Minimum Lead-in Sizing

Hi all - I've got a customer that's in a pinch and I'm trying to help them out. They have a 2" lead in supplying an existing building, mixed use commercial/residential. NFPA 13 protection on 2 floors. The 2" will actually calculate as it sits. My question for those that have run into the

Re: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

I always hated seeing 4”, reduced to 2” or 1 1/2”. 4” DDCVA, 4” PIV. Absurd for a four head design. Best. > On Mar 18, 2020, at 10:37, Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via > Sprinklerforum wrote: > > When shared fire / domestic, you have to add the domestic at the split when > supply is

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

The argument of "what is your concern" might work here. There are not a lot of fire marshals that want to be known for killing a development project where there was not actually a problem. Matt From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via Sprinklerforum Sent:

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

What TMack said. "Please show me in the standard or code where that provision resides." Then show them the new listed in-building riser sweeps from Ames that go down to 2". SL From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET, CFPS,

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

Where is he even reading a 4" minimum? I don't see that in NFPA 24 at all. 6" min if serving hydrants. If serving sprinkler system, then must just calc to prove. Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET MFP Design, LLC 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 NEW

Re: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

As long as you hydraulically calculate the system, NFPA 13 fully allows you to determine the pipe size. As others have said, under 4” in size, other non fire protection systems must be added to the common supply piping. AFSA assisted in this language being added. NFPA 13 - 2016 24.1.3.3 Where a

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

What is the reference for a minimum 4"? We've had several smaller than that over my career. Never had an issue that I know of. Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET MFP Design, LLC 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

Huh? From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 10:35 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Matthew J Willis ; Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G ; 'Spencer

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

When shared fire / domestic, you have to add the domestic at the split when supply is <4". If dedicated fire, then no such requirement. Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET MFP Design, LLC 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext.

Re: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

Could it be based on minimum supply for standpipe? I believe it is 4" minimum for combined standpipe/sprinkler system. Could be a case of the AHJ applying that requirement, incorrectly? -Skyler On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:00 PM Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via Sprinklerforum wrote: >

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

The whole idea of limiting the size of the underground goes back to the 1999 edition and before. After this, the best I can tell, it was eliminated from the standard. Even then, the 99 edition limited it to 6" with exceptions. If it could be hydraulically calculated and proven, then other sizes

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

Yes sir - of the exact same opinion, as well as Matt's "what does it matter"- since it will calc without issue. It's never been my opinion that a minimum 4" is required anyway, since it's not explicitly stated, and the only limitation on pipe sizing being explicitly stated in Chapter 23. Was

Re: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

I think you just have to add domestic if under 4". Matt On the road.. From: Sprinklerforum on behalf of Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:32:04 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc:

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

I have seen some water departments that don’t allow new FP taps under 4”. Matt From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Skyler Bilbo via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 1:12 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Skyler Bilbo Subject: Re: Minimum Lead-in Sizing Could it

Re: Boat and RV storage units

Extra Hazard Group 7? Niagara Falls? Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 (tel:860-535-2080) (ofc) 860-554-7054 (tel:860-554-7054) (fax) 860-608-4559 (tel:860-608-4559) (cell) > > On Mar

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Boat and RV storage units

We've done some of those in the Phoenix area. Everyone agreed to OH2, but there was certainly some debate about whether they should be something higher. We went back and forth all the way from OH1 (vehicle parking) to EH2 (mobile home manufacturing). We settled on OH2 because we figured a

Boat and RV storage units

What densities is everyone doing these type of projects? If doing as low piled storage, are you taking the QR reduction for these type of facilities? Just curious what everyone is doing these days for these units. Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET MFP

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

That’s the most common restriction. But at the limit of their jurisdiction, you can generally downsize. That might be edge of ROW, edge of easement, discharge flange of backflow or its discharge base ell, etc. We are now doing a LOT of 13R and residential 13 in high water pressure zones

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

Perhaps they will accept what NFPA 13 states.. NFPA 13-2016 edition shows the size requirements 24.1.3* Size of Fire Mains. 24.1.3.1 Except as provided in 24.1.3.2 or 24.1.3.3, no pipe smaller than 6 in. (150 mm) in diameter shall be installed as a private service main. 24.1.3.2 For mains

3D scanning companies in NE Ohio

I'm looking to get in touch with companies that do 3D scanning in the northeastern Ohio area. I would appreciate any contact info or help anyone could provide. Thanks in advance, Benjamin Young ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

Good catch, I searched for that and for whatever reason didn't find it. Thank you, Bob Knight, CET III Fire by Knight, LLC 208-318-3057 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Anthony via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, March 18,

Re: Boat and RV storage units

I assume you are talking about on ground and not rack storage. Ground storage I use Extra Hazard Group II. I don’t believe you can take the QR reduction with EH occupancies. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080

RE: Boat and RV storage units

It's not boat racks. Just the self storage units that can house a single boat. But, I always feel better with EH2 for this type of project. I have an FPE set of plans that did OH2 and used the QR reduction. I think that is a fair bit light. But, I wanted to get a gauge of what others were

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Boat and RV storage units

The issue is the fact that you could have a fire shielded from the sprinklers until it is fully involved. At that point, is OH2 adequate? Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 (tel:860-535-2080) (ofc) 860-554-7054

Re: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

I've been away from the office all day for a medical issue and missed all the exchanges. The mistaken position taken by many - AHJ's and Contractors alike - is that the two most commonly used materials for UG service of a fire sprinkler system are C900 PVC and Ductile Iron pipe.  Those two

RE: Minimum Lead-in Sizing

Some AHJ's have misinterpreted the tables in Chapter 10 of NFPA 13, because the different standards listed give sizes of 4" - ___ Spencer Tomlinson Principal, PE [red logo] Ph: 316-202-6412 Fax: 316-202-2346 Cell: 620-955-7293 www.tomlinsonfire.com From: Travis

RE: Boat and RV storage units

QR reduction for boat storage? That should be Extra Hazard, Group 7... SL From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 12:08 PM To:

Re: Boat and RV storage units

Just my gut reaction - EH2 design classification with 286 F standard response sprinkler at the roof. Prefer wet system, 11.2 K sprinklers or larger, pendent sprinklers if possible. John John August Denhardt, P.E. Vice-President Engineering and Technical Services American Fire Sprinkler