frontier was the Tehachapi" Adler
>>> *plus ça change, plus c'est la même supermarché *en
>>> Berkeley, CA/USA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 4:06:52 PM UTC-8 Jimmy Warren wrote:
>>>
 When a Mason-Dixon line needs to be established in CA, it'll be called 
 the Safeway-Vons line.

 Quiz: for any major north-south freeway or highway, what are the two 
 cities that straddle the Safeway-Vons line?

 Related question: King City: 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[George Schick]

Wesley - thanks for that info.  It explains why we have had the closures of 
certain grocery stores in our area that have ultimately been taken over by 
larger chains, but retained their original identity.  But many of these 
"overtaken" groceries have eventually declined in product availability and 
produce value over time, which makes me wonder what the intent of the 
larger "take over" chain had in mind to begin with.  Unless their strategy 
may have been to take over all of the subordinate chain stores (required by 
law, as you say) and gradually ferret out the money losers as time goes 
along, eventually closing some of those stores and keeping others open.  
I'm sure it's a difficult market strategy.
On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 12:54:00 PM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:

> The multiplicity is because when large grocery chains merge, the federal 
> government often requires the new, larger, chain to keep the original 
> stores open. In cases like where you now have two Safeways in the same 
> mall, Safeway will generally be required to sell one to a competitor rather 
> than close it. This is all part of an effort to avoid monopolies in grocery 
> stores.
> -Wes
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 5:52:20 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> 1-2) King City (on 101) and Fresno (on Hwy 99) appear to be the 
>> southernmost outposts of Safeway on major highways. It looks like Vons 
>> picks up in Bakersfield (99) and Goleta, outside Santa Barbara (101). 
>> Interstate 5 is on the dry west side of the San Joaquin Valley, so it 
>> doesn't really have much in the way of large towns or accompanying 
>> supermarkets; there's a Save Mart in Coalinga just off the highway, and 
>> another in Visalia on 99.
>>
>> Bakersfield has two Vons and three Wal-Marts.
>>
>> 3) Something similar happened up here in the Bay Area about 12 years ago, 
>> when a small local chain named Andronico's* went under. Safeway bought up 
>> all the Andronico's real estate and outstanding leases, converting the 
>> store on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto (across the street 
>> from Chez Panisse, in the same block as the Cheese Board, two blocks from 
>> the Mother Peet's) into a Safeway in spite of the fact that Safeway owned a 
>> newly redeveloped store one block away. Continuing further along Shattuck 
>> through the Solano Tunnel to Solano Avenue, there's an 
>> Andronico's-turned-Safeway about one mile away (north, roughly) from the 
>> original Shattuck Safeway. Then, continuing west along Solano into 
>> neighboring Albany, there's a Safeway that was always a Safeway one mile 
>> west of the Upper Solano ex-Andronico's Safeway.
>>
>> I find the logic of this multiplicity confusing. And to top it off, one 
>> mile north of the Lower Solano Safeway is El Cerrito Plaza, which contains 
>> a Lucky's Supermarket - a chain which, like Safeway, is owned by the 
>> Albertson's Group. The former Andronico'ses in Berkeley have been rebranded 
>> as "Andronico's Community Markets", but the merch is much the same as the 
>> alternating Safeways, and the same newspaper sales prices apply.
>>
>> If Kroger and Albertson's merge, then it'll be Buy n Large from coast to 
>> coast outside the southeast.
>>
>> *originally based in SF's Inner Sunset district; they'd bought up a few 
>> other local chains, including the two stores that the Berkeley Co-op owned 
>> outright when they shut down in 1988 - the original store on University 
>> Avenue (my home store, where my dad was a board member and the newspaper 
>> publisher in the 60s) and the fancy store on Shattuck in the Gourmet 
>> Ghetto. The land was worth more than the organization; the 99-year lease 
>> for the Telegraph/Ashby store was sold to Whole Foods
>>
>> Peter "the old story was that the frontier was the Tehachapi" Adler
>> *plus ça change, plus c'est la même supermarché *en
>> Berkeley, CA/USA
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 4:06:52 PM UTC-8 Jimmy Warren wrote:
>>
>>> When a Mason-Dixon line needs to be established in CA, it'll be called 
>>> the Safeway-Vons line.
>>>
>>> Quiz: for any major north-south freeway or highway, what are the two 
>>> cities that straddle the Safeway-Vons line?
>>>
>>> Related question: King City: which store do they have?
>>>
>>> Related Cliff Claven Trivia: when I was a kid growing up in Los Angeles 
>>> and San Diego suburbs, Vons and Safeway were two different stores. In 1989 
>>> they merged, and all of our Southern California Safeways got renamed Vons. 
>>> So many of our suburban shopping centers ended up with two Vons's as 
>>> anchors on either end when it used to be Safeway at one end and Vons at the 
>>> other.
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Wesley]

The multiplicity is because when large grocery chains merge, the federal 
government often requires the new, larger, chain to keep the original 
stores open. In cases like where you now have two Safeways in the same 
mall, Safeway will generally be required to sell one to a competitor rather 
than close it. This is all part of an effort to avoid monopolies in grocery 
stores.
-Wes

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 5:52:20 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

> 1-2) King City (on 101) and Fresno (on Hwy 99) appear to be the 
> southernmost outposts of Safeway on major highways. It looks like Vons 
> picks up in Bakersfield (99) and Goleta, outside Santa Barbara (101). 
> Interstate 5 is on the dry west side of the San Joaquin Valley, so it 
> doesn't really have much in the way of large towns or accompanying 
> supermarkets; there's a Save Mart in Coalinga just off the highway, and 
> another in Visalia on 99.
>
> Bakersfield has two Vons and three Wal-Marts.
>
> 3) Something similar happened up here in the Bay Area about 12 years ago, 
> when a small local chain named Andronico's* went under. Safeway bought up 
> all the Andronico's real estate and outstanding leases, converting the 
> store on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto (across the street 
> from Chez Panisse, in the same block as the Cheese Board, two blocks from 
> the Mother Peet's) into a Safeway in spite of the fact that Safeway owned a 
> newly redeveloped store one block away. Continuing further along Shattuck 
> through the Solano Tunnel to Solano Avenue, there's an 
> Andronico's-turned-Safeway about one mile away (north, roughly) from the 
> original Shattuck Safeway. Then, continuing west along Solano into 
> neighboring Albany, there's a Safeway that was always a Safeway one mile 
> west of the Upper Solano ex-Andronico's Safeway.
>
> I find the logic of this multiplicity confusing. And to top it off, one 
> mile north of the Lower Solano Safeway is El Cerrito Plaza, which contains 
> a Lucky's Supermarket - a chain which, like Safeway, is owned by the 
> Albertson's Group. The former Andronico'ses in Berkeley have been rebranded 
> as "Andronico's Community Markets", but the merch is much the same as the 
> alternating Safeways, and the same newspaper sales prices apply.
>
> If Kroger and Albertson's merge, then it'll be Buy n Large from coast to 
> coast outside the southeast.
>
> *originally based in SF's Inner Sunset district; they'd bought up a few 
> other local chains, including the two stores that the Berkeley Co-op owned 
> outright when they shut down in 1988 - the original store on University 
> Avenue (my home store, where my dad was a board member and the newspaper 
> publisher in the 60s) and the fancy store on Shattuck in the Gourmet 
> Ghetto. The land was worth more than the organization; the 99-year lease 
> for the Telegraph/Ashby store was sold to Whole Foods
>
> Peter "the old story was that the frontier was the Tehachapi" Adler
> *plus ça change, plus c'est la même supermarché *en
> Berkeley, CA/USA
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 4:06:52 PM UTC-8 Jimmy Warren wrote:
>
>> When a Mason-Dixon line needs to be established in CA, it'll be called 
>> the Safeway-Vons line.
>>
>> Quiz: for any major north-south freeway or highway, what are the two 
>> cities that straddle the Safeway-Vons line?
>>
>> Related question: King City: which store do they have?
>>
>> Related Cliff Claven Trivia: when I was a kid growing up in Los Angeles 
>> and San Diego suburbs, Vons and Safeway were two different stores. In 1989 
>> they merged, and all of our Southern California Safeways got renamed Vons. 
>> So many of our suburban shopping centers ended up with two Vons's as 
>> anchors on either end when it used to be Safeway at one end and Vons at the 
>> other.
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/77204e2f-04fc-454d-99d7-997af95f11ffn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Peter Adler]

1-2) King City (on 101) and Fresno (on Hwy 99) appear to be the 
southernmost outposts of Safeway on major highways. It looks like Vons 
picks up in Bakersfield (99) and Goleta, outside Santa Barbara (101). 
Interstate 5 is on the dry west side of the San Joaquin Valley, so it 
doesn't really have much in the way of large towns or accompanying 
supermarkets; there's a Save Mart in Coalinga just off the highway, and 
another in Visalia on 99.

Bakersfield has two Vons and three Wal-Marts.

3) Something similar happened up here in the Bay Area about 12 years ago, 
when a small local chain named Andronico's* went under. Safeway bought up 
all the Andronico's real estate and outstanding leases, converting the 
store on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto (across the street 
from Chez Panisse, in the same block as the Cheese Board, two blocks from 
the Mother Peet's) into a Safeway in spite of the fact that Safeway owned a 
newly redeveloped store one block away. Continuing further along Shattuck 
through the Solano Tunnel to Solano Avenue, there's an 
Andronico's-turned-Safeway about one mile away (north, roughly) from the 
original Shattuck Safeway. Then, continuing west along Solano into 
neighboring Albany, there's a Safeway that was always a Safeway one mile 
west of the Upper Solano ex-Andronico's Safeway.

I find the logic of this multiplicity confusing. And to top it off, one 
mile north of the Lower Solano Safeway is El Cerrito Plaza, which contains 
a Lucky's Supermarket - a chain which, like Safeway, is owned by the 
Albertson's Group. The former Andronico'ses in Berkeley have been rebranded 
as "Andronico's Community Markets", but the merch is much the same as the 
alternating Safeways, and the same newspaper sales prices apply.

If Kroger and Albertson's merge, then it'll be Buy n Large from coast to 
coast outside the southeast.

*originally based in SF's Inner Sunset district; they'd bought up a few 
other local chains, including the two stores that the Berkeley Co-op owned 
outright when they shut down in 1988 - the original store on University 
Avenue (my home store, where my dad was a board member and the newspaper 
publisher in the 60s) and the fancy store on Shattuck in the Gourmet 
Ghetto. The land was worth more than the organization; the 99-year lease 
for the Telegraph/Ashby store was sold to Whole Foods

Peter "the old story was that the frontier was the Tehachapi" Adler
*plus ça change, plus c'est la même supermarché *en
Berkeley, CA/USA

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 4:06:52 PM UTC-8 Jimmy Warren wrote:

> When a Mason-Dixon line needs to be established in CA, it'll be called the 
> Safeway-Vons line.
>
> Quiz: for any major north-south freeway or highway, what are the two 
> cities that straddle the Safeway-Vons line?
>
> Related question: King City: which store do they have?
>
> Related Cliff Claven Trivia: when I was a kid growing up in Los Angeles 
> and San Diego suburbs, Vons and Safeway were two different stores. In 1989 
> they merged, and all of our Southern California Safeways got renamed Vons. 
> So many of our suburban shopping centers ended up with two Vons's as 
> anchors on either end when it used to be Safeway at one end and Vons at the 
> other.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0e068dcf-8856-4594-bf64-9b6b7ecafef0n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[James Warren]

When a Mason-Dixon line needs to be established in CA, it'll be called the
Safeway-Vons line.

Quiz: for any major north-south freeway or highway, what are the two cities
that straddle the Safeway-Vons line?

Related question: King City: which store do they have?

Related Cliff Claven Trivia: when I was a kid growing up in Los Angeles and
San Diego suburbs, Vons and Safeway were two different stores. In 1989 they
merged, and all of our Southern California Safeways got renamed Vons. So
many of our suburban shopping centers ended up with two Vons's as anchors
on either end when it used to be Safeway at one end and Vons at the other.

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 3:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> On an entirely unrelated note, I mentioned on Twitter last week that I
> finally noticed the name, Safeway..why is it called that?? I'm informed
> that back in the olden times before FDA it was a promise of safe food. So
> there ya go.
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 3:03:35 PM UTC-8 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> The San Francisco Randonneurs are notorious for using Safeways as
>> controls on their brevets. If you know the layout for a typical Safeway,
>> you can save a lot of time hunting for your favorite rest stop snacks when
>> you’re riding with SFR.
>>
>> --Eric N
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2022, at 2:59 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> This is hilarious. I'll pile on with my brother's story. He got rejected
>> by UC Berkeley and accepted by UCLA. Not to be deterred, he wrote an appeal
>> letter that stated: "Don't let me go to UCLA. After 4 years there I won't
>> know what a tree looks like." UC Berkeley reversed its denial and enrolled
>> him.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:50 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Southern California: Distance expressed in time (Anaheim is 45 minutes
>>> from here)
>>>
>>> Northern California: Distance expressed in miles (Folsom is 12 miles
>>> away)
>>>
>>> And yes, up here the cities have actual edges, where you’re out in the
>>> country on the way to the next city.
>>>
>>> --Eric N, Who Moved From SoCal to NorCal 25 years Ago and Has Never
>>> Looked Back
>>>
>>> On Dec 20, 2022, at 2:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> The differentiation for me when I moved north in 1988 is there's spaces
>>> between towns in Northern California. If you grew up in LA/Orange Counties
>>> you understood towns as different signs on the same vast concrete
>>> landscape.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:13:42 PM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:
>>>
 I thought the way you knew Northern from Southern California was if
 people named freeways with “The”:

 “This is the 101” = you’re in Southern California

 “This is 101” = you’re in Northern California

 “That was Highway 101” = you’re listening to a classic rock station



 On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:01 PM Philip Williamson <
 philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you have a Safeway, you're in Northern California.
> If you've got a Vons, you're in SoCal.
>
> Philip
> Sonoma County, Calif (born in SF)
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-8 freefo...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt
>> County. We have way less traffic and better air. 
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson <
>> phendr...@paulpath.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick
>>> wrote:
>>>
 At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of
 cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of 
 the
 "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos 
 posted
 by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling 
 up
 and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and 
 roads
 equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we 
 have to
 wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not 
 really.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RBW 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Joe Bernard]

On an entirely unrelated note, I mentioned on Twitter last week that I 
finally noticed the name, Safeway..why is it called that?? I'm informed 
that back in the olden times before FDA it was a promise of safe food. So 
there ya go. 

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 3:03:35 PM UTC-8 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> The San Francisco Randonneurs are notorious for using Safeways as controls 
> on their brevets. If you know the layout for a typical Safeway, you can 
> save a lot of time hunting for your favorite rest stop snacks when you’re 
> riding with SFR.
>
> --Eric N
>
> On Dec 20, 2022, at 2:59 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>
> 
>
> This is hilarious. I'll pile on with my brother's story. He got rejected 
> by UC Berkeley and accepted by UCLA. Not to be deterred, he wrote an appeal 
> letter that stated: "Don't let me go to UCLA. After 4 years there I won't 
> know what a tree looks like." UC Berkeley reversed its denial and enrolled 
> him.
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:50 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Southern California: Distance expressed in time (Anaheim is 45 minutes 
>> from here)
>>
>> Northern California: Distance expressed in miles (Folsom is 12 miles away)
>>
>> And yes, up here the cities have actual edges, where you’re out in the 
>> country on the way to the next city.
>>
>> --Eric N, Who Moved From SoCal to NorCal 25 years Ago and Has Never 
>> Looked Back
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2022, at 2:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> The differentiation for me when I moved north in 1988 is there's spaces 
>> between towns in Northern California. If you grew up in LA/Orange Counties 
>> you understood towns as different signs on the same vast concrete 
>> landscape. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:13:42 PM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:
>>
>>> I thought the way you knew Northern from Southern California was if 
>>> people named freeways with “The”:
>>>
>>> “This is the 101” = you’re in Southern California
>>>  
>>> “This is 101” = you’re in Northern California
>>>  
>>> “That was Highway 101” = you’re listening to a classic rock station
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:01 PM Philip Williamson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 If you have a Safeway, you're in Northern California. 
 If you've got a Vons, you're in SoCal.

 Philip 
 Sonoma County, Calif (born in SF) 

 On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-8 freefo...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt 
> County. We have way less traffic and better air. 
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson  
> wrote:
>
>> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
>>> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of 
>>> the 
>>> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos 
>>> posted 
>>> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling 
>>> up 
>>> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and 
>>> roads 
>>> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have 
>>> to 
>>> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not 
>>> really.
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d63a806-d18b-4c80-a320-be317742a591n%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The San Francisco Randonneurs are notorious for using Safeways as controls on their brevets. If you know the layout for a typical Safeway, you can save a lot of time hunting for your favorite rest stop snacks when you’re riding with SFR.--Eric NOn Dec 20, 2022, at 2:59 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:This is hilarious. I'll pile on with my brother's story. He got rejected by UC Berkeley and accepted by UCLA. Not to be deterred, he wrote an appeal letter that stated: "Don't let me go to UCLA. After 4 years there I won't know what a tree looks like." UC Berkeley reversed its denial and enrolled him.On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:50 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:Southern California: Distance expressed in time (Anaheim is 45 minutes from here)Northern California: Distance expressed in miles (Folsom is 12 miles away)And yes, up here the cities have actual edges, where you’re out in the country on the way to the next city.--Eric N, Who Moved From SoCal to NorCal 25 years Ago and Has Never Looked BackOn Dec 20, 2022, at 2:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:The differentiation for me when I moved north in 1988 is there's spaces between towns in Northern California. If you grew up in LA/Orange Counties you understood towns as different signs on the same vast concrete landscape. On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:13:42 PM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:I thought the way you knew Northern from Southern California was if people named freeways with “The”:“This is the 101” = you’re in Southern California “This is 101” = you’re in Northern California “That was Highway 101” = you’re listening to a classic rock stationOn Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:01 PM Philip Williamson  wrote:If you have a Safeway, you're in Northern California. If you've got a Vons, you're in SoCal.Philip Sonoma County, Calif (born in SF) On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-8 freefo...@gmail.com wrote:The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt County. We have way less traffic and better air. On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson  wrote:Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com.





-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d63a806-d18b-4c80-a320-be317742a591n%40googlegroups.com.





-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3658522e-8cac-43ce-822a-80dd2d23d489n%40googlegroups.com.




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/T-wop9umlJs/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/F5D5F4EF-A171-4345-9092-323C32182B67%40me.com.




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAPh0EZ4fcdTLKZDrnpyVxHF0CnQw-JwiuWAvEER%3DJ5ciKr_xpA%40mail.gmail.com.




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[藍俊彪]

This is hilarious. I'll pile on with my brother's story. He got rejected by
UC Berkeley and accepted by UCLA. Not to be deterred, he wrote an appeal
letter that stated: "Don't let me go to UCLA. After 4 years there I won't
know what a tree looks like." UC Berkeley reversed its denial and enrolled
him.

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:50 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Southern California: Distance expressed in time (Anaheim is 45 minutes
> from here)
>
> Northern California: Distance expressed in miles (Folsom is 12 miles away)
>
> And yes, up here the cities have actual edges, where you’re out in the
> country on the way to the next city.
>
> --Eric N, Who Moved From SoCal to NorCal 25 years Ago and Has Never Looked
> Back
>
> On Dec 20, 2022, at 2:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> The differentiation for me when I moved north in 1988 is there's spaces
> between towns in Northern California. If you grew up in LA/Orange Counties
> you understood towns as different signs on the same vast concrete
> landscape.
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:13:42 PM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:
>
>> I thought the way you knew Northern from Southern California was if
>> people named freeways with “The”:
>>
>> “This is the 101” = you’re in Southern California
>>
>> “This is 101” = you’re in Northern California
>>
>> “That was Highway 101” = you’re listening to a classic rock station
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:01 PM Philip Williamson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If you have a Safeway, you're in Northern California.
>>> If you've got a Vons, you're in SoCal.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> Sonoma County, Calif (born in SF)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-8 freefo...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt
 County. We have way less traffic and better air. 

 On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson 
 wrote:

> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of
>> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the
>> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos 
>> posted
>> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up
>> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads
>> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have 
>> to
>> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not 
>> really.
>
> --
>
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
 To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
 --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d63a806-d18b-4c80-a320-be317742a591n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3658522e-8cac-43ce-822a-80dd2d23d489n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/T-wop9umlJs/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/F5D5F4EF-A171-4345-9092-323C32182B67%40me.com
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Curtis McKenzie]

Philip just may have something there.

https://local.safeway.com/safeway/ca.html

Curtis
"Who occasionally shops at Safeway"

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 2:01 PM Philip Williamson 
wrote:

> If you have a Safeway, you're in Northern California.
> If you've got a Vons, you're in SoCal.
>
> Philip
> Sonoma County, Calif (born in SF)
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-8 freefo...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt County.
>> We have way less traffic and better air. 
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>>
 At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of
 cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the
 "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted
 by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up
 and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads
 equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to
 wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d63a806-d18b-4c80-a320-be317742a591n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CABD4ymVfYyH%2B0YfYv%2BJEjLxOiMn9jZOv4L7qC_ftno8Npgnz9A%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Southern California: Distance expressed in time (Anaheim is 45 minutes from here)Northern California: Distance expressed in miles (Folsom is 12 miles away)And yes, up here the cities have actual edges, where you’re out in the country on the way to the next city.--Eric N, Who Moved From SoCal to NorCal 25 years Ago and Has Never Looked BackOn Dec 20, 2022, at 2:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:The differentiation for me when I moved north in 1988 is there's spaces between towns in Northern California. If you grew up in LA/Orange Counties you understood towns as different signs on the same vast concrete landscape. On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:13:42 PM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:I thought the way you knew Northern from Southern California was if people named freeways with “The”:“This is the 101” = you’re in Southern California “This is 101” = you’re in Northern California “That was Highway 101” = you’re listening to a classic rock stationOn Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:01 PM Philip Williamson  wrote:If you have a Safeway, you're in Northern California. If you've got a Vons, you're in SoCal.Philip Sonoma County, Calif (born in SF) On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-8 freefo...@gmail.com wrote:The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt County. We have way less traffic and better air. On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson  wrote:Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com.





-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d63a806-d18b-4c80-a320-be317742a591n%40googlegroups.com.





-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3658522e-8cac-43ce-822a-80dd2d23d489n%40googlegroups.com.




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/F5D5F4EF-A171-4345-9092-323C32182B67%40me.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Joe Bernard]

The differentiation for me when I moved north in 1988 is there's spaces 
between towns in Northern California. If you grew up in LA/Orange Counties 
you understood towns as different signs on the same vast concrete 
landscape. 

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:13:42 PM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:

> I thought the way you knew Northern from Southern California was if people 
> named freeways with “The”:
>
> “This is the 101” = you’re in Southern California
>  
> “This is 101” = you’re in Northern California
>  
> “That was Highway 101” = you’re listening to a classic rock station
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:01 PM Philip Williamson  
> wrote:
>
>> If you have a Safeway, you're in Northern California. 
>> If you've got a Vons, you're in SoCal.
>>
>> Philip 
>> Sonoma County, Calif (born in SF) 
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-8 freefo...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt 
>>> County. We have way less traffic and better air. 
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 

 On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:

> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the 
> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos 
> posted 
> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up 
> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads 
> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have 
> to 
> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.

 -- 

>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d63a806-d18b-4c80-a320-be317742a591n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3658522e-8cac-43ce-822a-80dd2d23d489n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Matthew Williams]

I thought the way you knew Northern from Southern California was if people
named freeways with “The”:

“This is the 101” = you’re in Southern California

“This is 101” = you’re in Northern California

“That was Highway 101” = you’re listening to a classic rock station



On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:01 PM Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you have a Safeway, you're in Northern California.
> If you've got a Vons, you're in SoCal.
>
> Philip
> Sonoma County, Calif (born in SF)
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-8 freefo...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt County.
>> We have way less traffic and better air. 
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>>
 At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of
 cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the
 "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted
 by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up
 and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads
 equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to
 wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d63a806-d18b-4c80-a320-be317742a591n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAPoOT60PZx0X%2B5t4O5r7wVnqBoCn89E%2B%3DPsM5715cDOkGJmiTw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Philip Williamson]

If you have a Safeway, you're in Northern California. 
If you've got a Vons, you're in SoCal.

Philip 
Sonoma County, Calif (born in SF) 

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-8 freefo...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt County. 
> We have way less traffic and better air. 
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson  
> wrote:
>
>> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
>>> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the 
>>> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted 
>>> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up 
>>> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads 
>>> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to 
>>> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d63a806-d18b-4c80-a320-be317742a591n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Patrick Moore]

Really wonderful photos. I'm very pleased that Athens is so rideable. I
haven't been there for almost 50 years since we visited an aunt on home
leave; we stayed mostly in Decatur which always struck me as a horrible
place to ride.

Curious: Is that your photography? It seems professional grade to me, tho'
my knowledge of photography is minimal and my skills even minimaler.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:17 AM John Dewey  wrote:

> Well, LONELY PLANET disagrees, with this to say:
>
> https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/best-places-for-a-cycling-holiday
>
> I've lived both places as cyclist, and confirm LP. Athens, with its
> year-round warm sunny days, an endless matrix of beautiful quiet country
> lanes (i.e. no traffic), delightful hills (mountains neaby), pine forests,
> no traffic is a cycling wonderland like no other. Not comparable. Add the
> music, UGA for culture, enviable culinary arts, ticks all the boxes.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/albums/72157709138882807
>
> Jock Dewey
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgu4MauoYPhSs72ioW-srzgh%3DaASiWE%2BzvwW05D-0OAm1g%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Michael Moore, Jr.]

The Bay Area isn't Northern California says the guy from Humboldt County.
We have way less traffic and better air. 

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:54 PM Luke Hendrickson 
wrote:

> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of
>> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the
>> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted
>> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up
>> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads
>> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to
>> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAK47Q%3DP47%2BUmzagDLb1k67%2BZrp%2BBxmm3FBmPN-3rQNib%3D6KKbQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Jay Lonner]

+1 on the joys of winter cycling. I lived in Madison for 4 years, and commuted by bike year-round. It helped a lot that the city was good about snow and ice removal, although all the salt pretty much trashed the components on my X0-1 after my first winter there. I ended up turning a Goodwill frame into a dedicated singlespeed commuter, and with Nokian studded tires never had any real issues. Compare that to the laissez faire attitude toward dealing with snow and ice back in the PNW – a few weeks ago I hit a patch of black ice and went right down. My first spill in many years — dinged up my handlebars a bit, but was lucky enough to avoid injury. I’ll confess that it’s made me a bit gunshy about riding here in freezing temperatures. Having said that, I still prefer cycling in the cold and wet to riding in hot and sticky weather (although Madison had a fair amount of that as well).Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Dec 16, 2022, at 11:38 AM, Wesley  wrote:Winter cycling in colder climates is a fresh and wonderful form of joy. We lived in Madison, Wisconsin for seven years and commuting by riding straight across Lake Mendota was incredibly fun. Plus, I often had the paths to myself and got a lot of entertainment from taking on big snow berms. Ice and slush were a lot less fun, though. To each their own - I'll certainly agree that NorCal can be a lovely place to ride. The things that surprised me, though, are how incredibly narrow the roads are, and how most trails prohibit cycling.-WOn Friday, December 16, 2022 at 9:21:01 AM UTC-8 Garth wrote:The best winter cycling for me is no winter at all. No compromises or adaptations.Summer, Summer, and Summer and Summer. I Love Summer HOT, HUMID Green and Balmy SUMMMER ! Where there are few to none "cyclists" around. In other words, where cycling isn't popular and there is no such thing as "popular culture" to be found. Where is such a place ?  Right where One could never lose or find The Heart. Home, Heaven, is The Heart. and where's isn't The Heart  but nowhere ?  



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/492402f8-d3d9-4f8a-9f14-9700627cf8ffn%40googlegroups.com.




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/58499593-BC14-4FF1-AE73-34A4C44D7A18%40gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[藍俊彪]

The Loma Prieta branch of the Sierra Club actively fought trail access for
mountain bikers in the area. It's something many of us here will never
forgive them for. Nevertheless, there are a lot of good trails that are
worth riding available, many of which see no more than 2 cyclists an hour.
Pre-pandemic they were even less used but with the rise of gravel bikes I'm
starting to see more traffic.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:38 AM Wesley  wrote:

> Winter cycling in colder climates is a fresh and wonderful form of joy. We
> lived in Madison, Wisconsin for seven years and commuting by riding
> straight across Lake Mendota was incredibly fun. Plus, I often had the
> paths to myself and got a lot of entertainment from taking on big snow
> berms. Ice and slush were a lot less fun, though. To each their own - I'll
> certainly agree that NorCal can be a lovely place to ride. The things that
> surprised me, though, are how incredibly narrow the roads are, and how most
> trails prohibit cycling.
> -W
>
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 9:21:01 AM UTC-8 Garth wrote:
>
>> The best winter cycling for me is no winter at all. No compromises or
>> adaptations.
>>
>> Summer, Summer, and Summer and Summer. I Love Summer HOT, HUMID Green
>> and Balmy SUMMMER !
>>
>> Where there are few to none "cyclists" around. In other words, where
>> cycling isn't popular and there is no such thing as "popular culture" to be
>> found.
>>
>> Where is such a place ?
>>
>> Right where One could never lose or find The Heart. Home, Heaven, is
>> The Heart. and where's isn't The Heart  but nowhere ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/T-wop9umlJs/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/492402f8-d3d9-4f8a-9f14-9700627cf8ffn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAPh0EZ7kezhC1TCX0QPs9mhhTF6cSyehdFqs%3DacZ8DCea3KXeg%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Wesley]

Winter cycling in colder climates is a fresh and wonderful form of joy. We 
lived in Madison, Wisconsin for seven years and commuting by riding 
straight across Lake Mendota was incredibly fun. Plus, I often had the 
paths to myself and got a lot of entertainment from taking on big snow 
berms. Ice and slush were a lot less fun, though. To each their own - I'll 
certainly agree that NorCal can be a lovely place to ride. The things that 
surprised me, though, are how incredibly narrow the roads are, and how most 
trails prohibit cycling.
-W

On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 9:21:01 AM UTC-8 Garth wrote:

> The best winter cycling for me is no winter at all. No compromises or 
> adaptations.
>
> Summer, Summer, and Summer and Summer. I Love Summer HOT, HUMID Green 
> and Balmy SUMMMER ! 
>
> Where there are few to none "cyclists" around. In other words, where 
> cycling isn't popular and there is no such thing as "popular culture" to be 
> found. 
>
> Where is such a place ?  
>
> Right where One could never lose or find The Heart. Home, Heaven, is 
> The Heart. and where's isn't The Heart  but nowhere ? 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/492402f8-d3d9-4f8a-9f14-9700627cf8ffn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Garth]

The best winter cycling for me is no winter at all. No compromises or 
adaptations.

Summer, Summer, and Summer and Summer. I Love Summer HOT, HUMID Green 
and Balmy SUMMMER ! 

Where there are few to none "cyclists" around. In other words, where 
cycling isn't popular and there is no such thing as "popular culture" to be 
found. 

Where is such a place ?  

Right where One could never lose or find The Heart. Home, Heaven, is 
The Heart. and where's isn't The Heart  but nowhere ? 





 


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d83b9e4c-729f-4cae-8d08-b5b5980e5b59n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Piaw Na]

Athens Georgia ranks even below Girona on that lonely planet list, and I 
would still consider that a step down (though at least not an entire 
staircase down). I would take lonely planet with a grain of salt, since the 
thread started with winter cycling, and SF Bay Area is about 5 degrees 
warmer than Athens, GA with less rain (which is not a feature if you're 
living here --- we're in the midst of a multi-year drought!).

On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:46:35 AM UTC-8 Wesley wrote:

> I think John was talking about Athens, Georgia. I've visited but never 
> cycled there, and can confirm that there is food every bit as excellent as 
> you'll find anywhere. Especially if you're into soul food or barbecue.
> -W
>
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:39:11 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I've been to Athens. It definitely doesn't have mountains comparable to 
>> what you can find in the Santa Cruz mountains. The sheer variety of terrain 
>> from desert to open fields to redwood forests in the Bay Area beats Athens. 
>> For food, try getting great Asian food (Chinese, Japanese and Indian) in 
>> Athens. It's not even close. I will say that the archaeological/ancient 
>> monuments in Athens beats the heck out of anything in the Bay Area. I'd say 
>> that music in the Bay Area can be pretty good, but not being big on 
>> nightlife I can't say that I'd be authoritative on it.
>>
>> For cycling, the only places I think are comparable (still a step down) 
>> are Mallorca and Girona in Spain. I did a superlative trip to those places 
>> before the pandemic (
>> https://blog.piaw.net/2019/05/index-2019-mallorca-and-girona-fixed.html), 
>> and they are outstanding because the number of cyclists in Mallorca feels 
>> like you're in a century ride every day (cyclists outnumber car drivers on 
>> most of the mountain roads!), and the large number of hotels/apartments in 
>> the area means you get very good prices for lodging. But I'd still say that 
>> the food in the Bay Area for sheer diversity beats what you can find in 
>> either Mallorca and Girona. Even then their hills aren't comparable to what 
>> I'd find in the Bay Area. Bay Area mountains are suitable preparation for 
>> the alps or the Sierras. Everything in Mallorca and Girona is gentle by 
>> comparison. But of course, that means that Bay Area cyclists regularly need 
>> low gears (24x36 back in the pre-1x drivetrain days, 40x51 or 38x51 
>> nowadays) that other locations do not require. Some people find that to be 
>> a bug and not a feature.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:17 AM John Dewey  wrote:
>>
>>> Well, LONELY PLANET disagrees, with this to say: 
>>>
>>> https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/best-places-for-a-cycling-holiday
>>>
>>> I've lived both places as cyclist, and confirm LP. Athens, with its 
>>> year-round warm sunny days, an endless matrix of beautiful quiet country 
>>> lanes (i.e. no traffic), delightful hills (mountains neaby), pine forests, 
>>> no traffic is a cycling wonderland like no other. Not comparable. Add the 
>>> music, UGA for culture, enviable culinary arts, ticks all the boxes. 
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/albums/72157709138882807
>>>
>>> Jock Dewey
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:21:17 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 It's not hype. The Bay Area has the best winter cycling in the world. 
 But you don't have to live here to enjoy it --- come visit for a few days 
 in winter with your bike. It's not a coincidence that the spate of outdoor 
 companies in the 1980s (Patagonia, Power Bar, Clif Bar, Specialized, 
 Ritchey, North Face, in addition to Rivendell) all started here.

 On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 6:44:30 AM UTC-8 fra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I enjoy watching those videos as well! I could never keep up with he 
> or Ms Cools but those rides look beautiful! 
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 9:54:47 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson 
> wrote:
>
>> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
>>> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of 
>>> the 
>>> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos 
>>> posted 
>>> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling 
>>> up 
>>> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and 
>>> roads 
>>> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have 
>>> to 
>>> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not 
>>> really.
>>
>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Wesley]

I think John was talking about Athens, Georgia. I've visited but never 
cycled there, and can confirm that there is food every bit as excellent as 
you'll find anywhere. Especially if you're into soul food or barbecue.
-W

On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:39:11 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've been to Athens. It definitely doesn't have mountains comparable to 
> what you can find in the Santa Cruz mountains. The sheer variety of terrain 
> from desert to open fields to redwood forests in the Bay Area beats Athens. 
> For food, try getting great Asian food (Chinese, Japanese and Indian) in 
> Athens. It's not even close. I will say that the archaeological/ancient 
> monuments in Athens beats the heck out of anything in the Bay Area. I'd say 
> that music in the Bay Area can be pretty good, but not being big on 
> nightlife I can't say that I'd be authoritative on it.
>
> For cycling, the only places I think are comparable (still a step down) 
> are Mallorca and Girona in Spain. I did a superlative trip to those places 
> before the pandemic (
> https://blog.piaw.net/2019/05/index-2019-mallorca-and-girona-fixed.html), 
> and they are outstanding because the number of cyclists in Mallorca feels 
> like you're in a century ride every day (cyclists outnumber car drivers on 
> most of the mountain roads!), and the large number of hotels/apartments in 
> the area means you get very good prices for lodging. But I'd still say that 
> the food in the Bay Area for sheer diversity beats what you can find in 
> either Mallorca and Girona. Even then their hills aren't comparable to what 
> I'd find in the Bay Area. Bay Area mountains are suitable preparation for 
> the alps or the Sierras. Everything in Mallorca and Girona is gentle by 
> comparison. But of course, that means that Bay Area cyclists regularly need 
> low gears (24x36 back in the pre-1x drivetrain days, 40x51 or 38x51 
> nowadays) that other locations do not require. Some people find that to be 
> a bug and not a feature.
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:17 AM John Dewey  wrote:
>
>> Well, LONELY PLANET disagrees, with this to say: 
>>
>> https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/best-places-for-a-cycling-holiday
>>
>> I've lived both places as cyclist, and confirm LP. Athens, with its 
>> year-round warm sunny days, an endless matrix of beautiful quiet country 
>> lanes (i.e. no traffic), delightful hills (mountains neaby), pine forests, 
>> no traffic is a cycling wonderland like no other. Not comparable. Add the 
>> music, UGA for culture, enviable culinary arts, ticks all the boxes. 
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/albums/72157709138882807
>>
>> Jock Dewey
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:21:17 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> It's not hype. The Bay Area has the best winter cycling in the world. 
>>> But you don't have to live here to enjoy it --- come visit for a few days 
>>> in winter with your bike. It's not a coincidence that the spate of outdoor 
>>> companies in the 1980s (Patagonia, Power Bar, Clif Bar, Specialized, 
>>> Ritchey, North Face, in addition to Rivendell) all started here.
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 6:44:30 AM UTC-8 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I enjoy watching those videos as well! I could never keep up with he or 
 Ms Cools but those rides look beautiful! 

 On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 9:54:47 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson 
 wrote:

> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
>> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the 
>> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos 
>> posted 
>> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up 
>> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads 
>> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have 
>> to 
>> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not 
>> really.
>
> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/T-wop9umlJs/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/444ce594-9cbd-4413-b8c8-4b95ecdc58can%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from 

Re: [RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[藍俊彪]

I've been to Athens. It definitely doesn't have mountains comparable to
what you can find in the Santa Cruz mountains. The sheer variety of terrain
from desert to open fields to redwood forests in the Bay Area beats Athens.
For food, try getting great Asian food (Chinese, Japanese and Indian) in
Athens. It's not even close. I will say that the archaeological/ancient
monuments in Athens beats the heck out of anything in the Bay Area. I'd say
that music in the Bay Area can be pretty good, but not being big on
nightlife I can't say that I'd be authoritative on it.

For cycling, the only places I think are comparable (still a step down) are
Mallorca and Girona in Spain. I did a superlative trip to those places
before the pandemic (
https://blog.piaw.net/2019/05/index-2019-mallorca-and-girona-fixed.html),
and they are outstanding because the number of cyclists in Mallorca feels
like you're in a century ride every day (cyclists outnumber car drivers on
most of the mountain roads!), and the large number of hotels/apartments in
the area means you get very good prices for lodging. But I'd still say that
the food in the Bay Area for sheer diversity beats what you can find in
either Mallorca and Girona. Even then their hills aren't comparable to what
I'd find in the Bay Area. Bay Area mountains are suitable preparation for
the alps or the Sierras. Everything in Mallorca and Girona is gentle by
comparison. But of course, that means that Bay Area cyclists regularly need
low gears (24x36 back in the pre-1x drivetrain days, 40x51 or 38x51
nowadays) that other locations do not require. Some people find that to be
a bug and not a feature.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:17 AM John Dewey  wrote:

> Well, LONELY PLANET disagrees, with this to say:
>
> https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/best-places-for-a-cycling-holiday
>
> I've lived both places as cyclist, and confirm LP. Athens, with its
> year-round warm sunny days, an endless matrix of beautiful quiet country
> lanes (i.e. no traffic), delightful hills (mountains neaby), pine forests,
> no traffic is a cycling wonderland like no other. Not comparable. Add the
> music, UGA for culture, enviable culinary arts, ticks all the boxes.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/albums/72157709138882807
>
> Jock Dewey
>
>
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:21:17 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It's not hype. The Bay Area has the best winter cycling in the world. But
>> you don't have to live here to enjoy it --- come visit for a few days in
>> winter with your bike. It's not a coincidence that the spate of outdoor
>> companies in the 1980s (Patagonia, Power Bar, Clif Bar, Specialized,
>> Ritchey, North Face, in addition to Rivendell) all started here.
>>
>> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 6:44:30 AM UTC-8 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I enjoy watching those videos as well! I could never keep up with he or
>>> Ms Cools but those rides look beautiful!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 9:54:47 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 

 On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:

> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of
> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the
> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted
> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up
> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads
> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to
> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.

 --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/T-wop9umlJs/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/444ce594-9cbd-4413-b8c8-4b95ecdc58can%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAPh0EZ5V%3DDcgRCzpVaeCoZ61FLwq2o3_Ko10-ycoDifaDd4jjw%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[John Dewey]

Well, LONELY PLANET disagrees, with this to say: 

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/best-places-for-a-cycling-holiday

I've lived both places as cyclist, and confirm LP. Athens, with its 
year-round warm sunny days, an endless matrix of beautiful quiet country 
lanes (i.e. no traffic), delightful hills (mountains neaby), pine forests, 
no traffic is a cycling wonderland like no other. Not comparable. Add the 
music, UGA for culture, enviable culinary arts, ticks all the boxes. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/albums/72157709138882807

Jock Dewey


On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:21:17 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> It's not hype. The Bay Area has the best winter cycling in the world. But 
> you don't have to live here to enjoy it --- come visit for a few days in 
> winter with your bike. It's not a coincidence that the spate of outdoor 
> companies in the 1980s (Patagonia, Power Bar, Clif Bar, Specialized, 
> Ritchey, North Face, in addition to Rivendell) all started here.
>
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 6:44:30 AM UTC-8 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I enjoy watching those videos as well! I could never keep up with he or 
>> Ms Cools but those rides look beautiful! 
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 9:54:47 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>
>>> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>>
 At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
 cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the 
 "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted 
 by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up 
 and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads 
 equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to 
 wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/444ce594-9cbd-4413-b8c8-4b95ecdc58can%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Mike Godwin]

Or make your winter riding destination the Central Coast of California, San 
Luis Obispo for winter riding. Less traffic, same great riding weather!

Mike SLO CA 
On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:21:17 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> It's not hype. The Bay Area has the best winter cycling in the world. But 
> you don't have to live here to enjoy it --- come visit for a few days in 
> winter with your bike. It's not a coincidence that the spate of outdoor 
> companies in the 1980s (Patagonia, Power Bar, Clif Bar, Specialized, 
> Ritchey, North Face, in addition to Rivendell) all started here.
>
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 6:44:30 AM UTC-8 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I enjoy watching those videos as well! I could never keep up with he or 
>> Ms Cools but those rides look beautiful! 
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 9:54:47 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>
>>> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>>
 At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
 cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the 
 "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted 
 by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up 
 and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads 
 equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to 
 wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1a5ff270-47f2-4e95-a575-9e06e70c70e3n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Piaw Na]

It's not hype. The Bay Area has the best winter cycling in the world. But 
you don't have to live here to enjoy it --- come visit for a few days in 
winter with your bike. It's not a coincidence that the spate of outdoor 
companies in the 1980s (Patagonia, Power Bar, Clif Bar, Specialized, 
Ritchey, North Face, in addition to Rivendell) all started here.

On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 6:44:30 AM UTC-8 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> I enjoy watching those videos as well! I could never keep up with he or Ms 
> Cools but those rides look beautiful! 
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 9:54:47 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>
>> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
>>> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the 
>>> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted 
>>> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up 
>>> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads 
>>> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to 
>>> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/cf1baa6d-4d88-4b82-a225-28a701a50ed1n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Ryan Frahm]

I enjoy watching those videos as well! I could never keep up with he or Ms 
Cools but those rides look beautiful! 

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 9:54:47 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
>> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the 
>> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted 
>> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up 
>> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads 
>> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to 
>> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c41a9782-9a50-42cd-ba37-e7ce2fc3f37fn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Luke Hendrickson]

Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:

> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the 
> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted 
> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up 
> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads 
> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to 
> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81df271f-fedb-40d4-8b20-3a9261a23848n%40googlegroups.com.