Meeting is cancelled.
-Original Message
-
From: Gene Fieg
Sent: 2011/04/08, 00:52
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] FRBR
This reminds me of that moment: how hundreds of years worth
of experience is on this list? And there is no agreement on
something like *what is a work*?! How can we ever hope for
any kind of consistency? Of course it goes without saying
that with no consistency, everyone will be fated
Jim Weinheimer wrote:
This reminds me of that moment: how hundreds of years worth of
experience is on this list? And there is no agreement on something
like *what is a work*?! How can we ever hope for any kind of
consistency? Of course it goes without saying that with no
consistency, everyone
I am fairly new to the cataloguing world so I may be lacking in understanding,
but it seems to me that the full capabilities of the FRBR model will not be
realised until we move away from flat databases to something that will cater
for the full hierarchical structure of FRBR. Until (or if)
Jim, I think you're over-thinking it. Confronted with a new book,
don't we examine it and check our favorite database(s) to verify
whether it's a new work or a version of an existing work? If new, we
just treat it at the manifestation level. Under the
currently-anticipated regime for
Hal Cain wrote:
snip
Jim, I think you're over-thinking it. Confronted with a new book,
don't we examine it and check our favorite database(s) to verify
whether it's a new work or a version of an existing work? If new, we
just treat it at the manifestation level. Under the
currently-anticipated
Wait, wait!
I thought the entire purpose of FRBR/RDA was to collocate everything together
so that patrons would see an entity-relationship display... therefore the
book and the movie are only different expressions of the same work. So
now, this is NOT the case?
Please excuse me while I go in
Ask yourself: is the movie a valid alternative to the book? Is the creator of
the movie the same as the creator of the book (if the answer is no to either,
it can't be a work).
The purpose of FRBR has never been to put related works together in one
hiërarchy, but the works will of course be
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description
and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of
Kathleen Lamantia
Sent: 8 aprilie 2011 15:41
I thought the entire purpose of FRBR/RDA was to collocate
everything together so that
Hello,
As the person who put the FRBR representation up on the web, I thought
I'd mention a couple of things about it.
It was intended to accompany introductory internal training for RDA and
FRBR, so its main intention is to illustrate as clearly and graphically
as I could how FRBR works
Good point Kathleen!
However, having sat through a number of Harry Potter films with a progressively
taller Potter fan at my side groaning and mumbling phrases of the general
form that is so not the way it is in the book - I remain puzzled. For the
reverse of this - the manga film Howl's moving
But the creator of the book and the creator(s) of the movie are NOT the
same people. The movie contains aspects such as costume, set, choice of
shots, sound, acting, and on and on that are the result of the actions of
different creators, none of whom are Jane Austen. Even the text is quite
Yes, I see your point in a sense because the aspects vary - but it's still
Austen's ideas and characters, etc...
I've finally figured out a way to express what FRBR/RDA feels like to me
after several years of study and practice.
I feel as if I've fallen down the rabbit hole and am searching
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Weinheimer Jim
Sent: April 8, 2011 10:25 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] FRBR
Brenndorfer, Thomas wrote:
snip
The
I've finally figured out a way to express what FRBR/RDA feels like to me
after several years of study and practice.
I feel as if I've fallen down the rabbit hole and am searching for Alice while
accompanied by Franz Kafka.
Yow! That's at least the second specific reference to the RDA
Well, it seems to me that Pride and Prejudice is Jane Austen's conception
(work) no matter what form (expression)
it takes, so I would answer your 2nd question, is the creator the same?
with yes. As to valid alternatives,
that seems to me to be cataloger's judgment, so we are left with a
On 08/04/2011 16:37, Brenndorfer, Thomas wrote:
snip
RDA would call those Derivative Works under the Related Work element.
LibraryThing calls them Related Movies.
Neither RDA nor LibraryThing calls them the same work.
/snip
So, what is this record? http://www.librarything.com/work/2264 Is it a
I would welcome Mr. Ellroy's addition to the gang :)
Kathleen F. Lamantia, MLIS
Technical Services Librarian
Stark County District Library
715 Market Avenue North
Canton, OH 44702
330-458-2723
klaman...@starklibrary.org
Inspiring Ideas ∙ Enriching Lives ∙ Creating Community
The Stark County
You will not find Austen, Jane 1775-1817 as the 'main entry' on any AACR2
record for a movie version of Pride and Prejudice. - Yes, of course, that's
exactly my point about FRBR/RDA
Kathleen F. Lamantia, MLIS
Technical Services Librarian
Stark County District Library
715 Market Avenue North
___
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Weinheimer Jim
[j.weinhei...@aur.edu]
Sent: April-08-11 10:56 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] FRBR
On 08/04/2011
___
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kathleen Lamantia
[klaman...@starklibrary.org]
Sent: April-08-11 11:07 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] FRBR
You
Kathleen Lamantia wrote:
Well, it seems to me that Pride and Prejudice is Jane Austen's conception
(work) no matter what form (expression) it takes, so I would answer your 2nd
question, is the creator the same? with yes. As to valid alternatives, that
seems to me to be cataloger's judgment,
Good point Thomas!
What if it was the film of Death of a salesman - with Dustin Hoffman - rather
than the play text?
Still sunshine in Liverpool - soon be time for home!
The company on this list is good!
Best wishes
Keith
Keith V. Trickey
Programme Manager
MA / MSc Information Library
John, that is a beautiful, eloquent explanation, one that
works for me. Thank you.
Diana Brooking (206) 685-0389
Cataloging Librarian (206) 685-8782 fax
Suzzallo Library dbroo...@u.washington.edu
University of Washington
Box 352900
Seattle WA
However, we must all remain aware that as we become 'indoctrinated' into the
rules we are less likely to question them. This is something I point out each
time I conduct NACO training. We should continue to question. The new trainees
always have questions and too often the answer is 'because
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of J. McRee Elrod
Sent: April 8, 2011 11:21 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Impact of RDA (was FRBR)
...
Jean Riddle
No librarian worth his/her salt would, which is my point about FRBR/RDA. I
am NOT arguing in favor of it,
I'm only trying to deal with it as it is - or appears to be, or is trying to
be - thus my reference to Carroll and Kafka
I am very confused about your point of FRBR/RDA. It does
Jonathan Rochdind said:
I am very confused about your point of FRBR/RDA. It does NOT decide
that a movie is the same work as the book it's based on -- just like
AACR2.
Except that RDA does not require the 7XX for the book/movie in the
record for the other be justified in the description. The
Colleagues:
As of Saturday, April 9, the Library of Congress will be temporarily closed
until further notice due to the general U.S. federal agency shutdown. During
this period, the Library will not be responding to any communications received.
Cataloger's Desktop and Classification Web will
Linda Fletcher
Library Associate
W. Va. Northern Community College
1704 Market Street
Wheeling, WV 26003
(304)214-8955
Mac Elrod wrote:
Except that RDA does not require the 7XX for the book/movie in the
record for the other be justified in the description. The
relationship may be in a 7XX$i, which the OPAC may or may not display.
Sound to me like a problem with the OPAC, not with the cataloging rules.
Jane Austen's novel was the basis for the motion picture Pride and Prejudice,
but it is not the work Austen conceptualized. This would be like someone
thinking that a t-shirt with the Mona Lisa on it is the work of DaVinci.
Andrea
--
Andrea Leigh
Moving
This would be
like someone thinking that a t-shirt with the Mona Lisa on it is the work
of DaVinci.
Which reminds me of Marcel Duchamp's L.H.O.O.Q. (Mona Lisa with a mustache) and
the Andy Warhol silk screen prints of Mona Lisa. How would these fit into the
FRBR model? (enjoying this very
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Early sea...@crl.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 20:19:47 +
This would be
like someone thinking that a t-shirt with the Mona Lisa on it is the work
of DaVinci.
Which reminds me of Marcel Duchamp's L.H.O.O.Q. (Mona Lisa with a mustache)
and the
I really should stay out of this because FRBR makes my head spin, but what the
heck, it's Friday--in some way; the Mona Lisa t-shirt is related to the
original Mona Lisa and I would argue that they are not different FRBR works but
different expressions, maybe not the child of the painting but a
On 08/04/2011 22:19, Stephen Early wrote:
snip
Which reminds me of Marcel Duchamp's L.H.O.O.Q. (Mona Lisa with a mustache) and
the Andy Warhol silk screen prints of Mona Lisa. How would these fit into the
FRBR model? (enjoying this very interesting discussion)
/snip
I agree that this is an
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Pat Sayre McCoy
Sent: April 8, 2011 5:15 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] FRBR
I really should stay out of this
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Weinheimer Jim
Sent: April 8, 2011 5:29 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] FRBR
.
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