Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/29/2012 04:44 AM, Abrolag wrote: > On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:31:44 +0200 > Richard Bown wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Abrolagwrote: >> >>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:32:13 -1000 >>> david wrote: >>> >>> Guitarists are like cats. >>> >> >> Does this mean that managing software developers is like herding guitarists? >> >> R > > Now *there's* an interesting concept. Life with Dennis Coffey and the Detroit Guitar Band? -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:31:44 +0200 Richard Bown wrote: > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Abrolag wrote: > > > On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:32:13 -1000 > > david wrote: > > > > Guitarists are like cats. > > > > Does this mean that managing software developers is like herding guitarists? > > R Now *there's* an interesting concept. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/24/2012 07:31 AM, Richard Bown wrote: > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Abrolag wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:32:13 -1000 > david wrote: > > Guitarists are like cats. > > Does this mean that managing software developers is like herding guitarists? > > R I've always left the task of managing software developers up to project managers. I believe they've received gene mods and biotech implants developed for that specific task. -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
Abrolag wrote: > On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:32:13 -1000 > david wrote: > > > On 09/20/2012 08:06 AM, Stephen H. Dawson wrote: > > > > > How many guitarist does it take to change a light-bulb? > > > 2. 1 to do it, the other to explain how much better they could have > > > done it. ;-) > > > > And two more guitarists to explain how much better it would have sounded > > if they'd used a custom-wound pickup coil or a different setting on > > their effects pedal or ran the output through this model amp instead of > > that model amp. > > > > My guitarist thinks an "arpeggio" is a synthesizer effect. ;-) > > > Guitarists are like cats. > They can never be truly domesticated. Or herded. -- david gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
Leo Kottke travels with a huge pile of acoustic guitars for 2 reasons. One is he uses a lot of different open tunings. The other is that when a guitar goes out of tune, he swaps it for another guitar while an assistant off-stage retunes the first guitar. -- david gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community Michael Gerdau wrote: > > Is now the time to point out many people play guitar with "alternative > > tunings"? I know I do, it makes it MUCH easier. Notice how many > > performers keep switching guitars between songs, that is probably because > > the guitars are tuned differently - i.e. to make the song easy to play. > > And I had thought that's because a Gibson sounds different than a > Stratocaster than a Les Paul than an accoustic guitar than a 12 string > guitar... > > Pls forgive my ignorance. Again learned something new... > > Best wishes, > Michael > -- > Michael Gerdau email: m...@qata.de > GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Abrolag wrote: > On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:32:13 -1000 > david wrote: > > Guitarists are like cats. > Does this mean that managing software developers is like herding guitarists? R -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:32:13 -1000 david wrote: > On 09/20/2012 08:06 AM, Stephen H. Dawson wrote: > > > How many guitarist does it take to change a light-bulb? > > 2. 1 to do it, the other to explain how much better they could have > > done it. ;-) > > And two more guitarists to explain how much better it would have sounded > if they'd used a custom-wound pickup coil or a different setting on > their effects pedal or ran the output through this model amp instead of > that model amp. > > My guitarist thinks an "arpeggio" is a synthesizer effect. ;-) Guitarists are like cats. They can never be truly domesticated. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 24 Sep 2012, at 12:56, Johan Vromans wrote: > Of course, I've seen only a limited number of guitarists... I think it's safe to say N guitarists = at least N+1 opinions. I have some too of course but I'm keeping schtum. R -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
r...@hydrophones.com writes: > Is now the time to point out many people play guitar with "alternative > tunings"? I know I do, it makes it MUCH easier. Notice how many > performers keep switching guitars between songs, that is probably because > the guitars are tuned differently - i.e. to make the song easy to play. Sometimes, but not often. To be more precise: I estimate 90% of the guitar players to play in the standard tuning. Professionals often change guitars due to the specific sound (e.g., acoustig, electical, nylon versus steel versus phosphor, jazz-guitar versus country guitar, fender versus gibson), technical issues (e.g., piezo versus soundhole element, single coil versus humbucker) and not in the least, the playability of a specific piece on a specific guitar (e.g., small versus wide neck, cut away). Of the guitarists I've seen playing with differing tunings, most played in DADGAD and switched guitars for the exactly the same reasons as mentioned above. Only very few did change guitars because of the tuning. Most of them just retune on stage. Of course, I've seen only a limited number of guitarists... -- Johan -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
> > Isn't that basically asking for a free lunch ? > > Isn't everything in the open source world? You think so ? I clearly differ. For me it has to do with rights, knowledge and being in control, at least potentially. Just an example: Logic Studio is sold for 149 € in Apple's App store. Featurewise it is several generations ahead of Rosegarden and in many aspects of Ardour as well although Ardour delivers a couple of really nice things. When you shell out your 149 € you have a full featured music production and performing system with a bunch of very nice soft instruments. For me it runs out of the box. No such thing as incompatible this and missing that. Yes, I can reliably crash Logic. Yes, you need a Mac to run it (but you can as well put Linux on that box - them Retina Displays are really nice... ;) To sum it up: >From a feature and time invested to get it working point of view I have yet to find an open source product that is even remotely in the same league as programs like Logic (and I assume all of Logic's commercial competitors). > > And as an afterthought: > > If a guitar player wishes to play around with arbitrarily pitched > > strings > > he should transpose it himself. He'll learn something that way. Or even > > learn to transpose on the fly. Not that I'd consider that more useful > > than properly mastering the instrument in the first place. > > Part of the reason popular music is so popular is because people who > don't spend a vast chunk of their lives mastering rigid rules can have > fun making noise. I find it a lot more relaxing than trying to do > anything the "correct" way. Again: You think so ? It is my impression that the truely successful popular music is mostly written AND performed by musicians that have learned things the "correct" way (as you put it). This even goes for musicians that never had proper teaching but instead spent hour by hour learning their instrument on their own for many years. A couple of guitar heros fall into this category. I also think some of the stuff that's "created" by "music illiterates" the easy way might be commercially successful at least for a short period of time but it is not lasting in any way. I'm aware this is a requirement that might not fit with some other's. Again just my 0.02 €, best wishes, Michael -- Michael Gerdau email: m...@qata.de GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/24/2012 04:28 AM, Michael Gerdau wrote: > Isn't that basically asking for a free lunch ? Isn't everything in the open source world? > And as an afterthought: > If a guitar player wishes to play around with arbitrarily pitched strings > he should transpose it himself. He'll learn something that way. Or even > learn to transpose on the fly. Not that I'd consider that more useful than > properly mastering the instrument in the first place. Part of the reason popular music is so popular is because people who don't spend a vast chunk of their lives mastering rigid rules can have fun making noise. I find it a lot more relaxing than trying to do anything the "correct" way. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
> Of course those are legitimate reasons too, but yes, lots of guitar guys > fool around with alternative tunings. There are a half dozen or so > "standard" alternate tunings, and then all kinds of weird stuff on top > of that. It's part of why writing anything for or concerning guitar is > always complicated. There's always some guy who complains that your > stuff doesn't work in DADGAD tuning or whatever, and can you please > support arbitrary pitches for individual strings. Isn't that basically asking for a free lunch ? Being classically educated my kind of universal answer to this type of complain is: Do a some more practicing and learn to master your instrument. And as an afterthought: If a guitar player wishes to play around with arbitrarily pitched strings he should transpose it himself. He'll learn something that way. Or even learn to transpose on the fly. Not that I'd consider that more useful than properly mastering the instrument in the first place. My 0.02 €, best wishes, Michael -- Michael Gerdau email: m...@qata.de GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 23/09/12 14:19, Johan Vromans wrote: > Al Thompson writes: > >> Well, he's RIGHT! There's no possible way for standard notation to >> indicate on which string and at what fret any particular note is to be >> played, and most notes on a guitar can be played in multiple locations. > Depends on what you call 'standard notation'. I've seen quite a few > sheets [for classical guitar] with exact fingerings, Standard/'traditional' notation can notate left and right fingering, strings and base position frets (that's the position where your 1st left-hand finger is (i.e. your index)). But this is mainly used in classical guitar. Lorenzo PS. BTW electric guitar is not the only guitar (in similar fashion as Ubuntu's not all linux :P) > which is already a > very good hint for the actual fret positions, but sometimes also > including explicit fret positions. > > -- Johan > > > -- > Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. > Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics > Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? > http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/24/2012 03:41 AM, Michael Gerdau wrote: > And I had thought that's because a Gibson sounds different than a > Stratocaster than a Les Paul than an accoustic guitar than a 12 string > guitar... Of course those are legitimate reasons too, but yes, lots of guitar guys fool around with alternative tunings. There are a half dozen or so "standard" alternate tunings, and then all kinds of weird stuff on top of that. It's part of why writing anything for or concerning guitar is always complicated. There's always some guy who complains that your stuff doesn't work in DADGAD tuning or whatever, and can you please support arbitrary pitches for individual strings. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
> Is now the time to point out many people play guitar with "alternative > tunings"? I know I do, it makes it MUCH easier. Notice how many > performers keep switching guitars between songs, that is probably because > the guitars are tuned differently - i.e. to make the song easy to play. And I had thought that's because a Gibson sounds different than a Stratocaster than a Les Paul than an accoustic guitar than a 12 string guitar... Pls forgive my ignorance. Again learned something new... Best wishes, Michael -- Michael Gerdau email: m...@qata.de GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
Is now the time to point out many people play guitar with "alternative tunings"? I know I do, it makes it MUCH easier. Notice how many performers keep switching guitars between songs, that is probably because the guitars are tuned differently - i.e. to make the song easy to play. That being said, the Linux world has a most excellent guitar simulation app, specifically "Tuxguitar" which plays very nicely with RoseGarden and does nearly everything one could want with respect to guitar. Have fun! Rich Marschall http://www.hydrophones.com/MAI-Audio -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
Yes, Johan has finally asked the most targeted question of this thread. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Guitar+notation Guitar Notation = Tablature, really? Sounds bias to me, but the WWW is wide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablature "indicating instrument fingering rather than musical pitches." So much for a common system of identification. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizationally_Unique_Identifier HA!, not that would not work here. ;-) http://www.acousticguitar.com/lessons/notation/notation.shtml -Articulations, that is the most effective thing for me the years. -Fingering, when *really* necessary, depending upon the reading audience. How about 6-months of guitar lessons? That would solve a lot of problems. -S On 09/23/2012 08:19 AM, Johan Vromans wrote: > Al Thompson writes: > >> Well, he's RIGHT! There's no possible way for standard notation to >> indicate on which string and at what fret any particular note is to be >> played, and most notes on a guitar can be played in multiple locations. > Depends on what you call 'standard notation'. I've seen quite a few > sheets [for classical guitar] with exact fingerings, which is already a > very good hint for the actual fret positions, but sometimes also > including explicit fret positions. > > -- Johan > > > -- > Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. > Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics > Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? > http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > > -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
Al Thompson writes: > Well, he's RIGHT! There's no possible way for standard notation to > indicate on which string and at what fret any particular note is to be > played, and most notes on a guitar can be played in multiple locations. Depends on what you call 'standard notation'. I've seen quite a few sheets [for classical guitar] with exact fingerings, which is already a very good hint for the actual fret positions, but sometimes also including explicit fret positions. -- Johan -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/20/2012 08:06 AM, Stephen H. Dawson wrote: > How many guitarist does it take to change a light-bulb? > 2. 1 to do it, the other to explain how much better they could have > done it. ;-) And two more guitarists to explain how much better it would have sounded if they'd used a custom-wound pickup coil or a different setting on their effects pedal or ran the output through this model amp instead of that model amp. My guitarist thinks an "arpeggio" is a synthesizer effect. ;-) -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/20/2012 08:50 AM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: > On 09/20/2012 08:48 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: > >> Not to mention the lengthy (and rather boring :) debate about how >> harmonics should be notated, that is if the real note should be notated >> or the note corresponding to the guitar position (or in some cases even >> both!) > > If it makes you feel better, guitar is not the only instrument with > *that* problem by far. I think notation runs into that kind of limitation with a number of instruments. Leaves things up to the player, room for interpretation. Has the problem been addressed for synthesizers - some way to include all the settings needed to correctly reproduce the sound? -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/20/2012 01:31 PM, Al Thompson wrote: > On 09/20/2012 01:54 PM, david wrote: >> My lead guitarist's response to the whole thing of scores was that >> tablature is the only real guitar score, since it specifies string and >> fret. But his non-tab music reading skills are pretty limited (no >> classical training and he doesn't finger pick at all). >> >> So his reading would have been that the score doesn't give him the exact >> note. ;-) > > Well, he's RIGHT! There's no possible way for standard notation to > indicate on which string and at what fret any particular note is to be > played, and most notes on a guitar can be played in multiple locations. I agree, Al. (I play guitar, too.) But he's also the sort that wants to be told exactly what to do, rather than try it himself. He's a much better guitarist than I am, so I could sit there and say, "Play it this way," but I might be saying that only because I'm not able to play it the way I'd really prefer. I'd rather not apply my guitar-playing limitations to him. :-) -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/20/2012 01:54 PM, david wrote: > My lead guitarist's response to the whole thing of scores was that > tablature is the only real guitar score, since it specifies string and > fret. But his non-tab music reading skills are pretty limited (no > classical training and he doesn't finger pick at all). > > So his reading would have been that the score doesn't give him the exact > note. ;-) Well, he's RIGHT! There's no possible way for standard notation to indicate on which string and at what fret any particular note is to be played, and most notes on a guitar can be played in multiple locations. -- --- My bands, CD projects, music, news, and pictures: http://www.lateralforce.com My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio, mixing, equipment, etc, is at: http://audioandmore.wordpress.com Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch; und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.' - [Friedrich Nietzsche] -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 20/09/12 19:54, david wrote: > My lead guitarist's response to the whole thing of scores was that > tablature is the only real guitar score, since it specifies string and > fret. Sorry not meaning to be picky on the guitar-notation affair, and more of a classical guitar player here.. but this is false. Traditional notation can include fingering, frets and strings. Standard is usually to represent fingerings as (Arab) numbers (1 to 4), frets by Roman numbers and strings with numbers in circles. That said many classical compositions do not specify the fingering etc. or because a) there is only one way to play the written notes b) the player is left the liberty to chose the fingering... Lorenzo. But his non-tab music reading skills are pretty limited (no > classical training and he doesn't finger pick at all). > > So his reading would have been that the score doesn't give him the exact > note. ;-) > > On 09/20/2012 02:48 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: >> On 20/09/12 13:12, Stephen H. Dawson wrote: >>> This topic was covered in my schooling, in my last semester, by my >>> composition instructor. He is a smart guy. He did not know the guitar >>> was understood to be played one octave removed. >>> >>> I recommend either the old school or the new school way. >>> >>> Old School: >>> Put the label at the top of the 1st page, "...for guitar" >>> >>> New School: >>> Enter every note the exact way you want it played. >>> >>> Reality: >>> You will have to tell every guitarist that reads sheet music, all of >>> about 5% of the music world, that you want them to play that exact >>> note. >> >> Not to mention the lengthy (and rather boring :) debate about how >> harmonics should be notated, that is if the real note should be notated >> or the note corresponding to the guitar position (or in some cases even >> both!) >> >> Lorenzo. >> >>> Having played TAB since 1977 and standard notation since 1981, >>> the standard notation in the guitar world is still small. >>> >>> >>> What is the application that you need the latter approach? Can the >>> label approach suffice for your needs? >>> >>> Thank You, >>> Stephen H. Dawson >>> (865) 804-3454 >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/shdcs >>> >>> >>> On 09/20/2012 03:49 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: On 20/09/12 09:25, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: > On 09/19/2012 10:14 PM, k...@trixtar.org wrote: > >> How do I make a piece I'm working on sound like the guitar >> i.e. 1 octave lower than the treble staff (normally) used >> for notation without changing the latter? > There are a few ways. In a new piece you can use "Create segments with" > in Track Parameters to set the track up ahead of time so that the > notation you draw there will come out using the guitar clef. > > In an existing piece, you can change the clef to a guitar clef manually > by double clicking the clef, then editing it until it shows "Treble down > an octave." > > I haven't played with that in the longest time, and don't have time to > set up my MIDI rig to experiment. Last time I worked on that code, > years ago, all the specialty clefs were working, and setting that up > should get just the result you want. > > You could also do this using a standard treble clef and setting the > transpose in Segment Parameters to -12. Personally I think that especially if you're going to print/export the score, this is the best option for one reason: 99% of (classical) guitar scores I've ever seen use a standard treble clef and give for granted that the guitar is a 'transposing' instrument. Wikipedia seems to contradict this [1] and says the octave clef is used for guitar from the 18th century. Go figure. Lorenzo [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef#Octave_clefs > There are probably other ways still. See how far you get with this much. > > -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/20/2012 08:48 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: > Not to mention the lengthy (and rather boring :) debate about how > harmonics should be notated, that is if the real note should be notated > or the note corresponding to the guitar position (or in some cases even > both!) If it makes you feel better, guitar is not the only instrument with *that* problem by far. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
Arpeggio. That is the funniest word in most guitar player circles. "No, it is not Italian cheese; that is asiago." To say, "play a G chord" means nothing. To say, "play the D-form of a G-major chord, in standard tuning, whichof course.has the root on the 5th string", that would make more sense. I guess that is why You Tube is so popular. If tablature is the preference, then that is that. If standard notation is the preference, then there is nothing wrong with entering the notes as intended to be played, octave removed and all. Lot's of ledger lines above the staff, but that is standard notation. Thing is, getting a guitarist to do anything is rather a challenge, in my humble experience. How many guitarist does it take to change a light-bulb? 2. 1 to do it, the other to explain how much better they could have done it. ;-) I recommend knowing the audience that will read your music score and write for that audience. You clearly can do the work, it seems like a matter of end-user preference. -SHD On 09/20/2012 01:54 PM, david wrote: > My lead guitarist's response to the whole thing of scores was that > tablature is the only real guitar score, since it specifies string and > fret. But his non-tab music reading skills are pretty limited (no > classical training and he doesn't finger pick at all). > > So his reading would have been that the score doesn't give him the exact > note. ;-) > > On 09/20/2012 02:48 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: >> On 20/09/12 13:12, Stephen H. Dawson wrote: >>> This topic was covered in my schooling, in my last semester, by my >>> composition instructor. He is a smart guy. He did not know the guitar >>> was understood to be played one octave removed. >>> >>> I recommend either the old school or the new school way. >>> >>> Old School: >>> Put the label at the top of the 1st page, "...for guitar" >>> >>> New School: >>> Enter every note the exact way you want it played. >>> >>> Reality: >>> You will have to tell every guitarist that reads sheet music, all of >>> about 5% of the music world, that you want them to play that exact >>> note. >> Not to mention the lengthy (and rather boring :) debate about how >> harmonics should be notated, that is if the real note should be notated >> or the note corresponding to the guitar position (or in some cases even >> both!) >> >> Lorenzo. >> >>> Having played TAB since 1977 and standard notation since 1981, >>> the standard notation in the guitar world is still small. >>> >>> >>> What is the application that you need the latter approach? Can the >>> label approach suffice for your needs? >>> >>> Thank You, >>> Stephen H. Dawson >>> (865) 804-3454 >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/shdcs >>> >>> >>> On 09/20/2012 03:49 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: On 20/09/12 09:25, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: > On 09/19/2012 10:14 PM, k...@trixtar.org wrote: > >> How do I make a piece I'm working on sound like the guitar >> i.e. 1 octave lower than the treble staff (normally) used >> for notation without changing the latter? > There are a few ways. In a new piece you can use "Create segments with" > in Track Parameters to set the track up ahead of time so that the > notation you draw there will come out using the guitar clef. > > In an existing piece, you can change the clef to a guitar clef manually > by double clicking the clef, then editing it until it shows "Treble down > an octave." > > I haven't played with that in the longest time, and don't have time to > set up my MIDI rig to experiment. Last time I worked on that code, > years ago, all the specialty clefs were working, and setting that up > should get just the result you want. > > You could also do this using a standard treble clef and setting the > transpose in Segment Parameters to -12. Personally I think that especially if you're going to print/export the score, this is the best option for one reason: 99% of (classical) guitar scores I've ever seen use a standard treble clef and give for granted that the guitar is a 'transposing' instrument. Wikipedia seems to contradict this [1] and says the octave clef is used for guitar from the 18th century. Go figure. Lorenzo [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef#Octave_clefs > There are probably other ways still. See how far you get with this much. > -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
My lead guitarist's response to the whole thing of scores was that tablature is the only real guitar score, since it specifies string and fret. But his non-tab music reading skills are pretty limited (no classical training and he doesn't finger pick at all). So his reading would have been that the score doesn't give him the exact note. ;-) On 09/20/2012 02:48 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: > On 20/09/12 13:12, Stephen H. Dawson wrote: >> This topic was covered in my schooling, in my last semester, by my >> composition instructor. He is a smart guy. He did not know the guitar >> was understood to be played one octave removed. >> >> I recommend either the old school or the new school way. >> >> Old School: >> Put the label at the top of the 1st page, "...for guitar" >> >> New School: >> Enter every note the exact way you want it played. >> >> Reality: >> You will have to tell every guitarist that reads sheet music, all of >> about 5% of the music world, that you want them to play that exact >> note. > > Not to mention the lengthy (and rather boring :) debate about how > harmonics should be notated, that is if the real note should be notated > or the note corresponding to the guitar position (or in some cases even > both!) > > Lorenzo. > >>Having played TAB since 1977 and standard notation since 1981, >> the standard notation in the guitar world is still small. >> >> >> What is the application that you need the latter approach? Can the >> label approach suffice for your needs? >> >> Thank You, >> Stephen H. Dawson >> (865) 804-3454 >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/shdcs >> >> >> On 09/20/2012 03:49 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: >>> On 20/09/12 09:25, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: On 09/19/2012 10:14 PM, k...@trixtar.org wrote: > How do I make a piece I'm working on sound like the guitar > i.e. 1 octave lower than the treble staff (normally) used > for notation without changing the latter? There are a few ways. In a new piece you can use "Create segments with" in Track Parameters to set the track up ahead of time so that the notation you draw there will come out using the guitar clef. In an existing piece, you can change the clef to a guitar clef manually by double clicking the clef, then editing it until it shows "Treble down an octave." I haven't played with that in the longest time, and don't have time to set up my MIDI rig to experiment. Last time I worked on that code, years ago, all the specialty clefs were working, and setting that up should get just the result you want. You could also do this using a standard treble clef and setting the transpose in Segment Parameters to -12. >>> Personally I think that especially if you're going to print/export the >>> score, this is the best option for one reason: 99% of (classical) guitar >>> scores I've ever seen use a standard treble clef and give for granted >>> that the guitar is a 'transposing' instrument. Wikipedia seems to >>> contradict this [1] and says the octave clef is used for guitar from the >>> 18th century. Go figure. >>> >>> Lorenzo >>> >>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef#Octave_clefs >>> There are probably other ways still. See how far you get with this much. -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 20/09/12 13:12, Stephen H. Dawson wrote: > This topic was covered in my schooling, in my last semester, by my > composition instructor. He is a smart guy. He did not know the guitar > was understood to be played one octave removed. > > I recommend either the old school or the new school way. > > Old School: > Put the label at the top of the 1st page, "...for guitar" > > New School: > Enter every note the exact way you want it played. > > Reality: > You will have to tell every guitarist that reads sheet music, all of > about 5% of the music world, that you want them to play that exact > note. Not to mention the lengthy (and rather boring :) debate about how harmonics should be notated, that is if the real note should be notated or the note corresponding to the guitar position (or in some cases even both!) Lorenzo. > Having played TAB since 1977 and standard notation since 1981, > the standard notation in the guitar world is still small. > > > What is the application that you need the latter approach? Can the > label approach suffice for your needs? > > Thank You, > Stephen H. Dawson > (865) 804-3454 > http://www.linkedin.com/in/shdcs > > > On 09/20/2012 03:49 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: >> On 20/09/12 09:25, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: >>> On 09/19/2012 10:14 PM, k...@trixtar.org wrote: >>> How do I make a piece I'm working on sound like the guitar i.e. 1 octave lower than the treble staff (normally) used for notation without changing the latter? >>> There are a few ways. In a new piece you can use "Create segments with" >>> in Track Parameters to set the track up ahead of time so that the >>> notation you draw there will come out using the guitar clef. >>> >>> In an existing piece, you can change the clef to a guitar clef manually >>> by double clicking the clef, then editing it until it shows "Treble down >>> an octave." >>> >>> I haven't played with that in the longest time, and don't have time to >>> set up my MIDI rig to experiment. Last time I worked on that code, >>> years ago, all the specialty clefs were working, and setting that up >>> should get just the result you want. >>> >>> You could also do this using a standard treble clef and setting the >>> transpose in Segment Parameters to -12. >> Personally I think that especially if you're going to print/export the >> score, this is the best option for one reason: 99% of (classical) guitar >> scores I've ever seen use a standard treble clef and give for granted >> that the guitar is a 'transposing' instrument. Wikipedia seems to >> contradict this [1] and says the octave clef is used for guitar from the >> 18th century. Go figure. >> >> Lorenzo >> >> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef#Octave_clefs >> >>> There are probably other ways still. See how far you get with this much. >> -- >> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. >> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics >> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: >> http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? >> http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html >> ___ >> Rosegarden-user mailing list >> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user >> >> > > -- > Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. > Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics > Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? > http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
This topic was covered in my schooling, in my last semester, by my composition instructor. He is a smart guy. He did not know the guitar was understood to be played one octave removed. I recommend either the old school or the new school way. Old School: Put the label at the top of the 1st page, "...for guitar" New School: Enter every note the exact way you want it played. Reality: You will have to tell every guitarist that reads sheet music, all of about 5% of the music world, that you want them to play that exact note. Having played TAB since 1977 and standard notation since 1981, the standard notation in the guitar world is still small. What is the application that you need the latter approach? Can the label approach suffice for your needs? Thank You, Stephen H. Dawson (865) 804-3454 http://www.linkedin.com/in/shdcs On 09/20/2012 03:49 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: > On 20/09/12 09:25, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: >> On 09/19/2012 10:14 PM, k...@trixtar.org wrote: >> >>> How do I make a piece I'm working on sound like the guitar >>> i.e. 1 octave lower than the treble staff (normally) used >>> for notation without changing the latter? >> There are a few ways. In a new piece you can use "Create segments with" >> in Track Parameters to set the track up ahead of time so that the >> notation you draw there will come out using the guitar clef. >> >> In an existing piece, you can change the clef to a guitar clef manually >> by double clicking the clef, then editing it until it shows "Treble down >> an octave." >> >> I haven't played with that in the longest time, and don't have time to >> set up my MIDI rig to experiment. Last time I worked on that code, >> years ago, all the specialty clefs were working, and setting that up >> should get just the result you want. >> >> You could also do this using a standard treble clef and setting the >> transpose in Segment Parameters to -12. > Personally I think that especially if you're going to print/export the > score, this is the best option for one reason: 99% of (classical) guitar > scores I've ever seen use a standard treble clef and give for granted > that the guitar is a 'transposing' instrument. Wikipedia seems to > contradict this [1] and says the octave clef is used for guitar from the > 18th century. Go figure. > > Lorenzo > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef#Octave_clefs > >> There are probably other ways still. See how far you get with this much. > > -- > Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. > Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics > Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? > http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > > -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 20/09/12 09:25, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: > On 09/19/2012 10:14 PM, k...@trixtar.org wrote: > >> How do I make a piece I'm working on sound like the guitar >> i.e. 1 octave lower than the treble staff (normally) used >> for notation without changing the latter? > There are a few ways. In a new piece you can use "Create segments with" > in Track Parameters to set the track up ahead of time so that the > notation you draw there will come out using the guitar clef. > > In an existing piece, you can change the clef to a guitar clef manually > by double clicking the clef, then editing it until it shows "Treble down > an octave." > > I haven't played with that in the longest time, and don't have time to > set up my MIDI rig to experiment. Last time I worked on that code, > years ago, all the specialty clefs were working, and setting that up > should get just the result you want. > > You could also do this using a standard treble clef and setting the > transpose in Segment Parameters to -12. Personally I think that especially if you're going to print/export the score, this is the best option for one reason: 99% of (classical) guitar scores I've ever seen use a standard treble clef and give for granted that the guitar is a 'transposing' instrument. Wikipedia seems to contradict this [1] and says the octave clef is used for guitar from the 18th century. Go figure. Lorenzo [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef#Octave_clefs > > There are probably other ways still. See how far you get with this much. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Guitar notation vs. sound
On 09/19/2012 10:14 PM, k...@trixtar.org wrote: > How do I make a piece I'm working on sound like the guitar > i.e. 1 octave lower than the treble staff (normally) used > for notation without changing the latter? There are a few ways. In a new piece you can use "Create segments with" in Track Parameters to set the track up ahead of time so that the notation you draw there will come out using the guitar clef. In an existing piece, you can change the clef to a guitar clef manually by double clicking the clef, then editing it until it shows "Treble down an octave." I haven't played with that in the longest time, and don't have time to set up my MIDI rig to experiment. Last time I worked on that code, years ago, all the specialty clefs were working, and setting that up should get just the result you want. You could also do this using a standard treble clef and setting the transpose in Segment Parameters to -12. There are probably other ways still. See how far you get with this much. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
