Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
On May 29, 2007, at 11:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 5/28/2007 12:27, you wrote: Also, as you pointed out, D-Star digital voice is a narrowband signal occupying only about 6Khz vs. the 25Khz or so that amateur repeaters have often required to date. It is difficult to do a comparison between a While the typical 50 dB analog NBFM (5 kHz deviation) bandwidth is ~20 kHz, the 50 dB bandwidth of DStar appears to be about 10 kHz. Here in SoCal we're proposing 10 kHz channel spacing for DStar, digital P25 any other very narrow band digital voice, or VNBDV, systems. Discussion here locally is leaning toward 12.5 KHz spacing for what's really needed for P25 Phase I systems, not 10 KHz. The discussion was also backed up with tests of real-world BER (bit-error rate) at closer and closer spacings (overlapping) by a local Amateur with access to the appropriate P25 test equipment. In lab testing, 10 KHz spacing and it's effect on P25 BER is not real pretty. (Good luck finding test equipment that supports D-Star. Ever.) Another challenge on the P25 front is that many people will probably desire initially to deploy it using Quantars or other similar repeaters that can operate in mixed conventional analog, and conventional digital modes -- mixed mode operation. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor oscillator mod question
No one has answered his original question, that is: What benefit does he get by wiring the exciter to be ON all the time? I think he's discovered one of the non-benefits and is trying to figure out if the leakage he's experiencing is worth the effort. Even a well-shielded and filtered repeater station will leak something. Personally, I think I'd only keep just the oscillator running all the time, not the entire exciter. The only reason I can think of doing this is if the oscillator is slow to come up to frequency when the station is keyed. I would expect it to take only milliseconds for stability to occur, so there really shouldn't be any noticeable benefit. The exciter is putting out a whole lot more RF power than the oscillator. Perhaps this is really what he's done, or should do. Bob M. == --- Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jordan, Assuming your Micor station has a unified chassis, was it always a repeater, or was it converted to repeater use from a base station? Repeater stations have a great deal of extra filtering in the interconnect boards that connect the RX and TX shelves to the backplane. The repeater chassis also is equipped with extra shield plates that cover the RX and TX shelves, which plates should be secured with all screws in place. The purpose of the extra filtering and shielding is to prevent (or greatly attenuate) any direct radiation from the exciter oscillator or the RX injection oscillator. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of twoway_tech Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:15 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor oscillator mod question I just modified my micor UHF for the exciter to be on all of the time. I am not for sure that I really like this mod. The oscillator signal seems to carry pretty far. Can someone tell me exactly what is gained by wiring the exciter to be on all of the time. Is it just for faster transmit response time? Thanks I'm sure there will be more questions to come! Jordan, K9NZF Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by Green Rating at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor oscillator mod question
The exciter should NEVER be run full time. A Micor exciter will develop 400 milliwatts, that's 0.4 watts and that much loose RF running around loose in the station is asking for trouble. Running the channel element full time is often done, but not a good idea, it's much better to switch the channel element on as needed. The use of the antenna switch transistor on the station control module as shown on repeater builder is an excellant idea. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:41 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor oscillator mod question No one has answered his original question, that is: What benefit does he get by wiring the exciter to be ON all the time? I think he's discovered one of the non-benefits and is trying to figure out if the leakage he's experiencing is worth the effort. Even a well-shielded and filtered repeater station will leak something. Personally, I think I'd only keep just the oscillator running all the time, not the entire exciter. The only reason I can think of doing this is if the oscillator is slow to come up to frequency when the station is keyed. I would expect it to take only milliseconds for stability to occur, so there really shouldn't be any noticeable benefit. The exciter is putting out a whole lot more RF power than the oscillator. Perhaps this is really what he's done, or should do. Bob M. == --- Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jordan, Assuming your Micor station has a unified chassis, was it always a repeater, or was it converted to repeater use from a base station? Repeater stations have a great deal of extra filtering in the interconnect boards that connect the RX and TX shelves to the backplane. The repeater chassis also is equipped with extra shield plates that cover the RX and TX shelves, which plates should be secured with all screws in place. The purpose of the extra filtering and shielding is to prevent (or greatly attenuate) any direct radiation from the exciter oscillator or the RX injection oscillator. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of twoway_tech Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:15 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor oscillator mod question I just modified my micor UHF for the exciter to be on all of the time. I am not for sure that I really like this mod. The oscillator signal seems to carry pretty far. Can someone tell me exactly what is gained by wiring the exciter to be on all of the time. Is it just for faster transmit response time? Thanks I'm sure there will be more questions to come! Jordan, K9NZF Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by Green Rating at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] FS: MSF5000 UHF
I have a quantity of MSF5000 UHF 403-435 Mhz 110w repeaters for sale. Some in great shape, some pretty rough. Some parts available, PA, PS Controller etc. Model is C74CXB5103BT. If interested e-mail at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I am located in the Dallas area and will have these at HAMCOM 2007 at the outside tailgate. Great ones - $500 Good ones - $425 Rough ones - $325 Thanks, Greg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking 2 repeaters
prostockcocker wrote: I have two locations that have Moto - Micor 2meter repeaters, am using a FF-800 for a controller at both sites. I have explored the idea of using a UHF repeater and link radio to hotlink the two sites, but at the time funding is a bit low. What other alternatives do I have to link the two repeaters? Thanks for the input. IRLP. See this site: http://www.irlp.net. FWIW, two of us faced the same decision and, even though we have the necessary radios and duplexers to do a full duplex link, decided to use IRLP instead. Use an old computer - software is free. -- 73, Larry, W1HJF rapp at lmr dot com
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola GM300 Problem
Did the radio receive (ie, heard thru the speaker) before it was reprogrammed?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor oscillator mod question
So,is there any point to leaving the oscillator on all the time? jordan --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: twoway_tech wrote: I just modified my micor UHF for the exciter to be on all of the time. I am not for sure that I really like this mod. The oscillator signal seems to carry pretty far. Can someone tell me exactly what is gained by wiring the exciter to be on all of the time. Is it just for faster transmit response time? Thanks I'm sure there will be more questions to come! Station? We use the (unused) antenna switch logic (on the SCM) to control the channel element ground. Works great, less filling... Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Programming Software for Amateur Use available online?
Jack, it should be there waiting for you now. Dave N0TRQ -- Every electronic device is manufactured with smoke stored deep inside... only a true genius can find a way to set it free. On 5/29/07, Jack Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, I wasn't able to google 'radioprogramming2' with any success. Could you send a copy of the MVS software to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, Jack - N7OO --
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
I went to the D-star site and looked for dealers for ham radio, all I got were commercial radio shops here in Cheyenne. Do they sell the D-star for the commercial line as well? Thanks Dakota Summerhawk -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Coy Hilton Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 6:42 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo It would seem that I left out analog in none of the D-STAR repeaters that I know of (ICOM) have the ability to do ANALOG FM repeat. I'm not confused ..my fingers drop words at times;-) I was in paging for many years we did both...ANALOG and digital paging FSK NRZ...but D-STAR uses GSM, FSK and QPSK as well to send data, acording to the published standard that I have red.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor oscillator mod question
Sorry for the confusion... Maybe I wasn't very clear on my post. First
of all, my Micor is a repeater station, unified chassis.
I performed this mod:
For the Transmit Exciter, you have a choice:
1.) To enable the exciter all the time, connect pin 19 to pin 20 on
the top row of 30 {transmitter} interconnect board pins that come
through the backplane. These are the 3 sets of 10 pins sticking
through the backplane board on the top. Pin 19 is F1 channel element
select and pin 20 is ground.
2.) For those who don't care to have the transmitter oscillator
running all the time, you can use the (switched ground) logic provided
by the Station Control Card that was originally intended to drive the
antenna change-over relay to key the exciter channel element during
PTT. The Station Control Module Modification explains how to do this.
Ensure that you place the transmit and receive channel elements into
their respective F1 positions.
SO NO, the exciter itself is not on until the repeater is keyed up..
I have a bird dummy load on the exciter (no PA) and I have about 2.5
Watts out when the repeater is keyed up. BUT with the mod in place, I
have no power out to the bird, but do have a signal (which I'm calling
the oscillator). Is this mod just for the base station and not the
repeater station? I don't see any performance difference with the mod
in or out. (other than the signal floating around :) )
Thanks everyone,
Jordan
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Milt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The exciter should NEVER be run full time.
A Micor exciter will develop 400 milliwatts, that's 0.4 watts and
that much
loose RF running around loose in the station is asking for trouble.
Running the channel element full time is often done, but not a good
idea,
it's much better to switch the channel element on as needed. The
use of the
antenna switch transistor on the station control module as shown on
repeater
builder is an excellant idea.
Milt
N3LTQ
- Original Message -
From: Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor oscillator mod question
No one has answered his original question, that is:
What benefit does he get by wiring the exciter to be
ON all the time?
I think he's discovered one of the non-benefits and is
trying to figure out if the leakage he's experiencing
is worth the effort. Even a well-shielded and filtered
repeater station will leak something.
Personally, I think I'd only keep just the oscillator
running all the time, not the entire exciter. The only
reason I can think of doing this is if the oscillator
is slow to come up to frequency when the station is
keyed. I would expect it to take only milliseconds for
stability to occur, so there really shouldn't be any
noticeable benefit. The exciter is putting out a whole
lot more RF power than the oscillator. Perhaps this is
really what he's done, or should do.
Bob M.
==
--- Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jordan,
Assuming your Micor station has a unified chassis,
was it always a repeater,
or was it converted to repeater use from a base
station? Repeater stations
have a great deal of extra filtering in the
interconnect boards that connect
the RX and TX shelves to the backplane. The
repeater chassis also is
equipped with extra shield plates that cover the RX
and TX shelves, which
plates should be secured with all screws in place.
The purpose of the extra
filtering and shielding is to prevent (or greatly
attenuate) any direct
radiation from the exciter oscillator or the RX
injection oscillator.
73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of twoway_tech
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:15 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor oscillator mod
question
I just modified my micor UHF for the exciter to be
on all of the time.
I am not for sure that I really like this mod. The
oscillator signal
seems to carry pretty far. Can someone tell me
exactly what is gained
by wiring the exciter to be on all of the time. Is
it just for faster
transmit response time?
Thanks I'm sure there will be more questions to
come!
Jordan, K9NZF
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by Green Rating at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
They can if they want to, I know I can but in most cases you can get them cheaper through big sales companies like Ham Radio Outlet and others. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dakota Summerhawk Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:28 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo I went to the D-star site and looked for dealers for ham radio, all I got were commercial radio shops here in Cheyenne. Do they sell the D-star for the commercial line as well? Thanks Dakota Summerhawk -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Coy Hilton Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 6:42 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo It would seem that I left out analog in none of the D-STAR repeaters that I know of (ICOM) have the ability to do ANALOG FM repeat. I'm not confused ..my fingers drop words at times;-) I was in paging for many years we did both...ANALOG and digital paging FSK NRZ...but D-STAR uses GSM, FSK and QPSK as well to send data, acording to the published standard that I have red. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 5/29/2007 1:01 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 5/29/2007 1:01 PM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor oscillator mod question
Increased stability. I did that with a Hamstronics unit, but it wasn't putting out 400 mW. You could hear the iscillator running on-site, but nowhere else. Joe M. twoway_tech wrote: So,is there any point to leaving the oscillator on all the time? jordan --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: twoway_tech wrote: I just modified my micor UHF for the exciter to be on all of the time. I am not for sure that I really like this mod. The oscillator signal seems to carry pretty far. Can someone tell me exactly what is gained by wiring the exciter to be on all of the time. Is it just for faster transmit response time? Thanks I'm sure there will be more questions to come! Station? We use the (unused) antenna switch logic (on the SCM) to control the channel element ground. Works great, less filling... Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
No they don't however, Icom recently teamed up with Kenwood to develop and deploy another new digital mode (as yet unnamed last I heard) that reportedly operates within the new FCC ultra narrow 6.25Khz channel plan. An Icom America representative recently told me that this new digital mode in their commercial line (see the F5061 and F6061) is very similar to D-Star but not interchangable with it. Gary Dakota Summerhawk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went to the D-star site and looked for dealers for ham radio, all I got were commercial radio shops here in Cheyenne. Do they sell the D-star for the commercial line as well? Thanks Dakota Summerhawk
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT: Need to find a product to develop goodwill at a tower site(s)
Are we missing the obvious here?? Are all of the mobile radios capable of sending 1+1 or MDC type signaling?? I would think MDC especially would be more secure than either DTMF or PL type stuff. Even if you had to buy a small cheap voice recorder and play it back though the microphone manually... (Similar to the old pocket phone dialers) I know maxtracs can be had for little money that when paged with activate the horn/light relay output on the back. I would think that could be used to help keep things more secure. I think they can also be programmed so that they must have the correct PL/DPL code along with the 1+1 to make it trip. Just an idea. YMMV Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 612 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT: Need to find a product to develop goodwill at a tower site(s) At 04:19 PM 05/26/07, you wrote: One other thought... If they don't already have dtmf mics on their radio gear then I would not consider adding them for cost and reliability reasons. I'd probably buy some of the low cost key-chain remote control units and the master decoder receiver. It's probably easier to buy a $10 to $25 key-chain remote vs. having to place new dtmf mics on radios. skipp And one more bonus - if someone loses the key-chain remote or if someone gets fired and keeps theirs it can be dropped from the master a lot easier than reprogramming a DTMF decoder and informing everyone of the new code. There's always someone that doesn't get the message... And one comment on using a garage door opener... as I remember the starting message to this thread, it's a tower site company. This means high altitude... and the garage door opener receiver will be able to see a lot of residential area... what;s to say that some consumer down in the valley won't have the same RF frequency and digital code on their opener? There are openers that have a rolling code feature, but I don't know if those units can handle multiple remotes controlling a receiver at each of multiple sites. And all of the above assumes that the garage door opener receiver even survives at a tower site that has lots of RF in the air... (and I'm not kidding - I've seen a Genie brand receiver in a metal box with SuperFlex going to a pass cavity with 3db loops... with a 6db pad on the cavity output... and a RG-8-sized feedline to a coathanger-style ground plane. I was not able to get close enough to the feedline to read the cable type). If you do go with DTMF mics on all the mobiles (are they in place now?) and an appropriate decoder on a commercial receiver on the talkaround channel I'd suggest a deliberately poor antenna. Maybe a 6 or 10db pad between the RF connector and a stubby duck. Just to keep the riff-raff out of the system. No sense in allowing someone thirty miles away who has a beam antenna and a DC-to-Daylight programmable radio be able to open the gate. But I still question broadcasting a DTMF sequence over an open radio channel. Anybody can listen, anybody can decode, anybody can duplicate the signal. If I remember the original message there are power gate openers... a good quality key switch accessible from the vehicle door would seem to scratch their itch. Sometimes low tech is more secure. Use a Medeco or Abloy if you need key blank control. If not, just pin the key switch to an existing key on the company vehicle keyring. I know of one site where the padlock on the gate is a Schlage, and the keycode is the same as the shop vehicle driveway gate. Another trick... pick a community repeater frequency at the site... put the insensitive commercial radio on that input. Program the receiver for a DPL code that no existing user currently has. Have the DPL decoder drive a relay to open the gate. Or if the DTMF mics already exist have the DPL decoder enable the DTMF decoder. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 5/29/2007 1:01 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor oscillator mod question
Jordan, Joe answered your question accurately. The benefit of running the oscillator all the time is stability. It won't hurt anything to have the oscillator running all the time as long as the exciter is not keyed (Keyed A+ active) I often *must* keep the channel element running on my 220 true FM conversions. All the audio stages are DC capacitively coupled with relatively LARGE value capacitors. If I don't keep the osc. running all the time, the frequency swoops when the exciter is keyed until all the capacitors charge to their stable resting voltages. Once you unkey the caps discharge again and the whole process repeats the next time the exciter is keyed. Keeping the channel element and first stage running all the time eliminates this problem. The only annoyance is that you can hear the oscillator running when you are within a few hundred yards of the site (It's just amazing how far a little power will go!!!) In *most* situations there is no advantage either way. (running at all times or not) If hearing the oscillator running all the time bugs you, do the keying mod. If not, don't worry about it. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 612 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 - Original Message - From: twoway_tech [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 5:56 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor oscillator mod question So,is there any point to leaving the oscillator on all the time? jordan --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: twoway_tech wrote: I just modified my micor UHF for the exciter to be on all of the time. I am not for sure that I really like this mod. The oscillator signal seems to carry pretty far. Can someone tell me exactly what is gained by wiring the exciter to be on all of the time. Is it just for faster transmit response time? Thanks I'm sure there will be more questions to come! Station? We use the (unused) antenna switch logic (on the SCM) to control the channel element ground. Works great, less filling... Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 5/29/2007 1:01 PM
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Engineering BLD 10/120 220mhz amp info? (Blue Line)
Turn to your left and ask me about it today at the super secret electronics ham/two-way radio - broadcaster - electronics geek rail-speeder people lunch in Sacramento. I probably have that information for you. skipp The super secret Wednesday Sacramento lunch meeting is 12-1pm at the Continental Buffet, Alta-Arden Way Howe Ave. Corner of Howe Ave and Wyda (one block north of Alta-Arden). Everyone's welcome... We're only hiding the lunch meeting from one person. :-) na6df [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know that I've asked about this before, but have not really found anything. I have a VHF Engineering BLD 10/120 220mhz amp that was given to me. I'd sure like to find some docs/schematics., etc. This was one of their Blue Line amps, factory built. It has a blue anodized heat sink. It consists of a 2N6084 driving a pair of MRF245's. I was hoping to get this thing working, and then re-mount it on an old VHF continuous duty repeater amp heatsink. If the description jogs anyones memory that they may have docs, I'd sure like to get my hands on them! Thanks, Dave NA6DF
[Repeater-Builder] Re: CSI -32 info for the group (SOT)
Hi Doug, I don't remember if we talked about the CSI-32 tone panel. But here's one of my www.radiowrench.com/sonic web page descriptions for the two or three manual/information downloads I make available for free. http://www.radiowrench.com/sonic/so02010.html There are two or three back door reset methods depending on which csi-32 model you have. The method you use depends mostly on the controllers internal NVRam Chip(s). There are tricks and train wrecks depending on what you have in place. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com n3dab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many months ago I asked the group about a back door method for the CSI-32 multi-tone controller panelto enter the progamming mode, as I had a friend with a CSI-32 in which the access code was reprogammed and the new code had been lost or forgotten. I recieved several replies from the group but nothing seemed to work. Fortunately we were able to pull the chip out of one I had, read and copy copy it and insert it into my friends unit to get it working again. Below is copy of a procedure that I recently forwarded to another friend with a CSI-32 who had a similar prolem, this will work with out copying someone elses chip, (The info below should be edited and posted in the CSI section of the RB site for future reference.) This may also work on the CSI-32 super and CSI-32Plus as well. The link below will take you to the Repeater Builder Website and the .PDF file for the CSI- 32 Controller Manual. If you don't have a copy of the manual, print out a complete copy for yourself first. Then carefully read paragraph 5.10 on resetting the Programming Access Code. The Default setting is35687. It states that you can only change the last 2 digits of the code, however you can also use the A,B and D characters from the 4th row of the DTMF pad in the modified the access code string. If you can't enter the program mode using the Default No. 35687 then enter 35600 thru 35699 (100 combinations) or 356 A/B/D 0 thru 9 (30 combinations) or 356 0 thru 9A/B/D (30 combinations). There are 160 total combinations. You must wait 5 seconds between entering these combinations. After you finally locate the correct combination to unlock the Controller and place it into the programming mode write that number down on a peice of paper, and/or reprogram the access code back to the Default No.35687 so you don't have to go thru the whole process again if you lose or forget the code. Hope this helps someone else out there who has a CSI controller collecting dust because they can't reprogram it. 73 Doug N3DAB http://www.repeater-builder.com/other-mfrs/csi-32.pdf
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
The power loss through the two tx legs would be interesting. Something on the order of 3 or 4 dB maybe? Same antenna? multiple or split antenna? skipp Bob Dengler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 5/29/2007 04:56 PM, you wrote: If you have worked with multicoupled recieve antennas and combined transmit antennas, or a community antenna-type site, please drop me a line off list. I have a few questions regarding your experiences with implementation versus theory. My last system had: 445 MHz TX 422 MHz TX 439 MHz RX 440 MHz RX 2 meter repeater all running simultaneously on one antenna. What would you like to know? Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
Hey Kris, I have the following on one combiner here at work: 856.2125 857.2125 858.2125 859.2125 860.2125 859.7625 860.7625 866.8125 867.0625 867.3125 This setup is good for about 6 dB of loss. 100W from the transmitters is about 18-20 watts (calculated) at the antenna feed point. We are actually getting ready to split the combiner into 2 combiners and run half of them on one antenna and the rest on another antenna. Subtract 45 MHz from those freqs and we have those on a RX only antenna with a tower top amp and then a RX multicoupler in the shelter. Jamey Wright Systems Analyst/EDACS Administrator Morgan County EMCD 911 Decatur, AL 256-552-0911 -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kris Kirby Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:56 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters If you have worked with multicoupled recieve antennas and combined transmit antennas, or a community antenna-type site, please drop me a line off list. I have a few questions regarding your experiences with implementation versus theory. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a bit longer. -- Henry Kissinger Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
At 04:56 PM 5/29/2007, you wrote: If you have worked with multicoupled recieve antennas and combined transmit antennas, or a community antenna-type site, please drop me a line off list. I have a few questions regarding your experiences with implementation versus theory. ---I'll add to the already great responses to your question that a LOT depends on the operating frequency spacing between the various ports of the combiner. If they are spaced too closely together, the amount of loss can become astronomical and therefore impractical. Just something to think about Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
Jamey Wright wrote: Hey Kris, I have the following on one combiner here at work: 856.2125 857.2125 858.2125 859.2125 860.2125 859.7625 860.7625 866.8125 867.0625 867.3125 This setup is good for about 6 dB of loss. 100W from the transmitters is about 18-20 watts (calculated) at the antenna feed point. We are actually getting ready to split the combiner into 2 combiners and run half of them on one antenna and the rest on another antenna. Subtract 45 MHz from those freqs and we have those on a RX only antenna with a tower top amp and then a RX multicoupler in the shelter. Should be even more interesting when the 866/867 freqs get bumped down 15 Mhz. Where you're at, it should be REAL soon! -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters Nothing like cranking out 100 plus watts per channel only to see almost a smoking 10 to 15 watts per channel/frequency at the antenna side of a close spaced multi port transmit combiner. Makes one feel good to have the large space/room heater on the air. :-) cheers, s. ---I'll add to the already great responses to your question that a LOT depends on the operating frequency spacing between the various ports of the combiner. If they are spaced too closely together, the amount of loss can become astronomical and therefore impractical. Ken
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Interference and t-1504 questions
Summary so far- That extra can did nothing for solving the interference. It still came through later that day. Here are the facts: 1. I can hear the interference on the repeater reciever, an Icom 2710 dual bander, and a Motorola GP-300 portable- all while the repeater transmitter is not keyed up. 2. I ran all the possible frequencies in the area through the intermod calculator and came up with nothing. 3. I watched the carriers on the railroad freqs with a spectrum analyzer on site several times. There is quite a bit of activity going on all the time across all the frequencies I listed in a previous post. I'm assuming all the locomotives have these tx's in them, and the yard nearby is a locomotive repair shop next to the main yard. At any one time there's 20-30 locomotives sitting around that part of the yard. I didn't see anything at the time spuring on my input frequency. It might have been just hard to see- they are quick bursts of data packets and the spur may have been down too far for my analyzer to recieve (Sencore). What's intresting is that the interference disappeared all of the sudden that day. I went back over with the spectrum analyzer and basically saw the same pattern of activity, but no interference coming through on any recievers. It has been quiet ever since. Best guess I can come up with is that one of the locomotives has a bad radio and it has moved on down the line. It's hard to troubleshoot what's not there. So hopefully it's gone for good. If not, to be continued.. Tom W9SRV Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 24, 2007, at 8:40 AM, TGundo 2003 wrote: I tuned up the extra can I have as best I could with the probes I have, figuring something is better than nothing). I could get abour 30dB of isolation through it with about 1db of loss on my RX freq. I put it in-line after the rx cans on the duplexer and it seemed to have stopped the interference (at least fot the 15 minutes I listened afterwards). We'll see if this does the trick. I would like to install an Advanced Receiver Reasearch preamp I have sitting waiting for it, but I need to get this interference resolved first. Still quiet after a few days, Tom? Just curious how it worked out. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links - Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
At 10:15 AM 5/30/2007, you wrote: Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters Nothing like cranking out 100 plus watts per channel only to see almost a smoking 10 to 15 watts per channel/frequency at the antenna side of a close spaced multi port transmit combiner. ---I hate combined systems but sometimes there is no choice. On the other hand, they do tend to be clean RF wise!) Ken (it's nice to own your own sites!g) -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
[Repeater-Builder] Cleaning House ... Micor and MSY ............ Complete or Parts
I'm cleaning house and I have a number of both Micor and MSY repeaters and parts available. Most repeaters were either 460 or 470 MHz and were working when taken out of service. I have many repeaters that are complete, but I'm also not against parting out a few if necessary. I also have a number of cards, power supplies and PA's Buyer will pay actual shipping charges Questions will be answered as efficiently as possible, but as most items are stored off site, answers may be delayed a day or two. Please send your questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
Not to mention having to have A/C that can handle the heat load plus the other 30 transmitters in the building. Especially summer time in Alabama; 100 degrees F with 95% humidity. Jamey Wright Systems Analyst/EDACS Administrator Morgan County EMCD 911 Decatur, AL 256-552-0911 -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 12:16 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters Nothing like cranking out 100 plus watts per channel only to see almost a smoking 10 to 15 watts per channel/frequency at the antenna side of a close spaced multi port transmit combiner. Makes one feel good to have the large space/room heater on the air. :-) cheers, s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Cleaning House ... Micor and MSY ............ Complete or Parts
Where are you located?? Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 612 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 - Original Message - From: bbfmrf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 1:06 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Cleaning House ... Micor and MSY Complete or Parts I'm cleaning house and I have a number of both Micor and MSY repeaters and parts available. Most repeaters were either 460 or 470 MHz and were working when taken out of service. I have many repeaters that are complete, but I'm also not against parting out a few if necessary. I also have a number of cards, power supplies and PA's Buyer will pay actual shipping charges Questions will be answered as efficiently as possible, but as most items are stored off site, answers may be delayed a day or two. Please send your questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 5/29/2007 1:01 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
At 5/30/2007 09:26 AM, you wrote: The power loss through the two tx legs would be interesting. Something on the order of 3 or 4 dB maybe? More like in the low 2's. Definitely under 3 dB. Same antenna? multiple or split antenna? Just 1 antenna for everything. This is a residential site with nothing else around, so the filtering requirements were not as stringent. We just had to keep the TXs out of each other the RXs. 1 standard notch duplexer, 1 wide-split miniplexer, a couple of pass cavities isolators a crossband diplexer got 'er done. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
Why? Rather than 6 MHz + above, those will be 4 MHz + below. Shouldn't see any real change in anything. Joe M. Jim wrote: Jamey Wright wrote: 856.2125 857.2125 858.2125 859.2125 860.2125 859.7625 860.7625 866.8125 867.0625 867.3125 Should be even more interesting when the 866/867 freqs get bumped down 15 Mhz. Where you're at, it should be REAL soon! -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Cleaning House ... Micor and MSY ............ Complete or Parts
I just heard back from him via private e-mail. He's located just outside of Chicago. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Scott Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where are you located?? Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 612 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 - Original Message - From: bbfmrf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 1:06 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Cleaning House ... Micor and MSY Complete or Parts I'm cleaning house and I have a number of both Micor and MSY repeaters and parts available. Most repeaters were either 460 or 470 MHz and were working when taken out of service. I have many repeaters that are complete, but I'm also not against parting out a few if necessary. I also have a number of cards, power supplies and PA's Buyer will pay actual shipping charges Questions will be answered as efficiently as possible, but as most items are stored off site, answers may be delayed a day or two. Please send your questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.3/824 - Release Date: 5/29/2007 1:01 PM
[Repeater-Builder] GE MASTRII ICOM and Key
I am looking for a cabinet key and a tx and rx ICOM set for a vhf GE MASTR II repeater (not a converted mobile). 147.330 TX and 147.930 RX is what I am ultimately looking for, but could use any working ones and have them recrystalled. If anyone has a spare set, or knows of a source, please reply off list to rc303 at hotmail dot com. Thanks, Ron _ Create the ultimate e-mail address book. Import your contacts to Windows Live Hotmail. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/managemail2.html?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_impcont_0507
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
At 5/30/2007 01:10 AM, you wrote: While the typical 50 dB analog NBFM (5 kHz deviation) bandwidth is ~20 kHz, the 50 dB bandwidth of DStar appears to be about 10 kHz. Here in SoCal we're proposing 10 kHz channel spacing for DStar, digital P25 any other very narrow band digital voice, or VNBDV, systems. Discussion here locally is leaning toward 12.5 KHz spacing for what's really needed for P25 Phase I systems, not 10 KHz. The discussion was also backed up with tests of real-world BER (bit-error rate) at closer and closer spacings (overlapping) by a local Amateur with access to the appropriate P25 test equipment. In lab testing, 10 KHz spacing and it's effect on P25 BER is not real pretty. Sounds like DStar MAY have an edge over P25 Phase I, at least in terms of occupied bandwidth. (Good luck finding test equipment that supports D-Star. Ever.) I guess you weren't at Dayton. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
At 5/30/2007 07:08 AM, you wrote: No they don't however, Icom recently teamed up with Kenwood to develop and deploy another new digital mode (as yet unnamed last I heard) that reportedly operates within the new FCC ultra narrow 6.25Khz channel plan. An Icom America representative recently told me that this new digital mode in their commercial line (see the F5061 and F6061) is very similar to D-Star but not interchangable with it. Gary This may be the basis for the rumor at Dayton that Kenwood demoed a DStar radio in Japan. Don't see anything about it on the Kenwood Japan web page, though. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
(Good luck finding test equipment that supports D-Star. Ever.) I guess you weren't at Dayton. Nope. Want to share? So IFR, Motorola, or similar were there with a commercial service monitor or something equal to that quality level, that had a D-Star mode? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
[Repeater-Builder] Motorola TLD8272B,1995 to trade
hi all i have here and 1995,vhf receiver card TLD8272B with his channell element and i would like to trade it for a parts for my master 2,i need an NHRC contrler http://www.nhrc.net/nhrc-3m2plus/ http://www.nhrc.net/nhrc-3m2plus/ if there is someone interested in the bargain let me know, 73/s gervais ve2ckn/va2dq
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
Bob Dengler wrote: Sounds like DStar MAY have an edge over P25 Phase I, at least in terms of occupied bandwidth. No-there won't be any difference in bandwidth, since the only difference is how the bits are arranged. The modulation technique is the same. Just like Motorola Astro and M/A-Com Aegis and Pro-Voice. They are all C4FM, with the same IMBE vocoder. (Good luck finding test equipment that supports D-Star. Ever.) I guess you weren't at Dayton. Bob NO6B I can't imagine anyone making test equipment for D-Star, but tell us what you saw! Maybe a decoder that could be attached to any discriminator output, including most service monitors...and a serial port link to a PC...that *could* be affordable... -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
Discussion here locally is leaning toward 12.5 KHz spacing for what's really needed for P25 Phase I systems, not 10 KHz. The discussion was also backed up with tests of real-world BER (bit-error rate) at closer and closer spacings (overlapping) by a local Amateur with access to the appropriate P25 test equipment. In lab testing, 10 KHz spacing and it's effect on P25 BER is not real pretty. Replying to my own message because I already deleted Bob's, but his comment that D-Star might have an advantage over P25 because of the above comment I made, is only half the picture. Occupied bandwidth of D-Star is lower, but it also *sounds* worse. The CODEC is heavily compressed, and sounds so bad I wouldn't want to use it for day-to-day communications... My opinion only... -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
Bob Dengler wrote: Sounds like DStar MAY have an edge over P25 Phase I, at least in terms of occupied bandwidth. No-there won't be any difference in bandwidth, since the only difference is how the bits are arranged. The modulation technique is the same. Just like Motorola Astro and M/A-Com Aegis and Pro-Voice. They are all C4FM, with the same IMBE vocoder. One's AMBE, one's IMBE... I don't think that is correct. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE MASTRII ICOM and Key
I am looking for a cabinet key and a tx and rx ICOM set for a vhf GE MASTR II repeater (not a converted mobile). 147.330 TX and 147.930 RX is what I am ultimately looking for, but could use any working ones and have them recrystalled. If anyone has a spare set, or knows of a source, please reply off list to rc303 at hotmail dot com. ICOM: 2C, 5C? VHF regular, or PLL style? http://repeater-builder.com/ge/mastrii/m2icoms.html -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GE MASTRII ICOM and Key
VHF regular, 5C or 2C To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:07:32 -0600Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE MASTRII ICOM and Key I am looking for a cabinet key and a tx and rx ICOM set for a vhf GE MASTR II repeater (not a converted mobile). 147.330 TX and 147.930 RX is what I am ultimately looking for, but could use any working ones and have them recrystalled. If anyone has a spare set, or knows of a source, please reply off list to rc303 at hotmail dot com.ICOM: 2C, 5C? VHF regular, or PLL style?http://repeater-builder.com/ge/mastrii/m2icoms.html-- Nate Duehr, WY0X _ Download Messenger. Start an i’m conversation. Support a cause. Join now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGWL_MAY07
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
If you have worked with multicoupled recieve antennas and combined transmit antennas, or a community antenna-type site, please drop me a line off list. I have a few questions regarding your experiences with implementation versus theory. Might as well ask the questions in public, other people will learn from it. We have multiple repeaters where the systems use combiner/multicouplers. Our experience with them has been fine. At one site, the noise/crud is so high that the combiner/multi-coupler system actually helps protect the VHF systems with the 600 KHz splits from each other, keeping mixing and desense from being a major issue. One of the other systems tried an experiment to use a separate receive antenna and they needed a lot of filtering to keep our 11W into an 8-bay folded dipole only 15' away, mixed with god-only-knows-what-else-up-there at that almost 6000' HAAT site, from blowing away the front-end of their brandy-spankin-new Kenwood every time we keyed up. We even tried to help out their experiment with an additional pass can on our transmitter, losing another 1dB at our output frequency before the combiner, to get our signal a few more dB down at their input -- didn't help. No such problems on the properly tuned/configured combiner/multicoupler system. (And I'm not saying anything bad about them giving it a try. They did it with a remote co-ax relay switch and a 2nd antenna mounted in a temporary location.) -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor oscillator mod question
Sorry for the confusion... Maybe I wasn't very clear on my post. First of all, my Micor is a repeater station, unified chassis. I performed this mod: SNIP SO NO, the exciter itself is not on until the repeater is keyed up.. I have a bird amp; dummy load on the exciter (no PA) and I have about 2.5 Watts out when the repeater is keyed up. BUT with the mod in place, I have no power out to the bird, but do have a signal Then the mod has not been performed correctly. The mod provides a switched ground to the channel element enable pin when the PTT is keyed. Kevin Message sent using Telaen Webmail 1.1.2
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
One of the other systems tried an experiment to use a separate receive antenna and they needed a lot of filtering to keep our 11W into an 8-bay folded dipole only 15' The hardware description is part of or most of the reported problem description: Wide-band close coupled relatively high/moderate gain antenna(s). away, mixed with god-only-knows-what-else-up-there at that almost 6000' HAAT site, from blowing away the front-end of their brandy-spankin-new Kenwood every time we keyed up. You keyed up how far away (frequency spacing) and at what power level? Circulators or isolators in use? Did anyone measure the two antennas - system isolation/coupling value(s). We even tried to help out their experiment with an additional pass can on our transmitter, losing another 1dB at our output frequency before the combiner, to get our signal a few more dB down at their input -- didn't help. What I would probably expect as a result... No such problems on the properly tuned/configured combiner - multicoupler system. If the system was properly designed, constructed and applied. s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
Don't forget that only HALF of the D-Star's 4800 signal is used for voice data, so you have effectively 2400 used for voice. Joe M. Nate Duehr wrote: Discussion here locally is leaning toward 12.5 KHz spacing for what's really needed for P25 Phase I systems, not 10 KHz. The discussion was also backed up with tests of real-world BER (bit-error rate) at closer and closer spacings (overlapping) by a local Amateur with access to the appropriate P25 test equipment. In lab testing, 10 KHz spacing and it's effect on P25 BER is not real pretty. Replying to my own message because I already deleted Bob's, but his comment that D-Star might have an advantage over P25 because of the above comment I made, is only half the picture. Occupied bandwidth of D-Star is lower, but it also *sounds* worse. The CODEC is heavily compressed, and sounds so bad I wouldn't want to use it for day-to-day communications... My opinion only... -- Nate Duehr, WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
What do they do with the other half? On 5/30/07, mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget that only HALF of the D-Star's 4800 signal is used for voice data, so you have effectively 2400 used for voice. Joe M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
On May 30, 2007, at 4:12 PM, DCFluX wrote: What do they do with the other half? On 5/30/07, mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget that only HALF of the D-Star's 4800 signal is used for voice data, so you have effectively 2400 used for voice. Joe M. Forward Error Correction, I believe. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
[Repeater-Builder] MCC RC-1000v repeater controller - to msr-2000 squelch gate module interface
Re: MCC RC-1000v repeater controller Someone sent me their non-working MSR-2000 Squelch Gate Module interface along with a Micro Computer Concepts RC-1000v Repeater Controller. I worked out the bugs with his Squelch Gate Module conversion and moved on to the controller side of the project. The SQ Module COS output logic requires an added +Vcc pull up resistor (easy enough) to work with the RC-1000v cos input line. And then... The RC-1000v was locked up tight as a drum and not responding to any commands or cos/cor input logic. A phone call to Ron at MCC to obtain the secret master reset (to default) info, which actually worked like a charm. An A+ to Ron at MCC for customer support! For what it is... the RC-1000v Repeater Controller is pretty nice basic repeater controller unit. Per many previous posts I've learned a number of the group members are also interested in small board computers and sb units made into repeater controllers. About the one hardware quirk I found was the controller ctcss detect logic was only set up for active high operation. (yuck!) With an active low ctcss detect line you would need to add an additional transistor/fet inverter stage or as in my case carefully bypass the extra Q9 inverter stage on the board. A lot of repeater controllers are set up for nearly flat audio so I could hear some ctcss blowing through the controller voice audio path. It is possible future gremlin source if one is not paying attention to the system details. Level adjustment is another bit of fun... especially if you don't have a service monitor and/or scope to help out. I can see how people quickly become lost without good test equipment around. So the MSR to External Controller Interface is now completed, aligned on a local machine and return sent back out to the Texas Owner. The MCC RC-1000v is typical of a many Small Board Repeater Controllers and quite feature rich for what it is. Details of MCC Repeater Controllers can be found on their web pages. Overall I can say the hardware is as-good as most other similar small board repeater controllers. Based on this and other recent MSR-2000 Squelch Gate Module interface projects completed in the last few months... my original conversion text is due for an update. cheers, skipp
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Combined/Coupled Repeaters/Transmitters
On May 30, 2007, at 3:55 PM, skipp025 wrote: The hardware description is part of or most of the reported problem description: Wide-band close coupled relatively high/moderate gain antenna(s). Yup. Recipe for trouble. We tried to tell 'em... but... well, anyway... no harm done. away, mixed with god-only-knows-what-else-up-there at that almost 6000' HAAT site, from blowing away the front-end of their brandy-spankin-new Kenwood every time we keyed up. You keyed up how far away (frequency spacing) and at what power level? Circulators or isolators in use? Did anyone measure the two antennas - system isolation/coupling value(s). I don't want this to turn into them thinking I'm picking on them, but for the sake of the technical discussion... We're at 145.145 MHz for our output. Their input is 146.07. The temporary antenna was set up 15' away (on a building) from the tower where the 8-bay TX antenna of the coupled systems was direct line-of-fire towards it. If I remember correctly, it was a 4-bay DB. Isolator (of course, in the combiner) on ours... don't know about theirs. Doesn't matter much for their receiver. No measurements of the type you mention were made by anyone that I know of. If there were, it was their experiment and they didn't share. Didn't matter to us, really. We just watched with interest and gave 'em a phone call when we noticed their change had caused us to desense them. (Technically they could have figured that out on their own, but someone pointed out to me that not telling them would have been pretty rude, once I noticed it was definitely us involved... I would have wanted a call from them if I couldn't figure it out and was on the receiving end of that problem. Thankfully, we weren't on the receiving end, so we just called and let 'em know.) Previously they had tried to move their TX off the combiner also, and they desensed/bothered the repeater with a 146.34 input. Their TX was back on the combiner, but RX was on the separate test antenna at the time of the above story. (Basically throughout this, we all knew others had tried this before, and we attempted to share with the new tech that he was going to run into these problems, but he wanted to see it for himself... which was fine with us -- like I mentioned before, they had a way to remotely switch it all back if major problems had ever popped up. Everyone that ever goes up to that particular site who's never worked on stuff at a high-RF-noise site, thinks they can get back that couple of dB we're all losing in the receive multi-coupler. Problem is, they forget to do a usable sensitivity test and then can't figure out why things don't get better... all they do is pull in another 2 dB of noise... and maybe once in a while, they get a tiny bit better signal from a weak user.) We even tried to help out their experiment with an additional pass can on our transmitter, losing another 1dB at our output frequency before the combiner, to get our signal a few more dB down at their input -- didn't help. What I would probably expect as a result... Yup. Us too. We were just playing friendly neighbor and got burnt by it by blowing our own PA. Dumb. Won't be so neighborly next time, probably, as to make a change to our system to try to help someone else's mistake. (GRIN) No such problems on the properly tuned/configured combiner - multicoupler system. If the system was properly designed, constructed and applied. Yep. There is that... gotta do it right. The combiner/multicoupler system was carefully aligned/tuned on a vector network analyzer years ago. We try to tell new techs to leave it the hell alone, but we've heard of at least one group wrenching on their port many years ago... We're lucky, being the low-side we're on 2 ports to ourselves, and the two higher machines share their combiner section (then those two are combined to make it a 4-port system). So if someone fires up the golden screwdriver, they usually don't bother us. That might be a point for the guy who was originally asking about such systems... tune/configure it correctly and then threaten to break the fingers of any new repeater tech for any group using the thing that decides they just HAVE to screw around with it. Make sure someone is in charge of the combiner/multicoupler system, and keep newbies from messing with it. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT: Need to find a product to develop goodwill at a tower site(s)
Scott, I think you hit the nail on the head! Many of the suggestions received so far call for the purchase and installation of new radios and/or microphones. Other suggestions call for reprogramming of every radio in the fleet. Such solutions can hardly qualify as simple or inexpensive. Let's get back to the original premise, which must be simple and inexpensive. That rules out any reprogramming of the existing fleet radios, any additional radios, and any additional microphones. That doesn't leave us much, especially if there is no electrically-operated gate at the site now. How will the technicians get into the site, if the power has failed? the typical mountaintop radio site usually has one power line feeding it, and when that dies, the generator- if indeed there is one- probably feeds only the critical radios. Once you thoroughly understand the up-front and continuing maintenance costs of an electrically-operated vehicle gate, and the complexity of its positive control, the plain old padlock looks pretty darn good! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:57 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT: Need to find a product to develop goodwill at a tower site(s) Are we missing the obvious here?? Are all of the mobile radios capable of sending 1+1 or MDC type signaling?? I would think MDC especially would be more secure than either DTMF or PL type stuff. Even if you had to buy a small cheap voice recorder and play it back though the microphone manually... (Similar to the old pocket phone dialers) I know maxtracs can be had for little money that when paged with activate the horn/light relay output on the back. I would think that could be used to help keep things more secure. I think they can also be programmed so that they must have the correct PL/DPL code along with the 1+1 to make it trip. Just an idea. YMMV Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 612 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:wa6ilq%40pacbell.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT: Need to find a product to develop goodwill at a tower site(s) At 04:19 PM 05/26/07, you wrote: One other thought... If they don't already have dtmf mics on their radio gear then I would not consider adding them for cost and reliability reasons. I'd probably buy some of the low cost key-chain remote control units and the master decoder receiver. It's probably easier to buy a $10 to $25 key-chain remote vs. having to place new dtmf mics on radios. skipp And one more bonus - if someone loses the key-chain remote or if someone gets fired and keeps theirs it can be dropped from the master a lot easier than reprogramming a DTMF decoder and informing everyone of the new code. There's always someone that doesn't get the message... And one comment on using a garage door opener... as I remember the starting message to this thread, it's a tower site company. This means high altitude... and the garage door opener receiver will be able to see a lot of residential area... what;s to say that some consumer down in the valley won't have the same RF frequency and digital code on their opener? There are openers that have a rolling code feature, but I don't know if those units can handle multiple remotes controlling a receiver at each of multiple sites. And all of the above assumes that the garage door opener receiver even survives at a tower site that has lots of RF in the air... (and I'm not kidding - I've seen a Genie brand receiver in a metal box with SuperFlex going to a pass cavity with 3db loops... with a 6db pad on the cavity output... and a RG-8-sized feedline to a coathanger-style ground plane. I was not able to get close enough to the feedline to read the cable type). If you do go with DTMF mics on all the mobiles (are they in place now?) and an appropriate decoder on a commercial receiver on the talkaround channel I'd suggest a deliberately poor antenna. Maybe a 6 or 10db pad between the RF connector and a stubby duck. Just to keep the riff-raff out of the system. No sense in allowing someone thirty miles away who has a beam antenna and a DC-to-Daylight programmable radio be able to open the gate. But I still question broadcasting a DTMF sequence over an open radio channel. Anybody can listen, anybody can decode, anybody can duplicate the signal. If I remember the original message there are power gate openers... a good quality key switch accessible from the vehicle door would seem to scratch their itch. Sometimes low tech is more secure. Use a Medeco or Abloy if you need key blank control. If not, just pin the key switch to an
[Repeater-Builder] Ritron Repeater on 440?
Hello. Has anyone moved a Ritron repeater plus to 440? Are the Ritron duplexers useable on 440? I have one I would like to use but there is no sense buying new xtals if it is not possible. 73 Randy AB9GO
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
Actually correction for half of the 'other 2400' and the other 1200 is for data. Joe M. Nate Duehr wrote: On May 30, 2007, at 4:12 PM, DCFluX wrote: What do they do with the other half? On 5/30/07, mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget that only HALF of the D-Star's 4800 signal is used for voice data, so you have effectively 2400 used for voice. Joe M. Forward Error Correction, I believe. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Do Anyone Use Their Repeater For This
As I have stated before, our ARES program is in the process of setting up a repeater for our emergency communications throughout our county. It will also be an open repeater when not in use for emergency communications. What I need to know and can have some help on is the following, Does anyone out there that is using their repeater to support emergency operations, have it setup to also send out a page to pagers that emergency operators may have. Here is what we want to do, we wish to obtain some 2 meter voice pagers, Minitors or similar, like those used by most volunteer fire departments, and set them to receive on the same frequency as our repeater, when they receive a proper 2 tone signal from the repeater. We wish to do this so that we do not have to obtain a seperate frequency just for our pagers, plus some members are not hams, but they would be able to monitor communications during a disaster. I have been told that we can reset such pagers to work on the frequency that we have been coordinated. We are interested in having such a setup, but need to know if anyone else is doing it? If so, how are you sending the tones for the pager and such. If someone has a white paper on their setup or a detailed 'instruction manual' on your setup and how you designed and operate it, that would be great. In fact if someone has that and is willing, we would like to use it to publish a story on our ARES site, about such group that is using it and that we are trying to add it to our system
[Repeater-Builder] New 2 way radio Group
Hi all Here is a link for a new yahoo group for swapping Manuals and Technical nfo covering all makes and models of way radio. The more people that sign up the better it will work. http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/technicalswap
[Repeater-Builder] Want to add VHF cross band link for my portable UHF repeater
I have a portable UHF repeater being put together and I'd like to include either a simplex or duplex VHF system to link in/out to existing VHF repeaters or VHF simplex users. The UHF side would be the local master repeater with the duplexer. I have that already. I have not picked a controller yet. What would work well on this and also draw as little current at 12vdc as possible? DTMF control would be fine. Thanks! Ronny K4RJJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: CSI -32 info for the group (SOT)
Skipp, You and I talked about this about 2 maybe 3 years ago and i think I got some feedback for Eric at the same time. At the time I don't believe you or eric had a specific answer to my question. So until i located aa local source to copy the chip we were dead in the water. Another Ham recetly pointed out that onlty the last 2 digits could be changed, prompting me to pull the manual out and carefully reread it. The hole problem turned out to be pilot error on my part. I'll look at the referenced link. but my problems for the CSI's are solved now. Thanks for the additonal input. Doug -- Doug N3DAB/WPRX486 skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Hi Doug, I don't remember if we talked about the CSI-32 tone panel. But here's one of my www.radiowrench.com/sonic web page descriptions for the two or three manual/information downloads I make available for free. http://www.radiowrench.com/sonic/so02010.html There are two or three back door reset methods depending on which csi-32 model you have. The method you use depends mostly on the controllers internal NVRam Chip(s). There are tricks and train wrecks depending on what you have in place. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com n3dab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many months ago I asked the group about a back door method for the CSI-32 multi-tone controller panelto enter the progamming mode, as I had a friend with a CSI-32 in which the access code was reprogammed and the new code had been lost or forgotten. I recieved several replies from the group but nothing seemed to work. Fortunately we were able to pull the chip out of one I had, read and copy copy it and insert it into my friends unit to get it working again. Below is copy of a procedure that I recently forwarded to another friend with a CSI-32 who had a similar prolem, this will work with out copying someone elses chip, (The info below should be edited and posted in the CSI section of the RB site for future reference.) This may also work on the CSI-32 super and CSI-32Plus as well. The link below will take you to the Repeater Builder Website and the .PDF file for the CSI- 32 Controller Manual. If you don't have a copy of the manual, print out a complete copy for yourself first. Then carefully read paragraph 5.10 on resetting the Programming Access Code. The Default setting is35687. It states that you can only change the last 2 digits of the code, however you can also use the A,B and D characters from the 4th row of the DTMF pad in the modified the access code string. If you can't enter the program mode using the Default No. 35687 then enter 35600 thru 35699 (100 combinations) or 356 A/B/D 0 thru 9 (30 combinations) or 356 0 thru 9A/B/D (30 combinations). There are 160 total combinations. You must wait 5 seconds between entering these combinations. After you finally locate the correct combination to unlock the Controller and place it into the programming mode write that number down on a peice of paper, and/or reprogram the access code back to the Default No.35687 so you don't have to go thru the whole process again if you lose or forget the code. Hope this helps someone else out there who has a CSI controller collecting dust because they can't reprogram it. 73 Doug N3DAB http://www.repeater-builder.com/other-mfrs/csi-32.pdf
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
At 5/30/2007 13:54, you wrote: (Good luck finding test equipment that supports D-Star. Ever.) I guess you weren't at Dayton. Nope. Want to share? I wish I remember more of the details, but the best I remember it was not a commercial unit in the usual sense, but rather something that one of the 3rd party DStar groups put together. I can say that it's not vaporware: it was operating showing various parameters of the received DStar signal. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star demo
At 5/30/2007 14:03, you wrote: Discussion here locally is leaning toward 12.5 KHz spacing for what's really needed for P25 Phase I systems, not 10 KHz. The discussion was also backed up with tests of real-world BER (bit-error rate) at closer and closer spacings (overlapping) by a local Amateur with access to the appropriate P25 test equipment. In lab testing, 10 KHz spacing and it's effect on P25 BER is not real pretty. Replying to my own message because I already deleted Bob's, but his comment that D-Star might have an advantage over P25 because of the above comment I made, is only half the picture. Occupied bandwidth of D-Star is lower, but it also *sounds* worse. The CODEC is heavily compressed, and sounds so bad I wouldn't want to use it for day-to-day communications... I guess that's a matter of opinion. The demos I've heard sound good to me - I rather like the compression feel it adds intelligibility. Certainly much better sounding than the Mototrbo demo on the page recently posted here. Bob NO6B
