Re: [biofuel] vitrious encapsulated spent nuculer fuel pellets

2004-02-23 Thread doug
x-charset ISO-8859-1I think if you had those balls you would be related to Frank Zapper! D (very TIC: apologies to Mr Zapper) On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:12 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi am working on a new house and would like to make it as energy efficient as possible. I heard, a few years

[biofuel] Apology

2004-02-23 Thread esbuck
There was a message, (biofuel) The Emperor's New Climate: Is Global Warming Real? I read a statement I disagreed with, so I highlighted the statement and hit reply. My software automatically copied the highlighted portion and added attribution to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course, the software did

Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread Lillie Bennett
x-charset ISO-8859-1Ok I don't know about it. If I knew what you knew, what should I do? Lillie - Original Message - From: jkolling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top

Re: [biofuel] GMO'S Was: Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread Lillie Bennett
x-charset ISO-8859-1Oh, I see, I thought the seeds could be purchased just like any other seeds. Lillie - Original Message - From: Curtis Sakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 12:26 PM Subject: [biofuel] GMO'S Was: Bush administration

[biofuel] vitrious encapsulated spent nuculer fuel pellets

2004-02-23 Thread dcande01
Hi am working on a new house and would like to make it as energy efficient as possible. I heard, a few years back that the Swedes were dealing with their spent fuel problem by putting the pellets in leadded glass balls about the size of baseballs. These balls then maintain a temp of 105 F

Re: [biofuel] Lead and asbestos

2004-02-23 Thread DokDream
In a message dated 2/22/04 1:42:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Try Libby Montana http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/asbestos/asbestos_study.html A mortality review http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/asbestos/mortality_in_libby.html, which compared death rates for residents of the

Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread Appal Energy
x-charset ISO-8859-1Lillie, This kind of argument always tickles me. Shift the blame, even if ever so slightly and all responsibility can be thrown out the window. Excellent article it was good to revisit it; understanding is a very good thing. Blaiming it on global warming though is still

Re: [biofuel] Lead and asbestos

2004-02-23 Thread Qwarla
Jay, It appears to me that your report is somwhat out of date. I refur to the following:- snip Its carcinogenic nature, an overall lack of knowledge of minimum safe exposure levels, its widespread use for more than 100 years, and the long latency for the development of lung cancer and

[biofuel] Question About How The Oil Industry Calculates the Average Retail Price Of A Gallon Of Gasoline

2004-02-23 Thread murdoch
I posed this question to a Consumer Activist who works in the area of gasoline pricing, and their response so far is that No the Oil Industry cannot be trusted generally. I don't know anything to say that they're calculating or stating the average price wrongly or unfairly. In fact, I've always

[biofuel] GMOs are Bad Bad Bad

2004-02-23 Thread Lillie Bennett
x-charset ISO-8859-1I'm converted. Thank you Keith for putting all those links together. I'm enlightened but now so depressed :-( Lillie - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:07 PM Subject: Re:

Re: [biofuel] America has gone super-sized

2004-02-23 Thread Dave Williams
robert luis rabello wrote: Classism is a philosophy that pits the alleged superiority of one group against another, by virtue of the higher social or economic standing enjoyed by the first group. So you're describing the default state of all human societies as far back as we have

Re: [biofuel] Small biodiesel processors

2004-02-23 Thread Rick Lubrick
x-charset ISO-8859-1Will this include a canola seed press as well Ed? - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Small biodiesel processors We hope to be adding a small

Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread Dave Williams
Appal Energy wrote: History doesn't show that the Sun did it (is doing it) as we speak. History does show that the Earth's temp is rising Twenty-odd years ago, they were telling us, with all authority, that a new ice age was coming, and we should either move south, build big underground

Re: [biofuel] Don't any of you play poker? / was Moral Dilemna

2004-02-23 Thread Walt Patrick
At 06:37 PM 2/22/04 -0600, you wrote: Walt, The problem that I have with you analogies is that they do not include the UN. They had involvement. They were dealing with the situation. I have no doubt that the UN would have taken decisive action, just as soon as they got around to

Re: [biofuel] Lead and asbestos

2004-02-23 Thread DokDream
In a message dated 2/22/04 7:29:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jay, It appears to me that your report is somwhat out of date. I refur to the following:- snip Its carcinogenic nature, an overall lack of knowledge of minimum safe exposure levels, its

Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread jkolling
Learn, experiment, be independent (kind of a big keyword there), extrapolate, try to be unbiased and open, and then go learn some more. and this in no particular order Lillie Bennett wrote: Ok I don't know about it. If I knew what you knew, what should I do? Lillie - Original Message

Re: [biofuel] Small biodiesel processors

2004-02-23 Thread Neoteric Biofuels Inc
It could. On Sunday, February 22, 2004, at 06:05 PM, Rick Lubrick wrote: Will this include a canola seed press as well Ed? - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel]

Re: [biofuel] vitrious encapsulated spent nuculer fuel pellets

2004-02-23 Thread Wynn
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi ... I heard, a few years back that the Swedes were dealing with their spent fuel problem by putting the pellets in leadded glass balls about the size of baseballs. These balls then maintain a temp of 105 F for 100,000 years. This seems like it would make an

The Mantra of Acceptable Risk is Unadulterated Pig Flop was Re: [biofuel] Lead and asbestos

2004-02-23 Thread Appal Energy
x-charset ISO-8859-1 The whole question, though, is not about a mechanism but about risk, the degree of risk and the acceptance of risk. No Dok. The question revolves around both, as well as the medium(s). Take away the medium and there is no need to dwell on the mechanism, nor the degree, nor

Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread Appal Energy
x-charset ISO-8859-1Tomorrow's a school day laddy. You parents should have tucked you in hours ago. And whatever it is that you're trying to exhibit? How about saving it for show and tell? No doubt such foolishness would be much better received there. - Original Message - From: Dave

a problem. was Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data topscientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread jkolling
I wanted to add something: 1. you can't know what i know, because you haven't spent TIME with what i have, and you haven't read what i've read, seen what i've seen, and so it goes on. Now imagine that you were genetically enhanced, and i was not, you you thought exactly the same as you do

Re: a problem. was Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging datatop scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread jkolling
and this alone will make me think that there must be simply better ways instead of the enourmously scary one that you envision, where, probably, really, 10% orso of all the people will be fine with everything, but 90%+ will be suffering (yes, even more than it is already now, so if you want to

Re: [biofuel] Worms?? Was: Bush administration fudging datatop scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread Hakan Falk
Lillie, You are not exposed to the greens, but you are communicating with a unique bunch of knowledgeable people. I do not think that anyone on this list are green activists, because most people on this list are expressing their own opinions from a strong base of knowledge and experiences.

Re: [biofuel] GMOs are Bad Bad Bad

2004-02-23 Thread Hakan Falk
Lillie, GM is not a bad science and it will give the humanity many valuable contributions. The thing is that nearly all important knowledge have positive and negative applications. The commercial and monopolistic applications and utilizations that corporations like Monsant represent, is

Re: [biofuel] Don't any of you play poker? / was Moral Dilemna

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
At 06:37 PM 2/22/04 -0600, you wrote: Walt, The problem that I have with you analogies is that they do not include the UN. They had involvement. They were dealing with the situation. I have no doubt that the UN would have taken decisive action, just as soon as they got around to

Re: [biofuel] Don't any of you play poker? / was Moral Dilemna

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
x-charset ISO-8859-1At 06:37 PM 2/22/04 -0600, you wrote: Walt, The problem that I have with you analogies is that they do not include the UN. They had involvement. They were dealing with the situation. I have no doubt that the UN would have taken decisive action, just as soon as

Re: [biofuel] Don't any of you play poker? / was Moral Dilemna

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
At 06:37 PM 2/22/04 -0600, you wrote: Walt, The problem that I have with you analogies is that they do not include the UN. They had involvement. They were dealing with the situation. I have no doubt that the UN would have taken decisive action, just as soon as they got around to

Re: [biofuel] Don't any of you play poker? / was Moral Dilemna

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
x-charset ISO-8859-1At 06:37 PM 2/22/04 -0600, you wrote: Walt, The problem that I have with you analogies is that they do not include the UN. They had involvement. They were dealing with the situation. I have no doubt that the UN would have taken decisive action, just as soon as

Re: [biofuel] Don't any of you play poker? / was Moral Dilemna

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
x-charset ISO-8859-1At 06:37 PM 2/22/04 -0600, you wrote: Walt, The problem that I have with you analogies is that they do not include the UN. They had involvement. They were dealing with the situation. I have no doubt that the UN would have taken decisive action, just as soon as

Re: [biofuel] Don't any of you play poker? / was Moral Dilemna

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
At 06:37 PM 2/22/04 -0600, you wrote: Walt, The problem that I have with you analogies is that they do not include the UN. They had involvement. They were dealing with the situation. I have no doubt that the UN would have taken decisive action, just as soon as they got around to

Re: [biofuel] Don't any of you play poker? / was Moral Dilemna

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
x-charset ISO-8859-1At 06:37 PM 2/22/04 -0600, you wrote: Walt, The problem that I have with you analogies is that they do not include the UN. They had involvement. They were dealing with the situation. I have no doubt that the UN would have taken decisive action, just as soon as

Re: [biofuel] GMOs are Bad Bad Bad

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
x-charset ISO-8859-1I'm converted. Thank you Keith for putting all those links together. You're welcome - it wasn't putting them together that took a little time, it was paring down the embarrassment of riches (?) to that sized chunk. What I didn't say, though I've said it before here a few

Re: [biofuel] vitrious encapsulated spent nuculer fuel pellets

2004-02-23 Thread Hakan Falk
Wynn, You are right, it is a part of the containment techniques, so it does not leak at final disposal sites. It is not the things that you want to continue to use. Maybe it can be done in the future, we do not know. At the moment, you do not want those balls. Sweden did however develop

[biofuel] List Trailer Question

2004-02-23 Thread noisydogs
Is it against the law to TRIM THE TRAILERS off of messages posted to this list, or is it important to have 5 trailers on each message? They appear to be a waste of bandwidth and email box space. Julie Minnesota On Digest Biofuel at Journey to Forever:

[biofuel] Weapons of Mass Deception

2004-02-23 Thread mcgeough65
x-charset ISO-8859-1Thanks to Keith Addison for posting a number of examples of pre-war crapaganda, and the debunking thereof. I can see poker playin' Walt turning over command to his co-pilot, puttin' on his Stetson, stridin' past the bombadier to the hatch area, climbin' aboard the nuke

Re: [biofuel] Weapons of Mass Deception

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
mcgeough65 wrote: Thanks to Keith Addison for posting a number of examples of pre-war crapaganda, and the debunking thereof. I can see poker playin' Walt turning over command to his co-pilot, puttin' on his Stetson, stridin' past the bombadier to the hatch area, climbin' aboard the nuke and

Re: [biofuel] Lead and asbestos

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
DokDream wrote: The whole question, though, is not about a mechanism but about risk, the degree of risk and the acceptance of risk. -- Jay Uh-huh... But Qwarla said As for the save level of exposure. there isn't any. Meaning the safe level of exposure is ZERO. Risk assessment plus the

Re: [biofuel] List Trailer Question

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
Is it against the law to TRIM THE TRAILERS off of messages posted to this list, or is it important to have 5 trailers on each message? They appear to be a waste of bandwidth and email box space. Julie Minnesota On Digest I do post a reminder about it now and again, but - why didn't you?? 5kb

Re: [biofuel] Lead and asbestos

2004-02-23 Thread bob allen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try Libby Montana http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/asbestos/asbestos_study.html A mortality review http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/asbestos/mortality_in_libby.html, which No. In any -- repeat ANY -- of the studies on lung diseases where asbestos is being implicated,

Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread bob allen
x-charset ISO-8859-1Dave Williams wrote: Twenty-odd years ago, they were telling us, with all authority, that a new ice age was coming, and we should either move south, build big underground bunkers, or both. Now it's the exact opposite. I feel like a character in 1984... You are

Re: [biofuel] vitrious encapsulated spent nuculer fuel pellets

2004-02-23 Thread bob allen
x-charset ISO-8859-1 Hi ... I heard, a few years back that the Swedes were dealing with their spent fuel problem by putting the pellets in leadded glass balls about the size of baseballs. These balls then maintain a temp of 105 F for 100,000 years. This seems like it would make an

RE: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...

2004-02-23 Thread Bryan Brah
As you point out Todd, I was the first to frame this discussion in the us-them democrat-republican thing, but it was merely an anticipatory post. Any time Dubya does something stupid, shortsighted, or reckless, which happens often enough, invariably the lamentation goes up that had he not stole

Re: [biofuel] Weapons of Mass Deception

2004-02-23 Thread Walt Patrick
At 12:53 PM 2/23/04 +, someone lacking the stones to even sign his post wrote: I can see poker playin' Walt turning over command to his co-pilot, puttin' on his Stetson, stridin' past the bombadier to the hatch area, climbin' aboard the nuke and gettin' ready for judgement day.

Re: [biofuel] Re: Make plans to shut O'Hare down long-term

2004-02-23 Thread Alan Petrillo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much simpler. Readjust the aircraft fuel controls to make a smokier exhaust. It'd take more than readjusting the aircraft fuel controls. You'd have to replace the fuel injectors with less efficient designs. But if you do that you have to worry about turbine inlet

The end of popular soverignty (was RE: [biofuel] RE: moral dilemma)

2004-02-23 Thread Bryan Brah
If you're mad about the results of the 2000 election, you should be outraged at this revelation. We haven't had control of our government for a very long time. In 1912 former republican president Teddy Roosevelt was coaxed out of retirement to run as a Bull Moose and spoil the election for the

Re: [biofuel] pagans

2004-02-23 Thread Alan Petrillo
Curtis Sakima wrote: But doesn't the Jew historic line lead up to modern CHRISTIANITY?? Sumerian War-God --- Jews -- Judeo-CHRISTIANS??? But, if you follow the history back to its source, God first revealed himself in the Sacred Flame to King Zoroaster, and Zoroastrianism is noted, IIRC,

Re: [biofuel] Re: Make plans to shut O'Hare down long-term

2004-02-23 Thread esbuck
In a message dated 2/23/2004 12:07:36 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps. But don't forget that the particulates in question are soot, which tends to absorb heat rather than reflecting it. That's the point. The soot absorbs heat that would otherwise reach the ground

[biofuel] CAFE Au Lait

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
http://www.gristmagazine.com/powers/powers022004.asp?source=daily CAFE Au Lait Bush plan to overhaul CAFE standards is a mixed bag by Amanda Griscom 20 Feb 2004 Clean up the bus, gus. Photo: NREL. The Bush administration has taken to singing the clean-car gospel lately, but it's not quite

[biofuel] Resurgence of Atkins Diet

2004-02-23 Thread murdoch
I wonder of the resurgence of this diet, as covered by the media quite often these days, will lead to any consequences for biofuelers, or in other areas. A greater amount of household waste grease that biofuelers locally could help folks rid themselves of? Im also hopeful it will lead to

[biofuel] Fwd: Biodiesel Consumers' Council Advocates a Locally-BasedBiodiesel Industry

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
Biodiesel Consumers' Council Advocates a Locally-Based Biodiesel Industry Northern California (February, 2004)-- The first California Biodiesel Consumers' Council (CBCC) conference was held January 31st and February 1st, 2004 at Pitzer College in Claremont, California. The conference was the

Re: [biofuel] Resurgence of Atkins Diet

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hi MM I wonder of the resurgence of this diet, as covered by the media quite often these days, will lead to any consequences for biofuelers, or in other areas. A greater amount of household waste grease that biofuelers locally could help folks rid themselves of? Im also

Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn

2004-02-23 Thread esbuck
In a message dated 2/23/2004 11:54:12 AM Central Standard Time , or the forthcoming ice age, or global warming... grants, endowments, and tenure mean they're going to find whatever they're paid to find, and now that's global warming. no, quite the contrary. Scientists in industry may be paid

Re: [biofuel] Bhopal

2004-02-23 Thread esbuck
In a message dated 2/23/2004 7:30:44 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: such as Union Carbide's metamorphosis into Dow Chemicals after its corporate terrorism in Bhopal (1984). As I understood it, there was terrorism, but not by Union Carbide. Someone sabotaged the plant.

Re: [biofuel] Re: America has gone super-sized

2004-02-23 Thread Keith Addison
Hi again Robert Keith Addison wrote: Hi Robert Was it him, or the other one? The other one I think - or did both of them do it? Sorry, it gets a bit blurred sometimes, seems to be such a stereotyped set of views, see one and you can guess all the others. Yes, it IS difficult to

Re: [biofuel] GMOs are Bad Bad Bad

2004-02-23 Thread esbuck
It is my understanding that most of the foods we eat are genetically modified, but the mods. were made millenia ago. Corn (maise) cannot reproduce without human help, since the kernels, seeds, stick to the cob. Obviously, corn is genetically different than wild maise. similarly with wheat.