Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Darryl Thayer]

I see now
Larry and Alex explained one of my problems was low capacty early shut
down. I had the cc set to absorb volts  below 100% and over two years the
battery seemed to lose capacity.  Voc 80 volts solar array The cc absorb 55
volts i was not charging full. The BMS. would never top balance.  After i
removed the battery and put on my power supply at 59 volts for a couple of
days top balance occurred  i have returned battery to service and works
fine.
Alex's point about cells not being balanced.
Larry's point my system never disconnected but ramped down as i approached
absorb volts therefor no BMS disconnection and no voltage spikes.

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 12:15 PM Alex MeVay  Hi All,
>
> As Larry said, when a lithium BMS disconnects, this causes a "load
> dump" just like disconnecting a lead-acid battery.  Well-designed
> chargers (solar or otherwise) should be able to handle this without
> damage, though a failing or poorly-designed lithium battery may cause
> this to happen many orders of magnitude more frequently than the
> once-in-a-blue-moon that may occur with Pb systems.  I'd like to share
> some pitfalls we learned back when we made lithium batteries in case
> they are helpful to Dan in making his decision about the Li bank.
>
> 1. Load dump can mean different things to different chargers.  Solar
> MPPTs, (boost MPPTs excluded) won't put out more than the solar Voc.
> For mobile installations that may include alternator charging, a
> "dumped" 12 or 24V alternator may put out 100V plus before the
> alternator has a chance to respond and the field current can decay.
> Mobile systems should have a mechanism to cut the field current before
> popping the BMS relay.
>
> 2. Most chargers are not power supplies, and are designed to have a
> battery attached as the proverbial 900lb gorilla to stabilize the
> output voltage and buffer load transients.  BMSs should be configured
> never to allow chargers and loads to be directly connected without a
> battery present.  With no battery, load dump transients can destroy
> sensitive loads, and brownouts or bus voltage instability is likely.
> Best case is if the BMS has separate controls for charge and load
> relays, but even with one control output, separate relays for chargers
> and loads can prevent many problems.
>
> 3. Related to #2, most modern MPPTs use synchronous rectification in
> their power stage.  This means that, fundamentally, they can pump
> power into the array from the battery just as well as in the "normal"
> direction.  It's only the controls that keep power flowing the correct
> direction.  Let's say a one-relay 24V Li BMS disconnects, leaving
> chargers and loads connected.  Say things brown out to 10V on the bus,
> with the MPPT doing its best to keep things powered, and running from
> 75Vmp on the array.  BMS decides it's time to reconnect, relay closes,
> bus voltage jumps back up to 26V and instantaneously, the MPPT power
> stage is still set for a 7.5:1 ratio, so power will get pumped back
> into the array, trying to push it up to 26V*7.5=195V, and if the MPPTs
> control loop or protection circuits can't respond fast enough, pop go
> the MOSFETs (depending on input rating of the MPPT).  Separate relays
> for chargers and loads should prevent this, as most MPPTs will either
> shut down or go to absorption when the battery is disconnected,
> preventing the high buck ratios and problems on BMS reconnect.
>
> 4. As a side note, we get a fair number of tech support calls from Li
> battery users complaining of over-voltage LED indications, etc. from
> our MPPTs.  Almost invariably, this turns out to be a "don't shoot the
> messenger" situation, where the lithium battery was never balanced at
> the factory (etc.), and is disconnecting, and our controllers are
> notifying the user of the problem.  Usually a little customer
> education (and patience during cell balancing) solves the problem.
>
> Thank you as always, Wrenches, for all the knowledge you share on this
> list.
>
> Alex MeVay
>
> Blue Sky Energy * http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com
> Genasun * http://www.genasun.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Got 113 attached screen. What is different or what should I look for
please?  --Dave

On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 10:15:40 -0800, Alex MeVay 
wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> As Larry said, when a lithium BMS disconnects, this causes a "load
> dump" just like disconnecting a lead-acid battery.  Well-designed
> chargers (solar or otherwise) should be able to handle this without
> damage, though a failing or poorly-designed lithium battery may cause
> this to happen many orders of magnitude more frequently than the
> once-in-a-blue-moon that may occur with Pb systems.  I'd like to share
> some pitfalls we learned back when we made lithium batteries in case
> they are helpful to Dan in making his decision about the Li bank.
> 
> 1. Load dump can mean different things to different chargers.  Solar
> MPPTs, (boost MPPTs excluded) won't put out more than the solar Voc.
> For mobile installations that may include alternator charging, a
> "dumped" 12 or 24V alternator may put out 100V plus before the
> alternator has a chance to respond and the field current can decay.
> Mobile systems should have a mechanism to cut the field current before
> popping the BMS relay.
> 
> 2. Most chargers are not power supplies, and are designed to have a
> battery attached as the proverbial 900lb gorilla to stabilize the
> output voltage and buffer load transients.  BMSs should be configured
> never to allow chargers and loads to be directly connected without a
> battery present.  With no battery, load dump transients can destroy
> sensitive loads, and brownouts or bus voltage instability is likely.
> Best case is if the BMS has separate controls for charge and load
> relays, but even with one control output, separate relays for chargers
> and loads can prevent many problems.
> 
> 3. Related to #2, most modern MPPTs use synchronous rectification in
> their power stage.  This means that, fundamentally, they can pump
> power into the array from the battery just as well as in the "normal"
> direction.  It's only the controls that keep power flowing the correct
> direction.  Let's say a one-relay 24V Li BMS disconnects, leaving
> chargers and loads connected.  Say things brown out to 10V on the bus,
> with the MPPT doing its best to keep things powered, and running from
> 75Vmp on the array.  BMS decides it's time to reconnect, relay closes,
> bus voltage jumps back up to 26V and instantaneously, the MPPT power
> stage is still set for a 7.5:1 ratio, so power will get pumped back
> into the array, trying to push it up to 26V*7.5=195V, and if the MPPTs
> control loop or protection circuits can't respond fast enough, pop go
> the MOSFETs (depending on input rating of the MPPT).  Separate relays
> for chargers and loads should prevent this, as most MPPTs will either
> shut down or go to absorption when the battery is disconnected,
> preventing the high buck ratios and problems on BMS reconnect.
> 
> 4. As a side note, we get a fair number of tech support calls from Li
> battery users complaining of over-voltage LED indications, etc. from
> our MPPTs.  Almost invariably, this turns out to be a "don't shoot the
> messenger" situation, where the lithium battery was never balanced at
> the factory (etc.), and is disconnecting, and our controllers are
> notifying the user of the problem.  Usually a little customer
> education (and patience during cell balancing) solves the problem.
> 
> Thank you as always, Wrenches, for all the knowledge you share on this
> list.
> 
> Alex MeVay
> 
> Blue Sky Energy * http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com
> Genasun * http://www.genasun.com
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-- 
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"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

We did the LG RESU 48v field testing here for Schneider. Never had any
problems with this and both of their cc's. Still running fine 2 years
later. 

What I found was in the effort to get to 100% Soc there would be
micro cycles of the battery. By staying below 100% there was not any more
issue with this. I keep the charge voltage just slightly lower by a few
tenths of a volt and get a 97% Soc. Looks just like my old LA bank on a
voltage graph. Never had any problems with lights out on this system, NEVER
! 

I do once every 3 months or so raise the voltage to 100% Soc to let the
BMS balance if it wants to. I sure wish LG would sell the 13.5 KWH in North
America. So Sad! 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 11:40:09 -0600, Darryl Thayer 
wrote:  Hello Larry is always a good source. I have used Morningstar MPPT
60 s on my few LiFe po4 systems 4 years now, no controller problems or
equipment problems yet. I imagine when the BMS disconnects battery voltage
high, controller output goes high for a short period i will put an Egauge
on the output to messure voltage on one system to see if i catch an event.
Very good point 
  On Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 11:03 AM Starlight Solar Power
Systems 

Links:
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[2]
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3] mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com
[4]
mailto:d...@foxfire-energy.com
[5] http://www.foxfire-energy.com/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Alex MeVay]

Hi All,

As Larry said, when a lithium BMS disconnects, this causes a "load
dump" just like disconnecting a lead-acid battery.  Well-designed
chargers (solar or otherwise) should be able to handle this without
damage, though a failing or poorly-designed lithium battery may cause
this to happen many orders of magnitude more frequently than the
once-in-a-blue-moon that may occur with Pb systems.  I'd like to share
some pitfalls we learned back when we made lithium batteries in case
they are helpful to Dan in making his decision about the Li bank.

1. Load dump can mean different things to different chargers.  Solar
MPPTs, (boost MPPTs excluded) won't put out more than the solar Voc.
For mobile installations that may include alternator charging, a
"dumped" 12 or 24V alternator may put out 100V plus before the
alternator has a chance to respond and the field current can decay.
Mobile systems should have a mechanism to cut the field current before
popping the BMS relay.

2. Most chargers are not power supplies, and are designed to have a
battery attached as the proverbial 900lb gorilla to stabilize the
output voltage and buffer load transients.  BMSs should be configured
never to allow chargers and loads to be directly connected without a
battery present.  With no battery, load dump transients can destroy
sensitive loads, and brownouts or bus voltage instability is likely.
Best case is if the BMS has separate controls for charge and load
relays, but even with one control output, separate relays for chargers
and loads can prevent many problems.

3. Related to #2, most modern MPPTs use synchronous rectification in
their power stage.  This means that, fundamentally, they can pump
power into the array from the battery just as well as in the "normal"
direction.  It's only the controls that keep power flowing the correct
direction.  Let's say a one-relay 24V Li BMS disconnects, leaving
chargers and loads connected.  Say things brown out to 10V on the bus,
with the MPPT doing its best to keep things powered, and running from
75Vmp on the array.  BMS decides it's time to reconnect, relay closes,
bus voltage jumps back up to 26V and instantaneously, the MPPT power
stage is still set for a 7.5:1 ratio, so power will get pumped back
into the array, trying to push it up to 26V*7.5=195V, and if the MPPTs
control loop or protection circuits can't respond fast enough, pop go
the MOSFETs (depending on input rating of the MPPT).  Separate relays
for chargers and loads should prevent this, as most MPPTs will either
shut down or go to absorption when the battery is disconnected,
preventing the high buck ratios and problems on BMS reconnect.

4. As a side note, we get a fair number of tech support calls from Li
battery users complaining of over-voltage LED indications, etc. from
our MPPTs.  Almost invariably, this turns out to be a "don't shoot the
messenger" situation, where the lithium battery was never balanced at
the factory (etc.), and is disconnecting, and our controllers are
notifying the user of the problem.  Usually a little customer
education (and patience during cell balancing) solves the problem.

Thank you as always, Wrenches, for all the knowledge you share on this list.

Alex MeVay

Blue Sky Energy * http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com
Genasun * http://www.genasun.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Darryl Thayer]

Hello Larry is always a good source. I have used Morningstar MPPT 60 s on
my few LiFe po4 systems 4 years now, no controller problems or equipment
problems yet.  I imagine when the BMS disconnects battery voltage high,
controller output goes high for a short period i will put an Egauge on the
output to messure voltage on one system to see if i catch an event.   Very
good point

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 11:03 AM Starlight Solar Power Systems <
la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:

> There was some off board chatter about this subject but I think it is
> useful to some to copy my comments on the board.
>
> If a Li battery EMS or BMS detects a fault condition, it can cause an open
> circuit to the battery. As the battery owner gets familiar with their new
> energy storage system, this will likely happen. If high current is flowing,
> connected devices need to be able to handle that condition without harm.
>
> Morningstar notified us (about 4 year ago) that this event could cause
> damage to their controller. That’s puzzling to me because OCV also happens
> if your battery circuit protection opens.
>
> We mostly sell Midnite and Blue Sky Energy controllers with some Outback
> in the mix. No failures have been reported to us.
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 7, 2019, at 7:46 AM, d...@foxfire-energy.com
>  wrote:
>
> I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set of LiFePO4
> batteries on an older OB system.. The customer complained the system would
> go dark within a few min. of the batt indicator light going yellow.. From
> what I've gathered so far the BMS of the batteries is shutting down.. The
> distributor sent out one of their techs, but it looks like they missed a
> few adjustments.. The biggie is their CC (OB FM60) went into snooze mode
> within a day of being connected to these guys, and now OB tells me the CC
> lost it's FETs and that's pretty common with NiFePO4 BMS.. also when the
> tech came out to commission the bank, one of the terminals on a battery
> melted and another distorted.. the customer has a few more days to accept
> the bank, I'm thinking send them back.. Comments?
>
>
> Dan Brown
> Foxfire Energy Corp.
> Renewable Energy Systems
> (802)-483-2564
> www.Foxfire-Energy.com 
> __
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

There was some off board chatter about this subject but I think it is useful to 
some to copy my comments on the board.

If a Li battery EMS or BMS detects a fault condition, it can cause an open 
circuit to the battery. As the battery owner gets familiar with their new 
energy storage system, this will likely happen. If high current is flowing, 
connected devices need to be able to handle that condition without harm.

Morningstar notified us (about 4 year ago) that this event could cause damage 
to their controller. That’s puzzling to me because OCV also happens if your 
battery circuit protection opens.

We mostly sell Midnite and Blue Sky Energy controllers with some Outback in the 
mix. No failures have been reported to us.  

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems





On Jan 7, 2019, at 7:46 AM, d...@foxfire-energy.com wrote:

I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set of LiFePO4 batteries 
on an older OB system.. The customer complained the system would go dark within 
a few min. of the batt indicator light going yellow.. From what I've gathered 
so far the BMS of the batteries is shutting down.. The distributor sent out one 
of their techs, but it looks like they missed a few adjustments.. The biggie is 
their CC (OB FM60) went into snooze mode within a day of being connected to 
these guys, and now OB tells me the CC lost it's FETs and that's pretty common 
with NiFePO4 BMS.. also when the tech came out to commission the bank, one of 
the terminals on a battery melted and another distorted.. the customer has a 
few more days to accept the bank, I'm thinking send them back.. Comments?


Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS]

[dan]

oopsi daisyDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.com


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: OffList Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS
From: "b...@midnitesolar.com" <b...@midnitesolar.com>
Date: Mon, January 07, 2019 4:09 pm
To: d...@foxfire-energy.com

   Snoozing of course means that there is not enough PV input power to do any useful charging and to wait another 5 minutes and try again.  That's what I had it doing when it was the MX60 anyway.  So, if the FETs blew, seeing snoozing for a while could make sense. You didn't CC the others, Dan, if you had meant to. Thanks ! boB  On 1/7/2019 1:06 PM, d...@foxfire-energy.com wrote: An update.. The tech the distributor sent out did miss some inverter adjustments (LBCO and such), but got all the high side settings and pulled the temp sensor.. the zorched battery terminals were from someone the Homo hired to install/ commission the batteries.. Also discovered that although equipment ground and neutral on the ac side was grounded, it does not appear the DC Neg. buss was grounded.. They are using an older OB green steel mounting setup.. As for OB Tech. I'm thinking most of them have forgotten more than I'll ever know.. But as we all know, some are not above making things up.. But the Homo tells me one of the FM60s did go into snooze mode (and never came out) within a day from the time the batteries were installed.. and OB tech told us that was not uncommon.Kinda looks like it's turning into a huge pissing match..   Thanks for the input everyone   db   Dan Brown Foxfire Energy Corp. Renewable Energy Systems (802)-483-2564 www.Foxfire-Energy.com Original Message  Subject: OffList Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS From: "b...@midnitesolar.com" <b...@midnitesolar.com> Date: Mon, January 07, 2019 3:39 pm To: Howie Michaelson <howie.michael...@gmail.com>, d...@foxfire-energy.com, Starlight Solar Power Systems <la...@starlightsolar.com>, jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com>Happy new year guys !   This is interesting...  Makes no sense that a LiFe BMS would harm a charge controller like the FM60 (or other MPPT CC) UNLESS it maybe all of a sudden SHORTED the output of the CC while it would putting out high power at high PV input voltage...  I wonder why OB says this is common ?  I know they didn't say it was "common" exactly but that's what I get out of it.   Thanks, boB  On 1/7/2019 11:50 AM, Howie Michaelson wrote:   Good to know Larry. I'm just trying to clarify what Dan is setting and what outback is claiming. ThanksOn Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 2:43 PM Starlight Solar Power Systems <la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:   Howie,   We have many hundreds of Li battery systems sold and installed. Never had any failure of PV controllers including Outback due to charging Li-ion.  Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems   On Jan 7, 2019, at 11:23 AM, Howie Michaelson <howie.michael...@gmail.com> wrote: Hey Dan, Are you saying that OB is claiming that NiFePO4 batteries are smoking their charge controllers? Do they say why?  Is this also true of LiFePO4 batteries?  If you wouldn't mind mentioning which battery manufacture you are dealing with? Thanks, Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:06 AM <d...@foxfire-energy.com> wrote:I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set of LiFePO4 batteries on an older OB system.. The customer complained the system would go dark within a few min. of the batt indicator light going yellow.. From what I've gathered so far the BMS of the batteries is shutting down.. The distributor sent out one of their techs, but it looks like they missed a few adjustments.. The biggie is their CC (OB FM60) went into snooze mode within a day of being connected to these guys, and now OB tells me the CC lost it's FETs and that's pretty common with NiFePO4 BMS.. also when the tech came out to commission the bank, one of the terminals on a battery melted and another distorted.. the customer has a few more days to accept the bank, I'm thinking send them back.. Comments? Dan Brown Foxfire Energy Corp. Renewable Energy Systems (802)-483-2564   ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance  List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org  Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org  List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html  List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm  Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org   ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance  List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org  Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wr

Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Howie Michaelson]

Good to know Larry. I'm just trying to clarify what Dan is setting and what
outback is claiming.
Thanks

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 2:43 PM Starlight Solar Power Systems <
la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:

> Howie,
>
> We have many hundreds of Li battery systems sold and installed. Never had
> any failure of PV controllers including Outback due to charging Li-ion.
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 7, 2019, at 11:23 AM, Howie Michaelson 
> wrote:
>
> Hey Dan,
> Are you saying that OB is claiming that NiFePO4 batteries are smoking
> their charge controllers? Do they say why?  Is this also true of LiFePO4
> batteries?  If you wouldn't mind mentioning which battery manufacture you
> are dealing with?
> Thanks,
> Howie Michaelson
> Sun Catcher
>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:06 AM  wrote:
>
>> I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set of LiFePO4
>> batteries on an older OB system.. The customer complained the system would
>> go dark within a few min. of the batt indicator light going yellow.. From
>> what I've gathered so far the BMS of the batteries is shutting down.. The
>> distributor sent out one of their techs, but it looks like they missed a
>> few adjustments.. The biggie is their CC (OB FM60) went into snooze mode
>> within a day of being connected to these guys, and now OB tells me the CC
>> lost it's FETs and that's pretty common with NiFePO4 BMS.. also when the
>> tech came out to commission the bank, one of the terminals on a battery
>> melted and another distorted.. the customer has a few more days to accept
>> the bank, I'm thinking send them back.. Comments?
>>
>>
>> Dan Brown
>> Foxfire Energy Corp.
>> Renewable Energy Systems
>> (802)-483-2564
>>
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Howie,

We have many hundreds of Li battery systems sold and installed. Never had any 
failure of PV controllers including Outback due to charging Li-ion.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Jan 7, 2019, at 11:23 AM, Howie Michaelson  
wrote:

Hey Dan,
Are you saying that OB is claiming that NiFePO4 batteries are smoking their 
charge controllers? Do they say why?  Is this also true of LiFePO4 batteries?  
If you wouldn't mind mentioning which battery manufacture you are dealing with?
Thanks,
Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:06 AM mailto:d...@foxfire-energy.com>> wrote:
I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set of LiFePO4 batteries 
on an older OB system.. The customer complained the system would go dark within 
a few min. of the batt indicator light going yellow.. From what I've gathered 
so far the BMS of the batteries is shutting down.. The distributor sent out one 
of their techs, but it looks like they missed a few adjustments.. The biggie is 
their CC (OB FM60) went into snooze mode within a day of being connected to 
these guys, and now OB tells me the CC lost it's FETs and that's pretty common 
with NiFePO4 BMS.. also when the tech came out to commission the bank, one of 
the terminals on a battery melted and another distorted.. the customer has a 
few more days to accept the bank, I'm thinking send them back.. Comments?


Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564

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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[dan]

48V SystemBattery brand is Kilovault 3600 HLX6k of solar on two 7 yr old FM60(one CC flamed out, the other is fine)Inverter is 2007, Mate is pre revision 4Dan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.com


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS
From: jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, January 07, 2019 12:57 pm
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>

HI Dan,I’d like to know more about the system:battery brandsize of the PVvoltagejaypeltz powerOn Jan 7, 2019, at 6:46 AM, <d...@foxfire-energy.com> <d...@foxfire-energy.com> wrote:I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set of LiFePO4 batteries on an older OB system.. The customer complained the system would go dark within a few min. of the batt indicator light going yellow.. From what I've gathered so far the BMS of the batteries is shutting down.. The distributor sent out one of their techs, but it looks like they missed a few adjustments.. The biggie is their CC (OB FM60) went into snooze mode within a day of being connected to these guys, and now OB tells me the CC lost it's FETs and that's pretty common with NiFePO4 BMS.. also when the tech came out to commission the bank, one of the terminals on a battery melted and another distorted.. the customer has a few more days to accept the bank, I'm thinking send them back.. Comments?Dan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.com ___List sponsored by Redwood AllianceList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.htmlList rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[dan]

Sorry, These are LiFePO4.. NiFe was last week.. my BadDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.com


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS
From: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <offgridso...@sti.net>
Date: Mon, January 07, 2019 10:06 am
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>

You state that the battery is a LiFe and Outback said it is a Nife bms. Can you clarify please? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060 On Mon, 07 Jan 2019 07:46:39 -0700, <d...@foxfire-energy.com> wrote:  I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set of LiFePO4 batteries on an older OB system.. The customer complained the system would go dark within a few min. of the batt indicator light going yellow.. From what I've gathered so far the BMS of the batteries is shutting down.. The distributor sent out one of their techs, but it looks like they missed a few adjustments.. The biggie is their CC (OB FM60) went into snooze mode within a day of being connected to these guys, and now OB tells me the CC lost it's FETs and that's pretty common with NiFePO4 BMS.. also when the tech came out to commission the bank, one of the terminals on a battery melted and another distorted.. the customer has a few more days to accept the bank, I'm thinking send them back.. Comments?   Dan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.com  --      ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Howie Michaelson]

Hey Dan,
Are you saying that OB is claiming that NiFePO4 batteries are smoking their
charge controllers? Do they say why?  Is this also true of LiFePO4
batteries?  If you wouldn't mind mentioning which battery manufacture you
are dealing with?
Thanks,
Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:06 AM  wrote:

> I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set of LiFePO4
> batteries on an older OB system.. The customer complained the system would
> go dark within a few min. of the batt indicator light going yellow.. From
> what I've gathered so far the BMS of the batteries is shutting down.. The
> distributor sent out one of their techs, but it looks like they missed a
> few adjustments.. The biggie is their CC (OB FM60) went into snooze mode
> within a day of being connected to these guys, and now OB tells me the CC
> lost it's FETs and that's pretty common with NiFePO4 BMS.. also when the
> tech came out to commission the bank, one of the terminals on a battery
> melted and another distorted.. the customer has a few more days to accept
> the bank, I'm thinking send them back.. Comments?
>
>
> Dan Brown
> Foxfire Energy Corp.
> Renewable Energy Systems
> (802)-483-2564
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[jay]

HI Dan,

I’d like to know more about the system:

battery brand
size of the PV
voltage
jay

peltz power

> On Jan 7, 2019, at 6:46 AM,  
>  wrote:
> 
> I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set of LiFePO4 
> batteries on an older OB system.. The customer complained the system would go 
> dark within a few min. of the batt indicator light going yellow.. From what 
> I've gathered so far the BMS of the batteries is shutting down.. The 
> distributor sent out one of their techs, but it looks like they missed a few 
> adjustments.. The biggie is their CC (OB FM60) went into snooze mode within a 
> day of being connected to these guys, and now OB tells me the CC lost it's 
> FETs and that's pretty common with NiFePO4 BMS.. also when the tech came out 
> to commission the bank, one of the terminals on a battery melted and another 
> distorted.. the customer has a few more days to accept the bank, I'm thinking 
> send them back.. Comments?
> 
> 
> Dan Brown
> Foxfire Energy Corp.
> Renewable Energy Systems
> (802)-483-2564
> www.Foxfire-Energy.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 vs BOS

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

You state that the battery is a LiFe and Outback said it is a Nife bms.
Can you clarify please? 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where
powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Mon, 07 Jan 2019 07:46:39
-0700,  wrote:  I've been asked to trouble shoot a problem with a new set
of LiFePO4 batteries on an older OB system.. The customer complained the
system would go dark within a few min. of the batt indicator light going
yellow.. From what I've gathered so far the BMS of the batteries is
shutting down.. The distributor sent out one of their techs, but it looks
like they missed a few adjustments.. The biggie is their CC (OB FM60) went
into snooze mode within a day of being connected to these guys, and now OB
tells me the CC lost it's FETs and that's pretty common with NiFePO4 BMS..
also when the tech came out to commission the bank, one of the terminals on
a battery melted and another distorted.. the customer has a few more days
to accept the bank, I'm thinking send them back.. Comments?   
Dan
Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy
Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com [3]  -- 




Links:
--
[1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2]
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3] http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com
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