Re: platforms
Miles Fidelman wrote: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Rufus wrote: »Q« wrote: In news:1b2dnxuuo8asgchjnz2dnuu7-xodn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: [about communication wrt level of support for different platforms] Be professional. That's all I really want. Clearly, you have a vision of a much more professional SeaMonkey organization. But IME, telling a community of F/LOSS volunteers what they should do, without doing any of it yourself, is a lot like farting in the wind. Maybe you could open a dialog with the people who build the releases and type up what you learn about multi-platform support in a clear, professional manner? Anyone that posts feedback is a volunteer. We all do it. If one wants to get paid, one should get a paying job. Otherwise, if you're doing it for the sheer love of doing it, then do the best you can and stop whining about being a volunteer. There's a big difference in what one can demand of a paid employee and what one can demand of a volunteer. Volunteers donate their time as a gift that is not mandatory, so the recipient cannot reasonably impose conditions on the nature and manner of that donation. If one tries, one will just drive them away. A volunteer who says, don't push me! is warning against crossing that line, and a recipient who complains about whining is showing ingratitude for the gift and disrespect for the donor. Bottom line: if one is not paying for it, one is not entitled to anything. So one should ask nicely or STFU. Well, that's the dilemma of FOSS projects - long term professionalism and stewardship of the project. Some efforts - the Apache HTTPd Daemon, and the Linux kernel come to mind, as do Sendmail, Postfix, PostGress - embody a strong, on-term commitment to a quality piece of software, with quality support; other projects do not. Sometimes it involves creating a formal organization, perhaps with some funding and paid staff, or contribution of time by commercial entities with a vested interest. Sometimes it's through donations. Clearly Firefox and Thunderbird are actively maintained by the Mozilla Foundation, which promises a level of maintenance and professionalism - and it is reasonable to expect as much (particularly if one donates to the Foundation). SeaMonkey, on the other hand, is essentially abandonware, that has been picked up as a community project, only nominally under the aegis of the Mozilla Foundation. And the cracks in that model are starting to show - pieces of the code that aren't maintained at all (e.g, Composer), bugs that never get fixed, the recurring problems with each new release. While I'm sure we all appreciate the volunteer efforts of maintainers - it does seem that more and more people are abandoning SeaMonkey, and it might be reasonable to start asking - is it time for a new model for long term support? Miles Fidelman I think you have a point about SM showing it's age...and I'm sure there *is* some sort of biz ops structure somewhere...but I certainly can't figure out how it works - and maybe that's a problem in and of itself, if none of the folks working the project can, either? This is one of the things that turned me off when I first began participating and actively writing bugs on Bugzilla. I couldn't figure out how anything got accomplished, and watched a lot of UE stuff not being addressed - or even blatantly refused to be changed by *one* coder even though three others didn't concur with his implementation. So I fell back on my initial desire to get and stay actively involved. The team wanted UE experience, but when a user has an input, it seems it's generally ignored in deference to the under the hood geek-stuff. I would think that sheer *pride* in doing the things that make SM different, and stand out from it's parents would be the biggest motivator and driver to keeping those things alive, working properly, and improving...I thought that was what volunteerism was all about - not accolades. Or maybe, much like many big projects which collapse it's just plain gotten too big and is collapsing under it's own weight...maybe there are too many people working on it, and no consensus or direction can be had? -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey 2.32, problem with MathJax
On 19/01/2015 08:25 a.m., Thee Chicago Wolf (MVP) wrote: I'm using SeaMonkey 2.32 on Windows 7. With the previous version of SeaMonkey, I haven't had any problem looking at pages with MatJax embedded. Now, with this present version, 2.32, some symbols don't show up. If I use Firefox 34.0.5 I don't have any problem at all. Many thanks in advance, 34.0.5 is based on SM 2.31 so no surprise there. Does it reproduce with Firefox 35? Yes, with Firefox 35 I have the same problem as with SeaMonkey 2.32. Regards, -- Cesar ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
Rufus wrote: I would think that sheer *pride* in doing the things that make SM different, and stand out from it's parents would be the biggest motivator and driver to keeping those things alive, working properly, and improving...I thought that was what volunteerism was all about - not accolades. Or maybe, much like many big projects which collapse it's just plain gotten too big and is collapsing under it's own weight...maybe there are too many people working on it, and no consensus or direction can be had? If you've ever worked in a large organization, you'll know that different people have different motivations and hot buttons. Some people are most productive if you stroke them, some are most productive if you scold them, some are most productive if you leave them alone, and so forth. Pride is a common motivator, but not the only one. A successful manager will find what works for each person and push that button. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
Chris Ilias wrote: On 2015-01-19 9:39 PM, Rufus wrote: Actually, I *do* work in a very large organization...that produces, tests, and releases software for aircraft avionics. We have processes and hierarchy for what gets fixed, in what priority, and in accord with sets of guidelines...same holds for incorporation of improvements based on user/operator input. It doesn't matter who gets hot, bothered, or has a strong opinion - in the end, we all follow a set of rules and no *single* coder gets to break a set of standards or determine what sort of output there will be if more people disagree with his particular approach. There doesn't seem to be any management of what happens to SM...it seems to just get shotgunned. I may have made a rash assumption that someone was in charge of the SM developers...but it certainly didn't appear so in the dispute that halted my wanting to become more deeply involved. Folks, this discussion does not belong in a SeaMonkey support forum. Please take it somewhere else. Umm... gaining a better understanding of how SeaMonkey is supported is not relevant in a support forum. Not quite sure I understand that. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
Ed Mullen wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote on 1/19/2015 4:34 PM: P I am willing to be shown to be wrong but on this I do believe that Composer was abandoned long before SeaMonky became a project instead of a product of Mozilla. It has long laguished unserved and under-developed for, perhaps, decades. For good reasons. Actually, it's long taken on a life of it's own - see http://www.kompozer.net/ (formerly nvu, and before that... Composer - the one still in Netscape). In fact, there is little to be served by even discussing it. The notion of WYSIWYG Web design software is largely an abondoned issue. I go back to the 1970s with this. When companies tried to develop programs that created code from WYSIWYG UI input to create multimedia programs. Ummm... Adobe Dreamweaver anyone? There's still lot's of use for simple web pages. The notion that one has to program to put words on a web screen is just absurd for an awful lot of applications. Unfortunately, what tends to happen is words - office - PDF, or worse, to HTML generated by Word's horrendous exporter. Some people actually still write real documents - not silly interactive, ad-filled nonsense. For articles, papers, reports, spec sheets, tech. manuals, lots of things, you don't want to have to code to put words and diagrams on a screen. It never worked well enough to be successful. And I doubt it ever will. Countless companies I used to work with back that tried do do it back then are all gone. There is nothing better than humans knowing how to write correct code and doing it. Count the arrows in my back. I was a pioneer. I know this stuff. Back to the late 70s with Sony, Laserdisc, interactive video, all that. I was there, I spoke on it, sold it, marketed it. I wrote programs for it. Was National Marketing Manger for it. There is not likely, in my lifetime, any program that can take crappy user input via some friendly UI and turn into useful executable code, HTML, script, whatever. Just to use another example - every blog and wiki has a simple editor built in. Work just fine. The, perhaps, operative term there is in my lifetime. I'm almost 65. I sincerely doubt this will happen before my demise. I've been doing this since about 1982. I'm not from Missouri but, okay, Show me. I won't say definitively that it won't happen. But you can roll me over in my grave when it does. Just for the record, Only 60, but I've been doing it as long as you have. Publishing commercial gopher sites, well before this new fangled HTML stuff came along. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
Miles Fidelman wrote: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Rufus wrote: »Q« wrote: In news:1b2dnxuuo8asgchjnz2dnuu7-xodn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: [about communication wrt level of support for different platforms] Be professional. That's all I really want. Clearly, you have a vision of a much more professional SeaMonkey organization. But IME, telling a community of F/LOSS volunteers what they should do, without doing any of it yourself, is a lot like farting in the wind. Maybe you could open a dialog with the people who build the releases and type up what you learn about multi-platform support in a clear, professional manner? Anyone that posts feedback is a volunteer. We all do it. If one wants to get paid, one should get a paying job. Otherwise, if you're doing it for the sheer love of doing it, then do the best you can and stop whining about being a volunteer. There's a big difference in what one can demand of a paid employee and what one can demand of a volunteer. Volunteers donate their time as a gift that is not mandatory, so the recipient cannot reasonably impose conditions on the nature and manner of that donation. If one tries, one will just drive them away. A volunteer who says, don't push me! is warning against crossing that line, and a recipient who complains about whining is showing ingratitude for the gift and disrespect for the donor. Bottom line: if one is not paying for it, one is not entitled to anything. So one should ask nicely or STFU. Well, that's the dilemma of FOSS projects - long term professionalism and stewardship of the project. Some efforts - the Apache HTTPd Daemon, and the Linux kernel come to mind, as do Sendmail, Postfix, PostGress - embody a strong, on-term commitment to a quality piece of software, with quality support; other projects do not. Sometimes it involves creating a formal organization, perhaps with some funding and paid staff, or contribution of time by commercial entities with a vested interest. Sometimes it's through donations. Clearly Firefox and Thunderbird are actively maintained by the Mozilla Foundation, which promises a level of maintenance and professionalism - and it is reasonable to expect as much (particularly if one donates to the Foundation). SeaMonkey, on the other hand, is essentially abandonware, that has been picked up as a community project, only nominally under the aegis of the Mozilla Foundation. And the cracks in that model are starting to show - pieces of the code that aren't maintained at all (e.g, Composer), bugs that never get fixed, the recurring problems with each new release. While I'm sure we all appreciate the volunteer efforts of maintainers - it does seem that more and more people are abandoning SeaMonkey, and it might be reasonable to start asking - is it time for a new model for long term support? I've read enough gripes here to know SeaMonkey's not perfect (no program of any size is), but I've liked it well enough for long enough that I want to stick with it; I'll only leave if I'm forced out. I've used lots of commercial software that was much worse, so money alone is not the answer. Even so, I think SeaMonkey deserves better, and I hope the organizers will find a way to get it the support it deserves. The volunteers who are keeping it up clearly agree that it's worthwhile, and I'm glad they do. That's why I donate what time and expertise I have to offer. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
In news:gngdntvi8iz49cdjnz2dnuu7-uedn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: »Q« wrote: In news:1b2dnxuuo8asgchjnz2dnuu7-xodn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: [about communication wrt level of support for different platforms] Be professional. That's all I really want. Clearly, you have a vision of a much more professional SeaMonkey organization. But IME, telling a community of F/LOSS volunteers what they should do, without doing any of it yourself, is a lot like farting in the wind. Maybe you could open a dialog with the people who build the releases and type up what you learn about multi-platform support in a clear, professional manner? Anyone that posts feedback is a volunteer. We all do it. Sure. If one wants to get paid, one should get a paying job. Otherwise, if you're doing it for the sheer love of doing it, then do the best you can and stop whining about being a volunteer. You can do better than that; you can killfile people telling you how you should conduct your volunteer work without volunteering any effort (other than typing feedback) of their own. You posted feedback suggesting that the SM devs should do something, and I posted feedback suggesting that you should do something. Apparently, no one's about to say that guy's right! and get to work on either of our suggestions. And that's because that's not how anything gets done in F/LOSS projects, which was my point in the first place. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
In news:apednsozuy3pscdjnz2dnuu7-todn...@mozilla.org, Philip Chee philip.c...@gmail.com wrote: On 19/01/2015 14:26, Ant wrote: I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. That's odd. are standard delimiters for urls and have been for decades. There's probably a RFC on this. Yup, decades. RFC 1738, _Uniform Resource Locators (URL)_, 1994 Berners-Lee et al. TMI, I know, but I just happened to have it open in a tab and I couldn't resist. Any mailnews software that doesn't recognize those as delimiters is seriously broken. Mutt historically didn't do any URL-recognition. (I'm not even sure it does now; maybe it's really the terminal doing that for Ant's recipient.) Mutt users piped message bodies to something that does, usually urlview. I just tested urlview by piping a few messages to it, and it handles the delimiters fine. Ant, you might point the Mutt users towards that. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
In news:6rednsrhdyp6xidjnz2dnuu7-f2dn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: I don't care about any project being F/LOSS, volunteer, or whatever...leaning on that only sounds like an excuse. It's not a valid reason for inaction or non-responsiveness. A basic understanding of how F/LOSS projects work helps a lot if you're trying to work with one. As long as any mention of it sounds like an excuse to you, you can expect to make as much headway as you have so far. [crossposted and followup set to mozilla.general] ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
Ant wrote on 19/01/2015 18:48: I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? I also forgot to mention that I am using plain text formats for e-mails if that matters. I cannot figure out how to use HTML format to test if that makes any differences. :( From the Email window select Edit Mail and Newsgroups Account Settings... Composition and Addressing for the account you want to change. Then tick the Compose messages in HTML format check box. Thank you. Sheesh, I was looking in the wrong places. :( Anyways, I tried it there and it was linked without and symbols. I really dislike using these fancy HTML formats. I am old school. :/ Yes, but i used this (HTML) option for writing a mail. 1. If i don't use html commands, the mail is sent in pure plain text. 2. I have the choice when sending to send: a. in html and text b. in text c. in html so you can do Settings... Composition and Addressing for the account you want to change. Then tick the Compose messages in HTML format check box. And maintain your sending un plain text. The side-effect is the url you inserted will be without ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
WaltS48 wrote on 19/01/2015 17:59: On 01/19/2015 11:32 AM, Ray_Net wrote: Ant wrote on 19/01/2015 07:26: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) When i wrote http://www.microsoft.com i don't see nor my url is not surrounded. Here i insert a link to see what happens after sending http://www.microsoft.com then send all in plain text only. If I understand correctly he is on a page and uses Send This Page..., which opens the email compose window in SeaMonkey with the URL already inserted with the and surrounding it. I tried Send Page and Send link ... and both give me an url without the and surrounding it. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
Miles Fidelman wrote on 1/19/2015 4:34 PM: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Rufus wrote: »Q« wrote: In news:1b2dnxuuo8asgchjnz2dnuu7-xodn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: [about communication wrt level of support for different platforms] Be professional. That's all I really want. Clearly, you have a vision of a much more professional SeaMonkey organization. But IME, telling a community of F/LOSS volunteers what they should do, without doing any of it yourself, is a lot like farting in the wind. Maybe you could open a dialog with the people who build the releases and type up what you learn about multi-platform support in a clear, professional manner? Anyone that posts feedback is a volunteer. We all do it. If one wants to get paid, one should get a paying job. Otherwise, if you're doing it for the sheer love of doing it, then do the best you can and stop whining about being a volunteer. There's a big difference in what one can demand of a paid employee and what one can demand of a volunteer. Volunteers donate their time as a gift that is not mandatory, so the recipient cannot reasonably impose conditions on the nature and manner of that donation. If one tries, one will just drive them away. A volunteer who says, don't push me! is warning against crossing that line, and a recipient who complains about whining is showing ingratitude for the gift and disrespect for the donor. Bottom line: if one is not paying for it, one is not entitled to anything. So one should ask nicely or STFU. Well, that's the dilemma of FOSS projects - long term professionalism and stewardship of the project. Some efforts - the Apache HTTPd Daemon, and the Linux kernel come to mind, as do Sendmail, Postfix, PostGress - embody a strong, on-term commitment to a quality piece of software, with quality support; other projects do not. Sometimes it involves creating a formal organization, perhaps with some funding and paid staff, or contribution of time by commercial entities with a vested interest. Sometimes it's through donations. Clearly Firefox and Thunderbird are actively maintained by the Mozilla Foundation, which promises a level of maintenance and professionalism - and it is reasonable to expect as much (particularly if one donates to the Foundation). SeaMonkey, on the other hand, is essentially abandonware, that has been picked up as a community project, only nominally under the aegis of the Mozilla Foundation. And the cracks in that model are starting to show - pieces of the code that aren't maintained at all (e.g, Composer), bugs that never get fixed, the recurring problems with each new release. I am willing to be shown to be wrong but on this I do believe that Composer was abandoned long before SeaMonky became a project instead of a product of Mozilla. It has long laguished unserved and under-developed for, perhaps, decades. For good reasons. In fact, there is little to be served by even discussing it. The notion of WYSIWYG Web design software is largely an abondoned issue. I go back to the 1970s with this. When companies tried to develop programs that created code from WYSIWYG UI input to create multimedia programs. It never worked well enough to be successful. And I doubt it ever will. Countless companies I used to work with back that tried do do it back then are all gone. There is nothing better than humans knowing how to write correct code and doing it. Count the arrows in my back. I was a pioneer. I know this stuff. Back to the late 70s with Sony, Laserdisc, interactive video, all that. I was there, I spoke on it, sold it, marketed it. I wrote programs for it. Was National Marketing Manger for it. There is not likely, in my lifetime, any program that can take crappy user input via some friendly UI and turn into useful executable code, HTML, script, whatever. The, perhaps, operative term there is in my lifetime. I'm almost 65. I sincerely doubt this will happen before my demise. I've been doing this since about 1982. I'm not from Missouri but, okay, Show me. I won't say definitively that it won't happen. But you can roll me over in my grave when it does. -- Ed Mullen http://edmullen.net/ I'm too shy to express my sexual needs except over the phone to people I don't know. - Garry Shandling ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
On 2015-01-19 9:39 PM, Rufus wrote: Actually, I *do* work in a very large organization...that produces, tests, and releases software for aircraft avionics. We have processes and hierarchy for what gets fixed, in what priority, and in accord with sets of guidelines...same holds for incorporation of improvements based on user/operator input. It doesn't matter who gets hot, bothered, or has a strong opinion - in the end, we all follow a set of rules and no *single* coder gets to break a set of standards or determine what sort of output there will be if more people disagree with his particular approach. There doesn't seem to be any management of what happens to SM...it seems to just get shotgunned. I may have made a rash assumption that someone was in charge of the SM developers...but it certainly didn't appear so in the dispute that halted my wanting to become more deeply involved. Folks, this discussion does not belong in a SeaMonkey support forum. Please take it somewhere else. -- Chris Ilias http://ilias.ca Newsgroup moderator ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Rufus wrote: I would think that sheer *pride* in doing the things that make SM different, and stand out from it's parents would be the biggest motivator and driver to keeping those things alive, working properly, and improving...I thought that was what volunteerism was all about - not accolades. Or maybe, much like many big projects which collapse it's just plain gotten too big and is collapsing under it's own weight...maybe there are too many people working on it, and no consensus or direction can be had? If you've ever worked in a large organization, you'll know that different people have different motivations and hot buttons. Some people are most productive if you stroke them, some are most productive if you scold them, some are most productive if you leave them alone, and so forth. Pride is a common motivator, but not the only one. A successful manager will find what works for each person and push that button. Actually, I *do* work in a very large organization...that produces, tests, and releases software for aircraft avionics. We have processes and hierarchy for what gets fixed, in what priority, and in accord with sets of guidelines...same holds for incorporation of improvements based on user/operator input. It doesn't matter who gets hot, bothered, or has a strong opinion - in the end, we all follow a set of rules and no *single* coder gets to break a set of standards or determine what sort of output there will be if more people disagree with his particular approach. There doesn't seem to be any management of what happens to SM...it seems to just get shotgunned. I may have made a rash assumption that someone was in charge of the SM developers...but it certainly didn't appear so in the dispute that halted my wanting to become more deeply involved. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Rufus wrote: »Q« wrote: In news:1b2dnxuuo8asgchjnz2dnuu7-xodn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: [about communication wrt level of support for different platforms] Be professional. That's all I really want. Clearly, you have a vision of a much more professional SeaMonkey organization. But IME, telling a community of F/LOSS volunteers what they should do, without doing any of it yourself, is a lot like farting in the wind. Maybe you could open a dialog with the people who build the releases and type up what you learn about multi-platform support in a clear, professional manner? Anyone that posts feedback is a volunteer. We all do it. If one wants to get paid, one should get a paying job. Otherwise, if you're doing it for the sheer love of doing it, then do the best you can and stop whining about being a volunteer. There's a big difference in what one can demand of a paid employee and what one can demand of a volunteer. Volunteers donate their time as a gift that is not mandatory, so the recipient cannot reasonably impose conditions on the nature and manner of that donation. If one tries, one will just drive them away. A volunteer who says, don't push me! is warning against crossing that line, and a recipient who complains about whining is showing ingratitude for the gift and disrespect for the donor. Bottom line: if one is not paying for it, one is not entitled to anything. So one should ask nicely or STFU. ...excuses, excuses. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
»Q« wrote: In news:gngdntvi8iz49cdjnz2dnuu7-uedn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: »Q« wrote: In news:1b2dnxuuo8asgchjnz2dnuu7-xodn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: [about communication wrt level of support for different platforms] Be professional. That's all I really want. Clearly, you have a vision of a much more professional SeaMonkey organization. But IME, telling a community of F/LOSS volunteers what they should do, without doing any of it yourself, is a lot like farting in the wind. Maybe you could open a dialog with the people who build the releases and type up what you learn about multi-platform support in a clear, professional manner? Anyone that posts feedback is a volunteer. We all do it. Sure. If one wants to get paid, one should get a paying job. Otherwise, if you're doing it for the sheer love of doing it, then do the best you can and stop whining about being a volunteer. You can do better than that; you can killfile people telling you how you should conduct your volunteer work without volunteering any effort (other than typing feedback) of their own. You posted feedback suggesting that the SM devs should do something, and I posted feedback suggesting that you should do something. Apparently, no one's about to say that guy's right! and get to work on either of our suggestions. And that's because that's not how anything gets done in F/LOSS projects, which was my point in the first place. I did volunteer my efforts...only to find out that there is such disarray on the team that the team was not worth my time. I do write and maintain very detailed UE bug reports...or I did, in the beginning. The developers asked for someone to do that, for someone with UE experience...which I do professionally. But apparently, volunteers don't like hearing negative user feedback...which is *all* they are going to hear if they are actually interested in UE improvements (which I still see very little attention paid to). So...rather than whining about not getting paid, I quit trying to be formally involved because it was pretty clear that nothing was going to get done or fixed based on anything I had to offer. I don't care about any project being F/LOSS, volunteer, or whatever...leaning on that only sounds like an excuse. It's not a valid reason for inaction or non-responsiveness. Every time I hear this it comes across as we don't really *care* what we are doing. Which I don't believe either. At least I'd like to not believe that. I'd rather hear there isn't time, or there isn't expertise, or there isn't a way to do whatever, or mother Moz is stopping us...we're all geeks here, speak geek, and let us listen to that. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 1/19/2015 7:11 PM, »Q« wrote: Mutt historically didn't do any URL-recognition. (I'm not even sure it does now; maybe it's really the terminal doing that for Ant's recipient.) Mutt users piped message bodies to something that does, usually urlview. I just tested urlview by piping a few messages to it, and it handles the delimiters fine. Ant, you might point the Mutt users towards that. I don't see any urlview in my ~/.muttrc, but I did find auto_view text/html line. I am not worried about that. I am worried about other e-mail clients that I have no control over like EarthLink's webmail. -- This worker ant will be unemployed after Friday, the 23rd, as of 1/15/2015 @ 11 AM PST. :( /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 1/19/2015 3:33 PM, Ray_Net wrote: When i wrote http://www.microsoft.com i don't see nor my url is not surrounded. Here i insert a link to see what happens after sending http://www.microsoft.com then send all in plain text only. If I understand correctly he is on a page and uses Send This Page..., which opens the email compose window in SeaMonkey with the URL already inserted with the and surrounding it. I tried Send Page and Send link ... and both give me an url without the and surrounding it. Is that e-mail in plain text format? HTML format won't show and in URLs. -- This worker ant will be unemployed after Friday, the 23rd, as of 1/15/2015 @ 11 AM PST. :( /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Problems with Seamonkey 2.31 and 2.32
Juiceman wrote: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Burry wrote: On 18.01.15 23:57, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Ant wrote: On 1/16/2015 1:53 PM, Juiceman wrote: I have the same problem with both versions. When I go to http://failblog.cheezburger.com/ugliesttattoos there is a line of links next to where you see cheezburger. If you mouse over them a menu will drop down automatically with a bunch of links. It works fine with 2.30 and older versions. Also works fine with all versions of firefox. Anybody else have this problem? It looked fine in my v2.32 in a very old, updated Windows XP Pro SP3 machine. :) Looks fine to me, but there are no drop-downs. User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:34.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/34.0 SeaMonkey/2.31 Build identifier: 20141202220728 AdBlock Plus 2.6.7; disabling it has no effect. Mouseover is extremely slow, 5 to 15 seconds(xp sp3 FF ESR 24.5.0) Tried again, waited two full minutes, nothing. Comes up instantly on Internet Exploiter 11.0.9600.17501, update version 11.0.15. I will reinstall 2.32 and give it more time to mouse over and see what happens. With 2.30 it opens as soon as I mouse over the links. OK reinstalled 2.32 and the auto drop downs now work. Also no time lag. I didn't do any changes to settings. It took me 4 installs to get it to work right. Anyway thanks for the feedback and help! ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Problems with Seamonkey 2.31 and 2.32
Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Burry wrote: On 18.01.15 23:57, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Ant wrote: On 1/16/2015 1:53 PM, Juiceman wrote: I have the same problem with both versions. When I go to http://failblog.cheezburger.com/ugliesttattoos there is a line of links next to where you see cheezburger. If you mouse over them a menu will drop down automatically with a bunch of links. It works fine with 2.30 and older versions. Also works fine with all versions of firefox. Anybody else have this problem? It looked fine in my v2.32 in a very old, updated Windows XP Pro SP3 machine. :) Looks fine to me, but there are no drop-downs. User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:34.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/34.0 SeaMonkey/2.31 Build identifier: 20141202220728 AdBlock Plus 2.6.7; disabling it has no effect. Mouseover is extremely slow, 5 to 15 seconds(xp sp3 FF ESR 24.5.0) Tried again, waited two full minutes, nothing. Comes up instantly on Internet Exploiter 11.0.9600.17501, update version 11.0.15. I will reinstall 2.32 and give it more time to mouse over and see what happens. With 2.30 it opens as soon as I mouse over the links. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: can't set ssl cert exception - Workaround
As one who raised this issue a while back, I'd like to report back. Basic problem: Recent versions of SeaMonkey don't let you accept a self-signed IMAP server certificate (the view certificate and accept exception buttons are greyed out) . Bugs 1122239, reported 1/15 and 1117133 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1117133 reported 1/2 by me). Still marked as unconfirmed and unassigned. As far as I can tell, this stems from a bug in the underlying Firefox/Thunderbird certificate manager - fixed for Thunderbird, but not carried into SeaMonkey. Kind of a pain in that this is the season when certificates expire and have to be renewed. Found some workarounds: - temporary: keep using the previous certificate until it expires, hope the bug gets fixed (what I did until today, but the clock was running out) - use Thunderbird or another mail client (was it was looking like I was getting forced into) - if you can, become a certificate authority, sign your cert, install the associated root certificate into SeaMonkey Since we run an internal mail server, and generate our own keys - the last option is available to us. It took a couple of days to wade through the openssl documentation and various how-tos - but managed to get everything to work. In the interests of helping anybody else who finds themselves in this situation: - make sure to copy your current cert to .old, before starting to play -- getting everything to work is tricky, you may end up needing to revert, to keep reading mail - There's a really good guide to setting up the CA (Certification Authority) functions of openssl, generating root certificates, and then signing device certificates with them - one particular gotcha to watch out for, if you run UW-IMAPD: it stores it's server-side private key and certificate in the same file - so you have to: --- generate a key-pair --- generate a CSR (certificate signing request) --- sign the CSR to generate certificate --- then combine the private key and signed certificate into one file for use by imapd (take a look at your current working key, if you still have it) - there's a really good how-to at http://gagravarr.org/writing/openssl-certs/ -- it's where I found out about how to set up keying for uw-imapd - none of the other how-tos that I found mention that little nit. - one other thing - not sure if it's related or not (it uses separate keying and certificate) - but right after restarting the imap server, our postfix install stopped delivering mail - it just accumulated in the que - stopping and restarting it, and doing the same to the antispam daemon, solved the problem - but figured I'd mention it as something to keep an eye out for Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 19/01/2015 14:26, Ant wrote: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. That's odd. are standard delimiters for urls and have been for decades. There's probably a RFC on this. Any mailnews software that doesn't recognize those as delimiters is seriously broken. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? I've never received any complaints on this particular topic. Phil -- Philip Chee phi...@aleytys.pc.my, philip.c...@gmail.com http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief, oh Night, and so be good for us to pass. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Chase bank access bug fixed in SM 2.32
Ken Rudolph wrote: Using the PrefBar Customize, I get the User Agent Extlist box. But I'm not sure how to go from there. I tried putting in the Firefox user agent above in the Value box opposite Real UA and applying that. But it didn't affect the browser message at Chase.com. I know I'm doing something wrong...but I just don't have the competence to know what I'm doing at that level or precisely what I have to do. I'm also afraid of doing something that is irrevocable and would cause other problems. Oh, well. Looks like I missed the beginning of that procedural chain. Lemme try again. In the PrefBar tool bar, right-click on the toolbar, and select Customize PrefBar. You can also get to that via Edit - Preferences - PrefBar. From there, instructions as before: make sure you've dragged the User Agent item into the Enabled Items column, and then double-click User Agent to see the specific settings available. Smith ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
Ant wrote on 1/19/2015 1:26 AM: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) Send this page does not put ls gt around links for me. Maybe a little more info as to what exactly your process is would help. -- Ed Mullen http://edmullen.net/ All generalizations are false. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Problems with Seamonkey 2.31 and 2.32
On 19/01/15 17:01, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Burry wrote: On 18.01.15 23:57, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Ant wrote: On 1/16/2015 1:53 PM, Juiceman wrote: I have the same problem with both versions. When I go to http://failblog.cheezburger.com/ugliesttattoos there is a line of links next to where you see cheezburger. If you mouse over them a menu will drop down automatically with a bunch of links. It works fine with 2.30 and older versions. Also works fine with all versions of firefox. Anybody else have this problem? It looked fine in my v2.32 in a very old, updated Windows XP Pro SP3 machine. :) Looks fine to me, but there are no drop-downs. User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:34.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/34.0 SeaMonkey/2.31 Build identifier: 20141202220728 AdBlock Plus 2.6.7; disabling it has no effect. Mouseover is extremely slow, 5 to 15 seconds(xp sp3 FF ESR 24.5.0) Tried again, waited two full minutes, nothing. Comes up instantly on Internet Exploiter 11.0.9600.17501, update version 11.0.15. Just wondering!! Is the dancing effect a flash effect or whatever, and Paul doesn't have the whatever installed?? -- Daniel User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.32 Build identifier: 20141218225909 or User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.32 Build identifier: 20150101220549 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) When i wrote http://www.microsoft.com i don't see nor my url is not surrounded. Here i insert a link to see what happens after sending http://www.microsoft.com then send all in plain text only. If I understand correctly he is on a page and uses Send This Page..., which opens the email compose window in SeaMonkey with the URL already inserted with the and surrounding it. The problem is with his recipients using Mutt and Earthlink's webmail (maybe others) who receive the links as not clickable. Yes, that is correct. My test with SeaMonkey 2.31 sent to this account from my primary account works. I guess one method for him to try would be to remove the and before sending. Yes, I might have to do that for now on. :( But and are useful for very long and complex URLs when they are supported correctly. I guess I will have to do both ways (without and with). :( -- This worker ant will be unemployed after Friday, the 23rd, as of 1/15/2015 @ 11 AM PST. :( /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 1/19/2015 8:40 AM, David Wilkinson wrote: The brackets around a URI are specified in Appendix C of RFC 3986. They are especially important when a URI is part of non-HTML text and also when a URI is sufficiently lengthy that it requires more than a single line of text. Yes, I always use when I post links manually (I use plain text composition exclusively). Do your e-mail receivers get no linkables like in Mutt, EarthLink's Webmail, etc. I wonder what othern e-mail clients have this problem too. They basically get annoyed when links don't work, not linked, have to manually copy and paste, etc. :( -- This worker ant will be unemployed after Friday, the 23rd, as of 1/15/2015 @ 11 AM PST. :( /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
Ant wrote on 1/19/2015 12:05 PM: On 1/19/2015 7:40 AM, Ed Mullen wrote: I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) Send this page does not put ls gt around links for me. Maybe a little more info as to what exactly your process is would help. Really? For an example on http://www.insideredbox.com/?awt_l=FM.nQawt_m=JxnsMgKSPmK97L web page, send as page shows http://www.insideredbox.com/?awt_l=FM.nQawt_m=JxnsMgKSPmK97L in my SM v2.32 (and previous versions) e-mail composers. Yes, really. A right-click on those (or any) page produces this menu: http://edmullen.net/temp/sm_cap_001.jpg SeaMonkey 2.31 Beta 1 on Windows 7 Prof 64-bit. Only send option is Send this page. -- Ed Mullen http://edmullen.net/ Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice. - George Jackson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? I also forgot to mention that I am using plain text formats for e-mails if that matters. I cannot figure out how to use HTML format to test if that makes any differences. :( From the Email window select Edit Mail and Newsgroups Account Settings... Composition and Addressing for the account you want to change. Then tick the Compose messages in HTML format check box. Thank you. Sheesh, I was looking in the wrong places. :( Anyways, I tried it there and it was linked without and symbols. I really dislike using these fancy HTML formats. I am old school. :/ -- This worker ant will be unemployed after Friday, the 23rd, as of 1/15/2015 @ 11 AM PST. :( /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 1/19/2015 7:40 AM, Ed Mullen wrote: I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) Send this page does not put ls gt around links for me. Maybe a little more info as to what exactly your process is would help. Really? For an example on http://www.insideredbox.com/?awt_l=FM.nQawt_m=JxnsMgKSPmK97L web page, send as page shows http://www.insideredbox.com/?awt_l=FM.nQawt_m=JxnsMgKSPmK97L in my SM v2.32 (and previous versions) e-mail composers. -- This worker ant will be unemployed after Friday, the 23rd, as of 1/15/2015 @ 11 AM PST. :( /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 1/18/2015 10:26 PM, Ant wrote: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) I also forgot to mention that I am using plain text formats for e-mails if that matters. I cannot figure out how to use HTML format to test if that makes any differences. :( -- This worker ant will be unemployed after Friday, the 23rd, as of 1/15/2015 @ 11 AM PST. :( /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Problems with Seamonkey 2.31 and 2.32
Daniel wrote on 19/01/2015 13:06: On 19/01/15 17:01, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Burry wrote: On 18.01.15 23:57, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Ant wrote: On 1/16/2015 1:53 PM, Juiceman wrote: I have the same problem with both versions. When I go to http://failblog.cheezburger.com/ugliesttattoos there is a line of links next to where you see cheezburger. If you mouse over them a menu will drop down automatically with a bunch of links. It works fine with 2.30 and older versions. Also works fine with all versions of firefox. Anybody else have this problem? It looked fine in my v2.32 in a very old, updated Windows XP Pro SP3 machine. :) Looks fine to me, but there are no drop-downs. User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:34.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/34.0 SeaMonkey/2.31 Build identifier: 20141202220728 AdBlock Plus 2.6.7; disabling it has no effect. Mouseover is extremely slow, 5 to 15 seconds(xp sp3 FF ESR 24.5.0) Tried again, waited two full minutes, nothing. Comes up instantly on Internet Exploiter 11.0.9600.17501, update version 11.0.15. Just wondering!! Is the dancing effect a flash effect or whatever, and Paul doesn't have the whatever installed?? A javascript ? ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 1/18/2015 10:26 PM, Ant wrote: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) The brackets around a URI are specified in Appendix C of RFC 3986. They are especially important when a URI is part of non-HTML text and also when a URI is sufficiently lengthy that it requires more than a single line of text. -- David E. Ross I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can be used when autocomplete=off. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
Ant wrote on 19/01/2015 07:26: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) When i wrote http://www.microsoft.com i don't see nor my url is not surrounded. Here i insert a link to see what happens after sending http://www.microsoft.com then send all in plain text only. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
Ray_Net wrote on 1/19/2015 11:32 AM: Ant wrote on 19/01/2015 07:26: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) When i wrote http://www.microsoft.com i don't see nor my url is not surrounded. Here i insert a link to see what happens after sending http://www.microsoft.com then send all in plain text only. They are both active links. -- Ed Mullen http://edmullen.net/ Alzheimer's advantage: New friends every day. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 1/19/2015 8:30 AM, David E. Ross wrote: On 1/18/2015 10:26 PM, Ant wrote: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) The brackets around a URI are specified in Appendix C of RFC 3986. They are especially important when a URI is part of non-HTML text and also when a URI is sufficiently lengthy that it requires more than a single line of text. Oops. I selected Send too soon. On the other hand, the delimiters should not be used when composing a message on a Web page (e.g., Web mail) as those are also delimiters for HTML. Alternative delimiters include [] and . Note that bracketed URIs were properly handled by Eudora some 20 years ago. Any application or service that fails to handle them today is very, very wrong. See ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3986.txt. -- David E. Ross I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can be used when autocomplete=off. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
David E. Ross wrote: The brackets around a URI are specified in Appendix C of RFC 3986. They are especially important when a URI is part of non-HTML text and also when a URI is sufficiently lengthy that it requires more than a single line of text. Yes, I always use when I post links manually (I use plain text composition exclusively). -- David Wilkinson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 01/19/2015 11:32 AM, Ray_Net wrote: Ant wrote on 19/01/2015 07:26: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) When i wrote http://www.microsoft.com i don't see nor my url is not surrounded. Here i insert a link to see what happens after sending http://www.microsoft.com then send all in plain text only. If I understand correctly he is on a page and uses Send This Page..., which opens the email compose window in SeaMonkey with the URL already inserted with the and surrounding it. The problem is with his recipients using Mutt and Earthlink's webmail (maybe others) who receive the links as not clickable. My test with SeaMonkey 2.31 sent to this account from my primary account works. I guess one method for him to try would be to remove the and before sending. I notice Thunderbird (38.0a1 anyway) doesn't add the and , when I use Email Link in Firefox. -- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0a1 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
Ant wrote: On 1/18/2015 10:26 PM, Ant wrote: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) I also forgot to mention that I am using plain text formats for e-mails if that matters. I cannot figure out how to use HTML format to test if that makes any differences. :( From the Email window select Edit Mail and Newsgroups Account Settings... Composition and Addressing for the account you want to change. Then tick the Compose messages in HTML format check box. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
SeaMonkey donation page
Hi all, Where can I find the SeaMonkey donation page? ( I tried to and couldn't ) Thank you, JanWillem ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmark backups
Hurray! The bug is now fixed in 2.32 http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.32/ Thank you, programmers! :-) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 01/19/2015 12:32 PM, Ant wrote: I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) When i wrote http://www.microsoft.com i don't see nor my url is not surrounded. Here i insert a link to see what happens after sending http://www.microsoft.com then send all in plain text only. If I understand correctly he is on a page and uses Send This Page..., which opens the email compose window in SeaMonkey with the URL already inserted with the and surrounding it. The problem is with his recipients using Mutt and Earthlink's webmail (maybe others) who receive the links as not clickable. Yes, that is correct. My test with SeaMonkey 2.31 sent to this account from my primary account works. I guess one method for him to try would be to remove the and before sending. Yes, I might have to do that for now on. :( But and are useful for very long and complex URLs when they are supported correctly. I guess I will have to do both ways (without and with). :( Use the TinyURL generator site for the long ones. http://tinyurl.com/ -- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0a1 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
WaltS48 wrote on 1/19/2015 12:36 PM: Ant wrote: On 1/18/2015 10:26 PM, Ant wrote: Hello. I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Thank you in advance. :) I also forgot to mention that I am using plain text formats for e-mails if that matters. I cannot figure out how to use HTML format to test if that makes any differences. :( From the Email window select Edit Mail and Newsgroups Account Settings... Composition and Addressing for the account you want to change. Then tick the Compose messages in HTML format check box. Easier to hold Shift and click Compose. Also, that way the change is not permanent. -- Ed Mullen http://edmullen.net/ In the 60's, people took acid to make the world appear weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it appear normal. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey donation page
JanWillem wrote on 1/19/2015 12:35 PM: Hi all, Where can I find the SeaMonkey donation page? ( I tried to and couldn't ) Thank you, JanWillem Well, apparently it no longer exists. https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2014-10-28 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1081726 -- Ed Mullen http://edmullen.net/ Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Rufus wrote: »Q« wrote: In news:1b2dnxuuo8asgchjnz2dnuu7-xodn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: [about communication wrt level of support for different platforms] Be professional. That's all I really want. Clearly, you have a vision of a much more professional SeaMonkey organization. But IME, telling a community of F/LOSS volunteers what they should do, without doing any of it yourself, is a lot like farting in the wind. Maybe you could open a dialog with the people who build the releases and type up what you learn about multi-platform support in a clear, professional manner? Anyone that posts feedback is a volunteer. We all do it. If one wants to get paid, one should get a paying job. Otherwise, if you're doing it for the sheer love of doing it, then do the best you can and stop whining about being a volunteer. There's a big difference in what one can demand of a paid employee and what one can demand of a volunteer. Volunteers donate their time as a gift that is not mandatory, so the recipient cannot reasonably impose conditions on the nature and manner of that donation. If one tries, one will just drive them away. A volunteer who says, don't push me! is warning against crossing that line, and a recipient who complains about whining is showing ingratitude for the gift and disrespect for the donor. Bottom line: if one is not paying for it, one is not entitled to anything. So one should ask nicely or STFU. Well, that's the dilemma of FOSS projects - long term professionalism and stewardship of the project. Some efforts - the Apache HTTPd Daemon, and the Linux kernel come to mind, as do Sendmail, Postfix, PostGress - embody a strong, on-term commitment to a quality piece of software, with quality support; other projects do not. Sometimes it involves creating a formal organization, perhaps with some funding and paid staff, or contribution of time by commercial entities with a vested interest. Sometimes it's through donations. Clearly Firefox and Thunderbird are actively maintained by the Mozilla Foundation, which promises a level of maintenance and professionalism - and it is reasonable to expect as much (particularly if one donates to the Foundation). SeaMonkey, on the other hand, is essentially abandonware, that has been picked up as a community project, only nominally under the aegis of the Mozilla Foundation. And the cracks in that model are starting to show - pieces of the code that aren't maintained at all (e.g, Composer), bugs that never get fixed, the recurring problems with each new release. While I'm sure we all appreciate the volunteer efforts of maintainers - it does seem that more and more people are abandoning SeaMonkey, and it might be reasonable to start asking - is it time for a new model for long term support? Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
»Q« wrote: In news:1b2dnxuuo8asgchjnz2dnuu7-xodn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: [about communication wrt level of support for different platforms] Be professional. That's all I really want. Clearly, you have a vision of a much more professional SeaMonkey organization. But IME, telling a community of F/LOSS volunteers what they should do, without doing any of it yourself, is a lot like farting in the wind. Maybe you could open a dialog with the people who build the releases and type up what you learn about multi-platform support in a clear, professional manner? Anyone that posts feedback is a volunteer. We all do it. If one wants to get paid, one should get a paying job. Otherwise, if you're doing it for the sheer love of doing it, then do the best you can and stop whining about being a volunteer. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: platforms
Rufus wrote: »Q« wrote: In news:1b2dnxuuo8asgchjnz2dnuu7-xodn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: [about communication wrt level of support for different platforms] Be professional. That's all I really want. Clearly, you have a vision of a much more professional SeaMonkey organization. But IME, telling a community of F/LOSS volunteers what they should do, without doing any of it yourself, is a lot like farting in the wind. Maybe you could open a dialog with the people who build the releases and type up what you learn about multi-platform support in a clear, professional manner? Anyone that posts feedback is a volunteer. We all do it. If one wants to get paid, one should get a paying job. Otherwise, if you're doing it for the sheer love of doing it, then do the best you can and stop whining about being a volunteer. There's a big difference in what one can demand of a paid employee and what one can demand of a volunteer. Volunteers donate their time as a gift that is not mandatory, so the recipient cannot reasonably impose conditions on the nature and manner of that donation. If one tries, one will just drive them away. A volunteer who says, don't push me! is warning against crossing that line, and a recipient who complains about whining is showing ingratitude for the gift and disrespect for the donor. Bottom line: if one is not paying for it, one is not entitled to anything. So one should ask nicely or STFU. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 1/19/2015 9:49 AM, Ed Mullen wrote: I have a few receipts complain that my URLs are not clickable/linked (EarthLink's webmail) OR linked incorrectly (Mutt) because of and usages in SeaMonkey's composers. Is anyone else having this problem with other non-Mozilla e-mail readers from Mozilla users? It seems I cannot use and for URLs. How can I disable this feature when send this page feature on web pages? Send this page does not put ls gt around links for me. Maybe a little more info as to what exactly your process is would help. Really? For an example on http://www.insideredbox.com/?awt_l=FM.nQawt_m=JxnsMgKSPmK97L web page, send as page shows http://www.insideredbox.com/?awt_l=FM.nQawt_m=JxnsMgKSPmK97L in my SM v2.32 (and previous versions) e-mail composers. Yes, really. A right-click on those (or any) page produces this menu: http://edmullen.net/temp/sm_cap_001.jpg SeaMonkey 2.31 Beta 1 on Windows 7 Prof 64-bit. Only send option is Send this page. Wow, you have tons of options. Yeah, mine is similiar but I get and in my new e-mail draft. Also, it has to be in plain text format and not HTML format (no and ). -- This worker ant will be unemployed after Friday, the 23rd, as of 1/15/2015 @ 11 AM PST. :( /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Using and for URLs messing up for links.
On 1/19/2015 9:52 AM, WaltS48 wrote: Yes, I might have to do that for now on. :( But and are useful for very long and complex URLs when they are supported correctly. I guess I will have to do both ways (without and with). :( Use the TinyURL generator site for the long ones. http://tinyurl.com/ Yeah, I was hoping to avoid that to avoid multiple trips. :( -- This worker ant will be unemployed after Friday, the 23rd, as of 1/15/2015 @ 11 AM PST. :( /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
