Re: [sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies
Hi Hiroki, all,
Thanks for your inputs, allow me to clarify below, in-line.
El 6/9/19 16:25, "Hiroki Kawabata" escribió:
Hi all,
About the part of IPv6, we oppose this. other parts are neutral.
We have to make efforts to aggrigate IPv6 routes and to maintain sparse
allocation
mechanism. Since each registry has enough IPv6 prefix,
it is better to receive a new prefix from the registry, especially partial
M case.
If I recall correctly, when I talked about this with the staff, they confirmed
that already accept partial M cases. My text only clarifies it.
We know perfectly that even if we don't like disaggregation (and I encourage to
avoid it), LIRs will do it anyway. Existing policy doesn't forbid it. Is only
recommended. So not having this text, doesn't disallow it.
The other point that you raise, this is not changing sparse allocation. The
prefixes we are discussion about, are already allocated or assigned to
LIRs/end-users, so the APNIC internal sparse allocation doesn't change.
Last, but not least. When a company acquires another, they have the rights to
acquire all their assets, and legally, you can't avoid that. Even if policies
say "not", legally they have acquired all or part of the assets (including the
right to use the addressing space).
Having a policy that doesn't allow it will not change a legal right.
About inter-RIR, there are not consensus about (M and/or market)transfer
IPv6 address
between RIRs. First of all, we think we need to discuss about it.
This has been accepted already in RIPE (long time ago). LACNIC staff confirmed,
in the impact analysis of an equivalent policy proposal, that when a company is
involved in an M, they merge "all the resources, not just IPv4".
Do you really think, you can forbid a company, never mind is from one region or
another, to "not transfer" the resources that are part of the legal agreement
that they have acquired (when they buy a company which is APNIC member, they
"buy" all the contracts)? We like it or not, this is a lost battle in my
opinion. You can't say, transfer IPv4, renumber your ASN and IPv6!
Regards,
Hiroki
---
Hiroki Kawabata
Japan Network Information Center(JPNIC)
Subject: [sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of
transfer policies
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 18:59:19 +0600
From: Sumon Ahmed Sabir
> Dear SIG members,
>
> The proposal "prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies"
> has been sent to the Policy SIG for review.
>
> It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting at APNIC 48 in
> Chiang Mai, Thailand on Thursday, 12 September 2019.
>
> We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list
> before the meeting.
>
> The comment period on the mailing list before an APNIC meeting is an
> important part of the policy development process. We encourage you to
> express your views on the proposal:
>
>- Do you support or oppose this proposal?
>- Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so,
> tell the community about your situation.
>- Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal?
>- Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear?
>- What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more
> effective?
>
> Information about this proposal is available at:
>
> http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-130
>
> Regards
>
> Sumon, Bertrand, Ching-Heng
> APNIC Policy SIG Chairs
>
>
> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy
*
> ___
> sig-policy mailing list
> sig-policy@lists.apnic.net
> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
>
* sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy
*
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Re: [sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies
Hi all, About the part of IPv6, we oppose this. other parts are neutral. We have to make efforts to aggrigate IPv6 routes and to maintain sparse allocation mechanism. Since each registry has enough IPv6 prefix, it is better to receive a new prefix from the registry, especially partial M case. About inter-RIR, there are not consensus about (M and/or market)transfer IPv6 address between RIRs. First of all, we think we need to discuss about it. Regards, Hiroki --- Hiroki Kawabata Japan Network Information Center(JPNIC) Subject: [sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 18:59:19 +0600 From: Sumon Ahmed Sabir Dear SIG members, The proposal "prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies" has been sent to the Policy SIG for review. It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting at APNIC 48 in Chiang Mai, Thailand on Thursday, 12 September 2019. We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list before the meeting. The comment period on the mailing list before an APNIC meeting is an important part of the policy development process. We encourage you to express your views on the proposal: - Do you support or oppose this proposal? - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation. - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective? Information about this proposal is available at: http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-130 Regards Sumon, Bertrand, Ching-Heng APNIC Policy SIG Chairs * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * ___ sig-policy mailing list sig-policy@lists.apnic.net https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * ___ sig-policy mailing list sig-policy@lists.apnic.net https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
Re: [sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies
Dear Colleagues, I am Satoru Tsurumaki from Japan Open Policy Forum Steering Team. I would like to share a feedback in our community for prop-130, based on a meeting we organized on 21th Aug to discuss these proposals. Many participants expressed a neutral for the proposal with reasons that they don't imagine the reason why we need to change the policy. Best Regards, Satoru Tsurumaki JPOPF-ST 2019年3月14日(木) 21:59 Sumon Ahmed Sabir : > > > Dear SIG members, > > The proposal "prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies" > has been sent to the Policy SIG for review. > > It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting at APNIC 48 in > Chiang Mai, Thailand on Thursday, 12 September 2019. > > We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list > before the meeting. > > The comment period on the mailing list before an APNIC meeting is an > important part of the policy development process. We encourage you to > express your views on the proposal: > > - Do you support or oppose this proposal? > - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, > tell the community about your situation. > - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? > - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? > - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more > effective? > > Information about this proposal is available at: > > http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-130 > > Regards > > Sumon, Bertrand, Ching-Heng > APNIC Policy SIG Chairs > * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy > * > ___ > sig-policy mailing list > sig-policy@lists.apnic.net > https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * ___ sig-policy mailing list sig-policy@lists.apnic.net https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
Re: [sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies
Dear Jordi, May we have some discussion about the proposed policy? Could you please respond? regards, Sumon On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 8:20 PM Aftab Siddiqui wrote: > If I may ask the author. > > - Explain the problem statement. > - Can you provide an example where this "unclear policy of M" created a > problem? > - Did you ask Secretariat if this is actually a problem? Did they provide > any stats? > > Regards, > > Aftab A. Siddiqui > > > On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 11:59 PM Sumon Ahmed Sabir > wrote: > >> >> Dear SIG members, >> >> The proposal "prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies" >> has been sent to the Policy SIG for review. >> >> It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting at APNIC 48 in >> Chiang Mai, Thailand on Thursday, 12 September 2019. >> >> We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list >> before the meeting. >> >> The comment period on the mailing list before an APNIC meeting is an >> important part of the policy development process. We encourage you to >> express your views on the proposal: >> >> - Do you support or oppose this proposal? >> - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, >> tell the community about your situation. >> - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? >> - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? >> - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more >> effective? >> >> Information about this proposal is available at: >> >> http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-130 >> >> Regards >> >> Sumon, Bertrand, Ching-Heng >> APNIC Policy SIG Chairs >> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy >> * >> ___ >> sig-policy mailing list >> sig-policy@lists.apnic.net >> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy > > * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * ___ sig-policy mailing list sig-policy@lists.apnic.net https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
Re: [sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies
Hi Aftab, We are dealing with similar problems also in other regions, so regardless if this has been visible or not for the secretariat, the problem exists. As explained in the problem statement, the actual text (I’m going to speak in a generic way for all the cases, IPv4, IPv6 and ASN), doesn’t clarify if this is only intra-RIR or also intra-RIR. This is the key part. The actual text doesn’t contemplate the cases related to re-organization of companies (typically big groups), or relocation from one region to another. This is also very important. Also, doesn’t clarify if this is also acceptable for a partial acquisition. I know this probably is being correctly interpreted by the secretariat, but because the problem indicated in the previous two paragraphs, I’m taking the opportunity to clarify that in the text. Now, to better understand it, I can present several examples. A big multinational operator, working in several regions, has excess of IPv4 addresses in one region (RIR), so is using some of them in another region. With the actual text, it is not clear they can “re-organize” the correct registration of those addresses. An operator has business covering transit, service provider and data-centers. They decide to sell only part of it, let’s say the data-centers. So, this is a very clear case for a “partial M”, it may be in the same regions or among regions, but there are more complex cases. A company has a data center, using VMs in one region, let’s say Europe. They decide to relocate to Asia, with a new company, because they have better business opportunities, or less taxes or lower costs, or whatever. Because all is about VMs, you can do this “on-line”, it will take a few hours/days, this can be done by several means, and when all is done “keep” the VMs in sync and in a few minutes, shut down the old VMs and keep only the new ones, with the original addressing space they had in Europe. Of course, this may be the complete company, or only a division of it (creating a new company). Please, let me know if this is sufficiently clear. I’m happy to include those examples in a new version of the policy proposal if that helps. Regards, Jordi De: en nombre de Aftab Siddiqui Fecha: viernes, 15 de marzo de 2019, 15:21 Para: Sumon Ahmed Sabir CC: Policy SIG Asunto: Re: [sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies If I may ask the author. - Explain the problem statement. - Can you provide an example where this "unclear policy of M" created a problem? - Did you ask Secretariat if this is actually a problem? Did they provide any stats? Regards, Aftab A. Siddiqui On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 11:59 PM Sumon Ahmed Sabir wrote: Dear SIG members, The proposal "prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies" has been sent to the Policy SIG for review. It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting at APNIC 48 in Chiang Mai, Thailand on Thursday, 12 September 2019. We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list before the meeting. The comment period on the mailing list before an APNIC meeting is an important part of the policy development process. We encourage you to express your views on the proposal: - Do you support or oppose this proposal? - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation. - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective? Information about this proposal is available at: http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-130 Regards Sumon, Bertrand, Ching-Heng APNIC Policy SIG Chairs * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * ___ sig-policy mailing list sig-policy@lists.apnic.net https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * ___ sig-policy mailing list sig-policy@lists.apnic.net https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy ** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, incl
Re: [sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies
If I may ask the author. - Explain the problem statement. - Can you provide an example where this "unclear policy of M" created a problem? - Did you ask Secretariat if this is actually a problem? Did they provide any stats? Regards, Aftab A. Siddiqui On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 11:59 PM Sumon Ahmed Sabir wrote: > > Dear SIG members, > > The proposal "prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies" > has been sent to the Policy SIG for review. > > It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting at APNIC 48 in > Chiang Mai, Thailand on Thursday, 12 September 2019. > > We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list > before the meeting. > > The comment period on the mailing list before an APNIC meeting is an > important part of the policy development process. We encourage you to > express your views on the proposal: > > - Do you support or oppose this proposal? > - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, > tell the community about your situation. > - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? > - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? > - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more > effective? > > Information about this proposal is available at: > > http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-130 > > Regards > > Sumon, Bertrand, Ching-Heng > APNIC Policy SIG Chairs > * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy >* > ___ > sig-policy mailing list > sig-policy@lists.apnic.net > https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * ___ sig-policy mailing list sig-policy@lists.apnic.net https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
[sig-policy] Policy Proposal: prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies
Dear SIG members, The proposal "prop-130-v001: Modification of transfer policies" has been sent to the Policy SIG for review. It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting at APNIC 48 in Chiang Mai, Thailand on Thursday, 12 September 2019. We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list before the meeting. The comment period on the mailing list before an APNIC meeting is an important part of the policy development process. We encourage you to express your views on the proposal: - Do you support or oppose this proposal? - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation. - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective? Information about this proposal is available at: http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-130 Regards Sumon, Bertrand, Ching-Heng APNIC Policy SIG Chairs * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * ___ sig-policy mailing list sig-policy@lists.apnic.net https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
