From NFPA 13-2007, 22.4.4.5.1, we are required to, among other things,
adjust the K-Factor.
Using the Hazen-Williams friction formula, 62.4 lb/ft3 / 144 in2 = .433
lb/in2/ft(h).
If we have an AF solution at 65.5 lb/ft3, / 144 = .455 lb/in2/ft(h).
If K=5.6, and we assume P=7 PSI.:
I'd be concerned that you have completely muddled up kfactors for someone who
no longer looks at it as the standard and industry practices do.
But why listen to us warning about sending novices out with the wrong
viewpoint?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2013, at 7:52 AM, Brad Casterline
Thanks George. I know of at least two teachers whom would agree with you.
But I never underestimate a Sprink, especially a student Sprink. I did
sprinkler calcs for 18 years and was still liable to say gravity? what's
gravity got to do with sprinkler calcs? Since the answer is only
everything, but
I have a customer that has a dry system that was installed sometime in the 50's
or early 60's. We are inspecting this system and notice that the trip times
are well over a minute, almost a minute and a half. Now a days that would be
no good; but how was that handled back then? It is a pipe
I would strongly caution against using this method for estimate calculations.
(Without doing extensive testing to verify that it is accurate)
The D-W and H-W calculation methods are simply approximations of how fluids
interact with themselves and the pipe they are in. The H-W equation and the
Per NFPA 13 the successful Dry System performance test requires water to the
inspectors test in 60 Seconds for brand new systems.
I don't believe there is a time limit according to NFPA 25.
Regards,
G. Tim Stone
G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC
NICET Level III Engineering Technician
Fire Protection
The old method was similar to the current one back in pipe schedule days,
or at least the language was. If it was under 500 gallons then it didn't
matter time wise. If it was 500 to 750 gallons and it couldn't make it in
60 seconds then you had to add a QOC, and then the time didn't matter. If
it
can I say strongly enough how much I agree with what Matt said? can I say
it again? And third time being the charm, I agree with what Matt said--a
lot--and with George's earlier comments.
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Matt Grise m...@afpsprink.com wrote:
I would strongly caution against
Thanks Matt and Ron. I appreciate ALL feedback.
I like posting numbers because there is no opinion, personal feelings,
hearsay, etc. I know a ton about D-W and H-W, and I do not need to repeat
the Velocity of Efflux experiments of the early 1600's to know I am correct
about K-Factors. Would it be
I have a customer who is looking to have a set of fire alarm drawings
reviewed and stamped by a PE who is licensed in Wisconsin.
If anyone is interested, drop me a line off forum and I will pass along
the contact information.
Thanks,
Dewayne Martinez
Fire Protection Design Manager
Total
Keep in mind that you started with a nominal K factor of 5.6. Per Table
6.2.3.1 (NFPA 13 - 2007), the range for the K factor under laboratory testing
conditions was 5.3 to 5.8. Just talking out loud, but I wonder if that
correction is really that important when the reality is the base number
Thanks John. This is not a physical change, and it should be called
Adjusting the Pressure. A denser fluid flows slower, so if we used K=5.6 and
P=7 PSI for the 65.5 lb/ft3 fluid, it would take 61.5 seconds to put 14.82
gallons on the floor, instead of 60 sec.. The higher the Pn, the faster it
Brad
I'd rather spend my remaining time with my wife and I'm licking myself for
saying anything. Btw who might be accepting this for the jurisdiction?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Brad Casterline bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com wrote:
Thanks Matt and Ron. I appreciate ALL
I love the 1. Typo. or 2. Auto Correct. or 3. Freudian ? or 4. Slotism.
...and I'm licking myself
You just keep hanging out with the woman and licking yourself. It's not a
pretty picture, but it will be now and forever be how I think of you.
As my father-in-laws dementia advanced, but
I've been hanging blinds, and just now have the time to note this most
extraordinary turn of the thread. I got nothing - this may be the greatest
correspondence in the history of the Forum.
Remember back in 1997 or thereabout, when an errant email home from some kid in
the Midwest (no, not
I about shit myself when I saw Licking instead of kicking after it was too late
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2013, at 9:34 PM, Steve Leyton st...@protectiondesign.com wrote:
I've been hanging blinds, and just now have the time to note this most
extraordinary turn of the thread. I got
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