NFPA 13 - 2013ed ceiling pockets

I have a situation where I have a condo unit where the owner is requesting to have “custom wood coffer ceilings”. This creates small ceiling pockets (4’x4’x8”) throughout the area in question. The total areas in question would be between 80 cu ft and 200 cu ft in size. What are my options to

RE: Ceiling Pockets

, September 13, 2016 1:36 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets That makes sense, until you start taking it to extremes. What about a 10' deep pocket under 1000 sq ft? I guess the committee had to draw a line somewhere and 3' was the line. Even th

RE: Ceiling Pockets

@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets That makes sense, until you start taking it to extremes. What about a 10' deep pocket under 1000 sq ft? I guess the committee had to draw a line somewhere and 3' was the line. Even though it is potentially a bunch of extra sprin

RE: Ceiling Pockets

Highland Rd CLE 44143 216-621-8899 216-570-7030 cell From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of rongreenman . Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 1:06 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets If I wer interpreting

Re: Ceiling Pockets

nklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org *Subject:* Re: Ceiling Pockets Skylights and _similar pockets_ not exceeding 32 sq.ft. and separated from other pockets by minimum 10 feet do not require sprinklers. I would try to use that. Tony -

RE: Ceiling Pockets

Highland Rd CLE 44143 216-621-8899 216-570-7030 cell From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of T. Silva Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 12:51 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets Skylights and similar

Re: Ceiling Pockets

- > *From: *"Travis Mack" > > *To: *sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > *Sent: *Tuesday, September 13, 2016 9:34:20 AM > *Subject: *Re: Ceiling Pockets > > Just put a 2.8k sprinkler in the pocket. At least that minimizes the > hydraulic impa

Re: Ceiling Pockets

r 13, 2016 9:34:20 AM Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets Just put a 2.8k sprinkler in the pocket. At least that minimizes the hydraulic impact to the system. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC "Follow" us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 Send large

Re: Ceiling Pockets

e Protection > > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] > On Behalf Of Brad Casterline > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 5:51 PM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets > > It's all about activation

RE: Ceiling Pockets

, September 12, 2016 5:51 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets It's all about activation Ron/Bruce. Roland's insight as to the pass/fail criteria was a stroke of genius. I like to explain it and then Roland corrects me. So I'll forego my part and

Re: Ceiling Pockets

I also saw a test once where smaller pockets could form a heat barrier much like occurs when placing baseboard heaters under windows. Intuitively that makes no sense yet it works. In any case these small ceiling pockets stayed cool and insulated the head from activating. I dong know if that

Re: Ceiling Pockets

It's all about activation Ron/Bruce. Roland's insight as to the pass/fail criteria was a stroke of genius. I like to explain it and then Roland corrects me. So I'll forego my part and wait for Roland to get his ears on. Brad On Sep 12, 2016 4:41 PM, "Bruce Verhei" wrote: > Ron is briefer. > > O

Re: Ceiling Pockets

Ron is briefer. > On Sep 12, 2016, at 14:39, Bruce Verhei wrote: > > Isn't the idea of using a Volume completely different than viewing his as an > Area, such as a large sail sewing table that obstructs coverage as well as > delaying operation? > > Wasn't 1,000 cu ft a consensus guesstimate s

Re: Ceiling Pockets

Isn't the idea of using a Volume completely different than viewing his as an Area, such as a large sail sewing table that obstructs coverage as well as delaying operation? Wasn't 1,000 cu ft a consensus guesstimate saying we'd allow a space this big for heat to accumulate in before banking down

Re: Ceiling Pockets

> > >> *To: *sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> >> *Sent: *Monday, September 12, 2016 12:59:45 PM >> *Subject: *Re: Ceiling Pockets >> >> I do not think you can do what you are proposing. I think that you should >> protect the entire pocket. &

Re: Ceiling Pockets

ith the forum. > Thanks, Tony > > -- > *From: *"Greg McGahan" > *To: *sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > *Sent: *Monday, September 12, 2016 12:59:45 PM > *Subject: *Re: Ceiling Pockets > > I do not think you can do what you are proposing. I think that you shoul

Re: Ceiling Pockets

nt: Monday, September 12, 2016 12:59:45 PM Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets I do not think you can do what you are proposing. I think that you should protect the entire pocket. Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 fax 85

Re: Ceiling Pockets

Silva wrote: > No to what? > Tony > > -- > *From: *"Greg McGahan" > *To: *sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > *Sent: *Monday, September 12, 2016 12:41:15 PM > *Subject: *Re: Ceiling Pockets > > > Ummm - I would say nobu

Re: Ceiling Pockets

I don't believe the intent is to only protect a portion of the ceiling pocket in order to reduce the volume. I believe it would be protect the entire pocket if it exceeds 1000ft³ (or doesn't meet any of the other requirements in 8.6.7.2 as you have to meet all four). Bobby Gillett *Living Water Fi

RE: Ceiling Pockets

orum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets Ummm - I would say nobut that is my personal opinion. Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC<http://www.livingwaterfp.com> 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 fax 850-937-1852 On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 1:21 PM

Re: Ceiling Pockets

No to what? Tony - Original Message - From: "Greg McGahan" To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 12:41:15 PM Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets Ummm - I would say nobut that is my personal opinion. Greg McGahan Living

Re: Ceiling Pockets

Ummm - I would say nobut that is my personal opinion. Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 fax 850-937-1852 On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 1:21 PM, T. Silva wrote: > -- > NFPA

RE: Ceiling Pockets

: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Ceiling Pockets NFPA 13, 2013 8.6.7.2 (1) "The total volume of the unprotected ceiling pocket does not exceed 1000 cu.ft." Is the 1000 cuft only the volume of the pocket that is not sprinklered? Fo

Ceiling Pockets

- Original Message - NFPA 13, 2013 8.6.7.2 (1) "The total volume of the unprotected ceiling pocket does not exceed 1000 cu.ft." Is the 1000 cuft only the volume of the pocket that is not sprinklered? For example, there is a pocket that is 30" long x 20' wide x 2' deep, creating a 120

Re: Ceiling pockets

; > 216-570-7030 cell > > > > > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces@lists.firesprinkler. > org] *On Behalf Of *Ed Kramer > *Sent:* Thursday, August 04, 2016 3:13 PM > *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > *Subject:* RE: Ceiling pockets >

RE: Ceiling pockets

cell From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ed Kramer Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2016 3:13 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Ceiling pockets If you qualify, you might be able to use 8.8.7.3. Note the wo

RE: Ceiling pockets

nt: Thursday, August 04, 2016 11:13 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Ceiling pockets In section 8.8.7 sprinklers may be omitted from 1000 Cu.Ft. ceiling pockets. This large volume is allowed but is further restricted by a 3 Ft. maximum pocket height. I have long narro

RE: Ceiling pockets

es of test performed at some point. Mike Hill From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Art Tiroly Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2016 12:13 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Ceiling pockets In section 8.8.7 sprinklers may

Ceiling pockets

In section 8.8.7 sprinklers may be omitted from 1000 Cu.Ft. ceiling pockets. This large volume is allowed but is further restricted by a 3 Ft. maximum pocket height. I have long narrow pockets along high windows with a new drop ceiling that has a pocket 4 Ft. above the new ceiling. The volumes

Re: ceiling pockets, part 2

> > This is a follow up to the question I posed about a week ago. 13 says that > there needs to be a 10 ft separation between ceiling pockets. I assume that > means if they are in the same room. Would a non-rated wall create a > separation that would vacate the need for the 10

RE: ceiling pockets, part 2

lf Of rongreenman . Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 10:29 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: ceiling pockets, part 2 As suppression guys we tend to think of obstructions to spray before we consider activation. It's just natural. Whenever I have a conundrum of why o

Re: ceiling pockets, part 2

in the adjacent room, at least in the normal > > automatic sprinkler activation times designed for--- yadayadayada---" I > > doubt you would get much resistance. > > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > > sprinkle

Re: ceiling pockets, part 2

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] > On Behalf Of Todd - Work > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 8:45 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: ceiling pockets, part 2 > > This is a follow up to the question I p

RE: ceiling pockets, part 2

e. Brad -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd - Work Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 8:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: ceiling pockets, part 2 This is a follow up to the question I p

ceiling pockets, part 2

This is a follow up to the question I posed about a week ago. 13 says that there needs to be a 10 ft separation between ceiling pockets. I assume that means if they are in the same room. Would a non-rated wall create a separation that would vacate the need for the 10 ft separation. I am away

RE: window soffits and ceiling pockets

To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: window soffits and ceiling pockets What diagram? This SHOULD be as easy as meeting the 7 requirements to omit sprinklers... -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of

RE: window soffits and ceiling pockets

05, 2015 6:49 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: window soffits and ceiling pockets I agree with Matt. It sounds like the engineer is lost in the differences between a ceiling pocket and a soffit. B.J. Newlin Service Sales Aegis Fire Protection LLC. "Whoever is ca

RE: window soffits and ceiling pockets

t Einstein -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Matt Willis Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:46 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: window soffits and ceiling pockets From 2010: 3.3.4* Ceiling Pocket. An arc

RE: window soffits and ceiling pockets

Of Todd - Work Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 6:13 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: window soffits and ceiling pockets I am working on a project where there is a reverse soffit along the perimeter to accommodate an 8'-8" ceiling and a 10'-7" top of window.

RE: window soffits and ceiling pockets

@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: window soffits and ceiling pockets I am working on a project where there is a reverse soffit along the perimeter to accommodate an 8'-8" ceiling and a 10'-7" top of window. NFPA 13 (2002) section 8.6.7 covers ceiling pockets. I am contending that this section ap

RE: window soffits and ceiling pockets

...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd - Work Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 8:13 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: window soffits and ceiling pockets I am working on a project where there is a reverse soffit along the perimeter to accommodate an 8'-8" ceiling and a 10&

window soffits and ceiling pockets

I am working on a project where there is a reverse soffit along the perimeter to accommodate an 8'-8" ceiling and a 10'-7" top of window. NFPA 13 (2002) section 8.6.7 covers ceiling pockets. I am contending that this section applies, including the exceptions that allow om

RE: Ceiling Pockets

An upside down bath tub. See also: A.3.3.4 Ceiling Pocket. It is not the intent of this definition to be applied to structural and/or framing members otherwise used to define obstructed or unobstructed construction. Ceiling pockets can be protected or unprotected. A ceiling pocket where the

Ceiling Pockets

Guys, I have another question for you. What exactly is a ceiling pocket? I have read the definition in NFPA 13 and would like to know what it really means. I will try not to be too comfortable on this Forum. My girlfriend accused me of being a "goombah" in my last couple of posts. She's usua

Ceiling pockets vs panel construction

Maybe I'm over simplifying this but I am trying to see the difference between ceiling pockets and panel construction. With panel construction pockets less than 300 sqft. can be right next to each other with no total volume limit. Just three 300 sqft. panels 18 inches deep total more than

Re: Ceiling Pockets and Horizontal Sidewalls

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Scott A Futrell wrote: > Rod, > > I know they are available on the NFPA subscription service website, I > don't know if they are available otherwise. > > Scott Futrell > > (763) 425-1001 Office > (612) 759-5556 Cell > To access RoP's and RoCs: Go to www.nfpa.or

RE: Ceiling Pockets and Horizontal Sidewalls

-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Rod DiBona Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 6:45 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Ceiling Pockets and Horizontal Sidewalls Where does a person look to find ROC's and ROP's? Thanks. Rod at Rapid -Original Message- From: spri

RE: Ceiling Pockets and Horizontal Sidewalls

ubject: Re: Ceiling Pockets and Horizontal Sidewalls Was out last week at our convention so just getting caught-up. As you identified, the modeling did not look at sidewall sprinklers. It also did not look at EC pendent but the TC deemed them applicable. The main problem with pockets an

Re: Ceiling Pockets and Horizontal Sidewalls

13. The pocket created by the soffits is approximately 300 ft^3 and approximately 1-7 deep. Seems to fit the "exception" in 13 for ceiling pockets, but I can only find the exception in the pendent/upright standard spray and EC sections, not in the HSW section. Looking back to the R

RE: Ceiling Pockets and Horizontal Sidewalls

To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Ceiling Pockets and Horizontal Sidewalls Roland, I found your article in NFPA Journal from 2004 on this subject that stated sidewall and residential sprinklers had not been addressed in the modeling, only pendents. It went on to suggest there was

RE: Ceiling Pockets and Horizontal Sidewalls

t to add a ceiling pocket? That will only delay activation even more. Note: ceiling pockets are not permitted for standard sidewalls either. However, 8.9.4.1.1.2 permits extended coverage sidewalls to be up to 18" below noncombustible ceilings if listed for such use. Check the listing of the spri

heads up- qr reduction- ceiling pockets

I have not HAD to look up requirements for qr reduction for a while (wet, light or ord, max 20' clg), but there is a 4th.--- if you are eliminating heads in ceiling pockets, you will want to check it out! ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinkler

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

Got it, I think the point of confusion is when the term "similar ceiling pockets" is used next to skylights. I think clarity would be to be more explicit and not use the word similar, but regardless, thanks, Rich -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firespr

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:16 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets So in affect there is a not so clear exception to the ceiling pocket rule that allows you to ignore 32 sq. ft. pockets separated by 10 ft. whether or not the pocket has a sky

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

ocation: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Richardson, R Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:57 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: skylights vs. ce

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

nkler.org' Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets I agree with Brad on this one. The code says that it is acceptable as long as "each unprotected ceiling pocket is separated from any adjacent unprotected pocket by a minimum 10 feet horizontal distance" 13 2007 8.6.7.2 (4) It seems

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

klerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Pielow, Robert Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:09 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org; bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets Creative thinking Brad, but I think all three would need sprinklers. I do not think a sprinklered po

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Pielow, Robert Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 09:06 To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets You could follow either (NFPA 13 - 2010) 8.5.7 for a skylight or deep pocket condition or 8.6.7 which

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

But a sprinklered pocket is not an unprotected pocket -Original Message- From: Pielow, Robert [mailto:robert.pie...@hdrinc.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:09 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org; bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets Creative

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets You could follow either (NFPA 13 - 2010) 8.5.7 for a skylight or deep pocket condition or 8.6.7 which permits a larger, but maximum 36 inch deep pocket. Robert J. Pielow, P.E. Fire Protection & Life Safety -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:05 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets And by the way-- say you have 3 skylights, 3' square, at 9' c-c, those skylights would need to

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Richardson, R Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:57 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets When you say the "prescribed limitations on size and dimension" you must be referring to the

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

riginal Message- From: Pielow, Robert [mailto:robert.pie...@hdrinc.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:53 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets I do not believe NFPA 13 requires a sprinkler in either a pocket or skylight that meet the prescribed limi

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

ictions on depth. Rich -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Pielow, Robert Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 08:53 To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets I do n

RE: skylights vs. ceiling pockets

, April 22, 2010 10:38 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: skylights vs. ceiling pockets Am I understanding the standard correctly in that a ceiling pocket that would otherwise require sprinklers may no longer require sprinklers if I were to install a skylight in the pocket, reg

skylights vs. ceiling pockets

Am I understanding the standard correctly in that a ceiling pocket that would otherwise require sprinklers may no longer require sprinklers if I were to install a skylight in the pocket, regardless of depth etc.? If the answer is yes, any logical reasons one could offer would be helpful. Tha

RE: Vertical changes in ceilings and ceiling pockets

Subject: RE: Vertical changes in ceilings and ceiling pockets I believe you are correct. Here's how I'm visualizing your layout (correct me if I'm wrong): You have sprinks located beneath the soffits that fully protect the area beneath the soffits. Then you have additional sprinks

RE: Vertical changes in ceilings and ceiling pockets

> NFPA 13 (07ed) Sections 8.6.4.1.1.3 and 8.8.4.1.1.4 > > Can these sections be applied to the change in ceiling elevations that > occur for ceiling pockets which require sprinklers? > > I am have a AHJ that says NO and I just want to confirm if I am off > base. I have a large

Vertical changes in ceilings and ceiling pockets

NFPA 13 (07ed) Sections 8.6.4.1.1.3 and 8.8.4.1.1.4 Can these sections be applied to the change in ceiling elevations that occur for ceiling pockets which require sprinklers? I am have a AHJ that says NO and I just want to confirm if I am off base. I have a large room which has a duct soffit

Ceiling Pockets

Forum, Are ceiling pockets considered anything over 36" deep? Thanks, BH <http://www.firstdefensefire.com/> ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinkle

RE: ceiling pockets?

you will find any guidance in 13 specifically. It doesn't >comply with 12" down, it doesn't comply with pocket rules. It does though >comply with 8.5.7 for skylights and similar ceiling pockets. I tend to >agree with you as an opinion. But the IOR would first have to

Re: ceiling pockets?

rican Fire Sprinkler Association Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 1:47 pm Subject: ceiling pockets? Forumites, Question: Are sprinklers required in the narrow pockets parallel to windows long with smoke detection? Construction is non-combustible concealed space, smooth t-bar ceiling with coustical tile, ce

RE: ceiling pockets?

I don't think you will find any guidance in 13 specifically. It doesn't comply with 12" down, it doesn't comply with pocket rules. It does though comply with 8.5.7 for skylights and similar ceiling pockets. I tend to agree with you as an opinion. But the IOR would firs

RE: ceiling pockets?

Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ed Cyr Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:47 PM To: American Fire Sprinkler Association Subject: ceiling pockets? Forumites, Question: Are sprinklers required in the nar

ceiling pockets?

Forumites, Question: Are sprinklers required in the narrow pockets parallel to windows along with smoke detection? Construction is non-combustible concealed space, smooth t-bar ceiling with acoustical tile, ceiling stops short of window fronts, ceiling changes elevation by rising up to meet windo

Autoreply: Re: protected ceiling pockets

Thank you for the e-mail, I am presently away on vacation at this time. I will be returning the 16th of July, please re-contact me at that time, or if this is an urgent matter please contact Mark Hudson at “m.hud...@waymanfireprotection.com” for further assistance as he will be handling our te

Re: protected ceiling pockets

In my humble opinion, no. Keep in mind that the distance between the deflector and ceiling is measured throughout the area of coverage (except for ceiling pockets and single vertical change (8.6.4.1.1.3). That does not sound like an issue either (but it's often overlooked) Roland O

Re: protected ceiling pockets

o clarify the >issue (see the 2010 ROP/ROC) > >As for not allowing the QR reduction, it is explicitly stated in 13. >You're just looking in the wrong location. 8.6.7 tells about >protecting ceiling pockets (or not) whereas 11.2.3.2.3(4) allows the >reduction for QR provi

Autoreply: Re: protected ceiling pockets

Thank you for the e-mail, I am presently away on vacation at this time. I will be returning the 16th of July, please re-contact me at that time, or if this is an urgent matter please contact Mark Hudson at “m.hud...@waymanfireprotection.com” for further assistance as he will be handling our te

Re: protected ceiling pockets

That is the intent of the TC shown by their effort to clarify the issue (see the 2010 ROP/ROC) As for not allowing the QR reduction, it is explicitly stated in 13. You're just looking in the wrong location. 8.6.7 tells about protecting ceiling pockets (or not) whereas 11.2.3.2.3(4) a

RE: protected ceiling pockets

..@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 3:12 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: protected ceiling pockets I read 8.6.7 because it was referenced as part of the QR reduction and I was hoping for a definition or m

RE: protected ceiling pockets

;From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org >[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams >Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:33 PM >To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >Subject: RE: protected ceiling pockets > >Dimensionally is one thing, but

RE: protected ceiling pockets

And since the voices tell me so... http://www.firesprinkler.org/techservices/articles/nfpaceiling.html >From about mid-article... "Description of Pockets Pockets with varying dimensions were evaluated. In each case, the ceiling pocket was positioned in the center of room with the long length

RE: protected ceiling pockets

.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:33 PM To: sprinklerforum@firespri

RE: protected ceiling pockets

-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:33 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: protected ceiling pockets Dimensionally is one thing, but would it have an impact on response time? In this situ

RE: protected ceiling pockets

forum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 12:06 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: protected ceiling pockets I'm having a row with an engineer over a particular project. In one situation, we have a 1500 sqft area which could be the most

RE: protected ceiling pockets

e are no unprotected ceiling pockets as allowed by 8.6.7 or 8.8.7 exceeding 32 sqft." Reading into 8.6.7, meeting those conditions does not make the pocket unprotected, just that no protection is required in that space. My take is that we have two 228 sqft unprotected ceiling pockets an

RE: protected ceiling pockets

- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:25 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: protected ceiling pockets By rule you can have deflectors at 12" therefore one

RE: protected ceiling pockets

firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:06 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: protected ceiling pockets I'm having a row with an engineer over a particular project. In one situation, we have a 1500 sqft area which could be the most hydraulicall

RE: protected ceiling pockets

To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: protected ceiling pockets Where does it say 12"? Mike Brown Project Designer Sunland Fire Protection 1218 Elon Place High Point, NC 27263 Ph. 336.886.7027 Ext. 140 Fax: 336.886.7024 WWW.SUNLANDFIRE.COM -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-b

RE: protected ceiling pockets

-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 3:14 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: protected ceiling pockets I did not see anything in 13 where a minimum depth of pocket is specified. At 03:08 PM 7/9/2009, you wrote: >Pocket protection only ap

RE: protected ceiling pockets

liams >Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:06 PM >To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >Subject: protected ceiling pockets > >I'm having a row with an engineer over a particular project. In one >situation, we have a 1500 sqft area which could be the most >hydraulically remote. The ceiling

RE: protected ceiling pockets

- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:06 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: protected ceiling pockets I'm having a row with an engineer over a particular project. I

protected ceiling pockets

I'm having a row with an engineer over a particular project. In one situation, we have a 1500 sqft area which could be the most hydraulically remote. The ceilings are 19'-2", except for two 6ft x 38ft ceiling pockets at 19'-8". All of the sprinklers are on the 19'

RE: Ceiling pockets -- special situation

resprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Margaret Zabel Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:44 PM To: SprinklerFORUM@firesprinkler.org Subject: Ceiling pockets -- special situation I have a nearly square room -- approx. 18' x 19'. There is a ceiling pocket around th

RE: Ceiling pockets -- special situation

Margaret, I would think your coverage is fine. Your explanation seems to satisfy the requirements for unprotected ceiling pockets if you consider all the pocket areas "one pocket" since they are interconnected. I think as long as you have proper floor coverage you can apply the vertic

Ceiling pockets -- special situation

ends) portions of the buckle are separated by only 7'-6" edge-to-edge. OR you could make the case that it is one oddly shaped ceiling pocket which clearly meets all of the other criteria for omission of sprinklers in ceiling pockets, and, therefore, NO sprinklers are required in t

Re: NFPA 13R/D and ceiling pockets

use of sidewall sprinklers beneath overhead doors. Not listed for such uses but now allowed by 13. Roland On Apr 6, 2009, at 11:13 AM, Eric Tysinger wrote: > The ceiling pocket rules in NFPA 13/13R/13D only tell you when you > need / don't need sprinklers. The ceiling pockets ru

RE: NFPA 13R/D and ceiling pockets

Another thing to keep in mind with residential sprinkler heads is the MFG. installation guide lines. These are listed installations for sprinklers. Specifically beam ceilings. Look at the TYCO TFP 490 pages 16 - 20 beam ceiling layout. (Beams create ceiling Pockets.) Just by the fact that the

RE: NFPA 13R/D and ceiling pockets

The 2002 edition of NFPA 13/13R/13D doesn't address ceiling pockets in residential occupancies. It is first addressed in the 2007 edition of 13R and D. Section 6.8.1.5.4 of 13R and in section 8.6.7 of 13D, 2007 edition that is. Hope this helps. Eric Tysinger Design Manager Wayne Automatic

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