Ed, thanks for replying. You are reading it exactly correct. Maybe I didn't
explain it properly, that not many gave their opinions. I would agree that
it must be the horizontal distance as the heat transmission is upwards
mostly by convection. But then why wouldn't NFPA be more specific? Then
again
I worked on wood frame Buddhist temple once and it had three sets of
overhanging eaves spaced closely together like a pagoda. There was
essentially so much framing in these eaves (already built by the time
the sprinkler guy was called) that pipes couldn't be put in. The AHJ
wanted it sprinklered bu
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I saw both (Todd and Reed) your posts. Let me say I think you are saying
the combustible concealed space is separated from the attic with wood
blocking. I'm assuming then the concealed space is then outside the outer
wall of the building. I think we are talking about the triangle space
usually b
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Since your time frame is tight, put a note on your drawings "Concealed
combustible space to be protected if required by the AHJ." Submit your plans
and let him make the call and argue with the Arch.
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
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Reed,
I must have missed that, although there was a 2 week period around
then when I got nothing from the Forum. Most of the space is blocked
off from the open attic with 2x4 or 2x6 blocking. There are some
openings and they do make some vent channels (The name escapes me,
but they were recen
The architect's lack of planning is your emergency how? You have no
idea how fed up I am with this concept of getting the contract signed
on Monday, not getting the plans until Thursday and then being the one
"holding up the job" on Friday. This guy did not represent the owner
appropriately, has de
Todd,
I had the same argument with an architect a few weeks ago and I posted the
question to the forum (Subject: combustible overhang 8-18-08) to see how this
is typically handled. I didn't get any responses. Typically, the space can't
be filled with insulation because it needs to remain ope
I think you're dead-on.
Section 8.15.7 addresses the spaces located BENEATH canopies, etc. Section
8.15.1 addresses combustible concealed spaces.
Ed Kramer
Littleton, CO
>
> I am working on a project on a wood frame building which has a 3'
> wide overhang around the perimeter. The framing is l
I'm reading a little into this, so correct me if I'm wrong:
Hot gasses from the fireplace flue discharge onto a balcony. The sprinkler
is located 3' above the discharge point.
Gasses from the flue are likely to rise up toward the sprinkler.
If the above is correct, you may have a legitimate co
Let's see. The building permit was issued on 8/8, the sprinkler
contract was given out on 9/18 and the building has to be turned over
on 11/5. At what point is there time for and RFI? (I may put it in
that format anyway)
At 03:02 PM 10/1/2008, you wrote:
Todd,
For what it's worth I agree
Rated glass walls have been used for ages but the Tyco window sprinkler is
fairly new so I've been wondering what has been done in the past to address
this issue architecturally wise. I called an architect and questioned him on
it. He said that a long time ago one could use wire glass. Now he uses
Todd,
For what it's worth I agree with you also. Too bad you have that PE. A
moron like myself could easily write a short disclaimer stating my
objection to the architect's interpretation, citing chapter and verse
of course, file a copy with everyone involved and their mothers, ask
the architect f
Todd,
In my opinion, you are correct in that you are actually addressing two very
specific issues:
(1) The combustible concealed space created by the framing of the overhang
(2) The use of the space BENEATH the combustible overhang
Each of the scenarios needs to be addressed separately and agai
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I am working on a project on a wood frame building which has a 3'
wide overhang around the perimeter. The framing is likewise wood, the
space between the joists is greater than 6" and the space is
separated from the main building by 2x4 blocking. My claim is that is
is a combustible concealed s
The what if was in regard to Steve Laytons' post about " during which
water is jetted against the subject and it can't fail." If the window is
hot and hit with a hose stream before the sprinkler activates will the
glass fail?
It just seems like it would be good to know how long it would take to
ac
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If that happens what's the problem?
If FD is on the scene and attacking the fire then most likely occupants are
out, hose streams are in play and sprinklers at the glass are a non-issue.
What about the other sprinklers, are they active?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Dep
The glass bulb in the sprinkler head has a little air bubble that
assists breaking the glass when it is heated up. The tempered glass
making up the wall does not have this air bubble in it. The 155 F
sprinkler activation temperature is much less than the temperature when
glass breaks (check out Bab
That was my point exactly. Not how to install the head per the listing.
A manual system would be more dependable than a closed head system with
no heat collection.
Here's a what if. What if there's a fire, the glass gets hot and fire
department hits the glass with a hose stream before the window s
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I believe the issue is similar to in-rack sprinklers in that the activation is
more or less direct flame impingement. If there is enough heat to jeopardize
the side of a building the head will likely activate.
Rich Richardson
Seattle Fire Department
>>> "Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/01/2008
The glass remains intact because of the location (close proximity) to the
glass of the sprinkler heads. At 155'F/200'F the heads go off before the
glass temp rises above that, due to the mass of the glass requiring longer
than air to rise in temp. Also the distance from the glass to the sprinkler
i
Just a note about the mentioning of "sprinkler activation". The data sheet
states that the advantages are its ability to wet the entire glass and the
quick activation time. Well, that quick activation time is a mystery to me
because the data states that there is no specific distance below the
ceili
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htt
Dave Hague wrote the last one. I'll ask him if he is slatted to do an
update.
Roland
On Sep 30, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Joe Burtell wrote:
Does anyone know when the 2007 NFPA 13 pocket guide will be out or
who to talk to. I have asked NFPA but no one the put me through to
really knows.
Best
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Just a guess but I think the window damage (without the sprinkler
protection) would occur within the first minutes. Once the minimum
water discharge is established I would assume the protection would last
as long as the water is flowing. Does this sound logical?
Bill Brooks
William N. Brooks, P
Ah, Gotcha
Bill Minkel, Designer
Dallas, TX
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 3:16 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Of course it's MORE than adequate fo
Don't worry about freezing up the fire truck. All can re-circulate within
to keep the pump cool more than prevent freeze up. In really cold weather
when the pump isn't being used one would normally engages the pump and
circulate to prevent freezing. In these part the problem we have isn't the
pu
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