On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 06:17:40PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
On 05/03/2011 08:03 PM, Aaron Heller wrote:
Contact me
off list if you want the Ambdec config files I used.
i'd love to see them. any chance of you making them publicly available
(such as in a contributions folder in the
-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On
Behalf Of Eric Benjamin
Sent: den 4 maj 2011 19:18
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.
from psychoacoustics we cannot really hear
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:51:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Greene gre...@math.ucla.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale
To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu
Message-ID: alpine.lnx.2.00.1105030948180.30...@walnut.math.ucla.edu
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:03:55 -0700
From: Aaron Heller hel...@ai.sri.com
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale
To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu
Message-ID: BANLkTinFfnV4PhW8n=vnyneqkxehm9c...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 05/03/2011 08:03 PM, Aaron Heller wrote:
Contact me
off list if you want the Ambdec config files I used.
i'd love to see them. any chance of you making them publicly available
(such as in a contributions folder in the ambdec tarball)?
i haven't spoken to fons about it, but it might be
On 05/03/2011 04:06 AM, Aaron Heller wrote:
. during the listening tests for BLaH4, with some decoders and
listening to eight directions, localization was indistinct to the
direct left and right, until I turned and looked in that direction
during the announcement, at which point the
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fons Adriaensen f...@linuxaudio.org wrote:
On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 07:15:29PM +0530, umashankar mantravadi wrote:
in fact angelo recommended that i arrange the eight speakers as two
crossed squares. two speakers in front
On 05/03/2011 08:03 AM, Ronald C.F. Antony wrote:
Similarly, what does a SoundField mic output? A/B format. Now
translate that into 5.1. That's what's a realistic production flow.
and it does not work very well. nobody who is producing 5.1 the usual
way (i.e. without using a soundfield) will
...@derby.ac.uk
-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: 04 May 2011 08:09
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.
I still want to suggest
group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.
Quick suggestion: - as you're having to use more than 8 channels anyway, you're
likely to be using a 16 channel card; thus, you would have some channels left
to decode (horizontal only) to 3 or 4 subs
Dr Peter Lennox
School
: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: den 4 maj 2011 13:41
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.
Yes, I have a few woofers available BUT according to what I understand
that one is enough.
Eric
- Original Message
From: Bo-Erik Sandholm bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.com
To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 4:41:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.
Yes, I have a few woofers
Let me be blunt: there's a lot to be said about HOA in theoretical terms, it's
wonderful, exciting, yet totally irrelevant:
When it comes to localizing sounds, when I sit in the sofa at home, I'm not
trying to shoot the second violin by sound, I just want a natural sounding,
enjoyable
Wow - I have a few days break and the list goes mad - and all set off by the appearance of a 30+
year old hardware box up for sale!
On 01/05/2011 19:18, Martin Leese wrote
My recollection from a 1980s telephone
conversation with Minim was that the
production AD 10 decoders did not have
On 01/05/2011 23:09, Richard Dobson wrote:
how can localisation and separation be distinct?
I think the two words are too useful to be treated as exact synonyms - that would mean one of them
is simply wasted. So I would say the former is absolute - this or that degree azimuth. The latter
Dave Malham wrote:
he used Audio Design gear himself, so
decoders with shelf filters, even though it supposedly does not help
over large areas...and he even used UHJ a lot.
I remember John once told that instead of a square arrangement
he had sometimes arranged four speakers in an arc behind
On 3 May 2011, at 13:08, Richard Dobson wrote:
My proposed application is not music listening as such, but sonification of
particle collisions in the LHC. In the data, Z is the beam axis, and the most
interesting stuff has high transverse momentum, i.e. left right up down
across the beam
(or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar
From: r...@cubiculum.com
Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:54:25 +0200
To: richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk; sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale
On 3 May 2011, at 13:08, Richard Dobson wrote:
My proposed application
: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale
On 3 May 2011, at 13:08, Richard Dobson wrote:
My proposed application is not music listening as such, but sonification of particle
collisions in the LHC. In the data, Z is the beam axis, and the most interesting stuff
has high transverse momentum, i.e. left right up
Here is a post that makes sense in the real world.
Of course it is intriguing to work out how
to create the impression of a mosquito circling around
your head. But it is really not important musically.
What is wrong with stereo?
1 It is all in front
2 It is too LITTLE. Real orchestras are 15
On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 07:15:29PM +0530, umashankar mantravadi wrote:
in fact angelo recommended that i arrange the eight speakers as two crossed
squares. two speakers in front and back, and four speakers mid bottom left
and right and mid top left and right, the only problem is i do not
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fons Adriaensen f...@linuxaudio.org wrote:
On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 07:15:29PM +0530, umashankar mantravadi wrote:
in fact angelo recommended that i arrange the eight speakers as two crossed
squares. two speakers in front and back, and four speakers mid bottom
Martin Leese martin.le...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
...
I have
collected information about the Minim
decoders, and made it available at:
https://sites.google.com/site/minimdecoders/
...
If you know of
more information then please pass it on to me
so that I can add it to the site.
Geoffrey
On 02/05/2011 02:30, Stefan Schreiber wrote:
.
1. Maybe this is your new definition. But then: B-format and .AMB are
identical.
The notation .AMB (or .amb) should be reserved to refer to the file
format that uses that extension. As defined, it assumes the FMH recipes
for B-Format; only
On 02/05/2011 05:59, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
On 05/02/2011 12:09 AM, Richard Dobson wrote:
...
what is all this talk about smallest acceptable?
Well, if I put together a proposal for an eight-speaker cube, which is
ostensibly limited to first-order peri, would that be received with
2011/5/1 Jörn Nettingsmeier netti...@stackingdwarves.net:
i've been flabbergasted time
and again how people could be totally unimpressed by first-oeder
ambisonic systems that to me were between pretty good and totally
awesome.
it's still a conjecture, and i haven't tried to confirm it
On 01/05/2011 03:55, Stefan Schreiber wrote:
..
It is fair to say that 1st order AMB is good (or good enough?) for
some things, but it is not perfect surround sound forever. Some people
on this list are actually using 2nd/3rd and higher order Ambisonics, and
I think that any good standard should
--On 01 May 2011 12:15 +0100 Richard Dobson
richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
Have any listening tests actually been carried out to establish what
typical users consider to be sufficiently good localization?
An interesting comparison would be to start with horizontal first-order,
and
Sound like the obvious thing to do
An interesting comparison would be to start with horizontal first-order,
and then to assess whether the common man finds a switch to full 3D
first-order or to horizontal third-order the greater improvement in effect.
(So far, I have heard only
2011/5/1 Paul Hodges pwh-surro...@cassland.org
--On 01 May 2011 12:15 +0100 Richard Dobson
richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
Have any listening tests actually been carried out to establish what
typical users consider to be sufficiently good localization?
An interesting comparison
i have published my poems. read (or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar
From: j...@johnleonard.co.uk
Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 13:17:02 +0100
To: richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk; sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale
Some years ago I asked a question about
I have had an Ambisonic setup for almost thirty years, which I have
upgraded several times. My decoder is a much modified Integrex, built
with Mil-Spec tight tolerance Caps and resistors and upgraded with
modern, high slew-rate op-amps. It drives dual Hafler 220 power amps. I
also recently
On 01/05/2011 12:50, Svein Berge wrote:
..
Another anecdotal answer, which doesn't even quite address the question: The
difference between 1st order horizontal and 3rd order horizontal is easy to
hear for the common man.
Using 5.1, or some other arrangement?
The colloquial assumption or
I totally concur with you John, that is exactly what most surround systems
are like in this country, and probably elsewhere. I visit people and have to
bite my tongue when I see how they have their, normally cheap cheerful,
systems set up, and when I'm really lucky and I get a demonstration on
Interesting, I use roughly the same set-up for my UHJ decoded releases on my
Quadraphonic blog, although there is an issue with the final product (and that
happens with any software/hardware decoded UHJ material) is that awful phase
shift on the Front Left. Correcting that greatly improves
2011/5/1 Richard Dobson richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk
On 01/05/2011 12:50, Svein Berge wrote:
..
Another anecdotal answer, which doesn't even quite address the question:
The
difference between 1st order horizontal and 3rd order horizontal is easy
to
hear for the common man.
Using
I should clarify that Umashankar is referring to a recording entitled Here's
smut in your eye which is all to do with leaning out of the carriage window
during a steam train ride. Please don't get the idea that I have a bunch of
surround recordings of a slightly dubious nature that I only make
Ha ha ha, any chance of details of where this is available from?
I should clarify that Umashankar is referring to a recording entitled Here's
smut in your eye which is all to do with leaning out of the carriage window
during a steam train ride. Please don't get the idea that I have a bunch
I have a naive question for experts: would it be possible to recreate
the acoustics of the Philips Pavillon using room simulation techniques
and ambisonics spatialization?
Sun, 01 May 2011 17:25:40 +0100,
Richard Dobson richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk a écrit :
Funnily enough, we had a
Gerard Lardner glard...@iol.ie
...
I read in a review that the AD10 was intended to be sold at a realistic
price of about $600 and the AD7 sold at a bargain $200. That review also
mentioned that the AD10 used closer-tolerance components that would
additionally be hand-selected for closer
On 01/05/2011 17:25, Marc Lavallée wrote:
I have a naive question for experts: would it be possible to recreate
the acoustics of the Philips Pavillon using room simulation techniques
and ambisonics spatialization?
That is what they/we did for the Virtual Electronic Poem Project:
On 05/01/2011 01:15 PM, Richard Dobson wrote:
The issue for me is no so much the encoding (though asking content
providers, a.k.a. composers, to supply even a 9-channel file is IMO
pushing it), but the decoding, where the number of speakers required
seems to have its own version of Moore's
On 05/01/2011 04:32 AM, Stefan Schreiber wrote:
P.S.: Speaking of B format recordings, there are the well-known issues
of sound quality. SNR? High frequencies?
b-format != soundfield microphone
the soundfield does have a more pronounced hf roll-off and gerneral
oddity coefficient than, say, a
Actually I don't have an iPhone myself - but it seems to be the
smartphone of choice for this kind of control app. ;-)
Also, I'm not fixated on Ubuntu, but merely I have used GlobalScale plug
computers in a couple of places where I wanted the equivalent of a
single board computer but with power
I believe I got most of the information I have from your site; indeed I
was delighted to find the instructions there as my AD10, bought on eBay,
came without instructions.
Gerard Lardner
On 01/05/2011 19:18, Martin Leese wrote:
Gerard Lardner glard...@iol.ie
...
I read in a review that the
On Sun, May 01, 2011 at 09:39:55PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
paul's first order recordings are lovely, but kind of easy on the
format, since they have a frontal soundstage for the most part, which
you tune in to, and simply disbelieve any spuriousness from the rear.
but take the funky
On Sun, May 01, 2011 at 05:25:40PM +0100, Richard Dobson wrote:
...
Short of making the test, we will never know if the Ambisonic approach
would have been better. The concert would be perfectly well described
in the above terms of being completely worked out in terms of using an
On 01/05/2011 20:29, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
..
the point is: if you want to produce in tenth order and have the means
to do it, your customer can still enjoy it on his/her 2nd order rig.
Fine. I agree. But what exactly is a '2nd order rig'? Some number of
speakers, or the combination of
Sun, 01 May 2011 20:17:32 +0100,
Richard Dobson richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote :
On 01/05/2011 17:25, Marc Lavallée wrote:
I have a naive question for experts: would it be possible to
recreate the acoustics of the Philips Pavillon using room
simulation techniques and ambisonics
Sun, 01 May 2011 21:11:48 +0100,
Gerard Lardner glard...@iol.ie wrote :
Actually I don't have an iPhone myself - but it seems to be the
smartphone of choice for this kind of control app. ;-)
Also, I'm not fixated on Ubuntu, but merely I have used GlobalScale
plug computers in a couple of
John Leonard wrote:
Some years ago I asked a question about how many list-members actually had
correctly set up surround systems of any sort at home; not in the studio, or
research facility, but in their own homes as a way of enjoying music. I seem to
remember that very few - three, if I
Re John L's remarks
I am not sure this is relevant to the interests of most
people on this list as such, but I do think it is absolutely
true that few people have a functioning proper surround set up.
As a High End audio reviewer, I know lots of consumers who
are interested in sound.
Martin Leese wrote:
Stefan Schreiber st...@mail.telepac.pt wrote:
...
I have argued to introduce some common file format for 3D audio, for
example Ambisonics up to third order.
This standard could be based on the already existing FMH-Format.
Now, I am supposedly one of the snobs... But FMH
On 05/02/2011 12:27 AM, Richard Dobson wrote:
On 01/05/2011 22:22, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
..
But as the sound engineer who's expected to provide a solution I'm
not in a position to argue about this. And from the same perspective
there is another point to consider. What if you have not just a
On 05/02/2011 12:09 AM, Richard Dobson wrote:
On 01/05/2011 20:29, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
..
the point is: if you want to produce in tenth order and have the means
to do it, your customer can still enjoy it on his/her 2nd order rig.
Fine. I agree. But what exactly is a '2nd order rig'?
On 04/30/2011 02:12 AM, Ronald C.F. Antony wrote:
On 29 Apr 2011, at 19:15, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
but you are right, we are still heavily in the DIY + slightly
kludgy realm. then again, most ambisonics fans will be, too. have
to :)
That's large part of the problem of lack of adoption.
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:57:53 +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
On 04/29/2011 02:30 PM, Michael Graves wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:28:06 +0300, Eero Aro wrote:
Hi All
A Minim AD7 Ambisonic decoder seems to be for sale on a
Finnish discussion forum:
if it cost very little (the hardware should not be more than
200 usd)
umashankar
i have published my poems. read (or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar
From: mgra...@mstvp.com
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 09:05:16 -0500
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale
On 30/04/2011 01:12, Ronald C.F. Antony wrote:
On 29 Apr 2011, at 19:15, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
..
I sometimes wish these people could be locked away in a closet and
released only after 1st order Ambisonics is sufficiently accepted by
the audio community at large and the consumer electronics
Richard wrote:
Hmmm, out of interest, how many more should there be.
I am definitely not the right person to answer to that, but:
UHJ decoders with better directional resolution used to have
four 10-pole phase shifters. The three AD7 shifters are eight pole
(if I remember right, would need to
Hmmm, thanks for that. I was thinking of doing a software decoder. I've been
using Audiomulch and the UHJ impulses up till now, but have been having phase
issues with the final audio (which by he way the hardware decoders suffer from
as well)
Just thought it would be interesting to do a
Richard zoanne...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
I think Eero wrote:
The AD-7 was designed to use a small number of components,
it has just three phase shifters. The AD-7 is not a precision
reference decoder, but at least for me, it did it's job for music
listening.
Hmmm, out of interest, how
Many thanks for that priceless info, shame the paper isn't available
:
This is described in MAG's 1985 JAES article;
look at Appendix A3.1.2 Simplified UHJ
decoding equations using three phase shifters,
and particularly at Fig 13. The unsimplified
block diagram in Fig. 14 uses four
LSat, 30 Apr 2011 21:39:56 +0100,
Richard zoanne...@yahoo.co.uk wrote :
Many thanks for that priceless info, shame the paper isn't available
Here it is (for a fee):
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=4419
:
This is described in MAG's 1985 JAES article;
look at Appendix A3.1.2
Seems you need to be a member
LSat, 30 Apr 2011 21:39:56 +0100,
Richard zoanne...@yahoo.co.uk wrote :
Many thanks for that priceless info, shame the paper isn't available
Here it is (for a fee):
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=4419
:
This is described in MAG's
Gerard Lardner wrote:
Perhaps something on the lines of a PlugComputer running Plug Ubuntu, a
USB sound card, Linux software packaged for simple use and having a web
control interface, and an iPhone app to control it all? The hardware
(PlugComputer and sound card) then could be $200, I think
Fons Adriaensen wrote:
Or snobs as the OP called them. And yes, I'd agree that the battle to
get 1st order into the consumer world has been lost. It was lost at
least ten years ago. I'm not going to sit in a corner and make myself
unhappy because of that.
Ciao,
However, there are now some
Richard Dobson wrote:
Should that be a surprise ? If as a composer you are used to just
placing a speaker in the right place when you want a particular
sound to come from a certain direction in a concert, would you be
impressed by the performance of first order Ambisonics ?
Yes! I still am.
-0400
From: m...@hacklava.net
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale
Sun, 01 May 2011 01:44:38 +0100,
Stefan Schreiber st...@mail.telepac.pt wrote :
Gerard Lardner wrote:
Perhaps something on the lines of a PlugComputer running Plug
Ubuntu
Marc Lavallée wrote:
An appropriate discussion could be about how to scale the quality of the
experience from stereo to first-order ambisonics with four speakers up
to eight and more, in the same room. Installing a good surround system
is not very different from installing a good-enough stereo
@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale
Richard Dobson wrote:
Should that be a surprise ? If as a composer you are used to just
placing a speaker in the right place when you want a particular
sound to come from a certain direction in a concert, would you be
impressed
do NOT consider a DAW like Reaper, Ardour such a player.
- Bo-Erik
-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On
Behalf Of Jörn Nettingsmeier
Sent: den 29 april 2011 14:58
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7
Michael Graves wrote:
Could any one comment on the utility of this device?
Well, I sold mine away years ago, because I have several
other decoders. The AD7 is a basic domestic UHJ and
B-format decoder into four loudspeakers. The aspect ratio
switch has three steps, wide, 1:1 and narrow. The
On 04/29/2011 03:30 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
We still have to see a complete software package for convinient playback of
music in uhj or amb format.
A player that support playlist and is able to play 2 and 4 channel uhj or amb
files transparently,
And also is supporting/integrating a
On 29 Apr 2011, at 19:15, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
but you are right, we are still heavily in the DIY + slightly kludgy
realm. then again, most ambisonics fans will be, too. have to :)
That's large part of the problem of lack of adoption. And a lot of that is to
blame on the Ambisonics fans
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