Mikes, Zeke, Chip, Hakan et al;
Greetings -- thanx for the hope!
I'm trying to dope out a system to incorporate in a
geodesic-dome structure [utilizing thin-film PV in top
panels to capture sun-source as
heat-transfer/electrical-generation] also to
accelerate algae-production in a holding
E. Allen C. You wrote: "Specific to this thread: the cooling fluid acrossthe PV film doesn't need to be deep if the heat istransferred redirected (a radiator?) at a separatesite, right? Or am i off in left field?"Your right-on, E.You wrote: "A friend works in an aluminum-extrusion
Ah, the computer. Understood. How about food grade, Citation and Avatech White Mineral Oil (for example)?http://www.avatarcorp.com/products_list.php/inid/3/catid/89/org/indus/catn/White%20Mineral%20Oil/?source=google...although mineral oils might actually conduct electricity. I
Well it might work to have the cell immersed behind a glass or fused
silica window yes! I notice with veggie oil and even moreso with BD
that heating with an immersion heater is much more prone to boiling on
the heater surface with BD and oil which leads me to believe that the
specific heat
on high temp applications.
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Silicon is quite fragile especially the thin polysilicon material used
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
What does extreme mean?
The way I see it, there is probably less materials (no special methods for
interfacing PV panel and cooling). I visualize the PV panels in a clear, oil
tight enclosure with an inlet, outlet, a length of tubing, heat
Hakan Falk wrote:
Mike,
Many of the high voltage transformers in
electricity distribution are filled with oil for
insulation and cooling purposes.
In this case I
belive it is mineral oils, but it is many years
(40) since I worked with this and do not completely trust my memory.
They
Who says that the PV cells have to be immersed in the oil?If the modules were in the glass box and standing (more or less) upright, the oil coolant could simply be cascaded over the modules. Even if the oil hadrelatively highphotoabsorption compared to water (for example), there would only be
, May 15, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Silicon is quite fragile especially the thin polysilicon material used
in cells. You are right but any water pressure would break the cells.
You need to bond them onto a heat conducting back plate like copper
It's been about 4 years for me, and yes, bio-based
oils were/are being tested/used by the larger
utilities. A quick google on bio-based transformer
oil will bring a bunch of hits.
Hakan Falk wrote:
Mike,
Many of the high voltage transformers in
electricity distribution are filled with oil
This sounds better. For one, you don't have a pressurized flat plate,
which would be hard to engineer compared to a tube -- imagine the
pressure on a 3 x 5 foot piece of glass with pressurized fluid behind
it. Not that a large flat box with pressurized fluid in it would have
to be at very high
Yes!!
That's a great observation Zeke! Quite literally, it would be a
self-cleaning solar collector. Filtration at the pump is something that
would be an appropriate piece of hardware anyway.
We should all keep this on the back burner until one or some of us have
the resources to conspire on
Great idea. I'm a fan of more public domain stuff.
If it were a cascade of liquid going over the surface, how about using
water instead of veggie oil? You'd get a little evaporation (at least
in dry climates) which would cool it off, but better heat transfer,
and less energy to pump it? It
12, 2006 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50
times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was
asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
This is exactly what I did my master's thesis on. The concept works
pretty well from a theoretical perspective. I was just investigating
using water cooling for non-concrentrating PV, but it would work even
better for concentrating PV. You shouldn't really have to deal
This is basically what I did. kludging would be the word for it, as
about once a week it would have a catestrophic leak and I'd have to
rebuild it. Worked okay to get research data, but obviuosly not long
term I found that preheating water for domestic hot water (which
could have final
, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Silicon is quite fragile especially the thin polysilicon material used
in cells. You are right but any water pressure would break the cells.
You need to bond them onto a heat conducting back plate like copper or
aluminum
, May 15, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Silicon is quite fragile especially the thin polysilicon material used
in cells. You are right but any water pressure would break the cells.
You need to bond them onto a heat conducting back plate like copper
As we all know, there are a lot of ways to harvest waste heat but the one that stands out in my mind is from a message postedabout six months ago. I don't know if this is a solution, but I'm definitely curious to know one way or the
that's just a touchbit extreme...
- Original Message -
From: Michael Redler
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
As we all know, there are a lot of ways to harvest waste heat but the one
that stands
: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Google Richard Komp. His book is called something like practical
photovoltaics. In the back of it, he's got a design for a
concentrating PV/thermal collectors. I haven't looked at it for a
while, but if I recall, he soldered a copper plate to a copper
-
From: Michael Redler
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
As we all know, there are a lot of ways to harvest waste heat but the one
that stands out in my mind is from a message posted about six months
What does extreme mean?The way I see it, there is probably less materials (no special methods for interfacing PV panel and cooling). I visualize the PV panels in a clear, oil tight enclosure with an inlet, outlet, a length of tubing, heat exchanger (radiator)and circulating pump. As far as
Zeke,Why are you concentrating on emerging technologyfor purchase when the purpose of thisforum encourages the opposite? This is especially true when the discussion is about technology which is accessible to most people (at least most people on this list).Fill a glass box with PV and clear
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
As we all know, there are a lot of ways to harvest waste heat but the one
that stands out in my mind is from a message posted about six months ago. I
don't know if this is a solution
;logan vilas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <BIOFUEL@SUSTAINABLELISTS.ORG> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:54 PM Subject: Re:
[Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50 times the mirror space then collector spa
PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Zeke,
Thermal solar panels can reach surface temperatures around 400
degree Celsius, but with pump or thermal driven circulation the water
temperatures
it off a 7 meter dish I can
get
those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it.
Logan Vilas
- Original Message -
From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
. the problem is finding a sealing substance that wont melt or
burn under these 1200*F temperatures.
- Original Message -
From: logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
I am
: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50
times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was
asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel
at
the focal
combust.
Logan Vilas
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 5:30 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
This is exactly what I did my master's thesis
hi Logan. PVmodules and solar concentrators are two different technologies and unfortunately, their individual energy capture principle is contradicting to each other. consequently, they can not be used at same application. PV modules need to absorb all the solar radiation so as to generate
Actually mirrors can be used to concentrate the light from a large area
onto a small high efficiency solar cell. It is being done. This is one
of the justifications for the cost of high efficiency cells but the
extra cost of the concentrators and the lengths one has to go to to keep
from
Most of the highest efficiency PV cells do use concentrators. These
are the 35% efficient super exotic ones that NREL and others are
working on. Compared to 20% which is about the highest commercial
single sun efficiency right now. In general the power produced by a
PV cell is linearly related
Concentrators (heliostats) use tracking technology. The only difference is the half angle mechanism usedin concentrators to reflect the light instead of keeping a surface normal to the Sun's rays.Once tracking technology becomes cost competitivewhen compared to simply adding more PV modules
Yes, you get get 30% more power from the same PV modules, but the
space requirements for a tracker can actually be higher than for 30%
more fixed PV. Fixed PV can be mounted on a building, often on a
existing surface, thus essentially not taking up any room. A tracker
(at least the current
Hi Zeke,Although "the space requirements for a tracker can actually be higher than30%more", it doesn't have to be.The "current versions" certainly do not need to be on a large pole (http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1487858.htm).With all due respect, you're comments
By now, you may have noticed my resistance to "conventional wisdom" whenever someone gives negative feedback about a particular energy scheme. Here is an example.The idea of concentrating light onto PV cells is a relatively new idea in some circles. What to do about waste heat is a natural
I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and
fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The
reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is what is
commercially sold right now (at least in the US, europe is ahead of us
in many areas).
dish I can get
those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it.
Logan Vilas
- Original Message -
From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
I am speaking mostly from
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and
fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The
reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because
On May 12, 2006, at 1:59 PM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:.. the biggest reason I see for failed systems islack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but alsoanything that moves).I've got my well pump on three 50W modules, fixed.It's totally maintenance-free. I don't think I'll usetrackers for the main
Would a standard PV module produce more when used with a Solar Concentrator
or does it require a special PV module?
Logan Vilas
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