Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Johnny Billquist]

Clem, never found time to comment earlier, but a couple comments below 
as well. Both on your comments, and others.


On 2018-03-29 19:52, Clem Cole wrote:

below...

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 7:51 AM, Henk van de Kamer > wrote:


Clem Cole schreef op 25-3-2018 om 23:23:

A small suggestion...   while you can probably get the 780
to recognize and support a TU58, booting from it may be
difficult (I did not find it mentioned in any SDP or other doc).


I would say it's impossible. But see more below.


In another post I gave a link which suggested that it could be present.


Making assumptions on booting a VAX, based on how you boot a PDP-11 are 
not a good idea.


​Yeah, Mark has it in the simh configuration.  But be careful, there are 
lots of the things you can do with the simulator that was never done in 
real life.   Also there may be 'latent' support in the OS for some 
things.  For instance, Tru64 will boot and operate just fine with an 
Adaptec SCSI controller ​in it.   That actually the configuration I ran 
in my office at DEC, but it is not official in the 'Software Product 
Description' (/a.k.a./ SPD)  because it will screw up (in that case an 
Adaptec can not support fail-over so it was only officially support on 
Alpha/NT systems - but we ran engineering systems with them all the time).


So you need to check the SPD for the specific release.  That will tell 
you what DEC tested and supported in the field.  Anything else, you are 
in the ocean without a life preserver -- you can swim and you might be 
safe, but don't bank on it either.


Right. And generally, unless people know pretty well what they are 
doing, and knows a lot of the implications, and how things work under 
the hood, they should not try and do things in ways that DEC didn't 
design it for back in the day.


A most typical example is what was done here. Trying to boot a machine 
looking like a VAX-11/780 from a TU58 just is *not* something people 
should do, unless they enjoys exploring what is going on under the hood.
It is not supported, was not possible on the real hardware, and no 
procedures would ever expect this kind of a scenario.



The 780 family has a dedicated PDP-11 with RX floppy drives
that runs as the 'front end' for it and boots it. The PDP-11
run an small OS RSX-11/S (I think - but man those bit in my
brain are long
lost) and can reach in the SMI to load the OS image into memory
from the disk and then points the system at it.


I searched what the TU58 exactly was and found [1]. They say it could be
used to bootstrap the RT-11 [2] operating system on a PDP-11. That seems
to be the one :-)

​Could be - as I said, those bits in my brain have long ago rotted.  


Unless I remember wrong, the FE of the 11/780 does not even run RT-11. 
It runs a simple, dedicated system just playing frontend. Finding a site 
that explains how too boot RT-11 on a PDP-11 from a TU58 will, somewhat, 
explain the steps for how you boot a PDP-11 using a TU58 in general, but 
it has very little point when we talk about booting a VAX-11/780. Yes, 
there is a PDP-11 in the front end, but booting the VAX consists of more 
things than just getting the PDP-11 running.
It is just crazy to try and go with a TU58 if you have a VAX-11/780 
(simulated or not). The proper and correct media is RX01, and that does 
not become less try just because the machine is simulated. The RX01 and 
TU58 are not interchangeable, even though they fulfill the same purpose.


  The 780 and the KL10 both had a PDP-11 spliced into them to boot them 
up as a front end.   The system console (which was typically a 
DECwritter-II) is connect to a DL-11 on the PDP-11.   When typing to 
something on the main computer the local OS on the front-end reads the 
uart on the DL-11 and passes the characters to/from the host.    I 
thought I remembered that it was a modified RSX-11 called RSX-11S that 
ran on the front-end, but I could be confusing with another application.


The 11/780 have a T11 as the front end. The KL10 uses a PDP-11/40, while 
the 8600 uses an F11. (Some other VAX models used a Professional, which 
was a PDP-11 in a PC format, which I'm you know, Clem.) Usually you 
actually had a DECwriter III, but that is just a nitpick.


The VAX-11/780, as I said, runs a rather dedicated system. I think that 
one RX01 is a bit too small to even have something close to a reasonable 
RT-11 system on it. Thus, if you want to run diagnostics from the FE, 
which I think is running in a more RT-11 like environment, you need to 
boot from a different RX01, and the system actually consists of several 
diskettes. But it's been so long since I touched an 11/780 that I might 
just misremember some details as well.
The KL10 front end (the PDP-11/40) actually runs something called 
RSX-20F, which is a kind of 

Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Clem Cole]

below...

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 7:51 AM, Henk van de Kamer 
wrote:

> Clem Cole schreef op 25-3-2018 om 23:23:
>
>> A small suggestion...   while you can probably get the 780 to recognize
>>> and support a TU58, booting from it may be difficult (I did not find it
>>> mentioned in any SDP or other doc).
>>>
>>
> In another post I gave a link which suggested that it could be present.


​Yeah, Mark has it in the simh configuration.  But be careful, there are
lots of the things you can do with the simulator that was never done in
real life.   Also there may be 'latent' support in the OS for some things.
For instance, Tru64 will boot and operate just fine with an Adaptec SCSI
controller ​in it.   That actually the configuration I ran in my office at
DEC, but it is not official in the 'Software Product Description' (*a.k.a.*
SPD)  because it will screw up (in that case an Adaptec can not support
fail-over so it was only officially support on Alpha/NT systems - but we
ran engineering systems with them all the time).

So you need to check the SPD for the specific release.  That will tell you
what DEC tested and supported in the field.  Anything else, you are in the
ocean without a life preserver -- you can swim and you might be safe, but
don't bank on it either.



>
>
> The 780 family has a dedicated PDP-11 with RX floppy drives that runs as
>>> the 'front end' for it and boots it. The PDP-11 run an small OS RSX-11/S (I
>>> think - but man those bit in my brain are long
>>> lost) and can reach in the SMI to load the OS image into memory
>>> from the disk and then points the system at it.
>>>
>>
> I searched what the TU58 exactly was and found [1]. They say it could be
> used to bootstrap the RT-11 [2] operating system on a PDP-11. That seems
> to be the one :-)

​Could be - as I said, those bits in my brain have long ago rotted.   The
780 and the KL10 both had a PDP-11 spliced into them to boot them up as a
front end.   The system console (which was typically a DECwritter-II) is
connect to a DL-11 on the PDP-11.   When typing to something on the main
computer the local OS on the front-end reads the uart on the DL-11 and
passes the characters to/from the host.I thought I remembered that it
was a modified RSX-11 called RSX-11S that ran on the front-end, but I could
be confusing with another application.

The key point for you is that the 780 when it turns on is a bunch of hot
rocks.   It needs to have its microcode loaded before it can do anything,
as its microcode is stored in ram, not rom.  The system microcode lives on
the floppy disk in the front-end​.   Once the microcode is loaded, a vax
bootstrap can begin.

As a cost reduction on the 750, Dave Cane (HW design lead) developed it
without PDP-11 front-end (which was probably a marketing requirement).
 I've forgotten the complete sequence, since the 750 also had microstore.
IIRC: the front panel on the 750 (and the 11/34 and few other systems) is
an microprocessor.   The 11/34 used a i8008.   I think the 750 its was an
i8085, but I do not remember.   I think one thing is does is load the
microcode, but that's stored in the micro's rom's not on a floppy like the
780 and KL10.  But the microcode might be in ROM, I just don't remember
(I'll ask Dave if he does next time I see him).

The TU58 and the DECwriter might actually be directly connected to the
microprocessor, but again I've forgotten the details (look at the prints),
but there is some way they are available to the Vax directly, which is a
difference than the 780.

The point being that the TU58 driver in the host OS has to know how to
interface to the device.  Again IIRC, the HW design of the the TU58, as you
noted is an RS-232C serial device (basically predated the current USB idea
by about 25-30 years).


> In another post the same was suggested. However I only found three TU58
> tape files with the standalone backup 4.0.

However, I bet they that was only tested on a 750 and only on specific
configs as defined in the SPD.

The trick if you are really trying to be period relevant is get a copy of
the SPD and make sure vax750.ini file you create is actually one that
defines hardware that was tested and released for that version of the OS.

Anything else, might work, but you could be running into a number of ways
that things are almost but not quite.

If you can find something like Will Senn's Installing and Using Research
Unix Version 7 In the SimH PDP-11/45 and 11/70
 for VMS
and the 750 and 780, I think you'll find like Will did, that he needed to
have a tape.ini file (which is on page 4 of his document) that was exactly
what Ken and Dennis described in their release.   The same will be true for
the Vax and VMS.

FWIW: If you are asking questions, please list as Will does, the foo.ini
files you are using at each step when you ask more questions.   Make it
clear exactly how you have configured things - I 

Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Henk van de Kamer]

The procedure in the manual was to boot Standalone Backup via whatever
console medium your machine had.  When you got an OS update
subscription, you paid for the media that fit your machine.  Where I
worked in the 80s and 90s, we got our VMS on 1600 bpi magtape with
Standalone Backup on TU58s for our 11/750 and 11/730, and we got
MicroVMS on RX50 diskette (uVAX-I) and TK50 (uVAX-II).  The 11/780
typically got SABACKUP on RX01 disks, IIRC.  The 8600 got it on RL02
packs.


I've searched but can't find images of the RX01 floppies. I mentioned in 
this thread the VAX-11/782 page [1] which provides a RX33 floppy image 
(v4.0 of Standalone Backup) and Jordi provided [2] a RL02 disk image 
(v4.7 of Standalone backup).


I decided that the first is probably more historical correct and used 
that to install the VAX/VMS v4.4 tape. Just wrote a blog post [3] (in 
Dutch I'm afraid) about the process and now have the screendump I 
wanted. More work than planned, but in the end learned a lot.


Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions.



[1] http://www.9track.net/simh/vax782/
[2] http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/2018-March/017920.html
[3] http://www.hetlab.tk/museum/vaxvms-v4-4-prompt

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Henk van de Kamer]

Clem Cole schreef op 25-3-2018 om 23:23:
A small suggestion...   while you can probably get the 780 to 
recognize and support a TU58, booting from it may be difficult (I 
did not find it mentioned in any SDP or other doc).


In another post I gave a link which suggested that it could be present.

The 780 family has a dedicated PDP-11 with RX floppy drives that 
runs as the 'front end' for it and boots it. The PDP-11 run an 
small OS RSX-11/S (I think - but man those bit in my brain are long

lost) and can reach in the SMI to load the OS image into memory
from the disk and then points the system at it.


I searched what the TU58 exactly was and found [1]. They say it could be
used to bootstrap the RT-11 [2] operating system on a PDP-11. That seems
to be the one :-)

The 750 and 730 have boot roms for he VAX itself that know how to 
talk to the peripherals such as the TU58 .


Thanks for that clarification. Slowly I see how things fitted together.
The main problem for me is not knowing what all the letters are standing
for.


IIRC, the TU58 controller is sitting on the UBA and I really don't
 think the code in the PDP-11 knows how to get to them.   The path
 to make that all would be a tad convoluted and I suspect no one 
bothered to write for the TU58  it back in the day because 
everything for the VAX was based on either the RX floppies, 9-track

tape or the disk itself.

That said, in theory, a 750 should be able to create a disk image 
that contains an OS that could be booted on a 750 and a 780. So...



What you might consider, is setting simh4.x up as a 750 and read 
those tapes, set up the system and create RP06/07 or RM05/06 etc. 
disk images.   Then reconfigure the simulator as a 780, and attach 
that disk image.  Then use the standard 780 boot via the RX 
floppies and the PDP-11, you should be all set.


In another post the same was suggested. However I only found three TU58
tape files with the standalone backup 4.0. But:

Wilm Boerhout schreef op 26-3-2018 om 11:35:

Well, I followed this thread and just tried a part of it (booting 
standalone Backup on  a 750 from TU58).


It started OK, but failed unexpectedly reading/processing the second
 S/A backup TU58 image)

See below for details. my comments are between [ ]


The output is all garbled up, but I think some of it is:

 VERSION 
sim> show version
  VAX 11/750 simulator V4.0-0
[snip]
 CONFIG 
...
att TD0 /tu58/VAX750-CON01.TAP
[note: this is a console tape image from 
http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html]

[snip]


That are the same tapes I found. I checked the devices on the vax780 and 
don't have a TD device. There are emulators which outputs to RS232 but I 
don't now if that can be used on the VAX-11/780.


If not, then the only way to install VMS 4.4 is to use a prepared disk 
from someone else. If I understand correctly that can then be used to 
build RX01 floppy images. Those by the way I could not found in a quick 
search. However this is not a very clean hack. For me the "correct" way 
is to use images form original tapes, floppies or whatever. And it seems 
that that can't be done anymore?


Before someone mentions OpenVMS. Yes that is original software. However 
that is from a later point in time. So to me that also doesn't feel 
right. I know, I'm to picky but that is what a challenge is all about :)







[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DECtape#DECtape_II
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-11

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Ethan Dicks]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:12 AM, Henk van de Kamer  wrote:
>> If you want to go full realistic, once you’ve got 4.4 running, generate
>> your own STABACKIT in the media format you prefer and then repeat the
>> install :)
>
> Hmm, but then you depend on your provided disk. It would be nice if you
> could bootstrap it with only the VMS 4.4 tape and the Stand alone back-up
> tapes. I think that is the procedure in the old VAX install manual?

The procedure in the manual was to boot Standalone Backup via whatever
console medium your machine had.  When you got an OS update
subscription, you paid for the media that fit your machine.  Where I
worked in the 80s and 90s, we got our VMS on 1600 bpi magtape with
Standalone Backup on TU58s for our 11/750 and 11/730, and we got
MicroVMS on RX50 diskette (uVAX-I) and TK50 (uVAX-II).  The 11/780
typically got SABACKUP on RX01 disks, IIRC.  The 8600 got it on RL02
packs.

The trick is, once you got any machine running a certain version of
VMS, you could always generate your own Standalone Backup kit on an
type of media that machine could write, console or not.  Our 11/750
could write TU58s, RL02s, and RX50s (we had an RUX50, an uncommon
device, but we needed it to send updates to our own customers).  You
could even designate a directory on a bootable disk (commonly "SYSE")
because you wanted to backup a quiesced machine but didn't want to
have to swap console media out to get to the backup prompt (with real
TU58s and even floppies, it takes a while to boot SABACKUP, vs seconds
if it's on your boot disk).

Here's some information on using and copying Standalone Backup

https://www.itec.suny.edu/scsys/vms/ovmsdoc073/v73/6017/6017pro_050.html

If you mean by "Stand alone back-up tapes" the TU58 images in this
thread, that will only work for specific models of VAX (11/725,
11/730, 11/750) not all models.  There is no one SABACKUPKIT that
works on all models and there never can be.  The consoles are
different between related models.

-ethan
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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Henk van de Kamer]

This all looks fine but as you are using an old version of Simh you will
need to add 'set rq1 rx33' to your ini file. The rq1 device will not
automatically adjust to the size of the image like it does in newer
versions. Also the CS device is called RX in the older version.


Didn't try your whole procedure yet, but I confirmed the above in the 
vax780 binary I compiled from the newest source code:



hvdkamer@obelix-deb9:~/vax$ wget 
http://www.9track.net/bits/vax/vms040stb.rx3.bz2

hvdkamer@obelix-deb9:~/vax$ bzip2 -dc vms040stb.rx3.bz2 > vms40stb.rx33
hvdkamer@obelix-deb9:~/vax$ cat exp2.ini
; Try RX33 disk image from http://www.9track.net/simh/vax782/
;
set console log=logs/vms44.log
set rq0 ra92
attach rq0 vms44sys.dsk
attach rq1 vms40stb.rx33
attach ts bb-bt05c-be.tap
hvdkamer@obelix-deb9:~/vax$ ./vax780 exp2.ini

VAX 11/780 simulator V4.0-0 Currentgit commit id: 6bfad051
Logging to file "logs/vms44.log"
exp2.ini-6> attach rq0 vms44sys.dsk
RQ0: creating new file
RQ1: 'vms40stb.rx33' Contains ODS2 File system
RQ1: Volume Name: STANDBACKUP  Format: DECFILE11B   Sectors In Volume: 2400
sim> boot rq1
Loading boot code from internal vmb.exe


   VAX/VMS Version V4.0 15-SEP-1984 22:29


PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-  HH:MM)  28-MAR-2018 16:05
%BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP V4.0; the date is 28-MAR-2018 
16:05:35.66

$


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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Henk van de Kamer]

I’ve uploaded a RL02 image of a bootable VMS 4.7 Standalone backup. You 
can download it using this link:


https://drive.google.com/open?id=12USrZnqSRWelSKAWiHipyDs2qZRcuu9b


First tried this with the default Debian Stretch package (version 3.8.0) 
and this gave the familiar segfault found in my other posts.


So I bite the bullet, created a new virtual Debian Stretch console only 
system to build the newest version. Installed extra packages are 
build-essentials and libpcap-dev because the rest in the manual seemed 
for running in X11. A:


make vax780

gave a BIN/vax780 binary (much larger than the Debian one). I copied the 
tape and the above and created a exp1.ini file with the following lines:


; Try stabackit.rl02 from Simh mailinglist
;
set console log=logs/vms44.log
set rq0 ra92
set rl0 rl02
attach rq0 vms44sys.dsk
attach rl0 stabackit.rl02
attach ts bb-bt05c-be.tap


Then:


hvdkamer@obelix-deb9:~/vax$ ./vax780 exp1.ini

VAX 11/780 simulator V4.0-0 Currentgit commit id: 6bfad051
Logging to file "logs/vms44.log"
exp1.ini-6> attach rq0 vms44sys.dsk
RQ0: creating new file
RL0: 'stabackit.rl02' Contains ODS2 File system
RL0: Volume Name: STANDBACKUP  Format: DECFILE11B   Sectors In Volume: 20480
sim> boot rl0
Loading boot code from internal vmb.exe


   VAX/VMS Version V4.7 28-Oct-1987 13:00


%BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP V4.7; the date is 28-MAR-2013 
14:57:52.95

$



Success at last :). Now redo all the other experiments to see if it was 
a problem on the the old Debian binary.


If you want to go full realistic, once you’ve got 4.4 running, generate 
your own STABACKIT in the media format you prefer and then repeat the 
install :)


Hmm, but then you depend on your provided disk. It would be nice if you 
could bootstrap it with only the VMS 4.4 tape and the Stand alone 
back-up tapes. I think that is the procedure in the old VAX install manual?


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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Henk van de Kamer]

This all looks fine but as you are using an old version of Simh you will
need to add 'set rq1 rx33' to your ini file. The rq1 device will not
automatically adjust to the size of the image like it does in newer
versions. Also the CS device is called RX in the older version.


The set I had in my earlier experiment [1] (in Dutch, but the commands 
and output should be clear). This gives the same error. As said this was 
one of the experiments which at least showed something happening :-)



If you start from the heading 'Setting up the VAX-11/782' and ignore
anything relating to the ma0 and ma1 devices then the instructions on my
website should work just fine for a standard VAX-11/780 up to the point
where is says 'The installation of VAX/VMS is now complete'.


Thanks for confirming. I indeed ignored all the ma0 and ma1 references. 
Unfortunately it didn't work. Someone suggested that I compile the 
newest version and that is my next experiment. I hope that it works, 
because compiling usually opens another can of worms :-)




[1] http://www.hetlab.tk/museum/vax-11780-simulator-2

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Matt Burke]

On 23/03/2018 17:12, Henk van de Kamer wrote:
>
> That page I also found. However there disk gave errors and I blamed
> that on the different machine. A lot of the tuning also doesn't apply
> to the 780. I tried again with an adapted version of your ini:
>
> load vmb.exe
> set cpu idle
> attach rq0 vms44sys.dsk
> attach rq1 vms040stb.rx3
> attach ts bb-bt05c-be.tap
> ;attach cs vms044mup.rx1
> set console log=logs/vms44.log
>
This all looks fine but as you are using an old version of Simh you will
need to add 'set rq1 rx33' to your ini file. The rq1 device will not
automatically adjust to the size of the image like it does in newer
versions. Also the CS device is called RX in the older version.

If you start from the heading 'Setting up the VAX-11/782' and ignore
anything relating to the ma0 and ma1 devices then the instructions on my
website should work just fine for a standard VAX-11/780 up to the point
where is says 'The installation of VAX/VMS is now complete'.

Matt
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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES



> On 26 Mar 2018, at 11:35, Wilm Boerhout  wrote:
> 
> Clem Cole schreef op 25-3-2018 om 23:23:
>> A small suggestion...   while you can probably get the 780 to recognize and 
>> support a TU58, booting from it may be difficult (I did not find it 
>> mentioned in any SDP or other doc).   The 780 family has a dedicated PDP-11 
>> with RX floppy drives that runs as the 'front end' for it and boots it.   
>> The PDP-11 run an small OS RSX-11/S (I think - but man those bit in my brain 
>> are long lost) and can reach in the SMI to load the OS image into memory 
>> from the disk and then points the system at it. The 750 and 730 have boot 
>> roms for he VAX itself that know how to talk to the peripherals such as the 
>> TU58 .


Hello,

I’ve uploaded a RL02 image of a bootable VMS 4.7 Standalone backup. You can 
download it using this link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=12USrZnqSRWelSKAWiHipyDs2qZRcuu9b 


Please notice it is a RL02 image, while the vax780 simulator defaults to RL01. 
So to use it you will have to:

- Unzip it (obviously)

.
.
.
set rl0 rl02
attach rl0 stabackit.rl02
.
.
.
boot rl0

This should boot standalone backup and allow you to restore the 4.4 savesets.

If you want to go full realistic, once you’ve got 4.4 running, generate your 
own STABACKIT in the media format you prefer and then repeat the install :)

Have fun!

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Wilm Boerhout]

Clem Cole schreef op 25-3-2018 om 23:23:
A small suggestion...   while you can probably get the 780 to 
recognize and support a TU58, booting from it may be difficult (I did 
not find it mentioned in any SDP or other doc).   The 780 family has a 
dedicated PDP-11 with RX floppy drives that runs as the 'front end' 
for it and boots it.   The PDP-11 run an small OS RSX-11/S (I think - 
but man those bit in my brain are long lost) and can reach in the SMI 
to load the OS image into memory from the disk and then points the 
system at it. The 750 and 730 have boot roms for he VAX itself that 
know how to talk to the peripherals such as the TU58 .


IIRC, the TU58 controller is sitting on the UBA and I really don't 
think the code in the PDP-11 knows how to get to them.   The path to 
make that all would be a tad convoluted and I suspect no one bothered 
to write for the TU58  it back in the day because everything for the 
VAX was based on either the RX floppies, 9-track tape or the disk itself.


That said, in theory, a 750 should be able to create a disk image that 
contains an OS that could be booted on a 750 and a 780.


So...


What you might consider, is setting simh4.x up as a 750 and read those 
tapes, set up the system and create RP06/07 or RM05/06 etc. disk 
images.   Then reconfigure the simulator as a 780, and attach that 
disk image.  Then use the standard 780 boot via the RX floppies and 
the PDP-11, you should be all set.


Clem
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Well, I followed this thread and just tried a part of it (booting 
standalone Backup on  a 750 from TU58).


It started OK, but failed unexpectedly reading/processing the second S/A 
backup TU58 image)



See below for details. my comments are between [ ]


/Wilm

 VERSION  sim> show version VAX 11/750 simulator V4.0-0 Current 
Simulator Framework Capabilities: 64b data 64b addresses Threaded 
Ethernet Packet transports:PCAP:TAP:NAT:UDP Idle/Throttling support is 
available Virtual Hard Disk (VHD) support RAW disk and CD/DVD ROM 
support Asynchronous I/O support (Lock free asynchronous event queue) 
Asynchronous Clock support FrontPanel API Version 12 Host Platform: 
Compiler: GCC 6.3.0 20170516 Simulator Compiled as C arch: ARM (Release 
Build) on Mar 25 2018 at 09:12:36 Memory Access: Little Endian Memory 
Pointer Size: 32 bits Large File (>2GB) support SDL Video support: No 
Video Support PCRE RegEx support for EXPECT commands OS clock 
resolution: 1ms Time taken by msleep(1): 1ms OS: Linux raspi3bp 
4.14.29-v7+ #1101 SMP Thu Mar 22 17:27:30 GMT 2018 armv7l GNU/Linux git 
commit id: ceb54e5f git commit time: 2018-03-23T15:25:59-07:00  
CONFIG  set CPU 8M idle=VMS set DZ disabled set LPT disabled set RP2 
disabled set RP3 disabled set RP4 disabled set RP5 disabled set RP6 
disabled set RP7 disabled set RL disabled set HK disabled set RQ 
disabled set RY disabled set TU disabled set TS disabled set TQ disabled 
att TD0 /tu58/VAX750-CON01.TAP [note: this is a console tape image from 
http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html] att rp0 
/vdisk/VMS030.rp6 [note: this i a test disk I generated previously, to 
test booting] sho dev  LOG from boot  VAX 11/750 simulator 
V4.0-0 Current git commit id: ceb54e5f vax750.ini-19> att TD0 
/tu58/VAX750-CON01.TAP TD: buffering file in memory RP0: 
'/vdisk/VMS030.rp6' Contains ODS2 File system RP0: Volume Name: 
VAXVMSRL3 Format: DECFILE11B Sectors In Volume: 340670 VAX 11/750 
simulator configuration CPU idle=VMS, idle enabled, model=VAX 11/750, 
bootdev=A TLB2 units CMI MCTL nexus=0, address=F2 UBA nexus=8, 
address=F3, autoconfiguration enabled MBA0 nexus=4, address=F28000 
MBA1 disabled TODR TMR TTI TTO TC disabled TD TDC disabled DZ disabled 
VH disabled CR disabled LPT disabled RP Massbus adapter 0, 8 units RL 
disabled HK disabled RK disabled RQ disabled RQB disabled RQC disabled 
RQD disabled RY disabled TU disabled TS disabled TQ disabled XU disabled 
XUB disabled DMC disabled sim> b td0 Loading boot code from internal 
vmb.exe Please remove the volume "750 console" from the console device. 
Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: 
Simulation stopped, PC: 54C8 (MFPR #20,R0) [Note: CTRL/E to switch 
cartridges] sim> deta td0 TD: writing buffer to file sim> ! ls -l /tu58 
totaal 3284 -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 262144 mrt 25 08:55 DECNET-VAX 
FF-BE-X083A-BE.TAP -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 262144 mrt 25 08:56 DECNET-VAX 
V4 FF-BE-DL08A-BE.TAP -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 262144 mrt 25 22:24 
SABKUP_VMS4.0_1_3-BE-CT97A-BE.TAP -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 262144 mrt 25 
08:54 SABKUP_VMS4.0_2_3-BE-CT98A-BE.TAP -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 262144 
mrt 25 08:54 SABKUP_VMS4.0_3_3-BE-CT99A-BE.TAP -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 
262144 mrt 26 11:20 VAX750-CON01.TAP -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 262144 mrt 
25 10:02 VAX750-CON02.TAP -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 262144 

Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Clem Cole]

A small suggestion...   while you can probably get the 780 to recognize and
support a TU58, booting from it may be difficult (I did not find it
mentioned in any SDP or other doc).   The 780 family has a dedicated PDP-11
with RX floppy drives that runs as the 'front end' for it and boots it.
 The PDP-11 run an small OS RSX-11/S (I think - but man those bit in my
brain are long lost) and can reach in the SMI to load the OS image into
memory from the disk and then points the system at it.  The 750 and 730
have boot roms for he VAX itself that know how to talk to the peripherals
such as the TU58 .

IIRC, the TU58 controller is sitting on the UBA and I really don't think
the code in the PDP-11 knows how to get to them.   The path to make that
all would be a tad convoluted and I suspect no one bothered to write for
the TU58  it back in the day because everything for the VAX was based on
either the RX floppies, 9-track tape or the disk itself.

That said, in theory, a 750 should be able to create a disk image that
contains an OS that could be booted on a 750 and a 780.

So...


What you might consider, is setting simh4.x up as a 750 and read those
tapes, set up the system and create RP06/07 or RM05/06 etc. disk images.
 Then reconfigure the simulator as a 780, and attach that disk image.  Then
use the standard 780 boot via the RX floppies and the PDP-11, you should be
all set.

Clem
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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Henk van de Kamer]

You do not attach them to "TS". I think you attach them to "TD0" in a 
simulated 11/750 or maybe just maybe a 11/730. I do not know if they 
would work on a 11/780 or if 11/780 ever supported booting from TU58.


Thanks for clearing that up. I saw a post that TU58 should be supported 
for the VAX-11/780 but didn't see anything about bootable or not.


Just found the post [1].


[1] http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/2016-April/015347.html

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Henk van de Kamer]

On 23-03-18 16:17, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I'm sure those three standalone backup tapes are TU58 images which 
aren't really "tapes" in the usual SIMH sense of the word. TU58 images 
are a little more like "disks" in the emulator world.


You are correct! See the description were I found them [1, 2].

You do not attach them to "TS". I think you attach them to "TD0" in a 
simulated 11/750 or maybe just maybe a 11/730. I do not know if they 
would work on a 11/780 or if 11/780 ever supported booting from TU58.


Thanks for clearing that up. I saw a post that TU58 should be supported 
for the VAX-11/780 but didn't see anything about bootable or not. Today 
I will try to build the newest Simh to rule out any Debian specific 
issues or older version issues. I didn't see a TD with show dev:



VAX780 simulator V3.8-1
Logging to file "logs/vms44.log"
sim> show dev
VAX780 simulator configuration

CPU, idle enabled=VMS
TLB, 2 units
SBI
MCTL0, nexus=1
MCTL1, nexus=2
UBA, nexus=3, autoconfiguration enabled
MBA0, nexus=8
MBA1, nexus=9
TODR
TMR
TTI
TTO
RX
DZ, address=2013E040-2013E05F*, vector=C0-DC, lines=32
CR, address=2013FE70-2013FE77, vector=98, 285 cards per minute, 
translation 029

LPT, address=2013FF4C-2013FF4F, vector=80
RP, Massbus adapter 0, 8 units
RL, address=2013F900-2013F909, vector=70, 4 units
HK, address=2013FF20-2013FF3F, vector=88, 8 units
RQ, address=2013F468-2013F46B*, no vector, 4 units
RQB, disabled
RQC, disabled
RQD, disabled
RY, address=2013FE78-2013FE7B*, vector=B4, 2 units
TU, Massbus adapter 1, TM03, 8 units
TS, address=2013F550-2013F553, vector=94
TQ, TU81 (180MB), address=2013F940-2013F943, no vector, 4 units
XU, disabled
XUB, disabled


I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with using a 
different version of standalone backup (later than VMS 4.4) to do the 
restore.


Ok. A reader of my blog suggested getting OpenVMS and I will look into that.

If you wanted to be super historically correct on a 11/780 in the 
mid-80's you would could be using the RX01 standalone backup floppies.


But then I must find images of those :-). In the VAX-11/782 website that 
was mentioned there was a bootable RP06 (?) image, but that doesn't work 
for me. But your mentioning bootable at least helps me understand some 
of the procedures I found. It is now logical that some of the devices 
they create use images and are not blank.




[1] http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html
[2] http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/vms/vmsTapePNs.txt

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Henk van de Kamer]

On 23-03-18 16:50, Mike Stramba wrote:

I have VMS4 on Win7 running from this page :

http://www.9track.net/simh/vax782/

I'm using the win32  executable Vax782 from that page.

I haven't tried compiling the 782 on a Linux box yet.


That page I also found. However there disk gave errors and I blamed that 
on the different machine. A lot of the tuning also doesn't apply to the 
780. I tried again with an adapted version of your ini:


load vmb.exe
set cpu idle
attach rq0 vms44sys.dsk
attach rq1 vms040stb.rx3
attach ts bb-bt05c-be.tap
;attach cs vms044mup.rx1
set console log=logs/vms44.log

I used the tape found elsewhere, but just to be sure:

hvdkamer@obelix:~/vax$ md5sum bb-bt05c-be*
7fa6f5bfe2e49a1de37e7312e8ef9ae6  bb-bt05c-be.tap
7fa6f5bfe2e49a1de37e7312e8ef9ae6  bb-bt05c-be_vms_v4_4_c1986.tap


You say:


b rq0 /R5:800


But that is the not initialized disk? I tried:

hvdkamer@obelix:~/vax$ vax780 vax780.ini

VAX780 simulator V3.8-1
Logging to file "logs/vms44.log"
sim> boot rq0 /R5:800
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
%BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio
HALT instruction, PC: 04C7 (BLBS 549,4C6)
sim> boot rq1 /R5:800
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
%BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio
HALT instruction, PC: 04C7 (BLBS 549,4C6)
sim> boot rq0
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT fil
HALT instruction, PC: 04C7 (BLBS 549,4C6)
sim> boot rq1
Loading boot code from vmb.exe


   VAX/VMS Version V4.0 15-SEP-1984 22:29



 FATAL BUG CHECK, VERSION = V4.0 INVEXCEPTN, Exception while above 
ASTDEL or on interrupt stack


CURRENT PROCESS = SWAPPER
...
SYSTEM SHUTDOWN COMPLETE - USE CONSOLE TO HALT SYSTEM
Infinite loop, PC: 80008D7E (BRB 80008D7E)


I also got that from a different ini in my earlier experiments. This and 
another experiment at least seems do something :-).


I will try there code it in a virtual Windows machine, just to see what 
is different and if it gives some clues.


Thanks for the reply.

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Henk van de Kamer]

If this is just for a one shot deal, it might be a lot easier to talk 
someone else into letting you into their VAX instead of dealing with all 
of this. After installing VMS, which is harder for the older versions, 
you will still need to install pascal. If this is for a longer term 
project, then having your own is better.


I know we used the system for a course programming in pascal, but that 
part is not necessary for the moment. I just want to make a screenshot 
and may be learning a bit of history as well. Bootstrapping hardware is 
one of the topics which fascinate me, and I already saw a lot of "new" 
things.


Unfortunately I don't know anybody with real or emulated VAX-11/780 or 
VAX-11/785 hardware, so that is the reason for trying to create my own 
virtual machine. And may be it is hard, but in the end it should be just 
getting the idea what and why must be done and the correct bits and odds...


I thought that somebody already made a howto because it seems that all 
the needed stuff can be found. I still hope someone can point me in the 
right direction. Off course I have to study the other replies to see if 
they help :-).


Thanks for your reply.

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[khandy21yo]

If this is just for a one shot deal, it might be a lot easier to talk someone 
else into letting you into their VAX instead of dealing with all of this. After 
installing VMS, which is harder for the older versions, you will still need to 
install pascal. If this is for a longer term project, then having your own is 
better.


rom my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Henk van de Kamer  
Date: 3/23/18  8:45 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: simh@trailing-edge.com Subject: [Simh] 
Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780 
Hi,

I'm new to this list, so forgive me if I do things wrong...

For an article about the history of prompts I want to make screendumps 
of all systems I worked on. In 1986 (may be 1987) I learned Pascal on 
the VAX-11/785 (I think) on the university.

So two days ago I started a journey to install VAX/VMS 4.4 -- because 
that is the most probable version used -- on a VAX-11/780 using the Simh 
emulator under Debian Stretch. That was the first problem because the 
man page of the vax780 command said that ka655.bin was not included. I 
found the ka655x.bin in the Simh git. Later I discovered that the man 
page is probably wrong and I must use vmb.exe instead.

After searching I found the bb-bt05c-be tape [1] which contains DEC 
VAX/VMS V4.4 BIN 16MT9 (C)1986 [2]. After a lot of trial, problems and 
searching I finally discovered that I need the Standalone Backup and a 
procedure for v3.0 [3]. Another searched and I got three tapes [4]:

 BE-CT97A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 1 OF 3
 BE-CT98A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 2 OF 3
 BE-CT99A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 3 OF 3

I adapted the given ini to the following -- the complete ini with the 
same adaptions don't give any difference:

load vmb.exe
set rp0 rp06
set rp1 rp06
attach rp0 stb40.rp6
set console log=logs/vms44.log

Then the procedure:

hvdkamer@obelix:~/vax$ vax780 vax780.ini

VAX780 simulator V3.8-1
Overwrite last track? [N]
Logging to file "logs/vms44.log"
sim> boot rp1
Loading boot code from vmb.exe

[ctrl-E]
Simulation stopped, PC: 0E8D (BITL #1000,4(R7))
sim> attach ts bb-bt05c-be.tap
sim> cont
[Enter]


And there it hangs. I downloaded the v3.0 tape used in the example, but 
that results in the same.

The above looks the most promising of all examples I tried. Most used 
options which didn't work or crashed the emulator. Can someone point me 
in the right direction to install the operating system. Thanks for any help.



[1] ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/magtapes/
[2] 
ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/magtapes/labels.txt
[3] 
http://simh.trailing-edge.narkive.com/P8L1m0CF/problem-booting-vms-1-5#post7
[4] http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Tim Stark]

Hmm. I heard about info-vax mailing lists some time ago.  I did not know that 
mailing list still exists.  I submitted subscription to info-vax.  Thanks for 
let me know.

 

Tim

 

From: Simh <simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com> On Behalf Of Clem Cole
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 11:13 AM
To: Henk van de Kamer <s...@vandekamer.com>
Cc: SIMH <simh@trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

 

Before you go too much farther, I would recommend that you get the latest 
version of simh:   https://github.com/simh/simh

A great deal has changed since simh 3 and you are likely to run into few issues.

 

Once you have that working, I would suggest you search the archives of the 
info-vax mailing lists:  <http://rbnsn.com/pipermail/info-vax_rbnsn.com/> 
Info-vax Archives and maybe subscribe to their mailing list   
<http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com> 
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com 

 

Best wishes,

Clem Cole

  
<https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aY2xlbWNAY2NjLmNvbQ%3D%3D=zerocontent=ef992581-6c55-4368-a7a4-854ee42e558d>
 ᐧ

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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Mike Stramba]

Here's my ini file :

attach rq0 vms46sys.dsk
attach rq1  vms040stb.rx3

attach ts bb-bt05c-be_vms_v4_4_c1986.tap
attach cs vms044mup.rx1

set ma0 enable
set ma0 2m
attach ma0 vaxmem0

set ma1 enable
set ma1 2m
attach ma1 vaxmem1

set cpu idle
b rq0 /R5:800

On 3/23/18, Mike Stramba  wrote:
> I have VMS4 on Win7 running from this page :
>
> http://www.9track.net/simh/vax782/
>
> I'm using the win32  executable Vax782 from that page.
>
> I haven't tried compiling the 782 on a Linux box yet.
>
> Mike
>
> On 3/23/18, Tim Shoppa  wrote:
>> I'm sure those three standalone backup tapes are TU58 images which aren't
>> really "tapes" in the usual SIMH sense of the word. TU58 images are a
>> little more like "disks" in the emulator world.
>>
>> You do not attach them to "TS". I think you attach them to "TD0" in a
>> simulated 11/750 or maybe just maybe a 11/730. I do not know if they
>> would
>> work on a 11/780 or if 11/780 ever supported booting from TU58.
>>
>> I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with using a different
>> version of standalone backup (later than VMS 4.4) to do the restore.
>>
>> If you wanted to be super historically correct on a 11/780 in the
>> mid-80's
>> you would could be using the RX01 standalone backup floppies.
>>
>> Tim N3QE
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Henk van de Kamer 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm new to this list, so forgive me if I do things wrong...
>>>
>>> For an article about the history of prompts I want to make screendumps
>>> of
>>> all systems I worked on. In 1986 (may be 1987) I learned Pascal on the
>>> VAX-11/785 (I think) on the university.
>>>
>>> So two days ago I started a journey to install VAX/VMS 4.4 -- because
>>> that
>>> is the most probable version used -- on a VAX-11/780 using the Simh
>>> emulator under Debian Stretch. That was the first problem because the
>>> man
>>> page of the vax780 command said that ka655.bin was not included. I found
>>> the ka655x.bin in the Simh git. Later I discovered that the man page is
>>> probably wrong and I must use vmb.exe instead.
>>>
>>> After searching I found the bb-bt05c-be tape [1] which contains DEC
>>> VAX/VMS V4.4 BIN 16MT9 (C)1986 [2]. After a lot of trial, problems and
>>> searching I finally discovered that I need the Standalone Backup and a
>>> procedure for v3.0 [3]. Another searched and I got three tapes [4]:
>>>
>>> BE-CT97A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 1 OF 3
>>> BE-CT98A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 2 OF 3
>>> BE-CT99A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 3 OF 3
>>>
>>> I adapted the given ini to the following -- the complete ini with the
>>> same
>>> adaptions don't give any difference:
>>>
>>> load vmb.exe
>>> set rp0 rp06
>>> set rp1 rp06
>>> attach rp0 stb40.rp6
>>> set console log=logs/vms44.log
>>>
>>> Then the procedure:
>>>
>>> hvdkamer@obelix:~/vax$ vax780 vax780.ini
>>>
>>> VAX780 simulator V3.8-1
>>> Overwrite last track? [N]
>>> Logging to file "logs/vms44.log"
>>> sim> boot rp1
>>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe
>>>
>>> [ctrl-E]
>>> Simulation stopped, PC: 0E8D (BITL #1000,4(R7))
>>> sim> attach ts bb-bt05c-be.tap
>>> sim> cont
>>> [Enter]
>>>
>>>
>>> And there it hangs. I downloaded the v3.0 tape used in the example, but
>>> that results in the same.
>>>
>>> The above looks the most promising of all examples I tried. Most used
>>> options which didn't work or crashed the emulator. Can someone point me
>>> in
>>> the right direction to install the operating system. Thanks for any
>>> help.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/magtapes/
>>> [2] ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/
>>> magtapes/labels.txt
>>> [3] http://simh.trailing-edge.narkive.com/P8L1m0CF/problem-booti
>>> ng-vms-1-5#post7
>>> [4] http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Henk van de Kamer
>>> http://www.vandekamer.com/
>>> http://www.hetlab.tk/
>>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Mike Stramba]

I have VMS4 on Win7 running from this page :

http://www.9track.net/simh/vax782/

I'm using the win32  executable Vax782 from that page.

I haven't tried compiling the 782 on a Linux box yet.

Mike

On 3/23/18, Tim Shoppa  wrote:
> I'm sure those three standalone backup tapes are TU58 images which aren't
> really "tapes" in the usual SIMH sense of the word. TU58 images are a
> little more like "disks" in the emulator world.
>
> You do not attach them to "TS". I think you attach them to "TD0" in a
> simulated 11/750 or maybe just maybe a 11/730. I do not know if they would
> work on a 11/780 or if 11/780 ever supported booting from TU58.
>
> I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with using a different
> version of standalone backup (later than VMS 4.4) to do the restore.
>
> If you wanted to be super historically correct on a 11/780 in the mid-80's
> you would could be using the RX01 standalone backup floppies.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Henk van de Kamer 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm new to this list, so forgive me if I do things wrong...
>>
>> For an article about the history of prompts I want to make screendumps of
>> all systems I worked on. In 1986 (may be 1987) I learned Pascal on the
>> VAX-11/785 (I think) on the university.
>>
>> So two days ago I started a journey to install VAX/VMS 4.4 -- because
>> that
>> is the most probable version used -- on a VAX-11/780 using the Simh
>> emulator under Debian Stretch. That was the first problem because the man
>> page of the vax780 command said that ka655.bin was not included. I found
>> the ka655x.bin in the Simh git. Later I discovered that the man page is
>> probably wrong and I must use vmb.exe instead.
>>
>> After searching I found the bb-bt05c-be tape [1] which contains DEC
>> VAX/VMS V4.4 BIN 16MT9 (C)1986 [2]. After a lot of trial, problems and
>> searching I finally discovered that I need the Standalone Backup and a
>> procedure for v3.0 [3]. Another searched and I got three tapes [4]:
>>
>> BE-CT97A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 1 OF 3
>> BE-CT98A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 2 OF 3
>> BE-CT99A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 3 OF 3
>>
>> I adapted the given ini to the following -- the complete ini with the
>> same
>> adaptions don't give any difference:
>>
>> load vmb.exe
>> set rp0 rp06
>> set rp1 rp06
>> attach rp0 stb40.rp6
>> set console log=logs/vms44.log
>>
>> Then the procedure:
>>
>> hvdkamer@obelix:~/vax$ vax780 vax780.ini
>>
>> VAX780 simulator V3.8-1
>> Overwrite last track? [N]
>> Logging to file "logs/vms44.log"
>> sim> boot rp1
>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe
>>
>> [ctrl-E]
>> Simulation stopped, PC: 0E8D (BITL #1000,4(R7))
>> sim> attach ts bb-bt05c-be.tap
>> sim> cont
>> [Enter]
>>
>>
>> And there it hangs. I downloaded the v3.0 tape used in the example, but
>> that results in the same.
>>
>> The above looks the most promising of all examples I tried. Most used
>> options which didn't work or crashed the emulator. Can someone point me
>> in
>> the right direction to install the operating system. Thanks for any help.
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/magtapes/
>> [2] ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/
>> magtapes/labels.txt
>> [3] http://simh.trailing-edge.narkive.com/P8L1m0CF/problem-booti
>> ng-vms-1-5#post7
>> [4] http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html
>>
>> --
>>
>> Henk van de Kamer
>> http://www.vandekamer.com/
>> http://www.hetlab.tk/
>> ___
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Tim Shoppa]

I'm sure those three standalone backup tapes are TU58 images which aren't
really "tapes" in the usual SIMH sense of the word. TU58 images are a
little more like "disks" in the emulator world.

You do not attach them to "TS". I think you attach them to "TD0" in a
simulated 11/750 or maybe just maybe a 11/730. I do not know if they would
work on a 11/780 or if 11/780 ever supported booting from TU58.

I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with using a different
version of standalone backup (later than VMS 4.4) to do the restore.

If you wanted to be super historically correct on a 11/780 in the mid-80's
you would could be using the RX01 standalone backup floppies.

Tim N3QE



On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Henk van de Kamer 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm new to this list, so forgive me if I do things wrong...
>
> For an article about the history of prompts I want to make screendumps of
> all systems I worked on. In 1986 (may be 1987) I learned Pascal on the
> VAX-11/785 (I think) on the university.
>
> So two days ago I started a journey to install VAX/VMS 4.4 -- because that
> is the most probable version used -- on a VAX-11/780 using the Simh
> emulator under Debian Stretch. That was the first problem because the man
> page of the vax780 command said that ka655.bin was not included. I found
> the ka655x.bin in the Simh git. Later I discovered that the man page is
> probably wrong and I must use vmb.exe instead.
>
> After searching I found the bb-bt05c-be tape [1] which contains DEC
> VAX/VMS V4.4 BIN 16MT9 (C)1986 [2]. After a lot of trial, problems and
> searching I finally discovered that I need the Standalone Backup and a
> procedure for v3.0 [3]. Another searched and I got three tapes [4]:
>
> BE-CT97A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 1 OF 3
> BE-CT98A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 2 OF 3
> BE-CT99A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 3 OF 3
>
> I adapted the given ini to the following -- the complete ini with the same
> adaptions don't give any difference:
>
> load vmb.exe
> set rp0 rp06
> set rp1 rp06
> attach rp0 stb40.rp6
> set console log=logs/vms44.log
>
> Then the procedure:
>
> hvdkamer@obelix:~/vax$ vax780 vax780.ini
>
> VAX780 simulator V3.8-1
> Overwrite last track? [N]
> Logging to file "logs/vms44.log"
> sim> boot rp1
> Loading boot code from vmb.exe
>
> [ctrl-E]
> Simulation stopped, PC: 0E8D (BITL #1000,4(R7))
> sim> attach ts bb-bt05c-be.tap
> sim> cont
> [Enter]
>
>
> And there it hangs. I downloaded the v3.0 tape used in the example, but
> that results in the same.
>
> The above looks the most promising of all examples I tried. Most used
> options which didn't work or crashed the emulator. Can someone point me in
> the right direction to install the operating system. Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
> [1] ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/magtapes/
> [2] ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/
> magtapes/labels.txt
> [3] http://simh.trailing-edge.narkive.com/P8L1m0CF/problem-booti
> ng-vms-1-5#post7
> [4] http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html
>
> --
>
> Henk van de Kamer
> http://www.vandekamer.com/
> http://www.hetlab.tk/
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
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Re: [Simh] Install VAX/VMS 4.4 on a simulated VAX-11/780

[Clem Cole]

Before you go too much farther, I would recommend that you get the latest
version of simh:   https://github.com/simh/simh
A great deal has changed since simh 3 and you are likely to run into few
issues.

Once you have that working, I would suggest you search the archives of the
info-vax mailing lists: Info-vax Archives
 and maybe subscribe to
their mailing list  http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com

Best wishes,
Clem Cole
ᐧ

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Henk van de Kamer 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm new to this list, so forgive me if I do things wrong...
>
> For an article about the history of prompts I want to make screendumps of
> all systems I worked on. In 1986 (may be 1987) I learned Pascal on the
> VAX-11/785 (I think) on the university.
>
> So two days ago I started a journey to install VAX/VMS 4.4 -- because that
> is the most probable version used -- on a VAX-11/780 using the Simh
> emulator under Debian Stretch. That was the first problem because the man
> page of the vax780 command said that ka655.bin was not included. I found
> the ka655x.bin in the Simh git. Later I discovered that the man page is
> probably wrong and I must use vmb.exe instead.
>
> After searching I found the bb-bt05c-be tape [1] which contains DEC
> VAX/VMS V4.4 BIN 16MT9 (C)1986 [2]. After a lot of trial, problems and
> searching I finally discovered that I need the Standalone Backup and a
> procedure for v3.0 [3]. Another searched and I got three tapes [4]:
>
> BE-CT97A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 1 OF 3
> BE-CT98A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 2 OF 3
> BE-CT99A-BE - VAX/VMS V4.0 STANDALONE BACKUP 3 OF 3
>
> I adapted the given ini to the following -- the complete ini with the same
> adaptions don't give any difference:
>
> load vmb.exe
> set rp0 rp06
> set rp1 rp06
> attach rp0 stb40.rp6
> set console log=logs/vms44.log
>
> Then the procedure:
>
> hvdkamer@obelix:~/vax$ vax780 vax780.ini
>
> VAX780 simulator V3.8-1
> Overwrite last track? [N]
> Logging to file "logs/vms44.log"
> sim> boot rp1
> Loading boot code from vmb.exe
>
> [ctrl-E]
> Simulation stopped, PC: 0E8D (BITL #1000,4(R7))
> sim> attach ts bb-bt05c-be.tap
> sim> cont
> [Enter]
>
>
> And there it hangs. I downloaded the v3.0 tape used in the example, but
> that results in the same.
>
> The above looks the most promising of all examples I tried. Most used
> options which didn't work or crashed the emulator. Can someone point me in
> the right direction to install the operating system. Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
> [1] ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/magtapes/
> [2] ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/dec/vax/sw/magt
> apes/labels.txt
> [3] http://simh.trailing-edge.narkive.com/P8L1m0CF/problem-booti
> ng-vms-1-5#post7
> [4] http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html
>
> --
>
> Henk van de Kamer
> http://www.vandekamer.com/
> http://www.hetlab.tk/
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh


ᐧ
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