Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Wols, I'm just acknowledging that I've read this message, but don't feel the need to say anything more in response, as we appear to have reached a point of clear-enough mutual understanding. I suggest that if you want to further discuss anything related that you start a new message, off of the

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 15/12/10 02:47, Darren Duncan wrote: > Wols Lists wrote: >> On 15/12/10 00:18, Darren Duncan wrote: >> The point I'm making is that a list doesn't contain any ordering *data* >> - it's inherent in the fact of a list. A list is an abstract concept. In >> Pick, I can store a data structure that

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Wols Lists wrote: > On 15/12/10 00:18, Darren Duncan wrote: > The point I'm making is that a list doesn't contain any ordering *data* > - it's inherent in the fact of a list. A list is an abstract concept. In > Pick, I can store a data structure that IS an abstract list. In an rdbms > I can't. >

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 15/12/10 00:18, Darren Duncan wrote: > Wols Lists wrote: >>> I think that part of the problem here is that you didn't define what >>> STORE means. So please clarify with examples as what you see >>> qualifies as "STORE a list" and what doesn't. >> >> As opposed to "model". To store something

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Wols Lists wrote: >> I think that part of the problem here is that you didn't define what >> STORE means. So please clarify with examples as what you see >> qualifies as "STORE a list" and what doesn't. > > As opposed to "model". To store something is to put it into the database > unchanged. To

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 14/12/10 19:49, Darren Duncan wrote: > Wols, > > I'm just going to say a few things right now for brevity rather than > individually responding to all your points. > > I think the point of a relational database is to provide an effective > and flexible tool for users to describe any reality,

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Wols, I'm just going to say a few things right now for brevity rather than individually responding to all your points. I think the point of a relational database is to provide an effective and flexible tool for users to describe any reality, and it is the job of the database to enforce any

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On Dec 14, 2010, at 5:26 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > Exactly the sort of answer I was afraid of ... but I think my answer is > going to horrify you as much as yours horrified me. "... he began yawning and looking at his watch..." ___ sqlite-users mailing

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Hi Duncan, Exactly the sort of answer I was afraid of ... but I think my answer is going to horrify you as much as yours horrified me. Let's explain. In antiquity, Euclid said "parallel lines never meet". He used that and logic to build a model of geometry (which other people then built on

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Wols Lists wrote: > On 13/12/10 22:44, Darren Duncan wrote: >> I am also very interested in these subjects. >> >> I believe that the relational model can accurately model anything in >> the real world, and that this can be implemented in efficient ways, >> with physical structure taking hints

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 13/12/10 22:44, Darren Duncan wrote: > I am also very interested in these subjects. > > I believe that the relational model can accurately model anything in > the real world, and that this can be implemented in efficient ways, > with physical structure taking hints from logical structure. But

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Wols Lists wrote: > Personally, I believe relational *technology* is fatally flawed by > design - there's nothing wrong with the maths, but you can't do > astronomy with classical physics and you can't do large information > stores with set theory :-) > > I know that's flame-bait, but let's

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Scott Hess wrote: > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Puneet Kishor wrote: >> Wols Lists wrote: >>> On 13/12/10 01:38, Darren Duncan wrote: Darren Duncan wrote: > Wols Lists wrote: >> Dunno how well that approach translates into a relational engine, >>

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Puneet Kishor wrote: > Wols Lists wrote: >> On 13/12/10 01:38, Darren Duncan wrote: >>> Darren Duncan wrote: Wols Lists wrote: > Dunno how well that approach translates into a relational engine, > because Pick has several very

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Wols Lists wrote: > On 13/12/10 01:38, Darren Duncan wrote: >> Darren Duncan wrote: >>> Wols Lists wrote: Dunno how well that approach translates into a relational engine, because Pick has several very non-relational quirks (every "row" MUST have a primary key, the dictionary

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 13/12/10 01:38, Darren Duncan wrote: > Darren Duncan wrote: >> Wols Lists wrote: >>> Dunno how well that approach translates into a relational engine, >>> because Pick has several very non-relational quirks (every "row" MUST >>> have a primary key, the dictionary DEscribes, not PREscribes the

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Darren Duncan wrote: > Wols Lists wrote: >> Dunno how well that approach translates into a relational engine, >> because Pick has several very non-relational quirks (every "row" MUST >> have a primary key, the dictionary DEscribes, not PREscribes the FILE, >> etc etc). > > Can you say more about

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Wols Lists wrote: > On 12/12/10 00:29, Darren Duncan wrote: >> Nonsense. An information schema is a *good* thing, and is generally the >> *best* >> tool for introspecting a database. It lets you use all the power features >> you >> have when querying data, anything a SELECT can do, and you

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 12/12/10 00:29, Darren Duncan wrote: > Petite Abeille wrote: >> On Dec 11, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: >> >>> Section 21 of the (SQL92) standard. >> Yes, the notorious information schema: > Nonsense. An information schema is a *good* thing, and is generally the > *best* > tool for

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 12 Dec 2010, at 10:38am, Petite Abeille wrote: > All in all, I'm all for a pragmatic implementation of Section 21 in SQLite. I see what you did there. Simon. ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On Dec 12, 2010, at 1:29 AM, Darren Duncan wrote: >> On Dec 11, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: >> >>> Section 21 of the (SQL92) standard. >> >> Yes, the notorious information schema: > > Nonsense. An information schema is a *good* thing, and is generally the > *best* > tool for

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

Petite Abeille wrote: > On Dec 11, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: > >> Section 21 of the (SQL92) standard. > > Yes, the notorious information schema: Nonsense. An information schema is a *good* thing, and is generally the *best* tool for introspecting a database. It lets you use all

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On Dec 11, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: > Section 21 of the (SQL92) standard. Yes, the notorious information schema: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_schema > It's absolutely horrible. Des goûts et des couleurs on ne discute point. > Let's try to avoid that if we can.

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 12/12/2010, at 1:48 AM, Simon Slavin wrote: > On 11 Dec 2010, at 2:28pm, BareFeetWare wrote: > >> I think there's an SQL standard for introspective queries, isn't there? Is >> it something like MySQL's "INFORMATION_SCHEMA Tables", as per?: >>

Re: [sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 11 Dec 2010, at 2:28pm, BareFeetWare wrote: > On 11/12/2010, at 12:58 PM, Petite Abeille wrote: > >> I'm in the opinion that a comprehensive data dictionary, accessible directly >> from SQL, is the way to go. > > Yes, yes, yes :-) > > I think there's an SQL standard for introspective

[sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 11/12/2010, at 12:58 PM, Petite Abeille wrote: > On Dec 11, 2010, at 2:29 AM, Simon Slavin wrote: > >> Then all the other PRAGMAs that do this could be removed > > While a consistent, comprehensive API would be nice, the problem with pragmas > is that, even though they return what looks

[sqlite] pragma vs select for introspection

On 11/12/2010, at 12:29 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: > The problem with foreign keys (and triggers !) as separate rows of > SQLITE_MASTER is that it would all have to be one long string, so you'd have > to write a parser. I'm not sure what you mean here. Triggers are already listed in