RE: As = L x S

Something else you might want to keep in mind is the idea of AS-BUILT CALCULATIONS. Say you calc an Ord. Haz. II at 104 SF/head because the heads are 6'-6 from one wall and 4'-0 from another. But there is a conduit at 4'-0. The fitter knows 130 SF max for standard coverage heads in Ord. Haz., so

Re: Electrical Rooms

the last time I looked there was no such restriction. You may be thinking of Electrical VAULTS which does have that restriction. You can identify these by the high voltage 10,000 or 12,000 voltage entering the vault and the 3 or 4 hour fire rated construction segregating it form the

RE: Electrical Rooms

Why would different voltages, or the addition of an elevator motor make a difference whether a pipe can go in and out or not? If a pipe that enters a room is going to leak, why is the leak different if it stops in the room or passes through? Ed -Original Message- From:

RE: As = L x S

In all seriousness, I find submission of AsBuilts in this industry as the exception rather than the rule, and the likelihood of AsBuilt Calcs even more remote, absent a contractual obligation and an engineer either smart enough or PIA enough to followup. Not saying they aren't a great idea

Re: Electrical Rooms

Hello Ed.Tambini, I know here that anything that enters the elevator room can not exit the room unless it goes directly into the shaft. Had a building that had been here 20 years, Got a new owner who did the typical paint/wallpaper make over. When the elevator inspector came out the sprinkler

RE: Electrical Rooms

We've had similar experiences, but when questioned, no one can produce a code reference to back it up. Ed Aero Automatic Sprinkler -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Charles Thurston Sent:

RE: As = L x S

All true George, and maybe I worry a little too much, but when Gerzayn mentioned Best Practice, the idea of not all heads ending up exactly as planned occurred to me. I left out the part about calcing all sched. 40 and figuring total pressure at all flowing outlets, not just a few! Have you ever

RE: As = L x S

Pain in ... Similar to badge heavy in this usage. George Church Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

FW: Pre-Action

Brian Harris FDFP Inc. _ From: Brian Harris [mailto:br...@firstdefensefire.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 11:32 AM To: 'sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org' Subject: Pre-Action Quick question, What is the reasoning for pitching a pre-action system like you would a dry

RE: Pre-Action

To get the water out of the pipes. Why are you putting a preaction in a heated area? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com

RE: Pre-Action

Craig- Customer request, I know it's to drain the pipes but why the need to completely drain them if it's heated? Corrosion? Brian Harris FDFP Inc. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of

RE: Pre-Action

Any room with contents sensitive to water? Electrical equipment rooms, come to mind. As far as pitching the pipe, it is required by code, but all the code language suggests it's predicated on the assumption the system will be used in an area subject to freezing. If it's an issue you could

Re: Electrical Rooms

Please check the following book; ASME A17.1/CSA B44-2004;Safety Code for Elevators and Escalators; Section 2.8.2.; Pipes , Ducts, Tanks ,and Sprinklers.; Diagram 2.8.1.;Machine Room Pipe,etc.,Separation ;. 2.8.2.3. .the ASME Code A17 Committee could not blindly prohibit sprinklers in

RE: Pre-Action

Ok, why? What's his concern? If he wants PA because he scared of accidental sprinkler discharge then any water in the pipes could leak on his stuff. So drain it. But regardless, if you don't need to drain it, he doesn't need a PA system. Give us some specifics. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire

RE: Electrical Rooms

The code reference is from the ASME Code for Elevators A17.1 2004 edition as referenced by the 2006 IBC Jim Davidson   Davidson Associates Fire Protection * Medical Gas * Code Consulting   302-994-9500   Fax:302-234-1781 -Original Message- From:

RE: Electrical Rooms

FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT HAVE A17.1 HANDY.. AND THAT REFERENCE STATES ??? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102

RE: Electrical Rooms

ASME A17.12007 2.8.3 Pipes, Ducts, Tanks, and Sprinklers 2.8.3.1 Steam and hot‐water pipes shall be permitted to be installed in hoistways, machinery spaces, machine rooms, control spaces, and control rooms for the purpose of heating these areas only, subject to 2.8.3.1.1 through 2.8.3.1.3.

RE: Pre-Action

Since the PA system is filled with compressed air, minimizing the water in it helps minimize corrosion and/or MIC. Won't stop it, but should give the system a longer life. Ed Kramer Littleton, CO Quick question, What is the reasoning for pitching a pre-action system like you would a dry

RE: As = L x S

Just a follow up on AS Built drawings, won't they become Common practice as NFPA 3 Commissioning becomes more common??? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Thursday, March 03,

RE: Pre-Action

Pitch to drain the water out to minimize air water interface. Provide N2 cylinders or generator for air supply, or a GAP dry Air Pak, to minimize corrosion. Speaking of corrosion, we were looking at a job where 13 year old Sch 10 galv has had 3 pinholes surface in last week. Pitched right,

Re: As = L x S

WHEN? IF…. On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Thom tmcma...@firetechinc.com wrote: Just a follow up on AS Built drawings, won't they become Common practice as NFPA 3 Commissioning becomes more common??? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: Electrical Rooms

Thank you all for your help, it is much appreciated Ed Aero -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Joe Burtell Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:16 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject:

RE: As = L x S

While Cx is on the front page of all the cutting edge magazines, most of us know BIM is a generation away from realizing half its potential, and most of what BIM or Revit are used for, from what I've heard, is that it's a collision checker- that's it. The vast majority of work in our industry

Cx

Understand still no LEED points for sprinklers and we haven't released the RP for Cx and Integrated Testing yet. So without points and without a procedure to follow, I think we're talking infancy. However, I live in the sticks- but I do get out occasionally ;) and occasionally communicate

RE: Cx

CX? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: Cx

Craig, My guess is 'Commissioning'. Cliff Whitfield, SET President Fire Design, Inc. 3784 Holly Ridge Trail Marianna, FL 32448 Ph: 850-526-1886 Fx: 850-526-1884 cl...@fire-design.com www.fire-design.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: Cx

Folks, The Commissioning Industry is gaining BIG ground as real BIM approaches. Cx is easier to implement than the total BIM process and so it will gain ground faster than BIM, and you can see how quickly the idea of having BIM is growing. Everyone is using the catch phrase BIM when we are

Re: Cx

Commissioning per NFPA 3, but what's that? I see it on a list with Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Great Pumpkin. SML Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Cliff Whitfield cl...@fire-design.com Sender: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org Date: Thu,

RE: Cx

Dude, Ya gotta add to THAT list: Commissioning per NFPA 3, but what's that? I see it on a list with Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Great Pumpkin, GSA, US NAVY, HARVARD. Hey, would ya look at that?!?! Yer right, they go together. :-) SprinklerGEEK Subject: Re:

RE: Cx

Add USACE on certain projects (Not necessarily per NFPA 3 but full commissioning with REAL BIM). Rod DiBona Rapid Fire -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Sprinkler Academy - C Bilbo Sent:

RE: As = L x S

Many Gov. agency's (GSA) and other are now Revit only, and BIM is really making headway with smart metering and building control systems. Maybe not as long as we dinosaurs would like? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org