Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Patrick, I agree ride quality does take precedence, and we all trust Riv to put that first and foremost, and they deliver. But there is more than one way to skin a cat, as they say, so there are lots of different ways to make a bike that rides well and is durable (the other really important

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Oh, and I have to say about the Niner: as far as I can tell, it's a very Rivendellian bike in its subordination of form to function; but true, it's not a Rivendellian mannter of subordinating form to function. But that's fine; there is plenty of room for wonderful, practical bikes that are outside

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Ben Miller wrote: > ... end of the day Grant decides what Riv is. (This is said slightly > tongue-in-cheek, but only slightly) > That's true; what is left for debate is, if this is all that Riv is, is it worth following? I've followed

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

In response to the original posting by Bill, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Niner is definitely NOT Rivvish (sorry). There may be a few things or a lot that make it un-Riv, but what really jumps out at me is the carbon fork. I mean, come on, RBW has had whole campaigns

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

> > A Rivish bike description from your 'average' rider: A Rivish bike has a > steel frame, (usually) a leather saddle, upright-ish handlebars, an ability > to carry a load and is comfortable. > Clayton Bailey (Bendite) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

It's free online: http://www.mom.arq.ufmg.br/mom/arq_interface/3a_aula/illich_tools_for_conviviality.pdf Go right to Two Watersheds. Don't get Mangry! (Mentally Angry, spin-off of Hangry.) On Sunday, October 29, 2017 at 9:00:16 PM UTC-7, Philip Williamson wrote: > > I’ll approach it again

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I’ll approach it again for the ideas, since you recommend it. That style of academic writing makes me instantly angry, so it might not work. :^) Philip www.biketinker.com Santa Rosa, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Nope. Pure Ivan. This was written in the 1970s. Now as we face more and more the consequences of "non-convivial" tool use (Illich includes whole institutions such as health care, transportation, education, under tools) his writing is taking on an air of prescience. He may not be the most

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Not (yet) a Riv owner so take this with an extra-large grain of salt. What put RBW on my radar--and keeps numerous brands off--is that the bikes all seem to: - Favor versatility over specialization - Maintain a healthy skepticism toward technical changes with cost and/or complexity

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I'm sort of with Phillip here. Rivendell has been evolving during its tenure in the cycling world, but it began based in low BB, long chain stay, neutral handling designs, with a lean to comfortably high handle bars, leather saddles, wider tires (limited by brakes available at the time) and

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

That was awful. I hope that was a translation by a doctoral candidate eager to impress, and not the author’s own words. To de-digress, I think a Rivvish bike has high bars, a leather saddle, and a red basket net. It’s steel, and either made by Rivendell, or from the 80s. Surly and Soma bikes

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

My puzzlement with this definition is that it doesn't really define anything as Rivvish--you can make a case for just about any bicycle out there. For me, the word "convivial" works to describe a Rivvish bicycle, in the sense that Ivan Illich defines it in his book Tools For Conviviality.

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Other not-Retro Riv things: Wide drop bars Flat pedals with spikes Curvy crank arms Wide range doubles Just thinking that as I rode home on my Saluki with wide upright bars, wide range double x 10 speed, flat pedals with spikes and indexed thumbies. -J -- You received this message because

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Laing hit the nail on the head for me. I like to fool around with 30-40 year old frames and components, overhauling, sometimes repainting (rattle can, of course), etc. Right now I'm in the middle of rebuilding an old early-70's Shimano Crane short-cage rear derailleur that I plan to install

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I've seen many opinions on what constitutes a "Rivish" bike and my own thoughts have varied over the years. At this point, I would say that a durable, practical, versatile and comfortable bike ridden with a "Just Ride" attitude, is "Rivish". I can't quite convince myself that a carbon bike

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I've seen many opinions on what constitutes a "Rivish" bike and my own thoughts have varied over the years. At this point, I would say that a durable, practical, versatile and comfortable bike ridden with a "Just Ride" attitude, is "Rivish". I can't quite convince myself that a carbon bike

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

To me a Rivish bike used to mean a highly engineered modern lugged steel frame that was meant for riding, not any type of competition use. The lugged thing has partially gone away, but the other still mostly holds. I like Rivs because they disappear beneath me. No need to think about or

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I biked with a friend last weekend who doesn't own a Rivendell or a Rivvish bike. I had him ride my Romulus with albatross bars for a few minutes. When he got off of the bike his first comment said with a smile, "I felt like I was a kid again riding my bike!" -- You received this message

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

QUICKBEAM! "It's just a road-going track bike that can fit 42mm tires. Totally normal. Retro. Plus it's designed specifically for two gear ratios." "Oh is that all? I'll take two." Philip www.biketinker.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I have owned 4 Riv's and my current is a 59cm Roadeo. To me "Rivish" is finding a bike that you can enjoy riding and also be fairly comforable doing so. Pretty simple. On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 1:12:47 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > I was at Riv HQ yesterday and had a longish chat

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

That's where it can become a boring semantic debate. Somebody could say 'the Roadeo is a road racing bike that can take 32mm tires', and then point to a 1963 Jack Taylor that can take 32mm tires. Still, to me the Roadeo is unique. More BB drop, slacker STA, slightly upsloping TT, etc. Grant

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 4:21:24 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > I can't tell if this question is honest curiosity or the beginning of a > semantic debate. I hope it's the former, because semantic debates are > super boring. > Honest curiosity.There has been a LOT of

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Great thread, Bill. I love Will's take. My own evolution as an incorrigible tinkerer had been to detach from the opinions of others. I love my bikes, but they are MY bikes and I get a lot of pleasure from figuring it what I want from each one. Jay -- You received this message because you

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I can't tell if this question is honest curiosity or the beginning of a semantic debate. I hope it's the former, because semantic debates are super boring. Any of them. There is no Rivendell model that is a copy of something that came before, in my opinion. If there's a model that

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

What's a Rivvish bike ? The only place to find the "what" , is where there is no "what". -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 2:09:32 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > Rivendell does not copy or replicate any old proven designs. They > design bikes that have never been built before by anyone, ever. > Which frames in particular are you talking about? -david parsons --

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I stand corrected by Bill. On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: > If you think that list is a retrogrouch list, then I don't know what you > mean with the word "retrogrouch". To me, retrogrouch means "I like this > old thing, and the new thing is crap, and

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

If you think that list is a retrogrouch list, then I don't know what you mean with the word "retrogrouch". To me, retrogrouch means "I like this old thing, and the new thing is crap, and I don't even have to try it to know I hate it". Rivendell is not pro-friction-shifting. Rivendell

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Since when are high bars "retro"?   Anything but, I'd say.  Back in the day, it was inches of bar drop.  You didn't even see bars level with saddle back then, never mind "modern Rivendell sky high". On 10/26/2017 05:45 PM, Lee Legrand wrote: Bill there are retrogrouch aspects of it.

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Bill there are retrogrouch aspects of it. Friction shifting High bars for riding Riding for enjoyment rather than fast pace road cycling Lugged steel frame vs composite Tires wider than 25 mm (this is more bucking the system) I view Rivendell as a company that makes bicycle for the vast majority

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

It is my opinion that the people who think Rivendell is either "retro" or "retrogrouch" are taking an EXTREMELY short-sighted view of things. You can't see the forest for the lugs if you think Rivendell is using old proven designs. Lugged-steel is an old proven construction method, perhaps.

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Riding Individualistically Versus Inclusive Stylistic Habituation Or something like that... Brian Cole Lawrenceville, NJ On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 3:56:28 PM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote: > I always thought Rivish was centered around the retrogrouch philosophy in > which steel lugged

Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I always thought Rivish was centered around the retrogrouch philosophy in which steel lugged frame, wide tires for comfort, bicycling is for enjoyment and travel over speed, modern technology is good but the old design has proven itself to work well, therefore no need to constantly move with

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

I think there are two ways to view this question. Riv-ish could be the style of Riv bikes (leather, lugs, bags, etc) or the idea of Riv bikes (bikes that work for the owner regardless of current trends or other people’s opinions). When most people say or hear Riv-ish I’d guess they think of the

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

My EPIC ride to nowhere is in fact Saturday. I promise I will document the event. Perhaps even with a short film. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

Good luck on your ride Saturday; it is still Saturday, correct? Let us know how it goes On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 3:12:47 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > I was at Riv HQ yesterday and had a longish chat with several of the > staff. Will, Corey, Roman, Mark, and I waved hi to Vince.

[RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

The upshot is that "being Rivvish" does not mean blindly following Riv's style. It means freeing yourself from style-following. I would suggest that ANY bike you intend to JUST RIDE is Rivvish by default - like being a kid again. Picasso once said: *It took me four years to paint like