RE: Interesting Article

Why would they have used antifreeze in a dwelling. The only time I design with that mixture is when the system is outside. Am I missing something. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

OFF FORUM HELP

Is there anyone who would be willing to help me off forum with some design questions and calculation questions? Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

thanks for offers

Thanks to everyone for the offers of help. I have found my answers this time but may have more later. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

pipe sizing question

worked for me but now I have someone questioning my method. Should I be going back to the pipe schedule method? Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: pipe sizing question

We mainly do new and add-on systems a few retrofits no grids no high piled storage no extra hazard. Usually all light and ordinary hazard. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: pipe sizing question

I'm not talking about calculations just about selecting the actual size of the pipe. Should I use a 1 pipe on 2 sprinklers or use a 1 pipe as long as the gpms are less than 10. I just want to know how people know or choose the size of pipe they use for each branch, sprig and main. Karen Purvis

Definition

Can anyone give me a definition of indicating shut-off valve. My guess is that it is an OS Y but don't know. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: Definition

Yes this answered the question, which of course was the answer I thought but was prompted to ask anyway. Thanks all. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From

mixed systems

Where in the code does it say that you cannot mix systems in an area. In other words if I have a large room that a section of the room is separated by a chain link fence and one side has a wet system and the other side needs a preaction system. Where does it tell me I can't do that? Karen

RE: mixed systems

The reason for the different system is that behind the fence is a switch gear (electric) and the owner does not want the chance that it will get wet. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: mixed systems

It is smoke detection activated and the other area is basically a hallway. The other questions I can't answer. I will look into these things but I mainly need to know can you mix systems in an area? Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101

RE: mixed systems

Yes I think you understand the area and it is an egress hallway. All of this is in the lower level or mechanical area of an airport. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original

RE: mixed systems

As for rest of hallway yes across its 4 or 5 feet but it's part of a maze of open hallways so where would you end the PA system. The question could go on and on. Thank you for all the help this forum rocks! Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite

concealed space

me or reading that in a 13R or 13D system if the areas mentioned were net being used or accessed then they did not need to be sprinkled. Is this something I dreamed up? Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865

RE: concealed space

Yes it is 13D and I did finally find the reference. Thanks Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: RE: concealed space

I went back and looked again an I was correct the first time, this will be done as a 13D system. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun

RE: RE: concealed space

No lets just say that Karen is doing 5 things at once and trying to get three jobs out and can't seem to keep them separate and keep confusing jobs. Doh.13R is the correct answer. Can the holiday get here any faster? Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central

RE: Friction Loss

I have one I could fax you. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

Safety factor

Can anyone tell me, does NFPA 13 or 14 say anything about a particular safety factor to be used in the hydraulic calculations? Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

Mixed occupancy

there is something other than residential in the building would I not need a backflow on the riser? Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: Mixed occupancy

I use the double check because there IS commercial or just use a single check BECAUSE its 13R. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun

RE: Mixed occupancy

You are right about the double check I have up to now always put one on a 13 or 13R system but while looking for something else I came across the 6.7.1.6 reference and it made it sound like for a 13R system you did not need it. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South

sprinkler calcs

into a ordinary hazard area. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org

Theaters

what there called) do I need to do something special there (other than covering above and below them)? Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: Limited Area sprinkler systems

I have done a few of these type systems. Usually the ones I have done involve a mechanical room with a gas furnace or an elevator equipment room. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

TN designers

Could someone who deals with Tennessee state FM contact me off forum at : kpur...@facilitysystems.org. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

Possible IBC question

of building. They claim that I can have the risers in the same room but that each building section must have a separate riser. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: Possible IBC question

The buildings are actually just additions to an existing building and they are separated by two adjacent fire walls. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From

Heat Tracing

I know that at one point I found a reference to heat tracing being allowed under certain conditions. Now I can't find it any help. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: Heat Tracing

THANK YOU Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf

RE: Evidence Room

I have done several prisons and have always counted any evidence room (either paper or object storage) as OHII. The fire Marshalls here have never sent it back to be changed. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

Attic Question

to sprinkle the entire attic, and would it need to be dry, or should I have them enclose the walkway and just sprinkle the mech room? Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

Solarium

the design has three extended coverage heads below the opening. They wanted us to put heads up at the apex of the window but through an exception now want us to put smoke detectors at the top and 10 (ten) heads around the sides. Does this sound unreasonable to anyone else? Karen Purvis Designer Facility

RE: Solarium

The only code cited was 8.6.4.1.3 but this is concerning pendent heads and we were designing using sidewalls and throwing across the area. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL

foward flow test

According to NFPA 13 10.10.2.5.1 I have to have a backflow prevention assembly but does not tell what that is or what it is to include. Can anyone give me that info? Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: foward flow test

of flowing the design water demand for the system. I showed a detail that included a zurn backflow going to an alarm check and on up to the FDC then to the riser. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

This group is awesome

Thanks to all for the help on the pit detail. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http

CAD DETAIL

I am in need of a typical city water pit detail showing valve arrangements if anyone could share one with me it will save me some time. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: Help with standpipe

That's ok I'm not running on all cylinder either your right about the 21'. The response before this by Art answered my confusion. I thought the 30' included any outlet that might or might not have to be placed on the roof. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville

Interior chair lift

is steel framed enclosure panels with panel inserts. Enclosure gates are also steel. My guess is that I would treat this as like a vertical shaft and have one head at the top and then cover the equipment room like I would an elevator equipment room but I am open for comments. Karen Purvis Designer

Standpipe Requirements

I have a question for anyone working today. There is a code somewhere that states when a standpipe must be used. I have searched through NFPA 14 and 13 and can not find the code. Does anyone know what and where that information is? Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St

RE: Standpipe Requirements

Thank you everyone. It helps if you look in the correct code book :). Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum

Need Help fast

. The only code I see that possibly address this is 21.20.1.2.1 and it only says you have to use automatic heads. Any help! Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: Need Help fast

Thank you to all who responded. My problem however is that the area that I am covering is not an atrium. It is a ramp that goes up three stories with exits at each floor. Since this is not labeled as an atrium do all the comments I have received still hold true? Karen Purvis Designer Facility

sprinkler group

I don't know if anyone is interested but if you are on Myspace there is now a sprinkler group: http://groups.myspace.com/firesprinkler Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

interconnection of standpipes

but the third one needs to go over an exposed area can it connect on the third floor to the closest pipe or is there a better way of connecting them. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: interconnection of standpipes

pressure is such that I will have to have a pump no matter what I do because the pressure is low to begin with. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL

Standpipe questions

? Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum

RE: Friction Loss

I would love to see a copy of yours and anyone else's spreadsheets for calcs. I am always trying to improve on what I have. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: Friction Loss

calcs by hand and so I created Excel spreadsheets to help. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Wednesday, July

Steam Room

be very high. Any thoughts on this. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http

RE: Steam Room

But the question still is; is there somewhere in the code that states that this is how you treat a steamroom. In other words do I have to have that area covered? Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original

RE: Steam Room

I could not find anything either but the engineer did not think it would need to be covered. Just trying to cover my bases. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED

NFPA Sprinkler editions

Question: Is/was there a 2003 edition of the NFPA 13? I have 2002 and 2007 Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum

RE: NFPA Sprinkler editions

That was what I thought but I got a markup saying it was 2003. Thanks. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants 714 S Gay St Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff Whitfield

Racquetball court

know these courts have been around for years so at some point someone has sprinkled them Any help would be great. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants Knoxville, TN 37902 865-246-0164 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum

RE: Racquetball court

No if you have ever played or watched anyone play you use the entire court. That includes floor ceiling and walls. The ball hits all over. Piping inside would obstruct play and a upright head would get hit a lot. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants Knoxville, TN 37902 865-246-0164

Floor Joist question

I have a situation where the building has a 1'9 wood floor joist construction and I am being asked if it needs to be sprinkled. If so what type and how many heads. I say that by 8.14.1.2.1 that it does not or may not need to be sprinkled but I just don't know. Any help would be great. Karen

RE: Floor Joist question

After looking back at my notes this system is a 13 system. The members are 2' deep wood web joist. So my guess is that we would treat it as a light hazard and use upright heads. Does this sound right? Then my next question is do I have to account for the web member obstructions? Karen Purvis

RE: Floor Joist question

This is not in the ceiling. This is the joist between two floors. Karen Purvis Designer Facility Systems Consultants Knoxville, TN 37902 865-246-0164 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:39 AM