Do you other than NFPA 25
24.2.3.2* Dry Pipe Systems.
24.2.3.2.1 A working test of the dry pipe valve alone and with a quick-opening
device, if installed, shall be made by opening the inspector's test connection.
24.2.3.2.2* The test shall measure the time to trip the valve and the time f
Where does require I monitor the time at which the water flows steadily from
the test connection? I don't deny monitoring this is the proper thing to do,
but when my customer sees the cost for the correction, he may want to see the
NFPA text.
From: sprinklerf
Updates 1 and 2:
AHJ sent me a letter stating he agreed with L&I that they had no
jurisdiction, and gave me the contact info for the County Appeal Board.
I tracked down the code weenie for this 3rd party and we talked; he then
called the AHJ and we can continue with our original nail plates.
That
And to think you could have just set it outside 2 months ago and made it
solid :)
Seriously, I think Noble Co would have your answers. They make a lot of
premix, concentrate, both flavors, and the special Hastings style for big
heads in cold places.
glc
-Original Message-
From: sprinkler
I took some 50/50 and added dry ice to bring it down to -37. Definitely
slushy not frozen though it should have been. It would come out of a
sprinkler head but not terribly effective. Think milk shake from McDonalds
after about 20 minutes at room temperature.
Chris Cahill, P.E.
Fire Protecti
How about the "thickening" of the solution?
R/
Matt
Matthew J. Willis
Norred Fire Systems L.L.C.
318-387-1134 Voice
318-387-1163 Facsimile
m...@norredfire.com
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
Well how can you measure the time to the outlet if you use the trim piping?
--Original Message--
From: Bobby McCullough
Sender: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
To: SprinklerFORUM@firesprinkler.org
ReplyTo: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Dry Valve Trip Test - NFPA 25
Sen
Does NFPA 25 2008 require a dry valve full trip test (three year) be
conducted using the inspectors test or can the valve be tripped using
the valve trim and releasing the air from the top of the clapper? The
text of the standard says "...shall be trip tested..." The annex says
"...by opening t
Todd and others, I've heard of contractors using 100% anti-freeze on small
systems 'cause " the guys
aren't good at math and what harm is it?" I pointed out that freeze point rises
beyond 40-50%. The
flammability issue didn't occur to me.
C. Burton Ford
Designer- NICET Certified: Fire Alarm,
This all begs a lot more questions:
1. Has this scenario be reproduced in a lab or other controlled
environment? Full scale testing?
2. How does concentration impact reaction?
3. Was the antifreeze a pre-mix solution or mixed by the contractor?
4. Does the antifreeze and water separate over time?
The settlement may not be public but the original complaint would be.
Forest Wilson
-Original Message-
From: "John Drucker"
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:02:27
To:
Subject: RE: antifreeze combustibility?
Members,
A settlement was reached in this matter. The public information that is
Hypothetically tell them if they use 100% they have their head stuck -
lol. As long as it is a SOLUTION then FPA 13 covers it.
Roland
On Apr 21, 2009, at 11:50 AM, Todd Williams wrote:
> My question is hypothetical at this point. I don't even have a
> contract at this point. I'm just throwing
Members,
A settlement was reached in this matter. The public information that is
available is as follows;
The area in question was a covered deck protected with sprinklers
utilizing antifreeze. At some point the deck was enclosed and heaters
added. Apparently the antifreeze and ordinary temperatu
I've found that, but not for PG/water mixtures.
At 10:34 AM 4/21/2009, you wrote:
>Here is the MSDS website for Propylene Glycol
>
>http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p6928.htm
>
>Thank You
>
>Rahe Loftin, P.E.
>Region 7 - GSA
>Office - 817-978-7299
>Fax - 817-978-8644
>Cell - 817-371-3102
>
My question is hypothetical at this point. I don't even have a
contract at this point. I'm just throwing out numbers.
At 10:30 AM 4/21/2009, you wrote:
>go to your library and look at your back issue for ROP's and ROC's on
>13. It has been over 6 years so I am a little weak on the specifics
>bu
I recall reading a test report on small scale testing of various antifreeze
solutions carried out at SP in Sweden.
Most of the solutions enhanced the heat release rate. From memory a solution of
propylene gycol to provide freeze protection to -20 degrees C was more flamable
that a solution of m
It seems curious that there was an antifreeze system close to a unit
heater. If you have an antifreeze system it would seem you don't need the
heater and vice-versa. Hopefully the additional details to follow will
answer that question also.
An incident related to antifreeze occurred at the Win
Todd,
Actually, that sounds like a good idea. I don't know if my contractor would
want the added expense, but it makes a lot of sense to test in this way.
Bob
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
Thanks Dwayne, that’s what I thought needed done.
Bob
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Dewayne
Martinez
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 5:35 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject:
Please unsubscribe me.
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Does anyone have a set of pressure tank general notes they would care to share?
Thank you,
Ryan Peterson
Wayne Automatic fire Sprinklers
222 Capitol Court, Ocoee Fl. 34761
Office: 407-877-5593
Mobile: 904-838-7020
PTT: 162*27*1942
Fax: 407-656-8026
www.waynefire.com
__
Here is the MSDS website for Propylene Glycol
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p6928.htm
Thank You
Rahe Loftin, P.E.
Region 7 - GSA
Office - 817-978-7299
Fax - 817-978-8644
Cell - 817-371-3102
go to your library and look at your back issue for ROP's and ROC's on
13. It has been over 6 years so I am a little weak on the specifics
but it was presented that an antifreeze solution can cause a slight
increase in the rate of heat release over a gas burner. That was when
the restricti
Careful there. Dihydrogen Oxide will do the same thing by only considering
the components. Hell it's rocket fuel (think big tank on space shuttle) and
an oxidizer. But in nearly all cases water seems to do OK when exposed to
the heat of the fire. Thus I think we can conclude the constituents alo
But we're talking about A.F. by itself, not mixed with other compositions.
Remember we're talking about a Class III combustible mixed with water.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Specialist
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC
Ok. Chemistry class as well as I can remember. If I'm incorrect please correct
me.
Propylene glycol is a "POLYOL" which means it has 3 hydrogen atoms. This is a
bad thing to discharge
if there is an Oxidizer present. In some circumstances the chemical reaction
caused by the
introduction of Pro
Craig, >>> "I have a call in for the case ruling, technical documents."
John
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
craig.pr...@ch2m.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:46 AM
To: sprinklerforum@fires
Well, I'm sure the poor blokes in NZ that got blown up when the freezer
warehouse refrigeration system leaked weren't aware propane had been used as
the medium. Makes ammonia look good!
Nothing, however, makes ammonia smell good short of a few miles separation.
glc
-Original Message-
From
OK, so where does it say anything about antifreeze and sprinklers contributing
to the blaze?
I am still skeptical.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Specialist
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4
Flammable, really?
Now according to the IFC, "when heated above their flash points, Class II and
III liquids assume the characteristics of Class I liquids. Under such
conditions, the appropriate provisions of this chapter for flammable liquids
shall apply". [IFC 2006, 3401.5]
So in a process e
November 1, 2001
BLAZE AT NEW RESTAURANT IN HIGHLANDS SENDS 20 PEOPLE TO HOSPITAL - TWO
IN CRITICAL CONDITION
by ALLAN DEAN, ATLANTIC HIGHLANDS HERALD
HIGHLANDS, NJ An accidental fire last weekend at the new Windansea
Restaurant sent more than 20 people to the hospital, including one
couple list
Is there anywhere with details from the results? It would be
interesting to see the expert analysis or other technical data. What
was the cause of discharge in the first place?
At 07:48 AM 4/21/2009, you wrote:
>Members,
>
>An incident related to antifreeze occurred at the WindanSea, Highlands
Plus remember if its an antifreeze loop with its own backflow there must be a
provision for forward flow testing of the backflow.
Forest Wilson
-Original Message-
From: Todd Williams
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:41:03
To:
Subject: RE: Antifreeze Remote Test Connection
Would a drum dr
Members,
An incident related to antifreeze occurred at the WindanSea, Highlands, NJ
where a sprinkler system containing antifreeze discharged in proximity to a
unit heater. The atomized liquid was ignited by the unit heater and
occupants burned from the fire that resulted.
CASE: Rohmer Vs. Winda
Would a drum drip make sense to draw off a sample for testing?
At 07:34 AM 4/21/2009, you wrote:
>Bob,
>We have been adding just a 1" ball valve.
>Dewayne
>
>-Original Message-
>From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
>[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
That is for 99-100% concentration. We typically
use about a 40% concentration. It is miscible in
water and I have not heard of it separating under
normal circumstances. Coca Cola syrup is
flammable, but we don't protect the soda aisle in
the grocery store according to NFPA 30.
At 07:20 AM 4/
Bob,
We have been adding just a 1" ball valve.
Dewayne
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bob
Knight
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 6:57 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Antifreeze
Look at the MSDS sheet.
Forest Wilson
-Original Message-
From: "George Church"
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:21:53
To:
Subject: RE: antifreeze combustibility?
I'm not a chemist nor do I play one on TV.
But I'd be surprised if Viking would develop a system and have FM Global
bless it w
Most anti freeze additives on the market appear to contain ethylene
glycol which (when I last looked) is certainly combustible. Whether it
is flammable depends on how you define 'flammable'. It has a fairly
high flashpoint > 110ºC so is not 'easy' to ignite with a match or a
spark but it ce
I'm not a chemist nor do I play one on TV.
But I'd be surprised if Viking would develop a system and have FM Global
bless it with fuel being discharged from ESFR sprinklers, so I doubt it is
an issue.
This is, of course, simply an observation. The Viking solution is special;
and there are two acce
There have been some rumors floating around about antifreeze
solutions and I would like to know what is fact and what is fantasy.
NFPA 13 (2007) references "The potential effectiveness of antifreeze
and water mixtures controlling a fire has come into question.". I
have on FM Global rep (wh
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