Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Collin A]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and ideas. I think I will terminate the 
project, just trying to make too many things happen at once. I did have 
this bike built up before and it rode nicely, so there isn't too much of a 
need to do a "good enough" build for the time being.

Luckily most of the components I still have serve as great spares for bike 
in the current fleet, or at least the nice parts (XTR hubs, etc.), but I 
will be posting some of the other stuff for sale (nitto bars, BB, cranks, 
etc) after the holidays as well.

Now to just prevent myself from picking up another project bike here in the 
next few months...

Cheers and happy holidays,
Collin

On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 10:15:57 AM UTC-8 Mark Roland wrote:

> Having successfully done it at no cost (friend with a tig welder and 
> experience welding prototype medical equipment, rattlecan touch up) to a 
> bike that became a favorite (and I imagine sorta close to an original 26" 
> Atlantis) I have to disagree. Even has a 700C to 26" Rivendell fork.
>
> [image: IMG_0005.JPG][image: IMG_9916(1).JPG]
>
>
>
> On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 9:32:33 AM UTC-5 ryan.merri...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> IMHO, when you start talking about adding canti posts, it's time for a 
>> different frame. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 12:43:43 PM UTC-6 Collin A wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, so short story long:
>>>
>>> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as 
>>> part of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the 
>>> ground. This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the 
>>> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single 
>>> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach 
>>> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out 
>>> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied, 
>>> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>>>
>>>- (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts 
>>>(cause why not?) and canti posts
>>>- (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>>>- (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the 
>>>rear for even more clearance
>>>- (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original 
>>>wheels are now sold
>>>- (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos 
>>>which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the 
>>> Appaloosa
>>>- (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers 
>>>(see above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>>>- (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but 
>>>no freewheel yet.
>>>
>>> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I 
>>> am more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket 
>>> combo and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when 
>>> it comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a 
>>> more expensive bike than I'd like.
>>>
>>> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that 
>>> unique of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, 
>>> etc.) and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that 
>>> aspect. The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a 
>>> unique feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this 
>>> effort on it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Collin in Sactown
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in 
 understanding how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally 
 pretty impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are 
 still new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - 
 there is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's 
 an exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once 
 complete, I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, 
 supply, 
 and bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - 
 and that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid 
 cash, then maybe different story.  
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Ryan M.]

IMHO, when you start talking about adding canti posts, it's time for a 
different frame. 

On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 12:43:43 PM UTC-6 Collin A wrote:

> Ok, so short story long:
>
> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as part 
> of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the ground. 
> This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the 
> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single 
> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach 
> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out 
> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied, 
> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>
>- (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts 
>(cause why not?) and canti posts
>- (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>- (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the 
>rear for even more clearance
>- (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original wheels 
>are now sold
>- (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos 
>which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the Appaloosa
>- (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers 
>(see above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>- (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but no 
>freewheel yet.
>
> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I 
> am more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket 
> combo and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when 
> it comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a 
> more expensive bike than I'd like.
>
> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that unique 
> of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, etc.) 
> and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that aspect. 
> The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a unique 
> feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this effort on 
> it.
>
> Cheers,
> Collin in Sactown
>
> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding 
>> how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty 
>> impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still 
>> new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there 
>> is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an 
>> exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once complete, 
>> I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply, and 
>> bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - and 
>> that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid cash, 
>> then maybe different story.  
>
>

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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Philip Williamson]

This is my thinking as well. Build up a rideable bike, and don’t worry 
about the “perfect.” When I saw you’d traded away a Minimoto, I thought, 
“Well there’s your problem right there.” If you went fixed, that’s all 
you’d even need. Cantis or Vs would be fine, brake levers and fixie wheels 
are dead cheap on Craigslist if your bike is 120 spaced, and 130 spaced 
road wheels are also pretty cheap and available. 

Ride the bike a bit, and then strip it and sell the pieces.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 5:30:41 PM UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:

> It doesn't seem like you're that far off, just a few hours of wrenching 
> and you would have a rideable bike. Canti front, R559 rear, as a trial, and 
> use an existing rear wheel (if you have it) with spacer for the single 
> speed. Sometimes "good enough" is better than "just right."
>
> Eric
>
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 1:43 PM Collin A  wrote:
>
>> Ok, so short story long:
>>
>> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as 
>> part of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the 
>> ground. This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the 
>> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single 
>> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach 
>> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out 
>> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied, 
>> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>>
>>- (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts 
>>(cause why not?) and canti posts
>>- (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>>- (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the 
>>rear for even more clearance
>>- (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original 
>>wheels are now sold
>>- (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos 
>>which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the Appaloosa
>>- (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers 
>>(see above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>>- (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but 
>>no freewheel yet.
>>
>> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I 
>> am more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket 
>> combo and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when 
>> it comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a 
>> more expensive bike than I'd like.
>>
>> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that unique 
>> of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, etc.) 
>> and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that aspect. 
>> The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a unique 
>> feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this effort on 
>> it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Collin in Sactown
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding 
>>> how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty 
>>> impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still 
>>> new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there 
>>> is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an 
>>> exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once complete, 
>>> I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply, and 
>>> bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - and 
>>> that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid cash, 
>>> then maybe different story.  
>>
>> -- 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Eric Daume]

It doesn't seem like you're that far off, just a few hours of wrenching and
you would have a rideable bike. Canti front, R559 rear, as a trial, and use
an existing rear wheel (if you have it) with spacer for the single speed.
Sometimes "good enough" is better than "just right."

Eric

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 1:43 PM Collin A  wrote:

> Ok, so short story long:
>
> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as part
> of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the ground.
> This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the
> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single
> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach
> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out
> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied,
> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>
>- (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts
>(cause why not?) and canti posts
>- (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>- (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the
>rear for even more clearance
>- (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original wheels
>are now sold
>- (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos
>which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the Appaloosa
>- (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers
>(see above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>- (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but no
>freewheel yet.
>
> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I
> am more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket
> combo and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when
> it comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a
> more expensive bike than I'd like.
>
> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that unique
> of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, etc.)
> and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that aspect.
> The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a unique
> feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this effort on
> it.
>
> Cheers,
> Collin in Sactown
>
> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding
>> how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty
>> impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still
>> new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there
>> is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an
>> exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once complete,
>> I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply, and
>> bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - and
>> that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid cash,
>> then maybe different story.
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Brian Witt]

Wow! timely question!  i am abandoning a project that stalled for a couple 
years.  I collected parts and then sourced a used frame that just wont 
accommodate the running gear properly.  and changes in my needs/ wants /  
physical abilities  have now  made the bike (even if finished)  not very 
enjoyable... all of which begs the question: do I sell off the stuff or 
stack it all up for some other day... i have a horrible time selling off 
bike parts!!!

On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 2:31:07 PM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> +1 on not trying to turn a sports car into a pickup truck.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy  
>
> On Dec 23, 2020, at 11:26 AM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>
> Sounds to me like you’re trying to transform the bike into something it 
> isn’t, and I doubt that a new fork, adding canti posts, crimping the stays, 
> etc. will alter that fundamental fact. I’d ditch it and start over with 
> something that meets your needs without requiring such extensive 
> modification. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Dec 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Collin A  wrote:
>
> Scott, that's exactly why I am thinking about abandonment now...I've 
> already spent so much time and effort and normally i'd think "what's a bit 
> more" but I've been screwed by that approach in the past (which eventually 
> prompted an involuntary career switch).
>
> Patrick/Jason, I agree that taking a break would be beneficial. But like a 
> FULL break for a couple months (no looking for parts, no brainstorming, 
> nothing). This thing has been bouncing around in my head for the past 5 
> months now, so I think a mental break would help clear the decision making 
> process as it relates to this bike.
>
> Still no decision though,
> Collin
>
> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 11:03:38 AM UTC-8 greenteadrinkers 
> wrote:
>
>> Might be worth reading up on Sunk Cost Fallacy:
>>
>> https://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 1:43:43 PM UTC-5 Collin A wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, so short story long:
>>>
>>> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as 
>>> part of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the 
>>> ground. This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the 
>>> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single 
>>> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach 
>>> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out 
>>> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied, 
>>> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>>>
>>>- (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts 
>>>(cause why not?) and canti posts
>>>- (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>>>- (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the 
>>>rear for even more clearance
>>>- (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original 
>>>wheels are now sold
>>>- (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos 
>>>which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the 
>>> Appaloosa
>>>- (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers 
>>>(see above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>>>- (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but 
>>>no freewheel yet.
>>>
>>> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I 
>>> am more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket 
>>> combo and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when 
>>> it comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a 
>>> more expensive bike than I'd like.
>>>
>>> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that 
>>> unique of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, 
>>> etc.) and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that 
>>> aspect. The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a 
>>> unique feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this 
>>> effort on it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Collin in Sactown
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in 
 understanding how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally 
 pretty impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are 
 still new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - 
 there is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's 
 an exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once 
 complete, I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, 

Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Jason Fuller]

Thanks for the background; now it does sound like a square peg, round hole
situation in terms of fitting your needs - and since you can find just
about any combination of features you want these days in a steel frame, it
does seem a bit like you're taking the scenic route.

Still, could be cool to have a fully unique bike, but only if you're really
attached to that frame IMO, otherwise I'd sell it to someone whose needs it
already fits


On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 11:15 AM Collin A  wrote:

> Scott, that's exactly why I am thinking about abandonment now...I've
> already spent so much time and effort and normally i'd think "what's a bit
> more" but I've been screwed by that approach in the past (which eventually
> prompted an involuntary career switch).
>
> Patrick/Jason, I agree that taking a break would be beneficial. But like a
> FULL break for a couple months (no looking for parts, no brainstorming,
> nothing). This thing has been bouncing around in my head for the past 5
> months now, so I think a mental break would help clear the decision making
> process as it relates to this bike.
>
> Still no decision though,
> Collin
>
> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 11:03:38 AM UTC-8 greenteadrinkers
> wrote:
>
>> Might be worth reading up on Sunk Cost Fallacy:
>>
>> https://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 1:43:43 PM UTC-5 Collin A wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, so short story long:
>>>
>>> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as
>>> part of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the
>>> ground. This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the
>>> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single
>>> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach
>>> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out
>>> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied,
>>> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>>>
>>>- (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts
>>>(cause why not?) and canti posts
>>>- (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>>>- (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the
>>>rear for even more clearance
>>>- (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original
>>>wheels are now sold
>>>- (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos
>>>which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the 
>>> Appaloosa
>>>- (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers
>>>(see above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>>>- (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but
>>>no freewheel yet.
>>>
>>> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I
>>> am more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket
>>> combo and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when
>>> it comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a
>>> more expensive bike than I'd like.
>>>
>>> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that
>>> unique of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance,
>>> etc.) and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that
>>> aspect. The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a
>>> unique feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this
>>> effort on it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Collin in Sactown
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in
 understanding how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally
 pretty impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are
 still new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again -
 there is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's
 an exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once
 complete, I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply,
 and bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years -
 and that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid
 cash, then maybe different story.
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Garth]

Well you know Collin that'd be like Me saying I'm quitting bike riding 
because it's winter and I don't feel like bike riding today. 

On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 11:57:18 AM UTC-5 Lucky wrote:

> Well, you’ll have to tell us more about the project.
> Also, thanks for the Cycle Cats rec!
>
> On Dec 23, 2020, at 08:50, Collin A  wrote:
>
> Short story, I have a frame and fork I want to build up, but with the 
> COVID supply issues, and the rising costs of the project to reach 
> completion, I am starting to consider ending the project and selling the 
> parts I have been saving it for to try and recoup some of the costs.
>
>
> For those that have also thrown in the towel and moved on (to, most 
> likely, another bike project), what was the final straw? Any words of 
> wisdom to keep chugging along?
>
> Happy Festivus,
> Collin, airing his grievances, in Sacramento
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

+1 on not trying to turn a sports car into a pickup truck.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On Dec 23, 2020, at 11:26 AM, Jay Lonner  wrote:
> 
> Sounds to me like you’re trying to transform the bike into something it 
> isn’t, and I doubt that a new fork, adding canti posts, crimping the stays, 
> etc. will alter that fundamental fact. I’d ditch it and start over with 
> something that meets your needs without requiring such extensive 
> modification. 
> 
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
> 
> Sent from my Atari 400
> 
>> On Dec 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Collin A  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott, that's exactly why I am thinking about abandonment now...I've 
>> already spent so much time and effort and normally i'd think "what's a bit 
>> more" but I've been screwed by that approach in the past (which eventually 
>> prompted an involuntary career switch).
>> 
>> Patrick/Jason, I agree that taking a break would be beneficial. But like a 
>> FULL break for a couple months (no looking for parts, no brainstorming, 
>> nothing). This thing has been bouncing around in my head for the past 5 
>> months now, so I think a mental break would help clear the decision making 
>> process as it relates to this bike.
>> 
>> Still no decision though,
>> Collin
>> 
>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 11:03:38 AM UTC-8 greenteadrinkers wrote:
>> Might be worth reading up on Sunk Cost Fallacy:
>> 
>> https://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/ 
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost 
>> 
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 1:43:43 PM UTC-5 Collin A wrote:
>> Ok, so short story long:
>> 
>> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as part 
>> of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the ground. 
>> This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the 
>> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single 
>> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach 
>> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out here 
>> vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied, I 
>> began the modifications planned, which included:
>> (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts (cause why 
>> not?) and canti posts
>> (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>> (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the rear for 
>> even more clearance
>> (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original wheels are now 
>> sold
>> (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos which I 
>> have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the Appaloosa
>> (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers (see above, 
>> currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>> (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but no 
>> freewheel yet.
>> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I am 
>> more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket combo 
>> and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when it 
>> comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a more 
>> expensive bike than I'd like.
>> 
>> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that unique of 
>> a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, etc.) and 
>> I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that aspect. The 
>> visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a unique feature 
>> bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this effort on it.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Collin in Sactown
>> 
>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>> Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding how 
>> good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty impatient 
>> when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still new-in-box 
>> Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there is no 
>> deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an exciting 
>> build or something that would be very useful to you once complete, I'd just 
>> hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply, and bandwidth to 
>> finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - and that's OK.  If 
>> you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid cash, then maybe 
>> different story.  
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To view this 

Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Jay Lonner]

Sounds to me like you’re trying to transform the bike into something it isn’t, 
and I doubt that a new fork, adding canti posts, crimping the stays, etc. will 
alter that fundamental fact. I’d ditch it and start over with something that 
meets your needs without requiring such extensive modification. 

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

> On Dec 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Collin A  wrote:
> 
> Scott, that's exactly why I am thinking about abandonment now...I've already 
> spent so much time and effort and normally i'd think "what's a bit more" but 
> I've been screwed by that approach in the past (which eventually prompted an 
> involuntary career switch).
> 
> Patrick/Jason, I agree that taking a break would be beneficial. But like a 
> FULL break for a couple months (no looking for parts, no brainstorming, 
> nothing). This thing has been bouncing around in my head for the past 5 
> months now, so I think a mental break would help clear the decision making 
> process as it relates to this bike.
> 
> Still no decision though,
> Collin
> 
>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 11:03:38 AM UTC-8 greenteadrinkers wrote:
>> Might be worth reading up on Sunk Cost Fallacy:
>> 
>> https://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 1:43:43 PM UTC-5 Collin A wrote:
>>> Ok, so short story long:
>>> 
>>> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as part 
>>> of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the ground. 
>>> This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the 
>>> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single 
>>> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach 
>>> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out 
>>> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied, 
>>> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>>> (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts (cause why 
>>> not?) and canti posts
>>> (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>>> (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the rear for 
>>> even more clearance
>>> (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original wheels are 
>>> now sold
>>> (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos which I 
>>> have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the Appaloosa
>>> (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers (see 
>>> above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>>> (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but no 
>>> freewheel yet.
>>> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I am 
>>> more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket combo 
>>> and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when it 
>>> comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a more 
>>> expensive bike than I'd like.
>>> 
>>> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that unique 
>>> of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, etc.) 
>>> and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that aspect. 
>>> The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a unique 
>>> feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this effort on 
>>> it.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Collin in Sactown
>>> 
 On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
 Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding 
 how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty 
 impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still 
 new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there 
 is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an 
 exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once 
 complete, I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, 
 supply, and bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three 
 years - and that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the 
 liquid cash, then maybe different story.  
> 
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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Collin A]

Scott, that's exactly why I am thinking about abandonment now...I've 
already spent so much time and effort and normally i'd think "what's a bit 
more" but I've been screwed by that approach in the past (which eventually 
prompted an involuntary career switch).

Patrick/Jason, I agree that taking a break would be beneficial. But like a 
FULL break for a couple months (no looking for parts, no brainstorming, 
nothing). This thing has been bouncing around in my head for the past 5 
months now, so I think a mental break would help clear the decision making 
process as it relates to this bike.

Still no decision though,
Collin

On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 11:03:38 AM UTC-8 greenteadrinkers wrote:

> Might be worth reading up on Sunk Cost Fallacy:
>
> https://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
>
> Scott
>
> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 1:43:43 PM UTC-5 Collin A wrote:
>
>> Ok, so short story long:
>>
>> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as 
>> part of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the 
>> ground. This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the 
>> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single 
>> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach 
>> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out 
>> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied, 
>> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>>
>>- (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts 
>>(cause why not?) and canti posts
>>- (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>>- (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the 
>>rear for even more clearance
>>- (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original 
>>wheels are now sold
>>- (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos 
>>which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the Appaloosa
>>- (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers 
>>(see above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>>- (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but 
>>no freewheel yet.
>>
>> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I 
>> am more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket 
>> combo and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when 
>> it comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a 
>> more expensive bike than I'd like.
>>
>> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that unique 
>> of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, etc.) 
>> and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that aspect. 
>> The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a unique 
>> feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this effort on 
>> it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Collin in Sactown
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding 
>>> how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty 
>>> impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still 
>>> new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there 
>>> is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an 
>>> exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once complete, 
>>> I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply, and 
>>> bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - and 
>>> that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid cash, 
>>> then maybe different story.  
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[greenteadrinkers]

Might be worth reading up on Sunk Cost Fallacy:

https://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

Scott

On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 1:43:43 PM UTC-5 Collin A wrote:

> Ok, so short story long:
>
> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as part 
> of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the ground. 
> This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the 
> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single 
> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach 
> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out 
> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied, 
> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>
>- (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts 
>(cause why not?) and canti posts
>- (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>- (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the 
>rear for even more clearance
>- (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original wheels 
>are now sold
>- (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos 
>which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the Appaloosa
>- (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers 
>(see above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>- (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but no 
>freewheel yet.
>
> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I 
> am more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket 
> combo and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when 
> it comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a 
> more expensive bike than I'd like.
>
> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that unique 
> of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, etc.) 
> and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that aspect. 
> The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a unique 
> feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this effort on 
> it.
>
> Cheers,
> Collin in Sactown
>
> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding 
>> how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty 
>> impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still 
>> new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there 
>> is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an 
>> exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once complete, 
>> I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply, and 
>> bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - and 
>> that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid cash, 
>> then maybe different story.  
>
>

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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Patrick Moore]

As someone who very easily gets frustrated when things don't happen fast,
I've found that abandoning a project temporarily, say for 1 or 3 or 6
months, can bring me back with interest to the project. So the question is,
is the project really valuable to you; IOW, would the result really be
useful or fun or both, or would it be just another overlapping bike? For
example, could you really use a lockable but fun to ride beater?

If the former, then I'd personally hang it up for a while and pick it up
again, while keeping any eye out for the needed parts at low used prices.

FWIW, I also find that procrastinating on a major project, like a custom,
and talking about it a great deal onlist helps a great deal to sort out
what I really want; that's why the Matthews 3 speed/fixed gear (2 wheel
options) road bike took 3 or 4 years from idea to delivery; and the wait
was worth it.

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 11:43 AM Collin A  wrote:

> Ok, so short story long:
>
> Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as part
> of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the ground.
> This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the
> flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single
> speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach
> calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out
> here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied,
> I began the modifications planned, which included:
>
>- (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts
>(cause why not?) and canti posts
>- (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
>- (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the
>rear for even more clearance
>- (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original wheels
>are now sold
>- (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos
>which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the Appaloosa
>- (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers
>(see above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
>- (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but no
>freewheel yet.
>
> The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I
> am more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket
> combo and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when
> it comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a
> more expensive bike than I'd like.
>
> The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that unique
> of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, etc.)
> and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that aspect.
> The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a unique
> feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this effort on
> it.
>
> Cheers,
> Collin in Sactown
>
> On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding
>> how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty
>> impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still
>> new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there
>> is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an
>> exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once complete,
>> I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply, and
>> bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - and
>> that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid cash,
>> then maybe different story.
>
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Collin A]

Ok, so short story long:

Bought a cool looking steel frame from a local shop that was built as part 
of a small-batch of prototypes for a project that never got off the ground. 
This was bought when I made the move from the hilly Bay Area to the 
flatlands of Sacramento, so I initially started building it as a single 
speed levee gravel bike, but clearance and braking (with long reach 
calipers) was a bit meh, especially when it got muddy (sticky clays out 
here vs. decomposed granular rock in the bay). So rather than be satisfied, 
I began the modifications planned, which included:

   - (achieved) A different fork with more clearance, fender mounts (cause 
   why not?) and canti posts
   - (achieved) Crimped stays for more clearance
   - (TBD) Adding canti posts to frame, along with more crimping in the 
   rear for even more clearance
   - (TBD) building single speed dedicated wheel, and the original wheels 
   are now sold
   - (TBD) brakes, started with R559s, but then switched to mini-motos 
   which I have since traded for some paul cantis to be used on the Appaloosa
   - (TBD) Cockpit, have stem, bars and seatpost, but no brake levers (see 
   above, currently do not have brakes option finalized)
   - (Sorta figured out) Drivetrain, got the cranks/rings, pedals, but no 
   freewheel yet.

The use has since been changed now to also fit more of a commuter that I am 
more comfortable with locking up, along with a dedicated rack/basket combo 
and generally be a bike that I don't have to worry about as much when it 
comes to maintenance, storing inside, etc. but it is trending to be a more 
expensive bike than I'd like.

The sticking issue in my mind was/is that ultimately, its not that unique 
of a bike in terms of features (fenders, cantis, 650x42 clearance, etc.) 
and I'm spending a decent amount of time and effort achieving that aspect. 
The visuals are unique and it rides nicely, but i'd rather have a unique 
feature bike than a unique looking one if I'm spending all this effort on 
it.

Cheers,
Collin in Sactown

On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 9:46:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding 
> how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty 
> impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still 
> new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there 
> is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an 
> exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once complete, 
> I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply, and 
> bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - and 
> that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid cash, 
> then maybe different story.  

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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Jason Fuller]

Agree that knowing the project base would go a long way in understanding 
how good the potential end result would be!  I am generally pretty 
impatient when I get a new project going but bear in mind there are still 
new-in-box Rivs from the mid-2000's popping up every now and again - there 
is no deadline for this build beyond your own expectations.  If it's an 
exciting build or something that would be very useful to you once complete, 
I'd just hang it up and wait until you've got the budget, supply, and 
bandwidth to finish it. Might be three months, might be three years - and 
that's OK.  If you're not feeling that attachment, or need the liquid cash, 
then maybe different story.  

-- 
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Re: [RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[luckyturnip]

Well, you’ll have to tell us more about the project.
Also, thanks for the Cycle Cats rec!

> On Dec 23, 2020, at 08:50, Collin A  wrote:
> 
> Short story, I have a frame and fork I want to build up, but with the COVID 
> supply issues, and the rising costs of the project to reach completion, I am 
> starting to consider ending the project and selling the parts I have been 
> saving it for to try and recoup some of the costs.
> 
> For those that have also thrown in the towel and moved on (to, most likely, 
> another bike project), what was the final straw? Any words of wisdom to keep 
> chugging along?
> 
> Happy Festivus,
> Collin, airing his grievances, in Sacramento
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[RBW] When to Abandon a Bike Project and Move On

[Collin A]

Short story, I have a frame and fork I want to build up, but with the COVID 
supply issues, and the rising costs of the project to reach completion, I 
am starting to consider ending the project and selling the parts I have 
been saving it for to try and recoup some of the costs.

For those that have also thrown in the towel and moved on (to, most likely, 
another bike project), what was the final straw? Any words of wisdom to 
keep chugging along?

Happy Festivus,
Collin, airing his grievances, in Sacramento

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