I agree with your interpretation of my remarks. I know that the Committee
intended to require pressure treating and made changes to the rules to prevent
the widespread use of coated applications, however rules is
rules and equivalency is in the eye of the beholder and can be
Actually, the coating would be allowed under the equivalency clause with
approval of the AHJ.
With AHJ approval, the 3000 sq ft rule could also be ignored. Some years
ago, I made the mistake of saying no to this question while doing
interpretations for NFPA as a consultant and almost got them
I believe that you calculate it as a dry system only if you go over 200 gallons
in LH. Refer to Table F in the data sheets.
Regards,
Dale F. Wingard, SET
Designer Commercial/Marine Division
NICET IV #76284
Water-based Systems
Hiller Systems
A Division of The Hiller Companies, Inc.
3751 Joy
So wait, you have to calc as if it's a dry system per the manufacturer PLUS
if you're over 40 gallons you have to calculate Darcy Weisbach? So a
Dry-Darcy-Weisbach calc? Man, o man!
Darcy Weisbach seems counter intuitive to me... the more demanding
calculation requires larger pipe sizing which in
Greg, Cecil,
I just want to verify that if a Coating is applied, I will still need to
apply the 3,000SF design area rule because this in not Treated Lumber or
filled with noncombustible insulation.
Regards,
G. Tim Stone
G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC
NICET Level III Engineering Technician
Fire
Good morning.
I've looked at the flyer briefly and it certainly is moving in the right
direction.
With record lows in Minneapolis and many other locations that are colder than
-25°F in the northern tier of states I wouldn't do it unless it was a loading
dock or somewhere where water damage
Tim,
We specifically call for "treated" NOT "coated" if you are going to use that
exception. "Treated" wood requires a pressure treatment and the coating does
not qualify. (At least it hasn't met the 20 minute extended tests outlined in
the standard when we had discussed it.)
It should be
And the ones I have looked at had to be reapplied in the future. They have a
lifespan of effectiveness.
Respectfully,
Greg McGahan
4187 Farrington Rd. Milton, FL 32583
P- 850-637-8535
C- 850-712-9555
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On
Behalf Of Fpdcdesign via Sprinklerforum
Flame retardant coatings has to be installed according to strict guidelines
and the thickness of the coating needs to be verified after installation. Tends
to be expensive. Most projects I have worked on have junked that idea for that
reason.
>
> On Feb 10, 2021
Does the treatment render the wood compliant with the flame spread ratings and
other metrics that are used to determine whether or not a material is definable
as "noncombustible"?
Steve Leyton
(Sent from my smartphone; please excuse typos and voice-to-text corruptions.)
Original
I believe that this new listing came out in Dec 2020 for the larger capacities
for LH.
Regards,
Dale F. Wingard, SET
Designer Commercial/Marine Division
NICET IV #76284
Water-based Systems
Hiller Systems
A Division of The Hiller Companies, Inc.
3751 Joy Springs Drive
Mobile, AL 36693
c:
Project is a 100 year old 6 story Steel & Concrete Hotel building. The roof
is steel framed with concrete above and the Sixth floor ceiling is Plaster
over metal lath. Over the years the building has been added onto with wood
framing above the Sixth floor ceilings.
As Part of a major renovation
Per Tyco TFP1680 for the LFP Solution, Page 3 of 6 gives the criteria for use
to up 500 gal capacity. Now, that is only light hazard. 40 gal for OH and
Storage.
In a 13 system, there is the extra criteria for the >200 gal up to 500 gallon.
Maybe the rep was unaware of their data sheet.
I beg to differ.
I was looking into using the new TYCO A/F on one of my projects, but when I
met with one of their reps. I was advised that the listing is for system
volumes of 50 US gallons or less.
Best regards,
Larry
Larry Keeping. P.Eng.
Senior Technical Specialist
PLC FIRE SAFETY
Interesting stuff with the AF. It is good for up to 500 gal system capacity.
However, if you are over 200 gallons, you must calculate as a dry system. That
seems to negate the use of AF over 200 gallon capacity.
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, COC, SET
Engineering Manager
MFP Design
3356 E
Hey Scott and other cold weather practitioners in Fire Protection. Any feed
back on the “new” Tyco LFP antifreeze. Looks like it may have some use in
southern MN locations, but with Duluth at annual 99% extreme of -24.9 and 50
year extreme at -36.6 maybe not such a good idea yet. We plan on
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