date:20191031

Someone must have signed up the e-mail address of this company's help desk to 
receive notifications on posts to this newsgroup via Google Groups. So every 
time someone posts it goes there and they send a 'Thanks for the request' 
message.

Is there a Google Groups admin that can track that down and remove it?
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Re: Question marks (??????) are included in my messages - why?

2019-10-31 Thread Frog


Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2019-10-31, Frog wrote:


I have been informed that my messages sometimes include a series of
??.  I'm not sure why this happening and if in fact is is me or
something going on with the recipient computer.  It has been suggested
to me that it has to do with two different operating systems being
involved in the process (Microsoft and Apple).  Any thoughts how this
is happening and how I can stop the ?? would be appreciated.



Is this happening with e-mails you send via a Verizon SMTP server? If
so, here's what I wrote about it a couple months ago[1]:

 If this is what I think it is, it should only happen when you use
 the SMTP server from Verizon/AOL/Yahoo/...

 Try setting (for example, in about:config) the mail.strictly_mime
 preference to true, which, if I understand correctly, will make
 Mail use quoted-printable for outgoing messages.

 Bug 1435903 has some details about this:
 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1435903


[1] Message-ID: 


Thanks for your quick response...very much appreciated.

Yes, my server is Verizon and now AOL.  I made the change you suggested 
in your above message.  This is my first message after changing the 
false to true.  I will now wait a few days to see if it has solved my 
problem.


Thanks again for all of the responses sent my way.
Frog

P.S. I'm not sure what "Mail use quoted printable for outgoing 
messages" really means...care to give me a sentence or two on this topic?

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Re: Request received: Re: Loading Windows 10 on Used Computer - Advice ? ref:_00DU0Lfqj._5001v18tW39:ref

2019-10-31 Thread DoctorBill


Support TheFork wrote:

Hello ,

Thanks for your email. We have received your request 03595853 and it is being 
processed by our Support team.

To leave additional comments, please reply to this email.

Best,

TheFork team


TheFork, a TripAdvisor Company



WTH is THIS ! ?
I didn't do this!
? ? ? ? ? ?
DoctorBill
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

The Ultramon developer got back to me and said v3.4.1 should be fine with the 
latest Seamonkey and Windows 10. I did download it and try and Seamonkey Mail 
does start OK after that, but haven't tested extensively. Looks good. 
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-5, nor...@googlegroups.com 
wrote:
> On 31/10/19 14:53, BigBlue wrote:
> > ... Looks like something about UltraMon became incompatible with SeaMonkey 
> > Mail. I can certainly live without UltraMon for a while - more easily than 
> > living without Mail. I'll report a bug to them and see if they can fix 
> > things.
> 
> The product site says that you need v3.4.1 x64 
>  if your 
> W10 is 1809 or later, and W10 >= 1607 in any case. Apparently they broke 
> Chrome as well.
> 
> Having said that, it had better be pretty good at $40 a time. For 
> someone who hadn't already bought a licence, this 
>  or just the built-in W10 
> multi-monitor settings, might be enough.
> 
> /df
> 
> -- 
> London
> UK

It wasn't $40 when I bought it. I've been using it for maybe 10 years. Not sure 
which version I had, but I do still have a 3.4.0 download so that's probably 
the one. I can try 3.4.1 and see if that helps. Interestingly, Ultramon didn't 
break things though. My Seamonkey Mail worked fine for years with it. Something 
changed in Seamonkey and others like Mozilla and Chrome (or maybe Windows 
itself) that broke things. Definitely up to Ultramon to resolve though.

The good thing about Ultramon was the additional buttons it adds to windows to 
allow you to instantly move them over to the other monitor without having to 
drag across, plus the ability to maximize a window across both monitors. And 
other semi-minor tweaks.
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?


On 31/10/19 20:33, BigBlue wrote:

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 3:22:46 PM UTC-5, David H. Durgee wrote:


I must be missing something.  I am using Provider for Google Calendar
here with 2.49.5 without problems. >

How did you get that add-in installed? I can't find it in the 'search for 
add-ins' page.




"Released Sept. 16, 2018 245.8 KiB Works with SeaMonkey 2.49 - 2.60a1, 
Thunderbird 52.0 - 63.0a1"


/df

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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening


On 31/10/19 14:53, BigBlue wrote:

... Looks like something about UltraMon became incompatible with SeaMonkey 
Mail. I can certainly live without UltraMon for a while - more easily than 
living without Mail. I'll report a bug to them and see if they can fix things.


The product site says that you need v3.4.1 x64 
 if your 
W10 is 1809 or later, and W10 >= 1607 in any case. Apparently they broke 
Chrome as well.


Having said that, it had better be pretty good at $40 a time. For 
someone who hadn't already bought a licence, this 
 or just the built-in W10 
multi-monitor settings, might be enough.


/df

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Re: Question marks (??????) are included in my messages - why?

2019-10-31 Thread David E. Ross

On 10/31/2019 3:11 PM, Frog wrote:
> I have been informed that my messages sometimes include a series of 
> ??.  I'm not sure why this happening and if in fact is is me or 
> something going on with the recipient computer.  It has been suggested 
> to me that it has to do with two different operating systems being 
> involved in the process (Microsoft and Apple).  Any thoughts how this is 
> happening and how I can stop the ?? would be appreciated.
> 
> Frog
> 

Where in your messages do the question marks appear: in the Subject,
elsewhere in the header section, or in the body?

-- 
David E. Ross

Yahoo News: "Cubs to hire David Ross as new manager"
No, that is NOT me.
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Re: Question marks (??????) are included in my messages - why?

2019-10-31 Thread Paul B. Gallagher


Nuno Silva wrote:

Try setting (for example, in about:config) the mail.strictly_mime 
preference to true, which, if I understand correctly, will make 
Mail use quoted-printable for outgoing messages.


Is that equivalent to this?

Edit | Preferences | Mail & Newsgroups | Text Encoding | Composing Messages:
[x] For messages that contain 8-bit characters, use 'quoted printable' 
MIME encoding. Leave unchecked to send the messages as is.



P.S. Just wondering OT: since "messages" is plural, shouldn't we say 
"send the messages as are"? ;-)



--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Question marks (??????) are included in my messages - why?

2019-10-31 Thread Nuno Silva

On 2019-10-31, Frog wrote:

> I have been informed that my messages sometimes include a series of
> ??.  I'm not sure why this happening and if in fact is is me or
> something going on with the recipient computer.  It has been suggested
> to me that it has to do with two different operating systems being
> involved in the process (Microsoft and Apple).  Any thoughts how this
> is happening and how I can stop the ?? would be appreciated.

Is this happening with e-mails you send via a Verizon SMTP server? If
so, here's what I wrote about it a couple months ago[1]:

If this is what I think it is, it should only happen when you use
the SMTP server from Verizon/AOL/Yahoo/...

Try setting (for example, in about:config) the mail.strictly_mime
preference to true, which, if I understand correctly, will make
Mail use quoted-printable for outgoing messages.

Bug 1435903 has some details about this:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1435903

[1] Message-ID: 

-- 
Nuno Silva
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Re: Question marks

2019-10-31 Thread mozilla-lists . mbourne


Frog wrote:
I have been informed that my messages sometimes include a series of 
??.  I'm not sure why this happening and if in fact is is me or 
something going on with the recipient computer.  It has been suggested 
to me that it has to do with two different operating systems being 
involved in the process (Microsoft and Apple).  Any thoughts how this is 
happening and how I can stop the ?? would be appreciated.


There was something similar on a thread titled "Invalid Characters" 
starting 16th August 2019.  Possibly related to incorrect handling by 
Verizon/AOL/Yahoo (and others in the same group) SMTP servers.


Suggestion from Nuno Silva on that thread:

Try setting (for example, in about:config) the mail.strictly_mime
preference to true, which, if I understand correctly, will make
Mail use quoted-printable for outgoing messages.


I've noticed extra "?"s in email from my father, using Thunderbird to 
send through AOL, so need to see if that fix works for him... but I 
haven't got around to trying it yet.


--
Mark.

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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:08:25 PM UTC-5, David H. Durgee wrote:
> WaltS48 wrote:
> > On 10/31/19 4:22 PM, David H. Durgee wrote:
> >> Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> >>> WaltS48 wrote:
>  On 10/31/19 12:57 PM, BigBlue wrote:
> > Thanks. I believe I understand how it should work to set that up, but
> > something is just not working for me.
> >
> > I go to 'File... New... Calendar', choose 'On the Network', Choose
> > CalDAV as the format and enter a URL based on what you listed. It
> > opens a window to have me log into Google, which seems normal, and
> > when I do log in I grant permissions to Lightning for calendar
> > access. But when I click the new calendar from the list it doesn't
> > seem like it has synced anything. If I right-click and 'synchronize'
> > then it sits with a status of 'Checking Calendars...' without doing
> > anything.
> >
> > Was there something else that had to be set up in Google to make that
> > connection work?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
>  I tried creating the CalDAV calendar in my SeaMonkey 2.49.5 and it
>  appears it cannot be activated. Possibly due to
>  
> 
>  Looks like the SeaMonkey developer might need to add the bug fix to a
>  version of SeaMonkey and provide an update.
> 
> >>> Put it 3h ago into 2.53.1. Can not test it. Should be in Bills next
> >>> build. It will not be fixed for 2.49.5.
> >>>
> >>> FRG
> >>
> >> I must be missing something.  I am using Provider for Google Calendar
> >> here with 2.49.5 without problems.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> > 
> > You are missing reading and understanding the bug report.
> > 
> > The problem cropped up a few days ago.
> > 
> > No problem if you installed it before that date, or maybe it doesn't
> > appear with that old version of the extension.
> > 
> > Start SeaMonkey with a test profile, install the extension and try
> > creating a new Google calendar.
> > 
> > Let us know what happens.
> > 
> 
> No need if that is the issue.  Sounds like the work-around until this is
> fixed would be to back level, install the extension and then upgrade.
> 
> Dave

Is it the Seamonkey version or the extension version that is the problem?
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Question marks (??????) are included in my messages - why?

2019-10-31 Thread Frog

I have been informed that my messages sometimes include a series of 
??.  I'm not sure why this happening and if in fact is is me or 
something going on with the recipient computer.  It has been suggested 
to me that it has to do with two different operating systems being 
involved in the process (Microsoft and Apple).  Any thoughts how this is 
happening and how I can stop the ?? would be appreciated.


Frog
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

2019-10-31 Thread David H. Durgee

WaltS48 wrote:
> On 10/31/19 4:22 PM, David H. Durgee wrote:
>> Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
>>> WaltS48 wrote:
 On 10/31/19 12:57 PM, BigBlue wrote:
> Thanks. I believe I understand how it should work to set that up, but
> something is just not working for me.
>
> I go to 'File... New... Calendar', choose 'On the Network', Choose
> CalDAV as the format and enter a URL based on what you listed. It
> opens a window to have me log into Google, which seems normal, and
> when I do log in I grant permissions to Lightning for calendar
> access. But when I click the new calendar from the list it doesn't
> seem like it has synced anything. If I right-click and 'synchronize'
> then it sits with a status of 'Checking Calendars...' without doing
> anything.
>
> Was there something else that had to be set up in Google to make that
> connection work?
>
> Thanks.
>
 I tried creating the CalDAV calendar in my SeaMonkey 2.49.5 and it
 appears it cannot be activated. Possibly due to
 

 Looks like the SeaMonkey developer might need to add the bug fix to a
 version of SeaMonkey and provide an update.

>>> Put it 3h ago into 2.53.1. Can not test it. Should be in Bills next
>>> build. It will not be fixed for 2.49.5.
>>>
>>> FRG
>>
>> I must be missing something.  I am using Provider for Google Calendar
>> here with 2.49.5 without problems.
>>
>> Dave
>>
> 
> You are missing reading and understanding the bug report.
> 
> The problem cropped up a few days ago.
> 
> No problem if you installed it before that date, or maybe it doesn't
> appear with that old version of the extension.
> 
> Start SeaMonkey with a test profile, install the extension and try
> creating a new Google calendar.
> 
> Let us know what happens.
> 

No need if that is the issue.  Sounds like the work-around until this is
fixed would be to back level, install the extension and then upgrade.

Dave
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?


On 10/31/19 4:22 PM, David H. Durgee wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 10/31/19 12:57 PM, BigBlue wrote:

Thanks. I believe I understand how it should work to set that up, but
something is just not working for me.

I go to 'File... New... Calendar', choose 'On the Network', Choose
CalDAV as the format and enter a URL based on what you listed. It
opens a window to have me log into Google, which seems normal, and
when I do log in I grant permissions to Lightning for calendar
access. But when I click the new calendar from the list it doesn't
seem like it has synced anything. If I right-click and 'synchronize'
then it sits with a status of 'Checking Calendars...' without doing
anything.

Was there something else that had to be set up in Google to make that
connection work?

Thanks.


I tried creating the CalDAV calendar in my SeaMonkey 2.49.5 and it
appears it cannot be activated. Possibly due to


Looks like the SeaMonkey developer might need to add the bug fix to a
version of SeaMonkey and provide an update.


Put it 3h ago into 2.53.1. Can not test it. Should be in Bills next
build. It will not be fixed for 2.49.5.

FRG


I must be missing something.  I am using Provider for Google Calendar
here with 2.49.5 without problems.

Dave



You are missing reading and understanding the bug report.

The problem cropped up a few days ago.

No problem if you installed it before that date, or maybe it doesn't 
appear with that old version of the extension.


Start SeaMonkey with a test profile, install the extension and try 
creating a new Google calendar.


Let us know what happens.

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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 3:22:46 PM UTC-5, David H. Durgee wrote:
> 
> I must be missing something.  I am using Provider for Google Calendar
> here with 2.49.5 without problems.
> 
> Dave

How did you get that add-in installed? I can't find it in the 'search for 
add-ins' page. 
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

2019-10-31 Thread David H. Durgee

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 10/31/19 12:57 PM, BigBlue wrote:
>>> Thanks. I believe I understand how it should work to set that up, but
>>> something is just not working for me.
>>>
>>> I go to 'File... New... Calendar', choose 'On the Network', Choose
>>> CalDAV as the format and enter a URL based on what you listed. It
>>> opens a window to have me log into Google, which seems normal, and
>>> when I do log in I grant permissions to Lightning for calendar
>>> access. But when I click the new calendar from the list it doesn't
>>> seem like it has synced anything. If I right-click and 'synchronize'
>>> then it sits with a status of 'Checking Calendars...' without doing
>>> anything.
>>>
>>> Was there something else that had to be set up in Google to make that
>>> connection work?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>> I tried creating the CalDAV calendar in my SeaMonkey 2.49.5 and it
>> appears it cannot be activated. Possibly due to
>> 
>>
>> Looks like the SeaMonkey developer might need to add the bug fix to a
>> version of SeaMonkey and provide an update.
>>
> Put it 3h ago into 2.53.1. Can not test it. Should be in Bills next
> build. It will not be fixed for 2.49.5.
> 
> FRG

I must be missing something.  I am using Provider for Google Calendar
here with 2.49.5 without problems.

Dave
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?


On 10/31/19 4:03 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 10/31/19 12:57 PM, BigBlue wrote:
Thanks. I believe I understand how it should work to set that up, but 
something is just not working for me.


I go to 'File... New... Calendar', choose 'On the Network', Choose 
CalDAV as the format and enter a URL based on what you listed. It 
opens a window to have me log into Google, which seems normal, and 
when I do log in I grant permissions to Lightning for calendar 
access. But when I click the new calendar from the list it doesn't 
seem like it has synced anything. If I right-click and 'synchronize' 
then it sits with a status of 'Checking Calendars...' without doing 
anything.


Was there something else that had to be set up in Google to make that 
connection work?


Thanks.

I tried creating the CalDAV calendar in my SeaMonkey 2.49.5 and it 
appears it cannot be activated. Possibly due to 



Looks like the SeaMonkey developer might need to add the bug fix to a 
version of SeaMonkey and provide an update.


Put it 3h ago into 2.53.1. Can not test it. Should be in Bills next 
build. It will not be fixed for 2.49.5.


FRG


I should download and install a Bill's build for testing purposes.

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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?


WaltS48 wrote:

On 10/31/19 12:57 PM, BigBlue wrote:
Thanks. I believe I understand how it should work to set that up, but 
something is just not working for me.


I go to 'File... New... Calendar', choose 'On the Network', Choose CalDAV as 
the format and enter a URL based on what you listed. It opens a window to 
have me log into Google, which seems normal, and when I do log in I grant 
permissions to Lightning for calendar access. But when I click the new 
calendar from the list it doesn't seem like it has synced anything. If I 
right-click and 'synchronize' then it sits with a status of 'Checking 
Calendars...' without doing anything.


Was there something else that had to be set up in Google to make that 
connection work?


Thanks.

I tried creating the CalDAV calendar in my SeaMonkey 2.49.5 and it appears it 
cannot be activated. Possibly due to 



Looks like the SeaMonkey developer might need to add the bug fix to a version 
of SeaMonkey and provide an update.


Put it 3h ago into 2.53.1. Can not test it. Should be in Bills next build. It 
will not be fixed for 2.49.5.


FRG
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

> Thanks. I'll check into the possible workaround mentioned there and see if 
> that helps.

Seems that I already had general.useragent.compatMode.firefox=true, so 
apparently the workaround they describe doesn't help the Google Calendar 
integration.

I guess I'll make note of things and watch for the patch to make it to 
Seamonkey someday and then try again.
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 12:26:05 PM UTC-5, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 10/31/19 12:57 PM, BigBlue wrote:
> > Thanks. I believe I understand how it should work to set that up, but 
> > something is just not working for me.
> > 
> > I go to 'File... New... Calendar', choose 'On the Network', Choose CalDAV 
> > as the format and enter a URL based on what you listed. It opens a window 
> > to have me log into Google, which seems normal, and when I do log in I 
> > grant permissions to Lightning for calendar access. But when I click the 
> > new calendar from the list it doesn't seem like it has synced anything. If 
> > I right-click and 'synchronize' then it sits with a status of 'Checking 
> > Calendars...' without doing anything.
> > 
> > Was there something else that had to be set up in Google to make that 
> > connection work?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> I tried creating the CalDAV calendar in my SeaMonkey 2.49.5 and it 
> appears it cannot be activated. Possibly due to 
> 
> 
> Looks like the SeaMonkey developer might need to add the bug fix to a 
> version of SeaMonkey and provide an update.
> 
> -- 
> OS: Ubuntu Linux 18.04LTS - Gnome Desktop
> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/

Thanks. I'll check into the possible workaround mentioned there and see if that 
helps.
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?


On 10/31/19 12:57 PM, BigBlue wrote:

Thanks. I believe I understand how it should work to set that up, but something 
is just not working for me.

I go to 'File... New... Calendar', choose 'On the Network', Choose CalDAV as 
the format and enter a URL based on what you listed. It opens a window to have 
me log into Google, which seems normal, and when I do log in I grant 
permissions to Lightning for calendar access. But when I click the new calendar 
from the list it doesn't seem like it has synced anything. If I right-click and 
'synchronize' then it sits with a status of 'Checking Calendars...' without 
doing anything.

Was there something else that had to be set up in Google to make that 
connection work?

Thanks.

I tried creating the CalDAV calendar in my SeaMonkey 2.49.5 and it 
appears it cannot be activated. Possibly due to 



Looks like the SeaMonkey developer might need to add the bug fix to a 
version of SeaMonkey and provide an update.


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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

Meh... looks like that may be a read-only interface. Back to my prior questions 
about CalDAV...
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

So I went into settings for my Google calendar and found an 'integration' 
section with a private URL for iCal integration. I re-did the setup in 
Seamonkey and chose iCal instead of CalDAV and now it seems to work. At least 
it has synced my events. Haven't had time to fully test everything though.

Thanks.
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

Thanks. I believe I understand how it should work to set that up, but something 
is just not working for me.

I go to 'File... New... Calendar', choose 'On the Network', Choose CalDAV as 
the format and enter a URL based on what you listed. It opens a window to have 
me log into Google, which seems normal, and when I do log in I grant 
permissions to Lightning for calendar access. But when I click the new calendar 
from the list it doesn't seem like it has synced anything. If I right-click and 
'synchronize' then it sits with a status of 'Checking Calendars...' without 
doing anything.

Was there something else that had to be set up in Google to make that 
connection work?

Thanks.
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Re: error opening seamonkey in Linux


On 10/31/19 12:28 PM, martinlant...@gmail.com wrote:

thanks! i'll try that.



Trying to install the 64-bit version on a 32-bit operating system?

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Re: error opening seamonkey in Linux

2019-10-31 Thread martinlantink

thanks! i'll try that.
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Re: Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?


On 10/31/19 11:44 AM, BigBlue wrote:

I see that in the new version of Seamonkey Mail there is an Add-on called Lightning that 
provides calendar functionality. That might be useful if I could link it to my Google 
calendar. I searched and found a "Provider for Google Calendar" Add-on that 
seems to do just that but I think it may only work with Thunderbird directly, not 
Seamonkey Mail. Is that the case? I can't find it via the Seamonkey Add-on search.

Is there any other way to connect Lightning in Seamonkey with Google calendar?

https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/provider-for-google-calendar/

Thanks.



I have been using CalDAV to connect to my Google calendar.

I believe this is the URL you would use in the Location field when 
setting it up.


https://apidata.googleusercontent.com/caldav/v2/your-email-address/events

Be sure to replace your email address.

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Lightning calendar tool linked to Google calendar?

I see that in the new version of Seamonkey Mail there is an Add-on called 
Lightning that provides calendar functionality. That might be useful if I could 
link it to my Google calendar. I searched and found a "Provider for Google 
Calendar" Add-on that seems to do just that but I think it may only work with 
Thunderbird directly, not Seamonkey Mail. Is that the case? I can't find it via 
the Seamonkey Add-on search. 

Is there any other way to connect Lightning in Seamonkey with Google calendar?

https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/provider-for-google-calendar/

Thanks.
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Re: what is realistic for the next release?


Hawker wrote:

On 10/29/2019 7:08 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Hawker wrote:


Thank you for this great and thorough reply and all the info you gave below as 
well. This was exactly the clear concise information I was looking for.


Also thank you very much for your work on the project against all the odds and 
lack of help.  Some of us are still really hooked on SM.


Me too or I wouldn't do it :)

Speaking for me I see the handwriting on the wall and assume with x.57 being 
the end of the line (and a late release) I will need to move on at some point. 


Seriously enjoy while it lasts and if you go back in time in the newsgroups 
you see exactly the same threads about the imminent death of SeaMonkey around 
the corner. So fast forward to now and it is still here :)


I have tried to move to other browsers but I don't like any of them. FF has a 
few deal breakers in how it handles privacy that make it not usable for me and 
others lack features I depend on.

It reminds me of how long I clinged to Netscape 4.8 until MozSuite caught up.


New Chromium Edge looks ok as a second browser and I am no MS fan. But 
SeaMonkey is still a lot more usable to me.


If Email is the big issue with the new releases that is a non issue for me. 
Alas I had to move my e-mail to TB a couple years ago when it became apparent 
SM would not get TBs search capabilities and the SM mail client was getting 
crazy sluggish and having trouble handling my huge e-mail base that TB didn't 
seem to have issues with. I kept having to split directories to smaller chunks 
so it was usable and not sluggish, a problem TB didn't have. I don't care for 
TB as much as SM but I had to much e-mail to have those issues on my work files.


2.57 should cure this. RDF needs to go which means it will get more or less 
the same code as TB unless we reinvent the wheel (unlikely). Just not the 
interface which will stay :) 2.53 is already a lot better. I had serious 
problems and crashes in 2.4x releases with IMAP. All gone. TB devs also fixed 
a lot of bugs in the backend and mozilla in Gecko. They gutted the frontend 
but not all bad in the backyard.


FRG
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:16:02 AM UTC-5, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> BigBlue wrote:
> > That's it! Thanks for pointing me to the crash report. I had no idea that 
> > existed. The crash report indicated the failure was with 
> > rtsultramonhookx32.dll. That sounded familiar so I checked and it is 
> > related to multi-monitor software I had installed called UltraMon (which 
> > has always been a very useful tool for me, but I don't use its features as 
> > much as I used to). To check the relationship, I uninstalled it and now I 
> > can launch Mail without any issue. Looks like something about UltraMon 
> > became incompatible with SeaMonkey Mail. I can certainly live without 
> > UltraMon for a while - more easily than living without Mail. I'll report a 
> > bug to them and see if they can fix things.
> > 
> > Thanks a ton!!
> > 
> 
> Just searching for it shows similar reports for Firefox and other software:
> 
> https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/d49d0f06-2e09-44bb-88d5-d97bf0181227#tab-details
> 
> This needs to be fixed in ultramon.
> 
> FRG


Yep. I contacted RealTimeSoft and let them know. Not sure if they still support 
UltraMon. Last release was Oct 4, 2018.
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening


budkrueg...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:16:24 PM UTC-4, BigBlue wrote:

[Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]

Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-ons I 
know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that could 
allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?

Thanks!


I'm getting worried. I still have 2.49.4 and it is working fine.  These recent 
threads about serious problems with any version after 2.49.4 has me leery of 
updating to 2.49.5.  These threads tell me that you folks are obviously out of 
my league of expertise. Is it safe for me to go to 2.49.5?  TIA.  Bud Krueger



We monitored the crash stats after release and there is nothing which stands 
out. I ran 2.49.5 for at least a year before switiching to 2.53.
One of the  problems is that recent third party antivirus release become more 
and more a virus itself. Windows 10 updates are not always stable too. Linux 
becomes more fragmented every year and macOS stability isn't that great either 
any longer. If 2.49.5 does not work for you you can always reinstall 2.49.4 again.


FRG
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening


BigBlue wrote:

That's it! Thanks for pointing me to the crash report. I had no idea that 
existed. The crash report indicated the failure was with 
rtsultramonhookx32.dll. That sounded familiar so I checked and it is related to 
multi-monitor software I had installed called UltraMon (which has always been a 
very useful tool for me, but I don't use its features as much as I used to). To 
check the relationship, I uninstalled it and now I can launch Mail without any 
issue. Looks like something about UltraMon became incompatible with SeaMonkey 
Mail. I can certainly live without UltraMon for a while - more easily than 
living without Mail. I'll report a bug to them and see if they can fix things.

Thanks a ton!!



Just searching for it shows similar reports for Firefox and other software:

https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/d49d0f06-2e09-44bb-88d5-d97bf0181227#tab-details

This needs to be fixed in ultramon.

FRG
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

That's it! Thanks for pointing me to the crash report. I had no idea that 
existed. The crash report indicated the failure was with 
rtsultramonhookx32.dll. That sounded familiar so I checked and it is related to 
multi-monitor software I had installed called UltraMon (which has always been a 
very useful tool for me, but I don't use its features as much as I used to). To 
check the relationship, I uninstalled it and now I can launch Mail without any 
issue. Looks like something about UltraMon became incompatible with SeaMonkey 
Mail. I can certainly live without UltraMon for a while - more easily than 
living without Mail. I'll report a bug to them and see if they can fix things.

Thanks a ton!!
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 9:10:46 AM UTC-5, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 10/31/19 8:49 AM, BigBlue wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:39:27 AM UTC-5, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> >> BigBlue wrote:
> >>> [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
> >>>
> >>
> >>> Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or 
> >>> add-ons I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe 
> >>> mode that could allow mail to start when all of the other things are 
> >>> ruled out?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>
> >> Video driver antivirus? Best to post a crash id.
> >>
> >> FRG
> > 
> > I have active AV and I did run MalwareBytes to double-check. What does it 
> > mean to post a crash id?
> > 
> 
> It means you type about:crashes into the address bar, then copy the most 
> recent link and post it into a reply.
> 
> -- 
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> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/


Gotcha. Here's one I just created:
bp-b68ef33c-85b1-476d-a74d-0fc860191031

http://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/bp-b68ef33c-85b1-476d-a74d-0fc860191031

As for trying 32-bit vs. 64 bit, I haven't done that. I suppose I can give it a 
try.

Thanks.
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

2019-10-31 Thread budkrueger3

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:16:24 PM UTC-4, BigBlue wrote:
> [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
> 
> I've used Seamonkey for many years, mainly for the Mail client. Love it. For 
> the past couple of months I've had problems when starting Mail (using 
> v2.49.2) where it would crash almost immediately after opening. It would, 
> however, instantiate the Mail window for a second or so, and sometimes if I 
> clicked into a folder in one of my mail accounts in that initial second it 
> would just work normally. Usually took me 4-6 startup attempts to get it to 
> stay running. Once running it was mostly solid for until I rebooted or exited 
> Mail. Nothing else was affected. I could run Browser, Address Book, Composer 
> just fine all the time.
> 
> Yesterday I realized that Seamonkey was no longer auto-updating so I updated 
> manually to 2.49.5 (latest). With this version the crashes still happen but 
> are now immediate after launching it (either directly via the -mail flag or 
> by clicking the envelope icon in Browser). It doesn't launch the window at 
> all now so my trick above is useless.
> 
> I tried all the usual troubleshooting steps:
> 
>  - Start with a new profile. With a new profile it will run Mail one time, 
> but on the next launch it goes back to crashing. This is regardless of 
> whether I set up a mail account or not. 
>  - Clean install, by doing full uninstall and removing the 
> C:\Users\myuser\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Seamonkey\Profiles\ folder 
> entirely. Same as above.
>  - Run Windows in safe mode. Same result.
>  - Revert back to 2.49.2. Same result.
>  - Disable hardware acceleration. Same.
>  - Disable my antivirus software. Same.
>  
> Bear in mind that at this point I have zero mail accounts set up and am 
> totally default on all Seamonkey settings, with nothing added or changed. The 
> only way I can get it to work now is by starting Seamonkey in safe mode. When 
> I do that it works fine. But obviously this is not ideal, especially since it 
> won't save any UI changes between sessions (reordering columns, expanding 
> e-mail account trees, etc.). I have configured my mail accounts while in 
> Seamonkey safe mode and things work great between starts as long as I use 
> safe mode every time. It is just the lack of control on the above that I 
> don't like. I suppose I could just always run it in safe mode and get used to 
> the lack of ability to change things, but I'm bothered by the whole situation.
> 
> Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-ons 
> I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that could 
> allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?
> 
> Thanks!

I'm getting worried. I still have 2.49.4 and it is working fine.  These recent 
threads about serious problems with any version after 2.49.4 has me leery of 
updating to 2.49.5.  These threads tell me that you folks are obviously out of 
my league of expertise. Is it safe for me to go to 2.49.5?  TIA.  Bud Krueger
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Re: what is realistic for the next release?

2019-10-31 Thread Hawker


On 10/29/2019 7:08 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Hawker wrote:
I'm sticking with 2.49.5 right now. I don't really want to move to the 
newer builds until they are more official I don't think.


That said there is an increasing number of websites that no longer 
work in SM with any UI string that work in FireFox.  I wonder how many 
of them will be fixed in a newer SM but not sure how much longer I can 
wait.


So what is realistic? Will we have a 2.5x.y build some time in the 
next 6 months or what is realistic?


And if I do want to try something built on a newer engine what version 
of SM is the safest yet sufficiently newer for Windowz 7?  And where 
should I get it from?




We are wanting to do at least 2 2.53.1 betas this year. Basically Bills 
2.53.1 will become an official release. A few private patches from me / 
Bill and work in progress fixes will be dropped from it then.


http://www.wg9s.com/comm-253/

We are currently fixing and backporting bugs left and right. In parallel 
we are setting up an official gitlab repo for it. We don't want to check 
in around 3000 patches into a release branch in the official mozilla 
repos. The gods owning them might not be amused then.


All fixes for SeaMonkey go into the later branches too but 2.57 is not 
usable yet with mail broken.


Yesterdays 2.53.1 had a bug with mail delete. Next one will fix it.

If you try it please backup your profile. You will not be able to go 
back to 2.49.5. Will be upgraded (compatible with the upcoming official).


If you use a master paxsword remove it before upgrading and reapply later.


FRG


Thank you for this great and thorough reply and all the info you gave 
below as well. This was exactly the clear concise information I was 
looking for.


Also thank you very much for your work on the project against all the 
odds and lack of help.  Some of us are still really hooked on SM.


Speaking for me I see the handwriting on the wall and assume with x.57 
being the end of the line (and a late release) I will need to move on at 
some point. I have tried to move to other browsers but I don't like any 
of them. FF has a few deal breakers in how it handles privacy that make 
it not usable for me and others lack features I depend on.
It reminds me of how long I clinged to Netscape 4.8 until MozSuite 
caught up.


If Email is the big issue with the new releases that is a non issue for 
me. Alas I had to move my e-mail to TB a couple years ago when it became 
apparent SM would not get TBs search capabilities and the SM mail client 
was getting crazy sluggish and having trouble handling my huge e-mail 
base that TB didn't seem to have issues with. I kept having to split 
directories to smaller chunks so it was usable and not sluggish, a 
problem TB didn't have. I don't care for TB as much as SM but I had to 
much e-mail to have those issues on my work files.

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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening


On 10/31/19 8:49 AM, BigBlue wrote:

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:39:27 AM UTC-5, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

BigBlue wrote:

[Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]




Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-ons I 
know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that could 
allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?

Thanks!



Video driver antivirus? Best to post a crash id.

FRG


I have active AV and I did run MalwareBytes to double-check. What does it mean 
to post a crash id?



It means you type about:crashes into the address bar, then copy the most 
recent link and post it into a reply.


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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening


On 31/10/19 12:56, BigBlue wrote:


... >

...I don't know exactly what the two *.css files do, but I'd assume on a fresh install with stock/default new profile they would be irrelevant. 


Override styles of the application (userChrome) or web pages 
(userContent), and yes.



I couldn't find 
any way to make a change to Java outside of safe mode, but with a fresh install 
and zero accounts/content would that matter?


Once you could disable the JS JIT compiler by making both these boolean 
settings false in about:config: javascript.options.jit.content and 
javascript.options.jit.chrome. But this is also likely to be irrelevant.


The PC is otherwise well cared for and healthy. It is 64-bit Windows 10 Home on 
32GB memory system that is 1 year old. Always had AV. Fully up-to-date on 
Windows updates. Disk is SSD and has shown no indications of issues. I suppose 
I can force a ckddsk just in case.


You could.

Is SM 64- or 32-bit? What happens if you try the other bit-ness?

And as frg says, a crash ID would help (about:crashes).

/df

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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 7:07:12 AM UTC-5, nor...@googlegroups.com 
wrote:

> It works with safe mode.
> 
> "Safe Mode temporarily affects the following:
> 
>  All extensions are disabled.
>  The default theme is used, without a persona.
>  The Just-in-time (JIT) JavaScript compiler is disabled.
>  The userChrome.css and userContent.css files are ignored.
>  The default toolbar layout is used.
>  Hardware acceleration is disabled.
> "
> 
> It crashes with a default profile on the second (and subsequent) run.
> 
> Therefore there is some problem with the way the profile is saved and 
> reloaded, that only seems to affect your system and SM installation.
> 
> How is disk health in this PC?
> 
> Has Windows 10 been updated recently? x64/x86?
> 

So I was going through that list before I originally posted. It seems like with 
a fresh install almost everything is rules out between safe mode and a normal 
run with default settings (theme, addons, toolbar layout) and I did explicitly 
try disabling hardware acceleration, which made no difference. I don't know 
exactly what the two *.css files do, but I'd assume on a fresh install with 
stock/default new profile they would be irrelevant. I couldn't find any way to 
make a change to Java outside of safe mode, but with a fresh install and zero 
accounts/content would that matter?

The PC is otherwise well cared for and healthy. It is 64-bit Windows 10 Home on 
32GB memory system that is 1 year old. Always had AV. Fully up-to-date on 
Windows updates. Disk is SSD and has shown no indications of issues. I suppose 
I can force a ckddsk just in case.

Thanks.
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:39:27 AM UTC-5, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> BigBlue wrote:
> > [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
> > 
> 
> > Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or 
> > add-ons I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode 
> > that could allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> 
> Video driver antivirus? Best to post a crash id.
> 
> FRG

I have active AV and I did run MalwareBytes to double-check. What does it mean 
to post a crash id?
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Re: what is realistic for the next release?


On 10/31/19 2:31 AM, Daniel wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote on 31/10/2019 8:08 AM:

Onno Ekker wrote:

Op 30-10-2019 om 00:08 schreef Frank-Rainer Grahl:

Hawker wrote:

FRG


Could you also elaborate a bit on what's realistic for extension
developers? My extension is compatible with Thunderbird 52, 60 and 68,
and also with SeaMonkey 2.49 and 2.53, but in order to be compatible
with multiple versions I detect the Gecko version and that will probably
fail for SeaMonkey 2.53 when it stays on Gecko 52 (or is it 60?) and it
backports functionality from TB/Gecko 60+.


2.49 is at the end of its life when the first 2.53.1 will be released. 
2.53.1 already switched the gecko version to 60 because major websites 
are doing more than stupid ua sniffing.


For 2.53.1 we backport but only the "good" stuff. There should be no 
breakage if it already works. Things like ChromeUtils.Import have been 
backported. The remaining 60 ChromeUtils enhancements are on the list. 
Just a matter of time.


2.57 is still way off. We are currently removing rdf support but to be 
usable it needs webextension support. I don't have an ETA.


68+ (would be SeaMonkey 2.65) and deprecation of XUL extensions is 
currently not being worked on. Frankly I can't tell you what happens 
after 2.57. We could make SeaMonkey compatible but this would drop a 
lot of current functionality. Currently 68 and up is broken.


Personally I don't care about anything beyond 2.57. Mozilla did a good 
job to scare me off with the post 60 changes (and some of the 57 to 60 
stupid ones too like viewsource in a tab only).


Any enhancements for 2.53 go into the later releases too. When we are 
at 2.57 we need to decide about the future. Can only speak for myself 
but I wish I had a firm plan.


In any case nothing to worry about in the, lets say, next 2-3 years. 
2.53.1 is working really well and I enjoy working on and with it very 
much. I think the same is true for the other team members.


FRG


FRG, thanks for all the work that you and the rest of the Devs are doing 
trying to keep SM up-to-date.


But I have two questions that, maybe, you could answer 

1.    The UA of my SM 2.49.5 currently shows its using Gecko/20100101. 
Will the 2.53.1 versions show a more current Gecko version ... if it 
really matters??




Mozilla changed that part of the UA string with version 4.0 when the 
rapid release cycle started.


See: 
.


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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

On 31/10/19 02:16, BigBlue wrote:

[Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]

... With this version the crashes still happen but are now immediate after
launching it (either directly via the -mail flag or by clicking the envelope
icon in Browser). ...

I tried all the usual troubleshooting steps:

- Start with a new profile. With a new profile it will run Mail one time, but
on the next launch it goes back to crashing. This is regardless of whether I
set up a mail account or not.
- Clean install, by doing full uninstall and removing the
C:\Users\myuser\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Seamonkey\Profiles\ folder
entirely. Same as above.
- Run Windows in safe mode. Same result.
- Revert back to 2.49.2. Same result.
- Disable hardware acceleration. Same.
- Disable my antivirus software. Same.

Bear in mind that at this point I have zero mail accounts set up and am totally default on all Seamonkey settings, with nothing added or changed. The only way I can get it to work now is by starting Seamonkey in safe mode. When I do that it works fine. > ... So what else is it about safe mode that could allow mail to start

when all of the other things are ruled out?

It works with safe mode.

"Safe Mode temporarily affects the following:

All extensions are disabled.
The default theme is used, without a persona.
The Just-in-time (JIT) JavaScript compiler is disabled.
The userChrome.css and userContent.css files are ignored.
The default toolbar layout is used.
Hardware acceleration is disabled.
"

It crashes with a default profile on the second (and subsequent) run.

Therefore there is some problem with the way the profile is saved and
reloaded, that only seems to affect your system and SM installation.

How is disk health in this PC?

Has Windows 10 been updated recently? x64/x86?

/df

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Re: what is realistic for the next release?




Daniel wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote on 31/10/2019 8:08 AM:


In any case nothing to worry about in the, lets say, next 2-3 years. 2.53.1 
is working really well and I enjoy working on and with it very much. I think 
the same is true for the other team members.


FRG


FRG, thanks for all the work that you and the rest of the Devs are doing 
trying to keep SM up-to-date.


But I have two questions that, maybe, you could answer 

1.    The UA of my SM 2.49.5 currently shows its using Gecko/20100101. Will 
the 2.53.1 versions show a more current Gecko version ... if it really matters??




20100101 is just an eye catcher. Even current Fx has it. 2.53.1 already lies 
to the world and pretends to be Gecko 60. Too many sites where broken with the 
real version. Try github in 2.49 and 2.53.1


2.    With each update, nowadays, you suggest we copy our profiles before 
updating  just in case something goes wrong (and a good practice in any 
case). There used to be a program/extension called something like *MozBackup* 
that would do the required backing up ... or was this for Mozilla Suite?? Does 
this still function with SM??


Close SeaMonkey and use you favorite archiver on the profile folder. I usually 
do it from the command line on Windows with zip -r -S or with Total Commander.


Mozbackup is not  recommended. Mostly dead and unsupported.

FRG
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Re: what is realistic for the next release?





David E. Ross wrote:

On 10/30/2019 2:08 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Onno Ekker wrote:

Op 30-10-2019 om 00:08 schreef Frank-Rainer Grahl:

Hawker wrote:

FRG



Will there be xul extension support in 2.53 to the same extent it is
supported in 2.49?



Yes support will be kept intact. Makes no sense to gut it withoput web 
extention support. But keep in mind that some apis especially for the 
Bookmarks did change and some obsolete features were dropped by mozilla 
between 52 and 56 (NPAPI, some Javascript syntx). We will not restore this. So 
some mostly older extensions will break or better are broken.


FRG
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Re: Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening


BigBlue wrote:

[Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]




Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-ons I 
know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that could 
allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?

Thanks!



Video driver antivirus? Best to post a crash id.

FRG
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Re: what is realistic for the next release?