[RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
Wrenches, For a grid-tied-with-backup system that is still in the design stage, we have a customer request for a signal to let them know when an outage occurs and they are running on backup power, so that they may turn off unnecessary loads and "go into backup consciousness". The problem is that the entire home would be on backup, with the GTWB system tied into a meter and main disconnect location away from the home, rather than the more typical main panel/subpanel approach at the home. Any relay-based alarm based on loss of grid AC would not likely trigger, as the switchover is too quick. Any ideas for simple solutions, please? Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
Todd, Yes on all points. Why back up the whole house? The residence is a remodeled traditional New Mexico adobe and the property is fully landscaped; the original meter and service was moved out to a new location and the home's breaker panel location was on an exterior wall around which concrete was poured for a patio. The home has none of the killer electric loads (cooking, water heating, etc.) to make the whole-house option a poor choice. We too normally separate out essential loads from nonessential, but that isn't an option here. Thus the separation can't serve to alert the customer of an outage. The battery-powered light, or an audible alarm out by the road, were the solutions that I though of, but I was hoping for a more imaginative solution. Incidentally, your comment about an amp-hour meter brings another question: a traditional amp-hour meter, like a TriMetric 2020,doesn't work well in GTWB situations, as the charged parameters are seldom met absent a grid outage, and thus the charge efficiency error can accumulate over time and lead to false readings. What do you use, Todd, or if you use a traditional amp-hour meter, how do you program it to fool it into maintaining accuracy in a system that always sits in float? Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/9/2012 10:02 AM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: 99% of the grid-ties i do incorporate battery backup. when i am wiring a system into a house, i usually put the amp hour meter in the kitchen and only wire essential back up loads (water pump, communication, refrigeration basic lighting) into the system. this design alerts the customer of when the grid is down and they need to go into 'conserve mode', and also eliminates power robbing waste. i am not sure why your customer would want to have the whole house backed up? i try to leave a couple of non essential, but noticeable circuits as 'grid only'. if the house is already wired and changing a circuit is not possible, you will need to somehow access a grid only circuit (the ac input to the inverter) and put some kind of alarm on it. hardware stores sell battery powered lights that come on when the power is off. one of these could be modified with a sonalert (or other audible alarm) which would come on to notify the customer to change their behavior. todd On Thursday, August 9, 2012 8:18am, "Allan Sindelar" al...@positiveenergysolar.com said: Wrenches, For a grid-tied-with-backup system that is still in the design stage, we have a customer request for a signal to let them know when an outage occurs and they are running on backup power, so that they may turn off unnecessary loads and "go into backup consciousness". The problem is that the entire home would be on backup, with the GTWB system tied into a meter and main disconnect location away from the home, rather than the more typical main panel/subpanel approach at the home. Any relay-based alarm based on loss of grid AC would not likely trigger, as the switchover is too quick. Any ideas for simple solutions, please? Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings:
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
Couldn't you power a relay from the incoming utility, so it closes on loss of utility? On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote: Wrenches, For a grid-tied-with-backup system that is still in the design stage, we have a customer request for a signal to let them know when an outage occurs and they are running on backup power, so that they may turn off unnecessary loads and go into backup consciousness. The problem is that the entire home would be on backup, with the GTWB system tied into a meter and main disconnect location away from the home, rather than the more typical main panel/subpanel approach at the home. Any relay-based alarm based on loss of grid AC would not likely trigger, as the switchover is too quick. Any ideas for simple solutions, please? Allan -- *Allan Sindelar* *al...@positiveenergysolar.com* al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* *www.positiveenergysolar.com* http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ * * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
I agree, Chris. For very little money you could even monitor the relay to have it email, phone or SMS them when the grid goes out. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Chris Mason cometenergysyst...@gmail.comwrote: Couldn't you power a relay from the incoming utility, so it closes on loss of utility? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
Can you elaborate on this? It sounds like something I could use in other situations... What equipment is required? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, Chris. For very little money you could even monitor the relay to have it email, phone or SMS them when the grid goes out. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Chris Mason cometenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Couldn't you power a relay from the incoming utility, so it closes on loss of utility? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
Yeah, I realize you can use a computer. I was hoping for a more commercialized standalone device to send email or SMS with just an Ethernet or wireless connection. You said for little money. I misinterpreted that as simple. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: Jason; The relay and an indicator light or buzzer is easy -- Grainger or Radio Shack parts. There are multitudes of monitors for anything -- voltage, current, temperature, water level, switch state, specific gravity (!) that have live serial port output possibly in addition to memory card logging. Once you have data on serial out, it's easy to network it anywhere, including emails and even live web page widgets. Talk to Jim Jarvis at APRS World if you want a custom solution, and also Atkinson Electronics, but it is also easy DIY. It can take a small computer to format and send more complicated data in an email or web friendly form, but there are Linux boxes the size of thumb drives, and the software is all free and open source. If you are into it (or have a colleague that is) you can build your own using Arduino too. Basically, once you have something that can read a serial port, you can do anything with the data it gives you -- beam it via wifi, cell, satellite, what have you. DAN FINK On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Can you elaborate on this? It sounds like something I could use in other situations... What equipment is required? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, Chris. For very little money you could even monitor the relay to have it email, phone or SMS them when the grid goes out. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Chris Mason cometenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Couldn't you power a relay from the incoming utility, so it closes on loss of utility? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
APRS World can provide you with a simple (on your end) turnkey solution, including internet alerts, long distance wifi links, etc. On the APRS monitors we have deployed, we still have lots of extra A/D inputs we are not even using. The possibilities are mind boggling. Full disclosure: They are one of our educational sponsors at http://www.buckville.com -- because we like their gear. As simple or as complicated as you want it. DAN On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Yeah, I realize you can use a computer. I was hoping for a more commercialized standalone device to send email or SMS with just an Ethernet or wireless connection. You said for little money. I misinterpreted that as simple. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: Jason; The relay and an indicator light or buzzer is easy -- Grainger or Radio Shack parts. There are multitudes of monitors for anything -- voltage, current, temperature, water level, switch state, specific gravity (!) that have live serial port output possibly in addition to memory card logging. Once you have data on serial out, it's easy to network it anywhere, including emails and even live web page widgets. Talk to Jim Jarvis at APRS World if you want a custom solution, and also Atkinson Electronics, but it is also easy DIY. It can take a small computer to format and send more complicated data in an email or web friendly form, but there are Linux boxes the size of thumb drives, and the software is all free and open source. If you are into it (or have a colleague that is) you can build your own using Arduino too. Basically, once you have something that can read a serial port, you can do anything with the data it gives you -- beam it via wifi, cell, satellite, what have you. DAN FINK On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Can you elaborate on this? It sounds like something I could use in other situations... What equipment is required? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, Chris. For very little money you could even monitor the relay to have it email, phone or SMS them when the grid goes out. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Chris Mason cometenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Couldn't you power a relay from the incoming utility, so it closes on loss of utility? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
It sounds like a perfect application for an Arduino. http://www.arduino.cc/ It's an open source microcontroller with easy programming and lots of interface options. For abnout $100 you could hire a programmer to configure it to do what you need. You don't say what the inverter is, but if it has a programmable contact that can be configured to indicate on backup, the the logic can be IF (Utility=0 Inverter = 1) Then Send Email Easy Peasy. Otherwise, if you want a commercial product, try this http://www.flightsystems.com/pdf/326techdetails.pdf Model 326 Power Failure Detector - Description of Operation Power interruptions at remote industrial sites and other unattended locations, such as second homes, can be potentially damaging to property. A means of warning the property owner/manager of any prolonged power outage is needed. The Model 326 Power Failure Detector meets this need by constantly monitoring the status of the power at a property, with or without a standby power system. An alarm results from either a loss of utility power or a failure of the standby power system to start and transfer the load. The alarm can be local, or remote by means of an automatic telephone dialer. On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Yeah, I realize you can use a computer. I was hoping for a more commercialized standalone device to send email or SMS with just an Ethernet or wireless connection. You said for little money. I misinterpreted that as simple. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: Jason; The relay and an indicator light or buzzer is easy -- Grainger or Radio Shack parts. There are multitudes of monitors for anything -- voltage, current, temperature, water level, switch state, specific gravity (!) that have live serial port output possibly in addition to memory card logging. Once you have data on serial out, it's easy to network it anywhere, including emails and even live web page widgets. Talk to Jim Jarvis at APRS World if you want a custom solution, and also Atkinson Electronics, but it is also easy DIY. It can take a small computer to format and send more complicated data in an email or web friendly form, but there are Linux boxes the size of thumb drives, and the software is all free and open source. If you are into it (or have a colleague that is) you can build your own using Arduino too. Basically, once you have something that can read a serial port, you can do anything with the data it gives you -- beam it via wifi, cell, satellite, what have you. DAN FINK On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Can you elaborate on this? It sounds like something I could use in other situations... What equipment is required? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, Chris. For very little money you could even monitor the relay to have it email, phone or SMS them when the grid goes out. -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Chris Mason cometenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Couldn't you power a relay from the incoming utility, so it closes on loss of utility? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] 12V loads
Hello, I've been looking at a lot of hunting shacks, fish houses and other 12V loads setups and was wondering how people go about setting these up? What are people using for load termination, fusing? I'd like to keep all disconnects and fusing in one box. Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 12V loads
Square D QO is listed to 24V DC according to some of their literature. Matt Matthew Partymiller Solar Energy Solutions LLC (859) 312-7456 m...@solar-energy-solutions.com Hello, I've been looking at a lot of hunting shacks, fish houses and other 12V loads setups and was wondering how people go about setting these up? What are people using for load termination, fusing? I'd like to keep all disconnects and fusing in one box. Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 12V loads
We use solar combiner boxes. For instance, the first breaker is actually a 63A for the Main and then you could have load breakers for each circuit. Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® President CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Office: 512-919-4493 Cell:512-460-9825 Sent from an iPhone. On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Jesse Dahl dahlso...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I've been looking at a lot of hunting shacks, fish houses and other 12V loads setups and was wondering how people go about setting these up? What are people using for load termination, fusing? I'd like to keep all disconnects and fusing in one box. Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 12V loads
Thats what I was looking at. Cost wise, if you were to get crazy with panelboards and stuff the price just skyrockets. Thanks eh! Jesse Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Maverick Brown [Maverick Solar] maver...@mavericksolar.com wrote: We use solar combiner boxes. For instance, the first breaker is actually a 63A for the Main and then you could have load breakers for each circuit. Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® President CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Office: 512-919-4493 Cell:512-460-9825 Sent from an iPhone. On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Jesse Dahl dahlso...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I've been looking at a lot of hunting shacks, fish houses and other 12V loads setups and was wondering how people go about setting these up? What are people using for load termination, fusing? I'd like to keep all disconnects and fusing in one box. Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
i have always used the good old e-meter/link 10. i manually program the charge efficiency at 99% (why won't the manufactures allow a 100% setting?). the problem is that 1% error... since the meter treats charge different than discharge. the old e-meters seemed to handle this fine... but the newer ones (before they discontinued them) had a problem. with the shunt shorted (see time delay relay notes below), the meter read .4 amps of current flow, so obviously an accumulating error happens with these. i am about to replace one of these defective link 10's with a trace tm-500, which another local installer said works ok in this application (when manually set to 99% charge efficiency). i will report back to the list about the status of this fix. but, even if it does work, as the grid reliability decreases in the coming years... when the grid is down, the meter will incorrectly report the battery soc, since it is obviously not at 99%. i had considered a rube-goldberg system where the meter would left programmed in the default setting to automatically calculate charge efficiency and a time delay relay would short out the shunt when the grid was up to keep the meter reading at 100%. if the tm-500 doesn't work, i will try this. either way, i will report back to the group as i know this is a vexing problem for many people who do gtwbb systems. as to the grid outage alarm, with the inverter out at the service disconnect, did you run a long, large gauge, twisted pair cable to the amp-hour meter in the house? do you have 2 extra conductors for an alarm? if not, how about an x-10 (or similar) remote switch at the grid disconnect to 'talk' to a light or alarm in the house? todd Incidentally, your comment about an amp-hour meter brings another question: a traditional amp-hour meter, like a TriMetric 2020,doesn't work well in GTWB situations, as the charged parameters are seldom met absent a grid outage, and thus the charge efficiency error can accumulate over time and lead to false readings. What do you use, Todd, or if you use a traditional amp-hour meter, how do you program it to fool it into maintaining accuracy in a system that always sits in float? Allan Allan Sindelar [mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com] al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 [http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/] www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/9/2012 10:02 AM, [mailto:toddc...@finestplanet.com] toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: 99% of the grid-ties i do incorporate battery backup. when i am wiring a system into a house, i usually put the amp hour meter in the kitchen and only wire essential back up loads (water pump, communication, refrigeration basic lighting) into the system. this design alerts the customer of when the grid is down and they need to go into 'conserve mode', and also eliminates power robbing waste. i am not sure why your customer would want to have the whole house backed up? i try to leave acouple of non essential, but noticeable circuits as 'grid only'. if the house is already wired and changing a circuit is not possible, you will need to somehow access a grid only circuit (the ac input to the inverter) and put some kind of alarm on it. hardware stores sell battery powered lights that come on when the power is off. one of these could be modified with a sonalert (or other audible alarm) which would come on to notify the customer to change their behavior. todd On Thursday, August 9, 2012 8:18am, Allan Sindelar [mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com] al...@positiveenergysolar.com said: Wrenches, For a grid-tied-with-backup system that is still in the design stage, we have a customer request for a signal to let them know when an outage occurs and they are running on backup power, so that they may turn off unnecessary loads and go into backup consciousness. The problem is that the entire home would be on backup, with the GTWB system tied into a meter and main disconnect location away from the home, rather than the more typical main panel/subpanel approach at the home. Any relay-based alarm based on loss of grid AC would not likely trigger, as the switchover is too quick. Any ideas for simple solutions, please? Allan -- Allan Sindelar [mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com] al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
Re: [RE-wrenches] 12V loads
Actually if you want to really keep the price down, you can use a 12 v ATC fuse block from Del City wire. I only use it for RVs, autos, and temporary structures (like fish houses). 12 vdc has its place in Micro systems, but it quickly becomes ridiculous, as soon as you want more than a couple of LED lights and a radio. My limit is probably at about 150 watts of array and a pair of golf cart batteries. Beware of regular wall switches too, they're not DC rated. SCI used to have a great little controller for these systems, but its gone. I believe Midnite Solar has a replacement that's worth a look, and their battery meter is also good for the 12 V crowd. Ray Walters On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:57 PM, Jesse Dahl wrote: Thats what I was looking at. Cost wise, if you were to get crazy with panelboards and stuff the price just skyrockets. Thanks eh! Jesse Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Maverick Brown [Maverick Solar] maver...@mavericksolar.com wrote: We use solar combiner boxes. For instance, the first breaker is actually a 63A for the Main and then you could have load breakers for each circuit. Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® President CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Office: 512-919-4493 Cell:512-460-9825 Sent from an iPhone. On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Jesse Dahl dahlso...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I've been looking at a lot of hunting shacks, fish houses and other 12V loads setups and was wondering how people go about setting these up? What are people using for load termination, fusing? I'd like to keep all disconnects and fusing in one box. Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 12V loads
I've seen lots of folks use old Trace DC Boxes. I try to set up some kind of low battery disco if it's just DC.Dan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44 Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 12V loads From: Jesse Dahl dahlso...@gmail.com Date: Thu, August 09, 2012 6:57 pm To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Thats what I was looking at. Cost wise, if you were to get crazy with panelboards and stuff the price just skyrockets. Thanks eh! Jesse Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:40 PM, "Maverick Brown [Maverick Solar]" maver...@mavericksolar.com wrote: We use solar combiner boxes. For instance, the first breaker is actually a 63A for the "Main" and then you could have load breakers for each circuit. Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® President CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Office: 512-919-4493 Cell:512-460-9825 Sent from an iPhone. On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Jesse Dahl dahlso...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I've been looking at a lot of hunting shacks, fish houses and other 12V loads setups and was wondering how people go about setting these up? What are people using for load termination, fusing? I'd like to keep all disconnects and fusing in one "box". Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Are they still in Business? AAA solar
Anyone know if AAA (semco) is still operating? Tried to order an Air Collector system and all the numbers are down or disconnected Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Sent via BlackBerry. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar/Small Wind in Columbia
Ryan We have three offices in Panama and regularly sell into Columbia, as a distributor we don't do installs. Kind regards Tom Duffy Systems Design Engineer [Description: cid:133065820@02122011-32D5] t...@thesolar.bizmailto:t...@thesolar.biz USA Toll Free 888-503-6772 Bocas del Toro, Panama 6126-1253 Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:55 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar/Small Wind in Columbia Wrenches, Have any of you installed in Columbia? I've been talking with some friends outside of Bogota, Columbia about solar and wind, and now I am curious. If any of you have experience with renewables there it would be great to hear from you. Topics - On and off grid systems, Interconnection, permitting, exporting, code, electric rates, licensing, wind maps, etc. Thanks, Ryan Harkins NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer / Project Manager Synergy Renewable Systems, LLC PO Box 58 Stoughton, WI 53589 PH: 608-712-7862 ryan.hark...@energycraft.commailto:ryan.hark...@energycraft.com www.energycraft.comhttp://www.energycraft.com inline: image001.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Are they still in Business? AAA solar
They're not. After 35? years, retirement reared its head. Chuck Marken, the thermal editor for Home Power, was one of the founding principals. I'm not sure what he would suggest re how to find what you're looking for. You might email him via HP. And if there is a successor to Semco, please let the list know. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/9/2012 6:12 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez- All Solar Inc. wrote: Anyone know if AAA (semco) is still operating? Tried to order an Air Collector system and all the numbers are down or disconnected Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Sent via BlackBerry. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
