Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Thank you to all who replied to my post. Special thanks to Fons, Jörn and Fernando who have suggested practical starting points. I will make some calculations and decide on what will be most practical for my experiment. I will report with my successes (or failures). Many thanks! - martin On

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

On Tue, Feb 09, 2016 at 09:51:32PM +, Martin Dupras wrote: > At this moment in time, I have the opportunity to deploy (next week) a > 16-channel array, so I would like some advice on a configuration that > would be a good start to experiment with Ambisonics with height. > Someone suggested

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

On 02/09/2016 10:51 PM, Martin Dupras wrote: Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated. I'll re-phrase the question in light of some of the answers I've been given. I will be using third-order Ambisonics. My aim mostly is to experiment to get a good sense of what is possible with

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Hi Martin, one note on the arrangement, as far as I know, traditional ambisonic decoding won’t work on hemispherical setups (due to the partial coverage of the sphere by the speakers). You may have to use more recent/advanced methods to get decoding matrices, such as the energy-preserving

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

and : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_reproduction_systems#Full-sphere_systems:_Platonic_Solids On 9 February 2016 at 12:58, Augustine Leudar wrote: > On,y wikipedia but contains the info you need : > > >

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

On,y wikipedia but contains the info you need : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_reproduction_systems#Horizontal-only_systems On 9 February 2016 at 12:45, Politis Archontis wrote: > Hi Martin, > > one note on the arrangement, as far as I know, traditional

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated. I'll re-phrase the question in light of some of the answers I've been given. I will be using third-order Ambisonics. My aim mostly is to experiment to get a good sense of what is possible with Ambisonics with height. I have experimented

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

> Hi Martin, > > HOA are not limited to icosahedra or only uniform arrangements (which > exist also beyond the 5 platonic solids). Details, please. Michael ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Firstly, I've never got beyond twelve (two stacked hexagons), so ignore my comments at your _non_-peril ;-)> It strikes me, that it all depends on what you want from height : Your initial proposal was with the base ring at ear height. If your vertical 'stuff' is equally 'up' and 'down' you'd be

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Hi Michael, What I had in mind are t-designs, which exist till a very high number of points and they have been used by various researchers in decoder design (and spherical acoustic processing in general). These are perfectly uniform for all practical purposes. And there exist other uniform

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Thanks Archontis, that is very useful. I'll try that, it seems to corroborate what I had in mind initially. What's the worse that can happen, right? :) Thanks for the help! - martin On 9 February 2016 at 22:34, Politis Archontis wrote: > Hi Martin, > > HOA are not

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

> Out of curiosity - can I ask why you want to use ambisonics as opposed to > other spatial audio techniques ? I'm not sure how to answer. What other techniques did you have in mind? The reasons are several: I understand at least to some extent Ambisonics, and I have some (but limited) experience

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

I have found amplitude panning to be more effective for some applications. On 9 February 2016 at 22:42, Martin Dupras wrote: > > Out of curiosity - can I ask why you want to use ambisonics as opposed to > > other spatial audio techniques ? > > I'm not sure how to answer.

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

also DBAP On 9 February 2016 at 22:47, Augustine Leudar wrote: > I have found amplitude panning to be more effective for some applications. > > On 9 February 2016 at 22:42, Martin Dupras wrote: > >> > Out of curiosity - can I ask why you want

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

I know Im treading on thin ice here around all these ferocious maths guys... but might it be that there is not a suitable array that uses 16 speakers? I know if you have 16 speakers you will want to use all of them but an Icosahedron is only 12 speakers (vertices) but it might be the best option.

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

I have no objection to using fewer than 16 speakers; it's just the maximum I have available to me. The reason I had not considered the icosahedron vertices setup is because, according to the wikipedia page, it's capable of 2nd order, not 3rd order. Is that not the case? Again from wikipedia:

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Plan A is more or less my backup. I'm fairly confident that I can get that working. For my needs the verticality is more important up than down, I would say, but it's a good point that the amount of complexity might make it a better option for my plans next week. I'll keep digging for a

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Hi Martin, HOA are not limited to icosahedra or only uniform arrangements (which exist also beyond the 5 platonic solids). It would be very hard to claim them flexible or universal if that was the case. Uniform arrangements though simplify decoder design significantly. As I mentioned you

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Out of curiosity - can I ask why you want to use ambisonics as opposed to other spatial audio techniques ? On 9 February 2016 at 22:31, Martin Dupras wrote: > Plan A is more or less my backup. I'm fairly confident that I can get > that working. For my needs the

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

I have found amplitude planning effective in some circumstances, but I find that it's not portable, e.g. I can't deploy the same to a different speaker arrangement, and I can't scale it down to a smaller array while composing, among other issues. I did funnily enough do some basic experiments

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

I understand - most of my stuff is site specific so thus my views. If scalability and portability are important to you - you might also want to check out Dolby and DTS's competing new object based 3D audio software - no idea how easy it is to get your hands on Dolbys - but DTS should be

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Thats fair enough - I think they'd be quite useful if you were making a film soundtrack though ! On 9 February 2016 at 23:07, Martin Dupras wrote: > Ah, but my objection is that those are proprietary systems, and I > would much rather not use any. Part of the appeal of

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

5, 5, 5, 1 - geodesic but conformed to the likely rectangular room, first set of 5 on ground, first and third set lined up, divide height into fourths & perimeter into fifths, place accordingly...? idk, this is what i'd do On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Augustine Leudar

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

On 02/09/2016 02:16 PM, Martin Dupras wrote: I have no objection to using fewer than 16 speakers; it's just the maximum I have available to me. I would use as many speakers as you can. No point in using less and there's always a way to arrange them to provide a "reasonable" coverage of the

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

On 02/09/2016 03:07 PM, Martin Dupras wrote: Ah, but my objection is that those are proprietary systems, and I would much rather not use any. Part of the appeal of Ambisonics for me is that it's freely usable by all and no licensing is necessary. Yup, same here. That's actually really very

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Martin Dupras wrote: > Hi, > > I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next > week in a small TV studio. I'm trying to figure out the practical > arrangements for setting up the speakers. I was wondering if anyone > with experience might be able to offer some advice or point

[Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

Hi, I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next week in a small TV studio. I'm trying to figure out the practical arrangements for setting up the speakers. I was wondering if anyone with experience might be able to offer some advice or point me in the right direction? What

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

19:08 GMT >> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> >> Subject: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical >> arrangement >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

dup...@gmail.com> Date: 8 February 2016 15:19:08 GMT To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> Subject: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half- spherical arrangement Hi, I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next week in a small TV

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

and floor as the supports. ThomasChen -Original Message- From: Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2016 9:42 am Subject: Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker ha