Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On 10/15/2015 01:37 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: On 10/15/2015 10:07 PM, Steven Boardman wrote: Subs are a must. The more you have, the more even the response around the room? Yes, and the better your LF localisation. Ideally, we'd want to do a separate decode for the subs, not just simple

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Bah... (; hello Charlie hope you're well ! I just realised the x32 has 32 ins but only 22 outs you can expand it but probably end up paying more than madi or adats... On Thursday, 22 October 2015, Charlie Richmond wrote: > Doorstop you say?? ;-) > > On 21 October 2015 at

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

We have one with the stage box for a total of 32 outs. ~$3k We took it apart to check out the analog stage- even replaced a few components. It's a really good value. The whole thing is OSC controllable too. Ben On Thursday, October 22, 2015, Jörn Nettingsmeier < netti...@stackingdwarves.net>

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On 10/22/2015 08:27 AM, Augustine Leudar wrote: Bah... (; hello Charlie hope you're well ! I just realised the x32 has 32 ins but only 22 outs you can expand it but probably end up paying more than madi or adats... FWIW, there even is a MADI I/O card for the X32/M32. The IEM Graz has one, I

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Doorstop you say?? ;-) On 21 October 2015 at 17:30, Augustine Leudar wrote: > Daw ☺damn you autocorrect. > > On Thursday, 22 October 2015, Augustine Leudar > wrote: > > > You should also look at the Behringer x32 - 32 channels, midas

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Daw ☺damn you autocorrect. On Thursday, 22 October 2015, Augustine Leudar wrote: > You should also look at the Behringer x32 - 32 channels, midas preamps, > motorised faders, proven reliability, works as a usb multichannel > soundcard and door controller. 1000

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

You should also look at the Behringer x32 - 32 channels, midas preamps, motorised faders, proven reliability, works as a usb multichannel soundcard and door controller. 1000 pounds. On Tuesday, 20 October 2015, Michael Chapman wrote: > Fons Adriaensen wrote (Thu, October

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Fons Adriaensen wrote (Thu, October 15, 2015 6:47 pm) : > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 03:59:46PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > >> We've seen all those outlandish claims of magical waveguides that >> are just fractions of the wavelength in diameter and yet shape the >> sound so wonderfully that a

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

> Charles Veasey wrote: >> Martin - >> >> To clarify the use of the subs within a tetrahedral array, it would >> require >> the subs to be elevated off the floor? > > At least one, as described by Michael. > I should apologise for the brevity of my respone. The problem (for me at least) is that

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Charles Veasey wrote: > Martin - > > To clarify the use of the subs within a tetrahedral array, it would require > the subs to be elevated off the floor? At least one, as described by Michael. > Given the weight of most subs, this > seems a bit difficult in practice. Thoughts? Then try three

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

There is very good availability of speakers that are low Cost and designed for 80Hz and upp... They usually come in 5 pack and include one sub woofer ☺ The are usually not powered except for The subwoofer. I use Kef eggs... The decoding of low frequency signals is not really relevant for small

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

> Martin - > > To clarify the use of the subs within a tetrahedral array, it would > require > the subs to be elevated off the floor? Given the weight of most subs, this > seems a bit difficult in practice. Thoughts? > At the worst/best ... only one needs lifting. So just a bit of fishing* line

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Martin - To clarify the use of the subs within a tetrahedral array, it would require the subs to be elevated off the floor? Given the weight of most subs, this seems a bit difficult in practice. Thoughts? thanks, Charles On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Martin Leese <

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On 10/16/2015 08:34 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: Next Ambdec (already in use here, and to be released soon) can do this. <..> 1. Bandsplitting, four options: - single band - single band with sub xover - dual band - dual band with sub xover so in the latter case you'd have 3

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 01:15:22PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > Intriguing idea, that. So we would apply zero-phase high-pass > filters to the second and higher components? > Should be nice for a test run, but how to keep latency down for live > electronics and A/V sync? How would we

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Charles Veasey wrote: > Thanks everyone for the information! > > Using four subs was mentioned a couple of times. I've never used or > experienced more than two in an array. What is the justification? I assume > that given a square room, you'd place one in each corner? With Ambisonics, using

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Steven >> Boardman [boardroomout...@gmail.com] >> Sent: 16 October 2015 14:14 >> To: Surround Sound discussion group >> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 >> speakers? >> &g

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Senior Lecturer in Perception > >> College of Arts > >> University of Derby > >> > >> Tel: 01332 593155 > >> > >> From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Steven > >> Boardman

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

: 16 October 2015 12:15 To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers? On 10/15/2015 10:51 PM, Dave Malham wrote: > One of the things that should be investigated in conjunction with higher > order Ambisonics material would be to &quo

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On 10/15/2015 10:51 PM, Dave Malham wrote: One of the things that should be investigated in conjunction with higher order Ambisonics material would be to "fade down" the higher order components as the frequency drops, thus spreading the bass over more speakers, reducing the strain on the

[Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Sure there's not a lot of bass coming out of these things but they work well enough for human voice (not Barry white) but I think we both agree that a wide dispersal (across all frequencies) is advantageous in larger installations (probably smaller ones too) and to suggest there is not a

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

593155 > > From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jörn > Nettingsmeier [netti...@stackingdwarves.net] > Sent: 16 October 2015 12:15 > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array.

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Boardman [boardroomout...@gmail.com] Sent: 16 October 2015 14:14 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

ty of Derby > > Tel: 01332 593155 > > From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Steven > Boardman [boardroomout...@gmail.com] > Sent: 16 October 2015 14:14 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] A

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

When I was caught out by this problem the level of info described in Sebastian's post wasn't in the manuals so I hadn't thought about it - tho' I *should *have done, given the fact that I designed one for a magazine some 4 decades ago :-( Dave On 15 October 2015 at 10:31, Sebastian Gabler

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

The protection circuits likely trip the tweeter first, as its thermal time constant is much shorter than that of woofer. Also the thermal power handling of the woofer is much higher. Normally there is an indicator turning red if the limits are exceeded and protection is activated. Without

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

I am currently replacing my 32 passive speaker array with genelec 6010s. These are a cheaper alternative, that are still in stock in a lot of places. They have exactly the same spec, but unbalanced connections. Which won't be a problem for small runs. The spl will be fine for a smaller room like

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

32 speakers in a 3m * 3m space ? Wow - I'd love to see some pictures if you get a chance ! On 15 October 2015 at 11:21, Steven Boardman wrote: > I am currently replacing my 32 passive speaker array with genelec 6010s. > These are a cheaper alternative, that are still

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 07:08:29 +0200, David Pickett wrote : > At 23:17 14-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > >Yeah actually the lsr308 and lsr305 have been getting rave reviews > >and cost very little their waveguide gives wide dispersal (good off > >axis response) which is probably good for

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Possibly ambisonics is different - but not all multichannel audio uses ambisonics - certainly with vbap for example if your speakers are wide apart you don't want a big gap when panning between them then wider dispersal would be advantageous if the speakers are very close together I could see it

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Am 15.10.2015 um 07:08 schrieb David Pickett: At 23:17 14-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote: >Yeah actually the lsr308 and lsr305 have been getting rave reviews and cost >very little their waveguide gives wide dispersal (good off axis response) >which is probably good for spatial audio. Good

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 dB per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that it is because of the protection circuit in the manual. That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. That's far beyond

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

I was wondering about that as I wrote it actually - Sometimes when I have a large space between speakers I increas the directivity (using ICST) to fill in holes between speakers when panning - but this is really just spreading the sound ove rmore speakers rather than relating to the dispersal of

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the protection circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even sense) the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On 10/15/2015 11:31 AM, Sebastian Gabler wrote: That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 dB per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that it is because of the protection circuit in the manual. That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Yes Jorn - what I mean wide dispersal of a spectrally balanced off axis response - ie the frequency response doesn't alter radically when you move up, down, left , right - so to clarify wide dispersal of all frequencies not just bass On 15 October 2015 at 14:14, Jörn Nettingsmeier <

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On 10/15/2015 03:30 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: I admit there use of the word "ultrasound" is ridiculous - but they do work On 15 October 2015 at 14:27, Augustine Leudar wrote: Here you go Jorn - a speaker with a narrow dispersion pattern - (they call it parametric

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On 10/15/2015 03:41 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: What can I say Jorn - we have some and they work - not as well as adverstised obviously but strip away the hype they have something thta mor eor less does as described - you'll have to wait a while for those measurements ;) For now, the low

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On 10/15/2015 03:59 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: On 10/15/2015 03:41 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: What can I say Jorn - we have some and they work - not as well as adverstised obviously but strip away the hype they have something thta mor eor less does as described - you'll have to wait a

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Well it's more like 2.8m by 3..7m with a very high ceiling slope up towards the back. It's on a platform in the roof of the building. It is also only 31 speakers really, as the one below is under my chair, and is generally disconnected. Space is one reason why I want to change to smaller speakers.

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

I admit there use of the word "ultrasound" is ridiculous - but they do work On 15 October 2015 at 14:27, Augustine Leudar wrote: > Here you go Jorn - a speaker with a narrow dispersion pattern - (they call > it parametric or sound lazer) : > >

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

I think that what Jorn is saying is that a lot of small speakers is not good/powerful enough to provide a proper, powerful, dynamic, full range point in the space, which is still a very popular gesture in most panning methods. Le 15 oct. 2015 à 14:24, Augustine Leudar

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Here you go Jorn - a speaker with a narrow dispersion pattern - (they call it parametric or sound lazer) : http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ On 15 October 2015 at 14:14, Jörn Nettingsmeier < netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > On 10/15/2015 02:35 PM, Augustine Leudar

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

no - he was saying that speakers with a narrow dispersal dont exist - which they do. He was also saying that bass radiates more widely than higher frequencies and is more omin directional - which is true so if speakers are far apart if you dont have a balanced off axis spectral response then the

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

another thing David - the B& W are designed for studio/mastering/audiophile use and so yes sound emanating from the back and sides are not a good thing especially in a studio environment when you want to control the acoustics for neutral monitoring - but thats quite a different application to the

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On 10/15/2015 02:35 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: Possibly ambisonics is different - but not all multichannel audio uses ambisonics - certainly with vbap for example if your speakers are wide apart you don't want a big gap when panning between them then wider dispersal would be advantageous if

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

What can I say Jorn - we have some and they work - not as well as adverstised obviously but strip away the hype they have something thta mor eor less does as described - you'll have to wait a while for those measurements ;) On 15 October 2015 at 14:39, Jörn Nettingsmeier <

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

I did a test with the genelec 6010s I have. The bass distorts way before before any high frequency problems occur, and woofer distortion happens before any protection circuit cuts in.. When the crossover is made higher, more level can be achieved at those frequencies, with less I'll effects. (I

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

One of the things that should be investigated in conjunction with higher order Ambisonics material would be to "fade down" the higher order components as the frequency drops, thus spreading the bass over more speakers, reducing the strain on the individual speakers whilst maintaining the spectral

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Thanks everyone for the information! Using four subs was mentioned a couple of times. I've never used or experienced more than two in an array. What is the justification? I assume that given a square room, you'd place one in each corner? Also - a good point was made regarding the cost

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:14:59PM +0100, Dave Malham wrote: > Indeed, but for real-world signals bass tends (!) to be higher - at least, > if you don't want fried ears - so that's where it shows up. I can only confirm this. The last few months I've been using a room equipped with 36 small

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Yes, those are too expensive given the spatial resolution I'd like. My budget is ~$30-40k. If the 8010s seem too weak, then maybe something like the Genelec 8030B or Meyer MM-4XPD. Also, for the computer interface, I'm thinking about RME's HDSPe RayDAT and M-32 DA / M-16 DA thanks, Charles

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

you might want to consider the PMC tb2s the are nice speakers . You can get an active pair for around 1500 dollars. 8010 will have no bottom end its tiny. On 14 October 2015 at 18:51, Charles Veasey wrote: > Yes, those are too expensive given the spatial resolution

[Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Hello, We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350. Does

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

apart from genelec and PMC another speaker I see quite often in these kind of facilities is the Mackie hr824 - the new mark 2 measures well. You can check anechoic measurements (time and frequency response) of various different speaker manufacturers here :

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Regarding the room response, delay etc. correction, which would be beneficial in this application, the smallest Genelec model having these features is 8320 (4 in woofer). Next is 8330 with a 5in woofer. Best regards, Ilpo Martikainen > On 14 Oct 2015, at 20:31, Augustine Leudar

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Sent from my iPhone > On 14 Oct 2015, at 18:31, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > Maybe out of your budget - but check out the Genelec 8351 a - they also > have a room correction system that will work on arrays of up to 32 speakers. > For those that do not have gear

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Maybe out of your budget - but check out the Genelec 8351 a - they also have a room correction system that will work on arrays of up to 32 speakers. For those that do not have gear acquisition syndrome here is some ridiculous holywood styled marketing : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokCwTKjz0E

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Hi My current speakers are Genelec 8040's. The sub is 7050B, although it isn't intended to be used with the 8040:s. I use a designated cross-over for the sub. The 8040 goes down to 48 Hz, so the sub actually only takes care of the first two octaves. The stereo imaging is very good. I have

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

The rme raydat hdspe only costs £420 (600 dollarsish) amazing value I thought. On 14 October 2015 at 19:36, David Pickett wrote: > At 19:51 14-10-15, Charles Veasey wrote: > > >Also, for the computer interface, I'm thinking about RME's HDSPe > >RayDAT and M-32 > >DA / M-16

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

All of my spatial sound research has been self funded. As such, Im very sensitive to the budgetary issues. I had initially selected the then-current genelec 1028a for my array, but then I discovered that the JBL lsr25 had flatter response, greater low frequency extension, more acoustic output,

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

Yeah actually the lsr308 and lsr305 have been getting rave reviews and cost very little their waveguide gives wide dispersal (good off axis response) which is probably good for spatial audio. Speaker guru Earl Geddes measured them flatter than his own speakers. The yamaha hs8 is also popular as a

Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

ps I have the RME raydat - its a great card - you will need the ADAT converters as well if you dont already. I had behringer ada8000 but they blew quite often - a power issue which newer versions dont have. Howver the new 8200 have no such issues and reportably midas preamps. ada8000 about 150