I was just telling my girlfriend about how, when I was a bike messenger
many years ago, I got hit by cars several times and always bounced up and
kept riding. I'm almost 50 now, and there are people who depend on me. I do
still ride in the city, but I'm a lot more judicious about where and how
Hi BBDD,
Thank you for your kind words. You're right, my bike was my lifeline
back then.
I envy you your sidewalks! Compared to my sidewalks, those look like MUP's!
John
On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-8, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
wrote:
>
> I know this was a horror story
This is *hors sujet* but not entirely, relating to rednecks in pickup
trucks.
Long ago, I stupidly planted my front wheel in a cattle guard at a
relatively heavily trafficked intersecton and did the expected flip over
the bar, smashing the wheel and bruising ribs. A line of cars pass me by
with
I have to agree with those whose approach to obeying traffic laws is
pragmatic, since sometimes these laws don't fit well with the situation;
this applies in spades to cycling where, IMO, one's own safety is paramount
after that of others for which you are responsible, and where following the
Truegolden and masmojo:
I'm finding your comments about the Dallas area intriguing. I had to live
there for about 18 months in the mid-90's for business purposes. I rented
a small apartment along Royal Lane in Irving, just North of the John
Carpenter. I took my bike down there with me and
I know this was a horror story with the threatening drivers and untimely death
of your mother. But aside from that, I was enthralled picturing a free-spirited
but grieving long-haired teen riding along the ocean, racing the squalls coming
off of the Pacific and night riding on lonely beach town
I had this when I lived in Lake County CA. No shoulders, high speed two-lane
roads and douchebags in pickups. It just sucked and I didn't ride much.
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I had forgotten that I had gone through a time like our OP's 47 years
ago in 1974.
I was in my early teens, had a drop bar bike and would blow off steam
by taking hour long rides after school along the ocean. Then three things
happened, my mom passed away, I grew my hair long out of
So the OP has had confrontations with young men in pickups? I didn't get that.
In any case, I think wherever you live, the attitude we bring is the most
important thing. See BBDD. If our attitude is, it's only a matter of time, and
I'm old, then yes, it may make sense for us to hang up the
At this point in the discussion my biggest concern for the OP is this:
"The area I live in is pretty backward. There are a number of cyclists, but
also lots of harassment from drivers while riding...mostly from young white
males in pickup trucks."
That's not really a manageable risk for he
I would also say one more thing. If I followed the “don’t ever ride on the
sidewalk” and rode on the street on our school commute there would be absolute
WAR here. And I’m certain one of the 3 of us would be dead by now.
There is one way up this mountain and one way down it. Two lanes run each
Let's look at this from another perspective. Most of the posters on RBW are
also drivers. I would bet that almost every one of us breaks the law in our
cars with regularity. As an example, the aforementioned 9D has a speed
limit of 30mph. Although I am conscientious about my speed on local
BBDG comments that "if sidewalks are clear, I'll use them." This is a valid
option for her most of the time:
"Nevada permits bicycles to ride on the street and also on most sidewalks
except in certain large municipal areas with local regulations. To accommodate
cyclists, cars are required, on
I thought wow that's interesting. But from googling the description of
traffic accident stats or penalties in India doesn't seem accurate.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/26/india-reduce-road-death-penalties-high-rate-accidents
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 10:27:17 PM UTC-8,
I never make eye contact with drivers. Usually I can’t even see into their
highly reflective smoked glass cages.*
I do time things at stop signs so it’s clear who has precedence, and I ride
where lots of other cyclists ride, which is a natural advantage.
*I drive too, so it’s not an “us vs
One other tid-bit, relating to my OP...
I had heart surgery about 18 months ago, and while rehabbing (it went well,
thanks goodness) a nurse came by our home for a weekly wellness check. She
saw my bike, and said she was a triathlete. (Trust me when I say, she
looked like it...totally ripped.)
I hear all the points of view about riding on the sidewalk. In general, I
avoid riding on the sidewalk almost all the time. On rare occasions, I will
ride on the sidewalk if there are no pedestrians and there is no other
option. I was told by the executive director of the local bike advocacy
So the ass sez to the gas ... hey who farted ?
Vengeance is mine !
Ahahahahahahahaaha ! ! !
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 4:29:23 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Wow! I'm very glad you are not only still around but up and about and able
> to post your message. I hope you
So the ass sez to the fart ... hey !!! who passed the gas ?
Ahahahahahahahaaha ! ! !
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 4:29:23 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
> Wow! I'm very glad you are not only still around but up and about and able
> to post your message. I hope you get
Wow! I'm very glad you are not only still around but up and about and able
to post your message. I hope you get full financial satisfaction from the
fool, even if you have to let justice wait ("Vengeance is mine; I will
repay" seth the Lord*). And I admire your doughty emotional resilience in
the
No, we're not going to stop riding on empty sidewalks as wide as the one in
Leah's pic because someone in a car might have bad thoughts about us.
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Well put, Mark!
I tend to follow all of the rules of the road, but only when it works with
my safety: I'll do whatever I have to do to stay safe, like use a usually
empty sidewalk for a very brief portion on a busy and fast four-lane road
with no shoulder, or bolt out into the intersection
There is no "tit for tat" here, the playing field is completely lopsided.
Even if every cyclist rode like a jerk, we are talking about a human being
on a 30-pound bicycle vs. one in a 3,000 pound car. They can do stupid
stuff and get killed for it, but generally, morally, they must be given the
And that there is a LCS Clem L, so, like, twice the length of your average
bicycle! In other words, one wde sidewalk;^)
On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 8:18:16 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
wrote:
>
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For me in comes down to one very basic principle and that is the road ways
and everything associated with them were designed for *motor vehicles *simple
really. As a result they were not designed for me OR my bicycle. I am
forced to deal with a system that was not designed for me. So, If I
I appreciate the support, but If you mean you regularly ride against
traffic, that may appear as though it is "safer" but it assuredly is not.
If done now and then on a short wide road to avoid a lengthy or potentially
dangerous go-around, perhaps (sidewalk might be best in this case).
You
Paul,
I'm the same age as Bill and feel exactly as he does. Still sharp on the bike
versus the car. I commute daily and on the weekends have "joy rides" with my
wife on road bikesoften in high-traffic areas. We both frequently remind
each other to ride (very) defensively and then focus
In my area, as I’m sure in most areas, the struggle between cyclists and
motorists is very apparent. Include pedestrians, joggers, and other users of
the road as well. (I won’t even get into the explosion of ebikes as of late).
The relationship doesn’t seem to be getting better, despite the
Props to all who have posted here for their thoughtful responses. I am a near
62-year old cyclist who has been a daily bike commuter for over thirty years
here in New York City and before that in DC. My particular take in the
driver/cyclist dynamic is that most of the inroads we cyclists have
I agree with Mark - “so might as well take a few prerogatives!” To that
end, and at the risk of sounding even more like a guy “giving cyclists a
bad name”, I routinely “salmon” cycle up the street in the opposite
direction of the cars.
I’ve been shoved off the road too many times, and hit once, by
On the subject of sidewalk riding, I wrote this back in 2011. I think it still
holds up.
https://kentsbike.blogspot.com/2011/12/pounced-with-fire-on-flaming-roads.html
Kent Peterson
Eugene, OR USA
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I'm 67 and have been commuting, touring and club riding since I was
20. I think it has prevented my perception and reflexes from deteriorating
as I've seen in others my age. I think the occasional close call is a
healthy reminder to pay attention and ride safely. It will happen but I
Regarding the legality of sidewalk riding, I used to be in the camp that
riding illegally on sidewalks gives bicyclists a bad name. And in fact,
lots of people who do ride on busy sidewalks can endanger pedestrians with
excess speed. Riding a bicycle doesn't turn jerks into considerate
A number of my friends are on Peleton/Zwift during the winter months. They get
a ride in as well as socializing with friends. Plus you get to ride in cities
all over the world. It wouldn’t be a bad option.
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Paul,
I don't think you're overreacting. Getting a spinner sounds like a good
plan to me, because you yourself thought of it, and it must feel like the
right thing for you at this point in time! Everyone has their own measure
for 'safety', and you're certainly entitled to yours. I choose not
Thank you all for the thoughtful and measured responses. I have read and
considered each one of them.
Right at this moment, I'm inclined to sell my Soma San Marcos -- which I
love -- and get a high end spinner. I don't want to lose my fitness, and I
like the feeling of peddling. (Selling my
Paul, my guess is that had you been 100 ft closer to the intersection you would
have sensed that something was not right (probably hearing a car coming and
that it wasn’t slowing) and reacted in such a way that you were not creamed.
Even the driver may have acted differently, not that I’m
Paul, I hardly give cyclists a bad name. Quite the opposite.
It’s not my style to be mad at complete strangers on the Internet, so I’m not
going to be. You have yourself a nice weekend.
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 31, 2020, at 4:51 PM, PaulS wrote:
>
> “ Las Vegas municipal laws prohibit
I live in Northern California. Everyone not living in N. CA. thinks I live in
San Francisco.
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I don’t live in Vegas.
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 31, 2020, at 4:51 PM, PaulS wrote:
>
> “ Las Vegas municipal laws prohibit riding a bicycle on the sidewalk within
> city limits – including on the Strip.“
>
> Nevada may not specifically state no sidewalk riding, but each
>
“ Las Vegas municipal laws prohibit riding a bicycle on the sidewalk within
city limits – including on the Strip.“
Nevada may not specifically state no sidewalk riding, but each
city/municipalities have their own ordinances. For instance, in Vegas, no
riding within city limits. Check your
"Sidewalk" denotes a myriad of different things in different places. I've seen
the sidewalk Leah is referencing in videos she'd posted on Instagram, and it's
as wide as streets in Berkeley I drive to go visit my daughter. There's one
like that near Riv HQ, too, which you HAVE to use part-way to
Sidewalk riding is legal in Nevada. If there is a bike lane (rarely, where I
ride), you are supposed to bike in it. If I am on a fast-moving road and
there’s an unprotected bike lane and there are also no pedestrians in sight - I
ride on the sidewalk. The sidewalks are wide here, maybe 7 or 8
On 1/31/20 6:52 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:
"Be extremely careful at intersections. You're not where drivers expect you to
be..."
I've found this to be true as a pedestrian, too. Drivers just don't seem to
expect anyone to be walking!
Maybe, but it's far worse when you're moving at three
Which is why I said I slow up or stop at every intersection and I make eye
contact with drivers. So far so good.
Let me reiterate: Do I ride on sidewalks all the time? No. If there are
pedestrians I walk the bike. Not if there are MUPs - there often are. Not if
it’s a quiet neighborhood. I
I've had lots of close calls as well. Now, I primarily ride dirt/gravel.
You should try it. Early (5am) road rides are ok as well.
*And please do not ride on the sidewalk*. Very bad form and as someone
said, illegal in most areas. In my state, if there is no bike lane or
shoulder, you can
"Be extremely careful at intersections. You're not where drivers expect you to
be..."
I've found this to be true as a pedestrian, too. Drivers just don't seem to
expect anyone to be walking!
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Be extremely careful at intersections. You're not where drivers expect
you to be, you're going much faster than pedestrians would be going, and
you may be going in an unexpected direction. All this adds up to a much
better chance of a collision at an intersection than you might think.
On
If you're crowding pedestrians and being a nuisance, the cops will kick you off
the sidewalk. Clearly that's not you and they have better things to do. Like
pull over morons texting and driving.
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So is texting and driving (illegal), but it’s rampant. So I’ll use my common
sense over obeying the rarely enforced sidewalk law. I’ll chance a ticket over
a funeral.
I rode on a main thoroughfare today on the sidewalk. By the police station.
With police passing by. I should technically be
On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 11:59:58 AM UTC-8, George Schick wrote:
>
>
>
> "You just can't be absolutely certain of anything out there, eye contact
> or not."
>
This is part of why I'm thinking of giving it up. No amount of care can
overcome the behavior of every driver. Sooner or
Riding on the side wallks is illegal where I live, unless the sidewalk is part
of signed multi-use pathway. I'm active in working to make our streets safer
for cyclists and pedestrians when they are crossing them.
On Friday, January 31, 2020, 04:58:54 PM CST, Leah Peterson
wrote:
I
I agree with Mas about sidewalks. If the sidewalks are clear, use ‘em. If I am
on the sidewalk and I encounter a walker (rare), I will jump off and walk the
bike. Unless it’s an extra-wide one that is made to be shared. Then I just slow
way down and smile and wave.
I don’t want to hear “riding
Actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately! I'm only 57, but I can't
go like I used to; when I was 20 my strategy was to ride offensively; in other
words I made a spectacle out of myself by riding, ah, well, maybe flamboyantly
is a good word? A whole mess of activity.
I knew a girl
Yes, except it is fear that has killed his *urge*, due to an experience in
which he imagined what might have happened if he had been 100 feet closer
to someone who went through a stop sign, and his own physical challenges.
He is asking if he is overreacting, and if other iBobs have dealt with
Bill, your response tripped me knuckle headed brain to remember a few other
bits I wanted to say, as well as a few new ones:
- Writing in to a bike group inherently has a "I want to ride but have this
challenge" component to it. Absolutely, if riding is no longer fun or
desired and
Correct, Bill, this was my first response to him. Riding bicycles is optional,
walking is nice, too.
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Most of the responses appear to be recommendations and encouragement on how
to manage the risks associated with cycling and the fear of those risks.
Maybe that's the important part for the OP. My main takeaway was that the
OP hasn't ridden for months and has no urge to ride. If you don't
I've at least twice had drivers blow through red lights or stop signs at
speed just as I was approaching on a bike; on one occasion I was heading
north just a few 10s of feet south of an intersection when a woman driving
east ran a stop sign at 35 mph and t-boned a car heading south, knocking
hard
Paul -
I'm sitting here in a chair with a boot cast almost 3 weeks post-op and
facing about 3 months without being able to do much of anything, then
several months of rehab. I am 62 years old and I chose to go through this
so I could have a shot at riding my bike again and get back to the bike
Leah - while I agree with your friend's father's eye-contact rule there's
no guarantee that it will be accurate 100% of the time. Three or four
years ago an unfortunate but related incident occurred with the in-law of
one of my wife's nieces. He rides a Ti framed bike with 23mm tires at very
So sorry to hear about your scare.
I found this article to be very helpful regarding visibility on a bike
https://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/
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For me the eye contact rule and wave and smile at all cars/drivers,
combined with never presuming I have the right of way even when I do,
eliminates 99.99% of all close calls and makes the ride far more enjoyable.
Today, I was climbing after a wee snow, it was 16˚F, and several drivers
rolled
I consider my riding to be more of a lifestyle than a hobby. I use my bicycle
for 90% of my shopping, errand, and socializing trips. My response above was
based on the op's position as a recreational rider. But there are those who
choose to ride for more than just hobby or recreational
I'm kinda glad someone decided to post on this subject because I've been in
a similar situation for a while now. A little over 15 years ago I moved
from a small town (<20K)/rural area to a very densely populated
urban/suburban area and more or less figured that my carefree riding on
sparsely
Just a little anecdote
The eye contact rule. It actually isn’t my own idea - it’s a practice I
borrowed from my best friend’s dad. He is a cardio thoracic surgeon and has a
ti Seven he has been riding to work for many years. His commute is 11 mi each
way. Since a surgeon’s livelihood
PG
I've had the same thoughts during the last few years. (will be 72 in April)
I was living in a high density area and although my past involvement in
motorcycles taught me to anticipate the worst, I was getting less and less
comfortable riding on the roads.
I retired last summer and part of
Unfortunately Paul's experiences are not uncommon. Riding on the road has
definitely gotten worse a cell phones and a generally frantic pace have
become common.
Paul, even though you say mountain and trail riding don't appeal to you,
there is a wide range of riding that is not gonzo mountain
Paul-
It’s a hobby, not a necessity. If you’re not having fun, don’t do it.
Find another way to exercise, because at our age (I’m 70), it is exercise
or die.
I would miss the sounds, smells, feel of the pavement, and even the
headwinds if I quit cycling. My opinion is that the best way to
At age 64 I find that bicycling is too much fun to stop so I am careful,
defensive, establish eye contact with drivers, wave at drivers, thank
drivers for being safe, wear a helmet, ride with a bright headlight, avoid
riding on roads without a wide shoulder and ride trails as much as I can.
It's a sad commentary on the road our society has taken when people are in
justifiable fear of simply using the most efficient, convivial tool ever
created for human transport. There are real statistics and percentages, but
also our minds, and the weight we give those numbers, and how we
I'm 67 and am in Florida, the number one state for bike fatalities. I just
ride defensively and try to anticipate what a motorist might do. It's not
difficult to plan a ride when the traffic is minimal.
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 7:34:28 PM UTC-5, PG wrote:
>
> I'm turning 67 in a week,
Leah addresses another thing I meant to include and forgot because I'm not in
my 30s anymore and forget stuff: I used to ride all kinds of ridiculous
car-crowded roads I don't anymore; my attitude was I had "a right" to be there
and would not yield. Well that was dumb and I stopped doing it. I
Oh, Paul, this is so sad. And relatable. If I had a close call like yours, I
might be very tempted to put the bike away. I got banged up hiking 2 weeks ago
and being injured is no joke - and the older you get, the more terrifying it
is. I’m in my 30s, but that’s my theory. Top fears: hitting my
Doug,
Yes, that's how I ride, too, and with your (knock on wood) results. I probably
got it from being a motorcyclist before cyclist, you get pretty good at
predicting what that idiot is going to do and then watching them do it. One of
my favorite things to shout at a motorist meeting my low
Paul:
Most of those who've commented are of an age where they may remember the
term "defensive driving". I try to practice "defensive cycling." To me,
that means viewing every situation for the potential to go wrong. Is that
car rolling up at an intersection really going to stop, or will it
I'm only 61 and I have to admit to having the same feelings you're
having. It's not just the fear of being so injured I end up in the
hospital. The last time I was taken to emergency and admitted, I contracted
a lung infection in the hospital which was partially antibiotic resistant,
and
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