Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split

[Brandon]

This is certainly one of the tougher challenges in a start-up after hiring 
and retaining talent.

IMO, equal equity makes sense if everyone are in full-time. But there are 
times when say one of the partner only comes in full-time after say 6 
months. As long as the vesting schedule ensures no shares are given before 
the 1-year cliff mark, much isn't loss and you would have found out if one 
of the partners (including yourself) may not be fully committed in the 
start-up.

In the event when it isn't equal splitting, the partners should be mature 
enough to discuss why (perhaps 2 person took the risk full time for a year 
and so the 3rd person who is part-time didn't risk it all from the get-go). 
The ego may way equal split but at the end of the day everyone has to agree 
on the split and then also agree never to second guess again. Perhaps even 
write down the reasons why. 

I recall seeing this equity calculator. It can be a guide for you to create 
your own equity calculator also:
- http://foundrs.com/

So when you document and allocate the equity accordingly, then anyone who 
second guesses in the future should revisit this document. Perhaps even 
better if it is printed out and everyone signed it as proof that they read 
it and agree to the allocation schedule.

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:57:36 AM UTC+8, Luke wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the responses so far!
>
> One other question is how to split equity when 2/3 founders wont be 
> leaving their day jobs. Only 1 founder will be putting in the sweat or 
> grunt to generate the revenue by booking meetings/pitching etc (aside from 
> the social/search/display generated leads).
>
> How much should the remaining founders get? 1 of them is investing the 
> development resources to build the site, and the other will invest the 
> design resources.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 2:38 AM, Kevin Baum  > wrote:
>
>> (Forgot to mention. Obviously same exception for those who bring IP or 
>> cash)
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Apr. 2018, 2:34 am Kevin Baum, > > wrote:
>>
>>> Fair enough. Just my personal opinion. A quick anecdote to contextualise 
>>> though:
>>>
>>>- About 3 years ago an entrepreneur friend from Colorado started a 
>>>business with 2 people from where he was working. They split equity 3 
>>> ways 
>>>and worked on the side for over a year (past the cliff of their 
>>> accelerated 
>>>vesting).
>>>- One of the three of them barely contributed during that time, 
>>>citing how his work projects were far more onerous than expected and he 
>>>just didn't have time to help out, but would certainly quit his job like 
>>>the other 2 once they raised their seed round and begin pulling his 
>>> weight.
>>>- After a year, they raised that seed round. My friend and the 
>>>second co-founder quit their jobs and began working full-time as 
>>> planned. 
>>>- 6 months later (18 months in), despite very little contribution, 
>>>the third co-founder decided that he was quitting McKinsey to pursue a 
>>>career in politics and would not be working on the startup. Having 
>>> already 
>>>vested half of his shares, he was now dead equity totalling 1/6 of the 
>>>company and refused to sell back that equity. 
>>>- It nearly killed the company, and lawyers had to get involved to 
>>>sort it all out and it certainly ruined their friendship. 
>>>
>>> Sadly this is not isolated either, as I know of a nearly identical (but 
>>> more easily resolved) situation with a former classmate. 
>>>
>>> I guess I would suggest that granting sweat equity before it has been 
>>> earned can be problematic and that same thing can be accomplished by having 
>>> the equity held by the company as a pool or some other mechanism and not 
>>> granted until it has been truly earned. 
>>>
>>> And while I firmly believe in the power of working on something part 
>>> time (perhaps I was too harsh before), I also feel that nearly every story 
>>> of a side gig turned successful startup has to involve a "moving from 
>>> part-time to full-time" stage.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely, 
>>>
>>> *Kevin Baum*
>>>
>>> [image: AgriWebb] <http://agriwebb.com/>
>>>
>>> Kevin Baum / CEO/Co-founder
>>> Ph: 0449 606 144
>>>
>>> AgriWebb 
>>> http://agriwebb.com 
>>> Level 6, 227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney 
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?

Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split

[Luke Haddrick]

Thanks for all the responses so far!

One other question is how to split equity when 2/3 founders wont be leaving
their day jobs. Only 1 founder will be putting in the sweat or grunt to
generate the revenue by booking meetings/pitching etc (aside from the
social/search/display generated leads).

How much should the remaining founders get? 1 of them is investing the
development resources to build the site, and the other will invest the
design resources.


On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 2:38 AM, Kevin Baum  wrote:

> (Forgot to mention. Obviously same exception for those who bring IP or
> cash)
>
> On Thu, 12 Apr. 2018, 2:34 am Kevin Baum,  wrote:
>
>> Fair enough. Just my personal opinion. A quick anecdote to contextualise
>> though:
>>
>>- About 3 years ago an entrepreneur friend from Colorado started a
>>business with 2 people from where he was working. They split equity 3 ways
>>and worked on the side for over a year (past the cliff of their 
>> accelerated
>>vesting).
>>- One of the three of them barely contributed during that time,
>>citing how his work projects were far more onerous than expected and he
>>just didn't have time to help out, but would certainly quit his job like
>>the other 2 once they raised their seed round and begin pulling his 
>> weight.
>>- After a year, they raised that seed round. My friend and the second
>>co-founder quit their jobs and began working full-time as planned.
>>- 6 months later (18 months in), despite very little contribution,
>>the third co-founder decided that he was quitting McKinsey to pursue a
>>career in politics and would not be working on the startup. Having already
>>vested half of his shares, he was now dead equity totalling 1/6 of the
>>company and refused to sell back that equity.
>>- It nearly killed the company, and lawyers had to get involved to
>>sort it all out and it certainly ruined their friendship.
>>
>> Sadly this is not isolated either, as I know of a nearly identical (but
>> more easily resolved) situation with a former classmate.
>>
>> I guess I would suggest that granting sweat equity before it has been
>> earned can be problematic and that same thing can be accomplished by having
>> the equity held by the company as a pool or some other mechanism and not
>> granted until it has been truly earned.
>>
>> And while I firmly believe in the power of working on something part time
>> (perhaps I was too harsh before), I also feel that nearly every story of a
>> side gig turned successful startup has to involve a "moving from part-time
>> to full-time" stage.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> *Kevin Baum*
>>
>> [image: AgriWebb] <http://agriwebb.com/>
>>
>> Kevin Baum / CEO/Co-founder
>> Ph: 0449 606 144
>>
>> AgriWebb
>> http://agriwebb.com
>> Level 6, 227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Level+6,+227+Elizabeth+Street,+Sydney&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> 2000
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:05 PM, Dean Collins 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pretty good advice apart from quitting your job part.
>>> But agree with everything else.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Dean
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> *From:* Kevin Baum [kevin.b...@agriwebb.com]
>>> *Received:* Wednesday, 11 Apr 2018, 8:04AM
>>> *To:* silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com [silicon-beach-australia@
>>> googlegroups.com]
>>> *Subject:* Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split
>>>
>>> Hi Luke,
>>>
>>> Co-Founder of a 4 year old SaaS company here.
>>>
>>> Having had multiple experiences with Equity that led to conflict I would
>>> recommend the following:
>>>
>>>- *Always split equity evenly between founders* (unless one is
>>>bringing * defensible IP* or *$$* to the table. Ideas do not count.
>>>It's not about ideas, but execution). Roles change and become more and 
>>> less
>>>important over time. Splitting it based on perceived value in the future 
>>> is
>>>impossible to do.
>>>- *Everyone Vests* - Typically 4 yr with a 1 yr cliff. I personally
>>>have dealt with and know several others who have dealt with founders
>>>leaving early and having dead-equity nightmares that decimated funding
>>>rounds.
>>>- *Nobody gets equity granted until they quit their job* - people's
>>

Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split

[Ash Angell]

Same as everything else that has been, said except to add:

Remember NOT all shares are created equally. Getting the company properly
setup is important and you can have different class of shares with
different rules as they pertain to your company.  For example, just because
someone has 1/3 share (for example) doesn't mean you have to give them 1/3
of the vote. Many people in the startups initial days for get this. How
much voting power a shareholder has, *can be* completely independent from
the value of those shares.

Im not saying you should NEVER give out class A shares - especially since
many people may value voting control more than the value of the shares int
he early days anyway, but don't forget that this is another tool at your
disposal to help equalise the value of shares as you split them.

Ash Angell

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Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split

[Kevin Baum]

(Forgot to mention. Obviously same exception for those who bring IP or cash)

On Thu, 12 Apr. 2018, 2:34 am Kevin Baum,  wrote:

> Fair enough. Just my personal opinion. A quick anecdote to contextualise
> though:
>
>- About 3 years ago an entrepreneur friend from Colorado started a
>business with 2 people from where he was working. They split equity 3 ways
>and worked on the side for over a year (past the cliff of their accelerated
>vesting).
>- One of the three of them barely contributed during that time, citing
>how his work projects were far more onerous than expected and he just
>didn't have time to help out, but would certainly quit his job like the
>other 2 once they raised their seed round and begin pulling his weight.
>- After a year, they raised that seed round. My friend and the second
>co-founder quit their jobs and began working full-time as planned.
>- 6 months later (18 months in), despite very little contribution, the
>third co-founder decided that he was quitting McKinsey to pursue a career
>in politics and would not be working on the startup. Having already vested
>half of his shares, he was now dead equity totalling 1/6 of the company and
>refused to sell back that equity.
>- It nearly killed the company, and lawyers had to get involved to
>sort it all out and it certainly ruined their friendship.
>
> Sadly this is not isolated either, as I know of a nearly identical (but
> more easily resolved) situation with a former classmate.
>
> I guess I would suggest that granting sweat equity before it has been
> earned can be problematic and that same thing can be accomplished by having
> the equity held by the company as a pool or some other mechanism and not
> granted until it has been truly earned.
>
> And while I firmly believe in the power of working on something part time
> (perhaps I was too harsh before), I also feel that nearly every story of a
> side gig turned successful startup has to involve a "moving from part-time
> to full-time" stage.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> *Kevin Baum*
>
> [image: AgriWebb] <http://agriwebb.com/>
>
> Kevin Baum / CEO/Co-founder
> Ph: 0449 606 144
>
> AgriWebb
> http://agriwebb.com
> Level 6, 227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney 2000
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:05 PM, Dean Collins  wrote:
>
>> Pretty good advice apart from quitting your job part.
>> But agree with everything else.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dean
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> *From:* Kevin Baum [kevin.b...@agriwebb.com]
>> *Received:* Wednesday, 11 Apr 2018, 8:04AM
>> *To:* silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com [
>> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com]
>> *Subject:* Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split
>>
>> Hi Luke,
>>
>> Co-Founder of a 4 year old SaaS company here.
>>
>> Having had multiple experiences with Equity that led to conflict I would
>> recommend the following:
>>
>>- *Always split equity evenly between founders* (unless one is
>>bringing * defensible IP* or *$$* to the table. Ideas do not count.
>>It's not about ideas, but execution). Roles change and become more and 
>> less
>>important over time. Splitting it based on perceived value in the future 
>> is
>>impossible to do.
>>- *Everyone Vests* - Typically 4 yr with a 1 yr cliff. I personally
>>have dealt with and know several others who have dealt with founders
>>leaving early and having dead-equity nightmares that decimated funding
>>rounds.
>>- *Nobody gets equity granted until they quit their job* - people's
>>circumstances change and you should not grant equity based on a promise.
>>Part time is 1/10th as effective as full, and sweat equity should not be
>>realised until someone goes full time.
>>
>> Happy to chat more about some of my horror stories if you like.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> *Kevin Baum*
>>
>> [image: AgriWebb] <http://agriwebb.com/>
>>
>> Kevin Baum / CEO/Co-founder
>> Ph: 0449 606 144
>>
>> AgriWebb
>> http://agriwebb.com
>> Level 6, 227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Level+6,+227+Elizabeth+Street,+Sydney&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> 2000
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Luke Haddrick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Guys
>>>
>>>
>>> I am in the early stages of setting up a SaaS company with 2 other
>>> partners. The dilemma I face is all too common, what should the s

Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split

[Kevin Baum]

Fair enough. Just my personal opinion. A quick anecdote to contextualise
though:

   - About 3 years ago an entrepreneur friend from Colorado started a
   business with 2 people from where he was working. They split equity 3 ways
   and worked on the side for over a year (past the cliff of their accelerated
   vesting).
   - One of the three of them barely contributed during that time, citing
   how his work projects were far more onerous than expected and he just
   didn't have time to help out, but would certainly quit his job like the
   other 2 once they raised their seed round and begin pulling his weight.
   - After a year, they raised that seed round. My friend and the second
   co-founder quit their jobs and began working full-time as planned.
   - 6 months later (18 months in), despite very little contribution, the
   third co-founder decided that he was quitting McKinsey to pursue a career
   in politics and would not be working on the startup. Having already vested
   half of his shares, he was now dead equity totalling 1/6 of the company and
   refused to sell back that equity.
   - It nearly killed the company, and lawyers had to get involved to sort
   it all out and it certainly ruined their friendship.

Sadly this is not isolated either, as I know of a nearly identical (but
more easily resolved) situation with a former classmate.

I guess I would suggest that granting sweat equity before it has been
earned can be problematic and that same thing can be accomplished by having
the equity held by the company as a pool or some other mechanism and not
granted until it has been truly earned.

And while I firmly believe in the power of working on something part time
(perhaps I was too harsh before), I also feel that nearly every story of a
side gig turned successful startup has to involve a "moving from part-time
to full-time" stage.

Cheers,


Sincerely,

*Kevin Baum*

[image: AgriWebb] <http://agriwebb.com/>

Kevin Baum / CEO/Co-founder
Ph: 0449 606 144

AgriWebb
http://agriwebb.com
Level 6, 227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney 2000


On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:05 PM, Dean Collins  wrote:

> Pretty good advice apart from quitting your job part.
> But agree with everything else.
>
> Cheers
> Dean
>
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* Kevin Baum [kevin.b...@agriwebb.com]
> *Received:* Wednesday, 11 Apr 2018, 8:04AM
> *To:* silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com [silicon-beach-australia@
> googlegroups.com]
> *Subject:* Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split
>
> Hi Luke,
>
> Co-Founder of a 4 year old SaaS company here.
>
> Having had multiple experiences with Equity that led to conflict I would
> recommend the following:
>
>- *Always split equity evenly between founders* (unless one is
>bringing * defensible IP* or *$$* to the table. Ideas do not count.
>It's not about ideas, but execution). Roles change and become more and less
>important over time. Splitting it based on perceived value in the future is
>impossible to do.
>- *Everyone Vests* - Typically 4 yr with a 1 yr cliff. I personally
>have dealt with and know several others who have dealt with founders
>leaving early and having dead-equity nightmares that decimated funding
>rounds.
>- *Nobody gets equity granted until they quit their job* - people's
>circumstances change and you should not grant equity based on a promise.
>Part time is 1/10th as effective as full, and sweat equity should not be
>realised until someone goes full time.
>
> Happy to chat more about some of my horror stories if you like.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> *Kevin Baum*
>
> [image: AgriWebb] <http://agriwebb.com/>
>
> Kevin Baum / CEO/Co-founder
> Ph: 0449 606 144
>
> AgriWebb
> http://agriwebb.com
> Level 6, 227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Level+6,+227+Elizabeth+Street,+Sydney&entry=gmail&source=g>
> 2000
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Luke Haddrick 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Guys
>>
>>
>> I am in the early stages of setting up a SaaS company with 2 other
>> partners. The dilemma I face is all too common, what should the split be?
>> We haven't started selling the product yet, however we need to address this
>> upfront now as you know.
>>
>> Summary of the role of the 3 founders and the level of involvement:
>>
>> Founder 1: CEO - owner of the idea, and will be responsible for
>> day-to-day, pitching, bus-dev etc
>>
>> Founder 2: Tech Director (CTO) who will manage the development
>> requirements (time is scarce as working FT elsewhere)
>>
>> Founder 3: Director - who will bring the network of contacts and has
>> founded another creative agency (time is scarce as working on m

RE: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split

[Dean Collins]

Pretty good advice apart from quitting your job part.
But agree with everything else.

Cheers
Dean

-Original Message-
From: Kevin Baum [kevin.b...@agriwebb.com]
Received: Wednesday, 11 Apr 2018, 8:04AM
To: silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com 
[silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com]
Subject: Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split

Hi Luke,

Co-Founder of a 4 year old SaaS company here.

Having had multiple experiences with Equity that led to conflict I would 
recommend the following:

 *   Always split equity evenly between founders (unless one is bringing 
defensible IP or $$ to the table. Ideas do not count. It's not about ideas, but 
execution). Roles change and become more and less important over time. 
Splitting it based on perceived value in the future is impossible to do.
 *   Everyone Vests - Typically 4 yr with a 1 yr cliff. I personally have dealt 
with and know several others who have dealt with founders leaving early and 
having dead-equity nightmares that decimated funding rounds.
 *   Nobody gets equity granted until they quit their job - people's 
circumstances change and you should not grant equity based on a promise. Part 
time is 1/10th as effective as full, and sweat equity should not be realised 
until someone goes full time.

Happy to chat more about some of my horror stories if you like.

Sincerely,

Kevin Baum

[https://htmlsigs.s3.amazonaws.com/logos/files/000/587/325/landscape/email-sig.png]<http://agriwebb.com/>

Kevin Baum / CEO/Co-founder
Ph: 0449 606 144

AgriWebb
http://agriwebb.com<http://agriwebb.com/>
Level 6, 227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney 2000



On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Luke Haddrick 
mailto:luke.haddr...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hey Guys


I am in the early stages of setting up a SaaS company with 2 other partners. 
The dilemma I face is all too common, what should the split be? We haven't 
started selling the product yet, however we need to address this upfront now as 
you know.


Summary of the role of the 3 founders and the level of involvement:

Founder 1: CEO - owner of the idea, and will be responsible for day-to-day, 
pitching, bus-dev etc

Founder 2: Tech Director (CTO) who will manage the development requirements 
(time is scarce as working FT elsewhere)

Founder 3: Director - who will bring the network of contacts and has founded 
another creative agency (time is scarce as working on multiple other projects)


Question 1: Should costs for development and design of the website be split 
even through the other two partners are taking a chunk of equity each? As 
opposed to startup expenses being invested by each party i.e. development costs 
/ design costs to be earn their equity stake.


Question 2. With respect to sweat involvement or grunt a flexible structure is 
needed where the amount vested can be adjusted over time.


How do I approach this?

Thanks
Luke

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Re: [SiliconBeach] Startup equity split

[Kevin Baum]

Hi Luke,

Co-Founder of a 4 year old SaaS company here.

Having had multiple experiences with Equity that led to conflict I would
recommend the following:

   - *Always split equity evenly between founders* (unless one is
bringing *defensible
   IP* or *$$* to the table. Ideas do not count. It's not about ideas, but
   execution). Roles change and become more and less important over time.
   Splitting it based on perceived value in the future is impossible to do.
   - *Everyone Vests* - Typically 4 yr with a 1 yr cliff. I personally have
   dealt with and know several others who have dealt with founders leaving
   early and having dead-equity nightmares that decimated funding rounds.
   - *Nobody gets equity granted until they quit their job* - people's
   circumstances change and you should not grant equity based on a promise.
   Part time is 1/10th as effective as full, and sweat equity should not be
   realised until someone goes full time.

Happy to chat more about some of my horror stories if you like.

Sincerely,

*Kevin Baum*

[image: AgriWebb] 

Kevin Baum / CEO/Co-founder
Ph: 0449 606 144

AgriWebb
http://agriwebb.com
Level 6, 227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney 2000


On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Luke Haddrick 
wrote:

> Hey Guys
>
>
> I am in the early stages of setting up a SaaS company with 2 other
> partners. The dilemma I face is all too common, what should the split be?
> We haven't started selling the product yet, however we need to address this
> upfront now as you know.
>
> Summary of the role of the 3 founders and the level of involvement:
>
> Founder 1: CEO - owner of the idea, and will be responsible for
> day-to-day, pitching, bus-dev etc
>
> Founder 2: Tech Director (CTO) who will manage the development
> requirements (time is scarce as working FT elsewhere)
>
> Founder 3: Director - who will bring the network of contacts and has
> founded another creative agency (time is scarce as working on multiple
> other projects)
>
> Question 1: Should costs for development and design of the website be
> split even through the other two partners are taking a chunk of equity
> each? As opposed to startup expenses being invested by each party i.e.
> development costs / design costs to be earn their equity stake.
>
> Question 2. With respect to sweat involvement or grunt a flexible
> structure is needed where the amount vested can be adjusted over time.
>
> How do I approach this?
>
> Thanks
> Luke
>
> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach
> Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more
>
> Forum rules
> 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself.
> 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs
>
>
> To post to this group, send email to
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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