Re: Future of an Open Phone - Diner at FSOSHRUDCON
Hello, So we discussed some of this stuff on IRC with Stefan, on the 2nd of April. Sorry, to not have written this mail before, I'm kinda busy these weeks. It seems we did aggree to let the dinner stay informal. Rather we would like to split the saturday afternoon, as it appears obvious that we won't do code extensively. So if people here are OK, let's split the afternoon in two: - 2h or 2h30 to discuss collaboratively about the future of an open phone - 3h30 or 4h00 to have a hardware workshop and a design workshop in parallel. One question is would we like the discussion to happen before the workshops or the contrary. We must think of this based on tiredness of people. So for me the discussion should happen first. I think we should track some design subjects now before the convention happens. And also the talks in the morning may have oriented also the way we design as the goaled architectures of FSO and SHR might be clearer for everybody. I'll write a dedicated mail for the talks. Best regards, Didier. Stefan Schmidt wrote: Hello. On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 20:05, Didier Ptitjes wrote: Stefan Schmidt wrote: I changed the normal dine on saturday to the catchy name Future of an Open Phone - Diner. Question we like to discuss there are less in the area of middleware and application, the whole conf is about it, but about openess of mobile phones on a hardware/kernel/business level. What does Openmoko offer us? What alternatives are available? For which phones there are reverse-engineering projects out there? What is the status of them? Does they make sense? Any other vendor coming out with open phones? Develop a new one? Strangely, this is the kind of things I would have liked to discuss more extensively during the saturday afternoon. No problem for me. You must understand that I don't think coding in an afternoon. I don't like coding run because most of the time this lead to things to rewrite. I would be ok for collaborative design, but I'm quite sure I won't code anything. In fact, I code enough during the year and having the opportunity to meet you all I don't want to be in front of my screen. As I understood it, Ainulindale may be of my opinion. The workshop I like to see there are also not about doing monkey work coding. I was thinking about working in a group on some ideas which often would include some coding for demo purpose, etc. Hardware workshoping is ok for me because hardware moding needs to be made along to competent people and this is the opportunity. I'm wondering how much hardware workshops we will really have. Buzz fixing is more a offer then a real workshop. Y-Cable would be one. Anything else? In place of coding, I would have been glad if we could have some discussions or collaborative design. Yeah, that is the same here. We should use the time we spent together wisely. That brings me to the program. Do we have someone volunteering getting some speakers and a schedule up? No need to plan every detail, but one person in charge for the coordination would be good imho. This and more is likely to be discussed. Location is unknown yet. Depending on the number of interested people we should search for a suiting location. Do you mean a restaurant ? Really I would have tought we would do a barbecue friendshiply and surely we would talk of the future of an open phone (as we may do all the weekend) but also of other things but without any formality, thus not in group, but enabling people moving from one to another. Restaurant is not a must. Barbecue would be nice if the weather is good. What I like to see is a date and place where the people could sit together and talk about it. Not between two other chats, peopling singing, people come and go every minute and you have to repeat things, etc. I truly believe that you need some sort of good setting around you to get something done. Personally I hope we get some things sorted out this weekend and plan for the future. I would be sad when everything we got done was to know the faces of the other people and drunk beer. But hey, I know other people often feel that I make things overcomplicate and overplan stuff. I can step back, it's not easy but also not a big deal. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
Re: Three different databases for gsm celltower locations
Hello. On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 02:42, Thomas Landspurg wrote: The good news is that we are communicating and discussing while progressing slowly. With Sebastian of CellHunter, we basically agree that Cell Hunter would upload is cells to OpenCellID while maintaining their own database for the purpose of the game. OK With Onen one of the idea (in my view, but Onen to confirm ) is that to enable a the GPS Logger to be connected to OpenCellID to upload cell informations directly. Now, the main part remains the positionning of OpenBMap. The main difference (in my view) between OpenBMap and OpenCellID is that OpenBMap is more focused on getting accuracy for cells , while we (OpenCellID) are more concerned about having the biggest and complete coverage. Having a good coverage is as important as having quality measurements. What is about these fields in the db to store informations about the quality. Are you willing to add them? What about wifi accesspoints? Are you willing to add such things, too? regards Stefan Schmidt ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
Re: Three different databases for gsm celltower locations
Hello. On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 12:02, Sebastian Hammerl wrote: like Thomas said I will submit the data of cellhunter to opencellid while keeping my own db for more game data. So opencellid will be the main source for cell information and I think this is the best solution because it is just the largest db. Congrats to thomas for the huge growths in the last weeks. Wrote it before. Good coverage is great, but not if we buy this by letting some quality data and possibilities like wifi APs aside. If this could be added to openceelid I aggree that openbmpa should merge their db into it and use that one as basis for the webservices they use. At this time I do note have the time to submit the data because I have to finish my master thesis until mid of may. But after that I promise to upload new cellhunter cells periodically. Please also integrate Jan's patches for newer FSO releases when you reach the free-time slot. A FSO approach for getting cell information should query opencellid. Perhaps Thomas should think about to transfer the db to a faster server I have some troubles sometimes to reach the site. Perhaps we should set up a mirror at the openmoko servers or something else. But these should be problems for the future. I think we should prefer a way to have the db on the device itself. Onen gave some hints why. That of course includes a way to sync new data to the device. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
Re: Three different databases for gsm celltower locations
Hello. On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 15:24, Onen wrote: Sebastian Hammerl wrote: I will talk from my part the client code. I know you have little time right now for a collaborating project. But I think we have much better to do than duplicating this aspect. If you would agree on coding on the same soft, we would save a lot of time. I am thinking about internationalisation of the code, etc... While talking about the client code. Sebastian, what do you think about the idea to adding wifi AP's to your game concept? Same db, perhaps some a bit different schema for the game-points. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
Re: Three different databases for gsm celltower locations
Hello. On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 15:03, Onen wrote: Another point is the other signals than GSM. Our initial vision was to build a database of communicating objects, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc... Can anybody give me some ideas how BT should be useful here? From what I know there are very little fixed BT accesspoints around. Likely to be killed by wifi anyway. I associate with bluetooth something that is mobile itself therefor not useful to get an idea rom your current location from. May be good to add Jan to the thread, as he has started work on the databases? Jan should be on the ml's already. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
Re: Three different databases for gsm celltower locations
Hi, Stefan Schmidt wrote: On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 15:03, Onen wrote: Another point is the other signals than GSM. Our initial vision was to build a database of communicating objects, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc... Can anybody give me some ideas how BT should be useful here? From what I know there are very little fixed BT accesspoints around. Likely to be killed by wifi anyway. I associate with bluetooth something that is mobile itself therefor not useful to get an idea rom your current location from. Well maybe Bluetooth was not the best example. I wanted to put the emphasis that the original idea of openBmap was to get a map of all communicating objects (RFID, future things, ...). Nevertheless here are some examples of static BT points we may encounter pretty soon: * some experiments have been carried on in Paris subway about BT beacons which help blind people find their ways in the labyrinth. They have a special device at the ear, which says where they are, and if they go in the wrong direction, etc... * ad panels in the subway, or on the street, may have bluetooth to distribute details to phones * in Paris, there are BT stations on the street, you can get connected to with your phone, and download maps and or details of the area you currently are. A reason why BT may still last over WiFi may be the power needed to have BT on in comparison of WiFi, don't you think? If anybody sees more examples... Onen ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
Re: Three different databases for gsm celltower locations
Onen onen...@free.fr writes: A reason why BT may still last over WiFi may be the power needed to have BT on in comparison of WiFi, don't you think? What about digital radio broadcasting stations or RDS information from regular radios? -Timo ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
[FSOSHRUDCON] Call for talks!
Hello all, [So as we spoke with Stefan on IRC, I volunteer to coordinate the effort to set up a wonderfull event. This is my first action in this way, but not the last. I won't let you sleep ;)] This is a reminder to say that we have time for 8x 30mn talks at FSOSHR'09. Mickey has already set one for sure: freesmartphone.org -- Past, Present, Future. I put it as the first talk after the welcome words. So I'll recall here the subjects proposed on the wiki page. I would like you all to add +1 -1 in order that we can determine what you want. Also please feel free to add your other ideas|desires for talks. What could you speak about ? what would you like to hear about ?? - State of the art talk (what happened and where we are - mickeyl, Ainulindale ?) So it seems that this one is in part filled by the freesmartphone.org -- Past, Present, Future of mickeyl. I would be glad if Ainulindale could make a similar talk for SHR. Then things would be set up correctly for the continuation of the convention - SHR vs. Paroli; SHR + Paroli - Target Hardware for FSO and SHR - FSOd frameworkd2 Would be cool if Mickey, or another one, can make a talk to address the technical details of this, if they are not completely explained in Mickey introductory talk about FSO. The next three are proposition of mine. - Ophonekitd's future * Vala rewrite: what it brings (Modularity, testability, configurability, ...) * DBus GUI control protocols Ainulindale could make this one - Joint FSO/SHR testing proposal * Using libgmock as a base framework to mock frameworkd or ophonekitd * Shared sequence diagrams This is a thing that I feel is very important for both FSO and SHR's future. I could talk about that. - Ologicd * Introduction (use cases, solutions survey...) * Current state * Flora-2 introduction and demos * Expected Logic frameworks This is my baby project. So here again I can present you all those stuff. - SHR - What a community distribution means I'll be glad Ainulindale and mrmoku explains us how the process to collaborate to the community distro is. How it will evolve as the distro gains momentum. What technical facilities are at our disposal... Here your other ideas|desire... Thank you to take the time to think about all that. Best regards, Didier. ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
Re: [Shr-devel] [FSOSHRUDCON] Call for talks!
snip As told before, Didier, I'm ok for the talks I'm supposed to be involved in. -- Julien Cassignol http://www.ainulindale.net ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
Re: Three different databases for gsm celltower locations
Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: Onen onen...@free.fr writes: A reason why BT may still last over WiFi may be the power needed to have BT on in comparison of WiFi, don't you think? What about digital radio broadcasting stations or RDS information from regular radios? These are very interesting ideas! I have no idea how this all works, what is the coverage of a broadcasting antenna, and if this is possible to differentiate them through the received signal. Plus we would need a working USB radio receiver. Onen ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
GSM location in FSO
Hallo Jan, I have seen the last commits from you about adding GSM based localisation. First this is great, that it reaches the framework! This brings me some questions: 1. This has been especially a surprise to us, as we at openBmap have currently been thinking how to bring this to the users. We already did some work on exporting the database under SQLite files for every country. And on top of this, a small DBus service to bring the localisation to everyone... I am no hacker, but still would have hoped to bring some help on this... If you are interested, how would you like to proceed? 2. I had a look at the code, and suppose you are building your database out of the data from CellHunter. Am I correct? I think CellHunter is a great project but we still think that we should log HPV-Dops, speed, in order to be able to filter low quality measures. This is currently discussed on another thread on this list [1]. If you combine a high speed with low Dops, you end up with very unprecise positions for building the cells coverage, don't you think? I would like to know what is your opinion about all of this. Are you interested in our approach, and are you interested in taking in consideration in your code the extra fields our data contains (Dops, speed, software id, software version, etc.) to possibly filter measures to keep only higher quality? Thanks, Onen [1] http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=567f3454e19fac756a03ba58a7a3c5e909519780 [2] http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-April/000973.html ___ smartphones-standards mailing list smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-standards
