[scots-l] Sandy Duff
I've now read in two places that the Irish tune The High Reel is descended from a Scottish tune by the name of Sandy Duff. However, neither Sandy Duff nor Alexander Duff is listed in Charlie Gore's index and I haven't been able to locate any reference to the tune in a Scottish collection. Has anyone else seen it? I'm just curious. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Ferintosh in Linlithgow
Just a note to say that Ferintosh (Dave Greenberg, Abby Newton and Kim Robertson) will give an informal and FREE performance in St Peter's Church, Linlithgow this Sunday 15th September as part of Doors Open Day/Linlithgow Folk Festival. Sunday is the 14th, yes? I think it's at 2 pm, although I don't always get the latest information. Thanks to Stuart, I can at least add the Linlithgow venue to David's website! Ferintosh will also be in Penicuik, Biggar, and Stirling on this trip. Also, wherever Birnam Hall is (nobody ever tells me anything!). David will also be playing with David McGuinness and the MacGillivray sisters in Glasgow and Fort William. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Ferintosh in Linlithgow
Ferintosh will also be in Penicuik, Biggar, and Stirling on this trip. Dates? from http://www.dungreenmusic.com/Greenberg/Greenberg.html#schedule : Sept 12 (Fri) 7:30 pm concert. Penicuik Arts Centre. Sept 13 (Sat) 2 pm workshops: cello, fiddle, clarsach. The Corn Exchange Theatre, Biggar. Sept 13 (Sat) 7:30 pm concert. The Corn Exchange Theatre, Biggar. Sept 14 (Sun) 7:30 pm concert. The Tolbooth Arts Centre, Stirling. With a new Ferintosh CD! David has a second new CD too; Spring Any Day Now, with David McGuinness etc., should be arriving in Scotland, er, any day now (it didn't emerge from manufacturing in time to travel with David G.). The latter CD goes a bit wild, with Frith and Zappa compositions alongside Bremner, Christie, and MacGibbon -- not to mention some Finnish and Hungarian tunes which snuck on there too. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] reassurance
latter CD goes a bit wild, with Frith and Zappa compositions alongside Bremner, Christie, and MacGibbon... Don't worry too much -- they're not mixed -- just on the same CD! It makes sense, really : - ) - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] reassurance
Oh wow, so he finally gave into temptation eh? I knew that would eventually happen when he started playing Purple Haze on the fiddle in front of us :-) Well, that was fairly atypical. Frith and Zappa and the Finnish tunes were David McGuiness' idea, and the Hungarian tunes are due to my saying that the Finnish tunes reminded me somewhat of Hungarian music from certain regions. Usually we don't stray too far from Scottish, Cape Breton, and Baroque in this household. A little diversion sure can be fun though. - Kate -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Benjamin Franklin on Scottish music
Jack Campin wrote: he thought that the harmony arose from *successive* tones in the music - each note harmonizing with its predecessors, and the sequence of intervals being chosen to make this work, which implies a preference for melodic intervals wider than a tone. I don't know very much about harps so I can't even speculate on your main question. I do like the track on Grainne Yeats' recording (now in double CD format) which is played as written in that scrap of a manuscript supposedly notated by O Carolan's son. The accompaniment to the melody is an interesting bass line which doesn't seem to have much to do with chords. I got the impression that it worked along the lines as written above. - Kate D. Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Re: More Scottish fiddle questions
interesting to have on the net... And Niel Gow, who probably wouldn't have a computer yet. Oh he might have one, but Nathaniel would be the one using it. - Kate D. Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Squirrel in the Tree
I think the reason Sandy smiles when he plays it is because he thinking about Doug MacPhee (the CB piano player) who absolutely abhors the tune. I'm pretty sure that Sandy will play it at least once whenever he's accompanieed by Doug just to jerk Doug's chain. I've heard a few stories of fiddlers using tunes this way to be funny. I should point out that piano players sometimes know what kind of chords will bug a fiddler too! - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] simple tunes for young fiddlers
I usually use Bonnie Tammie Scolla as an early beginner tune. I teach it as a song first, then the tune on the fiddle. It isn't Cape Breton, it's Shetland. Yes, that's the one I was thinking of. I don't have the music for it. I thought I would never forget it after hearing it last summer (it's quite catchy) but darned if the tune hasn't slipped my mind. I's the B'y is an easy Newfoundland song tune. The Banks of Inverness is a marchy-polka type tune I've heard Irish musicians play. It's not too hard and with Inverness in the title, I'd guess it might also have Scottish roots. Duncan Gray would probably work well, but I haven't tried it on anybody yet. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] projecting at dances
it still leaves me puzzled about how musicians fared at dances there. In the days before electricity were people much quieter than they are now? I think this must have been true. At Cape Breton dances today, the sound systems are so powerful that people shout to each other in order to have conversations! Obviously, if they wanted to dance in pre-amplification days they would have had to be quieter. Maybe they would stand outside the hall if they were having a serious conversation. When they danced to the pipes, which would have been quite often outside in the early days, there was no such volume problem! Were the bands bigger (I'm thinking about the pre-accordion era)? Probably for the bigger functions the bands were bigger. At least I know that McGlashan (18th c.) had a dance band, it wasn't just himself and a cello. Did musicians play louder? Yes and no. Baroque violins were not as loud as modern violins. However, you will notice that some fiddlers today have no idea how to project their sound because they've always had a microphone in front of them when they had to project. The older fiddlers must have learned to project. Also, in Cape Breton at least, they sometimes used high-bass tuning with more ringing strings, which projects more. If all else failed, perhaps the dancers could hear the stamping of the fiddler's foot! - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Tunes for 1st of August
Sorry for cross-posting. Me too! I replied to the Kitchen Ceilidh one but then I remembered that I think maybe someone had discussed the King of Sweden on the Scots List before, so: Does anybody have the notation or abc for a pipe tune 'Coc ard' or the song An Taillear Mòr. I know that it is usually done to the White Cockade (which is no doubt fundamentally the same as the pipe tune) - but I understand that this may be because Tom Flett who collected and published the dance assumed that they were the same tune. I don't have any direct knowledge of this dance or the tunes. However, it was my impression that the 1st of August was the same dance as the King of Sweden, and that there was a tune called the King of Sweden. No? - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Good fusions, bad fusions
Toby, your definition of fusion must be different than mine; when I think of fusion I think of groups like The Peatbog Faeries and Shooglenifty, not Alasdair Fraser! What are you defining his style as a fusion of? -Steve Gosh, I also would say that Alasdair Fraser plays some sort of fusion music. I don't know what he's fusing because, sorry to say, I don't like the Skydance CD I have, so I only listened to it twice (I know, maybe if I were more open minded I would try again). I prefer hearing Alasdair play on his own or with one accompanist. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] reel speed
While we're talking about reels, and since there are a good smattering of fiddlers here, I will hazard another question: how fast are they usually played for dancers? One organization here in the States advertises the actual tempo of reels at 130-140 per half note/minim. Ignoring the fact that these settings are not on the standard metronome, is that lightening fast or what? Can our fiddlers really play reels that fast? Can people dance that fast?? IMHO that is too fast for reels (at least Scottish/Cape Breton reels). If dancers want reels that fast, play polkas! How much variation in tempo would you think is acceptable for a reel played for listening? How slow can one take it before people start throwing things at you? Before Fiddlers start throwing things? If you like one slow, just label it slow reel and that way it will be okay! - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Lancers, Quadrilles
However someone mentioned that the square sets are not an import from the Scottish Highlands, like the step dancing is. Rather the square sets were imported from either the States, England or other parts of Canada, and jigs fit the right meter for the dance. Supposedly they evolved from the Lancer's dance sets? We need help on the details from Kate Dunlay Yes, you're remembering correctly. It's a similar situation in Ireland, where quadrilles went native. It's fairly easy to look up directions for the Lancers and relate them to the Inverness set. One might be able to trace the others. I just had out of the library: Lovett, Benjamin B;Lovett, Benjamin B., Mrs; Good morning; after a sleep of twenty-five years old-fashioned dancing is being revived by Mr. and Mrs. Henry Ford Dearborn, Mich. : The Dearborn Publishing Company, 1926. There are 16 Quadrilles in there, plus the Lancers and a lot of other dances. Here's another fun place to look: Music Division, Library of Congress An American Ballroom Companion: Dance Instruction Manuals Ca. 1490-1920. http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html . I think Peacock (Scottish) is there and a few of the manuals have the strathspey and reel. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] lift the bow off the strings?
Title: Re: [scots-l] lift the bow off the strings? I've never heard of a 'straight slur' where you briefly stop then continuein the same bow direction. It's supposed to sound very staccato. But it doesn't mention in the book if it is acceptable to lift the bow off the strings! I don't know if it's ever acceptable to lift the bow off the strings, so I wanted to write and see if any of you knew whether or not it's okay.It's much easier to bow the 'straight slur' this way, instead of remaining on the strings for the pause. No, I wouldn't take the bow off the strings. Only for a special effect. I don't think what you want is a pause either, you just want the notes slightly detached. There are probably varying degrees of this before you'd actually indicate two up-bows instead. Try pretending that you want to come close to the kind of articulation that you get from playing separate bow strokes but then do it in one bow stroke instead. Different authors/arrangers may not have exactly the same thing in mind when they use a straight slur. I just know how we used it in our collection to transcribe Cape Breton music. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia
[scots-l] Re: Nathaniel Gow
Andrew Kuntz wrote: I'm looking for a portrait or likeness of Nathaniel Gow... Nigel Gatherer wrote: There is one on my website at http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/perf/fiddlers/nathg.html That looks to be the head from the portrait in the Glen Collection of Scottish Dance Music (1891). But in Glen you can see Nathaniel's entire body and he's holding a fiddle and bow next to his lap. He does seem to resemble his father. Nice website Nigel. I have never taken the time to really explore it but I certainly will now. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Nathaniel Gow
I'm looking for a portrait or likeness of Nathaniel Gow There's one in the Glen Collection. I only have a photocopy of it. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Re: J. Scott Skinners new CD
Can't you mathematically 'correct for' poor cylinder speed control to get an idea of what speed he was playing at?. Seems that if you know the info about the apparent pitch and the apparent tempo, and one makes a few basics assumptions: such as the tune should be played in the key of ?? and the standard tuning of that was was A= 440? then one could fairly easily calculate that actual tempo he was playing at. Absolutely. Easy to do if someone decides that's the correct thing to do and takes responsibility for it and notes the corrections made. Trouble is you'd have to be really far off in the cylinder speed and/or tuning to have much of an effect on the tempo. I've a hunch that Skinner recorded with today's technology would still sound fast. At least that's the sense I get from my reading about him and his playing. I agree he probably played a bit fast anyway because his recordings don't have that drive that comes from hanging back a bit and not pushing the beat. Still, I disagree that the speed of a recording has to be way off to make a significant difference to the tempo. I think we really notice differences in tempo. David learned a lot of Mary MacDonald tunes from old tapes, some of which were too slow. Doug MacPhee has often had to remind him to speed up a bit because she didn't play things that slow. But it's hard to change your ingrained impression when you've listened to something over and over. So the lesson there is to make the effort to correct the recording instead of just tuning to it! But you have to be relatively sure that the musicians on the tape were actually using standard pitch or close to it, because that's not always true. At least with the Cape Breton recordings there is usually piano as well as fiddle (not that pianos can't be way out of tune too!). - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Maids of Arrochar
Does anyone have any information about the tune 'The Maids of Arrochar'? I see it listed on Nigel's ABC site (as a jig, but I've only heard it as a slow 6/8) as coming from the Gow collection, but does anyone know whether Gow wrote it? The only people I've heard playing it are Tommy Basker and the Barra MacNeills (and my wife Mairi Campbell, who got it from Tommy), and I'd be interested to know whether it is in many Scottish players' repertoire. Well, I've played it for years. I got it from the Gesto Collection, where it says by John Macdonald Dundee. I think it's pretty familiar to Cape Breton fiddlers, although I'm not sure how many actually play it. Some early fiddler recorded it, maybe Dan Joe MacInnis, but I'm too lazy to go look that up unless it actually matters to someone. - Kate -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Re: J. Scott Skinners new CD
I like the album as a historical document, to hear how Skinner played, what he played, what speed he played at, and so on. I have that old vinyl LP also. You can't actually tell at what speed Skinner played from the LP because, although it may have faithfully reproduced the cylinders are whatever, those didn't play at the right speed either. I mean, he just didn't play as fast as some of those cuts go. I am fairly sure of that because the key of the music is not correct in at least the one case I checked. I don't believe he would have been tuned so extra high or played the pieces in the wrong key PLUS played way too fast. The most sensible explanation is that the cylinder/record just went too fast at playback (or maybe even too slow when recording?). Also, I think they were purposefully trying to fit a lot on one cylinder/record. - Kate -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Celtic Studies 310
Hi folks, There was some interest on the Cape Breton list when someone else posted about this, so I thought I would mention it here. I will be teaching an online distance course for the University College of Cape Breton starting in the fall. It is a credit course which anyone can take. It is called Celtic Studies 310: Performance Analysis of Celtic Arts. In case the title is somewhat mystifying (I didn't make it up), I'll tell you that it is mostly about Celtic music and dance. (Yes, we will discuss the word Celtic. Rest assured that Scottish music is in there too because of the mixed influences, especially in the instrumental music.) If anyone would like to see a course outline, I would be happy to email it to individuals. - Kate D. -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Few Notes
I came across the Irish polka below, and what drew me to it was how few notes are used in the tune (five in all). I'm trying to find Scottish tunes which use as few notes, for use in teaching complete beginners. Any suggestions? I always use Mairi's Wedding in A. Works out well on the fiddle starting on the E on the D string. It's hexatonic and repetitive and most people have heard it. It has do re mi in it. Everybody always gets it, even little kids, which I haven't found with many other tunes. - Kate -- http://www.DunGreenMusic.com Halifax, Nova Scotia Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Tempi and other not so dumb questions
Re Stuart Eydmann's recent e-mail on the subject: I am very interested in the work you refer to which was done by Dr. Peter Cooke... to explain the internal rhythmic variation in traditional players which gives the music its particular lift, lit and drive. Is it available? Alexander, we have the Peter Cooke book here and you could borrow it. Stuart Eydmann wrote: The grace note has echoes of the birl discussion of some months ago. Non traditional players are often thrown by the presence of grace notes on the written page and I think that is what is being referred to here. In most circumstances in fast music a fiddle grace note is fitted in without any real or apparent robbing of time from the melody note which follows - if it is overdone then it just does not sound right. I think it was CPE Bach who wrote on the true way to perform gracenotes (presumably in keyboard music) which classical musicians often drag up to defend their case. Classical musicians see the grace note and immediately strive to give it an emphasis and value which it does not deserve or require. I have to disagree here because in Cape Breton fiddling there is much use of emphasized grace notes with real note value. Or, I should say that one hears this type of grace note often anyway. David and I notate them as grace notes with no slashes when we transcribe from someone's playing. I'm not sure how many Cape Breton fiddlers actually *read* grace notes this way though -- this would have to be investigated. I suspect that when reading music, Cape Breton fiddlers usually ignore most of the extra stuff and substitute their own expressions. However, I bet that if a written grace note fits the Cape Breton style and is placed in the type of situation in which these long grace notes are used, then a Cape Breton fiddler might well interprete it that way. Some Cape Breton fiddlers play even the quick type of double grace notes more slowly than others, almost in a triplet rhythm. - Kate D. -- Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Another dumb question? [improvisation]
This reminds me of another probably dumb question I have: Is a snap considered an optional ornament? What I mean is, can you substitute it for 2 eighths or for a dotted 8th-16 combination for effect, or is it only played when written? You might substitute cuts/birls/triplets for a snap made up of two notes of the same pitch. For that matter, how much ornamentation in Scottish fiddling is improvised? ... listening to recordings of Cape Breton and Shetland fiddle music, styles that I understand are more similar to the way this music used to be played, I seem to hear much more improvisation. This makes me wonder if Scottish fiddling used to be more similar in philosophy to Irish fiddling, and improvisation is an element that is going away as more classically-trained fiddlers embrace the music. What do you guys think? I think this is a complex question. Generally the improvisation in Scottish-derived instrumental music takes place on a smaller scale than in Irish music. Traditional Scottish fiddle music has a mixed parentage; there are Gaelic elements, Scots elements, elements of three centuries of European art musicIt's not that suddenly more classically-trained fiddlers are embracing the music, because many of the fiddlers who were playing Scottish music throughout the ages were trained. There was quite a bit of improvisation in Baroque music, less and less in Classical music. Cape Breton fiddlers don't improvise upon/change tunes like Irish musicians because there is a certain idea of what's correct and only in certain circumstances do you go beyond those boundaries. It's also okay to be looser with certain tunes than others (such as certain old tunes passed on mainly by ear). Also, it may be okay to purposefully improve a tune out of a book, and the improved version might become standard. (These are just my observations.) I don't know what's going on in Scotland these days but my impression is that there might be a crowd that tends toward using more classical techniques and tends more toward exactness, and there might be a crowd who look toward the Irish model, and there might be a crowd in the Highlands and Isles with a more Gaelic-oriented philosophy. These different groups probably have slightly different rules about improvisation. Does this sound anything like reality to you people in Scotland? - Kate D. -- Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Reel ID Please
I'm not having much luck getting a reply these days - is anybody out there? However, I'll try again. Does anyone know what this tune is? No idea. Do you have some project going with these tunes you have been asking about? - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] William Marshall
See the new tune Niel Gow's Farewell Compliments To Miss Forbes On Her Return To Mr Marshall Of Banff on my website. http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ Jack, it's brilliant! Make sure you get all the royalties for arranging this now. We're all witnesses to the fact that you've started this tradition. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] PM William Ross
Does anyone know the dates for Pipe Major William Ross? (If there has been more than one, I mean the one with the collection who composed a bunch of tunes.) Is it correct to say he was 19th-century, or did he overlap with another century? - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Circus tunes
Is anyone familiar with John Watlen's 1798 2nd collection, inscribed The Celebrated Circus Tunes performed at Edinburgh this Season... I've seen it and I photocopied some pages from it. I didn't know exactly what they meant by circus -- what we mean now? The tunes are marked as danced by... and as performed by... I just imagined that the tunes were for character and hornpipe dances on the stage. The tunes don't seem very interesting. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Johnnie Cope
re: Johnnie Cope As a tune I agree. What key do you play it in? B minor, D Minor? Do you play a set of variations? I've only heard it in Am and Gm (or dorian, really). I haven't learned it myself but I do like the way Donald MacLellan plays it in Gm with variations; my husband plays Donald's verson and says it has six parts. He also plays a Mary MacDonald version in Am and says it has seven parts. I seem to recall an old article in Cape Breton's Magazine in which Doug MacPhee explained that there are two added parts sometimes played in the Am Cape Breton setting. There was a transcription too. David says the Gm and Am settings are quite different from each other and he was giving me an outline of them (goes to B-flat etc), but I would have to play them side by side to get it straight. I think one of the versions is somewhat similar to what is in the Gesto Collection. Sorry to be so vague. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Places
As far as Dunbar is concerned, I am not sure whether I would recommend Johnny Cope as a subject for study, the days when jacobite songs were an obligatory part of the repertoire are over! Anyway the song starts as I recall - all too well - Cope sent a challenge frae Dunbar. I used to teach this song to my guitar group at primary school. Philip It's a great tune, for fiddle too. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Maggie Brown's Favourite
A really extreme case is the well-known contra jig Maggie Brown's Favorite. In its original (Irish) form... How sure are you about this, John? Nathaniel Gow put his name to it (Miss Margaret Brown, now Lady Camden) in the early 19th century I've never seen an Irish source quoted that was earlier than Gow, so I think it's Nat's tune. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Mrs. Crawford
Nigel, where is *your* Mrs. Crawford from? I first heard it played by Gillian, but she told me that it was in Jerry Holland's Collection, and indeed it is: page 31. Jerry apparently learned it from Bill Lamey. I actually recognise the tune from elsewhere - I'm sure I've heard it on record, so maybe it's got another name. Mrs. Crawford's Favorite Strathspey is in Gow's 4th Book. The tune happens to be sitting on my desk at the moment. It goes nicely with Marshall's Miss Gordon of Fochaber's Strathspey (if you like to do that Cape Breton thing of playing tunes together which start similarly). Mrs. Crawford's is almost the same as Forneth House which Robert Petrie claimed as his own composition. Maybe Nathaniel Gow reset it (it's a bit better as Mrs. Crawford's, in my opinion). - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Session Tunes
Dinkies The more I hear those two tunes the less I like them. Dunno why but they just don't grow on me. what might be a hackneyed tune to an old hand is a wonderful, exciting tune to someone who is learning. I've taught Dinkies to various fiddlers because it's much more impressive than it is difficult. This is useful in performance circumstances, although at home I might be amusing myself with quite different tunes. There seems to be an appetite for new compositions. I think this is a good thing, because there is a whole load of young musicians who are getting enthusiastic about new Scots tunes I agree that this is really important and indicates a healthy tradition. You see the same in Cape Breton. I'm happy that because of this list I can get an idea of what the popular new tunes are in Scotland (even though I have a hard enough time keeping up here). Thanks for the tip about the Nineties Collection, Nigel. I will have to get hold of one. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Session Tunes
If I were at your session I'd have to learn a bunch of new tunes! Where does one find the following? New High Level Hornpipe (Andrew Rankine) Jamie Rae Walking On the Moon (Addie Harper) High Drive (Gordon Duncan) John Stephen of Chance Inn (Angus Fitchett) The Harsh February (Phil Cunningham) The Setting Sun (Ian Hardie) - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] 6/8 tune for beginners
I've been looking for a 6/8 tune for beginners (all suggestions welcomed) Stan Chapman has been teaching all his beginners John Allan's Jig by Dan Hugh MacEachern for years. I tried it on a class I taught and found it pretty good for the purpose also. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Mist-Covered Mountains
My questions: does anyone know where this tune came from? The Gaelic on the RR website is Chi mi na mor-bheanna. What is the tune about? From page 13 of Helen Creighton and Calum MacLeod's Gaelic Songs in Nova Scotia (1979): Gaelic words by John Cameron, Ballachulish, Scotland, composed in 1856. The first title of the song was Dùil ri Baile Chaolais fhaicinn, Hoping to see Ballachulish. The original air was fashioned after Johnny stays long at the Fair. A bagpipe adaptation of this song appears on page 242 of the Scots Guards, Standard Settings of Pipe Music. This tune was a favourite of the late King George VI and was played at his funeral, also at the late President John F. Kennedy's funeral. I can send you the translation if you want it Cynthia. - Kate -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Old Woman of Mabou
The Wife o' Kelso (there was a Dundee version of that song the English version is called Marrow Bones and there's also an Irish version called The Old Woman of Wexford I was always told that the original of The Old Woman of Mabou (Cape Breton) was the Wexford tune, but now I know there's more to it! - Kate -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Chestnut?
I am working on the Boston Scottish Fiddle Club music book for the upcoming year. One of the suggestions I received was to make sure to put a few chestnuts in it. So, one of the tunes I chose is Sir David Davidson of Cantray by John Lowe. Cape Breton fiddlers all play it, but I am wondering if it is also played a lot in Scotland. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Fraser composition in Gow?
Does anyone have the fourth volume of Gow's Complete Repository? If so, can you look on page 22 and tell me whether or not The Bonnie Lass of Ballantrae or The Lass of Ballantrae (nice reel in F) is credited to Fraser? Joseph Lowe credited the reel to Captain Fraser (Simon, I'm assuming) in his 1844 collection. The reel doesn't seem to be in either of the Fraser collections we have here, but using Charlie Gore's index, I found that it is in Gow. It seems possible, judging from the dates, that Fraser composed it but I wouldn't have thought it likely that a tune of his would be in Gow. On the other hand, I never looked into it before. - Kate -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Tuning and Electronic Tuners
An electronic tuner is measuring the fundamental but what your ear is measuring, hearing, on a note on an acoustic instrument is much more. I prefer a tuning fork (I almost wrote pitch fork by mistake!). Does the ringing of the fork include the other harmonics etc. and might that be why I like it better? I think I also like it because I amplify it right on my fiddle bridge so it seems like my own instrument making the sound. At a session, when I can't hear a pitch fork, I just tune to what seems to be the average A. - Kate -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] What makes a style Scottish?
simply out of tune [temporarily emerging from real life to comment] Although I have great respect for Alexander MacDonald's considerable knowledge of Scottish/Cape Breton fiddle music and physics of sound production, I think that out of tune tones have their place in music. I sometimes witness my husband making use of notes which are slightly off to produce an emotional impact. (I use David for an example because he is recognized as a good musician, whereas I often could be justly accused of playing out of tune, I'm sure.) Alexander must be right in concluding that the absence of beats and the presence of resonating harmonics are pleasing to the ear, however, other more strident sounds also touch us by piquing our interest and emotions. Surely this is one reason why traditional musicians don't always correct their intonation. Nevertheless, Alexander makes a good point about the particular notes which tend to be played out of tune on the fiddle. Whereas I always looked at thirds and sevenths etc., Alexander noticed that the offending notes sometimes have more to do with the fingering on the fiddle and how difficult it is to play them. Therefore, it is not necessarily the same intervals which offend in each key. This I can see because for instance, I have a terrible time playing in tune in E major. It drives me crazy. Another point to think about is David Greenberg's idea of a hierarchy of importance for each musical tradition. In classical music, it may be considered by many to be more important to play in tune than to play with feeling (you can disagree with this, but most people won't pay money to go hear out-of-tune classical music and they'll flinch over any deviation from what's accepted). In Cape Breton fiddle music, playing with drive and good timing is more important than playing in tune. A fiddler could be so good that a few off notes don't really matter. In conclusion, although Alexander would like to see the issue of tuning as a purely scientific one, I believe that much about it comes down to a matter of opinion. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] What makes a style Scottish?
Pipers have the advantage that they don't have all those obnoxious pseudo-classical crossover players hanging around trying to tell them how to play. There are no strathspey and reel societies for pipers. Just pipe bands/bagpipe playing drinking clubs. Are you kidding? Just like any other group, the piping world is full of people telling other people that they're doing it all wrong! (I'm not even in it and I know this.) They can't even agree on the history of their music! When people love something, they tend to have strong opinions about it. The problem is that sometimes this turns into intolerance of the opinions and practices of others. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] The Connoisseur, Sir Harry
Does anyone know the composer of The Connoisseur strathspey (key of A -- Winston Fitzgerald played it)? It sounds like a 20th-century composition. Also, who is Peter Hardie, composer of Sir Harry's Welcome Home? The title is from Natalie MacMaster's recording of the tune, but I have not seen it in a book anywhere. In one of the Cranford Publication books the title is The Thistle. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] 18th C Guittar - pix and details
I have just acquired a Scottish - possibly! - 18th c guittar - take a look... http://www.maxwellplace.demon.co.uk/pandemonium/guitars.html Wow, that's cool, David! Will you be keeping those pictures on your site? They're great for reference when trying to explain what a guittar is. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Learning methods
... In ALP we do not maintain that learning by ear is the preffered method, simply that developing the skill to do so enhances your ability to play by heart, which is always better than playing from paper. ... On the other hand help people learn to read so they can do their own exploration of the great collections. -- AY STAN That was a GREAT post and I will keep it handy at all times! - Kate -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Rocking Step
Talking of Scott Skinner, someone asked me for his tune "Scott Skinner's Rockin' Step"... The term is almost certainly a dancing reference, although in 18th century Scotland a "Rocking" was the Lowland equivalent of the Highland "ceilidh". That's interesting. I had always just assumed that the title referred to the Rocking Step of the Highland Fling. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Shetland geetarr
Yes, after all these descriptions of the so-called Shetland guitar style, I was wondering if there was any connection with the CB piano school. They do sound similar. ??? The CB piano stuff is simple harmonies but very complicated rhythms and textural effects: the "Shetland" guitar stuff is complicated harmonies but simple rhythms. Where's the resemblance? Bass runs? - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Birlin'
One tune I find myself doing up-down-up cuts/birls on is "The Sound of Mull." I don't arrive there on purpose but if I forget to plan ahead on this tune, they end up that way, which is upside-down for me. (I don't mind back-to-back cuts though.) "The Sound of Mull" isn't shown with cuts in the Athole Collection, but I heard it that way in Cape Breton -- first quarter note of the second measure. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] before or after the beat
The only reference I have found to ornaments in Scottish music being played before the beat is in Alastair Hardie's 'The Caledonian Companion' Is it the tradition within the Scots fiddling world to play ornaments before the beat? It seems a very classical music type of approach, to me. In traditional Cape Breton Scottish fiddling, some ornaments are played before the beat and some are played on the beat. But maybe we are not speaking the same language because I was originally more surprised that grace notes *on* the beat could be traditional. Grace notes *before* the beat seem more typical of traditional music -- as in Irish music. That way the melody note begins on the beat (the grace notes borrow a miniscule amount of time from the previous note). The grace notes which are on the beat in CB music are like baroque appogiaturas and they can seem like real notes (sometimes one almost thinks of them as melody notes because a few tunes *always* are played with them in the same spot). Sometimes they repeat the pitch of the previous note and sometimes they are an open string note and sometimes the note below the melody note or whatever. As for grace notes *after* the beat (see Subject heading), that would be very rare but I have seen it notated by Nat Gow in a slow piece at least once. That's where they seem to work. I can't say for Scottish Scottish music because I haven't analyzed enough of it. Also, for a number of Scottish fiddlers it is hard to say what their influences have been anyway. They can have classical or Irish habits. I think maybe you have to have lived in Scotland for a while to know what's really traditional there -- or have a lot more recorded examples than I have! - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] before or after the beat
Grace notes *before* the beat seem more typical of traditional music -- as in Irish music. Oops, what I meant was the regular one-note or two-note grace notes. I wasn't thinking of Irish rolls, which to my mind function like birls/cuts in that they replace a long note (or couple of notes). BTW every once in a while you get Scottish ornaments resembling rolls because of the way a melody happens to go plus the addition of a grace note to fill it out. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Birlin'
Almost all Cape Breton players play birls with a down-up-down bow. I've always played this ornament up-down-up but recently have been making an effort to learn the reverse, for pretty much the same reasons you listed above. I didn't realize the CB fiddlers played this ornament down-up-down, but now I understand why I was having trouble with certain tunes I've encountered! I'm curious though, does anyone know WHY the CB players play the birl this way, and not the reverse? Tradition, or is there some technical reason? I would guess it's because they prefer to have a downbow happening on the beat (think how in "Brenda Stubbert's Reel" the cuts strongly start out so many measures), which makes for stronger dance music. Then after that it becomes a habit. BTW cuts do happen on offbeats in reels such as "Molly Rankin's," so it would be interesting to take a survey of how fiddlers bow that one. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Sailor's Wife jig
I think for The Sailor's Wife Em is a more usual key than Dm. Not here it isn't - people play it in D minor or not at all (despite it being in print in E minor for well over a century). I have only heard it played in D minor as well. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] music notation
(my pet hate is the bar lines all above one another straight down the page!) dance musicians usually really appreciate a format in which sections and major phrases start on a new staff, and corresponding parts of phrases line up vertically Dance musicians are usually very much aware of rhythm and phrasing, and if this these correspond closely to the position of the notes on the page, then keeping your place is a lot easier. But you can have four or eight measures/bars on every line (so that the phrases and sections are clear) and still not have the bar lines line up exactly. FINALE does note-spacing, so the different measures/bars are different lengths and you can adjust them to look nice. Not to mention, the pickup notes usually make sure the bar lines don't line up exactly anyway. BTW in the pipe books I have (admittedly only a few), the bar lines aren't all lined up the way somebody claimed they were. - Kate D. -- Kate Dunlay David Greenberg Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.total.net/~dungreen Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
